Firearms Training, Self Defense & Franchising with Wes Fox

Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of Franchise Euphoria. Josh Brown here. And as a franchise lawyer, I get to spend my days helping people with their franchise legal needs. But on this show I get to talk with people in and around the franchise world and learn from their perspective and their experiences and also share some of my own, uh, enjoyment.

Speaker B: Foreign. Welcome back to Franchise Euphoria. Thrilled to have on Wes Fox here. How you doing, Wes?

Speaker C: Hey, doing, doing great, Josh, thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker B: So you're the founder and chief, uh, tactical instructor at United Defense Tactical, which, let me just say this, I've done this podcast since 2013, over 10 years. I'm not sure I've ever had on anybody else with this kind of a franchise system. So I'm really excited to talk to you. I love your background. Um, you're, I think a former private military contractor. You, you bring a whole lot of experience to this, but I don't want to butcher your history. Why don't you tell, tell me your background and how you got into all this?

Speaker C: Yeah, no, I'd be happy to. And yeah, this is, this is definitely a unique, first of its kind concept. So that's, that's why you haven't heard of it until we, we, we brought this, uh, you know, brought this, uh, uh, to market. Uh, so yeah, my background is in executive protection, self defense combatives. Uh, uh, I've trained in private military contracting, been a firearms instructor for, for a long time. And really where the idea for this came from, Josh, is about 16 years ago and um, you know, doing you know, a lot of executive protection at that time and realize that the training that everyone does to learn how to uh, defend yourself with a firearm in a real situation or to even make that decision if you should use a firearm in that situation, uh, it's just very, it's very unrealistic. And have, uh, you, have you shot guns before? Have you been to a range?

Speaker B: Yeah, I wouldn't say I've done, I wouldn't say that I go all the time. I've been to a range a few times and I've done the um. What, the skeet shooting that you do.

Speaker C: Sure, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Great. So you've been to a range, so you kind of know how that is. So typically how people learn. And it's really the same across the board, whether they're civilians, law enforcement, military, you know, maybe with the exception of, you know, special forces or special operations forces. It's very static training. So you're at a range, um, you may have an instructor teaching you. It may be a friend or a family member that's teaching you. And it's in no way commensurate, uh, with the real situation. So you're in a lane, you've got a piece of paper that's downrange. There's zero threat. You don't feel like there's a threat. There's no communication, uh, there's no de escalation. There's no kind of people around or behind you or family members with you. And so it doesn't allow you to really process a situation as being real. And so people are in that static environment, sending, basically punching holes in a piece of paper under no pressure, with all the time in the world. And they might be accurate, they may not be accurate, but what happens when you take those people with that kind of training and put them in a real life and death situation where they've got. There's a threat, whether there's a weapon involved or not, there's a threat. They're not prepared because they've never done it. And so one of the kind of credos we have around here is you can't do something you haven't trained to do. And that's, you know, that's very true. You know, I can't. I can't show you, you know, a video of a UFC fighter, you know, destroying an opponent and doing very well in a fight. And I say, okay, Josh, okay. You saw the video, right? Okay, cool. That's your static training now. You're going to be in the UFC this weekend fighting. You know, if you're not a fighter and you haven't done that training and been through those things, you literally can't perform in that.

Speaker B: So it kind of was built on this idea that, you know, people go, they train on guns, they train and. But. But they're sitting there and they're shooting a piece of paper. And the reality is, when, God forbid, if you, if you ever have to be in that situation, there's a whole lot of things that happen that aren't being replicated in that scenario. Right?

Speaker C: Absolutely. And it's, uh, it's really the biggest disconnect that I've ever seen in any industry. Because if you're going to, uh. Well, if you're going to be a lawyer, you go to law school, then you intern with a firm, and you learn how to become, you know, you learn how to become an attorney. Right? And so you actually get the training and the experience to be able to, you know, to, you Know, represent clients on your own or be part of a firm. And in the firearms industry, there's, there's almost no, there's almost no training at all. People are able to get a concealed carry permit, you know, by taking a two day class where in that class they're, they're sharing information with you, but it's really about just to get your permit. In no way are they actually training you to be in a real situation. We train our students. You know, the last thing that we want to do is draw a weapon and use a weapon. That's, that's for, you know, your life's in imminent and immediate danger. There's no other options. But in, in reality, you have to be able to put yourself in a place where you potentially see a threat. You try to situational awareness, try to avoid putting yourself in a bad situation to begin with. Uh, being aware of your surroundings, kind of having an exit plan. Where do you park, do you leave your car on when you're sitting in it or not? What if somebody broke in your home? Do you have a home defense plan? And so without all those things, people tend to, uh, you know, fail at a pretty high, you know, level because they haven't, they haven't been through it. And it's also something you have to continue to train to be proficient. So we call it reality based threat training. And that's the program that we've developed to really put people in a, hey, how do you think, how do you stay calm? Uh, how do you put yourself in the best position? How do you communicate, even communicating, just maybe taking down a situation, uh, to where it doesn't escalate. You know, that takes training and that takes skill.

Speaker B: How long ago did you start this

Speaker C: with the, uh, the idea was, like I said, it was about 16 years ago. I didn't start it. At that time I had a big security company, executive protection company.

Speaker B: And when you say executive protection, you know, you're talking about, you're protecting people who have hired you to protect them. Whether it's, you know, celebrities or CEOs or what. I mean, I don't know what it would be, but that's probably right in that realm.

Speaker C: That's absolutely correct. So sometimes it might be one person, sometimes it might be a team of five. Uh, we had one client that we needed, a team of 15, you know, it was multiple vehicles, etc. Right. Somebody, ah, a royal, a royal type person from a different country. So it's um, you know, so yeah, the executive protection and, and you know, but even in that realm, it's just there really wasn't, you know, outside of the initial training that you would do to become, you know, an executive protection, you know, specialist or close protection, you know, specialist, depending on, you know, where you're at. Uh, it doesn't, the training just doesn't prepare you. There's almost no training.

Speaker B: So I mean we glossed over this a little bit. I'm just curious. I think it's always because the line of work you're in is unique. There's not that many people as a percentage who do it. Um, there. How did you get, how did you, did you grow up wanting to do this? Did you like, how did you get in? How did you fall into this field?

Speaker C: Sure, yeah, I've always been into combatives, martial arts. I'm an instructor in a number of different systems and looking at some law enforcement systems like racy, survival tactics, etc. And so I've always kind of been in, involved in that and in shooting. Um, and you know, I built a few, you know, companies along the way, but kind of got into, you know, more the executive protection and the pmc, you know, type work and then built a, you know, very large security company and uh, sold that uh, almost two years ago, uh, maybe almost two and a half years ago actually. And so this project I started um, about five and a half years ago is when we kind of launched it. So was still doing a lot before that, a lot of training to civilians, law enforcement, etc. Uh, of live fire trainings but then was able to actually put together a facility. And in our, in our facilities we have the ability to do very uh, immersive reality based training. And we start at the, at the fundamentals because we've got people coming in from all different backgrounds. Uh, and some of the people we have coming in, you know, now have never, have never shot a gun. You know, after Covid it, you know, we grew 76% during 2020.

Speaker B: I can only imagine it woke everyone

Speaker C: up and they're like, man, I got to get a gun, I got to get training. You know, all the people that kind of voted for some of the crazy, crazy, uh, California anti gun laws, you know, all of a sudden want to, you know, we've got a lot of those people that are coming in but we, we use simulators to put people in very uh, realistic scenarios safely with, you know, being able to use a uh, weapon system that has an infrared laser and it puts you in a very high pressure situation and you have to make Decisions. So using a firearm is not just about drawing a weapon and firing it accurately. It's about, you know, that again, that's the last thing we want to have happen, right? So we want to be able to avoid the situation, de, escalate, escape, you know, defenders.

Speaker B: Is this a, is this like a, uh, for the, for the system itself, for the business, Is it like a membership type program where you come in, okay, absolutely.

Speaker C: And you know, so if you're going to have, if you're, if you wanted to be able to defend yourself or if you're going to have a gun and you may use that for self defense if somebody breaks in your home or you have a concealed carry permit, et cetera. You know, you really need, you need this training and you need this training ongoing. It's just like going to the gym. You know, you can't go to the gym one time and go, okay, man, I had a great workout, I'm buff. Never have to go back to the gym again. Um, I'm done. You know, you really have.

Speaker B: It doesn't work that way, Wes.

Speaker C: I thought it worked that way, man. It would be, it'd be fantastic. I'd be the first to sign up for that program. But you know, you got to put it, it's, it's a perishable skill, right? So you know, it's, you know, it's, it's a little bit of training frequently is what makes somebody really good at anything. And, and we certainly commend, you know, anyone that's getting some firearms training. But pretty much what's out there, it's, it's not only static, but it's a class, it's an hour, it's two hours, it's a half a day, it's a day. Maybe it's a two day class. You know, uh, most people won't go to two day classes, but you know, they are out there. So you go to the class, which is great, and you're going to make some progress during the class. If you have a good instructor, obviously you're going to learn some weapon handling and some safety. But as far as, you know, using that one, there's no threat ever. So it's very unrealistic. There's no threat that you're dealing with. It's a piece of paper, it's a piece of steel. Furthermore, vet information and that training that you've gone through in a Saturday and Sunday, I could get you personally up to an incredibly high level over two days. Uh, where you're going to be Clearing rooms and bounding and transitioning from, you know, from rifle to pistol and back and you know, have you shooting from all types of positions on the move dynamically. But come Monday morning, you don't, you don't, you that's, you don't own that information. It's not in your body. It's in a pressure situation. Even on a non pressure situation, you're going to barely be able to recall it. And that diminishes very quickly. Um, um, so you really, you know, can't use it anyway. So again, the, the only way you can become proficient is small amounts of training frequently, whether it's firearms training, reality based training, tennis, I mean, race car driving, you know, whatever it might be, you know, and that's how you get good, you get it ingrained to where it becomes kind of a second nature.

Speaker B: So I mean, you're a professional and, and I certainly, you know, it's interesting because um, obviously this podcast, we don't talk about politics or anything like that and I don't want to talk about any of that. But I, I'm um, curious though. You're, you're a professional. Does it, you know, this is how I see guns, right. My, myself, right. Is like that. You know, they're, they're, they're necessary. You've got to protect yourself. Um, they serve a purpose. I think they're, you know, people who hunt or whatever. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's good, uh, entertainment and so forth. Um, but also it worries me that if you don't have the proper training with it and you're carrying it around and you sort of, you watched a YouTube video or whatever and now you think you're training me. That's the world you live in, right? I mean, that's the world you live in where you're kind of going, you are a trained professional. You know how these things should be used, how they shouldn't be used. Yet your market, right, your market here is expanding infinite infinitely.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Because more and more people are getting guns and, and, and it's a hot topic, obviously. I'm curious your thoughts on that, just in terms of the training, just in terms of the training or lack thereof or, you know, is that, is that of concern to you?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's one of the main reasons I started this is to really be able to train people at a realistic level where they could make good decisions, they could process that information, they not overreact, not be a victim. And we've got, you know, uh, dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of amazing success stories of real situations that happened to members that they were able to navigate or survive because of the training. But yeah, just, just because you have a right to have a gun doesn't mean you should. And by that I mean if you're not going to get training, why, why would I, why should you have a gun if you're not going to learn how to drive? Why would I want you to have a license if you're not going to learn how to fly a plane? Why do I want you to be my pilot? Just because you'd like to fly a plane. Right. So I think that there's a responsibility that comes with gun ownership, but it's also partially, you don't know what you don't know. So a lot of people think that the training, they get to get their concealed carry permit, which is basically non existent training, uh, is sufficient. Okay, now they're okay. Or they've been to the range a few times, or they've taken a few classes, or they learn how to shoot from their grandpa or whatever it might be and they think that they're, they're prepared. And that's, that's a big part of what we're doing, Josh, is educating people. So they don't necessarily know they need this sometimes until, you know, we're able to kind of demonstrate that they're not really prepared for a real situation. Because, uh, we have people, oh, I'm a gun expert, I've been shooting my whole life. And then we'll put them in a scenario and they realize, wow, I really, I really don't know what to do in a real situation. I really wasn't prepared. I was really stressed. I kind of froze up or I overreacted or I couldn't even articulate why I drew my gun or there were so many other choices I could have made. And that's why you have to be in the most realistic situation you possibly can. And so we do start with the very basics we teach people. Very high level shooting, pistol, rifle, et cetera. And then we build that program to where they're advancing more in a reality based uh, program is as far as they want to go. We have eight different levels that people can progress to. Uh, so there's, there is a progression.

Speaker B: Are they training with their own guns or do you provide, like how does that work?

Speaker C: Yeah, so, so we're providing the, the training weapons here, you know, at the facility. Uh, they're highly realistic weapons. But It's a safe environment for people to train in. And then there's a live fire component as well and a self defense component. Because even if you, you know, are really at expert level in dealing with a real reality based threat with your weapon, doesn't mean that you should draw that weapon, you know, it, you may it, or that you're going to get to that weapon if somebody attacks you initially and you weren't prepared, you know, for that, didn't see it coming, or they just close that distance so quickly you can't react in time. And now you might even be able to have to defend yourself to escape or even to get to your weapon system if, if it was a life and death situation and it warranted that.

Speaker B: Let's talk about the franchise model itself and how you came about to uh, franchising. Was it always your idea to franchise from the beginning?

Speaker C: Um, you know, I wanted to expand. So once, once we opened up the first location and just saw the overwhelming response that we got from everybody, law enforcement, uh, civilians that, that, that uh, you know, that did shoot, that wanted to, you know, be able to, to, to perform in high level situations and really, really hone that or people that have never picked up a gun, you know, before in their, in their entire life. So they were just, the response was so overwhelming. I mean we have, we have 1400 students, you know, members, student members just, just at the original location right now.

Speaker B: Where was it, where's the original location?

Speaker C: It's in Costa Mesa, It's Newport Beach, California. Costa Mesa, California. So we're kind of right on the, right on, right on the border there.

Speaker B: Nice. Okay. Um, well, and that makes sense. I mean it's interesting because. And then as you expand you turn it into a franchise, you know, is the opportunity that they come in and there's a physical location, there's these trainings, it's the software, it's the training that you're providing, the ongoing support, um, uh, for that. What type of franchisee are you looking for for this type of system?

Speaker C: Yeah, so the training is very comprehensive. We have a great training program. So there's kind of three different areas, kind of our member services, uh, which is kind of, you know, checking in people and you know, that process booking people, et cetera. Uh, we have our enrollment, uh, coaches which will meet with prospective members to see if this is a fit for them and kind of get them into an initial training. And if it's something that is a fit then you know, uh, you know, talk about, you know, packages we do background checks on any potential member. So there is a, a kind of a review and um, background check process to make sure that we're bringing in people that we should be training that are good, responsible civilians, uh, in law enforcement, etc. And then um, we also have our instructor side. So it's very comprehensive training. So we provide all that at a very high level. Uh, so that really for that franchisee, we're looking for somebody that has some experience running a business or managing people. You know, they, we need, we need somebody that can run the day to day operations of a business. And then there's such, such extensive uh, franchise support and training support. Initially when they're open, ongoing on a weekly basis, there's just a lot of great support in training. And we were, we were able to kind of move into the franchise space. I had some, had some students that were in um, that uh, were coming in that were really. It kind of built some of the biggest brands in franchising and they loved the model so much and they were, you know, they were fans because they were students and they loved to come here and train every week. And they basically approached me and said uh, are you thinking about expanding? I said yeah, yeah, we're thinking about expanding. We'd like to reach more people, train more people, have you know, massive impact on communities which, which we do. And they said, well, if you, if you ever want a franchise, we'd be happy to, to kind of consult with you for free because we just love what you're doing and we think is this is something great you're doing and it's amazing and kind of turn that into having one of the main guys, uh, come on board as a, as a, as a partner. And so we've been able to kind of build this dream team that did UFC Gym and Mayweather Boxing and XPT and, and uh, has done just a number of massive brands. And so we've just got an amazing team that's behind this that are real franchise experts in all areas.

Speaker B: And how many locations right now?

Speaker C: So we have eight. We have eight. Well, we have original location, eight franchises uh, that are, you know, in various stages open or various stages of open. And then we've got a number, uh, of more, you know, we're probably going to have, probably wore 25 or 30 additional franchises this year.

Speaker B: That's great. So how, how's, how's your role evolving with all that?

Speaker C: How's my role?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, your role evolving. I mean it's evolving as the franchise system Grows and.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And you, you bring on more of a team. And uh, is your idea to expand throughout the United States or is it more.

Speaker C: Absolutely, yes. Somewhere north of 200 locations is what we're, we're looking at doing. Um, we only started you know, kind of the middle of last year, so we've made tremendous progress. Like I said, we'll, you know, we'll probably be right around 35 or so by the end of this year. And so yeah, my role is just kind of more evolving into a lot more on the training side and helping franchisees uh, kind of develop their team. It's a great program. It's very simple to learn the, the. We have a item, uh, 19 that's coming out soon with our new FDD following, uh, filing. But I can tell you that the unit economics are just outstanding on this model. I haven't found another model. We haven't found another model that competes uh, with our unique.

Speaker B: And it's a membership subscription model.

Speaker C: It is, yeah, absolutely. So you have, members are signing up for one year, kind uh, of a one year commitment upfront because it is something you either are going to train and be prepared for a real situation when it occurs or not train. You shouldn't have a gun in my opinion. Uh, and you're potentially a victim.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So those are kind of the choices. But to, to train, you know, it, it doesn't mean you have to spend 20 hours a week training. It might be one or two hours a week, but it's an ongoing process to maintain those skills and to be able to, to not just, not just the mechanics of shooting but the being able to kind of control that, that fight or flight and be able to make good decisions, be able to communicate, be able to move, be able to protect, you know, family members, having a plan for, for different scenarios you're in a restaurant robber comes in or active shooter comes in, somebody breaks into your home, uh, somebody tries to attack you through your vehicle window, you know, whatever it might be or just you know, somebody kind of gets up in your face and is potentially you know, uh, a physical threat. So we teach our members how to, to deal with all those types of possibilities and encounters.

Speaker B: It's really, really fascinating Wes. It's a, it's an interesting model. A great, I mean it's, I can see where people would be very, very um, interested in learning that as a self defense mechanism. Because you see that as you said you have a background in um, in self defense, uh, beyond that, whether it's taekwondo, karate, I Mean you see those and as franchises and mechanisms for people to protect themselves. My father in law actually who passed away a couple years ago, he was a lawyer but he was also, he trained back in the 60s or 70s the Maryland Police department in um, jiu jitsu or some sort of self defense, sort of the non life threatening other alternatives of ways to defend yourself which I think is really, really, really important.

Speaker C: Everyone should learn some self defense. So we integrate that into the training as you progress and we have self defense classes that are standalone, uh, classes that, so people want to kind of take a deeper dive into the self defense. But we're, you know it's really important for everyone to have some level of self defense training uh because you need to be able to protect yourself. You might need to protect loved ones, you might be in a life and death situation, but you might have to defend yourself to even to you know, to be able to escape or to be able to defend yourself.

Speaker B: You know, where can, where can somebody, you know, get a hold of you, uh, or learn more about the system? I know they can go to United Defense tactical dot com. Is that the best place to go

Speaker C: to learn about that? Because that's going to give you a pretty good overview of our program. There is a franchise, you know, portion to the website and so if somebody's interested in learning more they can fill out that information and we're happy to spend time with them and kind of walk them through the process to see if it's a fit. Uh, because it really needs to be a fit on both sides. We have uh, certain types of candidates we're looking for and obviously anyone who wants to build a franchise business I think is going to be very interested in this. Uh, as long as they have a passion for helping people, want to make the communities better, want to help law enforcement as well. Because we do train, we do train law enforcement uh, in, in all kinds of different uh, tactics including self defense like you talked about with the Jiu Jitsu. It's a Gracie survival tactics program. And you know, so we're uh, you know that that's part of the training that, that we do. And so if they have a passion for, you know, for keeping people safe and really giving them the information they need to defend themselves. Because it's uh, I mean it was, it was a dangerous world before COVID but it's gotten significantly more dangerous. Uh, I mean we're talking about 55% increases in shootings. I mean it's, there's no city that's safe at this point, crime is through the roof break, ins are through the roof. Robberies, assaults, shootings, all at record numbers right now. Uh, and that's just a fact. We don't have to talk about the whys about it, but it's just a fact. So, uh, it's even more important. It's almost like a matter of when something's going to happen versus if. And I think that that's where people are now is they're realizing, wow, there's a, either something has happened or happened to somebody I know, or they can just see that it's on the rise and you've got to be able to be your own defender. Law enforcement is amazing. We really support law enforcement. And obviously a lot of ongoing training, more training, better training for law enforcement. Um, but they can't magically appear there in three seconds and save you necessarily. Right? So you have to be able to be your own defender. And, and every outcome doesn't mean that it has to be, you know, a firearm involved. You know, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of situations that you can navigate in a different way if you have the tools to do so. If you have the knowledge and the tools.

Speaker B: One final question. How'd you come up with your name

Speaker C: with United Defense Tactical?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, that's a, that's a great question. Nobody's ever asked me that question.

Speaker B: Uh, uh, well, I'm sitting there thinking about and my first thought when I heard the name was what an interesting and very specific name. There's got to be a story behind it there.

Speaker C: There is a story. There is a story. Yeah. So, um, so a lot of, you know, a lot. So we've trained with, with former SEALs, MARSOC. I've even trained with, uh, Alpha Group Spetsnaz over in Serbia, you know, years ago. So he's been in some world class competition shooters. And so we've really trained with really the best of the best that's out there. And so we had a couple of seals M. Uh, on our team in the very beginning and we have, we, you know, we have, we have some now as well. Uh, and UDT is kind of where that came from. Uh, so that's, that is the original SEALs, that underwater demolition team. So UDT was kind of the original.

Speaker B: Wow, that's interesting.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: And so, and then they have the SEAL team. And so they both had tridents. They both, they both kind of went through the same process and then they just ended up, uh, changing it to just seals, but, but, uh, in the community everybody kind of knows what that is. So that was kind of the basis of it because a lot of the tactics and training we were doing were kind of, uh, SEAL based type, uh, programs, uh, in tactics. And so that's kind of where it came from. And then just United Defense Tactical, which obviously also says udt. Uh, that's kind of where that name came from.

Speaker B: I love it. I love it. You hear that name and you go, that was intentional. And, and so I love, I like the story behind it. Well, thank you, Wes. Thanks for sharing some time and best of luck to you and uh, on your continued growth. So thank you so much.

Speaker C: Thank you, Josh. Appreciate you having me on, brother.

Speaker A: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Franchise Euphoria. If you'd like to get a hold of me or learn more about our Franchise services, please go to indiefranchiselaw.com that's I N law dyfranchiselaw. Com. Also, please know that the conversations and information shared on this podcast are for educational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice. Until next time, happy Franchise.