Amy Wicks on What Sustainable Engineering Really Looks Like

Entrepreneur, founder, author, and financial advisor Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. At March Forward, Marc and his partners and associates think out of the box to partner with their clients in regards to their visions for their lives, their businesses, and their legacies. And through his innovative work with the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that help to fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, reveal the stories behind their successes, and the lessons they've learned.

Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights, and a bit of fun. Now let's dive in. Good morning, America. How are you?

I asked that question a lot of different ways, and today I ask it because we're at war right now in Iran. There's a lot of stuff going on in the world. The markets are very volatile. So I'm really wondering, how are you?

But we're not going to really talk about that. We don't really get into world events and politics. But uh, you know, I just want to I just want you all to know that there's some thought behind that question and love to hear how people are doing. Uh with that, though, we are gonna we're gonna have our topic of the day, and our guests today are Amy and Chris, and you heard them in reverse on the Chris Donnelly interview, and uh I'm gonna introduce them both um officially again.

But um the topic I'm thinking about is innovation, because we're here in Babcock Ranch, Florida, uh the hometown for tomorrow, and there's lots of innovation all around us, depending on what you think innovation is. So, Chris, what do you think of when you think of innovation? I what immediately comes to mind is uh progress into the future, uh advancing how people live and forging the way forward. Forward movement.

So I just a little plug for myself forward focused forums is my company brand. Our financial planning services company is marched forward, so always focused on the future. So I love that definition. Amy, I know you might look at it a little differently.

What what do you, as somebody who's noted as an innovator, what what do you think of when you think of innovation? I do. I mean, I find it always an interesting question. That is not the first time I've been asked about innovation.

Um and I think a lot of that really is driven by Babcock Ranch. Um, the majority of my career has been working on um designing Babcock Ranch, but because of that, people see me as an innovator. And I know that those things that we're doing with sustainability and resiliency are seen as innovative. I, however, since I've I've dedicated my entire career to it, don't consider that the innovative part of what I do at all.

I consider the innovation part really more how I deal with people in my company, how I incorporate them in our culture overall in the company, and really innovating the way that we treat our people in our communities and companies, and really that differentiation of how a company grows as being what I think of as innovation. And an important step in innovation in the United States right now is how companies do grow. So for our listeners and viewers, just to translate that, because you haven't heard Amy's story yet, she's an engineer, so she thinks of the innovative stuff that she's noted for as her job, and her company is where her innovation comes in.

Is that a good way to say it? Yeah, that's absolutely true. Um I I honestly think I am, like you said, um noted as being an innovator, but really that's not what I see as innovation. That's just very everyday to me.

Um typical, typical day in, day out. Um, and the innovation really is is what I think sets us apart. So that becomes really interesting in light of the story that we're about to hear. So, real quick, Chris Donnelly, who you just heard from, is former CEO of Donnelly's Home Comfort Specialist and a vistage chair in the Philadelphia region, since many of you will be listening in Philadelphia.

And Amy Wicks PE, Amy Amy N. Wicks PE, founder and president of Wicks Consulting Group, and is a professional engineer focused on resilient community design and sustainable infrastructure. And the story, your story doesn't begin with Babcock Ranch, but it's a big part of the story. But let's talk about your humble beginnings in Indiana and how you came to get to this part of Florida and and uh and become known as um an innovator.

Yeah, so entrepreneurship was really a big part of my upbringing. Um my great-grandparents, who um frankly had passed before I was even born, um, came to America from Germany, started a lumberyard that was then transitioned to my grandfather. I grew up, my mom worked at the lumberyard, grew up around the lumberyard, um, my my mother, it's on my mother's side. Um, my dad owned a construction company as I was growing up.

So, really, as I came into kind of um doing my own thing, entrepreneurship was the way to go and building things that were going to last long term too. I mean, that was all part of it. I mean, even going back into engineering, construction obviously is part of it, a lumber yard is part of it. I just kept building on what my family started.

That's really it. So you were destined or doomed, depending on how you look at it, to entrepreneurship. I mean, there were lots of times through that that I even said, I will never work in this field. Um, it's just not going to happen, and I hate it.

And and here we are. So well, what an interesting part of your story too is that it was always in your bones, but it was quite a few years till you actually became an entrepreneur. But oh, absolutely, yeah. So but you were it wasn't the plan.

Like I said, um I I never thought that this was I didn't even think I was gonna end up being a civil engineer um when I started out. It was a lot of transitions and denying what was already in my bones. Um, but but I did. I moved to Florida um during the Sunbelt Boom when construction was going crazy.

I graduated college in 2004, moved down immediately out of college, um, and hopped around at a few firms over that time, went through three different engineering firms in Lee County, Florida, um, before I started to open my own thing because I really enjoyed the work that I was doing specifically for Babcock Ranch. I think Sid Kitsen had a great vision and really opened my eyes to how we can do things differently. Um, and I enjoyed it so much that I wanted that to be the main focus of my own business.

I didn't want to have to be bogged down by all of these other types of, you know, code minimum type plans and everything else. I really wanted to be able to do something that I was proud of and I could put back into the world. Um I don't care that people know necessarily that we're doing it, but I know that I'm leaving something behind that people for generations to come are going to find valuable. It's pretty amazing.

And I should mention that Amy is literally renowned. She's been interviewed on CNN, which is the whole reason I'm here because of you. I've told you that story because my wife saw her interview on on uh on 60 Minutes, but she's been on in the Wall Street Journal interview and um PBS News Hour, etc. And you know, it was it was so powerful what she delivered on there that it made us want to look at Babcock Ranch, and I know it has many people, which is pretty interesting, and as a you know, as a place to live.

So let's just note that. So and her work, we haven't talked about what it is she did yet, so some of you may not know that, but she wanted to work in stormwater management, stormwater engineering, and your first job that was sort of promised, and you're working more in land development, I understand. But then I think you later joined Johnson Engineering um and you were able to pursue your interest in that. Um, and through that is when you came to Babcock Ranch, right?

Yeah, so that's actually a kind of a funny story. Um I did. I I left my first job because it was more land development focused, even though I was promised to be stormwater. Because going back to those family roots, I I really did not want to do what my family did at all.

So I was not going to be involved in the construction industry. Um, so since I had chosen civil engineering, I was clearly not going to be doing land development. Um so I was very focused on stormwater, went to Johnson Engineering because they did promise me stormwater work shortly thereafter, and again, we're talking about it was the Sunbelt Boom. They had a lot of really large clients at the time and everything.

And my boss at the time had had gotten in on some meetings about this new really big project, and it's this guy that we've never heard of, he's never done anything over here. And um, he bought a bunch of land and he's gonna develop a sustainable community. Who even knows what that means? Frankly, I thought it was recycling.

Like I didn't know. I mean, go back to 2006. Nobody really knew it was recycling at the time. Like that was that's what sustainability was.

Um and he comes over and he sets this stack of papers on my desk, a very large stack of papers, and he was like, Amy, don't mess it up. Um, and this is two years out of college. And so I I mean, what's what's your natural inclination if you're not gonna mess it up? I was like, well, I don't know anything about sustainability.

I should probably go back to school. Um, and so so that's honestly what I did. I went back to school to try to figure out what it even meant and what I was supposed to be designing and how it had anything to do with water, because I wasn't sure. Are we gonna recycle the stormwater?

I don't know. Um, I really had no clue what I was doing at the time. Um, and that's how it all began was me not messing it up. And by the way, you were brought in from what I understand to do to work on sustainability from a water perspective.

Yes. But but what what let's just call it what it is now, and I'll tell you the way I hear it in the media. What happened was this is now known to be a hurricane-resistant, hurricane almost proof, as much as can be, community. And it was really noted after Hurricane Ian, which is when I found out about it, and when all the publicity came out, that with these big storms, and by the way, everybody says, Well, you're inland, you're not where Fort Myers is, you're not where Naples is, but there was a lot of damage all around Babcock Ranch because of the rivers, the colour of Sahatchie, and all the water around here.

So it was because of engineering, it's because of your engineering that this that the word was that we lost a few shingles. That was about it. And there's a famous video that Sid Kittson, the founder, took from his home on Lake Babcock, showing all these crazy storms and basically saying nothing happened, you know. So, and I love the story.

Let's just go to that for a second when he called you over like a few days later and said, Like, what did we do here? Wasn't that the story? Oh, yeah. So it was a it was a couple days after, and um, he did.

He asked, he was like, Amy, how how did we get here? Right. Um, and I I was pretty immediate to answer, and I was like, Sid, I I think the way we ended up doing this was because no one believed that you could do it. I mean, there wasn't a sustainable community at the time.

You weren't given the credit that was due at the time, and so they put it on the desk of the person with no experience at all. Um, and fortunately for me, I'm a perfectionist and was so terrified I was going to mess it up. I was hook, line, and sinker into what you were selling. And my goal was to make it work because I was not supposed to mess it up.

Um, and so I was a clean slate at the time, a complete whiteboard start fresh because I was so new into engineering. Whereas if I had had any experience trying to do this at all, I would have just done the traditional thing that everybody else did. Um, it would have been no different. I had to go learn how to do exactly what Sid's vision was, and he didn't know how to engineer it.

No one knew how to engineer it at the time. So I had to create that to meet his vision, and it just worked perfectly. But giving it to somebody who already had a clue of how to do it, I don't think it would have worked the same way. Chris, you would have told.

Yeah, I love the way that you tell the story. And we're talking earlier, you use the words, well, we just figured it out. And like that's the like the whole key. That's like that's the juice and the magic to the whole thing, is you're just well, we just figured out how to do it.

And then you had a test with with Hurricane Ian and prove the concept, and that's really magical. I will say that was the most terrifying 10 hours of my life because it was constantly, what's not gonna work? Like your it's like your uh final exam that you were having. Yeah, yes, right.

So, yeah, I mean it's uh it's it's pretty it is really amazing. And today, Babcock Ranch is known for its innovation, for its forward-looking attitude, and for its sustainability and for its water resilience, which is really quite an amazing achievement. So, um so we you had that success, you got some notoriety from that. What happened from then on in your career?

Um, I mean, we've we've continued to work out at Babpack Ranch. I still do work today out at Babpack Ranch, and one of the great things about working with Sid is I think we learn more and more every day. New technologies are coming out more and more. Um, with climate change, I think there's a lot more emphasis placed on infrastructure and everything in communities.

And he is so willing to listen when you're like, I think we need to do this differently so it's better next time. Um, so we are innovating a lot still here in Babcock Ranch, but I also have several other clients, both municipal and developers, who are really starting to incorporate this. And I think that's going to be the new wave that we start to see in engineering. Um, our infrastructure in the United States is finally getting to the point where it's very aged, and we need to start really updating that and making it somewhere that is going to last for generations.

And and with the climate and everything, more intense hurricanes, more intense rainfalls, that's something that's really becoming more of a focus. And how we're going to do that, I think, is going to shape engineering over the next 50 years. We really need to start looking 50 years out, not how can I do code minimum designs and just run on to the next thing. That's wonderful.

As a little aside and a plug for the show, Sid Kitson will be interviewed next week on our show. So we're going to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. So uh so you now you have your own consulting group. So let's talk about how that happened because of your notoriety and the demand for what you do.

And we only have about a minute, but we'll talk about that, and then Chris is gonna have some questions for you about that afterwards. But how did how did you get here? How did you get to start the business? So, really, the business was started just out of I wanted to be able to focus on what my passions were full-time.

Um, but in doing that, I also wanted to be able to create an environment for my people to actually grow and thrive as well. I think engineering, um, just generally speaking, is very traditional. Everybody works for somebody else, it's a top-down structure. Even in those places that are telling you that it's not a top-down structure.

Um, I want to be able to raise leaders in my firm so everybody can kind of go out and pursue what they are most passionate about pursuing. And so that became a really important part of building my company. That's a great place to take a break. So we'll be right back in a minute on Founders Forum.

What if your next development could work with nature instead of against it? At Wicks Consulting Group, we're a sustainable civil engineering firm helping land developers build smarter - and more resiliently. From stormwater management and floodplain design to ecological engineering and wetland restoration, we design infrastructure that stands up to tomorrow's climate challenges. If you're a developer who cares about resilient, responsible design - not just what's required, but what's right - WCG brings the technical expertise and environmental vision to get it done right the first time.

Based in Babcock Ranch, Florida. Proven across the nation. Visit wickscg.com or call 239-361-2865 to start your next project with a team that builds tomorrow, sustainably today.

We are back on Founders Forum with our guest today, Amy Wicks, and Chris Donnelly is sitting in as co-host. And just real quick to bring everyone up to date. So in 2023, only really almost three years ago, you launched your own ecological engineering firm, and your goal was specifically on sustainable and resilient development projects across the country. So now you've gone nationwide with it, and your growth has been has been phenomenal.

So the first year it was just you and you had a part-time employee. I know you told me, and then by the end of the next year, you had five employees. Um and I'm gonna let you uh let Chris ask you questions about your culture, management, and leadership from there. Amy, I think the thing that I'd like to know more about is you you mentioned that you wanted to do what your passion was.

And uh I suspect that now that the business is three years old, you have 10 employees, things look a little bit different than what you imagined. What what's what's sort of the biggest challenges you're facing now? I don't think it's any different than what I had envisioned. Um, with the exception of I I think it's been a little bit slower than I had hoped to get people really doing what they're most passionate about.

Um and I think that's partially um due to the fact that they're they're joining the firm because they're also passionate what I'm about passionate about. Um so so that really, I don't think there really have been a lot of differences there. Now, what has definitely surprised me the most is the amount of time I spend doing things that I'm not passionate about. Um, I didn't start the business because I was passionate about running a business.

Um so all of those things that go into running a business, um, trying to find the right hires, trying to do the accounting, trying to make sure that we're marketing not only for trying to find more work, but also marketing and trying to make sure that people understand our culture so we can attract the right type of people, um, take so much more time than I thought that they were going to. Um, those are the things that really are the most challenging out of what I'm doing. Um, but as far as what I expected the company to look like, it's absolutely what I expected it to look like.

And I think we have a really great culture with the people we have right now, and we really have a nice aligned vision between all of us, which has been just absolutely fabulous. Yeah, that that sounds like it. What what do you what do you view your role over the next three to four years as you grow this business, given the frame of what you just said? Um my specific role um in the firm over the next three years and what I'm focusing on, or kind of our overall growth strategy.

Well, you mentioned about running a business. Yeah. And this we'd sort of talked about this transition of like you're an engineer and you're doing cool things, and now you have this business and you have these people, and it's more about vision and it's about getting the right people. Like, how do you view your role shifting in that context?

Yeah, I I think in that context, um, I I'm really focused on right now with the people I hire, making sure I'm investing a lot of time in them so they can do those things that I'm also passionate about doing. The actual engineering, um, thinking forward, thinking holistically of the whole picture, not just I'm developing a um gas station right now, and how do I do that? But how does the gas station fit into everything around it and all of the systems that are going into it? And how do we make sure that we're not interrupting other systems by developing that and really helping train them on that overall thought process, which is really how we got to Babcock Ranch to begin with, is how do all of these things fit together and we can't interrupt any of the things that exist already today.

Um, so training them to that bigger thinking so they can handle this and carry out some of their own similar type projects has been interesting. Um, it always always shocks me when I start working with new engineers, has through my whole career, um, how the big picture is almost an afterthought. And I really want to make sure that I can train those engineers. That needs to be the first thought is the big picture.

How does this little piece of the puzzle that you're doing right now fit into the big picture? Because you're catching so many things up front when you're thinking backwards from the way engineers have thought forever. Um, so I think my role will move more into that training. And I think once my um my team and everything really starts focusing on that, we're really gonna even start to see a big change in the industry where that's going to be the way that that really things need to be designed moving forward.

Yeah, it sounds like the magic that you're giving people is the vision of how do you think big and then execute small. And I hope that's the magic. I'm giving people. I hope I'm executing that that teaching well.

That's awesome. That's great. Oh, I think I think the culture is amazing. I think we do all really enjoy working together.

We have regular meetings and everything, regular every day. We meet every day to talk about everything. Everybody knows what's going on on every project. You can ask anybody.

It's a very teamwork-oriented environment, which I think is really required for the type of work that we're doing. Because you never know, especially when you're trying to be transformative and do things a different way, who's going to have that idea. I mean, it might be an admin that is like, hey, did you guys think about this? Just because they're not an engineer doesn't mean that they can't think of, can you do it this way?

Like we talked about earlier, Sid's not an engineer, but he had an idea of how it was going to be. And that's how I was able to design what we did out here. So making sure that we have that collaborative thought, I think, really lets us provide a better product. You meet in person every day or many of your people remote?

We're remote. We're 100% remote. So we I know because I see you in the office and you're there by your teams. We meet on teams every day at nine o'clock and kind of run through here's what the day's focus is for everybody.

So if anybody wants to chime in, um they can chime in and be like, hey, did you guys do this? Hey, can I look at a copy of those plans? Because I really want to see what's going on. Um, and it really helps um promote different forms of thought as we're creating our design.

So you're because we I asked this question to a lot of people that are on the show, and there's mixed feelings about being in the office, being virtual, but you're basically totally virtual and it's working great. And you have a full, uh, a completely engaged culture, it sounds like it is completely engaged. I mean, we even have we have water cooler Wednesdays where we have a random water cooler topic that comes up. Um happy hours or anything.

We do. We have happy hours, we have virtual happy hours where we have like mixology, trivias. Um, we do. It works really well.

I think it allows us to hire the best of the best because we don't have to be here. We do have some um positions that require you to be in Florida because we have the majority of our projects are in Florida. Not all of them, but the majority are just so we can do site visits and things. Um, but anywhere in Florida.

And I don't care if they go vacation for two weeks in California or get an Airbnb for a month if they don't have to be here, even if they are supposed to be based in Florida. Um, so it's worked really well for us. I think it's allowed me to hire the most creative people and the best cultural fits for the firm. And no productivity issues.

You haven't had productivity issues around that. We've only had uh productivity issues um once, um, and it was, I mean, it was something that we had to deal with and take care of. Everybody else has been absolutely phenomenal. It was just the wrong person.

I don't think in office it would have been any different, honestly. Right. Well, that happens with every business, right? At some point or another.

So so speaking of that, so let's look out. So if we're talking, this is March of 2026, going on April, and if we were talking in this time in 2029, you and I, and we're looking back on the last three years, what would have to happen, Amy, for you to feel like that was a successful progression in your life and in your business? May I ask any little bit? Sorry about that.

Um so I I think is at least as far as the company goes in the next three years, what I want to see is the type of work that we do becoming more and more normalized throughout the area. I think there, well, throughout the United States, I think there's a lot of areas, especially up in the um Northeast, that are more willing to embrace the more resilient design. I think there's a lot of areas that are also pushing really fast growth that aren't as quick to embrace it because it takes a little bit more forethought, takes a little bit more money up front.

Um, and I would really like to see more people really embracing the sustainable, resilient type growth. And I think the more we can get our message out and the more success we have, the more we're gonna see that. So in three years, I do want to see that spreading a little bit further past what we have today. Um, I also want to see You're an ambassador for reason.

Absolutely, absolutely. I I think it's the right way for us to develop anything worldwide. I don't think this is just an America thing. I don't think it's just a Florida thing.

Everyone has seen more severe storm threats, be it rainfall, the amount of rainfall, quick rainfall, hurricanes, tornadoes. I think it's something that we want to do. It's been crazy this winter all over the place. It's something that we need to start thinking about and looking at as a global issue that we need to um work on.

So I think as that takes more traction, um that's one thing that I want to see. The other thing I want to see is us to continue to maintain our culture and really grow that culture with the people that we have right now, but also bringing new people in that really fit and and then they can go out and start building their own passions and everything. Like I had mentioned to you, one of the things that that I've been surprised by maybe is that people aren't going and pursuing their passions as much.

And I think that's because we found those people who are aligned with what my passions are, but I also want to make sure that they are pursuing their passions. So seeing seeing my employees pursue their own passions, I think would definitely be something that I want to see in the next three years. You also mentioned to me you'd like to see some ownership among some of your employees. Yes, um, I do.

I want to share ownership with my employees too. Um, that's definitely one of our goals. I mean, we're we're new right now, so um trying to make sure we're getting a good balance of money in the books and everything so we can kind of sustain without waiting for the next check to show up has been an important part, but I do want to start offering shares in the next three years to my employees as well. We are down to a half a minute, believe it or not.

So I just want to ask you, because so you're doing something very important, what are your thoughts about your legacy, Amy? Oh, so my legacy, I want my legacy to be invisible, honestly. Um, good engineering is really what you get at the end of the day that you don't see. I want people to be living in these communities that we've created and not know that we did anything, because the only time they're going to know that we did anything is if it's not goes wrong.

Right, right. I love it. That's a great way to end the show. Thank you so much for being here, Amy.

I was really looking forward to the show. Thank you, Chris, for the great job co-hosting with me. Thank you all for listening, and we'll see you next week on Founders Forum. Founders’ Forum was brought to you in part, by March Forward, LLC.

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