The Consultant Perspective | Lance Brooks, Foodservice Design Professionals

Speaker A: What does people plus food service plus conversation equal? The Food Service for Thought podcast. Produced by Forbes, Heaver and Wallace and hosted by Kerry Clements and Justin Oliveras, the bi monthly podcast connects the food service industry through in depth conversations with chefs, restaurant equipment suppliers, food service establishment owners and so many others that make up our wonderful industry. If you like food people and great conversation, we think you will enjoy the Food Service for Thought podcast.

Speaker B: Hello everyone.

Speaker C: Welcome to another episode of the Food Service for Thought podcast, the podcast connecting the food service industry. Kerry, it is good to be back. It's been a minute. Hello.

Speaker D: It has been a minute. I was just thinking about that this morning. We, uh, gotta get our stuff together, Justin. But life has been happening. The world is crazy. But we're here and ah, we're here with the president of food service design, professional Lance Brooks. So thank you very much for joining us, Lance. I'm excited.

Speaker B: Thank you for the opportunity. I'm excited, uh, being my first podcast, so hopefully we see more of it.

Speaker D: Yeah, you gotta have to watch out for the paparazzi though. I mean, Justin and I get it all the time. You very rarely see us out and about without sunglasses and a cap on.

Speaker C: Especially after we add the little fake applause. Yes. Thank you, Lance for being here. We're very excited, uh, to kick off the year with you, so thank you.

Speaker D: Well, and we have, we have a few questions, but, um, I did want to kick off with one based on those cool pictures that you shared with us at Expo. Um, I don't know if you got to see him, Justin. Really? Maybe we need some picture. I think we did. Oh, the photographer did take some pictures. So we're gonna somehow use those when we share this with folks. Because those pictures, some of those went back to like, tell us a little bit about that and why that's meaningful to you.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I guess it's a good start. So when we purchased, um, H.D. rice Co. In Dallas, um, in the process of purchasing, I was going through the back storage and going through the storage I found a banker box. And in that banker box I found Mr. Uh, Gene Rice's archives. And not realizing it till last year, I was finally going through it because we just, we bought a new office unpacking, like, okay, I know what that is. Put it aside. Never really gone through it. Um, but as I pulled it out, I had a stack of sketches probably about two and a half inches thick that Mr. Rice did. All hand drawn, all just, you know, detail oriented and stuff. It's just truly amazing that somebody could do. And there's just hundreds of them. So that was part of trying to get it out frame, get him out of the industry. But as I dug deeper I found all of his articles, uh, that dated from the mid to late 40s of, of equipment manufacturers, food service magazines. And I started really digging into it. It's like, okay, this is pretty priceless because as all the manufacturers, all uh, the food service contests, uh, so that kind of started that next wave. Uh, and that's some of the stuff I brought up to the expo. Um, but lastly though, there was, we had I think six or seven of uh, some pictures he took in his custom frames. Well, I took those out and I had them redigitized. And as I was taking the pictures out of the frame I realized that there was a picture on the backside as well. So it was double sided. And for me it was like a pot of gold because I've never seen the other side. And also I had an index of, of the photographs and it kind of struck uh, a sense of appreciation of what he has done. And all that is dated before the company started. So it really kind of hit home of uh, the appreciation that Mr. Rice had, the quality, his design background, kind of how he came into the industry of uh, food service. Because all that again was prior to Mr. Rice started HG Rice.

Speaker D: So Lance, what. Because we talked about this at Expo too and I've noticed this with a couple of your colleagues. It's. Are we getting mushy? I'm, uh, getting mushy. You sharing those pictures, uh, that you found made me feel a connection, I guess some sentimentality to the way things were. I know that makes me sound old, but I, I'm not old, but I am been around for a little bit. Um, and I really enjoyed you talking about it. The passion that. I could feel that from you, the appreciation that you had and, and then the respect that you felt, um, I could feel that. What, where is that from? Just appreciation over the span of your career? Is it because of your mom being uh, your first introduction or where do you think that comes from?

Speaker B: So for me it's appreciation of what has been done. Uh, you know, I went through um, Texas A and M, studied architecture, heavily invested in that and that was technically the direction I wanted to go. So having that background and knowing how hard it is and to appreciate that, I could tell you as far as drawing, I'm horrible at drawing. I love to sketch. I can't draw a straight line to save my life and to see somebody that has that talent that's done 50 years ago. Uh, is. To me, it just. It's art. It's a lost art. Um, you know, today, everybody wants to do it, um, on Revit or AutoCAD, it's like, well, you know, anybody can do that, but to be able to sit down and just draw what's in your head. And almost a pioneer because, um, I found an article where he had the sketches, and he was pitching, uh, design by sketching 3D. So he was kind of ahead of his time at that time of, well, he's selling his product by showing these sketches. And today we look at it like, well, we're doing renderings to kind of sell our products. Like, well, he was doing that 50 years ago. Um, so for me, it's very sentimental. Uh, there's a lot of value, a lot of appreciation to kind of see how our industry has changed. But it's come a long way. But it's still the same of what was done back in the 40s and 50s.

Speaker D: Yeah, uh, I hadn't thought about that. There's a lot of things. If we sat here and listed out all the things that things advances, I guess that our industry, whether it's your side, um, you know, your direct relationship with your clients, their side of things, their changes, our changes from the manufacturing and sales side of things. But still, at the end of the day, um, I find it heartening that we can appreciate the people that came before us and then also recognize we've come a long way, but. There's still this appreciation. And, um, I think it's our job to keep talking about it and to keep it alive.

Speaker B: And I think on the food service side, I don't think that we've, as consultant community, have really embrace each other enough. Uh, because I think we've always been more competitors versus your competitor. We're on the same area. We're all doing this similar stuff. We have certain expertise. Um, you know, it's okay. It's. There's. It's okay to have competition because competition makes us better at what we do. Uh, we always like to raise the bar, and that. That helps everybody as an industry as a whole.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's smart. I was talking to a customer a while back, and that was one of the things. It was somebody. It was a customer. So, um, not on our side of things, obviously, but, uh, how adversarial things are, even between folks that not even make sense for it to be adversarial. If, at the end of the day, the operator Right. As our customer. Um, uh, I don't know if that sounds Pollyanna or whatever, but considering the state of things, it seems like the most reasonable way to address some of the challenges, you know, is really let's focus back on the operator, what we need to deliver for them. And that's why we're doing this podcast with you. It's important that people that have been doing whatever it is they've been doing for a long time share their wisdom. Um, and, um, you definitely, you're not old, dude, you're a lot younger than me, but you're not new and you know a bunch. So we're gonna ask you some questions and um, hopefully the operators that we both serve benefit from it and find some nugget of help. Help. So.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And car, you know, at the day, what we do is for the operator. It doesn't matter what I think they need or, or what piece of equipment they want. It's if, you know, we got to make the operator successful and put some of our personal stuff behind and give them what they're asking for.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: On that note, uh, well said, by the way, I had a, a more specific question kind of along that lines. Uh, from your perspective, can you talk to us about some of the kitchen design choices that have the biggest day to day impact on staffing and performance inside the, inside the operation?

Speaker B: So I guess the first thing on that is, um, the design and the day to day process is important, but I think the bigger picture to look at it is at the end, it's about the students. Uh, what we do has an impact on the students. So for us it's, you know, properly designing the kitchen, programming the kitchen, make sure we have the correct sizes, uh, maximizing the cross adjacent, uh, relationships with the kitchen, um, you know, designing the servery. So there's a lot of interaction with the students, with the operator. And I think by, if we do our job, the staff comes in, the morale is high, the working relationships are correct. So, you know, my baker goes from the dry store to the baker, she has her own little bakery. Then goes from a baker to the holding. It's smoother for her. So the steps are less, she's working smarter, not harder, and there's less cross traffic. Um, so hopefully the energy of the flow translates to them when it's time to serve lunch, go out in the serving line and greet the kids and actually increase, uh, the student morale as well. Because if you look at some of these older kitchens, they're undersized, they're on top of each other, they're bottleneck and they're getting there early and working longer because you know, they have to. But by laying it out correctly, you know, you already set that standards like, hey, you got a new kitchen, it's designed efficiently. So you do have less steps. You should come in more happy because you have new equipment. But I think uh, by doing that, the ultimate goal is making sure that the day to day interaction with the student is positive. And if we can do our job correctly, that should translate to a better meal and interaction with the students.

Speaker C: Uh, that's a good point. When you were saying that, it made me think of we've all been in plenty of kitchens. Some of them are old for the K12, uh, some of them are small if they're smaller districts. And even though they might be small, they can still feel inspired and alive and vibrant if it's organized well. And like you said, if morale is high on the staff, that automatically translates to the students. And now they're excited and they're getting greeted in the line and they're not feeling the bottleneck. Even though behind the scenes might be a little hustle m bustle. But what's presented out to the quote customer, the students, they're having a good experience. And even if it's a small district and they're, you know, they've got cardboard tables and you know, moving chairs, they can still make it, make it work. So that's interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that goes a long way because uh, the bigger district note when they get the student participation up, uh, that that actually helps them. Uh, and the other side is kids only get 15 minutes to go through the surgeon line. So sometimes that's the only time that they see a smiling face or high fives just to break away from the day to day stress that these kids are going through right now. So I think having that uh, interaction and food opportunity is extremely important.

Speaker D: I wrote down the energy of uh, the flow and it just made me think about the word energy and all the different ways we need to think about that, whether it's a school or whatever we're designing. But in a school cafeteria you have so many, um, it's not like you're dealing with a bunch of very mature people who are, you know, intentionally addressing how they show up during the day or what have you. I'm talking about the students, not the cafeteria staff. Uh, but so you're having to, you're a babysitter, you're a cheerleader, you're getting them you know, meeting their nutritional needs quickly. You're all the things without the kids really even expressing anything. Right. Because depending on what age, because you can get kind of, you know, inside of yourself and be armored up and tough and cool and all that kind of. So energy of the flow, I think, um, has a lot more meanings than just the design aspects.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, and I think we talking to some of the operators and managers, um, those kids are kind of like their kids. They know them first name basis and you know, they, some of them are retired and they still come to work because they want to be with the kids. And for me that's just, that means a lot because that kind of goes back to, um, my mom and how she grew up. But, um, that puts a whole other spin on what we do and why we do it. Uh, if we could make it easy on their side and they can focus on making sure Johnny gets a meal and smile and all that, that's all we're asking for. And that's. We want to take care of those kids.

Speaker D: I love this. This is fun already. Um, so if you look back at some of the decisions, like you said, the operators, you got to do what they want ultimately. Right. I mean you're there to kind of shift and guide them. But if I want this, this way, you know, you've got to address that for them. So I'm wondering what decisions, just looking back, what, uh, decisions do operators kind of often make early on that end up costing them the most later in the kitchen?

Speaker B: So, um, you know, I think the, for operators there's several items and I'm gonna start maybe at the very beginning that, uh, maybe a lot of the industry doesn't see. But when the idea of a school bond comes up, um, I think that's probably something. When operators get involved is a significant mistake. Um, because when we hear the word bond, that means they need money. Uh, they need to know what the facility conditions are and how do they get there, how do they know that they're being protected or somebody's watching them, giving them what they need. So for us, we do a lot of facility assessments, uh, and we tell them that, hey, you know, this is the condition of all your facilities. Uh, this. What's code? Not code, the cost, replacement cost, even the square footage. This is where you're at now. This is what it should be to current trends because you're looking at stuff that's 20 years old. And now we've already, we've gone through a lot of trend different. Uh, and that Gives them a baseline. So when facilities come to us like, hey, you have school xyz, we want to put in the bond. What do you need? It's not a. I need a convection oven. I need, uh, a dish machine or serving counter. And I can say, okay, well, here's the assessment that was done. Um, it's undersized. It needs to be. The facility's been replaced and it's going to cost us, you know, $500,000. So they have a physical number versus saying we just need equipment X, Y, Z. Does that make sense?

Speaker D: Yep.

Speaker B: So I think as a starting point that's probably a big one. Um, so that would be my thing is if Wyvernberg is involved, when they hear that to you, have somebody go through facilities and find out really what are they needing, what are they lacking, and what is the cost of that associated, uh, equipment.

Speaker D: Okay. So it's a lot more conceptual also.

Speaker B: It's more conceptual, but it's. I guess it's a snapshot in time, uh, of what's existing compared to the current trend. So that way you can have the comparison of what you have versus what it needs to be. And they could say, well, that's the dollar value of, of xyz.

Speaker D: I gotta ask. Do you ever get. Sorry, Justin, your turn next. Do you ever get uh, do you ever get like, uh, where you're having to have a conversation? Yes, that's the way you've always done things, or that's the way your current staff experience things. But we are going to design not just for when the school's built in 18 months, but for the next 10, 12, 15 years.

Speaker B: So that is sometimes the hard one because ultimately, uh, we want to design it for the next 20 years, not for the next five years. And that comes in some of the pitfalls of, uh, oh, we don't need all that equipment. It's like, well, just you want to grow into the facility. Because a lot of times they're thinking, oh, our elementary school is only 500 students. But they don't realize that the new design, the building, uh, capacity could be a thousand students. So versus thinking of what you have now, think of what the full build out is going to be. And that way you could kind of grow into the facility versus, you know, landlocked yourself just accommodate 500 students.

Speaker D: Oh my gosh. So this is really important now as schools are closing and they're shifting kids over to these schools. So it's not even just there's been two new apartments being built or a New master plan community. We're shutting down schools where we're going to have to ship those kids to, to a couple of different campuses. We don't have to worry about capacity because if the school that they're moving m to has been remodeled or whatever and can take that students. But. Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Speaker B: Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. And it is often that the schools don't go to capacity. There's a little fudge room in there, but. But we don't want to short them, um, of it. You know, we always want to oversize, be conservative, because we don't know what the future holds. So. And for us, it's hard because, you know, I got brick walls we got to deal with, and once you build it, it's hard to increase. So it's like work within the box you have. Um, and how do we make that flow flexible? It's.

Speaker D: It's difficult because that's it. The walls are the walls. The columns are the columns.

Speaker B: Yep. And wait till the next 20, 30 years to, uh, renovate.

Speaker D: You know, Lance, being down here, you know, I'm on the coast there. Many times since I've lived down here for, uh, 20 some odd years, we have had school flood, where for six months or more, students have squished in to schools. And the kitchens and cafeteria can take this on. Maybe the classrooms can't, but they can. They can fit them in that way. I mean, they all figure it out. I don't know how schools do what they do. Honestly, I am amazed all the time whether it's the whole district itself, how they operate, but they do, and the three of us are all part of that. So that's kind of neat.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think what you hit on is a good segue. Kitchen staffs are very unappreciated. They, uh, need more appreciation because you think about just that, uh, those kitchens aren't sized to do that capacity, but they do it. They don't care what it takes. They do it. Think about COVID I know Capell, uh, specifically, they were serving meals out in the parking lot and helping students do homework. And it's like they. They go above and beyond what it takes to take care of those students. And it's unfortunate that they are kind of behind the scenes to make sure they take care of our kids. And a lot of times in our priority list on projects, we are the bottom. And it hurts because you think about, we're feeding these kids. We have so much energy and gas consumption, and that space is a priority. But let's put you guys on the bottom list and just be happy you're getting a new kitchen. And that's, uh, sometimes unfortunate that, uh, we have that happen.

Speaker D: It is an afterthought most of the time, it feels like. And it's the, uh, it's the hub. It's the hub.

Speaker B: 100%.

Speaker C: That's really frustrating. Uh, when I used to cook, that was really frustrating of like, the size of the kitchens that you would work in at some of these restaurants and be able to produce great food. But it's like, man, this is, uh, you know, there's a lot, a lot going on here. I'm flipping a sheet pan over on a garbage can and using it as a table. It's like, I get it. It's not, you know, revenue generating, but same with the schools. It's like they deserve a, uh, uh, they need to have a good space. And at home, when you have people over, where does everybody end up? Just all standing in the kitchen. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's the hub of everything.

Speaker B: It's the communal table, and that's where everybody gets along. Because you have food.

Speaker D: We're not talking. We're not saying something stupid. That's right.

Speaker C: You want to get students to pay attention more. Just have the meetings and have the classrooms in the kitchen. Everybody's eating and they'll be quiet and they'll listen.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker D: Oh, my gosh. This happens when you design your home or any design project. It's unavoidable. I think it's unavoidable. So what tends to work beautifully in a design plan but needs the most adjustment once the kitchen is actually in use? Is there one thing or a couple of things?

Speaker B: I think there's a, uh, handful of things, um, the design process and, and we're going through right now with our house. We're renovating. Three month renovation. It's six months and we're still modifying, but it all sounds good on paper in theory. And once you get in it, um, it's night and day because what the owner currently is operating in and get into the new facility, it's all new equipment. The square footage is larger, the flow is different. So sometimes it takes a year to two years for the operation to kind of figure out how to utilize the kitchen or all the space, um, and also do with the amount of equipment they have because they don't understand that, hey, this is really designed and built for the 20 to 30 year lifespan versus this. What we need right now, uh, So a lot of times when we see that they're just not accustomed to the size, um, and the duplication of equipment. So that's kind of where the, one of the heartburns comes in at.

Speaker C: Yeah, that makes, that makes total sense. If you're used to having everything stacked on top of each other and you know, you don't even have to take a full step, you know, backwards to access something. And now you're, you got to walk halfway down the kitchen. Uh, you need to rethink kind of the flow and how you organize stuff. And you might even need to think about when and how we prep stuff with new equipment. You know, maybe you used to have to throw chicken nuggets in the thing first thing in the morning and now it's like, well, you can wait till 40 minutes before service starts or, you know, whatever, and how you, how you steam things differently and all that kind of stuff. Um, do you find that with that, do you find that most of the, most of the kitchens are open to that or like they, they understand that and they just kind of fumble through it for a little bit or do you, do you find a lot of like, resistance?

Speaker B: So I think what happens is that, you know, we're working with the director and the architects on what they want it to be. I think what's happening is that the food service operation never gets the managers and their team for that facility involved. So it's just like, um, you pull up to your house and there's a brand new Tesla in your car. Well, that's great. I don't know how to turn it on or open the door. Uh, so it's kind of that mentality is like, uh, you know, they like steamers and convection ovens, but now we got three combi ovens. They don't like it because they don't know how to use it and they're uncomfortable with it. Um, and I think that's just because of the translation from what we have on the design side has never made it through the end user on the day to day operations,

Speaker D: which is kind of impossible to involve them to an extent because they're not hired yet. I mean, you can maybe have a focus group with some of your current staff, but let's face it, human beings are resistant to change. So that's a big hurdle, I'm guessing.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's, you think of our industry of uh, what we call new technology. Um, on our side it's a new controller. Now it's going from the dial temperature to a Digital controller. Just that on our end is new technology. Uh, versus, uh, I was at the Vegas show in January and I saw dancing robots and dogs that were doing backflips. I'm like, just blown away. And it's like, well, we're happy with new controllers. I'm like, okay, I see the gap now. Um, but you're 100, Greg. Yeah.

Speaker D: Ah, Justin. Uh, just wait. We, you know, as uh, salespeople, Lance, we've had to evolve with some of these controllers or the technology. And now when you're, when you're thinking about hiring a salesperson, they do need to have, they need to be okay being in front of the camera. They need to be okay learning some tech. Tech. Um, and it has to be. They're conceptually okay with it because the tech is changing so fast. You know, we were talking about that before we started recording. So I'm guessing while we're still working, probably very soon a lot of this equipment is going to be managed on apps and that's just going to push through. So I mean we noticed that with like Antunas is a line that um, I'm not sure if you're familiar with them, but they do like a lot of qsr, a lot of big chain stuff. And so you don't really have operators. Some of it, you have operators. It's just very simple. Um, but other things that are more tech involved is over our head. They're sending in engineers, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's think about our operators day to day. I mean, um, they're not coming from college universities, you know, they're coming and just look for a part time job. So to try to simplify it, make it easy for them and we give them all this new job technology. I could see where there's a gap, um, comfortability of using a piece of equipment or thinking, am I going to break that oven if I put it on all convection mode versus steamer mode. Um, but you got to look at both sides of the technology and the comfortability of uh, actually using it.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. Because we're also not paying them $100,000 to know this, to have this kind of education or just not unless it's, somebody who's, you know. I know it happened some. It used to happen more where parents would leave their career jobs for a while and work in the cafeterias. I don't think that happens anymore. But they'd work in the cafeteria, so they'd get off work at the same time their kids were getting out of school. And I, uh, Know that that's changed a lot. So.

Speaker B: Yep. You know, maybe to add on to that, you think about, you know, we, we work on a job from six months to a year and a half and it goes under construction. Now when we do startup, uh, as you guys know, you guys maybe get 15 minutes to show them how to use a piece of equipment and then we all walk away. And that's really unfortunate because I know if I have to do learn 10 new things within 50 minutes, I'm, um, going to go macro. Remember anything.

Speaker D: You know, let's take this opportunity to all the manufacturers who we will be sending this to, and hopefully even competitive manufacturers. Let's get some great videos with product in it that shows people how to use it they can go back to over and over and over again. Because doing a demo, um, with, without product in it, it's, it's hard. Luckily, there's usually a staff member who's done something, you know, has a little bit to pull from and just. I'm guessing it was the same when you were, uh, on the line cooking. If y' all got a new piece of equipment, I mean, a refrigerator, you know what to do with. But if there's some programming decision making that has to go in and I gotta know right away, it's kind of like, oh, I'm driving this new car, using your car analogy, but it's stick and I've never driven stick before, but figure it out kind of deal. So, yeah, manufacturers, let's get us some great training videos.

Speaker C: Well, sometimes right when you're there on those demo days, the building is still having, you know, electrical issues or, you know, some people aren't there or whatever. And it's like, that's normal, right? It's like you build a new house, same thing. It's like you're going to have hiccups for a little while. So, yeah, sometimes it's like, okay, imagine if this was on and imagine if this control panel said this and this. All, ah, you have to do is press in this area here. So that can make it kind of difficult.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that happens so much and it's really unfortunate. But I think as consultants and reps, I think that's where we take the team approach and we really press on. Hey, if you need more training, ask and we'll get whoever out there to do it. And again, I think that goes back to the staff, not pushing back to the operator. Let them know, hey, we need, I need. If you really don't use the combi. I mean you need to show me again and get the menus. And unfortunately the worst thing is going out to a brand new facility. You have uh, a couple combis and they're using a steamer to convection ovens and they're not using them at all. It's like that's the last thing we want.

Speaker D: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, there's, this is what gives me hope is there's still a lot of room for improvement in the whole system. Um, but it does boil down to people still. It boils down to people.

Speaker C: I will say one thing that Lance mentioned earlier. Um, I don't remember exactly. You were talking about bonds and I thought this was a really interesting point. I think it's ah, just a good reminder for all of us to think about, especially on the right rep side is there's so much more that goes into this process than I want a new convection oven or buy my refrigerator. There's so much more. And you were kind of speaking to like, hey, do you physically have the infrastructure to do what you're talking about doing? So like before we go shopping, like we need to make sure you've got water going to the right places. You've got, you know, whatever it is on the technical side. I ah, thought that was really interesting that, that, that so much more of that has to take place before we can get to the part where what we think of which is the equipment side or the kind of the, the finishing out the space and using the space versus understanding that hey, we have to make sure the space is usable and then if not, what needs to go into that process in order to make it and let that kind of inform then from there, where do you go with equipment and flow and all that? So I thought that was really interesting. I had thought about it in a while from that perspective. Uh, so thank you for sharing that and for knocking some cobwebs loose on me.

Speaker B: I appreciate it. And uh, this is great stuff. I really enjoy talking about this and uh, you know, it's, it's, it's a family, you know, business and you know, every client is not a client. They're a family, extended family member. So we just try to get them what they want and just, you know, do the best we can.

Speaker D: Lance, real quick before we wrap up, what's one thing? Uh, so imagine Capel or, or your other clients listening now and you don't always have time to get into uh, you know, a lot of the behind the scenes. Is there something that, whether it's for the design part or just in general that you'd like, like to say to them as far as, I guess maybe the industry as a whole or um, maybe the design process, Anything at all.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, um, one thing that uh, I think most of them realize but um, that with the direction of our industry, you know, things are getting tighter and less communicational just because of, you know, budgets are, they, they've doubled and everybody is really, uh, tightening down. So uh, you know, we, we are the owner's advocate. We want to make sure we give them exactly what they want. And sometimes when we can't get that line of communication, they, that um, it's okay that you know, we're here to protect them and give them what they want, not what we want or this is what we use the last job, by all means, um, we'll provide what they want, but we also can need some help on them to kind of push it through their chain of command to get it to us. So it's kind of a two way street. But you know, we never just want to give a design and say this is it. It's like we want their, we want them to know that this is their design. They're going to live it 30 years. So doesn't matter me how much equipment or what equipment is in there. I just want to get, you know, the baseline set.

Speaker D: You said the word advocate. Yeah. You're their advocate. You're their advocate.

Speaker B: 100%.

Speaker D: Well, um, we did a full circle because we talked earlier about, um, that we should be here to serve the operator. And you just. That's what we're landing. You're here to serve the operator and that's kind of can remove a lot of confusion, a lot of barriers, a lot. If, if you and, and, and us, uh, and our, our reps, other reps or competitive reps, um, manufacturers, whatever, at the end of the day. And there's a lot of that out there. Right. I would say, especially in Texas, we've got some good folks. So, um, we do a nice job of that. But you guys, um, y' all have so many school clients. So, so, so many school clients. And I guess that speaks to your advocacy. So thanks for being that kind of consultant. Um, this is a pleasure. This is a real hoot.

Speaker B: This, this is great. I, uh, I appreciate it and love talking about. This is my passion. Uh, so, you know, anybody wants to talk further, I'm more than happy to get on the phone and, or podcast.

Speaker D: Yeah, you might, you might be back for another podcast actually. You might be back for another podcast. Well, thanks so much. I really appreciate it. Um, you know, you never know how a conversation's gonna go, but, uh, you're a natural, so thank you. This is good stuff. Thanks.

Speaker B: I appreciate it. Jess, it's great seeing you. Thank you, Carrie. And we'll talk to you all soon.

Speaker C: Great seeing you. Appreciate it.

Speaker B: Likewise.

Speaker D: Bye, guys.

Speaker B: Bye.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to the Food Service for Thought podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. And a big shout out to Forbes, Heaver and Wallace and everyone on the team for producing the first ever food food service rep driven podcast. Please subscribe, rate and review. Oh, and go eat out at your local restaurant or grab some takeout or delivery. Even if you are just in the mood for some apps or dessert, every bite helps.