Menu Madness - Trends That Need to End

Speaker A: What does people plus food service plus conversation equal? The Food Service for Thought podcast. Produced by Forbes, Heaver and Wallace, and hosted by Keri Clements and Justin Oliveras, the bi monthly podcast connects the food service industry through in depth conversations with chefs, restaurant equipment suppliers, food service establishment owners, and so many others that make up our wonderful industry. If you like food people and great conversation, we think you will enjoy the Food Service for Thought podcast.

Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Food Service for Thought podcast, the podcast connecting the food service industry. Today it is Carrie and Justin, and we are going to get crazy talking about menu madness. Carrie, Hello.

Speaker C: Oh, uh, are you talking to me?

Speaker B: I. Yep. Well, I do have a. I do have a mouse in my pocket that's also named Carrie, so I apologize for the confusion.

Speaker C: Uh, hey, Justin, you know, fun fact about my name, there's this. I met this lady. There were like 10 of us at a party this weekend, and this lady, we all knew each other. And this lady comes up and introduces herself and, and she's like, okay, Annie, Cheryl, Carrie. And just kind of goes around and she's like, I'm not going to remember anybody. And I said, think of a scene in the movie Carrie when the pig's blood drops over her. And guess what? Mine was a name she remembered.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: So look at that. A PSA on how to remember people you meet.

Speaker B: Okay, well, now that I'm thoroughly disturbed. Good morning. Good afternoon. Uh, whatever time of day it is

Speaker C: for you, it's still morning. We're in the same day part, as they say in the restaurant biz. Yep.

Speaker B: We still can eat eggs. And it's acceptable time of day to still have eggs.

Speaker C: Well, I think we agree that you can have eggs any time of the day you want.

Speaker B: That's true.

Speaker C: B for D. B for D. Be pretty. Uh, but there's some things you probably shouldn't do, and I think we're going to talk about. I. I don't like to say shouldn't. I don't like to all over people. But, Uh, this is me with no caffeine.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I was late to the caffeine party this morning, so, uh, it's still working its way through. Through to get. Get me some energy. Uh, but we're talking menu.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Madness. And I honestly, before I read the details of this, I had other thoughts. So I think we can go all over the place. One of the things that we are going to talk about. What's a food trend that chefs secretly, uh, hate? And a couple things that are listed here. And I would say, forget just chefs. I think maybe we can talk about that. That just maybe people now dislike. And they used to. So truffle oil.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: For a moment, truffle oil was the cat's pajamas. And, um, now I think it. It's. It still has a place. You still see it, you know, at restaurants with. It's on fries or whatever. But, like, I think people realize quickly that truffles and truffle oil are two very different things.

Speaker C: Okay. Some people. Me, for instance, don't know about this, but I can say truffle oil, um, because I'm not as bougie a foodie as you. Can you be a comfort foodie? I'm a comfort foodie all day long. All day long. Not. That's not true. I'm really tired. I don't have much left. Um, okay. Truffle oil. What? Okay, you're going to have to talk to me about the difference. Truffle oil I have had, um, like, Mac and cheese with truffle oil and different things. I don't care for it. And look, I get. I like earthy things. I do. That is not one. And, and, um. So why, what's. But what's the difference between truffles and truffle oil as far as a cooking person such as yourself?

Speaker B: So truffles, uh, you know, an oversimplification of them would be to say that they're. They're giant mushrooms. Right. Kind of a thing where you shave off. You can kind of shave them on things, and they usually find them on, like, pasta. Uh, and they're. They're very fragrant. Right? They like, They're. The aroma is like you open a bag of truffles in the kitchen and just boom, two seconds, it hits everywhere. So that's often seen as like, like corn nuts.

Speaker C: Corn nuts do the same thing.

Speaker B: That's right. Yeah, exactly. They're right next to each other in the. In the grocery store aisle. Fresh truffles and corn nuts. Uh, but I think so that. That punch of, uh, aroma, um, and the. The truffles themselves is often kind of seen as, you know, elevated or, you know, kind of a special thing. And you have. Not necessarily equal to, but kind of along the same lines as, like, a caviar kind of thing, where it's like, it's not part of every dish. It's not part of most dishes. It's usually seasonal, and when it. When it is, it's kind of a special thing. So I think they. Then the conversion Was, hey, that's kind of a special thing. What if we took that strong flavor and strong smell that people really like and we could make it more accessible. So it became truffle oil. And that, that's what you see on, like, pizzas. We'll get it at, you know, nice pizza places and you'll get truffle fries and you'll get kind of all over the place. I don't like it because I, I think it's like one of the. The easiest way I can describe it would be like the difference between vanilla bean and vanilla syrup.

Speaker C: Oh, okay.

Speaker B: If that makes sense. Right. Or like having a real piece of caramel and having caramel syrup.

Speaker C: Okay, I got it.

Speaker B: So it's like, it's like that kind of a difference where, like, you still get it kind of, but it's not really the same. And I think people are, are heavy handed with it. And it's like, that is like, very, very minimal. Just sort of, you know, give me a spray bottle and that's. That's enough.

Speaker C: Yeah, don't axe body spray the shit out of truffle.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. And that's what ends up happening. And I think it's like people, people get their food and it's just drowning in truffle oil. And it's like that, it's very strong. It just cancels everything else out. And it's like, that's really intense to have more than a couple of bites.

Speaker C: So we're probably changing the whole epicurean experience of people just by this conversation. I. It's also kind of disturbing that they're. They're considered like underground mushrooms. But while I don't like truffles or truffle oil, I will say there was a book called A Year in Provence, and there's this part, and I remember nothing else about this book where they are, uh, like, out with their dog, searching for truffle. I think have the right book. And that was quite charming. And so that is, that is the way I will allow truffles to be in my life is to read about a couple experiencing a year in Provence with their dogs looking for truffles. And we can move on from truffles if you want.

Speaker B: Sounds good.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, another one that I think has come and gone now. It's still on a lot of menus, but I think the, the moment that it had is passed is, um, avocado toast.

Speaker C: Okay. Has it passed? Because I feel like the same people who get giddy for PSLs or pumpkin spice lattes. Still want avocado toast? Sorry. You know who you are. I love you. I see you. I hear you. I. I support you. I, um. Yeah, I do like avocado toast, actually, so. Yeah.

Speaker B: But I think it's.

Speaker C: It.

Speaker B: It had its moment of being $28 on a brunch menu.

Speaker C: Yeah. It's not super famous anymore.

Speaker B: No. No. And I think it got replaced by, um, all things like cottage cheese, which is now not so much at restaurants, but that's taking over. Like, it has been like, oh, my God, you guys, you've got to try my new viral cottage cheese recipe. I take a bowl, I put cottage cheese in it, and then I put honey on it and fruit and. Oh, my God, it's the most amazing thing in the world.

Speaker C: Okay, Here. My grandmother used to have bucket loads. I think she had, like, a tanker of. Of cottage cheese at her house. She ate it with everything. And it was. I quite simply did not understand it. Now that I am in the A. I've reached the age of a woman where I am easily ignored by everyone. Um, my age group. They want their cottage cheese for the protein and also. Yeah, the protein. And then I did try it, and it. It accidentally expired because I didn't eat it in my refrigerator. But I did find recipes, which I did not make for. For cottage, um, cheese chips. Have you had such a thing?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker C: You lie. I know. I can tell from you. I know your tells from all of our years playing pro am poker tournaments.

Speaker B: I did find. So Beth found a recipe for cottage cheese bagels, um, that I've made a few times, and they're actually pretty decent. You can't really taste the cottage cheese, and you can make them everything. Bagels, you know, whatever you want. But that's, like, a good, good way to do it. My. My beef with that. And it's not at restaurants because you don't really see cottage cheese at restaurants a lot unless it's like a breakfast place or something random. But it's like that.

Speaker C: Or the cafeteria.

Speaker B: Yeah. But it's like the idea of trying to. Trying to add that into every recipe, and it's like, just, you know, whatever.

Speaker C: So I'm still like that with Greek yogurt, though. Greek yogurt's my sour cream. And now I've used it and. Oh, this is going to disturb you. Tuna. Tuna salad.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Instead of mayonnaise.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Yep. That's.

Speaker B: We're no longer friends.

Speaker C: Okay. So we should. Something we could probably agree on is foam.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: We're not talking coffee foam.

Speaker B: No, My understanding of the creation of foam, uh, it's like, it's two parts. The first one is, it's like, uh, Jeff Goldblum, Dr. Ian Malcolm from Jurassic park, when he's like, your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think that they should create dinosaurs. That is it. With foam, just because you can doesn't mean you should. But the idea of it, to my understanding, is give you the essence of another flavor without taking up any more room in your stomach. So a very light kind of, hey, I want to. I want to also include this flavor, but I don't want to necessarily put that, uh, food or ingredient on the plate in its natural or cooked state. So doing a foam gives you sort of the essence of it, and you let the other ingredients take center stage. But I think that's a little. That's a little too, like.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's like high brow, not high brow kind of thing. I don't know it. That's. It is. Um. Sorry, Sorry. First of all, to the chefs that take, um, pride in their foam. Do your foam. It's your foam. Whatever. Foam. I don't have. I don't have foam. I don't. I don't have foam. I don't have fomo. M. But I can say this, though. So I am trying to shed a few pounds. Um, and if you could do, like, a water burger with cheese and bacon and French fries foam, then I could feel I could have, like, the milkshake. I mean, I can see this as an application. Um, I'd like it. Seriously, if they can pull this off, I'm down to clown, because I.

Speaker B: There you go.

Speaker C: I'll have the milkshake. Right. Because that's clearly very healthy for you. And then. And then I can. I can have the burger foam. Do I get a burger foam?

Speaker B: There you go.

Speaker C: Chips.

Speaker B: I'm sure a place like Alinea probably has that. They've done that on a menu before.

Speaker C: There was. There was. Is that in Chicago? Yeah. Yeah. Um, there was a movie called I know you love your rom com, so you're gonna know it right away.

Speaker B: Um, how to lose a guy in 10 days.

Speaker C: Yeah. Nope. Uh, always be my. Maybe with, um. Not kidding. With, uh. I can't remember her name. Uh, Wong. What is her name? She's a comedian. Oh, she's flipping hilarious. Anyway, there's this scene where she's on a date with Keanu Reeves, and they're at this restaurant, and, like. See, I knew you seen it. Yeah. And and he's. They've got their ear here, um, headphones on, and they're listening to the sound of a deer as it dies, and they eat it at the same time. And then there's, like, foam. I don't know.

Speaker B: There is a famous. There's a famous chef that had. I did a report on him in culinary school, and he had. Heston Blumenthal, I think was his name, and he had a. A restaurant in England, and one of the dishes, it was like a. Some sort of a seafood dish, and it. It was served with a pair of headphones so you could listen to the sounds of the ocean while you ate that course. And. Okay, so I'm split on this. And I think this is where I split on the foam, too. Is like. I think that's a really unique idea.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, right.

Speaker B: It's, like, totally unique in experience.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I think at the same time, when you're The. The goal of it is to try to give you an immersive, uh, experience. And I think it makes it totally inaccessible. And I feel the same way with, like, foam of, like, I get what you're going for. That's cool. And as soon as it's on the plate, like, it's. It's a different kind of a meal. So, like, if you're geared up for that, go for it.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Like.

Speaker C: Right. Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, because I've made them. Made foams and mousses and all that stuff before, too, with canisters and all that fun stuff. And it's. It's interesting to do, and it's kind of a little bit of a science experiment kind of a thing, but, like, you know, that shows up on your plate. It's like you're not expecting it. That completely pulls you out. That is like a bad cameo in a movie.

Speaker C: You're like.

Speaker B: You're no longer watching the movie. You're like, why is John Cena in this movie right now?

Speaker C: Uh, now all I can see is John Cena.

Speaker B: Anyway, the.

Speaker C: The foam and. Okay, what you were saying. Yes. As an experience. And I do enjoy. Uh, so here, I will put this out into the, um, multiverse. Whoa. If someone wants to take me to a place where I have headphones on and I'm sitting in my bathing suit in a bathtub having seafood and having seafood foam, I will go, because who gets to do that?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: But don't. You're right. Don't have me thinking I'm pulling up to some brisket, stuffed baked potato, and it's a foam Brisket steak.

Speaker B: I'm not gonna be happy.

Speaker C: I'm not gonna be happy.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah. So along those lines, uh, this. This summer, Beth and I went to Portugal with another couple. And as a Father's Day present, the wives got the dads, all four of us. But reservations to a two Michelin star restaurant. And it was exceptional, like, the experience. But it was like one of those things where, like, this is. It's not a meal. It's totally different, right? And you get a bite of this and a bite of that, and it's 13 courses. And a couple of the courses they came with, they had little easels that they put on the table, and they had comic book panels. And that was part like, you were reading a story as you were eating this.

Speaker C: That's so cool.

Speaker B: It was cool. And then at the same time, it was like. It just kind of pulled you out of the dinner because it was. But it was like such a unique thing. And then we had another one where we did a puzzle with each of our plates fit together to make a puzzle, so you had to eat in a certain order.

Speaker C: Oh, my God.

Speaker B: So, like, I think that stuff's cool, you know, and it's. It's memorable.

Speaker C: Uh, so we shouldn't call it eating, though. We should have a different name for that. Did you say beth put these 14 different protein bars in your purse? And then just. We're like. We told the.

Speaker B: We told the Uber driver. Like, listen, we'll give you an extra finy if you're running, stewing in and out burger right now. Oh, all right, let's skip over gold leaf, because that. That's nonsense. Deconstructed anything? Yeah, where are you on. On that? A deconstructed, um, waffle.

Speaker A: I don't know.

Speaker C: My latest. My latest experience with this. I can't remember where I was, and I don't think I would say the name anyway. Um, but it's. And it's my fault because, you know, deconstructed. It's not constructed. It's deconstructed.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker C: Was a deconstructed Caesar. Okay. And there was very little to it. It's like it was the, like the bikini thong bathing suit of, uh, foods. It was of Sal. It was not a. It was just like a. A piece of romaine lettuce. And then, like, if the things were inside of that.

Speaker B: Yeah, Deconstructed Caesar. You get. You get one leaf of romaine with a couple of croutons on the inside.

Speaker C: Look, they were. They were artisanal croutons, though.

Speaker B: Oh, okay. So they were made by a Sherpa.

Speaker C: Look, I will say this. The, the way I started loving, um, salads when I was a kid is you threw some croutons in there. I was gonna have the salad otherwise. Nope. Mhm. So, yeah, I, I don't know. What do you think about deconstructed? I guess it depends.

Speaker B: So I, I think we're honestly, that can m. Uh, where I think it picks up steam is at home. Because I think a lot of the stuff is. It's, it's easy to do. So like, one of the one thing I, I don't know if we had it at a restaurant. I, I don't think we did. I did. Uh, it's like deconstructed lasagna. So it's like all the components of lasagna, but you're not taking the time to stack everything, you know, 50 times. So like. But you know what that is? That's just pasta.

Speaker C: I know, but you get to say, I made deconstructed lasagna for dinner.

Speaker B: Or like this and this, like, drives me nuts. I never liked the stuffed peppers, you know, where like you stuff them with ground turkey or ground beef and vegetables and cheese and whatever. I just.

Speaker C: Oh, that's.

Speaker B: That's a lot of pepper.

Speaker C: Yeah, I like that.

Speaker B: So a deconstructed pepper or deconstructed stuffed pepper is just all that stuff with. You just take the pepper and dice it up. It's like, that's, that's just like.

Speaker C: It's a bowl. You have a bowl.

Speaker B: It's on a plate.

Speaker C: Okay. I think though, I would like to do, I would like to do a, uh, menu. I don't like cooking, but I wish I had the energy to do this because it'd be funny to do to somebody, like send them the menu and say, I'm preparing the meal. You bring a wine for this course and you bring a wine for this course and you bring. Yeah. And then what you could do then is you could say, I'm making a, uh, deconstructed macaroni and cheese with truffles. And it's just some pasta and some cheese. I guess you'd have to do the cheese sauce. So you put that in a little ramekin, whatever. They could just pick it up with a fork and dunk it in there. And then you could, you could have some, uh, you could do some foam. You could do some. That's right, Some steak foam or something like. There you go. And then, and then just Have a pizza delivered afterwards, like, because they're gonna sit there and, you know, we have all those pretty Mikasa plates and stuff. Put some, like, the foam and maybe like a coupe or something.

Speaker B: It's awful. Yeah. I don't get the deconstructed thing.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: It's a bowl at the end of the day, so. So you could. You could make for Ayla. Tell her in your lunch today is a deconstructed PB and J. I just put some bread and a jar of peanut butter and a jar jelly. What'd you think?

Speaker B: Yep. Uh, yeah, that's. That's essentially it. Yeah. I love that. That's great.

Speaker C: This last one.

Speaker B: Yeah, the last thing. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna group and not group it together. I'll say it's kale and that, uh, you know, I think kale is tasty and does have a place in certain foods, but the love that it got. I don't know where that all came from. Um, and I think all. All greens. So kale and kind of the coarse greens, the kale, uh, chard, mustard greens, collard greens, like, all of those things have a place they belong.

Speaker A: They're good.

Speaker B: But, uh, I don't know why kale all of a sudden rose above. And I'm glad that that's not a thing anymore, because for a while it was like. It was a thing in restaurants.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yes. It's still, uh. You'll still run into it from time to time. I. I did the other day, and it was like, I don't know why we have to have, like, kale, arugula, pear, blah, blah, blah. And it's not just a pear. It's a. This is, uh, like, why do we have to do torture every piece of food that we put in some salads? I don't know. I. I'm like, more information, please. I just want a salad more. Can you. Can you give me a salad? But instead of kale, could you have, um, I don't know, butter, lettuce and spinach? And instead of the rehydrated, dehydrated, whatever, could I just have some cheese and some chicken and some. Maybe some olives and peppers? Can I just not have that other stuff? That's what I'm saying to everybody.

Speaker B: So with that to go along with your kale salad. Um, One of the biggest pet peeves I have. And I was just at a place a couple of days ago, and the salad I had was good, but it drives me nuts when it's not cut in a way that allows.

Speaker C: Oh yeah.

Speaker B: The person to eat the salad. And I get it if it's a wedge or something, you know, like, that's a lot of times wedges are just. But like, if you're doing just a regular salad, uh, and it's. The lettuce is cut. Why is it still something that like, I literally have to fold it over like origami before I can take a bite of it because it's so floppy and big.

Speaker C: This is a. This is a big. That's not good. Or worse. And we may have talked about this before, but it bears mentioning again is when you put this happened to me yesterday. So I have like no rice and beans. And they said, would you like a side salad? Yeah, I didn't know we could do that. Which is funny because it also came with like bacon and all kinds of stuff. So it defeated the purpose. But. But it was stuffed in this Tina tuna little bowl and I had to ask for a plate and dump it out on the plate. It was too, too small. I can't. This is. I don't want to eat off your table. I'm sure you, you clean up your table and it's very nice, but I just would like to not it. So the bowl. I don't know. But I have, I do have a theory on why kale became a big thing. And I want to mention it. I, uh. There's probably some statistics about this. Remember the old timey, like in the produce and meat cases and stuff. The pro. The kale would be lining it. I think what happened is probably a little kid was like, that's sad. It just stays there. But all the other things get to go home with people. And then they decided to make kale salads or kale, whatever. That's probably. Look it up.

Speaker B: Yep. Uh, yeah, it's, uh, I guess the, the superfood trend hit it because it's, it's got, you know, some good vitamins and minerals.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: I just. Yeah, it's. It's over the top. One of the things I really dislike about it is when people put it in smoothies, uh, because it's more bitter than spinach, you know, so like, you put spinach in there, you're going to get, you're going to get your iron and all that stuff, but you're not going to get a lot of taste. You'll just get color.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then you'll get the nutrients. But kale is more bitter. Um, which I think it belongs. Like I just like two Weeks ago, I made this really good bruschetta with romesco sauce. So a red pepper sauce. So nice. Toasted bread, romesco sauce and, uh, cannonelli beans. So white beans with, like, shallot.

Speaker C: I'm moving in.

Speaker B: Yep. And then, and then I did, um, uh, some kale and some Swiss chard in there and mixed it all up and then a little parmesan and a little more of the sauce. And that was great. Right, because it's like those, it's kind of like the, the, the bittery, like, snappy taste to it when it's in a savory dish like that. But just to have it thrown in everything and especially raw, like, kale does not do well raw. And it's thrown in so many salads. And like, restaurants that use kale, like nicer restaurants, they will rub it with salt to soften it up a little bit. So, like, just because you chop it up and throw raw in a salad doesn't mean that's where it belongs. You know, just like you wouldn't do that with collard greens. You'd cook them down.

Speaker C: Or you gotta. Yeah. And you gotta be careful with collard greens too.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: I, I, My daughter made, uh, for us, um, a, it was kale, but in a pan with, uh, bacon and onions sauteed. So, you know, you can't complain about that.

Speaker A: Nope.

Speaker B: Bacon and onions. There you go.

Speaker C: Yeah. So I think this is gonna be one of those episodes. We might get it some kind of. I don't, I mean, probably not Nobel Peace Prize, but some kind of peace prize.

Speaker B: No awards will be handed out. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for listening to this, uh, episode of the Food Service for Thought podcast. It has been fun. We have talked about all the things that are wrong and, um, honestly, I think the world's a better place today. So, Carrie, it was a pleasure as always. Have a wonderful day.

Speaker C: This is a day I'll remember for the rest of my life.

Speaker B: Yeah, same here. I will remember this day for the rest of the hour.

Speaker C: Thanks. Yes.

Speaker B: Have a great day.

Speaker C: Adio.

Speaker A: Uh, thank you for listening to the Food Service for Thought podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. And a big shout out to Forbes, Heaver and Wallace and everyone on the team for producing the first ever food food service rep driven podcast. Please subscribe, rate and review. Oh, and go eat out at your local restaurant or grab some takeout or delivery. Even if you are just in the mood for some apps or dessert, every bite helps.