It's Time to Talk About the Menstrual Cycle with Carmen Amador, Founder at The Cycle Method

Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the foundation series, your deep dive into startup compensation with industry leaders from across the startup world. Join me, Matt McFarlane, a people operations leader turned compensation specialist, as we uncover the strategies and practices driving success in tech startups around the world. Hear insights from heads of people, founders and experts as we explore how to build robust compensation frameworks that not only fuel growth and retention, but do so in the dynamic startup environment that we all know and love. Let's get into it. I don't know about you. Anytime I've ever done a podcast, I always find there's a. So much stuff that happens at the start of the conversation as we just like chatting and warming up or whatever. And I'm just like, oh my God, this would have been prime content for the pod, but. Mhm. Mm.

Speaker B: Yeah, this happens all the time. Do you watch? Um, I started watching a good Hang by Amy Poehler on YouTube.

Speaker A: Uh, someone else told me about this the other day. Maybe I'm gonna have to listen to it. I haven't, I haven't seen it.

Speaker B: You know what, I'm not like a celebrity person or watch any of those things, but she is just so real and so authentic and has these like incredible comedians coming in from snl, you know, from her time in SNL and all of these, uh, in Parks and Rec. And it's just a conversation between friends and the way, I don't know, she's just such an expert interviewer friend. I don't know. It really inspires me to watch something so authentic because some podcasts are just like. And blah, blah, blah and blah.

Speaker A: You know, I'll have to, I'll check it out because legitimately, I can't remember who else it was that told me about it, um, this week or last week. Um, but yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to check it out because I'm, I fell into this. Like I, I was saying to someone else today. Yeah, well, I was, um, I just wanted to start a news because like, I was writing on LinkedIn and I was sharing my experience with comp and I, and I wanted to talk about comp from that perspective. But then I start. I started a newsletter thinking I want to share other people's experience with like just comp at the time. Um, and then I was like, well, what I'll do is I'll interview people and then I'll just do a newsletter and um, and I'll just publish that. And then I was like, well, what if I'm going to interview them, I may as well do it like this and do a proper, proper thing. And um. And then classic, like, I don't know, scope creep. You know, I just went. I just kept adding more and more and more and um. But it. Now it's turned into this. And um. Yeah, that was it. So it kind of. It started out it was meant to just be a newsletter, so. That's right. I'm having these great conversations. Honestly, I love it and I'm loving. I'm loving this. Like 2026 is my big. My big focus is on, um, stepping out of just compensation. There'll still be compensation, still talk to people about pay, things like that. But I think there's so many interesting topics like the one we're about to touch on, um, that just. Yeah. Uh, don't get enough attention or just um. Yeah, just these kind of like fringe things that I think are really important to not only heads of people or uh. M. Just like the workforce in general. And yeah, businesses like. I think there's. There's heaps of stuff out there. So that's my. That's my big focus for next year is to have stuff like you. I can't remember if I told you there's, um, uh, someone here in Australia who is the head of people for Airtree, which is like a really big VC company here in Australia. And um, she is about to step out where she started. I think it's a side hustle for her at the moment, but it's um. She's doing something similar to what you're doing, but it's all around, um, menopause. So rather than the menstrual cycle and um, helping, you know, women understand how to handle that and helping businesses understand how to handle that. And um. Yeah, it's such an interesting. It's like. It's nice to see that that kind of stuff is no longer as taboo. I think that I'm sure there's still plenty of taboo, but it's not as taboo is my. My sense. And um. Yeah, like, just happy to do what I can to try and help make it less taboo. I mean, I'm all about patrons fantasy, which was taboo at one point. Right. So.

Speaker B: Well, that's it. Right. I think, because that's what I always say with menstrual cycle is, you know, mental health was very taboo for a very long time. So, you know, but we've spoken about it so much that it's become much more part of our language. Um, Right. So it's just talking. It's talking about it, it's creating these spaces, you know, to talk about compensation, to talk about all these things that are, you know, we, we all think about them, but we don't want to talk about them. And so it's bringing them to light. Yeah. So thank you for creating this space. I'm m. Super glad to be here.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm excited. Well, shall we kick things off?

Speaker B: Yeah. I changed the light because it was very. It was very like, huh, uh, we've

Speaker A: got the mood lighting. I love it. We've got the mood going on. It's morning there. It's evening here. Uh, awesome. Well, Carmen, welcome. I'll do the thing where I sound like I'm talking to the crowd, but it's just you and me right now. Um, I promise they're listening. Welcome to, to the foundation series. Um, I am super stoked to dump into this with you. Not just because it's a chance for two old colleagues to reconnect and say good day. Um, but I think you're just working in such an interesting space and such an interesting topic that, um, I know. I'm excited to, like, understand better as it's something that I think I have felt like hasn't been prominent throughout my life or career or anything like that. Um, I'm sure it's going to resonate a lot with a lot of listeners. I probably, I don't have the number, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people in HR are going to be female, so I think they're going to relate a little bit to what, uh, to what you have to say. But even if they're not, I think, um, yeah, the conversation that we're going to have today is, uh, is going to be relevant to everyone. So with that, do you want to spend a sec just telling people who you are, what you do, all that sort of stuff?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, Matt, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Um, yeah, like you already mentioned, it's super nice to reconnect. We were together at Oyster, um, but also just to chat about and geek out on specific HR topics that we both love as well. So, um, hi, everyone. I'm Carmen. I'm Spanish Dutch, and I'm a business psychologist. I'm a womb healing practitioner, and I am also the founder of the Cycle Method, which is an educational tool and a program that, uh, aims at transforming the menstrual cycle from something taboo and something hidden and something that we've silenced or just kept in the. In the symptomatic. World of things into a powerful source of well being, clarity, performance, leadership, and so much more. So that's really the, the. Yeah, in a nutshell, what, what I've been doing and what I'm doing right now. I don't know how much more you want me to chat, though. Just give it over to you for now.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I love it. I mean, I think for me, like, the first question is, like, is why this? Like, why. Why is this the thing you wanted to pursue? Why is, you know, where's. Where's the interest lie? What was the catalyst for you to go? Yeah, this is, you know, this is a topic that I really want to help people with.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's. It's so interesting, Matt, because I think most people that go into the, um, especially women's health space, it's not necessarily from a point of, oh, let's talk about this, and, and. And teach everyone. It usually. Which is great, but it usually comes from a health. A health issue or a health, you know, challenge or a lot of pain or suffering or not being heard or not being, uh, feeling like you've been seen. So that was really my story.

Speaker A: Yeah, gotcha.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, exactly. And it really started as a health journey, and then it turned into more of that business journey. So it really, really started five years ago when I decided to stop taking the contraceptive pill that I had been taking for seven years. Um, and so for those of you that don't know, with the contraceptive pill you don't ovulate, so you don't actually have a cycle. So you're kind of very, very consistent over time. So for seven years, I was very consistent and didn't really have these ebbs and flows. And so when I stopped taking the pill, lots of different things happened in my life. So for, For. For the more positive side, I started to feel myself again. It's like this, like, veil had been lifted. And I felt very. Carmen. I felt like I had the full spectrum of karma, and I could feel all of the emotions, and I felt very me, very authentic. Like, I. I'd been back after seven years of, of. Of being muted in some shape or form, but at the same time, um, my period. Raging back, raging back. And we're talking, you know, completely debilitated on day one of every month. Vomiting, shivering, be having to go home. The whole, the whole, the whole package. And so this interest really started from that point because I kept going to specialists and the answer would always be, oh, you know, just go back on the Pill or. Oh, you know, you're just one of these people that have painful periods. This is just, you know, what you've been prescribed in life. It is what it is. And ma, I was just, I refused to believe this. I was like, no, it can't, it can't be. This, this is not possible. So I'm truly grateful for those really painful periods because it, it really led me to research and nerd out on my body like I'd never had before. So I bought all the books. I've got a whole bookshelf back here to start learning about. Okay, what is it to have, um, a female body? What is the cycle? Why does my period hurt? And I just started to dive in and in and in and in. And along the journey, I started to realize, oh, my God, there is so much that I have never been taught. And then the more I would share, yeah, the more I would share this information with the people around me, I would realize, wow, none of us have been taught this information. And so it really started to transform into just my own intimate, hush, hush, quiet health journey into, oh, let's talk about this more broadly because this is fascinating and there's a sense of empowerment that we all feel when we finally bring this to the, to the conversation. And then over the years, I started to essentially really, really heal myself so I don't have painful periods anymore, which is amazing, um, through living more cyclically. But the interesting part, and what we're going to talk about today is I started to experiment and this cyclicality with work. So not just, uh, keeping it as a health conversation, but really bringing it into the business sphere and realizing, okay, I have these cycles, I have these ebbs and flows. Instead of pushing them, ignoring them, resisting them, creating this tension. What if I ride these waves specifically in my work as well and can get the most out of them? Um, so that's really how the journey, uh, started. And that's how I started to look into everything by the end. Yeah. Then I got trained as well in holistic women's health and womb awakening, womb healing. And I decided, okay, there's really something here. And the more I was bridging the worlds of my career, of business, psychology and women's health, the more I saw the overlap, right, they're not separate conversations, they're actually the same conversation. And so the more that bring the body into work, the more we're, you know, we're, uh, looking at, and approaching the whole self at work, not just our machine selves.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, there's So, I mean, so firstly, amazing. Thanks. Thanks for sharing. I guess the catalyst and like, what drove you to pursue this? It's so. I feel weird about this topic in the sense that it feels like this should be something that I should know and other people should know more about. And it kind of, it dawned on me a little bit, actually. It was last week I was catching up with a friend who's, who's, uh, started their own business as well. And I mentioned that we were going to have this conversation and she told me, oh, yeah, um, you know, I have to, I have to consider certain things that I'm doing as part of this job based on where I'm in my cycle. And I was just like, this has literally never come up for me. And now it's like I'm having this conversation with you and, and, and mention it to someone else. And, you know, it's clearly something that impacts a lot of people. Um, I'm certain most men have zero understanding of it. I'd imagine, though, that there's probably, by the sounds of what you were just saying, even a lot of women that don't have a great understanding of these and a great clarity. What should they know about it that you think they wouldn't already like? What are the common things that would be helpful to be aware of? Um, about this?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for starters, I think, especially in the workplace, is to realize why. Why have we never actually mentioned this, right? Really going to the beginnings of time and Matt, our entire modern work structure, right? The way we operate has been built in a way that is still an aftermath of the Industrial revolution, right? We talk about this in nine to five schedules in the way that everything operates. But on top of that, it also operates on the assumption that people have the same consistent energy output, focus, motivation, decision making, absolutely everything, consistently every single day, right? However, women's bodies run on a very different rhythm. We have a monthly rhythm, of course. We have the daily rhythm too, right? We sleep and we wake up. We have the circadian rhythm like men as well, but there's an additional monthly rhythm that affects so many different things. So our hormones affect absolutely everything. Our motivation, our energy, our physical energy, mental energy and, um, communication, emotional regulation, stress tolerance, so on and so on and so forth. So it affects so many things, and yet we do feel this pressure to ignore, right, These ebbs and flows or push through entirely and maybe to hide symptoms, to, you know, not talk about it when things are really painful or to not even notice these ebbs and flows, right? To really realize, oh, my goodness, I am a cyclical being. It's not even part of our. Of our conversation, right? It's just kind of shove, shove, shove it away and, and operate the same. And so, of course, our cycle lives in the shadows because we're not bringing it to the conversation. There's still taboo, there is still shame, and there's a lot of misinformation as well. So it's really no coincidence, Matt, that women at the moment are twice as likely than men to burn out at work, which is a big number. That's no joke, twice as likely. And of course, there's other factors here. There's motherhood, there's perimenopause, there's menopause and other. Other things too. Um, but the menstrual cycle is also a very, very big part of this statistic. And so there's something here that's not working, right, that is not necessarily matching, but that's really not what, uh, I want to be sharing today. What I want to share today with you, Matt, is that the conversation that's missing in hr, I, um, really feel is that there's so much untapped potential inside of the menstrual cycle. So it's not just, again, this health conversation, a DEI conversation, which it has to be, obviously, but it's so much more than that. The conversation is much bigger than just health. It's about performance, it's about burnout, it's about clarity, it's about leadership. Um, and so what I would love for folks to know on the call is that the menstrual cycle comes with really unique and predictable. I think that's a key word here. Predictable strengths that, um, I'm sure we can go into a little bit after, but these are not being leveraged. Um, and so not many people teach us how, how to use them. And that's really why I really, you know, created the cycle method as well, to help women understand the different patterns, the different unique strengths that come up at different times in the month, um, to adjust when needed, to express themselves when needed, and ultimately to feel more empowered every day and also effective at work. And, um, and the outcomes for businesses is really tangible. Imagine you can get, um, better decision making from your employees because you understand these ebbs and flows that are at play in a more hidden sense. You can reduce burnout. You have clearer communication, stronger leadership, and simply by adding this new data point into the pict, Right? That's what I always talk about, the menstrual cycle. Is just another data point. Just another data point in the full. In the full spectrum of things.

Speaker A: Yeah, there's. There's so much to unpack there. I'm just. I'm like, the things that are. The things that are going through my head right now, you know, just based on that, that small bit is like, you know, I'm not surprised. I'm thinking of all of the, you know, the bias that exists in workplace. I mean, you've got a work environment that is, you know, let's be honest, it's going to have been built by men, um, and it's built by, you know, men based on. When we were working on a production line, things like that. Um, we still see a lot of that industrial revolution, um, style of leadership in the workplace. Um, so it's really not surprising that it's kind of, you know, that some of these biases have come up around, you know, and some of the ones that obviously come to mind for me are like, you know, women are too emotional or they know they can't make, uh, you know, high stakes decisions and these sorts of, um, you know, fallacies that kind of creep into the workplace because they're entirely based on putting them in an environment and expecting them to deliver the same, um, that a man would, despite not, you know, not. Not, um, having the same. Yeah. Physical makeup and ways of work that suit them best. Yeah. I'm just like, blown. I'm blown away by it. I feel like I'm going to take a while to, like, digest this whole conversation. I'm sure we're going to cover more, but I'm just wondering, like, what, you know, based on that, what are some of the other things that you think or you see crop up, like from, uh, either either a myth or just a misunderstanding or, you know, from that perspect. When it comes to this, let's do some myth busting before we sort of dive into what I think you, you know, touched on beautifully, which is the opportunity, which is how can we actually go. Right. Well, if this environment is. Is made with women in minds or at least considered, you know, what's the potential? So let's, let's talk myth busting and then we'll dive into the opportunity.

Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Right. And I mean it. You know, I also want to validate how you're feeling. Right. Because it is a lot to unpack, like.

Speaker A: Yeah. And. And there's been no. Like, it just isn't something people talk about, like we touched on. Right. So it's. It's yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be new for a lot of people, women included.

Speaker B: Yes, no, absolutely, absolutely. And again, you know, before I dive into the myths and misunderstandings as well, it's. It is very similar to the neuro, um, diversity conversation that has been happening the last few years of not just understanding what neurodiversity is, but now also implementing it into the workplace. Right. And realizing, ah, ah, we've created workplaces that are not set up for neurodiverse individuals. And so how do we adjust that? So it's a sim. It's a similar arc, right. A similar transformation. Um, just it's more about the body as opposed to maybe, um, brain, um, changes. But anyway, so, so yes, so myths and misunderstandings. So I think that one of the biggest myths that I come across a lot is we tend to only think about the menstrual cycle, um, in two occasions when we bleed, right? When like it is physically there, we cannot escape it, um, when it hurts or when you're planning for a pregnancy, all of a sudden the menstrual cycle becomes like this thing that we're all tracking and we're tracking ovulation, et cetera, but it seems to just be in those two spaces. But the menstrual cycle is much more than just a period or something to track when you're trying to get pregnant. Right. The cycle is happening at all times. It's happening right now at all times. And it is a, uh, flux, an ebb and flow of hormones. Specifically, the two main characters are estrogen and progesterone. We won't go into it, but so people, so folks know. And then it influences absolutely everything from health to, from health to behavior to psychology to so much more. Um, and so the other myth really is that I think because we've only conceptualized it into being a period or something for pregnancy, it stays away in different realms of conversation. Again, like we've been saying, it stays in the health conversation or in the symptoms conversation. Um, and it's touched on in dei, if, if that. I also see it not being touched on in dei, so if it even gets there, it would be a DEI conversation. But there is so much more potential beyond that.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: In the, in the business realm, which we'll get to in a second. Um, but another myth I think is that talking about the cycle is unprofessional. Right? It's uh, okay, sure, maybe we're talking about it now on TikTok and Instagram and maybe a little bit on LinkedIn and with my friends. But, oh, God, I can't possibly talk about this with my manager. Right. Or I can't talk about this with my team. So that is, I think, this other myth that we need to start to look at and think, okay, why not? I'm bringing my body to work, right? My brain is inside of my body, where I'm a whole being that comes and delivers work. Why are we only talking about certain aspects and also not talking about. It costs us money, it costs us burnout, it costs us, um, retention, it costs us burnout. Um, I already said burnout. Bad decisions, et cetera. And I would say another myth is that the menstrual cycle is. Is a limitation. I see this time and time again, Matt, uh, in so many of my workshops where people go, but I don't want. I don't want to have a cycle. Like, why do we have a cycle? This is so. It's so annoying. It only gives me problems. I wish. I wish I didn't have one. And I think that's. That's pains me so much to hear that because I was. I always thought about this too. I'm like, uh, oh, like, why do we have one and men don't? It's not fair, but it's really not a limitation. There's so many unique and wonderful strengths that come with each of the different phases. So one way. Yeah. So the different. The different phases bring different strengths. And I think this is what, in essence, the real myth here is that we don't talk about these different phases having these different strengths. We just talk about the period. And so I like to conceptualize it in terms of work, uh, a terminology. So our menstruation is very similar to our inner CEO. So it's a time when you're bleeding. It's a time of clarity, of knowing, of strategic vision. You can feel very reflective. You can be very reflective. Um, and it's a big picture time. So I always refer to that, to the inner CEO. Time is when your inner CEO takes. Takes front, front stage. Our follicular phase coming out of our period, which many, many women tend to feel much more, uh, alive. Back, you know, back. Back in business, feeling like they've come out of the. Out of their period. Cave is very similar to the Chief Innovation Officer energy. So it's a time of experimentation, of trying new things, brainstorming, planning, planning the month ahead, new ideas, researching L and D. Kind of very similar to springtime, right? Like a newness, a rebirth. Um, and this this innovative time in ovulation, um, we have our chief people officer. So they're masters of people. They are feeling more confident in communicating, in managing conflict in, um, social settings, in managing people. They have a particular edge on how to interact with people and how to get the best out of them. So that's really this ovulatory time. Right? Your inner chief people officer coming to front stage.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, the myths you're talking about, uh, like, I guess in some respects it doesn't surprise me, the one around a limitation. I mean, if I think about the kinds of environments that I've been in and where I, you know, where I've come up against women who have, you know, have had to take sick leave because of period, um, pain or something like that, I think the, it is treated as a liability. Right? Like it's, it's. You're taking something that is, you know, otherwise an entitlement that could be used for when you've got the flu or when you, you know, need to care for a loved one or something like that. At least here in Australia. Um, and, and, and you're having to use it for more issues than, you know, what the, the, the rest of the workforce might have to use it for. And I think there's probably a, there's a perceived punishment in that, I think. Um, so that, that doesn't surprise me. And I, it's, it's interesting. I was thinking again while you were talking and it's like, I see companies that hyper leave, which I think is a great step forward. Um, but I wonder, and I've not, I've not worked in any of these companies, but I wonder if the conversation and the reduction in Taboo comes along with it or if it's just another leave type. Um, so I think there's probably something there as well. I was going to say I love the full C suite analogy. Although I do take issue with the lack of a chief people officer. Carmen, we should have rebadged that for this conversation, shouldn't we?

Speaker B: Our ovulation time is very similar to our inner chief marketing officer, our cmo. So a time where we, uh, it has been shown scientifically that we feel more comfortable communicating that there's more confidence, there's more risk taking as well. You feel more comfortable being visible. In fact, sometimes you want to be visible as well. Um, and it's a time where you might rethrive in social settings. So really this chief marketing officer energy. And then last but not least, we have the luteal phase, which is after ovulation and before your period, which is the time where the Chief operating officer really takes the front stage as well. So this is much more, um, around attention to detail, giving feedback, being able to spot the differences or spot the things that could be better. Um, you're really good at finishing things, executing things, focusing, get shit done. Energy, in essence. And so the reason I use the. The different chief executive, you know, uh, positions. It is exactly. They're all C suite. Yeah. Yeah. And so. And. And to really show that we have those different strengths is. Is the CEO better than the CEO? No. They all have their different purpose, and they all bring different strengths, and it's just about tapping into those different energies at different times, as opposed to saying, no, you have to be like the chief marketing officer the whole way through, and you can't except these. All these other beautiful strengths that come through. So I would say that's really the biggest myth that I would love to be busted, that it is not a limitation or something we want to hide or just this health piece. There is so much untapped potential, in fact, wasted potential, of tapping into these unique strengths. And especially in a work environment, who would not want to tap into these?

Speaker A: Right? I love it. I was only joking, by the way. You totally didn't. Uh, I love it now. I just hope your website lines up. Oh, my God.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: I don't know. Actually, I don't have to do a whole rebrand.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. How bad? See, this is why I love feedback. I love feedback. Great.

Speaker A: Uh, no, so I do. I love the. I love the C suite analogy. I think, uh, it's a great way in particular. I mean, obviously there's all these throwbacks to things like the glass and whatever else, so I love that it's channeling that, you know, when you're working with. And I guess if I frame this as. I'd really love to understand how you're working with an individual, um, and helping them adopt some of these changes and helping them access some of the performance that we've talked about as being wasted. Um, and then I want to dive into it from a workforce perspective. But tell me what it's like when you're going through this sort of approach with someone. You know, you're teaching them these things. You're. You're talking to them about some of the changes, like, what are some of the things that someone listening to this podcast could walk away with and go, okay, cool, I can. I can make some immediate Changes and improve, um, you know, my understanding of this and how I. How I, you know, leverage this not only at work, but in life.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So at the cycle method, we work with three distinct layers. So the first layer is really self awareness. Right. And most of us start there because we can't leverage the power of the cycle if we don't even know what's happening, like, within us. Right. And I think an important piece to mention here as well. I know I've just mentioned four distinct categories with four distinct strengths, but people have a very unique experience of their cycle. For some, the period is amazing. They feel super chill, they feel relaxed, they feel very at home. For others, it's horrifying and debilitating. And same with ovulation. For some, ovulation feels amazing. They feel like a superwoman. And for others, it's actually pure chaos and really unsettling. So this is also sometimes linked to, um, adhd, for example. So ADHD folks don't really love ovulation because the estrogen is chaotic. So, you know, that's just one example. But what I always urge, um, women and menstruators to look into is find your unique patterns. So start to track and start to observe with curiosity. Ah. Ah. On my period, I tend to feel X, Y, Z consistently every month. Right. The key here is the predictability. We think it's unpredictable, but the moment you start to track on a monthly basis, you realize, wow, I tend to be like clockwork, actually, on these specific emotions or these specific, uh, you know, behaviors or strengths. And so really starting to tap into what is my unique pattern and your unique pattern and someone else's unique pattern. And then how can I start to. Yeah. Understand myself from this cyclical perspective. Right. Very similar to someone knowing very innately I'm a morning person or I'm not a morning person. I'm much more of an evening person. Very similar. Right. It's your own rhythm. You know, what works best. But if we've never put attention to it or actually started to track, we wouldn't know. Right. So it can get to a point even where you know precisely. Oh, it's day 25. I know today I'm gonna. I might be really critical with myself and I might, you know, spiral a little bit in my head. Yeah, exactly. But then, you know, this, this again,

Speaker A: if you don't know, then you can't. You can't deal with it.

Speaker B: Right, exactly. So that's really the, the first layer I go through, uh, with menstruators is the Self awareness piece. How do you understand your own cycle? How do you experience your cycle? And how do your unique traits, personality or other things, cultural beliefs, belief systems, mindset systems. Right, how you were taught to have a cycle at home, perhaps, or in the workplace, how does that all influence your own experience of it? So that's the first layer. The second layer, once we've understand what is happening on a monthly basis, would be divided into three. So at first we have sync, which would be looking at. Okay, for example, I know I feel great, um, public speaking around ovulation. So I'm going to make sure that, that the public speaking things I have are around ovulation as a very basic 100. Uh, and one thing to do that would be the syncing piece. However, life is life and we can't just be syncing our entire life every day. Exactly, exactly. Right. That's not, it's just not possible. Also, that shouldn't be the aim. That's not the aim of this. And uh, we're only synchronizing. So the second piece of that second layer would be to adjust. So, so if I know. So for example, me right now, I'm on day three. So, um, I'm menstruating right now. And ideally, in an ideal world, would I be doing a podcast? Maybe not, but that's okay because I have this information for myself and I know from years of experience, I know that on day three I might feel still low energy, I might be a bit more hungry, there might be some doubts or a bit of brain fog, but I know this. So I can adjust, I can sleep more, I went to bed earlier yesterday for this podcast. Or I can adjust, right, because I have this information. And then the third piece of that second layer would be to prepare. Not only can I adjust in the moment right now with you, Matt, but also I was able to prepare because this was in the diary for a long time. So I knew I have a podcast and I know I'll be around my period. Of course, you never know exactly. But around my period, then what are the things I can put in place mentally, emotionally, physically, and also, uh, from a communication perspective so that I can still have the best possible experience regardless of, um, where I am in my cycle. And then the third layer would really be what I call cycle mastery. So it's not just understanding yourself or adjusting to the things that happen in your life with this information, but it's using the specific strengths no matter what you're doing. So really tapping into. Okay, I have a podcast on my period. So what is the unique strength of menstruation that I can bring into this podcast? It's reflection. It's more stillness. It's more authenticity, actually. It's less, uh, frantic, you know, social energy, but it's more, um, it's more grounded, and it's less bullshit, too. I'm gonna be talking, you know, more directly and more straight. And so it's. It's about finding the authentic energy that wants to come through in different times of the cycle. So that's why I call it psycho mastery. Like a. Like a ninja, you know, like mastering the energy and being able to channel whatever is there in that present moment.

Speaker A: I love it. And. And what are you. What are you seeing the results of some of these? So for the individuals themselves, like, when they're coming back to you after having implemented these three levels, where are you seeing them really see the most impact in their work or personal lives?

Speaker B: I think the main feedback is that you start to not just accept your whole self, but to really feel empowered every day, no matter where you are. Because before, uh, doing a lot of menstrual cycle work, what I hear is, like we said, right? I wish I didn't have a cycle or another common one is why can't I feel like I feel on ovulation every single day? Why is ovulation energy only maybe two days? Why can't this spread across the whole month? And then by the end of it, with that cycle mastery piece, it's wow. Like, why have I been only accepting this highly social, highly productive, highly superwoman energy of myself? Why am I denying these more reflective parts? Or, um, for example, in luteal phase, sometimes it can be very confronting. It can be very, um, no bullshit, very decisive. Very like a mirror into your life of what's working, what isn't working. But at the end of that, we start to see those as wow. My body and my mind are actually helping me here. They're helping me, um, refine my life. They're helping me become more authentic. They're helping me express my needs more authentically as well. And so, um, there's the transformation of loving your whole self, all of the pieces, um, rather than just wanting to be one, one, one version of ourselves? So that's really. I would see the biggest transformation.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'd imagine you would have people come back and it would just be a total game changer for them in terms of, um, you know, even things as. Well, I was going to say as basic. But, you know, even things around how they feel throughout a week or a month. Um, yeah, their output. I mean, just the fact that you're, I guess, in a lot of ways, giving them, um. I'm sure they feel like they're gaining control over something that probably felt like it was controlling them for a long time. Um, yeah, I can imagine there's a lot of positivity that comes from implementing a program like this. Um, all right, so that's. I mean, that's an incredible, I guess, overview of, like, how this can have an impact for the person. Let's talk about the opportunity for workforces. Um, I obviously work in the compensation space, so, you know, where I see things like, um, gender gaps show up is on pay. You know, obviously we talk about things like motherhood penalties. We talk about, um, I just mentioned before glass ceilings. You know, what's the opportunity, do you think, for workforces in embracing and adopting, you know, some of these practices, even at just an awareness, like a language level, kind of bringing in out of that taboo. But. But as far as actually running programs that help people, um, you know, collectively benefit from some of the things that we've talked about today.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I want to say on this is, you know, I was just. I was just at a conference on Friday, um, and it was all about women's health and including this conversation, you know, much more widely, because it's so necessary and still in that kind of environment, we touched on. Okay, but businesses want to see what the impact is on the money, right? Tell me about the money. Where is the money? Right. So this is what I think is the most interesting with the menstrual cycle conversation, is that we can. We actually can tap into this. Because imagine, Matt, I'm telling you, maybe you. You run a team, um, of 20 individuals, and maybe half of them are women. I can tell you that you are not getting the full potential of those women. Uh, because we're not talking about the menstrual cycle. If the menstrual cycle isn't part of the conversation, uh, we have wasted potential. We have untapped potential. Because like we said, with those unique strengths, there's times where someone will feel much more confident and much more comfortable communicating, or there's times where someone will be so good at spotting flaws or giving feedback or understanding, you know, what, what. What might be better in a certain project. And there's times where someone might be incredible at brainstorming and creating new ideas. Right? So, because we're not thinking about it in those terms, in those ways there's so much untapped uh, potential in, in this, in this regard. So that's, that's from kind of you know one, uh, that's one piece of the picture. But I think the main aspect here is um. Wait, what, what exactly was your question again?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, it was just around like what's the opportunity for businesses. But I think like, you know, some of the things that again already coming to mind for me is like, you know, whether or not we've achieved it is another thing. But we spend so much time um, companies all around the world trying to broaden representation in you know, in tech it's in the organization in general. But in other industries we're trying to broaden representation at you know, uh, the top of the, the org chart, things like that, which we're trying to see um, you know, more female participation in a lot of ways. So your point around like the impact is tangible makes so much sense when against your point, you know, two seconds ago is that you're not getting 100% of, of the female workforce because of the taboo, because of the lack of awareness that um, either the organization or each of these individuals has around what the menstrual cycle is, how it can be used, how they can adapt to it, how they can control it. Um, so yeah, it really does not surprise me at all that there's a lot of benefits and a lot of upside for business tier. But please continue in terms of where you're seeing some of this land for businesses that you're working with.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know there's an interesting. There's not much research.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because we're still in the, in the infancy of stage. Uh, yeah, we're still in taboo, which, which doesn't help the research that there is, but there is some. And there's. There was an interesting report by uh, Deloitte last year that looked at supporting women through hormonal transitions. Whether that was pregnancy, perimenopause, menopause, menstrual cycle, et cetera. So it's more the broader um, realm. But women who felt seen and supported through these hormonal transitions were 60% more likely to stay in the business and stay long term. And what we're also seeing is that women uh, feel like uh, when there is this psychological safety around these topics as well, there is less burnout and there is higher engagement and higher innovation. So these are actual tangible facts that we can, that we can speak to. So the business case really is. It's obvious. Right. But I Think in terms of bringing this conversation more into businesses is okay, how can we translate this, how can we use language that is understandable in a business to bring this in? Right. So I think a great example is the product and tech language. We use very similar language already, but we're only adapted to our processes or our um, our products. Right. So, so agile is a great example of the exact phases of the menstrual cycle that happen. Right. And you've got the retro, you've got the planning, you've got all of the specific phases. But we're only talking about it in terms of production, right, of producing something or um, creating a product or innovating on a team for example. But we can bring this same language if we all in a company are already familiar with the agile language. Language. Okay, let's use that comparison to the menstrual cycle, for example. Another way that businesses uh, incorporate it is using the seasons. So if we feel uncomfortable saying menstruation or period or that's not something that you know, still feels taboo or feels scary to mention. Okay, A great, again analogy or metaphor, uh, are the seasons. So menstruation being winter, follicular being spring, ovulation being summer, luteal being autumn. Again very big generalizations, but it adds a language and something easier to grasp that is not just um, the actual technical terms and telling everyone you're ovulating in the office, for example, which might be very uncomfortable. Um, so finding the language that we are already comfortable sharing and starting to speak in those terms. And of course I do want to caveat. If you don't want to share anything, you should never be forced or feel that you have to share. Right. I think that's a no brainer here. But I do want to mention it because again in some parts of the world you would be punished for sharing this information. So I do want to caveat that. But if you feel that there is an environment where you can talk about brings so much knowledge. Right. Because for example if I am, if I, if I have a team and I know that Becky is in her ovulation and that Sarah uh, is in her luteal and that I'm on my period. I know. Okay, cool. So Becky can maybe present the meeting that we're doing. Sarah um, can give us feedback afterwards because she's going to be especially, you know, uh, on top of her, you know, attention to detail and feedback giving abilities. And I can maybe take notes and reflect afterwards and do the retro as an example. Right. So we're already implementing the different unique strengths that are happening on a team level. That's definitely, you know, where we want to get to. I think we're still in the demystifying stage. I think we're still in the very, in the taboo, demystifying the menstrual cycle stage. But yes, how can we bring the language that's already comfortable, that we're already using into those same systems?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think I was thinking as you were saying that it's not great that we have to hide the language, but I also respect and appreciate that in a period of transition we want to try and make it something that people are more aware of and more comfortable with. And even if they're not talking about it directly, they start to develop an understanding even if they're not using the words and language. I'd imagine you would see the same thing with, um, you know, employee resource groups or something like that. You know, I'm assuming they're probably mostly going to be participated in by females. But what do you think needs to happen for us to start getting these kinds of conversations and these sorts of changes to be happening in whether it's the C suite or the boardroom or you know, these sorts of places so that really the whole company can be aware of this and be respectful of it and understanding of it and adjust when needed. Um, but also give that, you know, that space and that safety for ovulating members of staff to, you know, to yeah. Just be in a better place for themselves.

Speaker B: Mhm, mhm. I think, you know, as we've been mentioning, the first, you know, what I always do with companies as the first layer is that self and other awareness. Right. So I think that's also a key piece here that, that the conversations that have been happening around the menstrual cycle have been very gendered, I think have been in women's spaces only, which is great. Fantastic. However, to really move the needle, we need everyone involved. Right. It cannot just be one group of people discussing a topic. It really does need to be everyone because that's how we create change. That's how we all benefit from the same information. Right. So, so the first piece in companies is what even is a menstrual cycle? Like we're talking basics, right. Because none of us are ever taught that. So opening that space up for conversation to learn, demystifying what it is and what it isn't and hearing other people's experiences and doing that in an all gender inclusive, um, environment and that can already move the needle Massively the times. I've done workshops in companies and, and in communities where everyone is involved. The men especially at the end of it, go, wow, I had no idea this was all happening, uh, uh, like this. The amount of times that I hear this, I had no idea there was all these ebbs and flows and that people are suffering at this time or suffering at this other time, or that they feel amazing at this time and feel unstoppable at this other time. So, so the first piece is really just opening the conversation and hearing each other and understanding how others feel, and then for the people that are going through it, to feel seen and to feel heard and not to feel judged. So that's really that, that first, um, layer that we need to uncover. And I really do mention this because you mentioned policy very briefly in the beginning, but I want to bring this back because in Spain, for example, it's the first country in the world that offers menstrual leave. Three days, Three days, two or three days per month. Legally, you can take menstrual leave, Matt. No one takes it.

Speaker A: Uh, this is what I. Before, right?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, no one takes it because the taboo is still so ripe. The culture hasn't shifted. The policy shifted way before the culture did. And so this is, I think, a great example for businesses too, because. Because folks may be listening, might be like, okay, we'll implement a, uh, menstrual leave policy. There we go. We've done. Won't do anything. It won't have an effect unless the company culture is also at that level. If your company culture is at that level, the menstrual leave will be fantastic. Great, implement it. But it really needs to be up to par with how the psychological safety and the culture is at the company as well. So that's why I always start with demystifying before anything else.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a really good call, I think. Um, I saw a similar thing happen in Australia. We have, um, domestic violence leave. And I think it's a very similar thing here where a lot of people choose not to access it when they need it most because of the stigma and because the leave has been labeled, um, it reduces people's likelihood of using it, and there's other debates around it, but I think you're so right. And I guess the risk there then is that businesses do this thinking they're offering something that their people want and then see such low uptake and go, oh, well, this obviously wasn't a problem. That's the real risk, right? Is that no one's having the conversation. No one therefore feels safe enough to take it and then therefore it potentially gets taken away.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And I think Canva actually is a great example of doing it beautifully. I believe they have a policy that's just um, like leave. Yeah. And it could be sick, it could be menstrual, it could be mental health, it could be bereavement.

Speaker A: Like your best, this guy, you know,

Speaker B: And I think, think how, how fabulous is that? Right? Because then you don't also don't have to uh, explain yourself.

Speaker A: It's definitely a good way to. Yeah, I agree. Like it's a good way to avoid having raised the level of awareness and conversation in the meantime. But you know, obviously there's still value and importance to having it. I'm really curious as ah, as we sort of draw this conversation to the close, it's been full of so much insight. Um, I'm really curious what you're seeing at a generational um, level. Like you know, again I spend a lot of time looking at pay and pay. Transparency is obviously, you know, it was and in some respects is still a taboo thing. Um, but the differences that I see across generations in appetite and interest and um, comfort with patrons, parents. Are you seeing similar splits across generations? Are you seeing younger generations, um, be much more open, be much more comfortable, um, have higher awareness, any of those sorts of things?

Speaker B: Yeah, as well, a, um, little bit. So I like, I had the bias that they would be like, uh, you know, completely um, knowledgeable about this already. I thought, you know, the next generations won't even have to go through this. But I've actually recently been working with a mentorship program here in Barcelona and it's all 18 to 25 year olds and I, and I started mentioning the topic and to my surprise, um, it's actually not as, as, as um, spoken about or well known as I, I, I thought it would and, and perhaps might be because of Instagram and TikTok and you know, the availability of knowledge that there is today that we didn't have. So again it really shows that it is still very taboo. There is more information. We talk, we talk about it more freely. That's for sure. There is more conversation. But again, back to our uh, what we were saying in the beginning, it's still around. Oh fuck, I have my son on my period. This is so annoying. Or you know, so there is a, there is more conversation. There's, we're talking about pcos, more endometriosis et cetera. Much, much more. But, but we still have a long way to go and I speak to a lot of um, um, mothers of teenagers. This has been again similar feedback I keep getting that they go, please speak to, speak to my, my daughter's year because you know, they're really suffering or they don. And so I think we're moving along but so much work to be done still.

Speaker A: Well, I think um, it's amazing to see the work that you're doing. I think it's. Yeah. This has been so insightful. I'm sure there's going to be lots of people that are listening and also finding this incredibly.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Just like full of either new knowledge and information and again raising that level of awareness and respect, um, and understanding of what others are going through or helping them better understand themselves and how they can and you know, how they can uh, yeah, just take control of something like this. So thank you so much for being on, on the pod. Is there any, I guess anything you, anything else you want to leave anyone with? Is there any final tip or anything like that before you wrap things up?

Speaker B: I think, you know, I guess the, the final thing is, is we've spoken today just about the menstrual cycle. Right. But there are so many other, you know, experiences too. There's people that are on hormonal contraceptive or on non hormonal contraceptive. There's people that don't have a menstrual cycle. There's people that don't have a uterus is. There's people that are in perimenopause. There's people that are in menopause.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So there's so many other experiences we just spoke about. Very specific. Uh, but treaty we may get a fraction of them today. So I do want to mention that there's so many other experiences. So when we talk about this in a work context to also include all of these other experiences and in the same frameworks, right. Of um, self, self awareness, other awareness and then continuing on that journey but realizing that the body, the body comes to the workplace and the body is experiencing whatever it is experiencing at that point in time in your life. So opening that conversation, if someone wants to. Again, if someone wants to, they have the choice to also not share or not talk about it. Um, yeah, my, my parting words.

Speaker A: Well, sage advice. So thank you so much for jumping on and uh, yeah, thanks for being a part of this us.

Speaker B: Thank you so much, Matt. It's been wonderful.

Speaker A: Thanks for joining us on another edition of the foundation series. Make sure to head over to our website to subscribe to the foundation series for monthly editions featuring future interviews on startup compensation. In each edition, we'll explore the different strategies, trends and challenges faced by startups around the world. If you have a burning topic you'd like me to cover, or a standout guest that you want to hear from, drop me an email so I can dive deeper, uh, into the compensation topics that matter most to you. Join me next time as we continue to uncover the strategies and practices driving success in global tech startups around the world. Thanks for listening.