Agentic AI Can Make You Eight Times More Productive If You Learn To Verify It with Jason Greenwood

1 - > SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast, a 2 - > show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. 3 - > If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you are capable of 4 - > more, then join us. 5 - > This show will help you build a business and grow your passive 6 - > income stream in just a few short hours per day. 7 - > And now your hosts, serial entrepreneurs, David Schoma and 8 - > Ken Wilson.

9 - > SPEAKER_01: Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast. 10 - > Today's guest is Jason Greenwood, the founder of 11 - > Greenwood Consulting and the host of the E-Commerce Edge 12 - > Podcast. 13 - > Jason has spent more than 25 years helping brands, 14 - > manufacturers, distributors, and e-commerce businesses navigate 15 - > digital transformation. 16 - > Today we'll discuss the future of e-commerce, AI, digital 17 - > transformation, and what business owners need to know to 18 - > stay relevant in an increasingly automated world.

19 - > Jason, welcome to the show. 20 - > SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me. 21 - > I you know I had you on my podcast recently, so it's always 22 - > fun to do a bit of a pod swap. 23 - > SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.

24 - > So to uh give a little introduction, what to share with 25 - > the audience a little bit about yourself and your path in the 26 - > e-commerce world. 27 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look, this is my 26th year. 28 - > I, you know, for for I'm in r at risk of dating myself, I 29 - > realize, but it's my 26th year in e-commerce started in in 30 - > 2000. 31 - > So, you know, one of the old heads, so to speak, have a few 32 - > uh gray hairs to show for the pleasure.

33 - > But, you know, it's been an amazing ride. 34 - > You know, I am old enough, you know, I'm 51, and so I remember 35 - > when there was no internet. 36 - > Uh, you know, I'm that I'm kind of in that bridge generation 37 - > where I was old enough when the internet came along that I could 38 - > embrace it immediately, and I remember doing so. 39 - > I remember, you know, a world pre-internet.

40 - > I remember the coming of the internet, I remember the 41 - > mainstreaming of the internet, and now I have been able to 42 - > witness the mainlining of the internet with uh devices like 43 - > this right here in my hot little hand. 44 - > And so it's been quite the ride. 45 - > You know, started out uh in agency land, uh also owned my 46 - > own e-commerce pure play business with a business partner 47 - > many, many years ago, ran that for seven years, went back into 48 - > agency land, have worked brandside managing e-commerce, 49 - > and for the last nearly seven years, I've owned my own B2B 50 - > e-commerce specific consultancy and advisory service, and I work 51 - > with manufacturers, distributors, agencies, platform 52 - > vendors, and investors all in the B2B e-commerce space.

53 - > And it's been a it's been a wild ride, it's been a fun ride, it's 54 - > given me a life and friendships that I could have only dreamt 55 - > about 26 years ago. 56 - > Can't imagine doing anything else. 57 - > You know, I get to be a digital nomad. 58 - > My wife and I love to travel.

59 - > We don't have kids, so you know, being able to work remotely, 60 - > we've always been able to work remotely uh in our digital 61 - > space, but especially since COVID, there's there's you know, 62 - > none of my clients have any expectation that they're ever 63 - > going to see me in person. 64 - > Now, sometimes they do. 65 - > If I happen to be in region or they want me to come on site and 66 - > do a presentation or something like that, then we can make that 67 - > happen.

68 - > But but typically I'm working with my clients all remotely, 69 - > and the amount of freedom that that gives me and my wife to 70 - > travel and do things abroad is just so, so exciting. 71 - > So this industry has been exceptionally good to me. 72 - > I try to put out content every single day. 73 - > You know, I release three podcast episodes a week, put out 74 - > content across LinkedIn and Substack and all sorts of other 75 - > channels every day in an effort to sort of send the ladder back 76 - > down again.

77 - > Because when I first started in this industry, I had three or 78 - > four people that really took me under their wing, taught me 79 - > everything that they know, helped bring me into the 80 - > industry, help bring me up in the industry, and help give me 81 - > an education and get me started on the right foot in the 82 - > industry. 83 - > And that's what I really try to do today is to try to give back 84 - > to the industry every way that I can. 85 - > I'm the global MC for all of the B2B e-commerce world events, and 86 - > I try to speak at as many events globally as I can.

87 - > And, you know, that's just really you know, it's it's it's 88 - > my way. 89 - > Uh it's it's it's like my love letter back to an industry 90 - > that's treated me super well over the last 26 years. 91 - > SPEAKER_01: I really, I really like that. 92 - > And and uh for anyone who hasn't listened, check out the 93 - > e-commerce edge podcast.

94 - > I was a fan of yours long before we podcasted together. 95 - > So uh really excited to have you on the show and excited to get 96 - > into this. 97 - > So one thing I think that's very impressive about your your 98 - > resume is your tenure in the industry. 99 - > There's not many people.

100 - > I mean, you know, twenty you can't get much longer than 101 - > twenty-five years. 102 - > The internet hasn't been around that that long. 103 - > And so um what are, you know, if you if you go back to you know 104 - > 25 years ago uh versus today, what have been some of the most 105 - > significant changes that you've witnessed and what do you think 106 - > is still ahead? 107 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's there's three or four that 108 - > absolutely stand out to me and like there's specific, maybe 109 - > foundational or core memories of things happening that I could 110 - > sort of waypoints along the way that have led to a pattern 111 - > recognition that now I can sort of overlay over things like AI 112 - > and things like that, and I can start to recognize some of these 113 - > ground shifts that happen in our industry and have happened over 114 - > the last couple of decades.

115 - > The first one is is broadband for sure. 116 - > Like there was always, you know, I I remember dial-up and I 117 - > remember getting kicked off of phone calls when you know you 118 - > needed to use dial-up or phone call would come in and it would 119 - > kick you off the internet uh you know, when a phone call came in 120 - > and you were already on dial-up and and having to share a f a 121 - > phone line, you know, with a with a phone call. 122 - > And so like most people today who you know were mature or old 123 - > enough to use the internet in the last decade, they just uh 124 - > they don't really appreciate how challenging things were in in 125 - > the early days.

126 - > Like everything was hard. 127 - > Like I used to build you know websites on Dreamweaver, and I 128 - > used to, you know, uh just like everything about the internet 129 - > was hard. 130 - > I remember the days of frames. 131 - > I remember like the early days of web technologies.

132 - > I remember entire websites being built in flash and not being 133 - > able to be indexed by Google. 134 - > I remember, I remember when we were all before there were like 135 - > the standards of the internet, like HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, 136 - > we were all still trying to figure this out. 137 - > We were trying to figure out secure payments. 138 - > I remember in my first, you know, early days of running an 139 - > e-commerce business, there was no really easy to implement 140 - > payment gateways.

141 - > And so uh your bank was your your business bank was your 142 - > merchant provider. 143 - > They provided your merchant account. 144 - > And so you had zip zap machines that were given to you, and then 145 - > and then for online transactions, they would give 146 - > you a line sheet where you would have to capture credit card 147 - > details from your customer. 148 - > You would have to manually write down the details of the 149 - > transaction, the credit card number that you had captured, 150 - > and then you would ring up their automated phone number at the 151 - > bank and get a transaction approval number for every single 152 - > credit card transaction that you took as an online business.

153 - > And then you would submit that as a bank deposit, that whole 154 - > entire sheet, which had like 50 lines on it. 155 - > You would fold that up into thirds, you would hand that over 156 - > to the counter at your bank, and that would go in as a deposit, 157 - > right? 158 - > With with all the approvals. 159 - > And it would take two weeks before you could even s access 160 - > those funds, right?

161 - > And so, like, just literally everything about the internet 162 - > and e-commerce was difficult in the beginning. 163 - > And uh, you know, that taught us all a lot about patience, that 164 - > taught us all a lot uh about how to work with Google, who kind of 165 - > owned the internet in the beginning. 166 - > And if you wanted to be discovered as a business, you 167 - > had to get indexed by Google and you had to go into link swap uh 168 - > and link indexes, and you had to do, you know, some gray hat SEO 169 - > work to be able to get ahead in those early days, and you had to 170 - > be quite technical because everything about SEO back in the 171 - > early days was technical.

172 - > It was all technical SEO. 173 - > So you had to understand, you know, you had to understand all 174 - > of your meta tagging, you had to understand uh the structure of 175 - > HTML, you had to understand robots.txt files. 176 - > Like you, you, you, you, you, none of this stuff was if you 177 - > were non-technical, you uh you found it really difficult to do 178 - > well online back in those early days.

179 - > Now, obviously, since then, we've had Shopify and we've had 180 - > other platforms come along that have made it super easy to stand 181 - > up a new e-commerce website and get up and running in 24 hours 182 - > or less, right? 183 - > With their own payment gateway and everything. 184 - > And so uh the the first real big change came when when broadband 185 - > came along. 186 - > And when it became mainstream, that now all of a sudden we 187 - > could do, you know, because when I first moved to New Zealand 188 - > from the United States in my early 20s, net to phone was a 189 - > big thing.

190 - > Like phone calls internationally were super expensive. 191 - > They were between 25 cents and a dollar a minute to make an 192 - > international phone call back in the day. 193 - > So a lot of us use what's called net-to-phone, which is an 194 - > application that you could use on your computer, and it would 195 - > cost you like two cents a minute. 196 - > It had a digital wallet, you could load up 50 bucks on your 197 - > digital wallet, and then it was a VO very early version of VOIP, 198 - > and you could call people all over the world, computer to 199 - > computer, and it and it was it was pennies, you know, compared 200 - > to an international phone call.

201 - > But I tell you, when you were trying to do that on dial-up, 202 - > very difficult, very, very difficult. 203 - > You would lose a connection, you would have massive duplexing 204 - > issues. 205 - > And then once broadband became became mainstream, all of a 206 - > sudden that it all just worked. 207 - > And and it was the same with even e-commerce websites.

208 - > They would take forever to load on dial-up. 209 - > Now all of a sudden, once you had broadband, they would they 210 - > would load what felt like almost instantaneously. 211 - > Obviously, YouTube came along on the back of broadband internet. 212 - > So broadband, first big change to the internet, right?

213 - > And and all of a sudden now you had parallel lines. 214 - > You could be online and use your telephone, your landline phone 215 - > at the same time. 216 - > Big change. 217 - > Big, big change.

218 - > Then mobile. 219 - > I remember uh distinctly that Nokia had their proprietary WAP 220 - > browser on their very, very early quote unquote smartphones. 221 - > And uh I remember a friend of mine had, I think it was the 222 - > 8910. 223 - > I think that was the model.

224 - > It was like the latest and greatest, uh, it was like a 225 - > $2,000 phone. 226 - > And this was way back in the day. 227 - > So this is this is like the equivalent of a$10,000 phone 228 - > today. 229 - > And I remember him showing me on this LCD screen this WAP browser 230 - > that he could connect to the internet with and he could load 231 - > web pages with.

232 - > Now it was only like a one-inch by one inch square screen, but I 233 - > remember thinking at the time, this is a crap experience now, 234 - > but this changes everything forever. 235 - > It literally changes everything forever. 236 - > Because if we can we can now do internet things on these phones, 237 - > wow, game changer. 238 - > Don't don't necessarily need a laptop, don't necessarily need a 239 - > desktop anymore.

240 - > Now we can do stuff online from the palm of our hand. 241 - > And I and I just knew it was gonna get better. 242 - > And then I remember uh when the first iPhone 3G came out, I was 243 - > like, okay, now this is the next because I because I had at the 244 - > time that the iPhone 3G came out out of Blackberry Pearl. 245 - > And uh and I remember thinking this is a step change in the way 246 - > that we are gonna interface with devices, everything being 247 - > touchscreen, it is an absolute game changer, right?

248 - > Um and then we we we we obviously had to build mobile 249 - > websites for these new mobile browsers. 250 - > And so I remember the M Dot Revolution revolution, right? 251 - > Because before everything was mobile responsive, we built 252 - > dedicated websites or apps for mobile uh instead of just having 253 - > everything be responsive based on uh on viewport. 254 - > And that that fad of M Dot websites, custom, completely 255 - > custom mobile websites, lasted for about 18 months.

256 - > And then all of a sudden we got religion about uh you know about 257 - > responsive websites, and all of a sudden now you just you just 258 - > accessed it through whatever device you had, whether it was a 259 - > tablet, a smartphone, or or a computer, right? 260 - > Um so so those have been like the biggest, um definitely 261 - > game-changing milestones I can think of as we went through the 262 - > internet and as the as the phone became the remote control of our 263 - > lives.

264 - > And then and then latterly, uh, you know, this there's two other 265 - > things that have really been game changers. 266 - > One is is that retail e-commerce has always been five to ten 267 - > years ahead of B2B e-commerce for manufacturers and 268 - > distributors. 269 - > And that's because in the B2B world, uh all relationships tend 270 - > to be long-term relationships, and they all tend to be based on 271 - > belly-to-belly selling, physical person-to-person selling, right?

272 - > A sales rep going and knocking on doors, meeting people, 273 - > building relationships, building out price lists, etc. 274 - > And and so the the entire B2B industry has been very reticent 275 - > because of their complexity and because of their people-first 276 - > nature, they've been really reticent to adopt e-commerce 277 - > technology, and more importantly, i uh business 278 - > leaders have found it difficult to reconcile, okay, low-cost 279 - > customer acquisition and sales processes done digitally, and 280 - > how do we compensate sales teams for transactions that come 281 - > through digital channels?

282 - > Like, should we comp you know compensate them equally uh 283 - > through physical and digital channels? 284 - > Should we compensate them more or less for digital sales? 285 - > And there's been this tension between leadership and them 286 - > wanting digital enablement and sales teams being really 287 - > resistant to digital enablement because they see that as the 288 - > robots replacing them, right? 289 - > And so uh, you know, but I've I've seen that change radically 290 - > over the last few years that I've worked in this space and 291 - > and you know, everybody's getting religious about digital, 292 - > even in the B2B world, because you know, there's not a sales 293 - > rep alive that likes doing manual admin work.

294 - > There's just they just don't like it. 295 - > And so and it and it doesn't put uh that manual admin work does 296 - > not put any more commission in their back pocket. 297 - > And so uh, you know, and and in our research with all of our 298 - > clients, for the B2B businesses that measure uh activity by task 299 - > with their sales teams, anywhere from 20 to 60% of a sales rep's 300 - > time is spent on unproductive admin that adds no value to them 301 - > or their customer.

302 - > And so things like going out and taking an order in the field and 303 - > then come back and keying it into an ERP system. 304 - > So what we know is that is that for the B2Bs that track uh you 305 - > know sales reps time by activity, we know that most of 306 - > it is unproductive time. 307 - > And so that's what I'm here to do in the B2B world is to give 308 - > B2B businesses superpowers and to give sales reps superpowers 309 - > and to take away all the crap that they don't want to do 310 - > anyway.

311 - > And so those have been some big things, and and the adoption of 312 - > e-commerce within the B2B world is accelerating very, very 313 - > rapidly now. 314 - > It's outstripping B2C and D2C e-commerce growth by about seven 315 - > or eight to one, and it's looking to be that way till at 316 - > least 2030. 317 - > Only about 40 to 60 percent of the B2Bs in the United States 318 - > today offer e-commerce at all, whereas like 98% of retailers 319 - > offer e-commerce today in the United States, so it's there's 320 - > there's not as much greenfield work anymore in in retail 321 - > e-commerce.

322 - > It's a lot of incumbency there that you have to unseat to win 323 - > new deals in B2C. 324 - > B2B not the case. 325 - > B2B, it's still blue ocean as far as the eye can see, and it's 326 - > it's looking to be that way for many years to come. 327 - > So it's been an exciting ride, but the the obviously the latest 328 - > trend that some people thought was just going to be a 329 - > short-term fad.

330 - > But the thing that has turned into a trend is absolutely AI, 331 - > touching everything to do with our industry. 332 - > And uh, you know, it's it's not that I was ever not excited 333 - > about our industry, but it is is given me even more excitement, 334 - > even more to look forward to. 335 - > It is it has reinvigorated me, and I'm as excited to be in 336 - > e-commerce today as I have ever been, especially with AI and the 337 - > and the and the and the tooling that we have available to us 338 - > today is world-class, and it it is so exciting to be able to 339 - > 10x.

340 - > I I just ran a report uh just yet just yesterday. 341 - > I ran a report on some of the tasks that I had done with AI 342 - > over the last, say, two months. 343 - > And on average, on average, uh ranging anywhere from sort of 2x 344 - > more productive to 20x more productive, I I am about eight 345 - > times more productive on those tasks that uh I use an AI 346 - > co-pilot to assist with uh than doing it 100% on my own. 347 - > So that level of productivity gain is just phenomenal, and I 348 - > expect that to accelerate in my own business as I continue to 349 - > automate back office, uh, back office workflows.

350 - > SPEAKER_01: Outstanding. 351 - > Uh, let's go in the direction of AI because it's a really hot 352 - > topic right now, and and I don't know if this has been true for 353 - > you. 354 - > When I I had thought maybe AI is gonna de decrease the amount of 355 - > hours I work per day. 356 - > And what I found is that's not the case.

357 - > Uh, it is almost as if I'm like playing professional sports with 358 - > a bunch of steroids. 359 - > I can be so much more productive, I can do so much 360 - > more work, and and I'm enjoying it more. 361 - > I I really am. 362 - > And so um curious, have you had that experience and and what are 363 - > some practical things that uh e-commerce business owners can 364 - > do with AI to help make them more productive?

365 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a hundred percent. 366 - > Like I'm doing the same, you know, I like I I I probably work 367 - > on average four hours a day on client work, and then the other 368 - > four to six hours a day is on content. 369 - > I still spend eight to ten hours a week on on content, uh, as I 370 - > have done for the last decade. 371 - > Uh, and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon because I 372 - > just love being a creator and it it it's it's it's an outlet for 373 - > my creative passion.

374 - > And you know, I but but what the amount of work and the amount of 375 - > client work that I can get done in that same four-hour span is 376 - > is eight to 10x, right? 377 - > And it also helps me to automate processes that are have 378 - > historically been very manual and very painful in my business. 379 - > So I use I prime I I use lots of different AI tooling every day 380 - > from Gemini to Grok to lots of different tooling in my 381 - > enterprise software and every everything else.

382 - > But the the agentic platform that I have really truly fallen 383 - > in love with and used to automate most things in my 384 - > business over the last six months is Manaus. 385 - > And it is it has allowed me to create agenc workflows in the 386 - > platform that are just mind-blowing in in like it's 387 - > like having an analyst on staff at all times. 388 - > It is like having a PA and EA on staff at all times. 389 - > I can send it off in five different tabs, and it's it 390 - > what's it really interesting about MANIS is it will spool up 391 - > as many parallel agentic workflows as it thinks it needs 392 - > to do a task.

393 - > So it will it will break down a task that I give it into all the 394 - > subtasks that it logically thinks it should break down a 395 - > task into and then spool up uh virtual machines and agents 396 - > within each of those virtual machines to go and go and do 397 - > research on the internet or to draft a document or to create a 398 - > spreadsheet or whatever. 399 - > It break it it it I don't have to tell it how to break down a 400 - > singular task into a gen of agentic subtasks, it does all 401 - > that for me.

402 - > Uh and it and it breaks it down in the most efficient, you know, 403 - > bite-sized chunked subtasks as necessary to get things done as 404 - > fast and efficiently as possible. 405 - > And and I tell you the amount of time savings that that has done 406 - > for me, like I I create the boundaries, I create the the 407 - > brief for the task, I tell it exactly what I want, I tell it 408 - > what type of research I need, I tell it what type of citations I 409 - > need. 410 - > Like I give it all the I give it a good brief because because 411 - > like normally I would have to do this stuff myself, right?

412 - > And so I know exactly I know exactly what needs to be done, 413 - > but then I also am smart enough to realize that maybe it has 414 - > things that it can do that I can't do, and maybe it will 415 - > think of things. 416 - > So I say, is this the most efficient way? 417 - > Or am is there something I'm missing here? 418 - > So I use it as a thought partner as much as an execution partner.

419 - > And and I have even, one of the things that I've done with it 420 - > recently that has made me completely revisit how I price 421 - > and position my business in the market, I I I gave it a task. 422 - > I said, look, I said, here's my profile, here's my profile page 423 - > on my website. 424 - > I'm 51 years old, here's my goals, here's where I want to be 425 - > in five years, whatever. 426 - > And if you were me, how would you structure your business?

427 - > How would you would you even be doing what I do now? 428 - > How would you, if if the goals are these three or four things, 429 - > what would you do with my profile and my experience and 430 - > and how would you build a a business to achieve these 431 - > outcomes? 432 - > And it came back to me and it and it gave me a list, like a 433 - > really, really detailed, well-cited, well-reasoned list 434 - > of ways that it would change what I do to make it more 435 - > productive, to uh monetize it better, to to create more 436 - > freedom in my life, et cetera, et cetera.

437 - > And and probably half, greater than half of those 438 - > recommendations I'm gonna be executing on over the next six 439 - > months. 440 - > So as a thought partner and an execution partner, uh you know, 441 - > agentic AI is just phenomenal. 442 - > It is really phenomenal. 443 - > SPEAKER_01: I I I really like that, and I really like those 444 - > examples.

445 - > One thing that uh prompt engineering is a relatively new 446 - > term with AI, and and um you had it was very simple, but uh is 447 - > this sufficient or how can I make this more efficient? 448 - > And and I really like that. 449 - > Um I'm curious, are there any other prompts that you find 450 - > yourself coming back to? 451 - > Um yeah, for instance, one of my favorites is ask me 10 questions 452 - > one at a time and then give me your output.

453 - > And that instead of being bombarded with 10 questions, um, 454 - > it asks me number one, and whatever I say number one 455 - > informs what question number two is. 456 - > And so I I've really liked that. 457 - > But any any prompts that you're using and you find yourself 458 - > using it on a uh pretty frequent basis? 459 - > Yeah, what am I missing?

460 - > SPEAKER_02: That that is something what what what am I 461 - > missing in this thought process or in this task or in this 462 - > activity or this strategic approach? 463 - > What am I missing? 464 - > What am I not seeing here that I should be seeing? 465 - > What if it's a piece of content, what angles am I missing?

466 - > What you know, what uh sources am I missing? 467 - > What what am I not seeing? 468 - > What are my blind spots around this thing because I have 469 - > experience and I and I have assumptions based on that 470 - > experience? 471 - > What assumptions am I making that could be wrong that are 472 - > creating a blind spot in my thinking that you can 473 - > immediately identify?

474 - > And so, and so that that what am I missing line, or how would you 475 - > do this? 476 - > Uh you know, and and so for. 477 - > For example, I I have created a new um I have created a new 478 - > entirely new framework for scoring, summarizing, uh citing, 479 - > and doing data visualization for platform selection for my 480 - > clients. 481 - > And so I had I had an idea of what I wanted to achieve, but I 482 - > am not a a spreadsheet guru at all.

483 - > And I wanted to create some custom formulas to create some 484 - > certain scoring rubrics that I didn't know how to write those 485 - > formulas in a Google Sheet. 486 - > So I said, I said, here's what I want to achieve. 487 - > How should I do this? 488 - > And I'm gonna connect you to Google Workspace and I'm gonna 489 - > get you to create the spreadsheet.

490 - > I'm gonna create get you to create the scoring rubric. 491 - > I'm gonna create, get you to create the summary tab. 492 - > This is what I want to see in the summary tab, and I'm gonna 493 - > get you create create the data visualization tab. 494 - > You're gonna help me create the data visualizations, the charts, 495 - > the graphs, and everything else to visually represent what the 496 - > prior 10 tabs uh say.

497 - > And and and all the results we've come to. 498 - > We're gonna create a summary justification tab and we're 499 - > gonna create a data visualization tab. 500 - > Because I always believe in show-don't tell. 501 - > And it helped me over the span of a few hours, it helped me 502 - > completely create all of the data architecture, the formulas, 503 - > the summary tables, the data visualizations.

504 - > And I have went through the thought exercise even on the 505 - > data visualizations. 506 - > This is what I'm thinking. 507 - > What do you think? 508 - > How would this be more human consumable?

509 - > How could we, you know, how can we present this in a way that is 510 - > requires a lot less mental bandwidth than just looking at a 511 - > summary table of information? 512 - > Uh and and here's what I here's kind of the what I'm thinking. 513 - > What do you think? 514 - > What would you do if you were in my seat and you were delivering 515 - > this piece of work to a client?

516 - > What do you think would make this more palatable and more 517 - > valuable to the client if they were consuming this, right? 518 - > And and why? 519 - > Tell me, tell me why you think that. 520 - > Don't just tell me what to do, but and tell me how you're gonna 521 - > do it, but also tell me why.

522 - > What is the justification for for thinking that? 523 - > And then it and then it would cite resources, it would cite 524 - > research, it would like it's just it is you you you do have 525 - > to know what to ask, right? 526 - > But I think prompt engineering, so today, I know that a lot of 527 - > kids coming out of university and school, they're putting on 528 - > their CV, expert prompt engineer, et cetera. 529 - > I think give it another 12 or 18 months, it is going to be just 530 - > as ridiculous to put on your CV that you are an expert prompt 531 - > engineer as it would be today to say you're an expert Googler, 532 - > right?

533 - > I remember, I remember people applying for our to work at our 534 - > agency 20 plus years ago. 535 - > And I remember them on CV saying, I'm an expert Googler. 536 - > I can find anything on the internet, I can find any piece 537 - > of esoteric information on the internet, and I'm an expert at 538 - > that. 539 - > And and that was a valuable skill to have back in the day 540 - > when you, you know, you yes, you had Google, but to find the 541 - > needle in the haystack information was actually a 542 - > skill.

543 - > And it was, and it was query engineering, for lack of a 544 - > better term, back then, right? 545 - > And and and and refining queries to get the actual information 546 - > you get your hands on the actual information that you wanted, 547 - > right? 548 - > I remember, you know, trying to find uh abstracts for medical 549 - > research. 550 - > I remember trying to find abstracts from university 551 - > research that was on web servers that Google had access to back 552 - > then, but you had to know what terminology to use to get access 553 - > to this, to this hidden information, right?

554 - > That was publicly accessible, but you had to know how to query 555 - > it to get access to that information or to find it on a 556 - > web server somewhere. 557 - > So uh, you know, and that's prompt engineering today, right? 558 - > You you know, if you're an expert prompt engineer like I 559 - > think I am, I mean I've been doing this for two years now on 560 - > the on the trot, I'm pretty good at being able to get the results 561 - > from AI that I need. 562 - > But I I think give it another 12 or 18 months, and everybody's 563 - > gonna be an expert prompt engineer, at least in the tech 564 - > space, because you you if you use something every single day, 565 - > you quickly learn how to get the best out of it.

566 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I agree. 567 - > And there are things we're doing now that if you would have said 568 - > six or twelve months ago that this is going to be possible, I 569 - > would have said not a chance. 570 - > And so it's kind of fun to think about what the future is like. 571 - > It's changing so quickly.

572 - > And and so I'm curious, what you know, what resources, what 573 - > content, um, what are you consuming to continue to sharpen 574 - > your sword and and stay at the cutting edge of AI? 575 - > SPEAKER_02: Well, I spend about three hours a day, uh somewhere 576 - > between an hour and a half and three hours a day walking my 577 - > dogs, right? 578 - > I try to get out of the house. 579 - > And and the good thing about my dogs, they're both high energy.

580 - > One's a border collie cross and one's a Jack Russell Cross. 581 - > So they're they're both super high-energy dogs. 582 - > And if I don't get them out of the house at least twice a day, 583 - > they're climbing the walls. 584 - > And so it's it's very because I could easily sit in front of my 585 - > computer for eight hours a day and and and not even realize 586 - > that I've been sitting at the computer for eight hours.

587 - > It's that easy to do. 588 - > And so it's good that my dogs come and bother me uh several 589 - > times a day to go for a walk because otherwise I would just 590 - > be glued to my chair and it would not be healthy for my 591 - > mind, my eyes, my brain, or my heart or my body. 592 - > And so it is good to get them out. 593 - > And so I listen to a tremendous amount of podcasts when I'm 594 - > walking.

595 - > And everything from the operator's pod to specific AI 596 - > podcasts to financial podcasts to, you know, This Week in 597 - > Startups, to, you know, all in to, you know, I try to, I try to 598 - > live, I, you know, I have I have a I have a lot of high-end, high 599 - > thought comp uh, you know, comp uh podcasts on repeat uh that I 600 - > listen to every day that they have a new episode that comes 601 - > out. 602 - > I'm a religious uh follower of those podcasts.

603 - > And so I I try to have that coming in as kind of new, you 604 - > know, it really helps to prompt new thinking in new ways when 605 - > you're hearing the thought process that some of these 606 - > people are going through in their own businesses, in their 607 - > own content, in their own everything, and and also in 608 - > their own daily use of these tools. 609 - > Like they they highlight the things that they're learning 610 - > every day by using these tools. 611 - > And and so I'm like, oh, I'll go and try that.

612 - > I'm gonna go and try that in my own system, I'm gonna go and try 613 - > that in Manis, I'm gonna go and try that in Gemini, I'm gonna go 614 - > try that in Grok, I'm gonna go and you know, try that in 615 - > ChatGPT or whatever it is. 616 - > And so um that I I you know, since and Claude, I'm using 617 - > Claude Code, I'm using Lovable, you know, so I'm I'm using 618 - > coding agents, I'm using using answer agents, and I'm using 619 - > action agents every single day.

620 - > And it's it's man, as somebody who's a very, very, very 621 - > technical non-developer, the kind of stuff I've been able to 622 - > create using coding agents and using action agents is wild. 623 - > So I I needed to create for a client. 624 - > We had a we have a uh a whole entire architecture that I built 625 - > alongside one of my SI clients for a clo for an end client, and 626 - > there was a whole series of what we call KDDs or key design 627 - > decisions that they need to make uh across this entire 628 - > architecture before we can move forward with proof of concept 629 - > and a whole bunch of other things.

630 - > And uh there was about 32 key design decisions they would need 631 - > to make to move forward to the next phase of the engagement. 632 - > And we we we could have just dumped this all into a Google 633 - > Sheet or into a Confluence doc or something like that, and with 634 - > little drop-downs, and they could just they could just 635 - > select, right? 636 - > And maybe put some notes in there. 637 - > But we wanted to make this a more engaging experience.

638 - > And so we decided to build this out as a web app using uh Google 639 - > Apps Script. 640 - > And so I I told Manis what I wanted to do. 641 - > I connected it to my uh to my workspace and I said, look, this 642 - > is what I want to build, here's what I want it to look like. 643 - > We want sliders, we want some, we want radio buttons, we want 644 - > comment fields, we want drop downs, and we want all this 645 - > stuff, right?

646 - > Oh, and here's the raw data of the key design decisions we want 647 - > to put on this form, this really interactive form. 648 - > And I said, go build it, deploy the Google app script, uh, link 649 - > it to a Google Sheet on the back end to track and be able to 650 - > recall all the responses by email address uh of the because 651 - > on the client side, they had like three or four people that 652 - > needed to respond to these KDDs. 653 - > And we wanted to track who was providing the responses, what 654 - > decision they had made, and is this a high confidence or low 655 - > confidence decision or a final decision, right?

656 - > We want to track all that. 657 - > And and and in about less than 10 minutes, it had built it had 658 - > built the HTML front end form with all the JavaScript on the 659 - > front end, it had built the apps script to deploy it to the front 660 - > end, it had it it had created all of the logic in the back-end 661 - > Google Sheet, it created the Google Sheet, it had linked them 662 - > both together, and then it had deployed it to a URL where I 663 - > could test it.

664 - > unknown: Wow. 665 - > SPEAKER_02: Just phenomenal. 666 - > Just like, you know, and and I'm a non-developer, but I know what 667 - > the software development lifecycle looks like, so I know 668 - > how to create a really good brief. 669 - > And and uh and of course, because I'm a solution 670 - > architect, like I I I get how you have to speak the language 671 - > of a developer to get a good outcome.

672 - > And like just like if I had tried to do that manually with 673 - > some instruction list off of a website somewhere of how to do 674 - > it, like it would have probably taken me a day to do it. 675 - > Uh, but you know, uh using Manus as my co-pilot, 10 minutes, job 676 - > done, ready to test. 677 - > Boom, ready for me to test, and ready for me to surface to the 678 - > end customer. 679 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

680 - > Uh the yeah. 681 - > That's an incredible example and and a good a good example of of 682 - > how your productivity can 10x or or greater. 683 - > Um what do you think this means for the workforce and human 684 - > beings in general? 685 - > SPEAKER_02: I think the biggest challenge is entry-level roles.

686 - > So I I'm a I I guess I would consider myself a domain expert 687 - > on like e-commerce, particularly B2B. 688 - > And like I've been in the industry for a long time, and I 689 - > started at the bottom. 690 - > I started as a real super junior person working in a in a digital 691 - > agency and kind of learned everything along the way through 692 - > some trial and error, and it was, of course, it was really 693 - > early in the industry, so nobody had all the answers.

694 - > And so uh, you know, and and and I was like super, super junior. 695 - > You know, when I when I started, I I like I was an internet user, 696 - > but I was not an internet expert by any stretch of the 697 - > imagination. 698 - > And um, but I saw the writing on the wall back then, even, and I 699 - > said, This is this is going to change the world forever. 700 - > And I don't even know how fully it's going to change the world, 701 - > but it will change the world forever.

702 - > And I need, not want, I need to be a part of this. 703 - > And and I was compelled, I felt compelled to figure out how I 704 - > could play a significant role in the future of the internet right 705 - > from day one. 706 - > I felt that. 707 - > Um and and I I I'm a little bit concerned.

708 - > Uh I'm I'm both concerned, I'm equally concerned and excited. 709 - > So I'll just caveat up by saying that. 710 - > I'm a little bit concerned about all the super junior roles in 711 - > most companies, because because I think AI can replace most 712 - > juniors today already. 713 - > Like it can replace a lot of seniors too.

714 - > Uh, but in particular, like all that grunt work, that manual 715 - > grunt work with spreadsheets and and SEO work and all that stuff 716 - > that I did back in the day manually, and all the manually 717 - > emailing, you know, webmasters at the time. 718 - > Hey, can we swap links? 719 - > Hey, can I get your directory? 720 - > Hey, you know, that that all the people skills that I developed, 721 - > all the communication skills that I developed, all the, you 722 - > know, uh all the collaboration skills that I developed back in 723 - > those early days, and all the research skills that I developed 724 - > back in those early days, like that that was years of 725 - > repetition that that taught me all those skills back in the 726 - > early days.

727 - > And I'm just concerned, if there are no junior roles because AI 728 - > is doing all those junior roles, how do you become a domain 729 - > expert in the first place? 730 - > That that to me is probably my biggest concern. 731 - > But the cool thing is that with AI, uh, if you have an interest 732 - > in something, it can be a thought partner, it can be an 733 - > education partner, it can be a learning partner, uh in equal 734 - > measure. 735 - > And so that you know, what used to be tribal and institutional 736 - > knowledge only is a lot of that is now global knowledge that is 737 - > surfaced through AI.

738 - > But but I think what is really, really worth pointing out is AI 739 - > still hallucinates, it still makes mistakes, you still have 740 - > to demand that it provides you with citations, you still have 741 - > to demand that it provides you with links, you still have to 742 - > demand that it provide you with its reasoning and how it came up 743 - > with the conclusions it gave you. 744 - > You have you you you just have to structure your prompts in 745 - > such a way that it has to justify everything that it does 746 - > and says so that it doesn't just spew bullshit that sounds 747 - > really, really believable.

748 - > And so I have coined a term, a phrase, which is that with AI, 749 - > you not only need to know the questions to ask, but you need 750 - > to know the answers to question. 751 - > And I am concerned. 752 - > So I as a domain expert, I I know which answers to question 753 - > because it's something inside me, there's some intuition 754 - > inside me when it spews BS at me, I go, I go, that no, that's 755 - > not, that's not, that's not right. 756 - > And I know to ask follow-up questions to get it to prove 757 - > that it that it made something up and made it sound really 758 - > believable.

759 - > But I'm concerned that juniors will not know which answers to 760 - > question. 761 - > And I'm already seeing that in some of the people that I work 762 - > with on some projects where clearly they're using AI for a 763 - > lot of their work, and I don't have a problem with that. 764 - > But but when the deliverable is so crap and it's obviously crap, 765 - > I'm going, you didn't you didn't even take the time to review the 766 - > final deliverable before you handed it over.

767 - > You know, it's fine to use AI as a thought partner, it's fine to 768 - > use it as an execution partner, but ultimately the buck stops 769 - > with you when something goes to a client. 770 - > And so therefore, you must review it all. 771 - > Otherwise, it's your name on the line, not AI's name on the line, 772 - > it's your name on the line. 773 - > And and so those are the those are the kind of the pros and 774 - > cons that I see about AI right now.

775 - > Uh, you know, it's it but it you know, it's AI's coming after 776 - > white-collar jobs. 777 - > You know, I haven't paid a lawyer to review a contract in 778 - > two in over two years. 779 - > You know, I I I I just have I haven't needed to because I've 780 - > told it all the gotchas I'm looking for. 781 - > I upload the PDF of the contract.

782 - > It's a 60-page contract or whatever it is with a partner or 783 - > something like that. 784 - > And I go, here's the gotchas, here's the things I want to get 785 - > out of this contract. 786 - > Does this contract give me that? 787 - > What am I missing?

788 - > What thorns am I not seeing here? 789 - > You know, and it'll come back in 30 seconds or 10 seconds with 790 - > all the things I want that it doesn't give me, all the things 791 - > that that tilts it in the in the in the third party's favor, all 792 - > the things that I should add with exact legal text in the 793 - > jurisdiction uh of that contract. 794 - > Like it's it's it's pretty phenomenal, dude. 795 - > So, you know, I I'm not just saying juniors are at risk, but 796 - > seniors are at risk if you do not adapt to bring more value to 797 - > your clients by using AI than they can use AI themselves, then 798 - > you are gonna find yourself out of a job.

799 - > And I'd like to think that I still, today, with my 26 years 800 - > of experience, because my 26 years of experience doesn't live 801 - > in AI anywhere. 802 - > It lives in my head. 803 - > And so uh I'd like to think that by using AI, I still bring more 804 - > value to my customer experience and customer relationship than 805 - > they would be able to get by working with AI directly. 806 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

807 - > Yeah. 808 - > No, I I fully agree with that. 809 - > I fully agree with that. 810 - > Now, final question before we get to the lightning round.

811 - > We've established that AI is is changing e-commerce as we know 812 - > it today. 813 - > You also have established, which I made a ton of great points 814 - > about uh B2B being a blue ocean. 815 - > What advice would you give to a young person with interest in 816 - > getting into e-commerce with those two things in mind? 817 - > SPEAKER_02: I would say go to work for an agency for uh two to 818 - > five years.

819 - > So if I look back at my career, agency work was simultaneously 820 - > the most stressful, the most hardcore, the most demanding, 821 - > the most hours I have ever done in a week of work was inside 822 - > agency land and and client engagements where there were 823 - > deadlines, where there were deliverables, where there were 824 - > resource constraints, where there were, you know, just 825 - > agencies are the absolute pinnacle of a pressure cooker 826 - > environment in e-commerce delivery.

827 - > There's just no two ways about that. 828 - > Um, but on the flip side, I learned more in say five years 829 - > of working in agency land than probably 25 years working in 830 - > industry or working inside of a specific brand or working, you 831 - > know, or working inside of a vendor even. 832 - > And so I I would say most people cannot do agency work forever. 833 - > It's just it's very stressful.

834 - > It's it's it's just hard. 835 - > Any any client-facing services like that, it's really hard. 836 - > And oftentimes, especially in agency land, and especially if 837 - > you have a team of, say, 20 or more people on your team, 838 - > there's mouths to feed, and as a result of that, sometimes you 839 - > take on work that you would otherwise say no to to keep the 840 - > mouths fed, to keep people working, to keep the the money 841 - > rolling in, to keep payroll paid.

842 - > And so sometimes you have to take on clients that aren't a 843 - > great fit just because the work is there to be done and you can 844 - > make money off it, right? 845 - > Uh as an independent consultant, I don't have that problem, 846 - > right? 847 - > I've only got to be feed me and my family. 848 - > And so I swore when I started my consultancy, I swore I will 849 - > never ever take on a client or a job or an opportunity that does 850 - > not feel right to me, that I don't think I can move the 851 - > needle quickly in a client's business, that doesn't seem like 852 - > it'll be fun, that doesn't seem like the client's a good, good 853 - > company to work with, that I don't think I'll enjoy.

854 - > And I had a second rule, which was I will never work with 855 - > public companies because I I've worked with public companies 856 - > before and I know how challenging that is for a whole 857 - > litany of reasons. 858 - > So sometimes I'll work with public companies via an agency 859 - > client that I'm that I'm helping them with a project, and the end 860 - > client happens to be a public company, but I just do not work 861 - > with public companies directly as a consultant because I like 862 - > to see my work make it out into the wild.

863 - > And in public companies, oftentimes that does not happen. 864 - > And so uh uh, you know, and so uh it's an exercise in futility 865 - > and frustration oftentimes dealing with public companies, 866 - > and oftentimes they think they can do it themselves anyway, so 867 - > oftentimes they won't hire a consultant anyway. 868 - > So uh, but but it but it you know that is is kind of where 869 - > I've landed on this thing is I'm gonna continue to use AI, I'm 870 - > gonna continue to adopt it, I'm gonna continue to learn from it, 871 - > I'm gonna continue to teach it just because of that's that 872 - > that's the two-way give and take with AI, right?

873 - > Just with your prompting, you're teaching it, right? 874 - > And so uh yeah, it's it's a really, really fun time to be 875 - > alive, but that's kind of where I've landed on all this. 876 - > SPEAKER_01: I think that is great advice. 877 - > That is great advice to young people.

878 - > And I had a similar experience. 879 - > I I had seven years in in corporate consulting, 80-hour 880 - > weeks. 881 - > I'm so grateful for that that time and what I learned. 882 - > I'd never go back.

883 - > Um, but I do like I I think that's really sound, solid 884 - > advice. 885 - > And and so, all right, Jason. 886 - > We've covered a lot today. 887 - > Before we close out the episode, we have something called the 888 - > Fire Round.

889 - > It's four questions. 890 - > We ask every guest at the end of the show. 891 - > You ready? 892 - > Let's hit it.

893 - > All right, what's your favorite book? 894 - > SPEAKER_02: Uh it is a book. 895 - > Uh um it is called At Shrugged by Ayn Rand. 896 - > unknown: Okay.

897 - > SPEAKER_02: What are your hobbies? 898 - > Uh, I have a lot of hobbies. 899 - > My wife would probably say too many. 900 - > Uh I love motorcycles and dirt bikes.

901 - > I love four-wheel driving with my my with my Wrangler. 902 - > I love um I love jet skiing, I love water skiing, I love snow 903 - > skiing, I basically I love bungee jumping, basically I love 904 - > action sports of pretty much all types. 905 - > Uh I love action sports. 906 - > So anywhere we go and anywhere we travel in the world, there's 907 - > almost always some sort of an action sport involved in that.

908 - > Uh, and I have no fear of heights. 909 - > I like skydiving. 910 - > Um, I like, yeah. 911 - > I have all my almost all of my hobbies are expensive and 912 - > involve some sort of physical activity.

913 - > I'm not a go and sit on a beach read a book kind of guy. 914 - > That's just not the way I'm wired. 915 - > SPEAKER_01: Very nice. 916 - > Very nice.

917 - > Uh what do you think sets apart successful e-commerce 918 - > entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail, or never get 919 - > started? 920 - > SPEAKER_02: All of the successful e-commerce 921 - > entrepreneurs that I have ever met they equally balance hunger 922 - > with humility. 923 - > And they generally have an outsized empathy gene, an 924 - > empathy muscle versus their competitors. 925 - > Meaning that they care for their people, they care to create a 926 - > supportive environment, an encouraging environment, a sure, 927 - > it might be high pressure, it might be high demand, uh, but 928 - > you know, that equal parts hunger and humility, the 929 - > realization I don't know it all and I'll never know it all, I 930 - > don't have a monopoly on good ideas, even though I might be 931 - > the founder of this company, and understanding the good ideas can 932 - > come from anywhere at any time.

933 - > And the final thing I will say is that the people who travel 934 - > the most tend to be the most balanced in that regard. 935 - > Because I tell you, when you get outside your comfort zone, when 936 - > you get outside everything you know, when you literally 937 - > physically walk a mile in someone else's shoes because you 938 - > visited where they live, where they buy groceries, where they 939 - > do their sports, uh, you eat their food, you speak their 940 - > language, when you do those things, you see the world in a 941 - > different way, but you see yourself in a different way, and 942 - > you see your place in the world in a very different way.

943 - > People that, you know, grow up, live and die in their hometown, 944 - > nothing wrong with that. 945 - > But I tell you, it tends to make you a little bit insular, it 946 - > tends to make you a little bit ignorant, and it tends to get 947 - > make you arrogant. 948 - > Based on ignorance. 949 - > And that's a really dangerous when you start drinking your own 950 - > Kool-Aid, there's nothing that will humble you more than 951 - > finding yourself in the middle of Mexico City after your cell 952 - > phone's been stolen from you.

953 - > Right? 954 - > There is nothing that will humble you more than realizing I 955 - > don't speak this language. 956 - > And uh, you know, they have every right to expect I come to 957 - > their country and I speak their language because I'm in I'm in 958 - > their I'm in on their turf, right? 959 - > And so I tell you, you know, travel and living in other 960 - > countries, I'm now living in the third country after, you know, I 961 - > I I grew up in California, born and raised, lived in New Zealand 962 - > for almost 30 years, been living in Mexico now since 2023.

963 - > So it's my third country that I've lived in. 964 - > Every one of those experiences has taught me massive life 965 - > lessons, right? 966 - > So I think travel and living living in different places to 967 - > where you were born is the single best education you can 968 - > give yourself. 969 - > And it it will help grow both the hunger and the humility.

970 - > Because when you see things done in a certain culture and you go, 971 - > wow, I I could take that idea and I could tweak it a little 972 - > bit and I could take it back to where I operate. 973 - > And I could it it is just so inspirational. 974 - > Uh, as an entrepreneur, I think you'll get more inspiration by 975 - > traveling than you will by reading a business book. 976 - > Let's put it that way.

977 - > SPEAKER_01: I that is very sound advice. 978 - > I I really like that. 979 - > Uh last question, Jason. 980 - > If if people are interested in working with you, what's your 981 - > typical client and what's the best way to get in touch with 982 - > you?

983 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look, it's it's pretty straightforward. 984 - > Uh it's all on greenweedconsulting.net, but uh 985 - > for manufacturers and distributors, I tend to work 986 - > with$50 million plus per year revenue manufacturers like$50 987 - > million to$500 million is my sweet spot. 988 - > Um, you know, because larger than that, they tend to have 989 - > very big internal teams and they tend not to necessarily need 990 - > somebody like me.

991 - > But$50 to$500 million, maybe a billion at a stretch, uh is is 992 - > in terms of annual revenue across all channels is a great 993 - > sweet spot. 994 - > High growth companies that are struggling with scale, maybe 995 - > they're looking at uh implementing self-service 996 - > e-commerce or a portalized experience for the very first 997 - > time, or they're looking at seriously uh leveling up their 998 - > e-commerce and digital commerce game and creating a much better 999 - > experience for their customers.

1000 - > Um and I think the other thing that sets me apart as a 1001 - > consultant is I don't just consult on e-comm, I consult on 1002 - > the entire commerce stack. 1003 - > So ERP, CRM, CDP, PIM, OMS, IMS, WMS, point of sale, system 1004 - > integration, enterprise architecture, I do the lot. 1005 - > And so uh that that's really where I can help. 1006 - > And then of course I work with agencies who oftentimes they 1007 - > maybe have historically been a D2C, B2C agency, they want to 1008 - > get into B2B, but they don't know how.

1009 - > I help them with that uh transition and I help them to 1010 - > develop their B2B e-commerce delivery capabilities in-house 1011 - > and their customer engagement model. 1012 - > Uh and then I work with platform vendors in a similar way to help 1013 - > them roadmap uh you know their their technology, to uh to help 1014 - > them with their go-to-market, to help them with their partner 1015 - > model, et cetera, and then investors in the B2B space. 1016 - > So but from a manufacturing distribution perspective, that 1017 - > 50 to 500 million, fast growing, uh don't know where to go next, 1018 - > don't know how to use AI, don't know uh, you know, they they 1019 - > need help with technology selection, they need help with 1020 - > solution architecture, um, and they need help with AI 1021 - > implementation.

1022 - > Uh I don't do any implementation, so I'm a pure 1023 - > consultancy. 1024 - > Uh, but I help with with you know platform search and select, 1025 - > I help with partner search and select, I help with solution 1026 - > architecture and all the rest. 1027 - > SPEAKER_01: So outstanding. 1028 - > Outstanding.

1029 - > Well, Jason, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with 1030 - > you today. 1031 - > I will post links to uh all of your content. 1032 - > Um to the listeners, check out e commerce edge. 1033 - > It's an outstanding podcast and uh definitely in my top five.

1034 - > So all right, Jason, we'll chat with you later. 1035 - > Thank you. 1036 - > Love it, thank you.