Why the Best Fintech Companies Are Staying Private With Sahej Suri, Founder of Blue Dot Investors

Speaker A: M We think fintech is actually closer to biotech in many ways. Right. It's super specialist and, and that's why our advisor network really helps us where we have folks that have built these companies 10 or 15 years ago that can help us get up to speed very quickly. Because I do believe there's no human being on the planet that knows every part of financial services. Like it's just, it's impossible. But that's where we're carving our niche which is classically trained later stage investors as well as being a specialist in the industry. We think, you know, over the next 5, 10, 15 years there will continue to be some amazing investing opportunities kind of in our niche.

Speaker B: This is the FinTech one on one

Speaker C: podcast, the show for fintech enthusiasts looking to better understand the leaders shaping fintech and banking today. My name is Peter renton and since 2013 I've been conducting in depth interviews with fintech founders and banking executives. Today on the show I'm delighted to welcome Sahaj Suri, the founder of Blue Dot Investors, a late stage growth equity firm that invests exclusively in fintech across both primaries and secondaries. Before starting Blue Dot, Sahaj built his career at some of the most respected names in finance, first at JP Morgan, then TPG and then serving as chief of staff to Nigel Morris at QED Investors, which is where I first met him. Full disclosure, I am an advisor to BlueDOT investors. In our conversation we talk about the scrappy origin story of bluedot, the overlooked opportunity in fintech secondaries, and his new report with FT Partners on the coming fintech liquidity super cycle, including the staggering finding that the top 100 private fintechs out earn the top hundred public ones. We also get into the IPO window, his AI thesis and where he sees the asset class heading over the next decade. Now let's get on with the show.

Speaker B: Welcome to the podcast, Sahaj.

Speaker A: Thank you Peter. Excited to be here.

Speaker B: Great to have you. So let's get started by giving the listeners a little bit of background about yourself. Just hit on some of the high points of your career before Blue Dot.

Speaker A: Sure. So I was born in New Jersey, not too far away from New York City. My family had a import export garment business. So family of entrepreneurs. My dad and uncle would, you know, grew up in India, moved here and every Saturday I would go to our New York City showroom in the fashion district and watched him build, you know, this fashion company in a way and very much a family of entrepreneurs. Right. That is kind of how I Grew up on both sides of my, you know, my mom's dad side and my dad's side. So entrepreneurship has really been in my blood since I've been a kid and yeah, look, you know when I grew up I had a pretty privileged background and family business doing well and went to an amazing middle school and high school in New York City. Childhood was great. I think the 2008 recession hit and you know the family business went from doing incredibly well to not great overnight. And it uh, was the first time in my life seeing the importance of the acts of having a bank account, credit cards, loans. And it was the first time in my life the pain of hundreds of millions of Americans and billions of people globally was first time I had ever felt it. And it was kind of something I'd never felt before and have never lost since. And for me that was always a moment that stuck with me. Access to financial services, products and my career. I was at J.P. morgan in the financial institutions group, in the investment bank. I covered some of the first fintechs. So think of the green sky. So lending clubs, the sofas of the world. Moved to San Francisco and worked at TBG private equity firm and did a lot of late stage growth equity investing there and some buyouts as well. Think of peak 2021 when we were seeing every company in Fintech and you could debate the valuations but Fintech was kind of the forefront of all the ZIRP era and we did very little deals and probably for the right reasons at tvg but it was an exciting place to be and I knew I wanted to be at a place and be at the heart of fintech. To me that was clear passion of mine and had a unique opportunity to work for the uh, founder of Capital One, Nigel Morris who had started QED Investors. And for a couple years I just hung out with a guy, I was the chief of staff. I watched him build QED and watched him build a real business early stage venture fund. But it was still really cool to be at the forefront of fintech. You know I think for me I'm definitely a late stage investor. And Nigel, I'm chatting a lot about what I want to do long term and the short answer was I didn't know. And so moved to Costa Rica for a couple of months and I was doing yoga and meditation there and that was an amazing moment in my life. My mother called, said so Hedge, you got to be a little serious and get back. So I uh, came back to New York, I started following my curiosity, right like how does Robinhood make money? Or SoFi or Fiserv? I was pitching buyout funds on hey, let's spin out XYZ assets of. Within these broader public market companies. We're looking at credit risk transfer deals like private credit. And that's when the secondary opportunity hit within Fintech, which was you had some incredible businesses out there that were scaled and profitable and growing really well and people need liquidity. On the secondary side, a lot of it were venture funds that I had known them for a long time or entrepreneurs or. And so that was kind of the origin story of Blue Dot.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: It came a little happenstance where, you know, we just started doing one deal, then the next, then the next. And so today we're a late stage growth equity firm and we do a lot on the primaries and as well as a ton on the secondary side, all we do is FinTech. We cover 450 unicorns, like late stage businesses. You know, this time last year was just myself with a backpack. Now we've got six people on the team, 30 advisors, all really senior people in financial services, Fintech. And yeah, it's been, it's been a great journey so far.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, when you talk about um, like JP Morgan, tpg, then qed, there are three just fantastic names for you to gain experience in. And obviously Nigel's been on the show before and uh, I'm curious then, so you said a year ago, was this you in a backpack? 10 Take us through this first year. You're coming out of stealth earlier this year. Just take us through the genesis of the last 12 months.

Speaker A: Yeah, maybe. Can I touch on like those three institutions for a second? I think the unique thing about working at JP Morgan or TBG or QT is kind of at the forefront of the amazing leaders in financial services ever. Right. So like JP Morgan was Jamie Dimon's business. Right. And of course it still is. Like of course I didn't know Jamie, but you could feel what excellence was in banking.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: And at tpg, you know, David Bonderman and Jim Coulter's sort of business, but oozing with talent and you know, you're at the forefront of private equity and growth equity and additional products and asset management. And with Nigel and qed, it was at the forefront of Fintech and so it was kind of always at the cutting edge and just seeing what greatness was. Right. Was how I think about kind of my career arc up until that point, which was really just learning from incredible people. Right, right.

Speaker B: Okay, so then just take us through the first 12 months of Blue Dot,

Speaker A: I never want to build BlueDot, if I'm being honest. Like, it really was a let's do a deal and then another deal and another deal. And that's actually some of the great entrepreneurial stories is, you know, it locked into it, right? You know, I think when we first started BlueDOT, I just found an amazing business, Strive wealth, which was a capital, uh, markets infrastructure business that in 2021 raised a hypey, you know, round and led by some amazing investors. Since then, the company's grown a lot and it's become profitable and scaling very well. We came in at a pretty attractive entry point to, um, that business. But it was really just a case study of there are amazing businesses out there, right, in fintech and some that may have fallen out of favor or people may have forgotten or the big capital sources have moved on to AI or other parts of the market. Right. And so, yeah, drivewealth was deal number one. And then we followed up with another deal and another deal. And I think there was a lot of momentum sort of internally with our advisors, you know, our investors that came in those deals, which was, hey, you've done this multiple times. Like, why don't you just go out and raise a fund, right? And do this repeatedly. So that was kind of how Blue Dot started. Incredibly scrappy. And, you know, when I think about some amazing sort of entrepreneurs and financial services, like everyone has had to scrap. And that is part of the entrepreneurial journey. It's been fun sort of doing it, I think. Peter, when you and I first chatted almost what, a year and a half ago, like me in my childhood bedroom, like building Blue Dot, right. And so, you know, I think every day we're just continuing to compound and yeah, we're on our sixth, about to do seventh deal, managing about 100 million of assets now in about a year. Six people on the team, 30 advisors, 34 LPs. And so, you know, and did a first close on the fund. And, you know, I think we're gaining some pretty interesting momentum is how we see it.

Speaker B: Right. And so the late stage area of fintech seems to be less crowded than some of the earlier stages. And particularly on the secondary side, there isn't really anybody else doing what you're doing. Why is there, uh, was there a gap in the market, do you think?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a couple things. So when you and I think about fintech, like some of the great companies that exist today were very small companies in 2020, 2015 or 2016. Right. There were seed checks by what I think of like the great entrepreneurs and Fintech, uh, that have started venture funds. A lot of them spun out of operating businesses. Right. So like Mickey Malka started his own business or, or Nigel started, you know, Capital One. And, and these folks were amazing at mentoring entrepreneurs of hey, I've built a business before, like here's kind of what it takes. Right. And a lot of the great entrepreneurs that have built venture capital firms at fintech focus on early stage. Right. So like when we think of like great investors in fintech, it's historically been early stage.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: The other factor here is, you know, fintech as an asset class is maturing real time. Right. And so those small seed companies are now very big companies. At the same time you look at the big private equity firms, right? Like they're generalists, they focus on health care and consumer and technology and, and so the ability to be specialists within fintech is, was not historically a real place to deploy capital. This word fintech is really an amalgamation of almost different worlds. Right. Banking is so different from payments, is so different from capital markets, is so different from insurance. They're almost different worlds. And you know there's a term fintech, but in reality these are different networks.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Right. Like you can be working at Fiserv and never know anything about an insurance business and you'd have a great career. And look, I think to summarize your question, I think there's going to be a next generation of investors in fintech that are look a little bit more like me, which is private equity trained, classically trained in sort of later stage investing but also able to understand sort of the intricacies of different business models in fintech. And we think fintech is actually closer to biotech in many ways. Right. It's super specialist. And that's why our advisor network really helps us where we have folks that have built these companies 10 or 15 years ago that can help us get up to speed very quickly because I do believe there's no human being on the planet that knows every part of financial services. Like it's just, it's impossible. Right. But you uh, know that that's where we're carving our niche which is classically trained later stage investors as well as being a specialist in the industry. We think, you know, over the next 5, 10, 15 years there will continue to be some amazing investing opportunities kind of in our niche.

Speaker B: So in some of the research that you've done and we'll get to the details of this in a second. But it's really interesting that when you look at Fintech, you've got the top 10 names in fintech that dominate the secondary market activity. Everyone knows now that like Stripe does a, uh, tender offer every year pretty much. You know, there's a whole universe of fintech companies beyond the top 10 names. But the top 10 names seem to attract all of the attention in the secondary markets. I mean, all. When you look at the whole universe, how do you find those companies that are potentially undervalued? They're obviously going to be outside the top 10 names. But what's the sort of thesis there on looking at those companies that investors can get a great return on and that they're open to secondary transactions?

Speaker A: Yeah, look, I think you hit it on the head, right? Stripe or Revolut or, you know, there are a handful of these names that get all, all of the sort of attraction on the secondary side. And that's in large part because they're familiar businesses, they don't really have to explain it. And so that's easy. Right. But kind of to our point on fintech, it really is specialist like, I do not recommend investing in fintech companies unless you understand fintech. Right, right. That's just my personal bias. And we saw that in 2021. Most of the people that invested in fintech in 2021 do not have jobs anymore.

Speaker B: Right, right. I want to dive into the report that you recently put out with FT Partners. I think this is one of the most interesting reports that I've seen because Steve McLaughlin said when we did the interview a uh, few weeks back that FT Partners had never really opened up their data set to anybody else. And you were able to work with Steve and the team there to sort of open up this, to provide new insight into the top 100 fintech companies. That had never been done before the report, and we'll link to it in the show notes, it's called the coming fintech liquidity super cycle. Looks at the top hundred private fintechs and the valuations of the top 100 private fintechs versus the public. I would have expected the valuation to be higher because that's how private markets work. What I didn't know, the top hundred private fintech companies earn more revenue than the top 100 public fintech companies. And that I thought was just a staggering, staggering insight. Tell us a little bit about the genesis of this report and how you were able to kind of get FD Partners comfortable with, uh, working with you.

Speaker A: The true genesis is I had an LP that was looking to invest in Blue Dot and they ended up passing on the fund. I said, why? And the response was, we don't think the fintech market is that big.

Speaker B: Oh God, right.

Speaker A: Like we think it's small. And in my heart I was like, that's just not true.

Speaker B: Like, it's not True.

Speaker A: There are 450 unicorns in fintech. Like you look at sort of the companies that went public in 2025, I think it was about a third of them were in fintech and the best ones are still private. And so to me it was, it was a little bit of a frustrating moment and I was like, okay, we'll go out and prove it, right? And so we started just market mapping internally at boot out sort of the top names in fintech. And I was just chatting with Steve from FT Partners about it and I was like, look, it's kind of what we're doing and I think Steve's very innovative sort of in the fintech community. And previously I'd done a report, uh, with BCG and qed and part of my push to the BCG folks were, hey, how do we market map fintech? Like the size of the opportunity? And we ended up coming up with an interesting report and I thought, why don't we do this on an individual, uh, company level to an extent. And so for the record, I didn't have access to the data that FT Partners put together, but I think it was a little bit more, let's push the thinking and let's push how do we think about market leadership in the space and how do we represent fintech in the broader tech community? Right? Like how do we think about sort of sizing the opportunity? And so it was not a surprise to me to see that the private companies are bigger than public companies. I knew it was the case, but it is important to put it on a piece of paper. Yeah, we think the best companies in fintech are private right now. To me, that's what's really exciting about what we're chasing at Blue Dot, which is there's an incredible opportunity here right on the private side of the home. And so it was a great partnership with FD Partners and hopefully for the fintech community. But also part of our push at bluedot is I tell entrepreneurs all the time in fintech. I'm like, look, just please, like when you go public, like, I hope that the IPO does well, right? I hope that when you sell your company that it does well. Like, I hope we continue to sort of represent fintech in a positive way. Because in 2021, FinTech was a dirty word. When we chat with investors, you know, LPs or when you chat with sort of big firms, a lot of them were, uh, like I spoke to the head of a very big private equity firm that you would have heard of. And you know, the founder essentially said that he didn't believe fintech was like a thing. You know, he was like, yeah, I think fintech's a fad. Uh, in my heart I was like, wait a second, like, of course not. Like financial sources is 20% of all GDP in the world and technology will continue to be a driving force. So like how you define fintech, like, sure, we can debate that. But like, to me, like, it did a disservice to the fintech community. Sort of all the valuation bid up in 2021. And you know, I chat with LPs and they look at some of the marks in the firms that have, you know, invested in 2021. It is horrid.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Like those investors got the thesis right. They knew the digital tailwinds were there. They knew that these companies will probably do well. They underestimated how long it would take. They underestimated how much capital would need to go into it. And they underestimated, like potentially the true size of the pie. And it was not a healthy practice in 2021. I fear that some of those investors are a little undisciplined, uh, now, but in AI or other parts of the market. But I think it's a good thing, net, for financial services technology to just have true sort of specialists and true experts. Just focus on the space and do it responsibly, invest in very healthy companies and do it at, uh, disciplined valuations that work for everyone. I have to remind founders now as well, like, hey, just because you're getting a really hefty valuation today, you have no idea what tomorrow holds. Right. And your employees may be underwater on their options. Right. And that it's not good for morale.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: Like you see really amazing employees leave because they see that, you know, valuations have shifted and they're. Then you have mess up cap tables as well, where you have sort of the late stage investors at the top pushing for an exit so they can get their money back. And it really is disruptive for overall businesses. Right. And so definitely we're seeing a lot more discipline now. But you know, ultimately things, you know, markets move and human psychology always remains the same.

Speaker B: Living through that five years ago, we knew at the time these valuations were crazy and peak companies continued to go out. And what's interesting is you look at the valuations that were. If the company was private raising in 2021 and they might have subsequently gone public in the next five years, the valuation today for most companies is still nowhere near the valuation they had on their private round in 2021. So anyway, I want to go back to the report and talk about the IPO market, the M M and A market. Let's touch on the IPO market because we've just seen, we're recording this on, uh, what is the date today? The 24th of June. And uh, SpaceX went public earlier this month. It uh, was the biggest public IPO in history by a considerable margin. I mean as of I haven't looked at the stock price today, but it's got a big pop and it's back down to roughly, uh, where it IPO'd. Where do you see sort of the Fintech IPO market in the second half of this year and next year? What's your view on the IPO window today?

Speaker A: So after 2021 Witsha, um, a lot of companies go public. There was almost a little bit of a lull in 23, zero companies went public in fintech, which had never happened in the history in 2425 we saw companies that had always been waiting on the sidelines eventually go public. And in that cohort is really interesting. It was actually the second worst time ever to go public. But the companies that did were a much higher bar. Right. So they were three times the size on a revenue scale than historically go public. They were more profitable than ever before. They were more efficient on a revenue per employee basis on. And so like the. It was a little bit healthier sort of those businesses that public markets investors were essentially long ago public. So that was like one wave. I think it's really interesting to see what happens with SpaceX and anthropic and OpenAI. Right. It's to me one of the most interesting questions in capital markets today. Could be a situation where it's great and they're all on the index and a lot of retail traders are in and people make a lot of money. I've always been a little cautious about it. What happens if SpaceX does not perform well in a few months and what are the downstream impacts? And so I have no idea. Right. And I think it's a little bit more dependent on how SpaceX performs. Does great. I think you'll see a wave of fintechs lining up and we are aware of fintechs that are lining up and have filed. But if SpaceX performs poorly, really hard for them to go public.

Speaker B: And then obviously OpenAI and Anthropic, we don't know if they're going public. They filed both confidentially, but we don't know when they're going to pull the trigger. And they're watching SpaceX just as much as anybody else is, I'm sure to decide uh, what to do. The thing you mentioned about the state of fintech companies going public in 2025, that was one thing that surprised me about the report like 3x the revenue and far more profitable now, so the bar is higher. Does that mean that if you're a private fintech you're looking at those numbers, looking at the report saying well my revenue is not quite there yet. I mean does that, what do you think that does to those companies? The seeing the data now for the first time, the company is not at that revenue level, they're not profitable. What do you think that does to their IPO kind of time horizon?

Speaker A: We talk to a lot of these late stage founders and that is the benchmark I typically, you know, discuss with founders, hey, if you're not at least half a billion of revenue or tracking that way like I, I think you know, you've got to temper your expectations of having that liquidity event and NASDAQ or New York Stock Exchange. And I think a lot of founders, a fair amount of them are very cognizant of this, which is they saw the 21 cohort go out less quality businesses and they have not performed well publicly as they traded. And so uh, I think there's some founders that are aware of this. There are also some founders that if I were in their shoes and it's only probably like five or three or five that I can count, I would never go public in my life if I didn't need to. Right. You have this robust secondaries market, people are throwing money at you and you can essentially name your own valuation. And it's kind of an interesting thing the have versus have nots in fintech. And so if you have, if you have demand from investors, you can pick one of it's really like five investors that need to write $300 million a year per investment and probably only 10 companies in fintech that fit that bill. So for them they're a little less valuation sensitive. Right.

Speaker B: So you're filling the space where smaller check size, smaller companies, but also quality companies, they don't really necessarily need or want a $300 million secondary round.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think the true game that's being played at, uh, sort of the companies that are getting all the headlines are, you know, these five or ten venture growth, equity, private equity firms need to put a lot of money to work every year. Right. They need to think about portfolio construction. They need to think about where does fintech sit in, sort of, you know, they've probably got to do one fintech deal a year or something. Right. And same with that company. Right. They've got to raise some money, employee tender or raise primary capital. And so, you know, from our perspective, those are very rich rounds that are getting done.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And the jury's still out. They keep going up. Right.

Speaker B: Like. Right.

Speaker A: You know, every six months. It's pretty, um, amazing to just see, you know, this business is raising capital. The jury's out in five years, whether those are good deals or not. Right. You know, if you look at some of those companies on the private side, and you add up one or two names, and then you add up on the public side, like the biggest public companies, it's like, would you rather own Stripe and Revolut or Robinhood, eBank, Coinbase? It's, uh, probably like five or six. You combine. Right, right. And then, and you have to make a question of how do you think about valuation, how do you think about risk reward? To me, it'll be interesting in five years, which cohort's more valuable?

Speaker B: Okay, so I want to talk briefly about your dinner series. Um, you know, you've hosted some really big names, um, including the heads of Built Cross River, Zell Drive Wealth, Moneyline, just to name a few. We had one last night with a, uh, senior Morgan Stanley exec. What's the objective of your dinner series?

Speaker A: Yeah, look, I think we can think about financial services, we can think about valuation, this, that. But ultimately, business is about people and building community. Right. And it really is amazing to hear some of these entrepreneurial stories of entrepreneurs building their businesses or seeing how big firms are leveraging technology in house. And so that'd been like the origin of the dinner series, which is talk about your business. And on top of that, We've got about 30 advisors to our firm, and they're all really interesting folks in FinTech or our LP base. A lot of them are really senior in this space. And how do we help our entrepreneurs out? That was kind of the genesis of our dinner series. Right. How do we just create shared value overall? And so I think it's been a Lot of fun more than anything else, sort of having folks in a room and seeing where conversations go. And it's been fun just having, having amazing entrepreneurs telling their stories.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So yeah, let's kind of see. Uh, I think it's nice to have a little bit more closed room settings for those dialogues and conversations.

Speaker B: Right. So I want to talk about AI because I think it's a really interesting time to be an investor right now because AI is sort of rewriting the rules in some ways. I mean the question I have there is when you're looking at a late stage fintech company, I mean how do you kind of uh, price, how do you underwrite these deals where AI it's going to impact their business one way or another. It might make their competitive moat less, it may make it more, it may make them much more efficient, dropping costs down. But tell us about your AI thesis, shall we say?

Speaker A: You know, I get asked this question a lot and there's an element of unknown with AI. No one truly knows what the future holds. But here's what I believe will not change.

Speaker C: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: People will still need banking products, people will still need lending products, insurance products. Right. And so when you saw, you know, the advent of the Internet or mobile or now AI, you've, you saw sort of the method of uh, delivery or access change. But uh, the form of the bank account may have been different. Deposits are still deposits. Right. Ultimately. And so we take a very financial services first principles sort of look whenever uh, we think about AI and those core needs will never change for the consumer or businesses is how we see it. So we try not to ever lose sight of that. We, we also think that money ultimately is formed in trust. Trust is the underlying factor when it comes to moving money. And so we think AI will be incredibly transformational in financial services. I don't know where it goes, but what I do know for certain is ultimately you gotta tie it back to fundamentals, right, with financial services. So that's number one. I think the other interesting thing is we agree AI, uh, will be hugely transformational in financial services. But it's not clear to me where the value creation will lie. We have a thesis, but I think the question is will the big banks, the legacy financial institutions ultimately generate a lot of the value creation with AI? Will it be OpenAI or anthropic? Will it be the large fintechs, the ones that have already scaled, um, and profitable and have large customer bases, or will it be these new early stage startups? I think our house view is very much these late fintech businesses and the ones with tens or hundreds of millions of customers today that already have multiple products sold into them, they already know the brand of these fintechs and the fintechs are very well capitalized. We believe that that's going to be easier to sort of cross sell AI products or to leverage AI in house. And so the blue dot house view very much is that those large fintechs will amass in material scale.

Speaker B: Right, right. So let's continue on with that theme to end here and I'd love to kind of get your 10 year view on fintech where the asset class is going and where blue dots role in

Speaker A: the asset class in 2022-2025, 26. Those first C checks are now very big businesses and uh, we see no reason why they will not continue to be big businesses. Right. And so we're pretty bullish that those 450 unicorns, a lot of them will continue to be very big companies. I think when you think about fintech as an asset class in 10 years, I do think later stage investing minority as well as buyouts will start to emerge as a real sort of form of ownership. Right. Historically it was venture funds and it was uipo. Right. I think that's changing real time and I think that'll continue to change. Where there may be some companies that are better off being private than public, some companies do very similar things. Right. Like in 10 years will they be separate companies or should they be merged into uh, one. And so I think private equity later stage investors, I think that will be the direction where a lot of the value is created in fintech in pretty interesting ways. And so we think more firms that are later stage in nature but specialists within fintech will emerge. Um, and we think they will build some pretty big businesses. When you think about sort of the private markets investors in fintech, I also see some amazing early stage investors in fintech, but there are a lot of them. There are a lot of pre seed seed or series A investors and it's not clear to me if we need so many of them in five or 10 years and what the moat each one has. And there are a handful of just amazing early stage investors but there are so many of them. And so to me it'll be interesting to see what sort of happens there. Uh, and kind of like where my mind goes in all of this is you have amazing learnings at the intersection of financial services and technology. Right. You can learn a lot from a pre, uh, seed company today. That's at the forefront of AI innovation. But then you also have public companies, right. And what are they seeing or how can you share learnings or more mature businesses? And is there kind of a Central ecosystem in 10 years from now where you have early stage growth buyouts, you know, multiple products within one sort of platform, there's probably one or two fintech funds that will sort of build into that is what we see. And I think it'll actually be a net positive for the ecosystem. Right. And, and you've kind of seen that with the big private equity firms like the black zones, the world they built most multiple products. Right. But to do it as a specialist and to just own the market and know it better than anyone and just have incredible network effects, I think that's probably where this, where FinTech goes in 10 years from now.

Speaker B: Okay, well it will be interesting to find out. Uh, Sahaj, we'll have to leave it there. Fantastic. Uh, chat with you. Thanks for coming on the show and best of luck.

Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you so much Peter.

Speaker C: What I want to highlight here is the hedge's view on where the AI value will land in fintech. His bet is not on the early stage startups or even the huge AI companies. It is on the large scaled fintechs that already have tens of millions of customers and multiple products to cross sell into. I think he's onto something. Distribution and trust. Trust are the two hardest things to build in financial services and the companies that already have them are uh, best positioned to take full advantage of these advanced AI capabilities. It is somewhat of a contrarian take in a market obsessed with the newest thing and I suspect he'll be proven right. Anyway, that's it for today's show. If you enjoy these episodes, please go ahead and subscribe, tell a friend or leave a review you and thanks so much for listening.