From Executive Assistant to Business Partner (Audio only)

Speaker A: The traditional role, I think, is slowly fading into the sunset. What I really tried to impress is it's not even called an executive assistant anymore. Yeah, you have to start thinking about, I am a business partner, therefore I need to know strategies. I need to be able to do analytics, analysis, and be able to use AI. I need to get to know you. I need to do more than just calendaring, you know, or expense reports or travel generators. It's way beyond that. The executive assistants and assistants that use AI will not be. In fact, a lot of companies are looking for AI experience. They still want the good administrative support. Um, I do think right now it's a very crazy world.

Speaker B: Welcome to Executive Office Insights with your host, Diana Brandle, consultant and coach for Executive Support. I travel around the globe to bring you the most exciting voices in the industry in front of my microphone. Get inspired by insider knowledge, real success stories, and new perspectives on leadership and executive support.

Speaker C: Well, I have to say, it has been a while since I last saw Debbie Gross because we've been speaking at

Speaker B: a conference in Atlanta a couple of

Speaker C: years ago, and it's always nice to have a chat with her. I remember I also interviewed her a couple of years ago for the Swiss magazine Miss Moneypenny. And now we got together again in her neck of the woods. I was out in the Silicon Valley.

Speaker B: It was so nice to meet her,

Speaker C: especially at her former workplace because she used to be the CEO assistant. She worked alongside John Chambers at Cisco for a long, long time. And of course, we had so much to chat about her career, uh, what she's doing now, and, you know, her view on the profession. So much more. So please enjoy this episode. So we are here at, uh, a very special location. Um, I'm in the U.S. i arrived two days ago in San Francisco, and right now I'm actually in the Valley. Never been to this area. And that's why I'm so excited to have my speaker colleague with me. Former ea Debbie is here. And where are we? Debbie, welcome.

Speaker A: Well, we're in San Jose, actually, the, uh, heart of San Jose. And, uh, in the new Cisco building.

Speaker C: It's incredible because you have been working how many years for Cisco?

Speaker A: I worked 26 years for the same person, uh, John Chambers at Cisco. And, um, our buildings moved around from the beginning. A time when we were employees. 500 employed 561 to when I left, over 70,000 employees. So, yes, a lot of growth over those years. But, yeah, you're in one of the newest Cisco buildings. Um, very weird to be here. Especially it used to be splunk. And I think when they acquired Splunk they moved in here. So it's kind of weird. I wish they'd had this when I was commuting 45 minutes a day in Cisco and Santa Clara. But yeah, that's where we are today.

Speaker C: It's incredible because of course um, I know your story and you got to share the story with us here. There's a lot of people over in Germany and Switzerland, Austria who would love to hear more from your personal story and how it all happened with Cisco and then how you transformed your career, the speaker business and everything. But still, I mean entering know the doors at Cisco, what feeling comes to you? Even if John is not around anymore and some of the colleagues are not around anymore. Although we have to give a shout out to Terry.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Who's been helping us going through the doors.

Speaker A: You know, candidly, nobody knows who I am anymore. So you're a stranger, you're a visitor, you know, quote unquote. I'm just a visitor.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And uh, sometimes I just want to tell them, don't you know who I am? But I've given up that it's been a while. It's been over eight years since I've been in the Cisco. So a lot of changes for Cisco in general. So it's weird, it's feeling weird. Feeling like a uh, visitor, not a welcome.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Someone who hangs around.

Speaker C: But the funny thing is that you still have the colleague that helped us here, uh, the wonderful Terry. And she told me that also. Ah, she speaks a little German so it was really nice to catch up with her as well. And she, she did such a great job helping us to find a room here. So a big shout out to you Terry. I know you're gonna listen to this episode. Um, and it's, it's wonderful right that you still have these conn. And there's

Speaker A: still several EAs still working here that worked in my day. So they're good to reach out. We get together every once in a while and have dinner. Ah, tell stories. It's fun.

Speaker C: So we are now in April and usually April means M Administrative Professionals month. So were they all celebrated the past years when you were with uh, Cisco, did you make big parties? Uh, was John a big supporter of that?

Speaker A: We tried to uh, actually we tried to have our all hands administrators meetings around that time frame. Um, but it, if we didn't we would absolutely celebrate it in some form or fashion. Mhm. Uh, I just believe that this particular role should be celebrated. And not just one day a month, but the entire month.

Speaker C: I agree.

Speaker A: And that's my mantra. It should be celebrated more than just one month. But it's a time for reminding our executives and our leaders that, hey, here I am, your support person. Absolutely.

Speaker C: That is true. So, I mean, did you grow up in California? Are you from this area? Tell us a little bit about your background, Debbie.

Speaker A: Well, I am actually from Jackson, Mississippi. I was Southern gal from the very beginning of time. And I remember at one point my father was transferred to Kansas. And I was excited about going to Kansas because Mississippi's Mississippi. Right. And Kansas. Well, I thought that would be awesome. And I spent four years in high school there.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, and then I, uh, got a little high school sweetheart. And then my dad got transferred again to California, and I did not want to go. I was kicking and screaming, screaming and yelling. I've made my parents miserable because I didn't want to leave my little high school sweetheart. But ultimately, once, uh, we arrived here and I started getting adapted to it, I became enthralled, in love with it. I mean, the culture is so diverse, Foods are diverse, people are diverse, which you didn't get in some of those conservative states. And so I just fell in love with California and, uh, ultimately got my very first job working for what you would call a dollar store.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: So that was a lot of fun. And that started my trajectory towards my career.

Speaker C: Wow. So how did you land the job over at Cisco? Was it like a job ad somewhere? Was it a reputation thing? Or.

Speaker A: Um, it's funny because, uh, I worked for a startup. I worked as a manager and a, uh, little high tech, um, what do you call it? A little high tech satellite sales office. And I was the office manager. I had two people reporting to me, and I thought I was cat's meow. I was there for six years. And then my girlfriend, who I had trained, had moved on, and she called me and she says, oh, I'm in this startup and you're gonna love it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: She came over and interviewed for being an executive assistant. And I go, what the hell does an executive assistant do? By the way, I'm queen over here. Why did I want to go over there? But when she started telling me was that you did right be doing, I said, well, I do that, I do that, I do that. What the heck, let's go and interview. So I interviewed, they made, uh, me an offer on the spot, and, um, ended up working for two executives. Never been an executive assistant in my life. One executive Was so laid back, he has feet on the desk making golf tee times. And the other one was an engineering executive who was very, very detail oriented and made me crazy. But I learned kind of how to balance that. Well, that startup went down and under within the. Because startups don't always last.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Here I am without a job going. I liked being an executive assistant, so I put an ad in the paper.

Speaker C: Nice.

Speaker A: Actually, I was looking in the papers. That's how we did it right back then.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: And that's how we did it. And, um, I was getting, you know, interviews, and, uh, I knew I wanted to work for an executive. I didn't want to work for anything lower than that.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And then one day I got a call five weeks after, uh, I had started looking five weeks. I get a call because I sent a resume to this company called Cisco, and it was for sales, working for the VP of sales. I love sales, by the way. Sales people are so much fun. So I went over there to interview. The first thing was I had to wait for over an hour, which I found, um. This is crazy.

Speaker C: I think it was a test already back then.

Speaker A: I don't know.

Speaker C: Was a test.

Speaker A: Although it was a tell sign. So in the meantime, the CEOs, then John Morrid, his EA came in and interviewed me, right? We're sitting there, we've only been talking for about 10 minutes, and she goes, you know what? You're it.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: You're it. I'm. I'm approving you right now. I need something. I need something right now. And I went, okay. That should have been another sign. Uh-huh. She says, I'm going to go get John. I tell him to come. I'm going to tell him to wrap up and come. So John came in and, um, we hit it off almost immediately because he's Southern too. He's from Virginia, West Virginia, Mississippi. And we just talked and talked and talked. I think I was two hours into that interview, um, and he asked me a question. He said, what would it take for you to come and, uh, work for me? And I said, money. And that was the first thing I

Speaker C: love the honesty here cracked up.

Speaker A: And I said, well, not necessarily money, but to be appreciated, if I was appreciated, I would really love being working for you. And it was a 45 minute ride from my home to the Cisco offices. So I drove home and when I got through the door, my husband said, hey, there's somebody named John that's just called. He wants to talk to you. And I went, wow. I mean, and he made me an offer on the phone.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: So that was the start of our working together.

Speaker C: What year was it?

Speaker A: 1991. Wow. Um, okay. And I will tell you that the first two days he came in, he had a big smile on his face, and he had a green carnation in his hand. And he handed it to me. He said, welcome aboard, and by the way, I'm leaving tomorrow for Europe and I'll be gone for a couple weeks. And I went, what? I started working with this guy, and now he's leaving me.

Speaker C: Hello. Onboarding?

Speaker A: There wasn't any onboard boarding. There was no computer for me. They ordered it. It wasn't. And I had a phone. And I'm thinking, okay, what am I going to do in those weeks that he's not here?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but what's. What was really cool was that I. I started to really do sleuthing. I got into his office because he said that this is your office and mine. Nothing here sacred like briefcase. Anything you want, it's yours. Whoa. Trust was given right off the bat until I proved him wrong. And I didn't. He said, I'm giving you trust until you prove me wrong. And I did not ever prove him wrong. So I sleuthed, I looked through all his files. I looked at the notes on his desk, because, by the way, his desk was just. Just a mess. It was popcorn bags everywhere and daiko cans. And I'm like, wow, this guy's a slob. Right? And I'm looking through all his files and, uh, seeing who he's stay in touch with. And ultimately I cleaned everything up and organized everything and got, uh, to know the people around me. And, uh, it was a great couple weeks just to get my feet wet.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then he came home and, oh, my goodness, it was like a tornado had just arrived. First of all, didn't even notice that the office was. Was cleaned up.

Speaker C: And you read, redesigned it.

Speaker A: Where's my note that was here? And I realized, okay, so that's the way your mind. Um. And he destroyed the office within two hours. So I figured, okay, um, this is the kind of guy he is. And it took a lot to keep up with him. I'm going to tell you, it really did take a lot to keep up with him because he runs at a thousand miles an hour. He still does, even retired. Wow. Um, so he taught me so much about what it takes to be. In the end, he said, I want you to call my exact executive assistant back east and talking to her about me so you can Get a better sense of what I'm like. And that's kind of what I did. And, um.

Speaker C: And was it helpful? Did you talk a lot with her or just some initial calls?

Speaker A: I probably spent about 45 minutes with her on the phone. By the way, f side note, John had interviewed 17 candidates before me. That's why the CEOs EA said, you're in, you're in. Uh, because he was such a handful. But that made me very happy. Yeah, you know, we worked together, but no, I, I, I just had to learn on my own the kind of guy that he was. I really did.

Speaker C: So you said he, he had a huge amount of pace. Right.

Speaker A: Um, fast paced.

Speaker C: So what would you say when you look back after all these years of, of this collaboration and partnership, what made this team so successful, you mean? Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, well, first of all, very kind man, very patient man. Very, um, what's the word? He's very, um, charismatic. I could watch him and could tell everybody really enjoyed his company. And I did too. I was a little intimidated with the last first couple of years, but, uh, if he was going to give me feedback, it was always very, uh, mild, meaning constructive. Said Debbie. Let's talk about this. I mean, okay. Whenever he says Debbie, I knew that we were going to have a constructive conversation and. Right. He typically would do that in the future. I want you to do this and here's what you do. Um, he wasn't one to hand out a ton of compliments, but he was never hard to work for. And the other thing that made us really good, um, is that he and I love humor. Yeah. So we utilize a little humor periodically. And, um, it was, I got him sometimes and I was like, got you? He says, payback's a bitch.

Speaker C: And would you say that was really kind of the happened between you guys? Ah, you had this vibe.

Speaker A: It was just, you know, uh, one of the stories I'll tell about how communication was very important. I didn't realize that he was dyslexic for several years. And I always wondered when I was bringing stuff into him that he would kind of glaze over. And I realized, oh, I see, you're a visual. Mhm. So I had to start using visuals instead of, you know, these papers and.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: But communication was really mostly good. I remember once when he was calling from, calling from the plane and he worked so fast. He says, debbie, I've got to send this email to this customer, so I'm going to give it to you right now. I said, okay. And he starts rattling off everything he wants to say.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. Okay, okay. And then when he's done. You got it? And I said, get what? Uh, stolen silence. What? I just dictated to you. I said, oh, you need to write that down. And you could just hear the silence on his end, like. And finally, I repeated it word for word. Oh, I knew you were true. So we would do things like that all the time, just tease each other. Lots of. Lots of funny stories of teasing each other. But I think, um, his charisma, his relationship with people, his relationship with me, he cared. He seriously cared. He would stop. He wouldn't stop anything if I said, I got to talk to you about this, this, this. But if I said, I got to talk to you about something personal.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Stop everything and just listen to me. And then give his fatherly advice. Make me a lot of fatherly advice. Which, you know, I thought was very sweet of him.

Speaker C: M. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker A: He was. He's still an awesome man. Still.

Speaker C: And what would other people say that. Work with him about his leadership style? I mean, could. Could he be the tough John? Was he the one that challenged people? What would you say about that?

Speaker A: Well, um, John always respected everybody, so they would say he was very respectful, uh, even if you didn't do a good job, um, he. He would be very, um. He wouldn't yell at you. He would give you his feedback. He often told me, debbie, everybody deserves respect whether they make it here or not. Yeah. Uh, because he did care about everyone. And so I tried to emulate that behavior with everyone I dealt with. Um, even people that you don't necessarily like. He treated them wonderful. And I would always go, why are you treating that guy, that person, the way that you are? I mean, he's not a nice person. Right. But John was a nice person, so he treated people the way he would want to be treated. And I think that was his leadership. John. There's no one. I think they would ever say anything bad about him. Them. Even if they got let go from Cisco. Yeah. Because it was just his way, you know? And that's what I loved about him.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: You know, I, uh, enjoyed when you said. And have to read it here, um, you increased John's productivity by 40%. So what were the first levers you pulled to make that possible? Actually, because 40% is, like, huge number.

Speaker A: Well, first of all, how do you. I always ask this question. How do you gauge percentage?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, and I was like, where did that number come from? Right. Like, you were watching everything I do. But I think that the, the biggest thing, and this goes to any administrative professional, the biggest thing I did is stop trying to be the count. It was trying to raise my level of play beyond just scheduling. Okay, put that on the calendar. Put that on the calendar. It's all about obviously understanding their goals, their prayers, his goals. If it goes on the calendar, doesn't go on the calendar, all those things. He gave me carte blanche to do that. Right. But one day I said, you know, two stories. But one day I said, you know, I need to show him how he's spending his time.

Speaker C: Good.

Speaker A: Because he was just running. I was giving him the schedule. He's running, running, running, running, running.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: So one day I just did a whole analysis of a quarter. Mhm. Uh, and by the way, I've been asked this question and I can tell you the only thing I did was manual.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: I had a spreadsheet, everything categorized, I had it manually. Um, so the very first one on one we had, I had this kind of all prepared. And I said, oh, by the way, we're wrapping up. I said, by the way, I just want to share one thing. M. I said, did you know that you're spending 60% of your time in business operations? Mhm. And 20, 30% with the sales team and 10% with employees. And he's looking at me like that's, that can be. I, uh, don't want to be spending that much time in business operations. I need to be with the salespeople. I need to be transparent.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: So that shared with me and told me, yeah, he, he was changing his goals and priorities and I was going to help him change those. And that's what we did. We flipped switch.

Speaker C: Good.

Speaker A: So we stopped doing all that. Um, and that to me, really built me into his true business partner. Watching how, how he spends his time, making sure he was spending his time on the things he needed to and wanted to right now. The other thing about it, and I talk about this when I'm teaching, is that we are constantly being asked, get this person on the counter, get this person on the counter and you're doing where do I put this? And complaining it would get me nowhere. I mean, John said, just make it happen. True point. Oh. And so one day I said, you know what, let me do this analysis again. Mhm. How much open free time does he have this month? Mhm. And I scoured and scoured and I finally realized he had. And I told him this, I said, john, in the month of May, this month you have literally one and A half hours not scheduled and they're not back to back. But I just want you to know that was all I did was just tell him I didn't expect him to do anything with that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: All of a sudden this person comes up and here's my desk. And here's John standing at desk. And this person says, hey, John, I really want to get in with you to talk to you about this, this thing that I'm working on. And I think you're going to find it below. And I'm sitting there going, please, please don't ask me to put him on calendar. And he says, well, you know, I'm up to my backside and alligators this month, so why don't you talk with Debbie? Maybe we can see if we can get you in next month. And that's when I realized that worked.

Speaker C: He listened again.

Speaker A: Data.

Speaker C: Yes, data.

Speaker A: And I was giving him data. Whatever he did with it was his decision to make. But that was another turning point in terms, I utilized his time.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Advantage that I could. Um.

Speaker C: And imagine you did it all manually. Now I hear assistance doing, you know, the calendar audit with copilot and all these things. It's incredible. And it is so good that you have all these years back you did this already. Because that's when they start listening, when you give them facts and data. And um. And that's exactly what assistants are needing right now as well. Like, how can I show my true value, what impact I have in my role? So that was a really good reminder to really, really, you know, be, uh, able to protect the time and to make them aware what time is spent.

Speaker A: Asset administrator runs is their time. Their leader's time is extremely valuable.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, and I was not tell me what to do kind of person. It was like if he would say, put this on the calendar, I would ask him why. Not all the time. But if it didn't make sense to me. Mhm. And it wasn't because I was trying to question his judgment. Mhm. I needed to understand how he was thinking, why does this be? Why is this more important than this? Why do you want to cancel this so that I. Or why do you want to reschedule it? And I think that's another thing that administrators need to be very good about is asking the right questions. Not questioning the leader's judgment, but questioning so that they can learn totally what makes sense and what doesn't make sense. Because I just never wanted to be told, put this on the counter. Mhm. And there are administrators that just do that, you know, here, get this on the calendar. And don't even bother to say, how is this important?

Speaker C: And sadly to say there's always a lack of time of, you know, sitting together asking the right questions. So I can only imagine how many times you had to chase John because of his schedule or did you have a routine of a one on one.

Speaker A: Um, I never got. In the early years, even up to the latter years, I never got one on ones unless I was really, really, really, really in, in in. But I came up with this one cool technique that start. That started to work where I had a countertop and as he walked out, I would put like interesting articles. I put emails. I love you. John's popcorn. Yeah, and popcorn. Oh, I used, uh, peanut M Ms. Too. He loved those.

Speaker B: Oh, good.

Speaker A: M. But as he would walk out and his. He would stop and he would read. Good on that. Smart. And I would get one minute to say, hey, are you wanting to go to that dinner tomorrow night? And they up and go, yeah, put it down. So I would get a minute or two during the course of the day. And that worked. But everyone around me saw that I was getting the attention on. So all of a sudden I'd come in and I have all these papers on the countertop of please sign this and please do this. And they would say, I'm just going to leave that here, Deb. And then when he comes back. Yeah. And then when they would walk away and slide it down off the countertop because it was losing its. If you put too much work up there, he would, oh, yeah. To me. So that's kind of how I started getting the one on ones, uh, and spending some time with them. And when you did have very fast question, tons of questions I had to be prepared for.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I can't imagine.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker C: But what would you say? How long did it take you to really keep up with that speed? Was there a certain phase where you felt like, will I manage?

Speaker A: It was probably. And I would look for him for 26 years. I would say it was probably at least 10 years before I started to really get into the groove. Now, I will candidly tell you, there was a point where the workload was very overwhelming. He generated enough work for six executives. And I finally did an analysis of my own job and what I was spending time on and where my time was being sucked up. And I literally sat down with him and one of my rare one on ones and showed him, here's how much time I'm spending here. Here and here. And I think this stuff can be relegated to hr. This stuff, uh, I'm not trying to get rid of my job, but I'm telling you for you and me to be focused. Um, my emails alone take me hours. So I asked, can I get a partner to help me? Mhm. And he looked at me for a minute, goes, yeah, you can. Because data, again, proven to be valuable to him.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I made suggestions. I gave him solutions, moved this piece to hr. I don't need to be handling it. And when you go in because you're overwhelmed, you have to have a plan. And that worked very important. And uh, candle again. And I had a, had two unbelievable partners that I still wanted, I still love to death. Um, at one point I had three.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: That's how much work he was generating. But then he, then he ultimately had communication managers. He had a whole team surrounding him, which helped me too.

Speaker C: And back in the days, were there already these kind of chief of staff positions that he owned as well?

Speaker A: No, that chief of staff wasn't even a word when I was there. And John never had a.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: He had a, uh, communications manager. Right. And all of a sudden now Diana, chief of staff for every executive. I don't understand everywhere.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, because a good executive assistant who played at my level is a chief of staff in so many ways now. No, you don't actually go out and, and execute on the strategies as much as other people do. Um, but I think in the long run, and I'll also tell you that, that as I became the, as he became CEO, uh, it took for a little while, I said to John, you know, I want a title change. He said, what do you want it to be? And I said, I want it to be chief executive assistant. I said, there's nobody else doing this job.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: There's nobody else in this entire company that has this job. He looked at me with this big smile on his face. He said, well, if you want it, you can have it, but don't come with a raise. So I didn't get any raises for it. I got, got compensated, uh, well, anyway, but.

Speaker C: But you got that title.

Speaker A: Yeah, that title to myself. And actually some of my peers at that time.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: All started adopting the chief executive assistant title.

Speaker C: And, and it's, it's fantastic. I've never seen that title again. Debbie, have you seen it in the market somewhere?

Speaker A: No, no, it's actually advertising for chief executive assistants.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: You stand up for and say, this is what I want.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Promote HR are off. Because they have these little magic tears. Yeah, this is this and this and this.

Speaker C: Um, and you know, I really love what you did in this role as well, because you designed career development, training and recognition programs and you also over a thousand assistants across the globe. So, uh, how did it all start, you know, like bringing this community together and you know, this shared excellence among such a large group. What was your vision?

Speaker A: Uh, well, I didn't really have a vision, uh, but I cared, you know, and I'm a big fairness fan. And I m really also am a big communicator. And one thing I realized is in my role at the top, that I needed to communicate out. Hm. These administrators down in these areas and EAs at this areas, they actually needed to know, you know, a lot of what I knew. Not confidential, but a lot of things that I knew. And, um, I think that over time, being that communicator for them, being that person, sharing stories, bringing them together, uh, gave me, quote, unquote, unquote a leadership role. Even though I said, hey, I want to be your leader, right? But the big thing that really changed my life again in my career was hr. Uh, we were hiring butts and seats. We were hiring so many people, administrators, you name it. And we were growing exponentially. And HR came to me. She was sweet. She stands in my desk because, you know, we're hiring all these new hire administrators and I think you really should get in front of them and share with them what the Cisco culture is all about. And I just looked at her and I said, you're nuts. No, I'm not getting in front of a group of people. That's not going to happen. She goes. And she didn't leave. She just stood there. She said, debbie, you're the only one that can do this. See? And I said, no, no, no. I pushed back. And then she said, well, what if we got you a coach? I said, uh, if you get me a coach that shows me how to do this get in front of a group of people presentation. So I did get a coach. He was awesome. Um, and my very first time of getting in front of 30 newbies, administrators, all excited to be at Cisco, and I'm just scared to death. And m. Uh, I started, started doing this presentation and it was very visual, it was very funny. And I threw balls in the air and said, catch them. That's what's going to be like a Cisco. It's crazy.

Speaker C: I love that.

Speaker A: Um, it was a lot of fun. And then at the end, everybody was laughing, everybody was getting it and I was like, wow. And I remember walking out of that room that day and saying, this is what I'm meant to do. Mhm. This is where I'm meant to see. They love it. Teach them and they will thrive. And uh, that changed my world again because I started teaching exact classes there.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: So again it just the community and my closeness to them just grew.

Speaker C: And, and so you have to owe it actually that HR person that obviously saw these strengths in you and pushed you in a gentle way to do it right.

Speaker A: And now it's how my courage grew and grew. Uh, they loved me and I loved them. And uh, I have never felt that again. Even when I've been on stage, uh, in many different companies with many different administrative people in the audience. That particular moment in time when I was on stage at Cisco, they just made me feel like the best thing since sliced bread.

Speaker C: And I love the fact that you were so honest and saying that. I pushed back in the beginning. I don't know if I wanted it right, if I could do it. I got a coach and I know a lot of, of assistants are afraid to step up and to really go into that meeting and not only be the minute taker because that's what AI is doing now. Right. So why not be the moderator? So what is your advice? You might want to give out to those who are right now in the phase of stepping up, finding their voice because communication is one of your major topics that you teach. And um, how would you say how they should do it? To own the room and get a little of executive presence as well to feel comfortable.

Speaker A: Actually I'm teaching a workshop here at the end of June on executive presence. Good communication with confidence. And you have to build it, it doesn't come overnight. Uh, it's amazing. Even reading the greatest book Ever by Amy Cuddy on presence, you don't realize that even the way you sit or the way you talk or your body language is amazing. Um, I do think that you have to, you should take a bold move or take a, take a risk or even if it's a baby step, take baby steps. And as you take baby steps it gets better and easier and easier and easier. So by the time I left Cisco it was a no brainer. I mean I walk in a room and I'm just going to command command attention. But it wasn't all that like that. And so I think for administrators that want to get the voice. Mhm. Start looking at how you show up and your presence and then you may need some Training, you may need some help. Sometimes we try to do it all on our own. I'm one of those kind of people that try to do it all on my own and find out maybe I could have used some help. I had some great coaches throughout my career too. I think coaching is another wonderful thing that administrators should take advantage of or leaders do.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So absolutely.

Speaker C: Yeah. And that's good advice. Definitely. And as you said, it's not happening overnight. So get great mentors around you as well. You know, hang around with people that

Speaker A: have a lot of confidence and then ultimately you can build your own confidence. Absolutely. You look at John, by the way,

Speaker C: you still talk to him. You, you're still connected.

Speaker A: Yeah, we do. We just maybe we don't see each other very often. I do know one thing. If I texted him and said, I need to talk to you, I, um, he's 22 seconds later he said, what do you need? Yeah, uh, but he's very, very, very busy man. And he's, he's doing venture capital, right? Yeah, well, he's gotten down to four days a week. He took Fridays off. Now I heard I'm, uh, very good friends with his chief of staff. She used to be his comms manager. And so if I want to see him, I do have to schedule myself. Um, but I always tell her to make me the last meeting on the list because I know how he runs.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I will wait forever, but I want to be the last, last person he sees before we end the day. Uh, and I just will always, always love him. Always love them. And we always text once in a while, like, love you. I love you too.

Speaker C: It's wonderful.

Speaker A: I do think so.

Speaker C: It was for sure a special moment. Retiring together with him, kind of. Right. You know, 26 years is huge, huge number. So how did you feel? How was it leaving the door? And you know that this, this chapter was over where?

Speaker A: Uh, well, I didn't really know or think about being over. Um, when I learned that he was stepping into chairman and Maritas and the other CEO was going to be on. Mhm. Uh, but I had to send out these emails to everyone he ever knew, partners, customers. And I remember those two days, that was a lot of emails. And I'm typing them and I'm sending them, and I'm typing them, I'm sending them. And suddenly it just, just, this is happening. This is really happening. I mean, I had been in denial. This is happening. And I remember I started to feel weird, like, wow, what's going to happen next what's he going to do?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And um, he actually, uh, stayed Chairman Emeritus for a while. And, and uh, that in itself became very weird because uh, I noticed this. People would walk by our desk in our offices to go to the other CEOs place, not even really saying hi. People that would stop and say, this is what the whole politics of the office is all about. And I was starting to think, wow, this feels weird. Normally someone will stop in and say, hey, can I talk to you for a minute? And none was happening. And one day I just went to John, I said, john, we are the parents in the kids house and we need to move out.

Speaker C: Okay?

Speaker A: And he looked at me and he goes, okay. There were a couple things that started to become the catalyst for him to decide to leave because he didn't want to leave. This was his brainchild. I mean he was, this was his kid.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And I knew it was hard. I knew it was hard for him. And I knew that once he left, I wasn't going to work for another CEO. He was just a, uh, one of a kind.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: But there was one day and I always put, I think I wrote it in the book, but there was one day. We used to have these smart boards. I think that's a smart board where you can write everything. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, and anytime anyone would come in with great ideas or this or that engineering, he'd have them writing it on the smart board. But he never wanted it to be erased. I mean, the smart board was from floor to ceiling.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Of M formulas and org charts, all kinds of things. It was one day when he was out of the office and I, I, I knew we were getting close to leaving. I had to go in there. Uh, and my, my partner said, well, why don't you just call facilities, they'll come in and take care of it. I said, no, it's mine. Mhm. And I remember that took hours I can't imagine and some fumes.

Speaker C: Oh yeah.

Speaker A: But I erased that whole white wall. And that's when I just said this is it.

Speaker C: This is.

Speaker A: And it's, it kind of hurt, you know? Yeah, uh, absolutely. I donated my, I had a, in my open cubicle area and I donated that bookcase to an EA next door to me. Who put, actually didn't use it for books was heartbreaking. But um, the day we left, he, it was the board day. Okay. Board meeting in December. And I sat there and waited till the board was over. And he came walking in and grabbed his stuff. We'd already cleaned his Office out. It was empty. He says, okay, we're ready to go. I said, okay, grab my stuff up and we go into the elevator and we walk down. When the elevator came to the floor, there was a line of employees out the door. Oh, to say goodbye to. Not me, but to say goodbye to him. And he shook and hugged everybody all the way out that door. And I just, uh, we stopped outside the door. We looked up, we looked at each other, we high fived each other. And he went his way and I went my way. And it was almost like this huge weight had lifted over my shoulder because. Because now I didn't have to take care of him.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Have to worry. The scheduling, the calendaring, the people. That was gone.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: That was gone. Um, I won't say that it was easy in the first year afterwards, the first couple weeks I was on vacation. But then over time, I actually was having a hard time with it. And then I got a coach because I needed someone to help me step past this whole thing.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: And the coach said something to me that was so amazing after a couple coaching sessions. She said, you're grieving. Mhm. That's what you're doing. Grieving over the role you had. Mhm. You haven't quite created the role you're going to do. And I said, okay, I'll accept that. It makes me feel better than I'm grieving it. Uh, because being retired isn't all it's up, you know.

Speaker C: Oh yeah. So when was then the moment where you felt like, here's the energy. This is now what I'm doing with the teaching and I'm going to go full speed in now. I want to share my knowledge, what I've gained at Cisco. Because that was the second career you had and you still are in this career. I mean, you are such an advocate for our profession. Uh, so many speakers adore you. So when was this shift also that happened where you felt like, like I'm back at full speed now. Well, doing my own thing. I'm my own CEO.

Speaker A: I think I've. There was a, you know, building your own business. If you know Dynamics is crawl. It's a crawl.

Speaker C: It is.

Speaker A: I had to build a lot of things. The social media part, the things I don't normally know how to do, even getting an editor to help me with my book. Right. That book took a year to write. In fact, the story about that book is I went up to see John shortly after we left. Uh, I was having lunch with him in his patio and me tell Me. What's. I had a book already in editor's hand. It's called did that Just really Happen? Which was all about the funny side of the world.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And he says, debbie, why are you writing that book?

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Because I want the ministry to know they're human and they can make mistakes and people love each other. He goes, that's not the book you should be writing. M. He said, the book you should be writing is how you made us successful at Cisco. That's the book that's going to sit on a shelf and people are going to use it. Yeah. So back to the drawing board. Took me a year to get that one together. I had a great editor. She helped me with so many ways to get that book together. And that was kind of sort of the platform of my building my business. Um, and I knew I wanted to teach classes and um, for a while. And then Covid hit. I had contracts and it was great. And I was going to be going out there. And then Covid hit, which totally. Mhm. Crashed, uh, everything there.

Speaker C: Yep. I've been there too.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I pivoted. I wish I had bought stock in Zoom because then I would have been even more rich today. But I started doing Zoom classes. Um, and the first year after that, first year and a half after that, it was good. I was busy. I was, you know, doing classes every week. Um, but then something happened and I don't know if it was just life changing or I made some mistakes, by the way, Dan, and teaching. It was a couple things. I actually went to one of, one of my very early clients and thanked her for the feedback I got. Mhm. Because I was building my workbooks, I was building the classes and. Mhm. And uh, made some mistakes. And I think over time I've learned from those mistakes on what you should do and what you shouldn't do. Especially on the Zoom. Mhm. Um, so I would say a couple years into my business, I was really, really rocking and rolling. Uh, I joined an organization that I wish I had now because I was looking for camaraderie. But you make mistakes. And I've made mistakes, but oftentimes, almost always I learned from the mistakes I've made. And now like, uh, I was sharing with you before. Now I really want to slow it down. I don't need to be working at that fast pace anymore. My husband and I are retired, we're traveling, we're doing all kinds of things together. And so now I would really just work when I want to work. Uh, I want to Help, that's one thing I will say. I want to help people who want to be helped.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: You know, if you reach out to me and you want my help, I'll help you. Right. But I never force feed anybody to do that. Right now I'm helping some EAs working on their resumes, how to interview.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Things that they need to really understand. Um, but uh, I'm not going to force feed anybody in terms of what I offer. But yeah, it kind of went up after and then it kind of slowed down and now it's just, to me

Speaker C: it's just, it's a perfect pace.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And everyone, we're going to of course bring all the details, uh, regarding Debbie's offers and you know, your signature topics into the show notes. And of course you're going to hear um, more about the book. So I love that title, the Office of October Rockstar. So now with these dynamic times we're in, and let's be honest, and we talked about this before we hit the record button, it's not easy for a lot of admins out there. So what do you think? What is the mindset they need to have in order to be Office Rockstar?

Speaker A: Well, I'm going to talk a little bit first about the title because you brought it up.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Uh, I, I, I was thrashing about what the title would be.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Thrashing and thrashing and thrashing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Should this title be? It can't be the typical title. And I remember I was away on a weekend and uh, the beach. I never slept the entire night. I rocked and rolled and rocked and rolled and all of a sudden it was probably around three in the morning. I went, that's it, that's the title I want.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that's how that came about. I think the one thing that I would say about the book, it's not like a normal, it's not the normal how to book M. There are stories that maybe administrators can relate to. There's strategies that I use, very simple strategies that you didn't think about until after you, you know, and those outlined in the book. Mhm. And I also want an assistance to know that it's okay to be human.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And that they're going to have human moments all the time in their roles. But taking risks, necessary, calculated risk, ultimately can lead to their success. I mean taking risk to do a book like that. I mean, I don't know if it was going to go well well or not totally going really well. I still sell it every time on Amazon.com always amazes me.

Speaker C: That's wonderful.

Speaker A: Um, uh, but again this the thing I want to say to the administrative professionals out there now. It's not all about being technology savvy.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Because I didn't have those technologies and I still did an amazing job. And you know you have some that go. Yeah. But you know, by the way, I do love chat GPT.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: I have my own AI assistant now.

Speaker C: I got your agent, he's awesome.

Speaker A: Um, but it's developing and using what I call those timeless skills. How to communicate with people. All different kinds of communication styles. How to up level the emotional intelligence to deal with, have the patience to building relationships and stress and time management. Boy, I had to learn that really quickly.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: You'll burn out if you don't. You know I have what I call the office. This uh, rockstar focus. Mhm. Management, uh, class. Right. It's not time management. It's how we utilize focus that we have.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, and just getting a deeper understanding of business, who we support. M and, and uh, I think all of those come into play in that book in some way, shape or form. Mhm. Um. And so, so that's kind of the message. I would say don't take this as a how to book. Take it as a journey. And you'll learn from my journey. You'll pick up what I call golden nuggets and go I'm going to try that. I'm going to do that. This could be cool.

Speaker C: And you've been sharing some of these nuggets what you did already during our talk, which was such a very important reminder. Um, so what do you hear from your clients at the moment? Is there respect, is there fear in terms of the future? Or do you see that they are motivated to get out there to do, you know, show them, hey, there's so much more in an EA role than uh, what AI is doing right now. And are they ready to fight?

Speaker A: Some are, some aren't. There is fear. There's feared AI is going to take over their jobs. Uh, the executive assistants and assistants that use AI will not be replaced. In fact a lot of companies are looking for AI experience. They still want the good administrative support. Um, I do think right now it's a very crazy world. There's too many confusing tools that are being asked to use. Uh, again they're being asked to use AI. Um, I also am afraid of and I see this, there's one to many support. So I always talk about being a business partner.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: It's really hard to Be a business partner when you have five executives. Mhm. So the key is to learn how to manage your time and learn five executives versus just one. Um, the traditional role I think is slowly fading into the sunset. But what I, in my last workshop, uh, what I really tried to impress is it's not even called an executive assistant anymore. Yeah. You have to start thinking about, I am a business partner, therefore I need to know strategies. I need to be able to do analysis and will use AI. I need to get to know you. I need to do more than just calendaring, you know, or expense reports or travel generators.

Speaker C: It's.

Speaker A: It's way beyond that. Right. So I try to get EAs and AAs to see it in a bit. A different light.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah. To raise their level of play. Because once they do that, the fear should go away. You know, that's where I see that it's, you know, you're either going to be, as John said, you're going to. Left behind unless you get on board.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: I'm trying to get them to see that. And when I do these boot camps and I talk about that, you can see the, uh. Yes, I see what you're saying. You're right. I've been playing small. Playing small.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Instead of playing the business partner role that you should be. And I'm not saying that the leaders. The leaders have something to do with this too. Because there's not a lot of young. There's a lot of young leaders out there that don't get it.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, I think if you're an EA and you're working for a young leader, you do have to be assertive to some degree to say, hey, I can do that for you. Mhm. You know, and start to train them because some of them do need to be.

Speaker C: But it's good that you're offering the executive presence training. So everyone reach out to Debbie if you need some, you know, one on one coaching. If you want to work on that as well. Because you know, you, you need to train that assertiveness, right? Oh yeah. And you know, be there, have that strong voice, offer yourself, pitch yourself. I love the fact that we. Exactly.

Speaker A: Market yourself. Yeah. And you see that when you're. When I'm coaching someone who's looking for a job, uh, I'll look at their resume and say, this doesn't tell me anything about you, by the way. Everything you're listing that you do, every EA does it. What do you do that most eas don't do.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And they never thought they don't ever. Oh, well, I never thought about it that way. I said tell your story. It's about who you are.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's not about laundry list of everything.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, so, so that's kind of where I try to go in getting them to. I would love to see this generation become more, not even be called executive assistance anymore. We used the word business partnership years ago. Um, nobody really knew what that was. What do you mean? Business?

Speaker C: Yeah, true. I can't wait to see. By the way, the new global skills matrix is launching in a couple of weeks. So I think it's going to be also a few changes coming up there in terms of the, the roles and you know, how are we going to split all those, uh, you know, areas. So I was just talking to Lucy the other day. Um, they are very excited to, to launch it a couple of weeks. Yep. And there will be a few changes obviously in terms of AI and the adoption and everything. So we won't see the same scheme from the last time. So I think that will be also very helpful to, to do your pitching and to be aware. Okay, where am I positioned? What's the next level? Is even the chief of staff attractive for me? Right. Because we really see a lot of miscommunication around this role out there. Um, and so I think that's going to be very helpful also for us trainers obviously to showcase this. So you know what, uh, the last question. I'm picturing you and John, you know, imagine you would be still working together in now this world of AI. How would I see like the day to day operation? Would John be that kind of kid going into AI playing with it or would he say Deb, this is what

Speaker B: you're going to do.

Speaker C: You're going to teach me all of that. You're going to build these agents, you're going to do all the automation. So what would you say if you would be working in that phase right now? How would it look like?

Speaker A: I think I'd be training John actually. See uh, just a cute story. Uh, I showed John Pandora on his iPhone. I said John, you know you could have everybody radio station. Right. This was so many years ago. And I showed him and he's like, that is so cool. So I could see be being the front runner of the AI, uh, and then showing John how to use AI. But you're right, he'd say Debbie, you just make it happen. See, I just want to do it. I just want to get out there. I think now, uh, he's probably Done touching and feeling AI since we we together. But I think if we were together, he would want me to be the one and then just deal with it. Right.

Speaker C: And I was hoping you're going to say that because it gives us a motivation boost that everyone that joins the conversation now is listening to that. This is exactly. That's an opportunity for you to teach that your bosses, you know, teach them

Speaker A: how you exactly how you use it.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I mean Google was my friend. That was. Now I can't even imagine. I mean, I wish I'd had this. You know, when you put into chat gbt, tell me the 5 star restaurants in all of New York.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And in seconds you get it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Googling. And we had to do all this.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: The time that I spent, uh, two point was just amazing. Now that you don't have to do that, but knowing how to use those tools at building your processes that allow those tools to help you. AI is the administrative professional's assistant.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Mine's name's Soul.

Speaker C: Oh, uh, nice.

Speaker A: She has a voice.

Speaker C: I love it.

Speaker A: So I'd rather just see her touch. I want to see her talking. I showed my husband the other day, said, I want you to meet my AI assistant. And he came into my office, said, so, hi Debbie, how can I help you? He's like, the hell is that? I said, that's my new assistant.

Speaker C: I love that name. By the way. Debbie, it has been such an honor talking to you and you know, it makes me even prouder that you said it's your first podcast. You have been on first podcast and

Speaker A: I'm so thankful to and honored that you had asked me what my tricks were.

Speaker C: And you know, um, you've been such an icon out there for many and um, also seeing you with Terry here, you know, the friendship you have and being here with you, of course, uh, it was an honor having you here and of course talking you through your career. And uh, I think you gave us hope in this conversation, so.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: So everyone enjoy, uh, the conversation and now we're going to have a nice lunch together. Thank you so much, Deb.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. I appreciate

Speaker C: that.

Speaker B: Was Executive Office Insights, the podcast for everyone shaping the future of the modern office. I hope you found valuable insights and inspiration for your own journey. If you enjoyed this episode, I would truly appreciate a five star rating on your favorite favorite podcast platform. Not only does it support me, but it also helps others discover the podcast and benefit from these exciting conversations. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And feel free to share it with anyone interested in executive support, leadership and modern office management. Thank you for tuning in and see you in the next episode of Executive Office Insights.

Speaker A: Sam.