Ep. 257 - Your Body Knows: How to Heal Stress and Burnout From the Inside Out

Speaker A: M hello listeners.

Speaker B: We are your co hosts Janine Bailey and Marie Quigley for the Empower World coaching and leadership podcast. Empower World brings guests who are making a difference to the world to inspire coaches and leaders who lead with mind, heart and soul. Hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in the world. As you know, my name's Marie Quigley and today's coaching podcast episode is with the amazing Hind Taichori. Hind, I hope I'm saying your name correct.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's Tayshori.

Speaker B: Tayshori. Beautifully much, much more beautifully said than my first version. You're, uh, uh, based in Perth, Australia. So thank you for coming to the podcast in your evening time. I appreciate that.

Speaker A: Thank you for having me.

Speaker B: You're a trauma trained somatic coach and a nervous system educator. And you support high performers, leaders and mission driven humans to come home to themselves. I love that phrasing around that. To heal from chronic stress, prevent burnout, and thrive from a place that enhances their health and wholeness. You're rooted in somatic experience, polyvagal theory, ifs parts work, yoga and applied neuroscience. And I know you from a number of years now, Hind, and I know how wise you are and how calm you are to my nervous system when I'm around you. So thank you for being with us today.

Speaker A: Thank you for having me, Marie. And likewise, I also feel calm and I, I feel that my heart opens when I'm in your presence. So thank you for having me.

Speaker B: Oh, you're welcome. So we had a little bit of a conversation, uh, before we joined together and we had an idea that might help both of us as we're having a conversation, but also as our listeners before we start this conversation, Hind. So I'm going to hand it over to you.

Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you, Marie. So, yeah, I mean, um, it's always, um, I get nervous when I want to speak up and speak on podcasts and on camera. So for this reason I invite us all, you and me, Marie, and the listeners, to just tune inwards, find our center, take a couple of breaths. Maybe if you are seated, just feel your feet on the ground and feel your sitting bones on the chair. If you're driving, please keep your eyes open and just connect to the here and now, to the present moment, and maybe allow your eyes to roam around your space, just looking at objects, colors and shapes and maybe finding something plain, pleasant, a glimmer. Yeah, I already feel more settled, less nervous.

Speaker B: Me too.

Speaker A: And ready, Ready for this conversation.

Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you for that. I think we Forget as professionals to take care of ourselves some of the time and we're human. Right. Ah, when we're uh, sharing thoughts with the world, it can be a little bit nerve wracking inside our bodies. We respond maybe from a younger version of ourselves and um, absolutely, yeah, I, I appreciate because I fluffed up the uh, podcast a couple of times before joining because of my nerves and I'm fluffed up my words and I notice when I'm in a state of breathing and calm and noticing as you helped us go through there, how different it feels to be present with myself and you.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It's really, really important, um, to check in every once in a while to get a sense of the ground that is holding us and the chair that is supporting us and look around us away from the screens, away from the thoughts in our heads and just to take in the beauty around us. Yeah.

Speaker B: Thank you for that. So hin, we've known each other for a few years and we met in our uh, both a place that we both called home in Qatar. And now you're in Australia and it's been wonderful to see your journey evolve. So take the listeners through how you came into the work you're doing now. Where did it all start?

Speaker A: Well, you'll be surprised, Marie. It all started um, in my training, uh, with Empower World Coach training. And it was a training that was very um, inspirational for me and it allowed me to tap into my power. And I remember in one of our sessions you got us to draw a um, drawing. And in the drawing it was everything related to the body, to movement, to inner peace, inner calm. And also in one of our mentoring sessions together, maybe in 2021 or 2022, I remember telling you, Marie, I want to be skillful in what I do. I want to be masterful in what I do. And soon after that I realized, yes, we know the way of how to become masterful. We can practice, we can do more sessions, we can get supervision, mentoring. But I also realized there was a piece that was very important for me which was the um, inner mastery, the mastery of my inner world, inner parts, those younger parts that you just talked about, and energy. How do I work with my internal energy to take um, meaningful and purposeful action in the world. Um, so yeah, this took me to somatic experiencing, which is a trauma healing modality. And uh, it's based, it's a bottom up approach, body based approach based on the nervous system and releasing stored survival stress that is stored in our nervous system. And um, and Then other modalities like ifs, polyvagal theory. I'm trained by Deb Dana, uh, Stephen Porges, and my work involves educating people about their nervous system. Because some of us, just like myself, years ago, I never knew about it, what is my nervous system? What is my. What is fight and flight? Freeze, Fawn. So after learning all of that, it really made sense to me why I do the things I do or why I don't do the things I want to do. And, um, so I educate individuals about that, and from there they can lead and design their life in a way that respects their unique, um, capacity and nervous system. And also, uh, which is the part that I really, really love about coaching, which is empowering people to expand this capacity to feel the discomfort. Not the distress, but the discomfort. For example, like now I'm really nervous when I go out there and speak, but I'm doing it. I'm doing the hard thing to expand my nervous system capacity to do more of that. And so basically, my work all evolves about bringing people back to the wisdom of their body and helping them uncover their potential and how to move forward without overwhelm and burnout and from a place of survival.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for sharing that hind. You said a couple of things, and, um, some of our listeners will know what they mean and some won't. So you mentioned ifs, so you and I know what that means. But what does that mean?

Speaker A: So IFS stands for internal Family Systems. And if I'm gonna, um, explain it briefly and simply. It's like we have inner parts of ourselves that is, are still stuck in places and time of woundings, hurt and trauma, and did not get the memo, the update that now we are adults, we are empowered, and. And they still act from that place. And, um, they do things to protect us from the overwhelm that we once felt in the past and to manage. So sometimes we sense that, um, they are in the driver's seat, they're leading the way in our lives. Um, they are the ones taking decisions and. And, um. But when we connect within to these parts and we know them and we feel what they feel, and we ask them what are they afraid would happen if they stop doing that? And that then we realize that they only need, um, a corrective experience. They need to be heard, seen, and empowered as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I'd add loved as well. Um, absolutely. Yeah. For those who want to know a little bit more about ifs, have a look at Richard Schwartz's work. He's the developer of Ifs. And he's got a wonderful book called no Bad Parts. So we. We often think and judge ourselves from a place of criticism, but those parts also want something good for us, and if we can love them instead of trying to get rid of them, they tend to calm down. Right, Hind?

Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, I had the wildest journeys with my inner critic. She's wild, but I. Yeah, but I learned to, um, to love, understand, and know, um, where she comes from.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, me too. Uh, we've had some big conversations, me and my. Definitely many more than one critic in. In Within Me. And then you talked about Stephen Porges work, and, uh, I'd love to hear how you came across that. And what was it that drove you to train with his philosophy?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, um, I reached a stage in my life where I was completely burnt out. And I got a diagnosis from the psychiatrist that I have anxiety. And he specifically said, because I was crying when I heard that, I thought, oh, my God, it's a diagnosis. I have anxiety. Then my life is ruined. I'm done. That's it. So I was crying, and he. I mean, he told me, well, it's all right. You're not the only woman. You can take pills for the rest of your life just like any other woman. And I can sense, Marie, what you're sensing in your body right now, I can see. Yeah.

Speaker B: So I felt that I'm managing myself here. Hindering. Right.

Speaker A: I felt that, and I was like, no, I'm not gonna accept that. That's not okay. That's not right. I'm a young person. I'm overwhelmed. I'm burned out. Um, I passed through very difficult phase, uh, in my life, and I'm not gonna accept this as my solution. And, you know, Maria, I believe I was divinely guided on the Internet because I'm a seeker. I'm always asking questions. I look for things. And from one person to another, one video to another, I arrived to, uh, polyvagal theory, nervous system regulation. And somebody, uh, on the Internet was talking that anxiety is not what you think it is, but it is trapped, uh, emotions and trapped energy in the body. And I'm like, okay, this is what I need to do. I need to learn that. And after that, I decided to learn, um, somatic experiencing, which is the work of Dr. Peter Levine. And basically, they complement each other. So one of them gives you the understanding of the nervous system, all the different states that our autonomic nervous system gets into, and what's the way out if we get stuck into Them and, and to love them and unshame them because they are part of our human experience. And somatic experiencing was. It really taught me how to feel and be in the body and skillfully track the sensations and the uncomfortable sensations that we all try to avoid and move away from.

Speaker B: M. That's such a lovely journey. And knowing both of that, their work, not in the capacity that you do hind, um, I really appreciate the science that they bring behind what's happening to us because there's many people that can, uh, kind of wipe that off the table thinking it's not important, but actually there's a real science behind what's happening in our body. And so I'm a practitioner and I'm really fascinated by how people manage things like the part of them that is anxious. You know, I've got clients who will come to me and say I have anxiety. Uh, uh, and I'll say, well, which part of you is anxious? And then they'll realize, oh my goodness, it's not all of me, it's just a part of me. So when you got that diagnosis, when you saw porges work and you experienced looking at your anxiety, what. What happened? What happened in the process for you?

Speaker A: Well, at the beginning it was, um. It was very difficult for me to understand it. So I really immersed myself in lots of courses, trainings, um, um, somatic therapy sessions for me to understand that. But then something beautiful started to happen is when. When we feel the discomfort in the body, we tend to contain it, we tend to have more capacity to be with it. And then we realize that it doesn't stay the same. It shifts, it changes. And as you said, Marie, it's not all of us. It's a part of us. So by doing so, by connecting, by feeling the uncomfortable sensations. But slowly, in somatic experiencing, we always say we do that in titration, little by little, drop by drop. So, um, the key here, the trick in somatic experiencing is not to avoid the discomfort, but also not to be overwhelmed by it. You know, not to jump right ahead into it. So little by little, I was starting to have more capacity. I. I would start to feel these anxious waves in my body, but they don't, um, take over me anymore. So ever since I came to Australia and I see surfers on the beach, I always say that to my clients, um, or explorers. As you, as I learned from you a couple of days ago, um, it's when, when you come on the surfing board, you, you first, it's messy, but then you start to learn how to stabilize your feet on it and then you're able to ride the wave instead of crashing into it. So this is what started to happen for me to ride the wave of discomfort until it moved out of my body. And it took a couple of years, but it finally moved out of my body.

Speaker B: Amazing. Mhm. Experience. Thank you for sharing that process. I know that in my experience, many people are afraid of looking at the challenging thing that they're experiencing because they don't want it to get worse. They have a belief, you know, like in the old days, don't talk about it because if you don't talk about it, it'll go away, it won't get bigger. So don't feel. Because if you feel it, then it's going to get worse. But the opposite is true from what you're saying and what the researchers are saying. And I, uh, think back to Brene Brown's work on shame and she talks about if we hide shame, it just gets bigger, but if we shine the light on just has to shrink because. Yeah, same thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And so if you've got a client who is coming and is uh, nervous, a part of them is nervous to look at the nervous part of them. All right, the anxious part of them. How do you support them to get into a state they can be with that part and look at it perhaps as David Schwartz. Love with love or compassion or connection at Richard's part. Sorry.

Speaker A: Yeah, beautiful. Um, so the first thing is resourcing. Before we jump into the trauma or the um, uncomfortable part, we resource ourselves. We equip ourselves with capacity to be with. And this resourcing could be something as little as how we just started looking for something pleasant in our environment, a glimmer and as little as, and as powerful as sensing the feet on the ground, the sitting bones on the chair, that we are held right here, right now. And the most powerful thing is the presence of the practitioner and the facial expressions. And if you, Marie, are accepting me right now the way I am and um, um, not making big deal out of my nervousness, but creating space for my nervousness to just be. It will shift. So these three components, these three elements are very, very important. And then we do that. We tune inwards to the discomfort. But with titration, we don't have to stay there all the time. We just dip our toe just a little bit and then we go back to resourcing. So we pendulate. There's also the concept of pendulation. So we move into the unpleasant for A little. And then we go to somewhere pleasant, then we do that again. And that this, this dance between pleasant and unpleasant really creates space in our nervous system for this, this discharge to happen, to release and to regain more capacity and balance.

Speaker B: Wow, I'm really feeling it as you're talking. I notice my body's moving. Notice your body's moving. And the word titration is new to me, so thank you for sharing that. And I love that, that kind of going in and out. It reminds me of when animals are in fear. They have the capacity to shake it out of their stuff, out of their body, and we've forgotten how to do that. So it gets trapped within us. But moving in that way is almost like us, uh, shaking a little bit, shaking the system so that it can move. I mean, I'm not the expert here, you are, but that's what came to mind. Hind, as you describe.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Uh, yeah, Marie, spot on with the example of the mammals in the wild. They don't get traumatized, they don't get ptsd. And this is what Peter Levine observed when he developed somatic experiencing. And, um, because they just allow, after the traumatic experience, the predator coming, they just allow their body to shake off all this excess, uh, stress energy from the body and the hormones. But for us, we've learned, um, in our educational system, in our society culture that, um, you know, um, stay strong, don't show emotion, don't cry. Uh, this too shall pass. Yes, this too shall pass. But it's okay to sit with it. It's okay to put a hand on the heart and just say, it's a moment of suffering, and I'm not the only one suffering, and that's okay. And this too shall pass. But if I'm with it rather than running away from it. And when we do this pendulation, this dance between pleasant and unpleasant, what we see in animals and mammals is a bit exaggerated, but we actually feel that in the body. But in small twitches, uh, a little bit of a shake here. Energy finally moving from, uh, a stuck, a joint, for example, or heat in the body or, um. Yeah, many sensation, tingling vibrations, all these internal sensations, these are signs that energy is moving now inside the body and there is a shift, something is changing.

Speaker B: Wow, I love that. And now where my mind's going, and it might not be the right direction, uh, hind. But I'm thinking about if we have pain in the body, if we're suffering pain, how does that relate to what you're talking about here?

Speaker A: Yeah, this reminds me of this, um, I think Peter Levine says that that pain is stuck sensation. Which means that if we just track it, stay with it, like what does this pain feel like? Is it sharp, is it radiating, does it have a color, a shape, uh, what's the temperature of it? And we track it. Is it moving, is it staying? And then you'll realize that it can move, it can change, it can shift. And sometimes emotions come. Not sometimes. Yeah, most of the times emotions come out because this pain is from a time where we had to brace and this bracing stayed stuck in us. Mhm. So when we tune into that, we could find relief and release of that energy inside the body.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's so fascinating. And uh, I'm thinking, you know, one of my body's indicators when I'm under stress is I get a numbness down my left hand side. And um, when I'm with, when I can spend time with it and sit with it and kind of get curious with it, it can manage, it manages itself. Um, but can we ever completely get rid of that hind. Is that what you're saying through, through the work that you're doing?

Speaker A: Personally, on a personal level, I did get rid of a lot of physical symptoms that I was struggling with because of my stress and anxiety. And one of them is my gut issues, my ibs. And that's on a personal level. But what I know from clients and from colleagues in trainings and from studies and case studies, um, is that a lot of symptoms can go away. Yes. And a lot of problems can be healed. And the key is to really, it's, it's a change, you know, it's not a one time thing. That's the key is to always come back, always listen. And when we come back, when we listen, our body tells us that maybe there's something in our life we are doing that is not okay for us. And then we can take steps and actions to also remove that which also helps.

Speaker B: Yeah, I hundred percent agree with that. And um, how challenging is when we get an indicator. I'm getting an indicator that something needs to change. But I don't want it to change because I like, you know, I like the discomfort of this. But my body's saying, come on Marie, you need to do something differently. And if I don't, then it will stay until it starts screaming at me to do something differently. And for me, when I get, it starts around here and um, just a tingling helps me realize, oh, something's going on that I need to change. And that helps me catch it a

Speaker A: little Bit quicker than I would in the past, 100%. It's like a sign inside of you that tells you, all right, you're over your capacity now when you need to slow down a little bit or back off a little bit or change, do something different, step away from the screen, go outside, look outside, tune into the present moment or yeah, whatever it is.

Speaker B: And so if a client wanted to work with you, hind, what's the process look like from there from that for meeting you and working with you?

Speaker A: Um, so the process is first to understand whether they're reaching out to me for coaching or for somatic experiencing. And they can reach out to me on LinkedIn, on um, Hind Taishuri, my name LinkedIn or on Instagram, the Embodiment Coach. And also my website which I plan to change and renew because I feel like I'm not the same person anymore who's on that website. But yeah, I'm working on that. So also the website is the Embodiment Coach.

Speaker B: Oh, lovely, lovely. And as we're wrapping up, thank you for sharing where people can find you and find out more about what could be working with you. And you do this online as well, right? Because this doesn't have to be in person.

Speaker A: I do this online. And um, what I love about somatic experiencing, it's, it's just uh, like coaching, it's, it's a conversation but instead we spend most of the time of this conversation with tracking what's happening inside the body. And sometimes memories can come up, uh, emotions can come up and all of that, but everything can be worked with online and in um, in a conversation. So it's not a, it's not like a hands on modality where the practitioner needs to touch, not like Rolfing or trigger approach or other um, modalities. And um, yeah, and, and I love sharing with my clients some neurosensory audio exercises for them recorded with my voice to, to help them during the time in between sessions to find their ground, uh, connect to their body and to harness this skill. Wow.

Speaker B: So just a bit similar to coaching is there is work to be done after you have these experiences. Oh yeah, yeah. It's not just a one off, it's a process of learning, developing, experiencing. That's what it sounds like to me.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah it is, yeah. Um, because you know this is work on neuroplasticity and neuroplasticity is not a one time thing. You need practice, you need repetition and you need connection and this is, this is when things start to shift by by always, um, not outsourcing your, Your um, your recovery or trauma resolution, but really tuning inwards. And this requires us to learn this language again from scratch, especially if we're not used to. And we're very disconnected from our bodies.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And if I recall correctly, hind, you don't just work with coaches, you also work with organizations. You know, real human, real human beings, sorry to the coaches, but real human beings who might not get the language that we're talking here. What's, what's that like?

Speaker A: Well, um, it was interesting at the beginning because I was really nervous to mention the word trauma in the workplace. Okay. But uh, um, I'm loving it and people are receiving it very well, even management. And um, I've done many workshops here for, for Bechtel, for Rio Tinto in Australia. M. And um, it's all about educating them on their nervous system and how does each state show up for them in their daily life? On their desks, with their colleagues, in their projects, uh, on sites. And uh, this brings a lot of awareness to them and what are the daily habits that is worsening what they're passing through rather than, um, making it better, you know, And I love the interaction and I get to do so many somatic practices with them. They recently put it, um, in the journal in the magazine of Bechtel, where I was with one of the employees, pushing hands together express, expressing healthy aggression, fight response. And I was like, wow, that's, that's interesting to be able to do that in an organizations. And I'm grateful that they're receiving it very well because after all, human beings are working and human being means autonomic nervous system means we have states and means we need to express and learn about these states.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I love it.

Speaker B: I love it. You're speaking my language. You're working in industries that absolutely need it. Um, and thank you for bringing the word trauma into everyday life, everyday working situations. I think there are words that used to be taboo in the workplace like trauma and like something I talk about, which is love. And I think we've got to be brave in this world and the work we do to keep naming what other people are craving, what they need to. What they need to. What they desire to look at. And so thank you for, for naming it and being brave in your.

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Marie. And uh, we should, I think we shouldn't be afraid of the word trauma because, um, it's over. Coupled with uh, lots of meaning, with lots of shame and um, you know, but what trauma Truly is is that energy that is trapped in the body. And when we connect to it, there's a way for it to release it. And trauma is a fact of life. I don't. I don't think I've met any person who hasn't experienced trauma in their life. But it doesn't have to be a life sentence. It doesn't have to be a life sentence, and it doesn't have to lead the way.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that, and thank you for naming that. Because some people think trauma is a big, big, big thing that has to happen, but it could be just a tiny moment that has caused a response that your body holds onto. And that is also a traumatic experience.

Speaker A: 100%. And also the accumulation of stressors over time can get us into a place where the nervous system can be traumatized. So it's not just one event. It could be an accumulation of many different events throughout our lives.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that brings me back to the animals. Hin. Because you said animals in the wild can manage that, but there are domestic animals that have been abused again and again and again, and you can see how that is also trapped in their little bodies. It makes me so upset to think about that. I. We've got a rescue captain. When we first got him, he. He. I don't know what kind of a life he had before, but he, he held trauma. And it's, it's. He's a different animal now. So it's, it's. You've said something important there. I think this reiteration of the trauma of something that's happening again and again, that gets even bigger and, and makes us smaller. My body wants to go smaller when I'm talking about it. And once we're able to kind of be with, uh, Creates an expansion with others. And if I look at my cat, he's so much more expanded than when we. He's older, he's smaller, but actually he's more expanded in his nature because of loving connection that he's received from my lovely family, my. Particularly my kids.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you mentioned love and connection, and those are our greatest healers. Whether connecting to others and loving presence of others or connecting to ourselves and becoming the loving witness to our experience. So having grace and compassion and love to whatever we're passing through is. Is a powerful healer.

Speaker B: M. Wow. I just want our listeners to maybe, uh. Play that again. Play that back again. Listen to what Hind said. Put your hand on your chest like we're doing and receive what Hind has just shared. Because for me, That's a real remembering. We must bring love to ourselves as well as to others. Hind, that sounds like a lovely way to, to wrap up our conversation. I honestly don't want to let you go, but, uh, the time is ticking. If you could leave our listeners with something to think about or reflect on, what would you offer them?

Speaker A: Yeah, I wrote down this question, um, before we start, Marie, and it's um, if I really allow my feeling and sensing self to come online, what does that open for me? So what possibilities do we have if we truly allow ourselves to witness our internal experience instead of moving away from it? And yeah, I'd like the listeners to just reflect on that.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you. Some beautiful questions there, Hind. And listeners, I really do suggest you listen back to this a couple of times because I know I will. Because I'm sure there is even more learning than we initially realize from Hind's beautiful presence, her wisdom, her knowledge, but also the way she's turned up to this conversation with courage and vulnerability. And I, uh, notice how calm I'm feeling at the end of this conversation and also how curious I am because I want to know more about this. There's lots I don't know. Um, so I'll be finding more about what you're doing. Hinds. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker A: Marie, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation and um, it was beautiful how I really started nervous, but I really felt so present and open hearted, uh, as always in your presence. So thank you so much.

Speaker B: You're most welcome, listeners. If you like what you hear, please share this widely with others, not just coaches that may find this useful. I know I've got people in my life I'll be sharing this with. Um, if you've got any ideas for podcasts that you want us to talk about or guests that you'd like us to explore, please let us know. And of course to find out more about what the lovely Hind is doing, please reach out to her in the capacities that she shared earlier. Thank you Hind. Have a wonderful day.

Speaker A: Thank you, Marie.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening. You can find out more about us on our website, www.empower- and on our social media networks, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. Be empowered.