Rivian R2 first drive, BYD goes nuts on flash charging, Donut Lab's miracle battery is dead, and more

Fred Lambert: And we are live a new result of the Electric Podcast. I am Fred Lambert, your host and as usual I'm joined by Cell Winra. How you doing set?

Colt Winra: I'm good.

Fred Lambert: All right, I hope you are because you were one of the lucky ones to uh, get a chance to be the first one of, the first one to drive the Rivian R2 this week which is going to be our lead story for the podcast. We're going to talk to Set about his experience with what could be uh, what is most likely the most anticipated new EV ah in the US at least uh this year. Then we're going to talk about uh, BYD going crazy with charging. They have um, they, they are, there's a chance they're going to you know, out Tesla when it comes to, to Supercharger. So that's uh, potentially one of the most beneficial uh, things for the EV revolution coming up. Then we're going to talk about the impact of China's uh, rapid electrification on, on death on actual like air pollution related debt which is very encouraging. Uh, we're going to talk about the ix3 from BMW which is uh, picking up momentum. Waymo was transitioning into like a full blown ride share company uh now not just like just Autonomy demo. Uh, but we'll talk about that a little bit more and then we're going to end the show. So stay tuned for that with uh, Donut Lab. We're gonna talk uh, most likely than not probably the final uh, report on the Netlab. Even though when I posted this article earlier this week I got a lot of uh, angry investors that reach out to me and everything. But uh, yeah, uh, it doesn't look good. Let's just put it like that. But first let's uh, let's go back to set with the R2. So talk to us a little bit about the event. Talk to us about the vehicle. How was it?

Colt Winra: Yeah, it's uh, so the event was cool. Um, typical Rivian event. They're you know, camping themed, they're out in the woods. It's uh, fun, the food's good, everybody's like laid back and chill. RJ's got his like denim on. It's just a good scene. Um, it was in um, right outside of Salt Lake City and Park City. Um, it was you know, we went up to the mountains like you do at a typical Rivian event. Um, we went off roading, we went on the highways a little bit. Um, because the ran network was right by our hotel. Uh, we got to do a little charging as well. So uh, we got really the full experience with this thing and pretty impressed. Like I have to say. Uh, I was in the car with uh, Jordan who used to be without a spec and now it was with Kelly Blue Book and we were kind of both just like, I don't know, I don't know what my expectations were. They were good but not great. And I feel like this was a great car. Like you know, we had this thing going top speed on the highway, it's like super fast, feels super planted. Um, it just drives really nicely. This is obviously the performance version. There's a premium and a, a base model version as well. But you know, obviously they want the journalists drive the best of the best there.

Fred Lambert: So that's also all they're producing right now I think.

Colt Winra: Right, right. I mean they did have ah, on site, some basic ones but they, I don't know really they drove. Yeah, I mean they were just, you know, what is it going to look like on the inside? Mhm. Kind of thing. Um, so you know, impressive all around. Uh, the specs are pretty solid. I mean you and I talked about this before. Like how in the world is this vehicle as efficient as the Tesla Model Y and not as efficient as Model Y, but as efficient as the Model Y specs which are a little bit even more optimistic than the uh, what you get. So you know this way over 300 miles of range, uh, 80, I think 88 kilowatt hour battery. Um, you know those tires are no like those are off road tires. I mean they have um, you know, uh, what do they call them, street tires. But you know, when we took them off road they were obviously the big off road tires at a low spec.

Fred Lambert: So yeah, the one that we just saw right there, those are the, the street tires but with the bigger wheels. So even with the bigger wheels you're actually more efficient than the, the smaller wheel with the off road tires. So then the tires are also very important. It's not just the size of the wheel which we often on.

Colt Winra: Yep, exactly. Um, so you know what's, what's cool about this? Um, obviously Nax Port, it's got really fast charging but not you know, Hyundai 800 volt, Porsche 800 volt, it's still 400 volt. So um, you're looking at like 220, 240 uh, kilowatts. Uh we went up to 170 but we were, we started at a state of charge of 56%. So that wasn't, that was kind of what we were Expecting, um.

Fred Lambert: Were you charging on an adventure?

Colt Winra: Uh, yeah. It was a Rivian, uh, charger and it was a NAX charger, which was interesting. The place we were at, which is in Park City, uh, had about 50 max chargers and 50, uh, CC CCS combos. Um, they. We did go out into the water. Um, this thing has like a 20 inch, uh, waiting, uh, level thing. Um, a little bit smaller than the, uh, R1s, but still pretty solid off road. Very impressed. Again, not quite as good as the R1s, but, you know, what do you expect for about half the price or, you know, thereabouts. Um, learned a lot about this vehicle. Um, super impressive. The, uh, you know, you had the rear window goes down, which when you do that and have all the windows open, it really feels kind of like a Bronco, where, you know, you barely have a roof. Um, they have a treehouse tent that goes, um, on top of it. We saw that, uh, in the hotel area. Um, it's just a really cool tent that folds up into a roof rack situation. Super easy to deploy, super easy to stay in. Big windows, all that stuff. There it is here, uh, for those watching. Yeah, super, super comfortable.

Fred Lambert: Yeah, there's. There's a, there's integrated fans in there. So, like, you can get some airflow, right?

Colt Winra: Yeah, not just fans, but, um, power. Usbc, uh, power. So you can charge, uh, your phones, lights, do whatever.

Fred Lambert: Is it, Is it an independent battery though, or is it. Because. Is it connected?

Colt Winra: It's connected to the car through the roof rack.

Fred Lambert: Through the roof rack. Oh, okay. Interesting.

Colt Winra: Yeah, it was, it was interesting. Um, the Frunk. Speaking of that. The Frunk is, uh, not quite as big as the R1, but still pretty solid. I think I have a picture. There it is. Um, I think you can put probably, you know, those old brown grocery bags. They probably put like six in there, which is solid. Uh, maybe a cooler, smaller cooler. Um, Golf, like, perfect size for golf clubs. Um, not quite as big as the R1 and certainly not as big as, you know, the Ford F150 Lightning or even the Chevy Silverado, but still pretty solid. Um, what else? Seats, uh, were super comfortable. Um, the, I would say the most surprising part was the drive feeling. It feels really a lot more car like than the R1s. Um, you know, just taking turns. Acceleration on the highway was smooth. But still, you know, the R1s were a little bit jerky.

Fred Lambert: Um, compared to. Because, uh, you're a Model Y driver. Uh,

Colt Winra: it feels a lot more solid all around. I mean, I have a 2020 Model Y. And you know the doors kind of slam like a silverware drawer. But um, this, this is you know quite a bit nicer. I think the build quality was quite a bit better. Um, acceleration pretty similar on par to a ah, performance uh, Model Y. Um, obviously this is going to go places model Y's cannot go. Um, the big question, so we're scrolling down to the article right now. Big questions for me were autonomy and uh, vehicle to grid or vehicle to X. Um, the problem with the Autonomy is that uh, the hardware that's in the vehicle now, so you're purchasing a premium car. Even the launch edition uh, has ah, you know forever uh autonomy. But um, that's only going to get you point to point and that means you still have to be looking at the, the window, um, later this year there's going to be an upgrade to the hardware upgrade to the lidar. And that's going to eventually get you the level three autonomy which is read your phone, read a book, can't go sleeping in the back, but you're a block closer to that. And for me I'm like uh, that's gonna like you're gonna kill the early adopter vibe with that because when you're spending all the money on the first edition you kind of want that. The other thing that was disappointing was the um, the vehicle to grid system. They, they do have a ah, 110 volt out like they have had before. There's a AC plug inside as well uh, which is fine. That's great. Like some cars don't even have that but like it's really frustrating that they didn't have their vehicle to home, vehicle to grid ready for this show. Now they tell me that there's something coming in the months ahead, maybe by the end of the year. But you know for the launch they really should have had the specs and I mean I guess if it's not ready at launch, okay, but like make a promise, sell it, whatever. And to me like they've been so behind on the stuff that's.

Fred Lambert: But I would, I would assume that unlike the Autonomy, because I do agree with you on the, on the Autonomy front I would assume that at least it's not a hardware upgrade on that front. Like yeah, I would assume that the inverter inside the car is bi directional, the charging system is bi directional. So that uh, it might be more a question of that uh, Rivian is waiting for their own like home, uh, side hardware maybe or validating with third party ones like the, like the decibel or quasar, all that stuff. So at least that. On the autonomy front though, I do agree with you, like the timing is just not great because you know all the early adopters would, would want to have like the full eco vehicle. But at least with Rivian itself I do think that there's a small advantage where uh, a lot of the, the buyers, a lot of the big Rivian fans are, you know, the brand is adventure focused and everything. I think a lot of people are more focused on the driving experience, on the adventure experience around it, which includes driving. Uh, now obviously there's a, if you do the little vendorgram of people who like that and people who actually also want to have the ability to, to self drive to level three. I uh, think, I think there's, you share a bunch of people on both sides there. But, but they are also, and I've seen some studies too especially this week on this. A lot of people would just uh, want nothing to do with self driving. Like they don't, they don't want to experience it, they don't want it near the car. They don't, they don't care that the car doesn't come with the lidar sensor. Now I don't know just how big of a market that is. I think it's a real possibility that it's enough that it's going to fill up the order book for Rivan until. So it's coming later this year.

Colt Winra: Right.

Fred Lambert: Is that what, what they said, the lidar?

Colt Winra: Yeah.

Fred Lambert: So, uh, so I think it's not, it's not too bad like uh, because I don't, I don't expect Rivian to, to deliver like a hundred thousands of,

Colt Winra: a little bit of an Osborne effect kind of thing where like the people that are going to spend a lot of extra money on the very best thing are not going to want to re. Spend that money at the end of the year.

Fred Lambert: Yeah. And it hurts their resale value too because as soon as the lidar version comes out probably hurts the resale value uh, of the early R2s at the same time. Yeah, it's not ideal for sure. I agree with you on that. But uh, I really like the um, show. I think I had part of it in the videos here. We saw it earlier. But you posted it also on, on Instagram. You had this looks uh, like you were having lunch with RJ or something.

Colt Winra: Yeah.

Fred Lambert: And RJ did uh, a whole little spiel. I guess someone had like you, you didn't pose the, the question at the time but I guess someone asked uh, how do you you know, take market share from, from Tesla or how do you, how does it position in you know, an extremely crowded segment and more and more EV options? And he had a very good answer and that I agree with that. He, he thinks the problem with the, with the US market right now is the, the availability of great EVs which I think they uh, like he wasn't gonna list a bunch of great competitor for sure. I think there are plenty of, of great option in the market but there's a, plenty of room for better options. I think it's not the only thing that's like killing EV adoption in the US but it's certainly one of them. And I think he showed like great. It's, he made it clear that Rivian is a product focused company and that they, they want to make this product as great as possible and if they do they're pretty confident that it's going to find its market. And uh, the after experiencing the car. Do you agree with that?

Colt Winra: Uh yeah.

Fred Lambert: Yep. So right now. So you've been a Tesla owner for years. You had all the Tesla vehicles available for sale except the roadster. Uh, you've been a Model Y driver for half a decade at this point. Best selling car in the world. You've made it the electric car of the year a few years back. You know, no one can argue that you haven't been a fan of this product. Do you Would you choose right now R2 over ML Y?

Colt Winra: So that's the problem. Uh, right now? No, in, in December, Yes. So that's the plan is wait for the lidar and software update and hopefully the vehicle to grid stuff at that point. Because those are the things like my next vehicle is going to have is vehicle to grid like lidar, uh, optionality to go level uh three autonomy. That's kind of my bar. And for now I can hang with the Model Y. Mhm.

Fred Lambert: Yeah. No it's a, it's a good point especially for you who's been burnt on the, on the FSD front for so long. You don't want to just buy R2 and then having the same situation by the end of the year. And I've been saying for years that you know, I, I don't understand. All the automakers including Tesla would just Skip the level 3 as if it's just you know, it's oh, it's too easy to do, doesn't bring enough value. It's just that's, that's wrong. The the definition of level three is just unlike level four, it's just in particular situation and there's a, a delay between the switchover from the autonomous system and the driver, um, driving the vehicle. So it, that's it. And there's plenty of situation that you can make this uh, uh, very useful. I was just tweeting about, about something because I've been, I've been seeing a lot of it. I think this is because a lot of people are sending them to me. There's also on social media a lot of people are sending me like um, videos of um, uh, of people misusing fsd just like you know, driving with, while working on their laptop. Uh, some guy just you know, install an actual iPad that he put over the Tesla screen so they can watch videos uh, while he drives. And people are posting this like blatantly like breaking the law and posting it. Uh, it's pretty wild because people sending to me, I think, I think my algorithm picks it up and like this guy actually likes to watch these dumbass, uh, trying to, trying to invest together Darwin Award. So I get a lot of these. And um, so I posted one earlier today and someone responded, I was like, yeah, okay, I get your point. You're technically right. But uh, uh, on highways it's basically perfect. So it's not a problem on highways. And I had to push back because the best data we have right now is actually yes, it is better on highways. But uh, it's about a thousand miles between this engagement on V14 for city mileage and 4,000 miles, 3 to 4,000 miles for highway mileage. So it's a lot better. It's three times better, three to four times. But it's uh, it's still far from you know, the average mileage between, you know, I see critical disengagement. I like compare it to a crash for a human driver because thinking that if you're not intervening in a critical disengagement, probably going to crash. So yeah, it's just, it's not, it's not great, but it's a lot better. So what does that mean? Well that means that once you get to a decent, um, let's say that your average, it gets into the tens, the deep, into the tens of thousands of miles between critical disengagement on uh, the average and then you take out just the highway mileage, then your highway mileage is most likely you get there closer, sooner than your city mileage. And that means that you can, you know, offload the responsibility from the driver to the system and, uh, and do a level three in those highways, which is most of the driving. So I think there's just a ton of value that's just being left on the table there. And, um, I'm glad that Rivian is one of the makers that are actually targeting this now. There's also the possibility that, uh, you get them there at the same time and you just. You just do level four and you. You cover more mileage overall. That's fine too. But why not? If. If it's possible, like, why not do it? It just. It makes sense to me. But. Yeah, the R2 deliveries are starting right now.

Colt Winra: Um,

Fred Lambert: we saw a few. It's still many employees, right? Is it?

Colt Winra: No, there's some. There's some customers as well.

Fred Lambert: I'd say. Customers as well. Yeah. Okay. I mean, this has been in production for like, two months now already, so it's, uh. Yeah, it should be getting some decent volume. All right, let's talk about BYD a little bit. Talk, um, about the flash charging. So this thing has been unveiled in March.

Colt Winra: Just.

Fred Lambert: It's not that long ago that's been around. And, uh, the. What, you know, the. The technology itself is extremely impressive. There's no 1500 kilowatts charging capacity. You can charge a zero to, uh, 70% in roughly, you know, five, six minute. You can charge 200% under 10 minutes. It's just. It's not. It's, uh, you don't. You don't need anything better than that. Like, it's the best it gets. And, um, yeah, just a few months ago. But the deployment rate. So the technology is impressive. Now it's the deployment rate that's absolutely stunning. So obviously Tesla is the leader there as the global supercharger network is the only global network out there. Uh, in North America, specifically, it's by far the best. In Europe, China, it's arguably the best. And there's some contenders that are getting closer, but globally, there's no doubt it's the best one. And Tesla, if you look, um, so Tesla has, um, just short of 10,000 station, but about 80,000 chargers. And now that's what we need to be careful here because this BYD talks only about stations. And, um, a station is sort of the equivalent to a Tesla station. It's just that there's only two charge, uh, cable per station. Uh, so the stall number, if you want to compare it to Nicolette charging guns stall to supercharger stall total, you basically have to double the number of station that BYD has. Ah, But BYD is already just a few months into the deployment at um, 5700 charging station, flash charging station, they call it flash instead of fast because it's just so, so fast. Um, now all of them, almost all of them in China, they just launched the first one in Europe. And um, the, uh, the, the plan to have 3,000 of them in Europe. Uh, yeah, 3,000 of them across Europe by the end of next year. So that's 3,000 stations. So 6,000 stalls. And they plan to have 6,000 total overseas stationed by 2027 by the end of next year. So if you look at the deployment rate here, so like right now, 10,000 station, uh, for Tesla, 5,000. But let's focus on the stalls because that's a little bit better comparison because of just how different the stations are. You are just over 10, uh, thousand for, uh, BYD and 80,000 for Tesla. So obviously Tesla is still way ahead. But then you look at the deployment rate, if you look at the deployment rate now, just the last few months, uh, BYD is going to catch up to Tesla by the end of the decade at this rate. Um, and then if you look now at the rate of deployment in power, because now you have the charging gun. But you have to think more of this as power deployment because if you can deliver more power per chargers, you, the, the charging station sessions are, um, faster. You can get more of them, you can, you know, get more cars fully charged on the road faster. The deployment rate right now based on last quarter from Tesla for the data, last quarter, uh, it's 400, just over 400 megawatts per month, while BYD is reaching almost a gigawatt per month, more than twice the deployment capacity of Tesla right now. So yeah, we just in total power, if you go total power, Tesla is about 20 gigawatts of total power. Uh, YBYD is at 8.6. So even right now, like we talk about, uh, 10,000 chargers versus 80,000 superchargers for Tesla, but if you look right now as the gigawatt capacity, BYD is already a lot closer. And uh, by, you know, mid, um, 2027, it would surpass Tesla already in total capacity. That's extremely impressive. And it would be roughly 26 gigawatts. So that would be 26 gigawatt for Tesla, 26 GW for BYD. That's the important thing. So for EV adoption, it's the best. Now the thing that got me specific, this article, a job posting for BYD in Canada for a manager to manage the flash charging network in Canada. Does that mean BYD is bringing its flash charging in Canada? So out of these, uh, 6,000 overseas flash charging station, by the end of next year some of them will be in Canada, which would be amazing. Um, now I do say this is super good for EV adoption in general. It would also, I think it would put some pressure on Tesla that has like used the Supercharger as a mode for, for a few years, even though now it's open up to other automakers. It would push everyone to just get better chargers charging network. But um, um, obviously the problem with the BYD flash charger is that it only works well with their own batteries because no other batteries are able to take this, you know, megawatt charging level, at least not in, you know, consumer passenger cars. Uh, now I think, I think that will change because obviously BYD is also a supplier of battery cells to other company, including Tesla. So I think we'll see more and more people adopt this, uh, this battery. And just if you just look at the deployment rate of BYD and their goals over the next two years, uh, their deployment goes, I think it's clear that they don't. They are expecting to have tens of millions of, of vehicles with their flash batteries uh, on the road. So whether that's, you know, vehicles with BYD badge on them or with other automakers, I don't think it matters that much to them. But it is exciting.

Colt Winra: Yeah. I mean this is going to be basically gasoline type of speed of charging.

Fred Lambert: Yep. You cannot, you cannot argue. There's no argument anymore for like I don't want to wait at the, at a, a ah, charging station. Like uh, did I tell you about that? I had a conversation about that with someone with ah, another K Baker that I met at the Ferrari event um, earlier this month. A, ah, journalist and even not an EV journalist or a car journalist that I didn't know, also based in Montreal. And uh, it was, I mean I, I felt set. I felt like I was going back like 10 years at the early days of, of Electrek where you know, we're still the underdog trying to make the argument that EVs uh, of the future. The guy was old school and he told me things like, and I cannot repeat them word forward here because he had a very colorful language, nice guy and everything. He was very, just passionate about it where you know, he almost said basically that he prefers to die than to wait at the charging station and he will, he will die on that hill. Like he, he basically said that Anyone that waits at the charging station is being a complete moron and everything. It's like it was old school. Uh, I couldn't believe that still people think like that. But then you have this technology too that comes in, they're like all right now it's going to be quicker than

Colt Winra: you

Fred Lambert: uh, having to fully fill up your tank of gas. So it's just what's the point at this point? So there's just no arguments anymore. All right, because before we jump into the comment section. So if you guys have questions for us, I see the Burn man is here, I see Skeptech is here. We have Dan also in the house, us. Hi guys, thanks for joining us live. If you are joining live you can ask us a question and we have a few moments at the end of the show where we take uh, questions and comments from you guys. So you can put it in the comment section right now. We can get to it in about uh, looks like 10, 10, 15 minutes or so. All right, big new study uh, came out of Nature Health this week. Um, big, big study of uh, air pollution in China over the last few years. Right? Uh, um, what's the time posted that? Uh, since 2023 they've been gathering the data. So they looked at air pollution in major Chinese city over the last year and specifically at those with the highest level of EV adoption. And uh, they found um, reduction of uh, 23% in fine particulate matter PM 2.5, a drop of 8.9 per cubic meter, um, and a 30% drop in carbon monoxide uh, for those city with high electric vehicle adoption. Now they were able to link that to approximately 262,000 non accidental debt, um, along with 75,000 alcohols of that reduction through um, this um, amelioration in this improvement in air pollution. So we know that obviously that air pollution is directly tied to stroke, heart disease, lung cancers and kind of respiratory illness and uh, that prevents it. I think we already shared some, yeah, 4 million. So worldwide you can link directly to outdoor air pollution to 4 million premature debt worldwide. 4 million per year. It's not obviously, you know, road vehicles are not the only source of air pollution, there's no doubt about it. But it's one of the big ones. And you know, and China is a good example because you know they're so rapid in their adoption. So you can see the impact a lot faster than you know, the U.S. going from 0% 20 years ago to 10 adoption. It's not, you don't see the pace as much as uh, China going from roughly 0% less than 10 years ago to now. 60 of new cars, you um, know, at least being partly powered by batteries. Most of them are fully powered. So it's, it's huge. And I, you know, I've been to China three times last year and it's one thing that I've experienced myself directly where you're in a major city, you're in full traffic and you are inside a car or you're even worse on a scooter, for example, an electric scooter. And you don't, you're not, you don't have that zrec air pollution in your face while you're driving, stuck in traffic and everything like that. It's just even, even walking on like tight streets in the city. And like you know there's a truck that, that's blocking the way. You're not breathing their exhaust because even that truck is most likely they're not electric these days. So the, the impact is direct like that. You can feel the impact right away. And now you can measure it in actual live saved. Uh, I know that, that, that's, you know we don't focus on that as much on Electra obviously because we're more a tech focus publication and we, we talked about like the products and everything and, and we, we do think that that's probably the best way to go to. Because we believe that evs are simply the better product for transportation. Electric power trains are better model transportation than internal combustion engine. And I think that's the easier uh, battle to win than just you know, tell people I go electric because you're going to save lives. It's just human brain doesn't work like that unfortunately. Um, but when you see the result, uh, it feels good, let's just put it that way. It made my day. Uh, when I saw uh, that study I linked it on the article on the ActTrack if you guys want to check it out in more details. All right. But uh, we've been from BMW. It's uh, their best entries in a while in the EV space I think. And uh, we've been impressed with the range has been getting. We had a report uh, on the last podcast or the one before that from the Norway test. And uh, yeah, so yeah, actually Peter decided it here right there. 485 miles, 781 kilometers, uh, on the Norway test. But um, now we have another one that came out that just confirmed you can actually reach 800 miles. Sorry, not 800 miles, 500 miles, 800 kilometers. So, you know, 15 more miles, uh, 20 more kilometers, a little bit more than 20 kilometers than the previous test. Um, 20.3 kilowatt hour per 100 miles, 12.6 kilowatt hours per 100 kilometers. That was the efficiency that was achieved. Still 2% of the battery capacity at the end of the journey too. So we could, you know, the chickened out. They didn't want to push it all the way through, didn't want to deal with the towing. Uh, there was some, um, elevation, nearly 2,000 meter of elevation. I think the regen is really good on this too. Have we, have we had someone drive the ix3 yet?

Colt Winra: I don't think so. Uh, I used to have a great set of contacts at IBM or sorry, BMW. Uh, they were, they're in New Jersey. They were like, try any car, anytime you want. I like basically added three versions of the i3 and then they just fired. Everybody started fresh. Everybody. So gotta get, gotta get my Rolodex updated.

Fred Lambert: Yeah. Because I'm impressed with ixg and uh, I think, I think it would be worth, uh, checking it out. We should, we need to do a full review of it. All right. I wanted to talk real quick about Waymo because they had a big announcement this week. They're launching their premier membership. So It's a new $30 a month, kind of Uber One type of deal. And I think it's a, it's a, it's a big deal because it shows where Waymo is right now. And I think we're in inflation point where Waymo is not just about like proving their technology in different markets, which, you know, they're still doing. I think they still have some, uh, ways to go to prove like in, let's say like in snowy region, for example, things like that. But in terms of skill of operator, Waymo has reached a level now with half a million rides per week. Aiming for a million by the end of the year, which big target. I think it's achievable. It's going to be rough now. They are even launching their own service, which what this does, it's one priority pickup. So you prioritize vehicle matching to reduce wait time 10%. Way more cash back on every ride. Um, so that means, you know, if you right now you pay about $300 a month of uh, Waymo rides, you, you'll get your money back on that pretty easily. And then early access to Waymo in new cities. So I guess if you travel a lot, that that, that's worth it. Uh, and then Five free cancellation per month. So that's, that's useful too. That's uh, that can be a problem, but that's generally, that's more of a problem with uh, with drivers. When drivers, you know, Dr. Doing little tricks on you. Uh, so now there's no drivers. It's a little bit easier. But uh, yeah, so it's way more like trying to lock in the consumer base right now with the service like uh, Uber has done, like Lyft also as their PIG service monthly, monthly subscription service. And it's really interesting because we reported a few weeks ago that we see a little rift happening between Waymo and Uber right now where they are the. I was gonna say they were partner, but they're still partners, uh, in a few markets. The. You have to take a way more right through the Uber app. Um, and um, I think through. I think in Austin and in. I think in Atlanta also. And I don't know them by heart, but in the last few weeks we've seen both of them. Uber first I think, and then, and then way more taking a few jabs at each other. We're like, oh. And obviously Waymo. Uber has now partnered with several other companies to deploy different autonomous system through their um, network Lucid, uh, Neuro together. And then they also have deal with Rivian as well. So it's um, getting a little bit more heated. And now this is the latest step in it where Waymo is more about, like I said, because this, obviously this service now is only available where you don't go through the Uber app. So it starts with uh, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Phoenix. Um, but they say that you're going to get priority access to other cities as well as Wemo launch in other cities. So that means, I think that Waymo is now gonna exclusively launch with its own ride dealing app in new cities. That's the way I interpret, uh, the situation.

Colt Winra: Yeah, it makes sense. I mean they were doing that uh, before we. Yep. So.

Fred Lambert: No, go ahead.

Colt Winra: No, they were.

Fred Lambert: I think you, you.

Colt Winra: Sorry, we're cutting over each other. I'm just saying that, yeah, Waymo, um, and Uber are going to compete. Competing head to head. And we know that. Uh, for instance, you know, I was at the Rivian event. Uh, Uber is going to have a Rivian R2 that's uh, able to, you know, autonomously ride Ale. So, uh, Robo Taxi, which I'm like, hey, if you're building that for Uber, why don't you build that for everybody? But

Fred Lambert: I'm sure the. They are they just want to partnership like in the Uber as well as a big investment in, in Rivian. But uh, I think, I think, I think they don't want to over promise on the consumer level too. I think they don't want, you can do something with Uber just like Tesla does in Austin with the geofence area and you know, make, make a robotaxi for that rather than just consumer in general. So I, I get that but the, the R2 is not, is a, you know, especially you don't need to have the altern tires for that. Then you don't need to have necessarily the big wheels. But the R2 is so efficient that if you, you, you do that, you know, you have the more efficient wheels and tires on it. It makes for a pretty good ride ailing, uh, platform.

Colt Winra: Yeah.

Fred Lambert: All right, before we jump into the comments section, uh, I want to talk a little bit about Donut Lab. So we've been, we've been following this story for a long time. We interviewed the CEO in January. You know, this battery that's supposed to revolutionize the entire industry was launched at CES earlier this year. It uh, you know, it's first solid state battery in a production evolution. This production EV is supposed to be the Verge motorcycle, which is a partner of Donut Lab. The CEO is the founder of Verge. And um, the battery was supposed to have 400 watt hours per kilogram of energy density, much higher than the best commercial batteries available right now. Was supposed to have 100,000 cycles of capacity, which means it's going to last like hundreds of years really. Um, it was um, supposed to have extremely fast charge and discharge. It was, you know, perfect battery. Perfect battery. That's the way to put it. And um, you know, we were skeptical at first obviously for, because we see too many, too good to be true, uh, battery breakthroughs out there. But, but we know the Verge was a real company, uh, or not the Verge. Verge Motorcycle was a real company delivering real bikes. Uh, we, you know, we, we know Marco. So it's not like a faceless company. Marco Letsimaki is the head of a company. We interviewed him and uh, and what made I think probably the most, that the most, what lended the most credibility to the claim is that he was saying in January at CES that this was going to be in production bikes by the end of March, by the end of Q1. So I was like, all right. So I literally told them in the interview, either you lose all credibility by the end of the quarter or you know, you have you revolutionize the whole world with this. And he was like yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. Well if he agrees, he agreed that he has no credibility whatsoever right now because it didn't happen. Obviously. Uh, we, we talked about um, it was. They were supposed to release independent testing of the battery cells to prove that uh, it were capable of doing what they were doing. We reported on a few of these independent tests being released but none of them address the, the main claims of the battery especially the life cycles and the uh, uh, energy density. So. And then March came and Verge didn't deliver any bad, any motorcycles uh, with those cells. Now they claim to be delivering motorcycles with the new, the new battery pack but they do admit that the new battery pack is using lithium ion cells. So it's like okay, so what's happening? And then this week uh, credit to um, Zyroth. I, I should have the guy's name. Um, but yeah, the, the, the, the channel, the YouTube channel is called Zyrath and he made a very very in depth video. I recommend that. Is, is it down the video was that what. There's no okay, no, it's not okay. I thought maybe like Donut la take it down or something. I don't know. Um, they uh, put a very like it's a 45 minute video so if you know, if you really into it you should watch it. But otherwise the gist of it is that he made a very in depth investigation talking to 20 independent battery experts and he talked to the former co founder and coo, um, maybe not co, but one of the top executive at uh Nordic Nano which one of the technology partner of Donet Lab in the battery. And then he tracked down on other um German company that was supposedly responsible for the manufacturing process, the printing the battery. They call it the battery printing process of um, that um Donut Lab was supposed to rely on for this. And basically the short story is that everything points to what they got tested and what they put in the bike was just a regular NMC lithium ion battery cell. Uh, there's no evidence of the contrary. And then on the other side there's plenty of evidence that uh, they were trying to hide that and that uh, the, that CD coating. The German company that had all the patent for the screen printing uh process behind the batch manufacturing promised to Nordic Nano in the lab. A technology that just wasn't real. It was so, so it's not. The whole thing is not necessarily on um, Donut Lab. The video kind of gave them some benefit of the doubt where the the, the. They just. The recycle is met by the company CD coding and uh, they probably just didn't verify it enough. But then where lab gets a lot looks a lot worse is that uh. Based on a lot of these reports from the people involved there, um, they basically claimed to verify the claims from CD coding and quite evidently didn't because the technology is just not there. So they basically thought they had something very interesting which is something we talked about when talking about maybe we suspected that uh, you know, they might have seen things that's really impressive that they think as a breakthrough, but that the production, the realistic scaling and you know, economic production of those cells is a lot further out or maybe even not possible than what they were thinking themselves and then claiming publicly. And um, then the, the other thing that's um, that's worrying about this is that they managed to raise 25 million from 1300 small investors. So they didn't even go to the big banks and trying to like screw the big guys. They went and got a bunch of small investors and now they, these people are most likely they're not going to lose all their money. And, and that's the, the you know, the sad part of all of this. But yeah, I had the uh. So like I said since I posted this article earlier this week, which is pretty damning. Like if you especially look at the video and you look at all the, the people involved that are basically saying like yeah it's. We don't have that technology, it's just. It's not there. Uh, and. And Marco just jumped the gun and, and made claims that were just untrue. Uh, I got, I got a bunch of like actually a bunch three. Three different people that are linked to the company. All of them investor obviously that are trying to push back on this claim, but all three of them um, didn't bring me anything substantial. Like the main thing is that they have like the. Looks like the uh, um. The talking point that they're using is that oh the. The cell is supposed to look like elite ion cells. Meaning like the voltage. Voltage curve is supposed to. To mimic the. One of. Of uh, elithium cells because you want to be a dropped uh, plug and play system for um, existing battery um and module technology. Which makes sense, I agree. But like that's, that doesn't invalidate all of the other reporting in, in that report. Like it's just just one aspect of it. Like it maybe it. The fact that it's made to look like one doesn't mean that it's it is solid state that's the main problem. So yeah, it's uh, I mean we're gonna keep an eye on this situation, but I'm just. My hopes now are basically at uh, 1%, let's say like they were maybe at the 20 to start with and now they're 1% that this ends up in being a real thing at the end.

Colt Winra: Not looking good.

Fred Lambert: Nope.

Colt Winra: All right, let's get into the comments. Uh, skeptic says I'm trying to buy the early R2 LE. I don't use FSD, so just having autopilot equivalent in the R2 is enough. Just need Rivian to let me order one. Ah, they probably will let you order one. I think, um, I think there's a lot of people that are waiting for the uh, Autonomy hardware. So.

Fred Lambert: So what, uh, a launch edition, Ellie. Launch edition?

Colt Winra: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think you'll get one if you uh, you want to order one. Uh, Dan Overstay says I tried using my hardware 3 FSD home from my cabin. I did okay on the dirt roads, driving in the center on hills, but I would not recognize, but would not recognize the 60 speed limit. Instead driving 45 past seven 60 mile per hour signs. It's not good.

Fred Lambert: I mean on the dirt road also I wouldn't let uh, FSD drive at 60 miles per hour, to be honest.

Colt Winra: Yeah. Do you think there's a 60 mile per hour dirt road? That's kind of crazy.

Fred Lambert: Yeah,

Colt Winra: yeah. It's probably for its own good, suspension wise.

Fred Lambert: Mhm.

Colt Winra: Oh yeah. On the highway. Um, Saska, uh, could you explain the pros of 9 minute charging for Europeans? If you start with a full battery and drive for three to four hours, why would you rush back and not stop for toilet, food, coffee? 200 kilowatts is enough.

Fred Lambert: We agree with you there. It's just that at least it is available for the people that don't want to do that. Like there, there is there. There are some maniacs out there out there. Just like the guy I was talking to at the Ferrari event. We was like, uh, so he was a motorcycle rider and he was, he was telling me like, all right, so I ride my motorcycles with my, my guys and uh, we have a new guy that comes in and if the new guy comes in and he's like, I want to stop after 200m. It's like the first time we were like okay, let's stop and, and take a break. Whatever. The next time that he does that, he's cut off though. We never invite him again. We don't stop. We just keep going, keep going. We do 600 miles in a day and whatever, you know. And I was like, yeah, that's, that's cool. Like, you can do that. And I'm glad that some people like to exist, but the, the majority of people are not like that. So I agree. That, and myself included, if I drive three or four hours, I probably want to stop for more than five minutes. Um, but some people don't. You know, some people are just gonna, you know, take a piss in the corner and then charge and then go back on the road. And now they can do that if, uh, if you have the technology. So that's it. And it's just, uh, one more thing that, um, you can check the box off and like, it's just as good, if not better than internal combustion engine.

Colt Winra: Yeah. And, uh, as people say, it's good to have parity. Like, at least it's one thing you can no longer say, uh, you know, my gas car can do that, so

Fred Lambert: my BYD can do.

Colt Winra: Yep. All right. Carl in San Diego. Honestly, the last year of total devastation in the EV space. That's a little harsh. Has made me even more convinced that will not decarbonize in time. The crash of our climate will leave only bikes. E Bikes as options. That's a weird Mad Max scenario, but I like it.

Fred Lambert: Yeah, I mean, e. Bikes are great. Bikes are great. Like, if. If you have the option to. To do that, I would too. Uh, we love them at Electric. We report on them all the time. But, uh, and I, I do, you know, I, I go in phases. Maybe not as pessimistic as Carl here, but, you know, I see the El Nino that's coming this year, and I know that's, uh, it's going to be a harsh one. And we see it already. The, you know, we're. We're, you know, barely in mid June right now, and the heat is already quite substantial. It's, um, you know, it is worrying. We see that the whole hurt is, is warming up, except for like, a small patch in the north of Quebec, actually in the south of Greenland.

Colt Winra: Greenland. Um,

Fred Lambert: uh, Gruen. Oh, that's right. In French we say growing. Then I just realized that's not the same thing. Uh, but yeah, it's, um, it is worrying. Uh, now, does it mean that we're gonna go back to just having bikes? I don't think so. If you have an ev, that the battery is ethically sourced, that the metal and everything ethically Sourced and then powered by renewable energy, you don't have a negative impact on the environment. So might uh, as well still use that. I don't know why we would go back to bikes.

Colt Winra: All right, moving on. Rick McDonald 7075. A friend just bought a Subaru Trail Seeker. Those are pretty sweet. It seems to be the most like the R2. I think there's room in the market for both. But it's funny how the comparisons are all against the Model Y. Yeah, I

Fred Lambert: mean Jamie uh, reviewed that one I think and uh, he liked it. You know, and, and when Jamie has a likes a car, uh, it's generally a good sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's uh, he's not the easiest guy to please. So uh, uh, that's uh, uh, that's. I don't know if he actually fully reviewed it. I think it might be just a first drives but still um. Yeah. Why we compare it to the Model Y? Because it's the best selling car in the world. So that's a reason why like you, you, you want to see uh, you know, if you are a product focused company and I, I get like no, no, I don't think Rivian was trying to, you know, beat Model Y at everything. It's, it's a different car in, in many ways for sure. And you, and you do have a good point about the, the, the Subaru being uh, a close competitor. But I think if you want to make the best product possible, well you benchmark it against the best out there and Model Y, you know, is the best selling car in the world. Best selling ev. So obviously you take that as a benchmark. As simple as that. All right.

Colt Winra: Electrification also does a lot for noise pollution which I'm sure raises the overall uh, stress levels in urban areas.

Fred Lambert: I agree, I agree. Yeah. Helps.

Colt Winra: I mean it's not just, it's all kinds of brake dust and there's all kinds of tertiary benefits. Mhm. Uh, moving on. Skeptic. Yeah. Every time I hear a loud motorcycle or Charger way off in the distance, I find for the future without loud cars. Charger being a Dodge Charger, not a. Yeah.

Fred Lambert: A friend of mine on one of those like it's the most ridiculous thing ever.

Colt Winra: All right, let's see. Me uh, too I live in the country, but trucks and motorcycles are kitted out to cause noise pollution for miles. Total losers. Yeah, we, we have uh, in my little town, we have a really serious battle over uh, gasoline, uh, leaf blowers. It's, it's like it fills up Facebook Every day and it's just so annoying. And, and the people that want to die on that hill about like just, you know, take it from my cold dead hands, like just try an electric one. They work just fine. And yeah, you don't have to fill it with oil and gas.

Fred Lambert: And the maintenance is so much easier.

Colt Winra: Yeah, it's like what's the big deal?

Fred Lambert: But the, the but. Well the, the leaf blowers though, electric are still pretty loud though.

Colt Winra: They're loud, but they're not as like they, they don't carry, I guess.

Fred Lambert: Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Colt Winra: I mean sometimes I'm trying to do the uh, the morning podcast and um, there's like my neighbors are doing leaf blowers and it's really painful.

Fred Lambert: Mhm.

Colt Winra: All right. Donut is basically a corner tiger right now. It's hard to see any graceful way out for them. So I'm expecting even more craziness from Marco.

Fred Lambert: Okay. Ah, at this point, like I just, I talked to one of the investor earlier and I'm like, you gave me a whole speech. I'm like, okay, okay. Like at this point the only thing that would convince me is like send me one. Send m. Me a cell. Send me a cell. We'll test it. You know, I live right next to uh, the Shawingan uh, college which has a battery lab in there with that can take apart battery cells and everything. Have me sign an NDA and everything so that I don't, I don't have to. To release anything but just. We're just making electric. We will. You know, I have an ND that I can just write an article on electric and said I cannot like selling for the details to uh, to, to, to, to competitor because I guess that's their excuse for not sending the cells to anyone. It's a pretty good excuse but also convenient when you're being accused of having fake technology. Uh, so like I like that's the only thing that would really convince me. Or, or did you do that with someone else that would trust like Zyra for example? Send one to Zara. He's a, he's a doctor in chemistry or whatever. I don't know what's his specifically doctorate is but he's uh, he's an expert, I'm sure. And, and he's the one driving most of that. The coverage around it. So send him one and you know, prove him wrong. All right.

Colt Winra: 29 mato says what country or u. S. State has solved EV charging by your opinion? It is like 20 to 30 ultra fast chargers. Every 50 miles on the highways, more or less. Certainly, uh, not, uh, anywhere around where I live. Uh, the US is kind of behind on that. Say like Norway or somewhere in Europe or China.

Fred Lambert: I haven't been in Norway in a minute. But I would assume that that would be my assumption too, that it's the where, David. But honestly, basically in Quebec.

Colt Winra: Uh, pretty good.

Fred Lambert: I, I don't, I don't remember last time that I had a real issue with, with charging. You know, it doesn't stop me from going anywhere. Uh, uh, so it can be better, obviously. Can always be better. And like I say that and I'm sure that there's a few K bakers that are watching right now that are like, Fred, you're crazy. And when I go to this place and I don't like for sure, but for the most part for me it's like, it's not a big deal. Um, you know, I would, I would like more faster charging station for sure. Like uh, like uh, Tesla is, you know, the best network by far. But uh, you know, that's the only thing that, yeah, that's a good example. That's the only thing that I really watch for nowadays is like since I drive a Tesla, I mostly charge at Supercharger. Can charge somewhere else too. But I uh, do look at the charging station, the Supercharger station to see the power uh, that it has because it can be 250, can be 100, 250 station. Obviously I want the 250 because my car can take it a little bit more. No, not that much because the charge rate hasn't improved quite a bit in the Model 3. Actually went down on the Model 3 in recent years.

Colt Winra: All right. It's uh, very hard to get an order invite right now from Ruan. Lots of people online impatiently waiting.

Fred Lambert: Yeah, I've been hearing that. Have you, have you heard the same thing?

Colt Winra: Uh, I have not. But doesn't surprise me because there's been such good reviews of them. Uh, Tesla would g is gaining sales again in Europe. Do they have a chance to reach 2 million this year? Even in Slovenian Croatia you can see 3 and Y everywhere.

Fred Lambert: Yeah, it's as picked up for sure for everyone and, and including Tesla. The, the gas prices have done their thing.

Colt Winra: Yep. And Elon's not been too loud, um, lately.

Fred Lambert: W. You're not on Twitter.

Colt Winra: That's true.

Fred Lambert: He's non stop retweeting. Racist.

Colt Winra: Okay, well I guess maybe contained.

Fred Lambert: Yeah, I will. Yeah, probably. But like, like this week it blew my mind because like the Guy just became a trillionaire. He just, you know, you know, and it's on paper, it doesn't mean anything. It might not be by the end of the year, who knows. But uh, concretely though, what he has now is he m. Managed to raise $75 billion. He has that in this pocket right now at SpaceX, which he claims for years that his entire goal was to, you know, raise a ton of money to be able to colonize Mars and make life multiplanetary. Which is, you know, a goal that I agree with. I don't agree how he raised that money, but still. And instead of just like being celebrating this week is like we ah and be positive like we have a chain, a uh, good chance now to make life multiple theory. And he spent the whole week just tweeting and retweeting some bigots about, you know, race wars type of like just to me look, he looks like a guy, you know, he's the first trillionaire. So that, that would make sense. The guy, that very rich guy, very wealthy guy that's pretty worried about, you know, wealthy inequality in a race war. And uh, another race war, a class war. And uh, so he's instead stoking a race war so that he can avoid a class war. That's what it looks like to me. Which it is, you know, conspiracy minded, uh, for sure. But the, the if he's not that he looks, he makes it look like that by his behavior.

Colt Winra: Yeah. All right. Uh, okay, thanks. It's not, it's not us thing to drive without brakes. Taxis, etc could use them too. But yeah, to me that tech isn't revolutionary. Give me 20 alpies can powers over 6 flash chargers any day.

Fred Lambert: Uh, well, yeah, I get the argument like uh, but uh, I think, I think there's place for both. I think that's the, that's the main thing.

Colt Winra: A Trail Seeker is 10,000 less than the R2.

Fred Lambert: Uh, the R2 right now or. Yeah, uh, or yeah, right now.

Colt Winra: Yeah, I think the base R2S45.

Fred Lambert: Uh, so uh, yeah, I think it's around that. So that makes sense.

Colt Winra: Uh, all right. Uh, every summer on weekends, up to 250,000 vehicles are entering the coastal highway networks in Croatia. If all were bevs. How to solve charging of that amount of cars?

Fred Lambert: Well, uh, the coastal highway network. So I don't, I don't know exactly what you mean by that. Obviously it means the highway near the coast. But uh, I, I like. Are people initially driving more than the full range of the car on those highways consistently because, because the, the thing like most of the charging happens at home, most of the charging happens overnight. Uh, so it's not um, I don't, it's not like these 250000 cars are going to need necessarily to, to charge. Uh, the, so I don't know, I don't know that the, the metric that you're using right now is that would be that the right one. Uh, but the solution to that is obviously a lot of chargers along the way. There's just no, no other solution.

Colt Winra: All right. Model Y can't do anything off road and stinks in poor conditions from when I rented one for a ski trip. Correct. That's true. Model Y off road is very scary. Suspension not built for it. Snow is not so bad if you got good tires, uh, for light off road trails, fire roads. Would be crazy to install a lift kit on a Model Y all wheel drive. Just want to do very light off roading, washboard roads, nothing gnarly. Uh yeah, it uh, would be nice when there are a few chargers at every off ramp of the freeway like it is for gas stations today. Um, I would say actually uh, if you're going to Philadelphia from New York through New Jersey, pretty close to that. M, like there's a Tesla charger at almost every stop and when there's not Tesla chargers, there's Electrify America and of course bunch of other stuff. So we're getting there. Uh, all the Nordic countries, uk, Netherlands, Denmark have working chargers everywhere.

Fred Lambert: Mhm.

Colt Winra: I uh, camped in the California sequoias. That's the limit with charging network. The road into Kings Canyon ends in deep forest and Sierra Nevadas. Little out of context on that one. What do you mean? Colonizing Mars is the goal that you agree with? You need to read more about Mars viability. There is none.

Fred Lambert: Uh, yeah, I mean I should clarify that. I mean I meant more that I do agree with making human life multi planetary long term. I think that's you know, just if we want to preserve human consciousness at one point, you know, I, I, my focus would definitely be to make her, you know, livable as long as we can. But even if we succeed in that, you know, the, at one point the sun's uh, gonna swallow it and even if it's billions of years away, you know, I think as humans our goal is to you know, survive as it's our instinct at least to survive as much as we can. Uh, I, I do agree that m, you know, no one wants to go live in Mars, myself included. Uh, it's, it's just not an idea that's uh, compelling to, to me at all. I think we want to go a lot further than, than Mars long term. It's just that, uh, we, we need a first goal. So whether that be Mars or. I'm open to, to other things too. I'm not, I'm not entirely focused on Mars or anything like that, but I think, uh, I think it's a generally a good goal to have for humanity to go multiple. Uh, not specifically Mars, which just the easiest one to get to probably.

Colt Winra: Yep. All right. Elon is either really basic or the biggest huckster in history hyping Mars colonization. I think both. Yeah, well, I don't know, Carlton. San Diego. There will never be enough people willing to give up Earth to live miserably for the rest of their life on Mars.

Fred Lambert: Yeah, you know, uh, it's definitely not the, the goal. I mean, and I'm not, I'm not saying by the way, that I believe Iman when I, when he said that he wants to make life multiplanetary. I'm m saying that it's. On the contrary. I'm saying it's pretty weird that he's never been so close to his goal right now. Uh, and, and it's not really the focus. It's still so much focus on weird. Weird that m. It might, there might be some, you know, very malicious reason behind it or you might just have fried his brain on Twitter. I don't know either one. But uh, I mean if you're on the media space today is just. Every story is about Elon Musk is the first trillionaire. Elon Musk is the first trillionaire. And people are so focused on that. And I'm like, it's, it's strange to me because the way it's going right now, I don't think is going to be remembered as the world's first trillionaire. Uh, because. Let's go. And I'm not, you know, you can say I'm a Elon hater for whatever reason, but uh, I'm not delusional. I'm not saying that Elon has not created any kind of wealth or anything like that. He definitely has created wealth. I benefited from Elon's wealth creation myself. Said also. So we're not blind to that. It's just that if I'm being even, I'm being like generous right now. I think that about 80% of Elon's wealth is based on speculative future earnings from Tesla and SpaceX and that's being generous probably. So if that's the case, if those future speculative earnings don't materialize, uh, there's this 80% wealth is just not going to be there anymore. It's just going to atrophy to nothing or back to the 20% that it's somewhat real if it's still there by then. Uh, so I think that Elon, if that happens, Elon won't be remembered as the world first trillionaire. I think he's going to be remembered as that guy that wiped out $3 trillion of shareholder value. And uh, you know, Elon is already one of the most hated person in the world. And I think most people that don't hate him, don't hate him because he's made them money or they believe that he's about to make them money. And if he lose $3 trillion of shoulder value, I mean there's, there won't be a place out there that he'll be safe. I'm not, and I'm not advocating violence against him in any way whatsoever. I'm just saying that uh, you know, if right now he thinks he needs like a bunch of bodyguards, there's a lot of people are gonna be angry as hell ah, at him. And uh, it's going that way I think unfortunately. But yeah, that was my little uh, rent on uh. And yeah. And as Laker says, it will also break the stock market. That's uh, that's a scary thing the way, the way I see it right now, you know, I know no financial advice. I'm not, I'm not as. But I did build myself a nice little. And, and I should say said by the way, I, I didn't meant to but I did buy the IPO from SpaceX. Yeah. Because uh. So, well, Sample, which is the broker that I use right now as um, as a way to actually uh, buy ipo. Get, get some IPO allocations from. So I know Robin Hood also has it all the other brokers now the retail brokers have them in the US too. So you can request a location and uh, I wanted to m. The way I thought you could request an allocation and not necessarily buy it. I wanted to request uh, 200 shares and see how many they would allow me to buy from that. To get an idea of just. Is it really oversubscribed? Is it really uh, a lot of demand for this? Uh, I thought I didn't automatically buy them if they gave me an allocation out of what I requested. And sure enough I asked for 200 share and they gave me 34. Um, I wasn't no worried about it honestly because I, I knew it was gonna pop on the first day and sure enough, so I sold all of them at $170 and I'm happy with it because it went and went down since. But uh, yeah, so the way I see it though is uh, if you look at the lockup uh, schedule for insiders at SpaceX over the next year, it's a weird ass one. Like there's, they change a bunch of rule for it and everything if I understand it correctly and unquote on me because it's, it's still a bit opaque. I think we're gonna learn more in the next few months. But Elon is the only one that has a full year lockup which is good, uh, because he owns like I think 40% of the equity of SpaceX. So it's, it's good. But a lot of people have lockups ending in the next few months and uh, if I understand it correctly, I think by October you have over 50 of the lockups are done like over 50 of uh, of the shares are not locked up anymore and they can be traded. Uh, so that's uh, I think by that point we're going to start to see a lot of pressure on SpaceX because unless they can deliver some crazy AI revenue from then before then, uh, I think we're in for a rough time on the stock market unfortunately. All right, that's it for us Electric podcast this week. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you did, please give us a, like a thumbs up whatever it is on the app, we appreciate it when you do. It's free and it helps more than you think, push up into the algorithm and whatnot. And uh, yeah if you are listening on the podcast app, if you can give us a 5 star rating only if you think we deserved it obviously. Uh, that also helps the show quite a bit and we appreciate when you do it. I hope you guys have a safe weekend. We're going to see you same time, same place next week. Have a fun one.