Episode 073: Alicia Hickey, Uniper

Speaker A: Welcome to the Economics and Strategy Podcast where business plans and market behavior intersect. I'm your host, Rich Mullen. This podcast is brought to you by the Business Strategy and Decision making program at DePaul University's Department of Economics. Alicia Hickey is an unapologetically smart, confident and skilled woman from DePaul's Department of Economics MSCPA program. She joins us this month to talk about how she built a successful career and to give thanks to those who helped her fully embrace her abilities in a intelligence. Alicia is currently Director of Commercial Operations North America at the European energy giant Uniper and oversees a team charged with managing complex trade operations in the energy markets. Her current position and responsibilities are the result of her choices in education, work experience, and the strong women that helped guide her forward. You have to listen to this one. Alicia Hickey, welcome to the Economics and Strategy podcast.

Speaker B: Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me today.

Speaker A: Of course we're going to have a good time. I'm sure of it, for our audience. Alicia is an MSEPA grad from 2011 and a double demon, which is nice to have another double demon on. Thank, uh, you for that, as we always do. Let's start out and you give our audience a little bit about you, kind of your background, your interests, your hobbies, where are you from, whatever you're comfortable with. Just give us kind of the backstory. How's that?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, uh, my name is Alicia Hickey. I'm originally from the Boston area. I grew up, uh, just north of Boston in a little town called the Hunt, little beach town. Um, grew up a lot, you know, boating, going to the beach. My dad's a fisherman. We used to go fishing in the Keys a lot. Um, just a little bit about my background growing up. In high school, I was, um, I was an okay student and I was a big, uh, I was into cheering and gymnastics, things like that, and a lot of school spirit. So I, in high school, you know, I was kind of ready to grow up a bit. I really, um, enjoyed the city. Going to Boston and Chicago is always kind of interesting to me. So we'll get into that a little bit later. But now I'm actually back in the Boston area in the past few years and, um, my personal interest, you know, I do have a family. I have two kids, a very little 11 month old and an almost 3 year old, so they keep me very busy. Um, I moved back to the same town I grew up in, but my husband and I was that right. Yes, I grew up. I'm About a quarter. I can look at my mom. I'm looking out the window. I can see the house I grew up in. My mom's. My parents still live there. So, um. God, that's.

Speaker A: That's really cool. Particularly with the little ones, by the way. There's a certain synergy with having the grandparents nearby. That's great.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm back. I'm back near my family. Um, yeah, if my. We like traveling, cooking, fitness, spending time with the kids, hiking, going to the beach. So. Yeah, and it's really nice being back near family. We need some extra help because my husband, I both work quite a bit, which we'll get into all that fun stuff. Yeah, a little bit, hopefully.

Speaker A: So you were in cheer? You know, my oldest daughter was in cheer. And I will tell you a little bit about my introduction to that. She did it for, I think three of the four years she was in, um, high school. And one of the things I learned about cheer is it's a lot more dangerous than people think it is.

Speaker B: It is, yeah.

Speaker A: It really, like, I, uh, was a little surprised. And also the, the uh, introduction to me being there and being at those events where they compete is the audience. Uh, engagement is next level. Uh, I don't know if that's true for you, but for me, like, the audience was all over that, you know, louder than at basketball games, you know, cheering for the team. Like it was crazy.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's a big part of the game. So we always had, um, enjoyed the energy of it and our families would get really into it as well and like you mentioned. So it is a lot of fun. It brings school spirit and it is dangerous. A lot of backflips and throwing girls in the air and catching them on, you know, like you said, at a basketball game on a hardwood floor. So injuries are inevitable, but it's a lot of fun.

Speaker A: It, uh, it was a, it was a, it was an awakening for me to, you know, to watch that. So the, uh, I should say for our audience, uh, Alicia is right now director of communic commercial operations North America for a company called Uniper, which is a European or German specifically energy company. We will get into all that later. Uh, you've had a. Almost 11 year career there now with Uniper. But let's go back a little bit to the after, uh, high school stuff and give us a little bit about what made you choose DePaul and to come to Chicago.

Speaker B: So growing up in Boston, I always loved the city, but it felt a little a Little small. And I was ready to grow up. I was ready to have my own identity, very close to my family. But I think it was just a time, a formative time in my life that I wanted to branch out. I grew up going. So Boston felt a little small. Love Boston, but felt small. We used to vacation a lot in the summer. We'd go to New York City, go see shows, things like that. I always love to visit there, but I never felt that connection that I wanted to live there. So when we went to go get DePaul, and mind you, it was the dead of winter. It was. I think it was January. There was 6 inches of snow on the ground. And I just fell in love with Chicago, like, at its worst time of the year. I'd even known how amazing the summers and spring and fall were. And, um, yeah, when we went out to Chicago, it felt a lot bigger than Boston, with a lot of. It felt limitless and full of opportunities, like New York without the chaos of New York. So it reminded me of, like, the quaintness and the beauty of Boston with, I don't know how big and, uh, how many opportunities are in New York. So it was. It was kind of like a good hybrid of that New York, Boston feel. And I just. I instantly fell in love with it. I loved Lincoln Park. I thought it was very quaint. It felt like there's a lot of opportunities at DePaul with the Downtown campus especially, so. So, yeah, I went and my mom was shocked that I was moving out to Chicago, where I have Boston and New York so much closer.

Speaker A: You broke her heart, didn't you?

Speaker B: I did. I broke my mom's heart. Yes. Um, and I was in Chicago for 17 years. I love Chicago still. It still feels like home to me. Um, but, yeah, I was just drawn to the city and. Yeah, just felt like there was a lot of opportunities and it was a feeling anything. It was a feeling that I just loved about it. Still do.

Speaker A: Um, so you are, uh, now you were a 4.1 or 4 and 1, right? 4 plus 1. Excuse me?

Speaker B: The inaugural 4 plus 1, is that right? Yes, that.

Speaker A: You did tell me that. Yeah, that was the first. Yeah. So was your interest in economics. Did you have that in high school? Were you. There was no. So I don't.

Speaker B: I don't even know if I knew what economics meant in high school, to be honest. Yeah, I had no, um. No, I had nothing before that interest me in economics until I actually got there. Um, I was. I didn't even apply into the business School initially, to be honest, I was, uh, I believe a psychology major when I started. Or an undeclared in the arts and science. The, uh, art school. Yeah. Or liberal arts. Liberal arts. Thank you. The liberal arts school.

Speaker A: How did it happen? How did you change and get into economics and go through the 4/1 MSEPA track?

Speaker B: So I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I loved being in Chicago. I liked the busyness that feel in the pace of a big city. And I think business, econ, finance, that world go, um, hand in hand. And I remember going down to the Loop campus and trying to figure out what I. What I wanted. I like being down there. And then I think I took one economics course and I changed from more the liberal arts background and applied into the business school and got in. I did not pick a major at that point. And I thought, uh, economics was really interesting. It helped me understand the way the world works and the things that were important, cause and effect, uh, big into problem solving. You have some math, you have some theory. And I always say economics is a soft skill that's very impressive to two employers. And, um, I just think it's an impressive study, and I think it encompasses a lot of different areas, whether it's understanding history, finance, numbers. Um, and yeah, I just. I was really drawn to it more than any other subject within the business school. And then the, um, the four plus one program came around, and I, um, had taken one of Dr. Bucci's classes and kept a good relationship with her and said, why not? Why not stick around? So, um, yeah, so that was my. That was my path to economics. I liked that it was in the business school, some other colleges. It does live in the liberal arts because it kind of. It's that midpoint between liberal arts and also finance and business. So. Yeah, I like that it was in the business school.

Speaker A: And yeah, you know, you hit on what I liked about it, too. It's empirically focused social science.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So the other question I had for this section was, who was most influential in your choosing this path? Now, you answered that on your own, uh, with one of my favorite people, uh, Gabriella Bucci. You know, I, uh, have a lot of love for that woman. Yeah, she's always been a champion of women and, uh, championing women in places where maybe they don't get as much representation as they should. As a girl, dad, I'm always thankful for that kind of person. So, okay, so you're in your four plus one. And how did you get exposure to work during that time, give us a little bit of uh, your introduction to the workaday world as you were uh, in your program.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, it was, it started in undergrad before the MSEPA program. So when I first started at DePaul, I work, I actually worked at the Chicago History Museum, which was my very first job. Which sometimes it's just getting that first job on your resume that shows that you're going to show up and you have responsibilities and it's nice to have some spending cash and that will help know, get you into the more focused jobs into your in to what you specialize in. So from there I worked at a health foundation. It was in the Hancock, felt really exciting. Go to the Hancock Building every day and get off the Chicago Red Line and walk up Chicago Avenue. Um, so that was fun. It was more health focused. But I did the finance piece where um, I would update all their statements. You know, every day that I worked. It was great. It was part time. It's one of the wonderful things about DePaul is that you are in the middle of Chicago and there's tons of opportunities. You can intern part time. You know, I'd work 10, 15, 20 hours a week depending on what my schedule allowed for. I used to take a lot of night classes so that I could intern during the day. And um, that was great because my title was finance intern. It didn't matter what industry it was in. And from there when I started my graduation, uh, my four plus one program, I started working at ah, an asset management company downtown called Aster Asset Management. And that's when I really discovered that I wanted to get a bit more into the finance space. That's um, a great thing with economics. People go the policy route or it's often, you know, very usable within uh, the finance world as well. So I started interning at ah, Aster. I was also doing um, one of the fellowship programs. So um, I worked for the professors at DePaul as well at the same time I was our graduate assistant. That was the word as um, a graduate assistant at DePaul. And then yeah, so that was, that's what I did in the meantime to just kind of build up my resume to position myself well for a full time job once I had graduated.

Speaker A: Yeah, being able to work in the, in the loop, you know, riding the train and doing all the things, particularly when you're in undergrad or if you're in a four plus one, you're in the early years. This, the sense of independence has to be great. You Know, um, can you give us a little bit about what you did for Aster?

Speaker B: Aster. Oh, that was a long time ago. What did I do? Um, I did. I helped a lot with, um, I did some of the typical intern jobs. Like I did filing, and I, you know, did things, little things around the office. Right. That maybe aren't. That I'm not doing now in my job necessarily, but at least I was being exposed. You know, some of these. Some of the great things about interning, it's not just what you're learning in the internship. It's how to conduct yourself in an office, how to conduct yourself on a phone call, how to dress, how to interview. A lot of that is a huge part of interning, and it is very important. And then they would have me do little projects. Um, I would sit with everybody at the company. They were doing a whole revamp of all their process documentation. So I would sit there with a pen and paper and sit with the head of operations and say, okay, what happens in your day? And, you know, you learn about the life cycle of a trade, and you'd write it all down and type it up and send it to the head of operations. You got maybe 65% of it right. Trying to conceptualize what it is and never actually have done it myself. I've never had clicked through the buttons and saw the screens and took screen prints, but at least I could write out, you know, the 25 steps in the process, which you learn how it would work in real life. And then I would sit down with the head of risk and write down their process documents. So it was a great way to learn it, at least conceptually, um, front to end. And then I would do other things, help write up policies, and in that process, learn. I believe I wrote up an AML policy which is anti money laundering. And so I kind of learned what that meant. And I would send some emails for the sales team. Granted, I wasn't the one doing the sales. I was just supporting the sales team and what they needed to expand the business.

Speaker A: Yeah, Having to write down those steps is not. I mean, that is a really important thing.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: As far as the skill, uh, and particularly if you're writing it down early on in your career, think of the payoff that has on, um, the very complex job that you have right now. That's a great way to start. So can you highlight, before we move on to our next section, kind of what it is you particularly liked about that finance role? You mentioned it early when you talked about being at Aster, what was it?

Speaker B: I think I liked the pace and the formality of it, uh, felt important, it felt exciting. Um, I think the finance world is very interesting. And yeah, I mean I, I think I just was drawn, I was drawn to the pace, I was drawn to the, the culture and the pace of it.

Speaker A: Got it. Now let's say you're, you finished your um, 4.1. What was your first job?

Speaker B: So I, I remember it very vividly. I was, I graduated on a, on a Saturday. I was still interning at Aster and interviewing there. And then I also was working with a recruiter and got an interview at um, it's now Northern Trust. At the time it was part of Citadel, the hedge fund and it was their third party hedge fund, uh, third party hedge fund management company. It was called, uh, Omnium at the time, which was then it was bought by Northern Trust. So we'll call it Northern Trust Hedge Fund Services. And I had, yeah, so I interviewed there, I took on and I ended up getting an offer from my internship and I got an offer from Northern Trust. Northern Trust's role was not exactly what I was looking for, but it felt like the right place of where I wanted to be in the hedge fund space. And so I took, I took a role that uh, it was in between the application side on like the technical side and the end users. So it's kind of in between it and an operations role. I was in it for about 10 months and I then moved on to a product control role. And that's what the brunt of my first job was, was product control, which is pricing valuations day over day. P and L reporting for hedge funds. So you would be allocated anywhere from five to 10 hedge funds that you were their P and L profit and loss reporting, uh, pricing and valuation, uh, analyst. So that was the majority of my, when I think of my first job, I really think of that role. Um, and I had like a stepping stone stone role that I was in for a short period, um, because I knew that's where I wanted to be ultimately.

Speaker A: How valuable was it to have this stepping stone? Well, two questions. How valuable was that stepping stone role, as you look back on it now and then also, I mean you were looking for a. What were we? Did you know what you were looking for when you were first looking for a job? And if so, why did this Northern Trust as we're calling it, uh, position fit?

Speaker B: Uh, I don't think I knew exactly what I was looking for. I was still learning what it meant to Work in finance. I was drawn to the company before I was drawn to the role. It was very important that I took that role because I could have ended up on a different team within Northern Trust and been siloed into a very specific part of the company. The role I took on worked with every single shared services team within the company. And so I got to understand what it was front to end all the different teams, what they did, which, had you explained it to me right when I graduated, would I have understood it? Absolutely not. I got to work for 10 months. I knew it was a stepping stone. Even, um, the head of that, that department who was in the C suite, she was the only female in that high of a position who kind of looked at me and said, hey, this is a great way to get your foot in the door here. If you hear in a year, I'm going to be disappointed because I think you have more potential. And so she helped me navigate that, and that was really important that I had that, that person, that pillar, that somebody to look up to, that I trusted to help me navigate the other team. So she took the time to say, hey, you should sit down and have coffee with this person and understand what their group does. There's a book, it's called the Life Cycle of. It's like 400 pages, 500 pages long. It's huge. Uh, but it explains the life cycle of a trade. And you know, she, she was that person to kind of give me these little tidbits of how to find what it was I was really looking for and where I would be best fit. And I was interested in this one group, Product Control, which I found interesting because it was a lot about pricing, valuation, and it had a very big, um, customer service role, like a financial services role, where you were interacting directly with the hedge funds that you worked for. And I, that was something that I always was naturally good at, was talking and, um, relationships, relationship management. So after meeting with different department heads and, and you'll find this out when you start working. People are willing to talk about what they do. They want to tell you what to do. And if you're willing to ask the questions and you're willing to take the time to go grab a coffee and take the initiative to do so, they will help you. Um, a lot of people that have worked in industry a long time, they want to groom people that care. And so I found that pretty easily, which helped position me into a team that I learned a lot from and, um, did well in, because I did have that 10 months to kind of get the lay of the land and figure out what was the best team that I could, you know, excel in. And, and it was a, it was a great fit.

Speaker A: Another important woman in your path that helped you. Right. And I, I, uh, remember from our pre interview, her name is Pam. Is that right?

Speaker B: Yes. Pam Higdon. Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah. These are good things. I would, I guess I would ask, you know, think about yourself in the latter parts of your 4.1, or a young person out there looking for a job. What advice would get you? Give them about this first role. And I'm specifically speaking to the first role, you know, where you were struggling and trying to figure things out and all the rest of that.

Speaker B: So I do want to rewind back to Dr. Bucci really quick because she was, I feel like we skimmed over that and she was such a, uh, pivotal person. It was such an intimidating and pivotal time when you are finishing college, you're in your junior senior year, you're, you know, you're in the four plus one program, and it is very pivotal, pivotal. And I meshed very well with Dr. Bucci early on. And she saw things in me that I didn't see in myself where I remember having a conversation with her that was, I think, a bit self, in looking back on it, a bit self deprecating. And I was praising somebody else who I had thought, you know, had gone to a better university and had this great job. And, um, you know, she looked at me and said, you know, I think all those things about you. You are smart, you are, uh, driven and hardworking. And she was a pivotal person to say she was for the four plus one program. She said, hey, I think you're a great fit for this. And I never saw myself that way. I never saw myself as smart. I just thought I was hard working and kind of did what I had to do to get to the next thing or the next level or get that internship or recommendation. Um, so I think it started there having somebody bring out something in me that I didn't see in myself. And then that gave me the confidence to do the economics master's program. I don't think I would have even applied if it wasn't for her, to be completely honest. And then I saw something similar when I met Pam and she looked at me and said, if you're in this role, you know, this is a stepping stone role. If I see you here in a year from now, I'm going to be disappointed. I think that you have so much more potential. Please Take this time to really hone in and figure out what it is you want to do, and I'll help you get there. And so I went to her when I had questions or, um, felt like I was at a dead end. And they're very important. It's important that you listen to the people who see things in you that will help you excel or shine a light on something that you don't see in yourself. Um, it's really easy to get imposter syndrome in the industry. Everything seems. Everyone seems to know what they're doing or they're scary or smart, and they're not. If you break it down and have conversations and show that you care, um, and it'll just allow you to get to that next level, whether it's promotion or a different job or get that first job, your foot in the door, just to be in the right place.

Speaker A: Yeah, leaning in. Uh, having women who feel confident enough to lean in, because all those things are true. I mean, I'm 62 years old. I've run a bit. I grew a business from an idea to some size and sold it. I still have imposter syndrome. So this is a common thing. And the quicker you understand that everyone has imposter syndrome in some degree or the other and start believing the good things or have a champion to say, you should believe these good. Dr. Bucci. Pam Higdon. You know, you should believe these things. I'm going to close this with one more thing. I did an event the other night, A, uh, panel, alumni panel from the business Strategy program that I help work for. And I had a young woman named Christina who helped from the, uh, who worked in the help desk in the help office at the economics department. I didn't know her, but she came and helped me with check in and it got a little chaotic, as events can do. And she was just doing a terrific job. I mean, like, on it, like you would not believe it. And I turned to her a couple times and I said, you are so on it. And she looked at me and she said, looked me square in the eye and said, I know I am. And you know, you're leaning over and smiling right now. I'm saying this for the audience. You know who I thought of? Gabriella Bucci, that this is a disciple of Gabriella Bucci. That's exactly what I thought when she did that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and so what I said earlier, I, I firmly believe, ah, exactly what you said about her is that when she gets people to do that, all those things are true. Anyways, it just takes you from leaning on your heels to leaning on your toes a little bit. Understand that you do belong, you should be here, you should be making those decisions. So yeah, to all of it. Um, good. And that's great advice. After you left, you left Northern Trust and went to Uniper after this. How did you find that opportunity? Why did you leave Northern Trust? Give a little, little conversation about the transition to the between companies and roles.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I was working in like I said, the um, product control role. I built a wonderful community at Northern Trust. I met a lot of women that we really helped each other how to be a woman in the workplace. And you know it is a. Finance and energy are uh, male dominated professions and it was great to have a great network of people, both men and women that you know we all kind of helped each other through that process and it was very important time those first few years that you're working and kind of putting your head down and working. And um, I had also made a, my current boss, um, one of my, you know, near and dear friends um, that I met at Northern and he's you know I work with him now. He was working at Northern ah Trust at the time he went to. It was eon at the time, it's now Uniper and they were opening up a US trading arm because we are a large um, energy company in Europe. He was the six hire. He was built up their operations team and he was moving to the front office and I had kept in great contact with him and he said hey, I'm changing roles. Would you be interested in interviewing to backfill the operations role? And I said sure. Okay. And I interviewed with them and it felt like a big risk at the time because maybe at this point there was less than 20 people in the North American trading operation. And I had interviewed there and I thought hey, this is kind of cool and exciting to be in the door. They had started treating about a year and a half before I had interviewed there different industry because now we're moving into energy. But when you work in financial operations it's a lot of the same concepts. Um, whether it's trading energy products, yes, the products are very different. But trading energy products versus you know, working on the operation side of hedge fund products. So very transferable. It felt like a very big risk at the time. But it felt like the right time to be. I'll be honest, I wasn't looking, I wasn't even interviewing. I liked my job. I moved up uh, quickly. I was A team lead. I was working to become one of the larger managers on the team and I thought, hey, this is a cool time to get in when there's less than 20 hires. So interviewed and got the role as a senior analyst. And yeah, I've been there for. June will be 11 years.

Speaker A: Define the risk. You said it was a little risky. Is that because of the newness of the operation or.

Speaker B: Okay, um, yeah, it felt risky because they were so small. Um, you know, when I. So Ed is who, uh, my friend slash Kurt Pause who had brought me over to Uniper and I mean he was helping through the lights in and set up phone lines. I mean that's, you know, we were only like from. Yeah, I mean we. At that time he was, they were still building and he was ordering couches for the office. I mean he was doing operations scheduling, physical gas. You know, it was very much in the startup phase. Um, I was right after the true startup piece of the North America business. So yeah, I felt, it felt risky. Um, you know, we only had a handful of traders at the time.

Speaker A: So 11 years in, does it still feel risky?

Speaker B: Um, yes and no. I mean I, I mean I'm very. I've stuck with the company because I've watched it expand and contract and change and break off and change names and start trading new uh, products. Divest the business, reinvest the business. So I've just seen so many different versions of the North American business and I've learned a lot. And risky. I mean any, any job has its risks. It has its own dysfunction. It's got perks, it's got benefits. You know, it just depends on um, how you look at it and where, what role you're in at the time when the company's growing or shrinking and in between transitions.

Speaker A: So, um, tell us a little bit about now. Uniper is a gigantic company in Europe. Uh, and tell us about how your unit fits in that larger organization. Kind of what it does for the organization and give the audience a little idea of the role that you guys play for Uniper proper.

Speaker B: Yeah. So Uniper as a whole, I mean they're a massive German based international energy company. They have power generation, um, global energy trading, gas storage. They also do wholesale to end users. So we, there's, I think there's seven to 8,000, 7,000 employees. Uniper Global North America is 75, 80 people. So we're much smaller operation. Um, we did come into existence in 2013, um, to supply the feed gas for global LNG exports. And um, so that was the basis of North America. And then it turned into an energy trading arm, um, for supply operations, you know, us. Then we opened Canada in 2018. Um, Connect, you know, we connect the energy producers with the end use, uh, end use market markets, um, domestically in the U.S. so our prime, our main operation is physical natural gas. We do trade some renewables. And, um, we did have a sizable power business at one point, uh, which we've since divested from. So physical and financial products, um, mainly in the gas space.

Speaker A: So do you think your tenure, which is almost 11 years now and being happy, I can tell from the look on your face you like your work. That why, why do you find this group specifically good to work with and, um, unique from an 8,000 employee, you know, global energy firm, what's unique about the North American operation that keeps you interested?

Speaker B: Uh, what I like about the North American operation is that we are very lean and efficient. We can do things very quickly. Our European operations, it's a great company to work for there. It's just a very, very different operation. There's a lot more hoops to jump through and red tape to get things done. For good reason because the teams are very, very siloed. And when I was at Northern, we were much more siloed as well, which, when you get into a larger organization, silos are important because you do have to have segregation of duties and you have full teams that can support it. In North America, we often see hybrid employees that can back each other. Sometimes you're doing things that are way, uh, outside the scope of your role, whether that's above what your role would be or below what your role would be at a typical organization with proper silos. So what ends up happening in that case is that you get exposed to a lot more. You, um, have a lot more flexibility in what you can do. There's less red tape to get things done because you're sitting next to the person. Person that maybe is in a different department, but you can work together much quickly, Much more quickly. We sit a ro. My team, uh, we're based in Houston in the U.S. um, and the way that our desks are, are separated is, I mean, we're two rows over from our head trader. And you know, you have an issue with a trade you can go over and I mean quite literally tap them on the shoulder and say, hey, you gotta update the street because it's messing up XYZ process down the chain. And that just makes us, allows us to be efficient and lean, whereas In Europe, you know, I think the front off the floor where traders are, you have to have a special key card access. It just feels much, they feel much further from you both physically and from a support perspective. Um, so it's just a different, it's a different setup. But I do, what I do enjoy is that we can all work together. We like to have a bit of a family feel, you know, everybody's first and last name. Um, it's approachable to talk to our head trader. It's not always like that at every company, um, especially trading firms, it can be a little bit different. So that was one thing that I really have always really appreciated about the North American business.

Speaker A: I want to remind you that part of why, you know, um, the necessity of having a siloed organization is because you wrote process when you were early on in your. Yeah, yeah, you're nodding your head but that's why you know that. I mean it's part of that early career stuff that we were talking about. In your current role as uh, Director of Commercial Operations is a big title. So I want you to give me, give our audience, um, some idea of what you do in a week. Like top three, four, five things that are the most important things for you to keep a check on your work.

Speaker B: So my team, uh, Commercial Operations is the majority of a typical back office. So we handle trade confirmations, margin and settlements. So the most important thing if you work at a trading organization is understanding the life cycle of a trade. And I know I've said that a few times and it is very important to understand what that means. So as soon as a trader makes, executes a trade, whether it's on the exchange or over the counterparty, you know, with, with a uh, counterparty that might be on the phone, it might be a chat, it might be a text. Depends on, you know, which trading platforms you're on. As soon as that trade hits the system, my team has a lot of work to do. And you could trade something that you execute today, that settles. When I say settle, I mean paying and receiving the funds on that contract or receiving a physical, you know, physical gas or um, some sort of product. Right? So that could happen. Trade today for tomorrow or you could trade it today and it doesn't settle till 2028. So in between when you trade it to, when it settles, a lot happens in that time. So the trade comes in and that first thing that happens is trade, you know, trade processing. It has to get in the system. So a lot of times my team is helping Process getting those trades in. If there are errors with that, we have to make sure it gets in by the end of the day. Then we check all the economics of that trade. That's a trade confirm. So the front office executes and then each company will have a back office that they will send either. Like sometimes you get like an actual physical paper confirm. There's electronic platforms that match all the economics. Price, volume, um, location, um, payment terms, pricing terms. And we'll check all of those and validate that that's correct. From now until when it settles, the price will fluctuate. So the value of that contract is going to change over time. So that's when you get into margin in mid office. So mid office is looking at the P and L pricing um, changes on that contract over time. So with margin what we're doing is if the price fluctuation is large, we have to cover that exposure or we want the counterparty or the exchange to cover that exposure to us and vice versa. So daily my team is paying and receiving with the exchange or counterparties, um, the amount that that contract value changes over time. So we handle margin. And then I mentioned this a lot, the settlement. So once that contract ends, expires, realizes, we pay and receive what actually you know, the actual settlement price for those contracts we're paying and receiving with our counterparties or the exchange. Once that happens, my team is done with our piece of the life cycle and then at the end then it'll go to accounting, it'll get into your financial statements, etc. Etc. That's not my team. But we're a very critical part for financial statements that once we close out it's done, it's paid or received and we make sure all that those cash flows happen. So those are my three main things. Conference margin settlements. We also do newly traded products. We call it the NTP process. So if we wanted to trade a new product or a new commodity, say we got into you know, oil or um, Rex, you know, renewable energy credits, that would have to run through my team. So we run a process where we work with every single support function, whether it's credit, legal, tax, risk, front office, um, accounting. We make sure everybody's good, that we can sign off and enable a new product from data set up in the system that our system can handle it. We have all the information, the pricing feeds that we need to be able to execute that product. Um, so it is a bit of a overhaul if we do trade a new type of product or um, a new type of Structured deal that would run through my team as well.

Speaker A: That's a lot. I, and I actually had questions written down about settlement and margin and stuff like that that I was going to ask, but I didn't need to because you're so prepared. You explained all that. Uh, thank you for that. That was great. In all that stuff, you work with a team and you manage a team. What are the skills that you find most useful?

Speaker B: Um, the skill set, at least what we look for when we're hiring and things that I find really important. Of course, your coursework is very important. You need to learn the, you know, the basics of finance and economic, you know, accounting. It's going to be very. What you learn in school is going to be very applicable, but it is very different based on what type of business you're working for, what type of company you're working for. Um, I think with economics in particular, the ability to problem solve, um, is invaluable. I mean, that's why I think economics is a very impressive degree to have because you just think in a different, in a different way. And it's just very, um, transferable to a lot of different industries, whether it's finance, energy, um, policy, what have you. What I think is most important, and I think these are soft skills. But this is what we look for because we don't expect students or, uh, new hires or interns that are coming in. They're going to know how to settle a trade. They're not going to necessarily know how to confirm a trade. But communication, that's one of the biggest things. The way you communicate is a direct result of your impact. Like how can you impact people to get them to do what you need them to do or ask the right questions so that you can properly do your job. So trying to find simple ways to explain things or understand information. For me, I'm, um, visual. I need pictures. I, you know, I like to see what it would look like. But everybody's different and how they. Yeah, how they understand. Yeah, I think it's. You can draw it out then. And you know, they say a, A problem properly explained is halfway solved. So like, if you can properly understand what the problem is and communicate that, you're already halfway to the solution. So communications, number one, accountability. Uh, being somebody that does what they say they're going to do. And if you, you can be the smartest person in the room. If you're not, if you can't communicate and you're not accountable for your work, it's useless. Um, you need to have follow through. It affects your relationships, it affects how you're viewed. And I don't mean that in a superficial way. I mean it in a way of is this somebody that I can count on? And um, are they going to communicate to me when something goes sideways that they're not going to get it done on time for XYZ reason? Um, so communication, accountability and the last one I always like to bring up and it's one of the biggest things that I look for in an interview is care factor. And my boss and I, we always, as we always rate people if they have a care, if they seem like they have a care factor. It's not something that's inherent, it is not something that can be taught. It's do you care about your job and are you going to do the right things? Do you have the integrity to do the right thing when you need to. In my role, we're a control function. So we sometimes have to go to bat with our traders and say, hey, I can't do that, I can't confirm this, I can't settle it this way. Um, I can't process this trade for xyz, you know, reason. So care factor that it's, I don't know if it's a personality trait, but I think it's just so important that you care and you have follow through. So yeah, those are my top three. Communication, accountability, care factor.

Speaker A: That was terrific. And uh, really good for the people that are listening. By the way, give me one thing on how your education helps you, uh, in your role.

Speaker B: I felt my education helped me, uh, through my network at DePaul was always great and um, I felt like economics allowed me to think creatively, have follow through problem solving. Um, obviously the biggest thing with economics, cause and effect in the history of how that works in different markets. Um, I think it's just a way of thinking and am I going to be solving an economics problem in my day to day job right now? No. But it trained my way of thinking in a way that I'm always just solving problems all day. How can we do this better? How can we make it work? How can we get the end result that we need? And I just thought that was invaluable to learn through economics.

Speaker A: So we are, as I always do, we are overtime. Uh, but that's on me, not you. Um, but we. Let's do our last section. So give me both some innovations that are going to influence your work significantly and then some threats that have, could have similar impact.

Speaker B: So I'm going to. Do I have an answer. One answer for both of them. And I don't know if it's necessarily a threat unless you don't change with the times. Is. And I'm sure you get this a lot, but AI is changing everything, uh, especially in operations. Because the thing that AI does wonderfully is streamline tedious repetitive processes in operations is tedious repetitive processes all day, every day now. And I think for students, it's great to know this, is that you'll be coming in fresh into a new AI world and learning that early on how to prompt. It doesn't have to be specific to your industry, but understanding how it works and how it can improve a daily job or task is very important. It's very important for me right now in my role. I'm used to Excel spreadsheets a lot and there's just a better way to be doing that. So we have to change with the times. And I'll tell you on my targets this year, we're going to be talking a lot. Whether it's from my boss to me or me to the folks on my team that report to me, there's going to be a huge focus on AI. There's a lot of investments in every company in how to streamline processes. We're already thinking of different ideas just how to make our jobs. Um, you know, there is an element of manual error and people miss a lot. And AI can help reduce that, um, time and time again. So. And as a control function, we're always looking for errors and mistakes. It can be. It's going to be a huge help, but it is going to change the way we work and the types of roles that we staff for. So it is something to keep in mind. And, um, and that's across every industry. It's not just trading and finance. Um, so it's just important to understand it and get on top of it and change with the times.

Speaker A: So, yeah, uh, yeah, I do get that a lot. And it's true, you know, the, um. But what it won't do is have a tough conversation with a trader.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So there's still the role. That role still exists. So you can improve the errors in the clerical work while still communicating with the other parties around you that you know those realities. Because AI is not going to be able to do that. It's not.

Speaker B: No, there's. There's no replacement for the humanness of our roles and relationships because all that stuff is so important. Um, but it's just, it's I think it's just the mindset of evolving, changing, growing in a different way. And this is going. This is going to drastically change a lot of industries and how we do things and.

Speaker A: Yeah, um. You killed it. This was great.

Speaker B: Thank you. Well, I really enjoyed this. This was fun chatting with you. You know, um, I love the connection to DePaul, and I hope, you know, if one person finds this helpful, helpful or interesting. Um, we've done our job here, and I hope, you know that I'm always part of the DePaul network, and if anybody, you know, wants to reach out or get my contact information, um, anybody has any questions, you know, I'm here, and I'm really happy we did this today. This is a lot of fun.

Speaker A: Uh, boy, those are some nice words to those that will be listening that you just said. So, um, uh, thank you again and see you soon. You've been listening to the Economics and Strategy Podcast, presented by the Business Strategy and Decision making program at DePaul University's Department of Economics. This episode was produced, edited and hosted by Rich Mullen. Our music was composed by Liz. Folks.