Winning Protein on Amazon - Live at DSS With Always off Brand - Episode 435

Matt Rosenfeld: This is the E Commerce Brain Trust, a podcast about building momentum online for established consumer brands. Join our hosts and their expert guests for high level conversations about e commerce strategies, trends and innovations. Access our brain trust and boost your brand's E commerce potential.

Julie Speer: Hi everyone and welcome back to the eCommerce BrainTrust podcast. I'm your host, Julie Speer, head of Retail Marketplace Services at Acadia. And this week I've got something a little bit different for you. A few weeks ago I joined Scott Oshman on the mic Scott Ashman of the Always Off Brand Podcast. While we were both at the Digital Shelf Summit in Atlanta and the conversation was too good and too fun and chock full of information not to share here as well, we covered a lot of ground. We talked about what it really takes for challenger brands to break through in crowded categories. We covered why retail media and the Digital Shelf need to work together, how AI, of course we talked AI. How AI is changing the way brands think about content, discoverability and customer experience. And to help us do that, we had Adam Janica from Trilliant Food and Nutrition. Trilliant Food and Nutrition is the company that owns Nuri, the delicious ready to drink protein drink. And we also had Matt Rosenfeld, who is also a part of the team here at Acadia, join the conversation with them. We got some real world examples launching and scaling brands. We talked about what separates winning PDPs from average ones, how to think about measurement beyond surface level metrics, and we even got into where we think E commerce is headed next. So as always with Scott, there is a plenty of humor, it was a lot of fun, a lot of sound effects added into the mix and of course all of it was sprinkled in with practical takeaways to help brands navigate the beautiful world of Amazon and E Commerce. So if, ah, you're responsible for growing a brand online and improving conversion and navigating retail media and figuring out AI, we've got something for you in this episode. So let's jump into my conversation with Scott Ashman of the Always Off Brand Podcast.

Scott Ashman: Well, hello there everybody. Welcome to Atlanta. Ah, the Digital Shelf Summer Summit Salsifies conference. We are live recording here from the Always Off Brand Studios on Podcast Row of one. Joining me today on the program, Adam, I don't even know how to say your last name.

Adam Janica: Janica for us Americans.

Scott Ashman: Okay, Janica. Adam Janica from Trilliant. Did I get that right?

Adam Janica: That's right. Trilliant Food and nutrition. If we want to go the long route.

Scott Ashman: Wow.

Adam Janica: Hey now.

Scott Ashman: And Apparently.

Matt Rosenfeld: Thank you.

Julie Speer: You're welcome.

Scott Ashman: Adam and I have known each other for a long time, and apparently you've listened to this program, uh, every once and again, so we appreciate that.

Adam Janica: Longtime listener, first time, uh, podcast or podcast guest.

Scott Ashman: Then we have, on the other side of the table, listener, we have Matt. Now, I don't. What's your last name?

Matt Rosenfeld: Rosenfeld.

Scott Ashman: Matt Rosenfeld. Okay. Crush. But now part of the Acadia Empire.

Matt Rosenfeld: Oh, yeah.

Scott Ashman: All right. I don't even know what your title is. See, I'm so bad at this.

Matt Rosenfeld: This is why I. I'm flexible on title. Uh, whatever we want it to be for the podcast. I. I'm. I'm good with it.

Scott Ashman: Excellent.

Matt Rosenfeld: Yeah, fine with me.

Julie Speer: We can determine it at the end

Matt Rosenfeld: of the day, figure out what it should be.

Scott Ashman: And that is a familiar voice, listener to anybody in our industry. The great, the one, the only, Julie Spear.

Julie Speer: Hello. Good to be back.

Adam Janica: And the crowd goes wild.

Scott Ashman: Now, for some reason, I got to have dinner with you people last night, which I'm still questioning why, but I'm going to take the dub. I'm going to take the dub. And what was amazing was for you guys and for, uh, me, I don't know. So Julie Speer and Kiri Masters were like one and two of the. The original bobsled, which then turned into Acadia. And to see them both in the same room was just. I got a kick out of it. It's just a kick. I mean, that's where it all began. All of this all began there.

Julie Speer: It's been a bit since we've been in the same room. It was a kick for me.

Scott Ashman: Was it?

Julie Speer: It was a kick.

Scott Ashman: Yeah. That was just. That was neat. Anyway, uh, so you guys just for all disclosures, right, uh, Adam, you are a client of Acadia?

Adam Janica: Yeah, that's right. They run quite a bit of our retail media.

Scott Ashman: Excellent. And. And how's it going, Julie? Matt.

Adam Janica: Oh, you're starting to start.

Matt Rosenfeld: You're trying to start the form early.

Julie Speer: NPS survey.

Scott Ashman: Hold on, let me mute those guys. Okay, go. Go ahead. No, I. You guys have been working together for a little bit here. I mean, it's a lot going on.

Adam Janica: Yeah, we started back in October of 25. Um, and they're, you know, helping navigate and drive the ship. Uh, we've got three brands, and two of them are just absolutely on fire, and a lot of it has to do with the expert hands on keys that Acadia brings. So it's been. It's been good.

Scott Ashman: Let's talk about the Big brand. Okay, the one that's on fuego right now. Is it protein?

Adam Janica: It's protein.

Scott Ashman: Adam, I want to talk protein with you.

Adam Janica: Well, if you want to get big and bulky, I'm not your guy. Um, but if you want a tasty beverage that also helps with, you know, your daily macros and your protein, Nuri is the brand.

Scott Ashman: Nuri. N U R R I.

Adam Janica: That's correct.

Scott Ashman: Is that correct?

Julie Speer: Yeah, it is very tasty.

Scott Ashman: Uh, Julie, unsolicited, by the way. Adam, um, said it told me the other day. She's like, it's actually really good.

Julie Speer: Yeah.

Scott Ashman: Yeah. You.

Adam Janica: You always know, like, when you work for a brand that the product's, like, not that great because it feels forced. Um, but everybody seems to have a Nuri at now, all of our tech stack partners and Acadia. And it's real. I mean, it tastes like melted ice cream. So it's pretty good.

Julie Speer: It's delish. No chalkiness.

Scott Ashman: Okay, no chalkiness. Well, maybe that'll get her this. I don't know.

Julie Speer: Damn.

Scott Ashman: That's that good. I mean, damn, is that, uh, good. All right, Matt, so you are just a young buck selling a couple wares on the old Amazon marketplace.

Matt Rosenfeld: Exactly.

Scott Ashman: You're like, you're like, hey, how do people do this? Maybe I could do it for others.

Matt Rosenfeld: Correct.

Scott Ashman: Is that the origin story?

Matt Rosenfeld: Well, so I started, um, going all the way back to the beginning. A buddy and I kind of.

Scott Ashman: You're like, seven. What do you mean, back to the beginning?

Matt Rosenfeld: I was like eight, to be fair. I think at least eight when this happened. But I, uh, wise beyond is years, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. A, uh, buddy and I fell into the ecosystem, um, and we started selling widgets, essentially, and became one of the best selling whipped cream dispensers and creme brulee torches on Amazon back in, like, 2016, 2017.

Scott Ashman: God, thank you for that. Oh, God, that is just delicious. I mean, all of the food talk right now.

Matt Rosenfeld: I was worried I wasn't going to get a sound effect that's out of the way.

Scott Ashman: I feel like we're.

Matt Rosenfeld: I've been in a good place.

Adam Janica: We're up on Julie, though.

Matt Rosenfeld: Yes. But then. But it was a. It was an interesting time because I feel like the mom and pop stuff, like the aggregator stuff hadn't really started yet. And so we. We ended up acquiring a couple of brands before that was cool to do. Bundled them together.

Scott Ashman: Wow.

Matt Rosenfeld: Those ended up getting sold to an aggregate. Got aggregated by an aggregator and worked in that space for a little bit. And then I left with the intent of actually starting more brands. But this was in, like, 22. I went to do that late. 22.

Scott Ashman: Okay.

Matt Rosenfeld: Uh, completely different ecosystem.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Matt Rosenfeld: Much harder to start private label FBA brands. All the economics were different, let alone tariffs. Cost of everything was a bit of a headwind at the time.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, we had. Yeah. 2018. We had some. Some tariffs.

Julie Speer: And this is 22.

Matt Rosenfeld: Sorry, I know.

Scott Ashman: I'm saying. Saying you had tariff. So 18. I went through the 18 tariff problem, but again, there's so many, I forget.

Matt Rosenfeld: It's like I lost container cost, shipping costs. Everything was just a headwind. And I was like, you know, it'd be great to have some income on the side. I'm going to help people run brands as an independent consultant. And then that started to grow more quickly than the brands themselves, and that snowballed into, uh, into starting Crush.

Scott Ashman: Fantastic. Uh, how'd you come up with that name?

Matt Rosenfeld: So the honest answer is that I was checking GoDaddy for good domains and crush. Amazon.com was just available. And I was like, that's it. That's the answer. And it aligned with, I think, our.

Adam Janica: How long did that take?

Scott Ashman: That's a great story, but sorry, Adam, you need to come up with a better lie. You need to come up with, like, a one that's not. That. Because that was too honest. I mean, it's lame, but it's good.

Matt Rosenfeld: We. If you want to hear the crazy part, we. We actually thought. So we started pizza tours, which I can get into later.

Scott Ashman: Famous pizza. I've heard.

Matt Rosenfeld: This is the third time I've heard

Scott Ashman: of the pizza tours.

Matt Rosenfeld: Well, the first. The first name for the. For the. Instead of Crush was going to be extra cheese.

Scott Ashman: Oh.

Matt Rosenfeld: Like, line with the pizza tours. Had the domain, had everything. And, like, we were the extra sauce that made things.

Julie Speer: Crushes.

Adam Janica: Yeah.

Matt Rosenfeld: Thank you. I think so, too. And then ended up going with Crush. And Crush was good because at the time and still today, obviously, we all say we want to crush it for you on Amazon. Yeah. So it aligned.

Scott Ashman: No, it's a great name. I'm totally giving you crap, but. And then you joined. When did you official. When did the acadia part. When did that all happen? The Roll family. A little over a year ago. Oh, hey, happy anniversary.

Matt Rosenfeld: April 25th.

Scott Ashman: Yeah. Oh, wow. Happy. There you go. Boom. Yes. And Julie Spirit.

Julie Speer: Your.

Scott Ashman: Your. Your title is. I don't think it would fit on the back of a jersey.

Julie Speer: A lot of words.

Scott Ashman: It's a lot going on there. It's very important you do a lot of things.

Julie Speer: That's what I lead with.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, yeah. What is it? Retail What?

Julie Speer: Head of Retail Marketplace Services.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, that's a good one.

Julie Speer: Yeah.

Adam Janica: You chose head instead of Supreme Chancellor just to shorten it up.

Julie Speer: I floated Supreme Chancellor. It got a little pushback, and so I just backed down.

Scott Ashman: You know what? That gets a bell.

Julie Speer: Oh, there. Now it is complete.

Scott Ashman: Okay, so. So Acadia is. Is among the. The bigger agencies, but you guys do full everything. You do a lot of stuff. It's not just Amazon Retail Media there. You got it across all retailers, and you guys have the whole. The whole, as I say, the whole mush book of the whole thing.

Julie Speer: We're one of. We're still an independent agency.

Scott Ashman: Yes.

Julie Speer: I think is quite unique in this day and age. Um, but yeah, we're consider. We consider ourselves a digital marketing platform. And so we have specialty with paid search and social, uh, CRO, creative social, organic social, um, analytics. Well, it's SEO, AEO, GEO, all the EOs, SEO. Yep. And then retail media marketplaces. So that's a lot together.

Scott Ashman: Good Lord. I'm actually exhausted right now. I thought little tiny Quick fire did a lot, but that's. That's incredible.

Julie Speer: Well, and the, the good part, the way that we're structured is that it's. Each team is deep with experts in their realm. It's no one trying to wear all the hats at once.

Scott Ashman: All right, so what have you guys done with Nuri and Adam? I mean, how. How do you. How did this thing go popping? You kind of told a little story last night. But, uh, on Amazon, how are you competing? I mean, it's an absolute, just bloodbath out there, man. It is not. It's not easy these days.

Adam Janica: It's a busy space. We got two main competitive, uh, brands that kind of own roughly 50%. But it is a wide open field with a lot of new entrants. Everybody wants to play in protein now. You want to slap protein on any product and it sells. I, um, mean, I. I think part of our success was just, um, we lucked into Nuri as a product category. It was really just a request from a buyer, and we happened to be positioned at the right stage to make it for them because they were short from a main competitor. And we put a. We developed a brand that and a formulation that worked. So it's really about, like, form, function and flav. Um, but it works and the consumer loves it. And then once we got on Amazon, we didn't initially drive to Amazon. It was probably Six months in the market before we got on Amazon.

Scott Ashman: Did you this, I know it's a very large retailer that I want to know. But, but then did you go across, did you get into full grocery and full uh, you know, I mean did you go outside and go to the main or major national.

Adam Janica: I'll say we took a unique path. Uh, we started with Costco, went to Sam's Walmart than Amazon and then filling in the rest of channel.

Scott Ashman: Right. That is, that is. But I actually, that's a top down. I, I, that's actually if you can get it.

Adam Janica: Yeah. Costco And SAM's are 60% of protein drink sales in the U.S. so they're, they're the biggies.

Scott Ashman: That's a juicy nugget.

Julie Speer: That's where I get my nuri is Costco.

Scott Ashman: That's a two bell right there. That's, that's a little stat. We like stats. Uh, so okay, so now you got that cranking. So but Amazon, that space, you just launch it, you had the traffic.

Julie Speer: Right.

Scott Ashman: You built up because Costco, I've had the fortunate years ago to sell Costco. You don't, you can't underestimate the power of that much product in the marketplace. It's just insane. It's a marketing spend beyond market. Right. It's just incredible what demand and consumer awareness that brings.

Adam Janica: Yeah. Ultimately I think your average Costco shopper doesn't go to Costco every week. Right. So they might bulk up, but they're, you know, my wife and I, we're like, who's doing Costco this month? I can't do it. I and my wife would be like, I'll take the bullet this time.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Adam Janica: So we needed to be in other channel places and partners. Um, so once we got on Amazon it wasn't a huge lift to, to harness that demand. We, and we just you know, did all the basic building blocks. You know, the PDPs were optimized before we ever launched and we did a lot of DSP and kind of brand awareness uh, on the platform, um, before we even like got product in the fcs.

Scott Ashman: Unbelievable. That's actually unique as well that you're, you're punching it. Right. I mean you're, you're building that before it's even in the products available.

Adam Janica: We try to put it like at least a. My, my statement's always I want 90 days. You want to launch a product on Amazon, give me 90 days to prep the team and do content and do iterations. I don't want to do it in 30 days and just see what happens.

Scott Ashman: All right, so what. We're here at the digital shelf. We're. It's the beginning of day two. A lot of breakouts today, but there are some great sessions yesterday. I don't know. Matt, is this first time caller for you here?

Matt Rosenfeld: First time caller?

Scott Ashman: What's any. Any observations, thoughts, takeaways?

Matt Rosenfeld: Well, unfortunately, yesterday I was on calls all day in my hotel room.

Scott Ashman: Oh, great.

Matt Rosenfeld: So I'm not yet moving. No.

Adam Janica: Productive conference.

Scott Ashman: Uh, correct.

Matt Rosenfeld: But very excited for the breakouts today.

Scott Ashman: Let me mark the time to edit that out. Let's see here. That's. This is. You're gonna get.

Matt Rosenfeld: I'll take the sound effect.

Scott Ashman: That's okay.

Julie Speer: AD are doing one of the breakouts.

Scott Ashman: I know you are. I know. What is that about again?

Julie Speer: It's about disruptor brands and how they marry the digital shelf and retail media together. It's an integrated.

Scott Ashman: Oh, my God.

Julie Speer: Tell us more silos. Because silos.

Scott Ashman: Silos equal sadness.

Julie Speer: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Ashman: Very sad. Like that sound effect. There's a little sadness. Okay, Matt, great conference for you.

Matt Rosenfeld: Very productive.

Scott Ashman: So could you. For the listener and possible 93 subscriber viewers who, uh, can't be here, what are they gonna give us a little. Little teaser? Do a little trailer of today's, uh, breakout? Julie, everyone was looking at you. Listener. Adam and Matt were like, julie, well, I mean, you're head of retail marketplace. Whatever.

Julie Speer: Supreme chancellor.

Scott Ashman: Supreme chancellor, yes. Queen, Whatever you want.

Julie Speer: Oh, no. So, uh, what it comes down to, to kind of set the table for the discussion is we all know there's a lot of money going into retail media. That's great. But often it's going in with one team managing it and the tactics. And then the afterthought is the digital shelf. It is the PDP. You don't have PDPs that are ready for the traffic that's being driven to them. And so all that money's going in and there's the high waste of spend. So I think when we look at disruptor brands, when we look at challenger brands that are new entrants to established or crowded categories, they do it differently. They don't look at it as, you know, E commerce is just this conversion channel. It's part of the overall strategy. And so they approach it as a system versus separate levers that just kind of run in parallel and hope it all works.

Scott Ashman: That is that.

Adam Janica: Can I. Can I add to that because.

Scott Ashman: Please do add.

Julie Speer: I want you to add a lot to it because I'm Planning on you

Scott Ashman: doing this is, by the way, just behind the curtain. This is their prep for their session.

Julie Speer: We haven't talked once about what we're doing today.

Matt Rosenfeld: No, but it's gonna be great.

Adam Janica: It's gonna be so amazing.

Scott Ashman: Matt's so in tune with this conference. After yesterday.

Matt Rosenfeld: I know what they're looking for.

Scott Ashman: He understands the audience. Adam, go ahead.

Adam Janica: No, I was just gonna say to, to that point, I think big CPG brands, big, uh, CPG companies, they're just so slow moving and they think, you know, if we put a, I'm not going to name names. If we put a product up on Amazon and show a picture of a 12 pack, that's enough to sell it and maybe it is for them. But if you want to be a, you know, a fast growing brand, like, like nerdy, I mean, we had to sell it, we had to overcome the reason or overcome objections, give reasons to believe, uh, we had to do all of it. And it couldn't be six weeks after launch. It had to be at launch.

Matt Rosenfeld: And I think a really interesting component is how you have to talk about that, I think today. So, like, what are the actual metrics that we care about when we're launching products and when you're talking to brands that are from a larger legacy background, getting buy in to say, like, these are the things that are actually important. Not necessarily the traditional vanity metrics that we could go after that you can report on, but the ones that are actually driving.

Scott Ashman: Do you want to disclose any of this? Again? I'm not here to get people in trouble, only myself in trouble. But do you want to disclose some of these metrics? You talked about that last night.

Matt Rosenfeld: A little bit, yeah. In terms of what I think is important. Yeah.

Scott Ashman: I mean, I like the holistic view because that is, that is such an incredible. I don't know, it's not a privilege, but it is kind of like you come into it fresh and then it's a holistic approach, which we know is the way that it's the dream. So what, what are some of the metrics that are important to you?

Matt Rosenfeld: Yeah. So I would say the engagement metrics we care about most are going to be click through rate conversion, rate and impression share.

Julie Speer: Right.

Matt Rosenfeld: And I think when we break down what those encompass, it's this idea of relevancy.

Scott Ashman: Right.

Matt Rosenfeld: So we don't need to go out and be everything to everyone on day one, but we need to be very relevant to our core audience and demonstrate that we're actually driving true engagement with those Customers and sending the right signals to the algorithm to improve our rank and improve the quality and efficiency of advertising early on. It's hard, right, because you don't have social proof. And so you're trying to overcome a lot of this with quality creative storytelling, really high quality listing, pdp, et cetera. But that hat you have to be thoughtful to compete in an ecosystem from day one as you're building into that landscape.

Scott Ashman: But Adam, I mean, I think if I'm sitting here listening to this, like, how did you differentiate? I mean, you're jumping into the busiest lake in the world. I mean, uh, you know, it's like the same subway rush hour. Like it's just jam packed. How did you rise above? I mean, was it pure money? You just like money bags, Adam, you're just like, hey, I don't care what it costs.

Adam Janica: Uh, not at all. But I think I know we're talking about it. I, uh, wish. No, I think it's. I have had this mantra my entire career, uh, working at startups, but it starts with a good product. If you don't have a good product, you might be able to artificially inflate your listings or you know, you know, boost it with ad spend, but at the end of the day it's going to get too expensive.

Julie Speer: Um, so we combat negative reviews, which is going to deplete that.

Scott Ashman: Okay. I know it starts a good product and I appreciate that. And you're absolutely super.

Adam Janica: It is.

Scott Ashman: You're right. Let's just be real here. Let's be real here. You are jumping into a category that is a freaking nightmare for many. Let's say I have a greatest product in the world, but I'm going into that space. Okay. I'm just, what, how did you build this and how did you grow this? Obviously you had the, you guys had organic, which is what we tell every brand. I don't care what size you are, you take a year to build organic, which you did in the sense of getting into these retailers, right?

Julie Speer: Mhm.

Scott Ashman: Then, then it makes your life so much easier to add. Paid on top. But I mean, how did you break through, man?

Adam Janica: I mean we went for, we went for number one.

Scott Ashman: We're.

Adam Janica: Our mindset is still we want to be number one or number two. Okay, I'm gonna go back to product.

Scott Ashman: Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Adam Janica: I know we've talked about this before. We started recording. A lot of our competitors are, you know, adding water or it's a little chalky. And so there's this like everybody that's Tried a protein drink and has like surveyed the field. You know, when they go to the store, they might try a new brand. They have had those bad experiences and they've had the good experiences. We have a product that it matches the good experience and we try to convey that in our PDP so that when that customer sees, oh, it tastes like ice cream, it's made with real milk, it's not thin and gloopy, or it's not thick and gloopy, that experience already translates because they have the nostalgia, the memory of like previous experiences. And then when they actually receive the product and it matches, then you're talking about a repeat break that actually happens. So we start seeing subscribe and save. So again, it starts with the basic, but we were able to translate that into visuals for the consumer.

Julie Speer: And I do want to say yes. Going for number one or number two. They already hit number one challenger brand on Instacart in 2025.

Scott Ashman: Okay. Again, this is, it's all momentum, right? It's all confluence. It all helps. It's all part of the big, the big soup, right, of getting there. Because a lot of people, a lot of brands, like, you know, it's just the hype cycle of like, oh, we have, you know, we got, we got, we went viral on Tik Tok before we ever launched. You know, I mean, which again, I'm kind of making fun of, but it's true. So I mean, a lot of people go and they have to go that route and then they, they, they leverage that. But it sounds like you kind of did a little bit differently.

Adam Janica: I mean, we did a lot of things differently. I'd say even just the format, we put it in a can and almost all protein drinks are in a plastic bottle. And then you have that. I don't know what the guess is, 15, 20% of consumers that care about sustainability, they saw an aluminum can and a good product and they're like, I'm gonna go for that one.

Scott Ashman: It's great.

Matt Rosenfeld: I also think it's an interesting buyer demographic today where like this space is changing so much. There's so much innovation. And I think component or a large percentage of those consumers are very interested in finding and identifying new products in the market.

Julie Speer: Mhm.

Matt Rosenfeld: And so I think even though it's really crowded, I think people are very excited to try new stuff, especially when it has like unique selling propositions that are going to speak to them. That's an exciting proposition.

Adam Janica: Yeah, I'm glad you said that because that's the One thing we intentionally went after was like we're not trying to be the gym bro, uh culture, uh, protein drink. We are accessible. We're not talking about, you know, we're not heavily talking about the function of it. It's there of course somebody wants to know how many grams of protein is in the drink, but ultimately it's fun, it tastes good and that's, that should be enough for most people.

Matt Rosenfeld: Totally.

Julie Speer: It's worked for me. Well, even though I do exude the gym bro culture.

Scott Ashman: Of course you do.

Julie Speer: Right.

Scott Ashman: I mean, you know what shame.

Adam Janica: Ah.

Scott Ashman: On me. Julie, you are the doctor of pdps and you share that title with Lauren Levak Gilbert.

Julie Speer: Yeah.

Scott Ashman: Two doctors of the pdp.

Julie Speer: How we initially bonded.

Scott Ashman: M. Yes. Uh, talk about the strategy without giving away anything of your Amazon play again. You talked about great product pdps. You guys made sure. Did you do testing on the pdps? Did you iterate a lot of different stuff? I mean what, what do you think is the most important part of that? That really conversion. Because I talk about all the times traffic and conversion.

Matt Rosenfeld: Right.

Scott Ashman: And Amazon is built on conversion. So how anything there or do you want to give away secrets?

Adam Janica: I, I, Hey, I was that one to me or okay.

Julie Speer: Yeah.

Scott Ashman: I don't know. I mean you kind of, you guide. Right? It's collaborative process.

Julie Speer: We support, we're active in the, the media management.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Julie Speer: It's part of our partners.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Adam Janica: But they are, they are inputs and

Julie Speer: feedback to the pdp.

Scott Ashman: Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Adam Janica: And they're also giving us creative feedback. We just ran a test with uh, it was actually a Costco Instacart ad, but we ran two different creatives and our creative team was like, we like this. It was a copy dispute and so we're like cool, let's just put it, let's, let's put the referee on it and see what happens. And you know, it ended up giving us the results we needed. And that all came from Acadia and it was pretty quick.

Matt Rosenfeld: But I was going to just build on one thing for the launch is I think when we talk about conversion on Amazon, it's interesting because I mean I fully agree with that and I think it is a huge conversion oriented channel. But what's interesting about the sequence in which you launched in strategic retailers and then Amazon coming after, I think you have a lot of touch points with customers that were very validating from a proof of product, et cetera point of view. So by the time you got on Amazon, I think that base of business was a huge amount of support.

Adam Janica: Absolutely. We probably ran, uh. I won't throw a number out.

Scott Ashman: No, don't. Please don't.

Adam Janica: Thousands, thousands of demos at Costco and at Sam's. So we got that feedback coming in and we're actually even reformulating, um, some products just to make sure that we can make it that much better.

Matt Rosenfeld: Yep.

Scott Ashman: Now everybody's just here like, well, oh, God, that's. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna go and start in Costco. Let me just make sure everybody understands kids. That's really hard to do and extraordinarily rare. And it's not. That is not easy. You guys are in a great position. Opportunity rang. You took advantage of it, but you just don't waltz in there, is my point.

Matt Rosenfeld: I do think more and more brands are trying to recreate that in a lower barrier to entry way.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Matt Rosenfeld: So we're working with a, uh, really interesting brand that's launching in the cat hydration space, which is something we can get into in terms of ultra competitive. It's very competitive today. Cats, apparently are very dehydrated. We're going to help solve the problem, but they are.

Scott Ashman: I'm going to need a timeout.

Matt Rosenfeld: It's. It's going to be the liquid IV for cats.

Julie Speer: You heard it here.

Matt Rosenfeld: It's here first. Breaking news. But their whole plan around launch is create a format that allows them to send out thousands of samples strategically to the market without needing to do it in person at a retailer, etc. But try to accomplish a similar outcome, but do it more grassroots that way. Identify all of them, get them into the funnel, manage it in house, and then distribute them, obviously via mail. Um, but drive that same, at least ground level of awareness.

Adam Janica: Yeah, you almost need a trial strategy more than you need a retail go to market strategy.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, the trial thing is incredible.

Matt Rosenfeld: I agree.

Scott Ashman: Okay, let me switch to media. And where are we today? Uh, does anybody want to take a crack at kind of a state of union of Amazon ads? I'm. I have been very loud and very bullish. I think they're. The road to 100 billion is like not far away. They grow 20 to 24 every single quarter. They're grabbing inventory like nobody's business. Uh, just now it's the thing now they're. They're going to license out Duke basketball, some. Some ACC basketball. They're going hard into live sports, which is the number one ad revenue on, on any screen. Is there anything. You know, you guys are getting pushed all the time. Adam, you're getting, aren't you getting requests all the time from Amazon ads for more money to do more things?

Adam Janica: Uh, yeah, I think they're uh, they're a little easier on us because we're in growth mode. So I mean there is of course a push, there's always a sales.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, that's their job. I mean that's their job.

Adam Janica: Yeah, but they do a pretty good job of explaining where we should be at our life cycle. Um, but yeah, I think they're the bet you want to be making right now.

Scott Ashman: Now what do you guys think? Again, you work across many different clients categories, huge media budgets all over the board. Where do you think we are?

Julie Speer: I think we're at a stage where more and more money and acceptance of moving up the funnel. Leveraging Amazon DSP is more the norm than it was even just a year ago.

Scott Ashman: Oh really?

Julie Speer: The amount that we would have to kind of convince for the opportunity that it's don't just do retargeting with dsp. Like there's real opportunity with audiences going off, off platform. We used to have to beat the drum pretty hard for that. But I think there's more and more brand dollars are coming into the mix rather than just like sales and that's pushing more and more up the funnel. With adsp, I don't think it's still bottom of funnel for conversion. It's there, but I think the real opportunity and the focus is what about

Scott Ashman: connected TV and all again the inventory with Netflix and now you can buy media. I mean they're becoming one. I mean Trade Desk honestly has got, you know, Amazon's becoming a problem because they're getting more inventory.

Julie Speer: They're huge, huge. Coming up against Trade Desk, your dollar goes further, like full stop. Just look at the cost.

Scott Ashman: Well still even the highest awareness and funnel, it's still a collapsed funnel in the meaning that it's a closed loop. Right. They can tell you where you started and where the end was. Mhm. In theory. Right. I mean I don't believe half the numbers I read, but that's me. That's just a personal problem. But Matt, what do you.

Matt Rosenfeld: Yeah, I was going to say I think what's really interesting for us is at least a lot of the brands we're working with are coming to us now. Like the awareness of what Amazon can offer has grown dramatically in the last, I would say six to 12 months. And the, the view of the world is still the vast majority of the brands are spending at least that we're working on. Are Spending the majority of their budget on Meta. Meta is being used more and more as a tax. Go ahead.

Julie Speer: I would just say it's important to qualify kind of the profile of these brands versus I think when I talk about the profile, the brands I'm referring to. Totally the more established.

Matt Rosenfeld: Totally the brands. The brands I'm referring to are more emerging. Disruptor D2C first yes.

Scott Ashman: And where they can't get off the Meta. They can't needle. Uh, they really can't.

Matt Rosenfeld: And I think what they're trying to understand now is understanding dsp, understanding the audience is amc. What Amazon can offer is are we able to acquire customers outside of the Amazon ecosystem, leveraging their network for less than or equal to what we can acquire a customer for on Meta. And if the answer is yes, which it has been for a number of brands, the unlock in terms of dollars that are going to flow into Amazon is going to be huge.

Julie Speer: And it's almost looking at it through the life cycle view. We have the wave where it is meta and then you reach a certain point of diminishing return or what have you. And how do you diversify your strategy?

Matt Rosenfeld: Correct.

Scott Ashman: Adam, do you agree with all these things?

Adam Janica: Uh, I just want to kind of point out that you mentioned sports and I think that, that it got my, my ears perked up. But that's been a moat for like linear, more traditional media and I think Amazon is intention pulling that in because they know if they can take sports high attention types uh, of broadcasts that's, that's their way of kind of pushing, pushing linear further and further out of.

Scott Ashman: They're a nice. They have property, they own property. 19 rights holders. They are a holder for 19 leagues and now teen and a half because this ACC thing is kind of like percolating. I've been waiting for them to go into college sports. I'm like, I thought once the regional. I don't know, that's a whole nother discussion. But I thought they'd go harder into college and maybe they are. Okay. When you guys discuss the advertising performance. Okay, I'm doing a thing later today about measurement and a debate about measurement. What is the top of the call? What is the top of the conversation is just do you start at ROAS and then go. I mean how does this work for you guys that we're. Wherever you have to report out? Like there's everybody's got somebody to talk to. How does this. What are the metrics that you guys use?

Adam Janica: Yeah, I think everybody understands Roas. So it does always Feel like we, we end up talking about roas or impressions or click through rates. Um, the, the areas that I get pressure on and a lot of inquiry from finance especially is the incrementality of it. So to go back to the buzzword of last year versus AI.

Scott Ashman: Ah, yes.

Adam Janica: Uh, you know, answering for that, especially when we're talking about a small, a much newer brand. We have another brand, Dutch Bros. Which we brought into CPG just in January. Um, wonderful coffee company.

Scott Ashman: Yeah. Out of Oregon.

Adam Janica: You know, they're already asking for incrementality measurement and it's been four months so you know, the, the train never stops.

Scott Ashman: So how do you guys report out on that? There's a lot of debate about incrementality and where, how do you actually measure that properly? Because again, I, I don't think attribution. I think there's a lot of people we're getting better at attribution distribution, but I think it's still, I call it something else. But anyway, I think there, there is

Matt Rosenfeld: a reasonably good way to do it. In Amazon today, we leverage a lot of data from brand analytics and we're looking at how much lift are we getting in the funnel from branded versus non brand keywords. And so the key reporting metrics we talk about a lot is segmenting or negating or removing all brand from what we're talking about and looking at the market category, ecosystem, key terms, key competitors and how much room we're gaining. And we really talk about it from a click share and purchase share point of view. So like impressions are well and good, but are we getting clicks, are we getting conversions and which are the. Where, where is that taking place?

Scott Ashman: Do you think there's something around. We're, we're, we're tossing this around about like search intent because brand analytics, again, shout out them, they've actually opened up a lot to us. So we're looking at different like brand funnels and non brand and category funnels of search intent.

Adam Janica: Yeah.

Scott Ashman: Do you think this is something that is relevant? I mean we were just teeny tiny. I don't have a lot of like, oh my God, we changed this and it's opened up the world. It's killing it. You know.

Matt Rosenfeld: So I would say 100%. Yes. Okay. M. I would say give myself a bell.

Julie Speer: From a, uh, he makes bold statements. We brought him on for the hyperbole.

Adam Janica: Yeah.

Matt Rosenfeld: No, but from a, from a data value. I firmly believe that brand analytics is the single most important data source we use to qualify success because it's One of the only data sources that gives you aggregated paid and organic.

Scott Ashman: Yes.

Matt Rosenfeld: Right. So you can see the entire funnel and you're. It's very easy to see when we change strategy, when we change a PDP image, when we change a title, when we run a promotion, what did it do to different parts of the funnel?

Scott Ashman: Adam, are you deep into this? Are you deep in the calls on your. On your band analytics and not, uh,

Adam Janica: on the brand analytics? Most of our. When we're looking at things, similar metrics, uh, we're using tech stack, partner stack, line.

Scott Ashman: Yes.

Matt Rosenfeld: Okay.

Adam Janica: Um, but it gives us similar visibility.

Scott Ashman: See, for us small folk, you know, us, the littles out here, like, I can't afford these fancy softwares to get, like, everybody wants to know where. What's my category? Share and everything. I gotta. I gotta look at Brandon. I gotta, like, piece together seven different little, you know, pop up free things to figure it out. Uh, so it's shout out you, nice job out of you.

Adam Janica: I mean, it's great having a visual and then saying, okay, this is when we made that one channel decision that, you know, half the team said we shouldn't do.

Scott Ashman: Exactly.

Adam Janica: And you just highlight it. Yeah, those. Those are fun conversations.

Scott Ashman: You get excited to go in the office that morning, don't you?

Adam Janica: No. Proving people wrong publicly is never a good play.

Scott Ashman: I told you so. It's. I told you so. Adam, welcome in. Uh, not at all. Uh, okay, so are. Are you gonna do connected television? Are you gonna do again OLV online video? Which I know you do, and I know who they're on. The Acadia team is like Mr. Olv,

Julie Speer: Mr. Ras Walker Ross. O L D Ross.

Scott Ashman: He is. He should is. I hope he's got a title change because that should be his mantra.

Julie Speer: Yeah.

Scott Ashman: So are you seeing. And also I love the. The commoditization of creative and being able to. To produce more creative that is brand ready. That is, quote, television ready on online video. So is this. Is this what you guys are all hyped up? Uh, other than AI, are you guys excited about this whole thing?

Julie Speer: Yes.

Scott Ashman: I mean, yes. Great answer, Julie. You should host your own, uh, podcast called E Commerce Brain Trusting it.

Julie Speer: I'm considering it.

Scott Ashman: And she's got a real microphone and headphones.

Julie Speer: Today we got almost through this whole episode without commentary on my podcast.

Scott Ashman: Just such a.

Julie Speer: Okay, if I could take a little heat off of Matt.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, I know.

Matt Rosenfeld: I appreciate it.

Julie Speer: Yeah.

Scott Ashman: I'm so sorry. I apologize to everybody. Okay, so what's next? What are the things of today? Um, Adam, you've been actually going to things. Let's, let's pub. The. The dss. Have you, have you been in meetings all day? Not.

Adam Janica: Uh, I went to three sessions yesterday, so. Holy.

Scott Ashman: You gotta get a bell for that.

Adam Janica: I mean, what's, what I'm excited about obviously is, is moving our organization, um, towards the agentic and the AEO geo space. We haven't really done that very well, but you know, we just became a brand. You know, we're still a little baby brand. Yeah, yeah, in a way in terms of how we're organizing organizationally set up. So uh, we have a lot of work to do.

Scott Ashman: Do you have any thoughts, uh, not to again give away your whole thing, but how do you start that? I mean it depends on the organization size, but how do you start? Where do you start first? Right. Where do you prioritize that work? And Akada, you guys are doing a ton of work on this. I mean, God, I don't know. Adam?

Matt Rosenfeld: Julie?

Scott Ashman: Anyone?

Julie Speer: I mean, I don't know if it's because of my love of pd.

Scott Ashman: Let's ask the guy serving coffee, maybe he has an opinion.

Julie Speer: I mean, I think it starts with readiness of the PDPs. Like you have to if you're going to invest dollars in media. So the where, where we start then is we back it up to what are our processes, what do we know the playbooks to be that actually improve performance and drive results. And so we, we're basing our AI build outs around our proven processes. It's pretty, it's pretty freaking exciting. Like almost get giddy about it.

Scott Ashman: I can tell.

Adam Janica: Listen, she is just, I mean Lauren was just covering it in the opening remarks this morning. But uh, my plan is to hopefully. We've already had initial conversations with leadership and different functional groups and you got to bring leadership on board. They have to be bought in whether it be legal, marketing, sales, um, so and then next step is like educating and working with brand and creative and E Comm. Kind of getting all of our functional teams together and aligned on what that vision looks like and how we're going to execute it.

Julie Speer: Well, and I think this is where building building skills and building agents, we're able to capture the impact one, capture the need. Where are we missing the mark? Where are we not optimized for SEO? Where are we not optimized for Rufus? We can show that much more clearly and what the impact will be. And then we can also illustrate much more clearly what the impact is when the changes are made. Like the level it's not just a time savings, but the level of, like, insight and quality and how we can help with that education, it's. It's just grown exponentially.

Scott Ashman: And is it, Is it more conversational text in the bullet points in the back end? I mean, again, I get asked this all the time. I mean, how do you actually execute this? Because, I mean, Rufus is Rufus, and on the phone that he's Rufus, you can't ignore him because he's everywhere. He's like, he, She. I don't know. You know, whatever. Rufus is like, you can't. It's hard to avoid.

Matt Rosenfeld: It's my point.

Julie Speer: Yeah.

Scott Ashman: So these contextual conversation, this question and answer. I get asked this. Should we put this in the title? How do you do it in the title? Should you do that? You know, I'm saying, do you have any guidance, uh, out there today where we're at? Because I, to be fair, I'm still like, indeed. I don't know.

Julie Speer: People are like, that's your shtick.

Scott Ashman: That is my shtick. I'm against everything. Yeah.

Julie Speer: I think the starting point. And then I'd be interested in your take too, Matt. I think the starting point is understand what your customers care about. Do the research to understand not just your product. And what, when you're analyzing the pdp, what are customers saying? Yada yada. Yes, do that. But go more broadly in the category. Who are your customers and what are they asking about? What are they seeing in the reviews? What matters to them? If you're not clear on that, you can put all the stuff you want on the images and in the bullet points and what have you, and it's not going to matter. Understand the customer.

Scott Ashman: Okay, Matt or Adam. Uh, go ahead, because I have another. Just a second clarification.

Matt Rosenfeld: I was going to say building on both AI, uh, use cases, skills, agents, et cetera, and then figuring out how to leverage that to optimize for Rufus. There is so much data that Amazon provides, whether it's return reports, voice of the customer, top search terms, brand analytics. There's so much data. And the challenge we've had in the past is how do you use it? Right. It's so disparate. It's all different reports. How can we see what's actually happening? And so I think what we're trying to build into and seeing really good results with is figuring out creating skills around optimizing. Where are we pulling this data and what can we take away from it in terms of intent, behind queries. And when you get to that data, you can start answering those questions pretty directly in easily right within your bullet points, within your PDP content, etc, without it being like we are the best for why. Yeah, right. So you can get a bit more hydration.

Adam Janica: Give that man, that was beautiful.

Matt Rosenfeld: Okay, thank you.

Scott Ashman: Oh wait, hold on. I lost the day.

Matt Rosenfeld: Are we keeping track of number of dings? Because I feel like you are.

Julie Speer: I think you're keeping track.

Scott Ashman: Yeah. I'm gonna give you this. Omg uh, that's, that's a throwback.

Matt Rosenfeld: Thank you.

Julie Speer: He's making up for so so and

Scott Ashman: I'll get you guys out of here on this. But is, is it changing? So again for many years it's like okay, highest indexing, we uh, it search term. Right. We make sure that's in the title and then if there's seasonal things we change that or what have you. Then we go down to bullet, then we go to product. There was a hierarchy and then back end. Right. I mean there's a hierarchy of where things went and how they went and what to do. Is this changed? Is it changed? Is it already changed?

Matt Rosenfeld: Uh, I think so. And I think you might agree with this given it's maybe a little bit of a contra intake. But, but what we, what I see in the, in the space really is it comes down to conversion.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Julie Speer: Right.

Matt Rosenfeld: Like I think we have to assume that Amazon and the algorithm, it's very intelligent. You don't necessarily need to give it every single query that's going to be relevant to your product. Amazon knows your basket of competitors and they're looking at across that basket of competitors. How does your click through rate and conversion rate compare to the average? If you are better than that market average, Amazon is going to give you an opportunity to show that across the entirety of the keyword base that's relevant. Instead of saying back in the day all I want to be is number one whipped cream dispenser. That doesn't need to be your sole goal. It needs to be relevancy and conversion for the consumer. And if you can demonstrate that consistently, Amazon will give you the opportunity to do it across a broader swath of keywords.

Julie Speer: You're getting another sound effect.

Adam Janica: I think he's taken the lead.

Julie Speer: I know, I think he has. I'm just going to take my headphones off.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, seriously. But I, I maybe again call me out. Honestly, I, I 40 of the algorithm is conversion and sales in the last 180 days. So how you get to convert. I am obsessed with conversion. Like I, if I Go down a half a per, you know, 0.1%. I'm like, I need to understand, depending on the time plan, like, okay, what's, what's going on, if traffic is the same or whatever. I'm kind of obsessed by that because I understand the machine lives and breathes with that. Am I wrong? Am I old? Should I just change my ways?

Julie Speer: Are we answering those individually?

Scott Ashman: I don't know. Just, you know, I'm trying to get coaching here. Coach me up, Julie.

Julie Speer: No. Yes.

Scott Ashman: Anybody coach the old kid up.

Matt Rosenfeld: Uh, I would say I agree with you on conversion. We're very focused on it. I think it's more about being disciplined of where and why you're converting and less so on the actual conversion rate of the listing as a whole. Like that's really important. But it's also very important to understand where you're converting and then being disciplined to say when we launch. When you launch. Nuri, maybe we're not bidding on protein drink.

Scott Ashman: Mhm.

Matt Rosenfeld: Right. Because it's too competitive at the time when we're launching and it's going to bring down our conversion rate. So I think a lot of it comes down to looking at the data, being disciplined, investing in where conversion rate is actually indicating that you're doing quite well and building into that over time.

Julie Speer: It goes to the relevance and just like a hyper focus of where are you going to place your bets, where are you going to play?

Matt Rosenfeld: Correct.

Scott Ashman: And I'll, uh, again, I said we get you out of here. But Adam, uh, one thing that struck me that in the conversations we've had, which I think is, I mean, I can't say it enough, is patience. You've talked about how you understand how the system works. Right. So you have to internally just make sure that everybody's like not panicking. There's patience. This takes time. Right. You got to let the machine do what the machine does.

Adam Janica: Yeah. I think when you're looking at any of the metrics, whether it be advertising or just direct sales, I mean, one week does not a trend make. So yeah, that, that's a hard one because you, you see us a spike or you see a downgrade, a D rate and you're like, oh my God, I gotta answer this. Um, but if nothing fundamentally has changed, sometimes it's just the ghost in the machine.

Matt Rosenfeld: Am I also.

Scott Ashman: God, I keep coming up with stuff that I'm m supposed to end this program. Is Prime Day a big deal? Where are we on Prime Day? Again? I have a contrarian, like it just depends because My brands aren't huge and we don't really do a big thing for Prime Day. I'm kind of like either go all in on Prime Day, like a serious discount, or you just ride the wave. Where. Where are you guys? I don't know. Julie, where are you? I mean, still Prime Day, four days, June.

Julie Speer: Yeah. Prime Day is a big deal. Uh, ultimately, but I think that the way that you approach it is definitely brand category specific. So we don't have a one size fits all for how we're approaching it. We have to understand what's the goal and the need of the brand and how we'll approach Prime Day is based on that. So I can't give a blanket answer. It is important.

Scott Ashman: Okay. We're all in on it. Matt, do you think it's just like it's still as big as it always ever was?

Matt Rosenfeld: Absolutely. I think it's. It is hugely important and I think there are a lot of different ways in which you can leverage it, but we on average see a very positive result and a improvement in metrics coming out of it that maintain. So like the halo you get and the reset in terms of where you are.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Matt Rosenfeld: Typically is very positive.

Julie Speer: And obviously it's the biggest return when it's the brands that are investing the most in like the promos and all of that.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Julie Speer: But we also see, we see the uptick in the halo across the board.

Scott Ashman: Yes, I agree. I. I'm with you. Adam, where are you on Prime Day?

Adam Janica: Uh, I'm high on pulling it forward to June.

Matt Rosenfeld: Are you? Why.

Scott Ashman: Why do you think they did that? Does anybody have any theories of why they did?

Adam Janica: I think they saw, at least from my. My perception is that they saw softness with the consumer. You know, given the July to October to PBDD prime big deal days.

Scott Ashman: Yeah.

Adam Janica: Um, and so they wanted to give a little bit of, uh, I guess a refresh of consumers wallets between those two big events. Um, supply chain issues also probably warehouse issues come, uh, into play there. I don't love that it's a four day event. I thought. I didn't think it the last two days were that impactful. Last year we just saw like a really great day one and then a slow downgrade, um, regardless of ad spend.

Scott Ashman: I. I forgot to ask you, are you doing this on vendor or in seller?

Adam Janica: Uh, we're 1p.

Scott Ashman: You're 1p.

Matt Rosenfeld: Yeah. Okay.

Scott Ashman: I thought that. I just didn't clarify that.

Julie Speer: We have Jordan on our team who's very orderly.

Scott Ashman: Yes.

Julie Speer: Has. His hypothesis is now we're moving to a tent pole event a quarter. So if we play that out, does that mean prime big deal days? October will be end of September.

Scott Ashman: Y. So I wouldn't be surprised.

Julie Speer: I wouldn't. And it would from, like, an organization standpoint. That sounds great. Let's put a little. Put a little in Q3.

Scott Ashman: Well, the reality is, what's amazing is that that shifts the market. The entire market will shift to end of June or end of September. I mean, the entire market will. The retailer. They drive the bus on this.

Julie Speer: Well, so there's a lot of hypothesis is that they moved it to June to differentiate from the others. And it's like they're all gonna follow.

Scott Ashman: Yeah, exactly.

Julie Speer: You're not getting away from them.

Scott Ashman: Um, like, exactly.

Julie Speer: Uh, I don't know. And the cat was out of the bag so long ago. So everyone.

Adam Janica: Walmart, as big as they are, are gonna follow suit.

Scott Ashman: Exactly. And it's a. The cat's out of the bag and it's a hydrating cat.

Julie Speer: It is a high.

Matt Rosenfeld: Extremely high.

Julie Speer: What we end on.

Scott Ashman: I think that's a good place to end it. Adam. Matt. Julie, thank you for coming in. I know it's early morning on the second day. This is always a ple. Great to meet you, Matt. Again, I apologize for all the crap I gave you. Adam, it's good to hang out with you, man.

Adam Janica: Good to see you again.

Scott Ashman: It's been fun. We've kind of just super fun since

Adam Janica: that coffee shop in LA, what, 10 years ago?

Scott Ashman: I guess I bear. I don't. I'm not burdened by memory, but

Julie Speer: I like that spin on it.

Scott Ashman: Yes. Uh, okay, everybody. The reason I get to do these things and everything, I wrap it every. Because people matter. All right? And this is just so awesome. Matt, you're new into my people now. You're one of the peeps. Your peeps, Julie, always the number one.

Matt Rosenfeld: Thank you.

Scott Ashman: Absolute queen. Thank you, doctor. The original doctor of PPPs.

Julie Speer: I did pay him to say that.

Scott Ashman: We'll have more Always Off Brand from Atlanta after this. Bye.

Matt Rosenfeld: Bye.

Julie Speer: Hey there. This is Hailey from Quickfire and they want me to read this so you know what this podcast is part of and how to find out more if you want. Always Off Brand is a production of Quickfire, LLC and a part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast Network. For more information, go to quickfirenow.

Matt Rosenfeld: Com.

Julie Speer: Have a good one and thanks for listening.