106: Wine, Reimagined: Inside the Rise of Non-Alcoholic Wine with Giesen

Speaker A: Foreign. Hey, everyone.

Speaker B: Welcome to E Drink Social. My name is Courtney Sandora, and throughout this podcast series, you'll be hearing from myself and the Go Social team. Go Social is a PR and social media marketing firm with offices in Denver, Colorado and Louisville, Kentucky. We'll be discussing social media trends and influencer best practices in the food and beverage landscape. If you have any questions and want to reach out, you can find us on, um, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, the GoSocial. Or you can visit our website at Goforth Be Social.com

Speaker A: we're talking about the world of NA wine today, and we're honored to have Mary Ferraro, the VP of commercial in the US For Giessen Wines, which is the number one selling premium NA Wine, which is pretty exciting. Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker C: Thank you, Courtney. I'm happy to be here. This is great.

Speaker A: Well, I guess let's talk about you and your background. Um, how did you get into the world of wine and eventually Giessen?

Speaker C: This is a love story. Um, I joke that much similar to Giessen, when everyone else zigs, I zag. And in business school, in undergrad, all my colleagues and friends went to Wall Street. They went to investment banking and consulting and accounting. And while my business brain could admire that, I wanted to use my career to connect people. And there was something so pure about consumer products in general. I didn't really know that wine was going to be the passion and love story that it turned out to be for me. But what I could understand is with consumer products, you are filling a need. You are providing opportunities for celebration, enjoyment, nourishment, and the confluence of that need, state and a product, and where that product might be purchased. In a grocery store shelf, wherever that might be. That was so fascinating to me. And so, at a career fair my senior year of college, um, I didn't go up to Deloitte or any of these other big firms, but instead saw the E and J. Gallo Winery booth, and my love affair started there. So the first. Yeah, the first, um, almost decade of my career was spent with the Gallo Winery in various capacities all over the country and solidifying this passion for wine. And the second part of your question, eventually, Giessen. Throughout the last. Gosh, uh, it's been 25 years. Most of my career has been in and around wine. I worked a little bit in craft beer, worked in tech for a few years for a mobile app that supported consumer product goods companies and their marketing endeavors. Um, but through a health journey crisis, I went through cancer seven years ago through just my own well being. And as we all get older, realized I can't really drink as much as I'd like to or used to and feel great, or I've trained for a few marathons and other things and always felt, wow, there's, there's probably a different way I could be approaching this. And so to be very candid, in the last three to four years I'd been stalking Giesen and I had watched them from afar. I had been working in a similar importer. We shared an importer. So I knew what they were doing. I'd met the team and was just in awe of how they had innovated in such an organic way. And by organic, I don't mean literally organic. While we do have organic products, I mean seeing a true need in themselves in the marketplace and with sheer will and integrity, figuring out how to produce something that replicates that lovely wine experience we all love. And so last year I was fortunate enough to meet the team and um, we came together with an opportunity here in the US and here I am. So it's a dream.

Speaker A: You got the job?

Speaker C: I got the job. The stocking paid off and because I was drinking non elk wine, I had the focus to get the job.

Speaker A: There you go. Yes. Give us an overview of Giessen. Do they have ah, alcohol wine as well? And how did they get into the non alcohol?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's such a fascinating story. They, it's three brothers, the Giessen brothers that started this in uh, 1981 was the first vintage. They're from Germany as the name might suggest. They moved to the Marlborough region and actually they first started in Canterbury, Christchurch area and they had a background in distilling and brewing. And they said to their youngest brother who stayed behind in Germany, said, go figure out winemaking. We actually think this is going to thrive. And so you've got to remember compared to other wine growing regions around the world that we think of even here at home In Napa, Sonoma, California, Marlboro is only about 50 years old as a wine growing region. So they were one of the first families of the first innovators. For a while they had the southernmost wine growing, um, estate, or estate, rather not wine growing region, estate in the world. And so they started producing many varietals, Sauvignon Blanc, obviously we know is thrives in this region. And so the start was there and they were producing estate, uh, wines, beautiful single vineyard wines. We have this lovely Claven vineyard which were known for globally and but in around 2019, the winemakers did a challenge and said, all right, we're going to go Drive for 30 days. And it was the winemakers especially that said, we're used to drinking wine every day, whether that be for work and in tastings or after work, having a glass of Sauvignon Blanc. And they said, we can't find anything we like. So lo and behold, they said, uh, well, well, let's make it. We're winemakers, we're smart people, we're. It's a very scrappy culture. It's a beautiful culture in New Zealand. It's hustle, ingenuity, and this can do attitude that I'm obsessed with. So this goes back to why I stalked them. I loved that value alignment. And lo and behold, they did. And they figured out through a lot of trial and error, but through this spinning cone technology, which we can speak to in more detail, they figured out they could preserve the integrity of our estate wine, preserve the aroma, produce a product that does not have alcohol and still have that experience at the end of the day, which was what was really missing for them, the end of the day, a glass of wine or in breaking bread and a meal and having that opportunity with food. And so that started, um, in 2019. In 2020, the first non alk wine came to the U.S. that's the Giesen 0 Sauvignon Blanc that I'm drinking right now. Um, and then it exploded from there. We couldn't keep up with the demand. And we now have nine different varietals, 11 SKUs in the non elk range. But to answer your question, yes, we have the full strength estate wines, we have the non Elk. And as a byproduct, because of what we learned and the ingenuity and innovation, we actually, through the technology, which I can go into, we also produce a gin and, um, do some other cool things with that ethanol. So pretty expansive portfolio. Yeah, really cool.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, I was going to say, I've seen that you all have won multiple awards and when you read about your brands, people definitely tell, like, the flavor is great. So I guess, how do you, how do you keep it while the alcohol.

Speaker C: It's pretty incredible. The process starts, ah, first and foremost, the reason that this quality and we stand out is we start with our estate fruit. And so going back to this wine growing history, when you start with a good product, the outcome, even if you extract something material like alcohol, is going to be better. And that's really important to us and our ethos and Everything we do. So we start with, in this case, the Sauvignon Blanc I'm drinking. We start with our Estate Sauvignon Blanc. We then have invested very heavily in spinning cones and a big spinning cone at that in, um, in Marlboro. And what happens is, as you feed, gravity, feed the Estate Sauvignon Blanc through it is these plates, it's a spinning cone. And, and what happens is the pure wine is separated from the ethanol and alcohol, but also the aroma. The aroma actually comes out in a liquid form, but actually is separated into three parts. And what's cool about this is this is technology, especially with the aroma preservation that's used in perfume, like high end boutique perfume, uh, in coffee. And so what's special then the magic, if you will, is we blend back together the pure wine base and the aroma. So we keep the aroma. So that ethanol, we set it aside. But you think about the first thing you do when you're enjoying a glass of wine, you stick your nose in there and ah, in New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc especially, it's so iconic. That grapefruit, those beautiful tropical fruits, that herbaceousness, so crisp and acidic in the, the mouth, but it's that nose that really starts you salivating. So that's a, uh, really key piece of it. And with that ethanol, then I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and like, pretend you're gonna ask the question about the ethanol. What we do with it, we don't waste it. We have this beautiful, pure, pristine Marlboro New Zealand ethanol. So we double distill it, we add Macedonia juniper berries, and we've created this boutique craft gin. So we have gin. It's so lovely, it's decadent. Oh, it's so clean and it's incredible. And then there's still quite a bit of ethanol left over. Wait for it. We are able to use that ethanol and turn it into biofuel to fuel then the production facility and the spinning column that extracts alcohol. So Sauvignon Blanc is actually fueling the winery and mitigated our need for petroleum. It's wild. Yeah, it's.

Speaker A: So we, we worked with somebody who was more on the whiskey side and she was doing a perfume line with that. Uh, have you thought about doing a wine perfume line or.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh, I want this is. This sounds right up my alley. Well, and because, you know what could be funny is I love this, like, where this conversation is going to. It's, it's kind of forbidden in wine circles. To wear perfume or cologne because you don't want to mess with the integrity of the evaluation of wine and the aroma and notes and everything. But I love perfume, so how cool could that be to say, hey, we've got this beautiful aroma. Let's bottle this, let's create something of it? Uh, no, but I love this idea.

Speaker A: Next gallon.

Speaker C: Great marketer. Next. I love this idea.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, okay, so, uh, you have a large varietals, including sparkling. Yes.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: When you take the non alcohol, I mean, do certain varietals do better with that?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or does it not matter? Can you just blend the, the flavor?

Speaker C: You know, it's. This is really interesting. This. So part of what I said is, is really foundational, and that is starting with good estate wine. And you quickly learn, as with anything, if I think the temptation and what we've seen in some cases is, hey, let's use some extra bulk juice or extra, um, inventory we have, and let's use that after the fact to create a non elk wine. So I think there, that could be a disadvantage to any of these varietals. And so I want to make sure to point out if you're starting with a really good wine, no matter the varietal, you have a better chance. What I will say is two things from a consumer perspective and feedback. When you take a sip of wine that is de alcoholized, especially if you haven't tried them, there is, um, this sparkling and effervescence of a little carbonation does help enhance the mouthfeel. So when you remove alcohol, you can imagine that is a big component of any wine. It, it helps carry the flavor across your palate. It adds body, it adds sugar. So when you remove that right out of the gates, the wine is out of balance. And so to be able to get it back in balance and replicate more of that mouthfeel, certainly carbonation helps. Um, the white wines are really, uh, really show well. So of our range of wines, we have our Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, Riesling, Pinot Grigio, Rose, sparkling Brut, but only one red. And so that is, um, you know, the red is really challenging. It's very delicate. Those are typically more high alcohol. Um, we have in New Zealand, we don't grow a lot of Cabernet. It's a very cool climate for Cabernet. So our red blend is primarily Merlot. We've tried with Pinot Noir. It's difficult. It's. It's very delicate. And so to answer your question from A winemaking and production standpoint it is the reds are more challenging. Um, and also from a consumer especially as is experiencing these and what you um, what your palate might experience, especially if you're used to drinking wine. Carbonation is usually a good entry point. But um, I'm pretty good fan of the Sauvignon Blanc here right now. Still in Savvy Bay. It's doing me right at 3:45 in the afternoon.

Speaker A: Well, um, I don't know if you've ever been to the Great American Beer Fest because I know you're.

Speaker C: Oh, I ah, have, yes. I used to work it, yes.

Speaker A: Oh cool. So yeah, I was, I was first time this year and I was really surprised by the amount of non elk beer trying those. I mean and I can say some were somehow better than others. Um, but yeah. So what do you and the wine category specifically face with the consumer that maybe is more challenging or maybe there's maybe it's easier, I don't know than like a non elk beer. Non elk spirit it is.

Speaker C: Well, the beer we actually have a lot to thank because especially with some of them. And I don't know if it's okay to mention, but the athletic brewing for instance is the one that comes to mind. They helped show not just the consumer, I think the consumer was starting to experience that, but the trade that this is actually quality craft product. This is a really great choice and option. And so beer has helped pave the way and illustrate it, you know, from a share standpoint and so and spirits, um, similarly where we see more so in the on premise is that has really developed with mocktail programs. So that's also helped cultivate that. Where we're thriving is kind of backwards land when you think about marketing. We've actually started thriving in retail. In the off premise is where we've built the Geese and zero brand. And so the challenge has not been the consumer, the consumer is demanding it. And it's what has allowed us to grow so quickly and explosively in that channel and where we've seen just continued repeat purchases and growth. I think the challenge for wine is what I talked about earlier is earlier entrants there wasn't that same quality and craftsmanship perhaps. And so those same gatekeepers that uh, embraced mocktail programs or embraced non alk beer for their programs were more hesitant with wine. So the biggest upside opportunity for us is education and tasting the on premise right now. And it's been fun in this last year. I uh, just was speaking to it this morning that I don't get the same objections anymore in the on premise whether that be restaurant of uh, white tablecloth, fine dining or event venues. Think about concert venues. It is now, okay, there is quality there. Now it's which varietal and how do I represent that on the menu and do I go with 750 milliliter bottles or do I go with like a single serve can?

Speaker A: I was talking with somebody and they were saying that you know, NA had like its own section uh, in the menu that kind of dissolve and it just being more integrated into the menu, into menus as a whole. Are, Are, are you noticing that?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's funny, I had almost this exact conversation this morning and in on premise it's very different than off. And so at retail you're seeing um, you want a designated area because you don't want someone to accidentally pick up an alcohol product if they meant to buy non alcohol or vice versa. So you're seeing dedicated spaces. We've seen a lot of success for wine for it to be in the main wine list and menu by the glass. And it's easy enough to designate de alcoholized or non alk. Um, sometimes you still see a dedicated zero proof area or non alcoholic beverages. What is a little deflating and can be an underwhelm a guest is if they see zero proof cocktail or zero proof options. And I've seen this more than I care to see is they will list coffee, tea and soda and then their sole mocktail program is maybe a juice and a soda concoction, which at least there's something. But you know, for what this is worth, the consistent consumer research and feedback we get is we want an elevated experience. If we're out for happy hour, if we're at a concert, a game or you know, with our girlfriends at brunch, we don't want to have just a soda or water. Like I want to join even if I'm not partaking in alcohol or if I want to go back and forth in zebra stripe. So there is um, yes, where we see it mainstream, there's been a lot of success on a menu, but there's still again for wine there's so much opportunity and upside and work to be done.

Speaker A: So who is your target consumer or where do you see the most opportunity?

Speaker C: This is. This might surprise you. It surprises me. And the way it is pretty fragmented and the way we've organized that data set and think about a target consumer is it's actually occasions so. And I'll explain that with a few examples so let's think about Florida. Florida is our number two market behind California and Florida. We are thriving in that market. And with Publix, Well, Publix supermarket also offers free prescriptions and medications to their customers. And we know the population in Florida is an aging and mostly retired population. People on medication can't drink alcohol, but they still like to socialize and be on their golf course or at dinner with their friends and whatnot. And so we found that was a pretty surprising occasion and use case that non elk wines. It's, uh, a 94% crossover with people who do drink alcohol. So this is not actually someone who's sober. This is not necessarily just the 6 million women that are pregnant in this country at every any given time. This is not, um, somebody that is doing this because they're an elite athlete. These are different occasions. So that is one subset of who we're reaching. And that is a great opportunity for a range of our still wines, primarily. So those that are having dinner, those traditional wine use cases, then I'll come back to California, the number one market. This is young. This is primarily female. This is our target consumer. She is purchasing her groceries for the household. She ranges in age from the legal drinking age to a millennial mom. And she is purchasing the likes of these spritz cans or, you know, for the beach, for a picnic, for single serve. She is purchasing, you know, our spritz bottles for events to dinner. They're having these and zebra striping. California is really modeling and ahead of the country and modeling who that consumer is, that target audience. The other thing that we're, you know, and thinking ahead a little bit is we're also seeing a multicultural audience. They that prefer things a little bit sweeter. They don't necessarily want all this alcohol. And so with our spritzes especially, we have a rose. We have a little Riesling in there. So it's a little more fruit forward. That is serving a need state and a consumer cohort that we otherwise weren't serving with our traditional estate wines. So it is the way we figured out to look at it is, you know, again, I joked about zigging when others zag. From a marketing standpoint, we've realized, wow, this is about occasion. It's not so much putting confines around who this consumer is. Should we give her a clear identity and not trying to be out of focus in any way, but we've gotten really clear instead about the need state and what needs we are meeting through this vast line of products.

Speaker A: That makes sense. Yeah. And I was. I was talking to someone that does hop water and.

Speaker C: Oh, love hop water.

Speaker A: Yeah. They're like, we want to be your second beer. Right? Like, quote in quote killer.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we want to own the moderation occasion, and so we have full strength. Like, if you come in, a lot of times, I'll start with a non al, uh, glass of wine before I eat something or sparkling or whatnot, or non al beer mocktail. And then, yeah, with dinner, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have whatever glass of wine with my food. And it's that moderation and choice, for whatever reason go, you know, and so that is our mantra and finding ways to give you choice so you can moderate whatever that means to you.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. From an education standpoint, I'm seeing a lot of different phrases used across the board, like n a 0% d alcohol, you know, alcohol removed. What are you. Like, is there a term that works best with consumers or.

Speaker C: Well, I think. I think they are used interchangeably quite a bit, which can be okay. But we purposely put de alcoholized on our labels, and we show less than 0.5% because we start with actual fermented wine, because we start there. And in some cases other beer wines, other products do the same. We have gravitated and aligned on that term of de alcoholized because you don't want to mislead someone. You want to make sure somebody knows that it did start from an alcoholic place. Now, the less than 0.5%, no one will get a buzz or drunk on this. You will have, though. There is this placebo effect of relaxation or enjoyment. Sure. But. But this is the same. Like, what I have in this glass is a glass of orange juice. So fruit. You think about a fruit. I mean, this is, you know, it starts as a fruit. It's the same thing. And so just for clarity and education, we are using de alcoholized. And sure, it's okay to say non alk because really, this is not, um, you know, uh, this is not going to inebriate someone, but people, we want people to make a choice and what they're comfortable with. So that's how we've decided to label and, um, stick with that rubric.

Speaker A: Okay. Um, so one of the things that surprised me, I don't know if you've looked into THC beverages at all. It's like the yoga mom that's drinking them versus people that go to dispensaries. So are you seeing crossover with the THC bev consumer?

Speaker C: You know, that's an awesome question. The. Anecdotally, yes. Do I have concrete, tangible data and a market research on it? No, but that's part of, from a macroeconomic standpoint, part of the decline in alcohol consumption in general is because people are using other substances and other occasions call for different things. And, and so I keep bringing up concerts and music venues that might be more of a forum where someone will use THC or have, you know, consume a THC beverage or cbd, whatever that looks like, not necessarily in a liquid beverage form, but that is also where the ubiquitous beverage in hand comes in play. And you might not necessarily want to cross streams and have that experience with a full strength alcohol. So again, anecdotally I can speak to yes, 100%. And uh, just, you know, even in my own circles and own experimentation, friend groups and family and attest to that. And that's where we go back to. It's a, it's a great choice and we want to provide that option, especially when you have more fun, playful things like the spritzes and the sparkling and you know, for occasions like that.

Speaker A: As soon as you said rose, I'm like, uh, I'm in. So when it comes to marketing, what tactics have done well for you? What are you using?

Speaker C: Uh, yes, marketing. And this is one where the education is. We are obsessed with an education at scale. And so starting with what I. One of the things I said is we've been able to successfully build this brand primarily in the off premise. And so the tactics there are communication and education at the shelf in brick and mortar through samplings and demos. We have gotten very, uh, very supportive of that. And I almost said aggressive, but I didn't want to seem aggressive in my own speaking. But we are very much a big advocate of sampling because I think until you taste this and experience it, you might not believe it. And we want to do that at scale and in mass. And then the other piece of it, which I am so incredibly proud of, our team at Giessen in New Zealand, the digital marketing team, everything we are doing there from a social standpoint and programming to speak directly to the consumer to support what we're doing in store, to educate influencer cohorts showing consumers how to experience these products and wines and create mocktails and do fun things, whether that be for Galentine's or Dry January or the super bowl. Those tactics where in store, liquid to lips and then speaking directly to the consumer to get them in store have been a really beautiful synthesis of tactics to help educate and so that is foundational. Um, the other things then, because we now do have a pretty solid foundation, is exploring more events and lifestyle. This doesn't behave like old school wine. And not to knock wine, but it can be really boring and really stale and we're the antithesis of that. So we're doing Padel tennis events, we're doing wellness events, we're doing like the Galentine's Day event. We just did like scrapbooking. Um, and so just fun, cool stuff. We've done sober events, we're doing that, we're doing an F1 event. I mean there is a lot that we are having fun playing with and to show the different use cases and occasions and that just because it doesn't have alcohol doesn't mean it's not fun. So we're having fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'm always amazed to Stephen see on TikTok like those coffee raves. I'm um, like yes, yes, DJ at 9am yes.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's wild. It's so fun. We did one in New York drinks with benefits event in the fall and it was, I think it started at noon and I mean it was wild. Like the dance floor was crazy and a party at 4 in the afternoon, it was so cool. So it's really fun.

Speaker A: Um, have you found it challenging? You touched on this a little bit. But like distributors and retailers, I mean, yeah, it's hard.

Speaker C: I mean right now what's interesting is it's no surprise to anyone that the distribution channels in the US as, as far as alcohol beverage distribution goes is struggling. It's, it's a challenge in the overall alcohol beverage industry. As a result, businesses have had to contract, whether that be wineries, distilleries, breweries. As such, the supporting infrastructure has had to contract. So getting the product from us in New Zealand to a shelf at Total Wine or Publix or Wegmans or wherever here in Colorado at King Soopers is more challenging than it's ever been. And so the consumer demand is there, the retailer. It used to be a challenge, perhaps years ago. Now the data is so crystal clear. I mean everyone is expanding their offerings of non elk beverages, whether that be pure wine, ready to drink, whatever. That's not the challenge. The challenge has been then getting it and supporting it from a very traditional beverage alcohol network. And you think, and part of the reason a lot of times I will emphasize that we start with estate wine. We sell estate wine. We actually sell like beautiful single vineyard wines and now a gin. We support the industry. We do not want to alienate it. We are zebra stripers ourselves. But there can be some tension sometimes thinking that non elk might compete and uh, might be taking away or hurting the broader industry. And that is the antithesis of how we think about it. We think this is supplemental, this is both and not either or. And the data shows that. And so there's work to be done with distribution and making sure we support our distributors and making sure that we educate appropriately and do so and um, do so quickly but effectively. And so that is also, you know, we take accountability and responsibility for that alongside our importer partner and you know everybody. But that's. It's tough because it's a really hard time right now in the industry and nobody can escape it even, you know, even with a non out portfolio. So that's where we want to support and educate even more.

Speaker A: I think that's really smart. And you think ah, and maybe this is. They open before their time. But there's been some non elk bars. Right. Hm. Didn't make it. And you wonder if like you know, your approach is the right approach in terms of like, you know. Yeah, like we. It's just an expanded beverage landscape.

Speaker C: It's expanded. Right. And we foresee you know that the actually the mid strength. So we also have a uh, line called Pure Light and we're just testing it now in the US with just one SKU Sauvignon Blanc but it's 6% and we are doing quite a bit with that in New Zealand and Australia. That 6 to 8% is quite popular in Europe. And. And so right now we're still testing it and we're looking at that category very closely. We foresee that mid strength is going to explode well beyond even the non alk. And so it just goes back to this pendulum and it's occasion. It's not black and white, it's not rigid, it's fluid and pun intended it's fluid. But it's um, but it really is. And so even I joke, like last night at dinner I blended, I had, we had steaks and veggies on the grill. It was so warm here. And I opened our gies and zero red blend and I also had wanted to open this Italian red I wanted to try. So I had a little sip of it to taste and then you know, because I wanted more than a glass or two, so I just did my own blending and I was like okay, this is good. So nice. No rules, just fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. So what, um, it must be nice in the e commerce world. Are you able to like yes, freely with all the all red?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's wild. I mean it's opened our eyes with non elk that how the rest of the consumer product goods world behaves and operates. And so we have great partners in E commerce. So certainly the obvious that everyone knows is Amazon but there's a couple great partners. Uh, the zero proof better roads. I mean these are pure play non alk on online partners that have built entire businesses around that and it's so freeing to be able to serve that and accommodate that so seamlessly. And um, I mean even just there's a lot of other little retailers that we want to make sure we're reaching that have a similar platform. They might just not have the reach yet. But we're actually going to be at the big natural um, food, consumer product good show next week Expo west in Anaheim California because we can play in that arena now. We can um, serve those needs for retailers, for online players. You know Thrive Market is one we'd love to partner with. So it's, it's really cool.

Speaker A: That's awesome.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So what's next for Giessen or you?

Speaker C: Yeah, well Courtney, I am in my dream job so this is, this is now my um, my stocking has ceased so now I can be obsessed with educating en masse and educating at scale about these products. And really we're still so underdeveloped with these non oc wines. Like I said, the on premise and hospitality is really a big focus for Giessen. Also the natural channel. So think about all those locations that don't have beer and wine licenses or don't get serviced by three tier beverage alcohol players. So we're able to now distribute to those places. And so we are looking at that expansion and serving that customer and those need states there and the on premise and then I teased it a little bit. But from a product innovation we love and know wine and from this incredible region of Marlboro. And so everything we do is rooted in that but pushing boundaries. So there's a product that'll get um, launched later this year that will be really fun. Um, that's counter to what you might think. And then what I alluded to with the mid strength um, with our Purelite which is just now available in the Sa BLANC in the U.S. we want to keep looking at that and see how we can better serve that customer needs state at that 6% level or even 8%. We've got some 8% of these cutie patootie spritzes in new Zealand and Australia launching now that are pretty yummy and doing really well. So would love to get our hands on those here in the U.S. so, you know, developing channels where we haven't been able to service and then also continuing to innovate. And then of course the third thing is partnering and being good partners to the existing retail and on premise partners. We have now just continuing to educate and support and play in the way we have with digital and social and really, really amplify our message and presence.

Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, I look forward to seeing everything you're doing. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story.

Speaker C: Of course. Thank you for giving us the opportunity and letting me drink a glass of Sauvignon Blanc in the day on a Wednesday.

Speaker A: All right, take care.

Speaker C: Okay, thanks so much.

Speaker A: Bye Bye.

Speaker B: All right, everybody, that wraps up today's episode of Eat Drink Social. Thanks for listening. If you have a story to share or know somebody that does, feel free

Speaker A: to reach out to us.

Speaker C: Sa.