The Honest Test: Are You Actually Ready to Raise? with Marty Loughlin, Digital Irish Venture Fund

Speaker A: Like if you've got three ideal investors, save them. Go talk to people that, you know, you don't care if you don't get money from so that you can, you know, learn from your, uh, mistakes and where you're off track and get feedback and hone your pitch so that when you're, when you're going to the people you really care about, you're, you've got your A game ready.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Digital Irish Podcast where innovation meets heritage and global impact is

Speaker C: the name of the game.

Speaker B: I'm Dave Byrne, your host on this journey through the stories of Irish innovators, entrepreneurs and creators who are having an incredible mark on the world stage. We are here to spotlight the trailblazers who have taken the essence of Ireland's rich culture and merged it seamlessly with cutting edge ideas.

Speaker C: We are here to showcase the incredible

Speaker B: talent that Irish visionaries bring to the world. Welcome back to the Digital Irish Podcast.

Speaker C: Uh, a few weeks ago we sat

Speaker B: down with Marty Loughlin from the Digital Irish Venture Fund and we spend most of that first conversation on the big picture Irish ambition, the Dysborough why Ireland punches above its weight and um, what a challenger mindset actually buys you when you're trying to scale into the US

Speaker C: if you haven't heard that one, go

Speaker B: back and listen to it first. It sets the table for this.

Speaker C: Today we're getting a lot more practical.

Speaker B: The venture fund is evolving, moving up m the stage curve into the growth and scale up rounds where there's more than a 1 billion euro capital gain gap sitting in the Irish market right now. And Marty walks us through how that's reshaping the way he thinks about every meeting with the founder. This conversation is really aimed at founders who want to understand how Marty actually makes decisions. So we go deep on what he's looking at in the first meeting with the founder. And Marty lays out exactly what happens after the venture fund writes a check. There's a playbook there that a lot of founders find very practical and m very supportive. We also talk about reserves and follow on strategy. The hardest conversations he's had to have with founders and what he thinks every first time founder should do before they send a single deck to their dream investor. So there's some great advice here that um, I recommend any founder pay attention to, especially if you're preparing to raise. So with that, I'm going to drop you straight in it.

Speaker C: Marty, firstly, thank you so much for taking out more time with us. This is part two of our conversation. I said at the beginning of our first conversation that we had a lot to talk about. So uh, this is a very rare moment where we actually split up a conversation over two episodes. So uh, thank you for taking out the additional.

Speaker A: I absolutely enjoyed the conversation. Appreciate the opportunity. Dave, so great to be here for a little more.

Speaker C: Absolutely. I think today what I wanted to focus more on is uh, the digital Irish venture fund itself. Because you talked about something that I found quite interesting which was almost this gap between the very early stage capital that's available and this very large scale capital that is available from institutional investors like in the U.S. um, and this gap that exists then between the two that it says sounds like that the Digital Irish venture fund is trying to plug and to try and help with a better bridge between those two sectors.

Speaker A: Would I be right in saying that 100% right? Yeah. So um, we're at a transition point for the digital Irish venture funds. First fund was very much uh, a mission driven pilot and uh, the mission was to put money into the Irish startup sector, into um, Irish startups that were thinking about entering the US market where the digital Irish network could be of value to them and help them with uh, a soft landing and de risk their entry into the US market. We've proven that we get access to great uh, deals from Ireland. We've looked at probably 100 opportunities over the last two years invested in single um, digit number of those. Uh, as we've talked a little bit before, the appeal from the first fund was our cash phrase was small check, big network. So uh, we were investing in seed rounds where we were relatively minor investor in the round. But both the founders and their VCs wanted us on the cap table because they see the value of that digital Irish network and that support that we can provide when they entered the US market. So um, that's what's really been exciting for us is being able to prove that that model works. One of the things that was interesting about fund one was it was a volunteer initiative. Um, so everyone besides me that was involved has a full time job. Our investment committee are all people who have careers of their own. M and we reached kind of the limit of the scale of what we can do with the first fund on a volunteer basis. So our second fund is going to be a much larger commercial um, enterprise and we're really thinking about um, our investment thesis differently too. So um, as opposed to being you know, a small investor in a seed round, we see opportunity to, to uh, co invest with larger checks in that growth and scale up phase as well um, and really plug that gap. Well we won't plug it on our own but, but at least help fill that gap. Um, because that's, that's a billion dol plus gap between funding that's uh, available in Ireland and what's needed over the next few years. Um, so we see a tremendous opportunity for investors.

Speaker C: So thinking about the difference between a seed round and that kind of a later round because uh, thinking from the founder perspective, obviously seed rounds or grants or like early stage funding, there has to be certain ideas and certain things in place. But what's the difference between what they need to have in place for a seed round versus what this Fund two is actually looking at now for sure.

Speaker A: Um, so I think the key difference is the maturity of the enterprise or the startup um, itself. Um, so at seed stage um, what we're looking for is um, you know we need to have conviction about the market opportunity. We need to believe in the founding team. We want to see a little bit of traction to show that they actually have product market fit and can sell this to their target uh customer. But there's a lot of pieces of the business not in place yet. Um, and um, and and they may end up also pivoting beyond you know, going forward. But um, they don't really have the infrastructure in place to scale and that's what they're raising money for is to start building out the team and the infrastructure to be able to grow the business. Especially if they're thinking of enter US market, there's a whole set of things they need to address. Um, with, with the scale up phase and, and ah, the growth phase it's a little different. You're looking for much more maturity in, in the business, a lot of the infrastructure in place, um, proven sales model, proven go to market um, and you're more looking to put fuel on the fire. You're sort of saying here's a great nugget that's kind of little engine that's working and we need to turn into a big engine. Um so it's a little different but there's obviously a lot of overlap in those two, two things too.

Speaker C: And then thinking about the hundred or so meetings that you've had for the first round, um, you know obviously with this new fund you're going to be speaking to even more uh founders. And um, is there anything that comes to mind when um, you look at founders where you think I wish you had just prepared this for the meeting or I wish you had more information about this before you came to this meeting. Is there anything that you kind of would find yourself wanting a founder, uh, to bring into the room in those conversations?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, almost always. I mean, no one comes to the table or rarely comes to the table with a perfect story. And it's almost always a little bit different too. Um, and it's rarely the founders themselves. It's usually the story or the business model or. Um. So we talked earlier about ambition. That's often one. Um, I think the other one is, uh, a real understanding of the competitive landscape. So sometimes, um, founders will come forward and they've got a, a view of the market based on what they've seen in Ireland and England. Um, um, but not necessarily have a good understanding of the, say, the competitive landscape globally or in the U.S. um, and that, that can be very, uh, impactful in terms of, of what the real opportunity is. Um, yeah. So, um, I think, um, you know, the product market fit and customers they've sold to, you know, selling in the US and, and Ireland, UK are different. Um, and so just because you were able to sell, um, in the domestic market doesn't mean you'll be able to sell here. So that, you know, again, there's a lot of dimensions of the business that are different as they think globally. That's probably the areas where they, they often lack maturity, I would say.

Speaker C: And in those situations, are you thinking about founders from a perspective of, or probably should rephrase this in, in moments like that, when you see a founder where you think, hey, you don't really truly understand the competition, uh, you don't truly understand the markets that you should be going after. Um, is there any moment where you kind of would almost say to a founder, like, listen, go off, figure this out, come back to us once you've figured this out?

Speaker A: Almost every time. I mean, there's very few businesses that we've looked at that we say never. Um, it's almost always, um, and we may have different levels of conviction in, in those and some we may say we like. Ah, you know, there's a company I was talking to last week. I won't say who it was, but I feel like they're building something very interesting, but it's really a feature of, of a larger product. Um, and they're most likely a company that, that should be acquired by one of the bigger vendors in their space. As opposed, I don't think, at least not yet is there a business there. But I, I also have seen enough in my life that I, I don't consider myself an Expert in judging uh, who can be successful and who can't. And I've been surprised many times by people who I thought were going down the wrong path and it turns out so I, I try um, restrain myself from being discouraging to founders. Um, you know almost every founder I speak with is someone who has conviction about what they're doing and who am I to take that away from them. So we do try and, and guide them um, and you know, and give blunt feedback. And I think that's one of the positive feedbacks we've gotten from the companies that we talk to that you know we're for the most part where we come off more like uh, friendly operators than we do shark, uh, uh, VCs. Um, and so that creates a founder friendly conversation that allows us then to be blunt sometimes about what we think will work and won't work. But I always say we're just one opinion there. You know you need to talk to 10 different people and when you talk to 10 people there are patterns. Um, and at that point you need to take it seriously. But any one voice shouldn't uh, be the one that discourages you. But as I said uh, I love getting to know companies at the uh, pre seed stage even if they're not ready to uh, enter the US market or, or take funds from ah, from a fund like ours because then you get to watch six months or a year of progress. You see how the founders deal with adversity, you see how their product pivots and um, it's just a much different decision a year later than it is on day one. And you know, um, yeah, I can think of some founders that I, I met very early on that just even as an angel investor I wasn't ready to invest in that. You know, 18 months later I put, put a check in their round because I could see the progress that they made and I'd gotten to know them over that, that period of time. So I always encourage companies even if they, they don't think that they're necessarily a fit for the fund. I'm always willing to take the call and have a half hour conversation, see where they're at. Um, oftentimes uh, we uh, our network can make introductions to uh, vcs that may be dealing with earlier stage us or early stage in us or let's say H Band Network in, in Ireland where you've got a whole bunch of angel investors who maybe better support a pre seed company and where they can also get mentorship and advice, not just money. So uh, yeah, sorry, I rambled on a bit there, Dave, but I think that's, uh, it's a space that's, you know, I'm passionate about because this is the reason I did this in the first place is the opportunity to meet and help these young Irish founders is what motivates me. And, um, I think there's many ways we can be helpful long before the fund is ready to write them a check.

Speaker C: You know, it's interesting. Then I imagine that also helps with the fund itself because I imagine that creates brand new avenues for deal flow because you're already aware of companies before they're even ready to actually have that conversation about the funding.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I literally got a, um, a message this morning about a company in Dublin that we looked at a year ago and they weren't ready and, and now they, they believe they are. So we're going to take another look. And obviously our, our look at them this time is informed by what we saw a year ago and the progress that they've made. And um, and so the, the investment decision is much more richly informed.

Speaker C: I, I also, you know, one of the things that you mentioned about the fund one was like, small check bid network. Um, I also imagine that thinking of this from the founder perspective, there's actually a valuable learning about the value of like the Digital Irish Venture Fund, which is that, um, sometimes a check is. Some checks, even if they're like, they look the same value, some are more valuable than others, uh, beyond the actual cash amount. It sounds like that what the Digital Irish Venture Fund is really trying to do is create an investment that goes beyond just the financial investment and truly becomes a partner in the business and one that can really help open doors and expand the growth of the business that it's investing in.

Speaker A: Well, thank you, Dave. That was a great pitch for the fund. I mean, no, you nailed it. I mean, absolutely. Like, again, you know, the people involved in this fund, um, are, um, you know, motivated by a mission as well as, um, financial return. Um, and so, um, it's very important to us that we're not just looking to deploy capital and walk away. We're vested in the success of the companies that we put money into. Um, and we can demonstrate that and actually operationalize it with, uh, with the network, which is very exciting. Um, it also creates value for our investors because, um, we're, we're, we're not just, again, deploying capital and walking away. We're actually providing value to those organizations in a pretty substantial transition that they're making into the US market and de risking that for them, which again as a, as an investor, you know, if we can offer an opportunity to get in at better deal valuations and then de risk that valuation, that company, ah by the support that we provide through its life, then that, that creates a more robust investment um, proposition for our LPs. So um, yeah, all of those things are important to us.

Speaker C: So then you know, thinking of like what has happened with some of the companies within the Fund 1 portfolio, like how have you supported them? Post check. Aside from like helping de risk their business.

Speaker A: Yeah. So one of the things that we do uh, with the companies that we invest in is um, usually you know, when the dust settles from the closing the round, we will get the CEO and whatever part of their team they want on a call with our investment committee. So I mentioned we've got eight people on our investment committee. These are folks who come from diverse uh, uh, businesses, financial and otherwise. They're operators as well as investors, um, in um, D.C. in New York and Boston. Um, we get the founder on a call with that group and give them an opportunity to um, first of all give us an update on the business, sort of post their funding round. But then um, what their ask is for us so how can we help? Um, and that can be obviously customers is usually the one. So they help us with their ideal customer profile. Um, and then we can tap into our networks to help make introductions. But they're also interested in partners and distributors, uh, people that can augment their business. Um, um, also potential investors. Right. So they already have to be thinking about their next round and um, are there investors that we can introduce them to? Um, so that's the, that's the kind of how we kick off the process, um, is with giving them full exposure to our team and giving them the opportunity to tell us what they're doing and then have the ask that they have of, of our team and then we try and basically spread that out among our network. But um, as you know, like our greatest connector, an unsung hero is Fergal Kenny, the founder of Digital Irish. And uh, Fergal is just uh, an amazing network among the Irish American community. I don't think there's anyone of any significance in any American corporation with Irish heritage that Fergal doesn't know or certainly is one hop away from. And so you know, for many of us we have to go away and think about and come up with uh, opportunities for the, for these CEOs. Fergal always gives he'll come up with three right on the call. Um, and I've never seen that fail. And so, um, that you know, we start delivering value very early. And then I, um, know for the founders that, you know, some of the CEOs land in New York. The team will meet them in person occasionally for coffee for mentorship, for expanding that network, um, as well as then attending the Digital Irish events and using that as a way to expand our community. And I think that's an area where, um, you know, today in Fund one, we're very reliant on the Digital Irish organization, which is a not for profit. To help us with that network support. We have some very interesting plans for things we want to do as a commercial entity once we um, get Fund 2 operational to expand and build on that and make it more structural, ah, and repeatable for our portfolio companies. So I think again there's a great opportunity there to do even more than we're doing today.

Speaker C: You know, thinking about the, the transition from Fund one to Fund two. Um, now obviously this, you know, we've talked a lot about ambition and this is, you know, the fund demonstrating its own ambition.

Speaker A: Absolutely, I've thought about that a lot actually.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, you know, but thinking about the current environment that we're in, has there been anything that's kind of, of change, uh, in the current environment that's made it possible to kind of actually have this bigger ambition? Is there anything that's kind of ah, transitioned in the industry that has really shaped the direction of the fund?

Speaker A: Uh, I mean, I think there's lots of factors. Um, I could probably talk for an hour about that one question alone, but I think it's a combination of things. Um, just the structural opportunity in Ireland, the fact that there are startups there, um, and that that's starting to get visibility globally. Um, and these are sophisticated tech startups, not, you know, not uh, not what you expect from a little island. Um, so I think that there's credibility about what, what kind of capabilities ah, can come out of Ireland. Uh, I mean a big one is connectivity, right? It's um, our ability to communicate. And again, post pandemic, I think a lot of us have, um, our eyes have been opened about what's possible, uh, in terms of how you can do business remotely. And I think that has a huge, um, a huge role to play in this. I don't think Fund 1 could have happened before the pandemic. Um, and so in every dimension we're remote, like I live near Boston. The bulk of the folks are in New York, uh, There's people in D.C. um, our LPs are from all over the country. We're investing in startups in Ireland. We're connecting them with people globally. Uh, that's made possible by our global tech connectivity and obviously our adoption of that post pandemic. So I think those are a couple of things. And then I think the last thing is probably just that, um, latent need, which I found in myself, to connect back to Ireland. Like, I got involved in the Irish startup sector through a WhatsApp group. There's an Irish startup, WhatsApp group. And that was my. I had no idea. I've been gone from Ireland a long time. I had no idea how vibrant the startup sector was until I kind of came across this WhatsApp group and got chatting with, with founders in Ireland. Ended, um, up doing a few angel investments because of conversations that came out of that group. Um, and then I met the digital Irish and, and uh, organization and Fergal and, and that's what the genesis of the fund. So I, I think that that's that opportunity to communicate, um, and build a community globally, um, is what makes it possible. And we're really just scratching the surface of that right now. We're just starting it.

Speaker C: I think it's fairly exciting, isn't it? Like, I mean, uh, just everything that we've talked about, about just the growth and uh, the number of Irish startups, the quality of Irish startups, um, it really does feel like that, you know, plugging this gap of like, you know. What did you say? The one point?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's $1.3 billion.

Speaker C: Yeah. Ah, yeah, yeah. Plugging that gap is just, uh, it's a massive opportunity for both like the investors and the startups, but also the Irish economy as well. Because so many of these companies do seem to be then reinvesting back in Ireland, whether it's opening offices or expanding there, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that was very much in Fund one. We wanted the money to go into the Irish economy, to employ people in Ireland. As I said, because of the scale of Fund two, we're casting a wider net, but that's still a key part of our mission. I, um, think the other thing is that, um, where the Irish startup sector is still embryonic is in terms of, um, exited founders reinvesting in the next generation of startups. And it's happening, but it's at a small scale just because the whole sector is new and there just haven't been that many Irish exits yet. But There are a lot of people who are having exits. They're going back to Ireland and then they're becoming angel investors and mentors. Mentors and putting money back into the system there and also then spreading the word. And they've got connections with American VCs, with European VCs, who may not be aware of the opportunity there. And so it's all part of a very virtuous cycle that we feel the fund can be part of.

Speaker C: Feeding to amazing stuff and thinking about how the fund plugs into existing infrastructure that's there. Because obviously, as we've talked about, there's a lot of siege funding available at the moment. And it's actually, you know, uh, it's possibly becoming a crowded space actually, because there's a lot of like, you know, groups that are looking to do seed funding. How are you thinking about how this fund partners with those to maybe kind of create a. Create this kind of virtuous, uh, ecosystem?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's very much how we built the deal flow for the first fund was, um, you know, we don't have a. The fund is a, as I mentioned, volunteer initiative. We're all based in the US So we don't have feet on the ground in Ireland. And so very much our deal flow comes from our network. Um, and so we've built relationships with the key Irish VCs, with the HBAN Angel Network, with the, uh, you know, the regional centers, with the universities, um, and then Digital Irish Network itself, the legacy, I call it the Legacy Organization, but the original Digital Irish organization and their network, and not offending anybody, but, um, uh, uh. So, uh, it is through partnership that our deal flow has materialized for fund one. And we view that fund two will just be an expansion of that. Um, and one of the good things is that it's been a very collaborative process and for the most part, and I say for the most part, there's no counterexample. Um, we found that, uh, both the founders in Ireland and their VC partners like having the Digital Irish Fund on their cap table, um, because of, again, partly it's diversifying the financial risk for them. Um, but more Importantly, in Fund 1, it was really the network and the soft landing and de risking that we can help with in the US Um, and so really Fund two is just that at a grander scale. Um, and I think there's a lot more we can do as a commercial, uh, organization. Um, in terms of, as I was talking a little bit earlier about, you know, leveraging and supporting the Digital Irish organization and using that network more effectively. Um, I think also building our uh, and expanding our VC network in the US So we can bring more uh, partners to the table, um, both earlier and also in collaboration and then later than us. Um, so there's just, there's just, just again tremendous opportunity there.

Speaker C: It sounds less competitive, um, and more incremental.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you know that, that ebbs and flows in, in the, in the VC world too. I mean there are times when there's lots of capital available, um, and it's chasing the hottest opportunities and it can get harder to get into those deals. It's not a, it's not a factor that we've encountered in the last two years. I don't really see it in the sort of time frame of investment for Fund 2 being an issue. Um, who knows down the road what may change. But I think for the foreseeable future the partnership model works not just for us, but it works for Irish founders, Irish VCs. So I don't see downside risk in

Speaker C: that and thinking about like Irish founders who may be abroad at the moment. So let's just say if so you mentioned like Lisbon and Berlin, um, how are you thinking about kind of tapping those, kind of, those kind of more emerging markets where there's Irish founders?

Speaker A: Yeah, um, so I think the Digital Irish Network is going to be critical to that. Um, so as the Digital Irish organization itself expands its chapters um, internationally and we've seen new ones come online in the last year, um, that's a way for us to tap into those communities because we won't be able to, we won't have feet on the ground in Lisbon or Berlin or Hong Kong or, or Melbourne. Um, so we need help with that. But it's going to come via uh, the uh, Digital Irish Network. And we see that as um, probably a greater role in deal flow for Fund 2 than it was in Fund 1 because of that international component, global component.

Speaker C: What does the success look like in the next few years? Sure.

Speaker A: Um, so I mean number one we're ah, a venture capital organization so financial success is critical. Um, and so, but that, that kind of goes without saying. So I'll focus on the softer elements. I think, um, if you look back to the history of this fund, it started with the Digital Irish organization which itself was set up to be a, uh, an assistance to uh, Irish startups and help bridge that, bridge the Ireland in the US and that business opportunity. That was their mission from day one. And as part of that they did some angel investing in Irish startups. And out of that came, came the digital Irish Fund, a larger structural opportunity. And so the, the mission of, of the fund when it was started was to put money into the Irish economy, help Irish startups be successful, help them launch in the US and build a bridge, uh, from the Irish diaspora back to Ireland. So, so those are the things that even as we look at Fund two, um, it has more of a commercial, I guess, focus than Fund 1. So slightly less mission driven but slightly more commercial. But that bridge is still for me, I will look back, um, and consider a success if we have that bridge in place where we have a sustainable model of raising capital in the US Funding Irish startups, helping them establish that US presence, de risking their entry into the US market, um, and have that in a way that's sustainable. Where we were looking at Fund 3 and Fund 4 and growing in scale with each fund, putting more money into that Irish, um, economy and then seeing exits from our portfolio companies where those founders are putting money back into the Irish economy and being mentors and investors in the next generation. So that virtuous cycle that I talked about, those are the things that I will look back at, uh, and say, you know, that was a success. And that's, I'm glad I, I did it for those reasons. And I think I speak probably for, for the team as well when I

Speaker C: say that, uh, honestly that idea of just like the continual growth and having founders that you know, in Fund 1 and Fund 2 were invested in, then coming back in and Fund 3 and Fund 4, Fund 5 or whenever it is reinvesting, it's, there's going to be a lot of like, uh, appreciation and like, you know, the classic Irish gras for absolutely.

Speaker A: No, I, I've heard it already. Um, like even. Which is very exciting. Some very young founders who are, you know, still trying to raise money, improve their model, talking about how they're going to give back and be that next generation, which is just tremendous to see and I love that ambition and confidence. Um, the other thing is, um, like one of the great pleasures for me in over the last two years is just the positive response I get talking to people about the fund. People love the idea of what this fund is doing, um, and helping young Irish founders and some older ones too. Um, and so it's a great pleasure to be part of this. Um, um, it gives me great pleasure in terms of my connection to Ireland. But just those conversations are very validating for what we're doing in our mission too. So happy to be able to do it.

Speaker C: How can they get in touch with you or anybody else at the fund to kind of learn more?

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, so you can reach out to, uh, myself, uh, Marty lachlanigitalirish.com um, is my email address. So happy to take inquiries anytime. We also have the digitalirishfund.com website where you can learn more.

Speaker C: Let's just say if there's a founder that's now thinking to themselves, m, I want to sense check if I'm ready for an expansion into the US or an expansion globally, um, what advice would you give them to help them test whether or not they are ready for that moment and then subsequently ready for a conversation about a round that goes beyond just the seed fund?

Speaker A: Yeah, um, I mean there's a lot of elements that go into being ready, um, and they tend to be a little bit different by every opportunity. But I think the main thing is kind of coming back to something that we talked about earlier, which is reach out for help and feedback. Like go talk to as many angel investors and as, and uh, VCs, um, in Ireland as you can. Reach out to, um, UK investors, reach out to folks like Digital Irish and get a half an hour, do your pitch and get feedback on it. Um, and again, for me it's like no one opinion should be the reason that you don't go forward. Um, but talk to 8, 9, 10 people, you'll see the pattern and feedback. They'll tell you whether you're ready or not. Um, and so it's a tremendous learning experience and you're getting on the radar of people that even if you're not ready right now, you're going to want to talk to in three and six months. So it's, it's just, just do it. Get out there, tell your story to as many people as possible and get validation outside of your friend community. And that's probably one of the biggest, um, uh, what would I say, sort of naive. Naivetes I see with founders is they've, hey, I've talked to all these people, they all love the idea. And I, I often say, hey, well you talk to four people that you work to, five family members and, and three people that know you. Otherwise they're not going to tell you your idea sucks. They're not going to tell you that they're not really necessarily sophisticated investors. They're not going to care about the same things that. So get outside of your comfort zone and talk to people who are going to challenge you. Um, and think about also like there's like don't go talk right away to the ideal, uh, like if you've got three ideal investors, save them. Go talk to people that you know, you don't care if you don't get money from, um, so you don't burn those opportunities too soon.

Speaker C: That's a really interesting one actually where don't necessarily speak straight away to your ideal investor. Uh, I'd never thought of that.

Speaker A: Like, I think, I think the same with um, a little bit different with customers because you need to be talking to the right customers to shape your product. But when you're testing ideas, you want to test them on people that like uh, burner, burner opportunities, if you like people, um, so that you can learn from your mistakes, uh, and where you're off track and get feedback and hone your pitch so that when you're going to the people you really care about, you got your A game ready.

Speaker C: That's a really good lesson because I think uh, obviously a temptation of going, oh, this would be a great investor. I'm just going to go straight to them and have that conversation, having that sense check and the. Almost like the trial and error before that conversation.

Speaker A: The other thing I would say is, um, I often see investor decks that aren't ready. Um, and um, one of the issues is people think, okay, I don't want to look like every other investor deck. I need to get creative. And what happens is uh, as a, as a potential investor, we look at decks, you know, all day long and um, there's a formula of things that you want to see in the deck. And if the deck follows that, that's the formula, the set of things you want to see in the order you want to see them. You can focus on the content and not where is the answer to this question. So it actually makes it much easier to digest a deck that follows a fairly um, vanilla structure that the content is your own. And um, that's. So that's one piece of advice I would give to. Again it's usually the younger founders, they, they time. Try and get creative with their deck and I'd say no, go, go to your favorite LLM. Um, get a, ask it for a, an example of a structure of a pitch deck that's, that's raised money from the best VCs. You'll come back with an outline of 10 slides that you should have. Follow that outline. Um, and it's gonna, it's gonna create a better impression with investors. They're going to digest more in a shorter space of time and gives You a better chance of getting a meeting, which is really. That's the goal of the deck, is to make the investor want to have a call with you because then you get to really pitch.

Speaker C: It's funny because I have heard from like, storytelling experts often they say you can tell the greatest story of all time, but make sure that the structure is a familiar structure. Like the, uh, it's almost like the. Yeah, I'm simplifying it down. It's like, hey, like it's the beginning, the middle of the end.

Speaker B: Yes, there.

Speaker C: Yes. There are incredible storytellers that can start like a Christopher Nolan can do memento, where the beginning is the end and that kind of thing. But that is somebody that's really honed it over.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Like, uh, still using the classic storytelling of beginning, middle and end. And it's like you can tell a great story, but as long as, like, you are using the foundation, which is a recognizable structure, people will resonate with it. The moment that you take that apart, doesn't care matter how big great your story is, people won't be able to connect with it.

Speaker A: Exactly. If you're flicking around like, what's the product market fit? Or who's the team? And they're just not where you expect them to be, you'll just get frustrated and walk on to the next one. So. Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker C: Yeah. And probably, uh, probably in a VC pitch is not the exact time to experiment with subverting expectations.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Wonderful, uh, stuff. Well, Marty, I can't thank you enough for the time. This is again, this is the first time that we've had to break up a conversation over two episodes. So, ah, if you're listening to this and you haven't listened to part one, the link will be in the show notes. I definitely recommend, uh, checking that out. Um, but Marty, thank you so much again for joining us today.

Speaker A: Wonderful chatting with you and yeah, I'm always happy to talk about the Digital Irish fund and experience. So, uh, absolutely, my pleasure. Thank you.

Speaker B: And that is it for our conversation with Marty Lachlan. If you are a founder preparing to raise right now, the thing I'd want you to take away from this conversation is the advice Marty gave about how you sequence your investor meetings. Don't go straight to the top three dream investors. Go to eight or nine first people where it doesn't matter if they pass and use those meetings to sharpen your story. When you finally walk into the rooms that really matter, then you'll have your A game ready. Instead of learning on the job in front of those people. If Marty describes something today that lines

Speaker C: up where you are, you can reach

Speaker B: him directly at uh Marty lachlanigitalirishuh.com or learn about the fund at uh, digitalirishfund.com thank you to you as well the listener for joining us today. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with somebody else who may also find it helpful. Please also like and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. We will be back again very soon. Until then, San Ga Fall Sam.