How Inclusive Leadership Unlocks Human Potential | Eyvonne Anthony-Eleko

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Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Sponsored Jobs Inclusion is not by it's not just ticking off the box. One thing for you to bring people on board, but let's bring people on board because they have the talent. Inclusion means you're recognizing somebody. Uh, whether we're talking about dei, it means we're recognizing somebody talent, not because, oh, that and one of the. And this again, these are, uh, conversations with organizations and Their culture. Right. You're bringing somebody on because they're smart, because you see results, not the process.

Ademola Odewade: Your life. Ladies and gentlemen, once again, welcome to the Kingdoms podcast and Diary of a cfo. And today I've got with me a guest who is very, very dear to my heart. Fighting out of Texas, United States of America. Big welcome, Yvonne. Anthony Ellacor. How are you, Yvonne?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Thank you. I'm, um, well, thank you. How are you doing today?

Ademola Odewade: Doing well, doing well. I cannot complain. I cannot complain. We've been getting really, really high profile guests on the podcast and, you know. Yeah. Happy that, you know, something that started like a joke is now a global platform. Uh, and of course, I'm grateful to have you. And of course, you know, I always say something, an attitude of gratitude is good attitude. And when a person shares the time with you, they're sharing their life with you. Because the SI unit for measuring life is sky. So please sit back while I read introduction that I carefully curated for you. I love to give people their flowers, why they are still alive. So. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another powerful episode. Today we are joined by a remarkable leader whose work sits at the intersection of inclusion, empowerment, leadership and social transformation. Our guest is born Anthony Eleko, founder of the daughter of Heirloom Support and Empowerment initiative and organization championing neurodivergence, inclusion, disability rights and accessibility across Africa. Through advocacy, consulting, community building and education, she is reshaping how society views disability, opportunity and human potential. Yvonne's work reminds us that true leadership is not measured by how people are included in the room. Um, it is measured by how many barriers have removed so everyone can participate fully. Today, we will explore her journey. The realities facing neurodivergent individuals across Africa, the future of inclusive leadership, personal resilience, disability, credibility building, and how purpose driven leaders can create lasting generational impact. Yvonne, you're once again, welcome to the podcast.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Thank you, thank you. That was beautifully said. Um, I don't think I could have even introduced myself better than you did, so I appreciate it and thank you for having me on your platform. It's such an honor to be here.

Ademola Odewade: You are welcome. You're welcome. I remember I once had a guest, and of course he called, he says, king Dames. Right. Adewalla. The king of intros. I guess you probably agree with him.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I second that. I totally agree with that.

Ademola Odewade: Wow, interesting. So, uh, everybody sees you right now as that advocate, right? But yes, take us back to the beginning. Like, who was young Yvonne before? All of the titles, the recognition, the advocacy Work.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Hey, like, thank you. So young Yvonne was very curious. Young Yvonne was a people person. I remember growing up in Nigeria, and I just always wondered why I was so curious about everything. I would ask my mom the most random questions, and she would always be like, can you just, you know, let me be for a second. I'm working. I was curious in getting to dip my hands into a lot of things. I. I think I took almost all classes that would, you know, that would kick off my curiosity. I was a people person. I loved being active. I played sports, so. But one thing was sure for me, I hated maths. Of all the things that I could have done, I hated maths. And at some point there, I honestly thought there was something wrong with me, because growing up in Niger, you have to know maths because it's, uh, we have a one narrow way of measuring excellence. And at some point I questioned if I was smart enough. I was always curious about why other people were doing better than I thought I should be doing at that point in my life. But I. Looking back now and the work that I do, I realized that the chatterbox, the, uh, you know, the very energetic me, the people person in me all set me up. It just laid the foundation to the work that I do now because I'm in the social, uh, in the social advocacy side of things. I'm. I'm a manager. And the people that I lead at my, you know, at my corporate job will say, Yvonne is easily the nicest in the m. You know, the best manager we've worked with. And so that kind of just takes me back, and it makes me realize that growing up and just not having the right words for what I, uh, you know, my person kind of just made me curious and set me up for who I am today.

Ademola Odewade: Wow. Amazing story. But, you know, it's quite a similar story for me as well. Uh, I was quite poor at math. But how did somebody who was poor at math end up becoming an economist, a chartered accountant, and having an mba?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: It's.

Ademola Odewade: It's crazy. But the truth is, the ADHD mind is very strong. And growing up, uh, you know, very. People try to classify you as stupid. I think it was too late before I realized. But I think for me, one thing that kept me going was faith. You know, growing up in a Christian family, at the age of 16, I was sent to Bible school. I read the whole of the Bible, but one verse that always stuck with me is Philippians, chapter 4, verse 13. I can do all things through Christ, strengthens me and for me, I just, I always love a challenge. If you want me to get something done, just doubt me. Doubt is my fuel. And you know, like, yeah, I, I found a way because I, I ended up discovering that mathematics is about principles. So if you get the principles right, yeah, you can, you know, you can get it right. So I, I, I just had to find a way. And now, now we, here we are today. Of course, I love sharing this experience. Uh, and you know, like, I think there's always a positive bias when you meet somebody whose life experience is similar to yours. So, so what life experiences shaped your passion for disability, inclusion and neurodivergence? Advocacy. Like, I'm neurodivergent, but I'm not into the advocacy. I try what I can. Right, but why, why did you take it up so personal?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Just, there are two things, right? Number one, growing up and not having the right words for who I was and being relegated to a, uh, part of the community or society that almost, people, people, thought almost was not gonna be able to achieve anything in life just because I didn't fit into the mold. That experience made me realize how much talent we're leaving behind, particularly in Africa and, uh, in Nigeria, for example. And so it made me, it made me realize that we need a more inclusive world. Because if you think about it right now, and most neurodivergent or persons with disabilities not having the right access to the system or the design is also impacting the economics because now you have a huge sector of the commi, of the society that cannot contribute to the economy. And so you think about that and then you realize, okay, so this is from a, uh, this is, this is a huge task for the systems that we're building and being in the product management creation space. I've been in tech for 15 years. It made me understand that we need to start building that platform where everybody has to be included. We have to bring everybody along. Just because somebody is a wheelchair user does not mean they cannot perform their, what, you know, with their talent. Right, with their brain. Just because someone is neurodivergent does not mean they're not smart. Because when we relegate people and fit them into a box, what happens is a community or a society where only a, um, a small portion of that community of society is carrying the work forward. And that's not going to benefit anyone. So we have to start thinking from that perspective. And that is something that I wake up every day to say, okay, how can we create a more inclusive society where everybody just gets to contribute their quota. And I wake up every day making that my, my, you know, something that drives me and an experience that makes me continue to do the work. We just want to see people first, respect everybody. Did, you know, dignity first before anything, right. When you see somebody on a wheelchair, recognize them and understand that just because they're wheelchair, just because they're on a wheelchair does not mean that they cannot contribute. So we have to respect and uh, you know, give, give everybody what they need to be.

Ademola Odewade: I love that. But at uh, what point did you realize that this is going to be your life's mission?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: That's a good question. So this is something I've always, so growing up, I've always just had a very strong conviction that I've always want to question systems. You know, I mentioned earlier, it's a, it's, it's been a part of me to ask questions, be curious, just not be fit into a box. And growing up, I mentioned that I, I used to ask my mom a lot of questions. If she says, oh, do this, I want to ask questions, I want to know why I'm doing it. So it's always been a part of me to just want a system or a, uh, society that is fair to everybody. And so now knowing what I know and being a neurodivergent myself and seeing what is going on, it's just a matter of, you know, now rather than later. This work has to start. This is something I have been doing in the background for years and just making sure that I'm advocating for equity at work with my team members and they will tell you that if everybody deserves a promotion or something, I always make, want to make sure to be the voice of reasoning there. So now making it official and just putting the platform out there is something that I feel like is solidifying the work that I've been doing in the background. But this is something that I have been doing long before I made Daughter Reveling an official movement.

Ademola Odewade: Interesting. You know, everybody have their motivation, right? You know, many people discover their purpose through pain, through observation or personal experience. Like, what would you say is the catalyst for you? What's the motivation for you?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think it's a mixture of both. I've seen, I've seen people who have been personal experience. I have seen, you know, I've seen someone reached out to me before and say, oh, you're, you're, you're, you have adhd. Does that mean you're, you know, there's something wrong with you. Right. And so the Work is educating people. And I've also seen the, the, the, I've also had experience with some of the people in our community where parents would reach out and say, oh, this is, I need help with this, I need support with this. So these, a combination of, this is definitely something that keeps me up at night to want to make sure to continue to serve the community that we have and to also make sure to continue to advocate for that community. So it's a good balance of both.

Ademola Odewade: You know, it's interesting that we both have similar backgrounds growing up in Nigeria. And when I think about it, I uh, wonder how I survived because I never even knew that I had ADHD until I was in my late 20s. And then, you know, when I look back I'm like, wow, you know, my chat GPT says something about me. It said, you are an unusually resilient person. And I think for me I found my, my, my own resilience through faith. You know, faith actually kept me going. Right. And when I think about it today, like I think about those people, you know, the so called smart ones, right, that always wanted to make me look stupid. Fast forward, where are they today? Right. And I just, I just laugh. You know, it's, it's crazy how, you know, a lot of people want to pull people down and yes, it's you. You know how our schools, even in Nigeria, uh, are when you don't know math, you say, oh, no, do rabbit.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Trust me, trust me. Yes, trust me. There are several stories. We work with educators as well and the organization, right? Because one of the things we're trying to do is to reform the educational uh, system in Nigeria such that it's not just rewarding just one site, one model of excellence, right. Like I mentioned earlier, if you didn't know maths, if you do not pass English, if you do not pass one science subject, you, you have to repeat the class. I've been through that. And I remember that was one of the worst period of my life. Because now you're suggesting that I retake a class even though I did well, exceptionally well in all other areas. But because of maths, right? Then you want to call and such a child. And we, and we wonder why our, a lot of people from our generation grew up with a lot of low self esteem and lack of confidence because we've been tagged slow and dumb and like you said, right? And then we go, we come to the western world and that follows you because now you are in meetings and you cannot speak properly because you've been Told that you don't know how to read or you're, or you don't even know how to interpret messages and things. So you're absolutely right. And, and that has to change. We, we have to make sure that we're moving away from that. We're recognizing everybody and their strengths.

Ademola Odewade: Interesting. You know, I think I, I grew up with a chip on my shoulder. Right. Because I don't know, my, my, my mom would say, uh, I think my parents always knew that I was, I think how, how, how did he, how did they describe me? Maybe like a rebel of some sorts. Right. My mom would say if the whole world was the voting for Donald Trump, I'll, uh, go and vote for Marco Rubio. Like, and for me, I've always, you know, loved being different from other people. He gets it. So I think that also kind of helped me and you know, loving a challenge. It was just math I wasn't good at. I was good at, you know, every other thing. Right. And of course my parents even tried, you know, they employed lesson teachers and um, the math scene was not my thing. But I'm grateful I found a way. Right. So like, what lessons from your upbringing continue to influence you today, especially in terms of your leadership style?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think as the res. So a couple of them. Number one is resiliency. We brought that up earlier. I think it's hard for you to grow up in Nigeria and not be resilient. It is. It's encrypted in our DNA. In my case, I'm very, very resilient. And the fact that I always just have to find a way out of every situation. My friends would say if you're thinking of any. But that is resourceful. It is. Yvonne. I can make something happen. If I think about it, I can make a whole wedding happen in two days if you, if you give me just about enough to make it work. And uh, another thing that I would say definitely has helped would be just my passion for advocacy. And you mentioned also not being a one narrow minded type of person. Just always curious enough to do my research. That has been very helpful and it's been instrumental. Being a people person certainly has helped. Just being overall ready to listen. I'm um, that person that people right from growing up. I'm the first child in my family. So just that need to want to cater to everybody around me and make sure everyone is good. Certainly has been very instrumental. So I would say those key things and that's been very helpful.

Ademola Odewade: Interesting. Uh, he just reminded me also, you know, about my upbringing, I think one thing that really helped me was the fact that my father had this massive library. I've always said this, and the ADHD mind is very curious. So I was reading a lot even before getting into university. Had, you know, read stuff on psychology, philosophy, you know, all of the social sciences. I was reading, you know, Nobel laureates, uh, books, you know, the likes of your Winston Churchill, your Bertrand Russell. So it made me a very, very vast, um, individual. Right. And you know, I had that episode with Dave Farrow, the guy who is a two time Guinness World record holder for memory. And I think, um, growing up also, like, there were some books that I saw in my father's library that helped me with like some memory hacks. Right. So I was able, would I say I was able to cheat my way through understanding concepts and, you know, passing exams. You know, my, my father used to, I remember like growing up, my father used to say, you're so forgetful. But I wonder how you pass exams.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: You learn very.

Ademola Odewade: Yeah, there is a wheel, there's a way, you know.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yes. You make it happen. I think after the first year of being told I had to take another class, like repeat the same class, I had to learn how my brain works. And that made me realize that I learned by teaching others. So if a subject, if I'm learning a subject, I have to teach it so that it ingrains in my brain. And so, yeah, we're very, very resourceful. And you have to, you figure that out when you have, you know, when you're ADHD and you feel like, okay, there has to be a way. So that's totally, that's totally smart.

Ademola Odewade: This is interesting because I also used to teach as well. And you know, I made money from teaching as well. I've taught a lot of chartered accountants. Like at some point, for some couple of years in my life, I was a lecturer at Top Not Learning Center. Right. It's the, it's the biggest ICANN and ACCA center in Abuja. Right. But thinking about it, the truth is you cannot gain mastery of something if you are unable to teach it. I, I think teaching is another level of mastery. Right. But like, what would you say are the biggest misconceptions that society still holds about disability and neurodivergence?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think the biggest conception is seeing the disability first before the person I mentioned earlier, just by not understanding enough that if a person is disabled, they're still a person. And so the biggest concept misconception here is that he's, uh, dyslexic and therefore he cannot contribute anything into intellectual to any conversation. That is totally wrong. So we have to move away from that. And another misconception is that the society seems to still think that we have to build the systems first and then add the people. As someone who is in the product, you know the IT, product management, uh, space. I always say you build the system around, you design the system around the people. Not design, not try to design first and then fit the people in there. So I think those are the, Those are the 2M misconceptions that I've seen. When you create, you're creating an application and then you think oh well I can, we can think about the users layer. No, we have to build a system and design a system that actually caters to the people. And so those are the two biggest misconceptions that I think. And I also think that. Oh yeah, another one is that people seem to think that when we talk about accessibility and inclusion they seem to think that accessibility automatically means inclusion automatically means accessibility. I can be included in the conversation but I may not have access to it. You can invite me to your party, right? Which is giving me, including me. But then if I'm a wheelchair user and you don't have ramp to enter the building, that's lack of accessibility. So now I have the invite but I don't have a way to go in and be included in the party. So I think those are the biggest misconceptions that I've seen working in the, in this, in the industry for sure.

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Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah.

Ademola Odewade: And ah, this is very, very important. Especially in Nigeria. I'll tell you something, I just remembered something. I remember there was my mom used to be a marriage counselor. She's a marriage counselor actually. Uh, she wrote the book the virtuous Woman and there was. Thank you. There's this guy she Was counseling and the guy used to come to our house. And I think one day she, she asked the man, like, how many kids do you have? Guess what? The guy said, I have three and a half. I'm like, excuse me, three and a half? Like, who is that half? Even thought the half maybe is a dead, you know, child, you see, trying to remember. And then he said, that half is a disabled child. Yo, this is how, um, terrible people can.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah, that's terrible. Yeah.

Ademola Odewade: So, like, what would you say are, uh, the barriers that, you know, neurodivergence individuals still face that other people don't see?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Thing I mentioned earlier, lack of access to the system. We face that a lot because again, now with the, uh, the lack of, the lack of, the lack of support is also very. It's also some. A barrier that we face. We. If you look at Nigeria as a, uh, as a country right now, parents, I, I can't tell you the number of messages because we do have a WhatsApp community where we cater to. Not just cater, but we've created a community where we're able to provide support to parents, educators and caregivers and then individuals with either disabilities, whether visual or non visual. And some of the conversations that I read in the group chat, it rocks me so much that I, it makes me want to. I get, I boil. You know what I mean? Like, I wake up really angry, but I also use that to pump that as, okay, this is why we must go on. I had a. I'm going to use this story. I have one. Somebody on the. In the community who said, well, you know, been deprived of my promotion for the past four years because one leg is shorter than the other because she was in an accident. And so it makes you, it makes you wonder, has she been contributing to the growth of the company? Yes. So things like that are, uh, some of the barriers we face where there's lack of understanding, there's lack of support, There is also lack of access to the system that I described earlier. It is one thing for us to have a system, but if the system is not inclusive for persons with disabilities or neurodivergent individuals, then it means we don't have that opportunity at all. And there's also the stigma, right, where people still think that they can pray ADHD away, they can pray autism away. There's, uh, a bunch of things. And you know, I can tell you that, uh, there's several, you know, there's several parents who wants to take their child to churches and fast and pray. And I'M not saying don't fast or pray. This is important. But while you're doing all of that, provide the necessary support. If you need to sign up for your child for speech therapy as soon as possible, go ahead and do that. So these are some of the barriers that we're seeing using Nigeria as, as a, uh, you know, as an example, for sure.

Ademola Odewade: You know, I was laughing because it felt, it felt like you were entering my garden. You were throwing stones at ah, me, because even my own Nigerian parents haven't gotten to terms with it. I think recently I was speaking with my father. You know, I told him that, like this something was because I'm an ADD individual, right? So I try to manage, you know, myself in certain ways. I guess what he said is that, please stop confessing something negative to yourself.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: There you go.

Ademola Odewade: You don't have ADHD in Jesus name.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: You see? Exactly. And it makes you wonder, okay, so how is that, you know? And, uh, and, and it's, it's very crazy because I've even heard people say, oh, I have depression and say, God forbid you will not have a depression in Jesus name. If the person is depressed, they are depressed. Everything cannot be put on Jesus. At some point we have to, you know, at some point we have to come to terms with what reality is, do our part, and then allow Jesus to take the will from wherever you stop, right? But we want to leave everything unto Jesus and leave it all to God. We're fasting and praying and pouring. A parent was even saying something about, uh, their papa gave them anointing or to pour. I'm like, really? Okay. I mean, I'm not gonna knock. I'm not gonna knock your belief because I'm a Christian as well. But at the end of the day, let's also get the right support. Some things are not gonna be prayed away. And I wish that we as a society recognize and realize that sooner rather than later.

Ademola Odewade: I think that is brilliant. Uh, I love for you to share a transformational story from somebody that has been impacted from your work.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Wow. This. So this. Actually I do. I have, I have quite a few. So the first one that stood out to me was a mother who saw one of the, one of the interviews that I did, and she followed the organization's page by just sending us a dm. And my team reached out and said, hey, Yvonne, there's this person who needs help. And so because of the message, it pretty much said, hi, please help me. Uh, my child is three, but he's not catching. He's not growing at the right developmental phase or stage that he should be. And we, ah, you know, these are some of the things that we, we, we would discuss, right? If you're calling your child's name at maybe six months, eight months, they should be able to answer at uh, maybe age maybe when they're like 12 months, they should be able to say certain wor. Maybe they're already walking, right? So if you're not seeing these spaces, then you probably need to look, seek for support and help. And so when she reached out, I told, you know, I told my uh, my partnership team, I said, well, I want to talk to her. Because the way she said help in capital letter with exclamation mark. I wanted to just talk to her. And so I gave her a call and she was like, ma, oh please. You know, I don't know. She mentioned the state where she is and she's mentioned how she's not been able to have access to anything. She doesn't even know what's going on. But she's ashamed because she feels, and the husband is already kind of putting the responsibility on her, that if the child is uh, almost three and he's not growing at the rate he should be, then it's her fault. So one of the things I did was to at least make her understand, to start to that mindset that it's not your fault and the fact that your child is not talking at this age does not mean they're broken. And so we had a bunch of, you know, we had a series of conversation, but one of the first thing we did was to make sure we're sending her to a speech therapist that we found for her in Lagos where we were able to at least connect her with this person who then said, well, okay, we'll schedule for you to come bring the child. Let's examine to even know what is going on. And so now she, you know, she mentioned that at least with the uh, with the therapist working with the child, he can at least answer his name when you call him. And he's trying to even say a couple of, you know, a couple of vowel sounds here and there compared to eight months ago when we, when she reached out to uh, us. So stories like that makes me feel really, it makes me feel really, it makes me feel good because when I think about, okay, this is why we're doing what we're doing, to make sure we're educating parents that if your child is not growing how they should be growing, it's not your fault. And that reminded me a lot about even my own mom and how we used to just. She felt solely responsible for. Why don't you. Why can't you pass maths? It's not that hard. Everybody in this house is good except for you. So I saw my. You know, I saw my mom in her and how she was struggling. And so stories like that certainly makes me feel good. I have some of the volunteers that have worked with the organization that would say, you know what? I have adhd. I used to think I was slow, but then they've seen how. They've seen the. They've seen me manage multiple companies and businesses at the same time. They've seen that I've, um. You know, I have a corporate job where I'm able to not just be at the, uh, at the low, you know, like a regular employee, but also a manager where I'm managing people. And it also gives them the courage to say, ma, you know what? I look forward to being that person too, someday. So stories like that makes you feel. You know, it makes you feel good. And, you know, there's a bunch of them. But that woman, definitely, it connects with my soul on a deeper level because of the shame and guilt that she was carrying based on what her husband made her believe.

Ademola Odewade: Amazing. Amazing. You know, uh, I'm glad you're a Yoruba person. And I remember a proverb they say, omotuba shipa lubingbe. Right. So only people who are open to help, you know, can get help. Africa.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah. So for us right now, the biggest. The biggest challenge we're facing right now is trying to hold systems that have been there long before even I was born. Right. Hold them, um, accountable, such that policies can be changed. So that's coming from the governmental side of things. And then also when you come. When you. Because think about it, we're reaching out to the national assembly and other government agencies to say, this is what we are working on. This is what we're doing. It is there. But a lot of states right now or, uh, even parastatos or institutions don't understand that the mindset, you know, that inclusion and accessibility is not us begging for you to respect somebody and give them access to what should be theirs in the first place. That is not charity. So to change our mindset is taking longer. You know, it's taking a bigger effort than we anticipated. So when you. When you write somebody, you know, I was having a meeting with somebody, and we told them that we. Because I'm also a, uh, disability and inclu I mean, an accessibility and inclusion consultant. So one of the things that we're working on as an organization is to go into review organizations policies when it comes to inclusion and accessibility. And so we had a conversation with that man. I'm not going to mention his name, just to kind of not put anybody out there, but we, we asked. So Nigeria committed to the United nations, has SDG 4, 8 and 10. And SDG, ah, 4 is pretty much talking about equal access to education. Right. And then you talk about 8 and 10 where we're basically all these three SDGs are saying everybody deserves access, everybody needs to do this. Nigeria committed to that. But today maybe only about five states have said, okay, we will commit to this with the country. And maybe five out of the 36 states in Nigeria. I don't think anybody's holding anybody accountable where we're saying, okay, every building must have ramps for easy access for wheelchair users. Every building must have, you know, an exit plan or just anything. And when we look at education as well, overall, long story short, uh, Kingdom says that trying to make all these changes and implement it and hold everybody, whether institutions, private organizations, individuals, you know, like you don't pray things away. Making this mindset shift is definitely a lot. And that's because we're, we're a system and a country that is already used to what we already know. So finding that, you know, implementing the change and the reform certainly has been one of the most difficult things we have encountered.

Ademola Odewade: Interesting. You know, when you were talking about the person you did not want to disclose their name. Funny thoughts.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah.

Ademola Odewade: Was intruding into my head. I was, I was interpreting it into Yoruba for you. You know, they say, have you ever heard Yoruba? People say that?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Exactly, you know, exactly. We left that meeting, but the whole gist of the conversation was he thought that doing wheelchair giveaways is, you know, it's, uh, it's something that should be charity or doing certain things. And so. But the, the entire conversation was, no, giving access to everybody should not be considered charity. It is basic human rights and needs. And we should be as a society understand that. Right. So, uh, yeah. Um, but yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna mention names. If he ever sees this, he'll be like that. This girl, there's a reason why. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Whoa. You're probably gonna sit in Tamiya, be like, this girl. This girl, she's still talking about me. But yeah, I do have to. Oh, my goodness.

Ademola Odewade: So, you know, you are in a space you know, that is centered around human impact. How do you measure success, you know, given the fact that, you know, your KPI is around human impact rather than financial outcome?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah. So two things I measure success by. Have learned to measure my success as a person, as an individual, by just holding myself accountable. And when I come back, my KPI is, have I been able to implement the polyou know, the movement, and have I been able to touch somebody the way that I anticipated when I set up this community that I'm building? Right. I look at the number of parents who come to us daily and say, can you please help connect us with therapist. Can you please connect me to a speech therapist or a doctor that can work with me? Or can you please. Or even from educators that can say, you know what? I feel seen and I feel heard because I have a student in my classroom who is not like every other student in the classroom. I, I, I, I look at the numbers of the way the community is growing, we're growing. I and I look at the number of people who randomly even join. We have a webinar coming up, and every time I open the app and I see the people that sign up to join the webinar, it makes me like, oh, wow, right? So things like that certainly, certainly gives me motivation, and that's how I'm able to record the success. We know that if you are in the, if you're in the human, in this human space, advocacy space, money is not something. If you're in need for the money, then you're in the wrong business. So it's the number of lives that we'll be able to touch is the number of people, that number of families that are able to get the right education so that they can provide the right support to either their family or loved ones or children. Those numbers are the key things that we look at with the increasing amount of people that have joined our community. Absolutely. It gives me joy, and that's how I track success. I don't go by how fast I go by, are we doing, Are, uh, we doing it the right way? And every time I, every time I meet with my team, we talk about this. Have we, every event or anything that we do, it has to be centered around the community, has to directly benefit from that. And when we're able to do that, it makes me feel good that we're on the right track.

Ademola Odewade: Hey, amazing stuff. And of course, I really appreciate the work that you guys are doing and, you know, but given the experience both in Nigeria and in the Western world, I, uh, see that a lot of organizations just pay leave service to the concept of diversity inclusion. And for a lot of organizations it's just a documentation. But what would you say that true inclusion actually looks like in public facing institutions like workplaces, schools, communities? What does true inclusion really look like?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah. So in my years of experience and at least eight of that been in the leadership position, one of the key things that I always advocate for in every room is that inclusion is not by t is not just ticking off the box. It is one thing for you to bring people on board, but let's bring people on board because they have the talent. Inclusion means you're recognizing somebody. Uh, whether we're talking about dei, it means we're recognizing somebody for their talent, not because I need to show that. And one of the, and this again, these are uh, conversations with organizations and their culture. Right. You're bringing somebody on because they're smart, because you see results, not the process. So inclusion would mean that it would look like you recruiting and employing people, not because they don't come out for happy hour. A lot of people have social anxiety and they don't come out right. They don't like interacting with people. But are they good at their job? Absolutely. Uh, inclusion would look like giving everybody, rewarding everybody that has done a good job, not a, uh, one way of rewarding work. We know that being in the, being in the corporate industry, we, I know that there are certain ways where everybody, every manager preaches visibility. Visibility. And I always tell my team this. If you're visible, your work is showing. To me, visibility means your work is showing, which means you are included. And when the time comes for us to have conversations around your pay increase or your uh, or your promotion, that's the, that's where the work is coming in. So I say this to say that when we're talking about inclusion and accessibility, people in general should be rewarded for their work. Not because they're not coming out, not because they're not talking a lot in meetings, not because they have, huh. We have to give them accommodations. And now they're working from home. So inclusion and accessibility would also mean that we're not using a one, one way approach to employ people. I've seen people being, being left behind because they're not looking at the interviewer directly in the face. But everybody cannot look at you eye to eye. But am I answering the question the way I should be? So when I talk to leadership and when I go to all this consulting and you know, trainings, I Always want to make sure to highlight these things. Let's not. Let's move away from the one way of recognizing, uh, and just saying inclusion and accessibility because we want to check off the box. We have to move away from that performative inclusion and accessibility and actually do the work by recognizing that everybody is not going to be the same. And we all need. Whether you're, whether you have a new disability or not, whether you're neurodivergent or even neurotypical, we need to understand everybody works differently. That is what inclusion and accessibility.

Ademola Odewade: There are organizations that have good intentions but are still not getting it right. So what would you say are, uh, the biggest mistakes that executives make when they are trying to build inclusive organizations?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: The biggest mistake is checking off inclusion and accessibility as just another thing to say, oh, we are very diverse and we are inclusive. And then you employ one person to check that box. That is a huge mistake. We're leaving a lot of talents behind. Another biggest mistake is executives leaving HR to, oh, that's an HR thing. No, it is not an HR thing. Executives actually make up the culture of an organization. We have to move away from. We have to reward just this one way. We have to be more results driven rather than we're taking off numbers.

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Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think we thrive in a lot of places where the systems just allows us to be ourselves without the restrictions.

Ademola Odewade: Wow. Uh, without the restrictions. Very, very important keyword there. Right. But, uh, you know something, right? Some of the, some of the, would I say, attributes with neurodivergent people, especially adhd, you know, look at creative problem solving, hyper focus. I think you touched the hyper focus. Right. And pattern recognition.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah.

Ademola Odewade: Right. So what other overlooked strengths of, uh, neurodivergent people have you been able to recognize in the course of your work?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I mentioned the critical thinking. Right. The critical thinking is certainly, it's certainly one thing that I think has stood out to me, especially working with people in this, in this, uh, community, your ability to just be able to, you know, because a lot of us might process. It might seem like we process information. A lot of neurodivergent might seem like they're not processing information right there and then. But then because we have that delayed response where it might take you a whole day and you wake up in the middle of the night and you're like, wait a minute, this doesn't look right. And then the, your ability to be able to focus comes in and now you have to, you know, you have to do all the analysis. So I think critical thinking does, certainly comes in there. The, the idea is for us to. And I know I tell people this all the time. We're not trying to romanticize being a neurodivergent because a lot of times people say you're just trying to romanticize it, but that's not the idea. The idea is to make sure that we are, uh, we're recognizing the gift and the talent where it is. Right. So I would say critical thinking.

Ademola Odewade: So there's something I always call the elephant in the room, and that is AI First. AI is reshaping everything and anything in this agent time. And I get accused for a lot of things because my initials are A.I. myself. So, uh, how do you think A.I. and you know, the emerging, uh, technologies can help advance accessibility and inclusion.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think that we are already seeing how, um, AI can be very instrumental to inclusion and accessibility, especially when you look at right now, we have tools that can translate for you if you are, you know, if you don't understand the language, right? And so that's another thing. When we talk about inclusion and accessibility, you don't even have to be, you don't even have to be a person with disability before you need access to something. If I go to Italy right now, there are applications that I can even AirPods that I can put in my ears, and it translates the language to me directly. That is accessibility, that is inclusion. And so when we talk about tools and how they can be very instrumental when it comes to inclusion and access, I think it would be making sure that we are considering again, accessibility and inclusion. From the point of design, accessibility and inclusion should not be an afterthought. It should be something that we're thinking, okay, we're creating something. This is what we need. And so it should never be a, uh, phase two or phase three of your project. It should be at the design stage when you are creating something. I also think that AI would be very beneficial to the, you know, to everybody if we just are able to eliminate the bias when we are creating the tool. Because as powerful as AI is, it still needs people to train it to do the work. So when we train it to be inclusive and give access to people that it should give access to, then yes, it's going to do the work. So the making sure that we are training our AI to be more inclusive and grant access to when, you know, to everyone is going to be very key. When we're talking about inclusive or just overall tools that can help in future, if properly trained and well tamed and well designed, then absolutely it would be, you know, it's already one of the best innovations and it has the potential to even do more.

Ademola Odewade: I think that that is a brilliant take, but, uh, going diving off tangent a little bit, right? You know, your example of the trip to Italy reminded me of my trip to Lithuania. When I went to Lithuania, I had to use, uh, Google Translate, right, to speak with, uh, an Uber driver who took me somewhere. But damn, it was, it was a stressful conversation. You know, you speak it to the tool, the two translates it to him, he speaks back into it. And I was lost to the video a little bit about, you know, at least we were able to use the tool.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: But, you know, think about it, because a lot of times it was a

Ademola Odewade: funny experience, but, you know, like, it

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: just reminds me, you know, when I

Ademola Odewade: think about subject, technology can help. Did you talk about subtitles Yes, I

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: was talking about, I said a lot of the tools that we use now are tools that were created for maybe to help persons with disabilities. Think about Velcro, right? Like when you add Velcro to your shoes or your bag or anything. Those were originally created to be assistive tools or innovations for persons who could not use, you know, who have mobility issues. You talk about subtitles. Subtitles were, you know, were created for persons that are hard of hearing, which means they're able to watch movie and also read the subtitling. But now, uh, Eczema is unpredictable, but

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Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: watch movie without subtitles. I'm going to be gender. I'm going to be lost. So think about all these innovations and I think that again I mentioned earlier, these are ways that everybody can benefit from accessibility and inclusion.

Ademola Odewade: What future trends do you believe will shape disability rights and neurodiversity advocacy over the next, uh, decade? You know, we're looking at the intersection of policy, technology and cultural shift that will define the next era of inclusion.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think we mentioned one of the trends that I think will certainly shape the future would be just people being more, be more receptive to, to just be able to come out to say, you know what, I'm neurodivergent. And so what? And using myself as an example, I did an interview with a TV station in Nigeria and somebody reached out to me and said, oh, wow, you're a, you have adhd. You know, maybe you should stop saying that so that people don't think you're slow. And I'm like, I don't get it. I don't understand. So one of the trends that I think will shape the future in this case would be just people being, being, uh, properly educated to understand that being neurodivergent does not mean you, you're not smart. Also, more importantly, when it comes to policy and advocacy to be able to, especially for Nigeria, to be able to restructure our educational system such that it is more inclusive. And rather than reward one one way of excellence, we're able to celebrate every child's brilliance. To also make sure that our, uh, society is more inclusive and more kind to. To persons with disability. Just overall dignity. I think those will certainly be very, very instrumental. Another thing for sure would be just people coming out now to speak out more and owning. Whether you are physically disabled or non. Vis. Non visible people are owning it more. And I think those will help us shape the policies and advocacy work in future.

Ademola Odewade: Amazing, uh, stuff. I love that. And of course, I think my biggest takeaway from what you have just said is people learning to accept themselves. And I face the same thing as well. When I tell people I have adhd, they're like, and so what? Like my body of work speaks for itself. You know, I always tell people being normal is overrated. You understand? Like, come on, I've got the chip on my shoulder like you. That is normal. What. Tell me what you've been able to stack up versus me that is even abnormal.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Exactly. That is right. That. That is the conversation right there. You know, when people ask me, how do you do? How do you have much. Because, uh, Aside my regular 9 to 5, I have a, you know, I have a coaching, you know, I do coaching on the side. And I also have the advocacy side of things. And I also have other, you know, other ventures. And so when I get asked, I'm like, well, I owe it to my. My superpower to be able to uness my gift and know that every time I hit that spot where I feel like going and going, I just dump it into my work and my businesses. So. Absolutely, you're right on that.

Ademola Odewade: Tristan. Let me, Let me encroach into your personal life right now, right? As ADHD individuals, it's very important that you protect your energy. Right? And one way that I do it is my phone is permanently on dnd. Do you know this therapy? And a lot of people are upset with me about that. Right. But, you know, even you added advocacy on top of it, which can be, you know, emotionally draining. So how do you protect your energy? How do you maintain your resilience, Effy?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: So that's a good question right there. One of the questions that, uh, One of the things that. Not question. One of the, One of the things that I always like to express to people is, you know, especially for somebody like myself who seemed like, oh, she has it all going. She has it all together because that's what you see on the social media. But there are times on the back end where I'm burnt out and I'm tired. At least I used to be that person. But I've also come to realize that I'm, um, able to put into the work what I have left in me. And I always like to use the analogy of having two. You know, if you're. If you're a, uh, lantern, then you have two lanterns. If yours is burning low on gas, you cannot pour back into the community that you're serving or anything that you're doing at all. So that means I always have to recharge myself in order to be able to power what I have going on. And that, for me, lately, has been just being able to take time to reconnect with myself, set healthy boundaries to where my team, if we have to have meetings, if it is urgent, let me know, but send a text first. Don't just call and blow my phone, because now you're stressing me, and it's adding to whatever, you know, level of anxiety that I'm going on with a thousand other things that I have going on. So setting that healthy boundaries and knowing when to dial it back and connect with myself has been very, very instrumental. So those will be the. Those would be the key things for me, at least, that I've been able to do. Initially, I didn't have boundaries because a lot of my team members are. They are scattered. I have team members in. In Scotland, I have in Canada, a, uh, majority of them in Nigeria, which means we have crazy time zones. Let's even say Scotland and Nigeria. It's almost similar. Canada and us Is almost similar, but everybody wanting to Nigeria will wake up before us and they start to leave. You know, we have a webinar coming up right now, and they will blow up your. Oh, what about the graphics? So what about this? So what about the. The speaker, the panelists? I just learned to turn off the silence. You know, I don't see the notification until I go into the app, and I. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. If it is urgent, give me a call directly. But if you're thinking I'm gonna go into, uh, Notion or Trello or WhatsApp just because we know I'm not. I mean, I give back to the community, but I also have to stay charged in order to continue to give back. Right. So that has been very instrumental in how I connect with myself.

Ademola Odewade: I love that. It reminds me of something my father Used to tell me growing up, he used to say, you cannot empower others if you don't empower yourself first.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: That's it. That's. That's it. That is it.

Ademola Odewade: Well, uh, so in terms of the mindset, right, because the philosophy of this podcast basically is mindset, skill set, tool set. So believe that the mindset is the most important thing when collaborating with people, right? The first thing to evaluate is the mindset before the skill set, because mindset is the most difficult thing to teach a person. Skills can be easily taught, you know, and of course you can empower people with the right tool set, right? So the philosophy is mindset, skill set, tool set. What mindset shift would you say has actually helped you to navigate difficult seasons in your journey? Trust me, I, I, I've been there, done that, and I know that you have also been there, done that, and I, uh, love for you to inspire people. So. But what are those internal transformations that, you know, made the external impact possible?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: It's, it's, I have a couple of them, but the key one for me is learning to understand my journey and understand that it's not going to be the same as everybody else's around me. I have a couple of friends or, you know, people in my network that are also founders. They're doing their thing, and, you know, to them, they're moving at a pace, you know, maybe at a point I'm like, why am I not doing that? Why am I not there? But having that understanding and the mindset that, that their journey is always not gonna look like mine. We're doing different things, right? It's very, very important, because as long as I'm able to find myself on the path that I've set for the community, it doesn't have to be, you know, I already know we're not, we're not in this business for money. So, uh, if anything, you know, we're putting more into it and so understanding that mindset shift. And one analogy that I always used to express to my team members every time they send me something like, oh, ma, we want you to go on this podcast, or we want you to go to this. Because this friend, I always tell them, if it doesn't align with the work we're doing, if it doesn't directly serve the community we're serving, we don't have to do it just because somebody else is doing it. The analogy for me here is I always consider when you're on a treadmill and you are, uh, using, or you are using a compass, if you're on a treadmill, you can go a thousand miles per hour if your feet allows you to do that, which means you can sprint, you know, you can sprint as fast as possible, you're walking, and by the end of your run on the treadmill, it's probably gonna tell you you've been able to run a 10k mile in 10 minutes if you're able to do so. So some people's journey might look like that, but for me, it, uh, my journey could look like I have a compass and now I have to take a stop, look at what direction is telling me to go. And so it means that it might take us in different direction, but at every point we may have to stop to look at the compass and either go left or right. I mean, it's not about the speed, it's about the progress that we're making. And so as long as we're able to do that, I'm very comfortable with that mindset. And so for me, those would be the key mindset that I have when it comes to anything that I'm doing. It's always about the progress, not about the speed. And then my journey is not going to look like everybody else's. And the same. Everyone else's journey is not going to look like mine as well. Right. So that would fit yourself.

Ademola Odewade: I love that. And of course, in your body say

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: exactly. There you go. See that? That's it right there. That is very, very important.

Ademola Odewade: Spot on. You know, but there are moments where you feel doubt, right? Imposter syndrome. And for me, I think one thing that has always helped me is that faith. I can do all things with Christ. That strengthens me. But like, have there been moments where you, you wanted to quit, you know, or you just kept moving forward? Because every great leader has actually faced, you know, that situation. What keeps you going?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Oh, yeah, absolutely. There. There have been moments. Not just a moment, there've been moments where I would wake up, like, how did I get here? Lord, why did I put this on myself? But then I go back to thinking about the, uh, the entire vision and the mission is bigger than just me. When I started this foundation, I didn't. I started alone, right? And it was just me making my post and doing things that I can do. But now I have a team of over 25 people that I've been able to say, I will be a part of this organization. And so I think about that and I think about how big we're getting, and it makes me like, okay, I mean, look, at it. I'm on your podcast today. Right. It makes me. Things like this makes me connect to why we do what we do, and the vision is beyond me. And when I think about parents who we've been able to help, either by connecting them to professionals that can help their children, or even individuals, whether persons with disabilities or neurodivergent individuals, where we're able to create a safe space for them where people can share. Oh, this is the supplements I'm using for my child. Oh, this is the same speech therapies that I'm using for my child to be able to bring people together. When you look at that, on days where I'm at my lowest, I think about the mission and what we're doing, and it makes me feel great. And it keeps me energized, uh, to where I am, like, okay, I have an amazing group, I have an amazing team. We're building an amazing community, and I see the work and things like that keeps me motivated. But do I have moments where I want to take my wig off on a drive home? Absolutely. Where it's like, okay, just, Jesus, take the wheel. Yes, I do. But, you know, about the work. And it's like, okay, well, here we are. So. Absolutely.

Ademola Odewade: Wow. It's interesting. You know, I always tell people something that the mind of an ADHD person is like a battlefield. Like, you don't know how many grenades, how many bombs are, you know, going off, and people don't tend to understand, like, if, you know, you know. Absolutely. Also, I think it comes with mood swings as well. Right. But I found a way to manage

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: my own mood swings.

Ademola Odewade: How did you find a way to manage yours?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I'm not an expert, but I. Mood swing. So. Mood swing. Mood swing is not something that I have personally experienced, but do I have moments where I feel overwhelmed? Because I have, you know, like, uh, like a squirrel has stuffed a lot into my mouth and I can't chew it at once. Absolutely. Where I'm like, okay, now you have to spit it out and take it one at a time. I have those moments where it's like, how did I. Why am I doing a thousand things at a time? And in moments like that, I take a step back and I see. You know, we see that even on, uh, a day to day. So, for example, if I'm run. If I'm doing things around the house because I'm energetic in that moment, you can see me try to, like, rush through it, but then I catch myself and it's like, okay, pause, relax. You there's no, there's no crazy deadlines here. But that's also because the brain has conditioned me to want to get a lot done in that moment where I have that bust of energy. So those will be some of the things that I experienced. And so when I'm rushing through and you see me trying to rumble through things, I just like, okay, calm down, take a step back and just filter through things and do it. Nobody's chasing you. Right. Just take it, take a dial back. So I certainly experienced that.

Ademola Odewade: Interesting. And you know, there are a lot of times when the pathway feels unclear. And of course you need to use that inner compass that guides decisions. So what would you say has been the role of faith, purpose and personal philosophy in your life?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I would say faith because again, like you said, the moral compass. Right. And it doesn't matter what religion you are, because I believe that as long as you have faith, then your moral compass should still be in, uh, it should still be intact where you understand that we need to be fair to everybody, we need to respect everyone, we need to be kind to people, we need to show dignity to people. You need to render help when it's needed. So that has been very, very instrumental. And of course we have the. I think you mentioned my resilience. Right, Resilience. Because there are days you're gonna wake up, you're tired, but when you look at the work you're doing, it just. I always like to say that being Nigerian, resilience with, with is some of the most resilient people that I've ever met. And we make things happen. So that has been very instrumental to how far you know myself as a person. And even the work that I do has been able to grow over the last couple of months.

Ademola Odewade: Interesting. You know, being a teacher, I love the fact that you're also a teacher as well. Right. But I feel like being a teacher is a very smart way to be a student because, yes, the best teachers are, uh, the best learners. So what would you say that, that the people that you serve have actually taught you, especially in terms of courage and perseverance.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yes, this is a good one. So I, I told you so I'll, uh, give you an example. So one of the, one of the students who joined our community from one of the events that we had in Lagos. And I've, I've always been very shy to. I've never been a camera facing person. You're gonna see pictures, but I would never do like a talking video. And so she brought up a conversation in the group chat where she was talking about, oh, how she's just, she's always struggled with anxiety as a result of her undiagnosed adhd. But now that she knows better, she's putting herself out there more. And one of the vision that she has for herself was to be able to be a content creator. And so she gave a few pointers on how to, how she's been able to overcome that fear of talking to the camera. And I read through it, I was like, wait, why have I not been doing that? But then that's also the beautiful mind of the community that we serve. When you look at how resourceful we are m. You look at how resilient the, the community is. You know, being a person with whether visible or non visible disability, the barriers are already there because you're having to walk through and navigate through a system that was not created with you. And so the resilience is something that keeps you being on top. And now you're seeing more and more people. Be very loud, be very open and vocal about this is who I am and you're going to respect me. So those are people or this is who I am. You're going to hear me, you're going to hear what I have to say, you're going to acknowledge me. And so when I look at the community and it just makes me so proud and so happy, like, yes, let's go. You know what I mean? Because now there's more and more people owning it and uh, recognizing their person first. I need you to see my brain. I need you to see me as a person and not my disability or what the system or society has said I should be. And so things like that has certainly been very, very, uh, instrumental even for me. And how I learned now with the girl that, you know, that I mentioned earlier, I'm doing more talking videos now because I'm putting myself out there more to be able to connect with the people. Even though that's something you could never. Even if my, even if my head was at uh, the stake board, like we're chopping it off, talk to the camera, like just go ahead and cut it off. But now with the, you know, with the skills and the, the, the feedback that she shared, I'm like, okay, maybe I should do that first. And so what I do now is every time I want to talk to the camera, I call my sister. We charge each other because she said she does something where she calls somebody and then they charge her up and then they can get off the phone and she just continue to talk to the camera like she's talking to them. Which has also been a, uh, you know, a very helpful technique for me as well. So you learn a lot from this before and it might, it makes you wonder, okay, you know what? We, uh, you know, it's an amazing mind and uh, and things like this just. I learned a lot from the, you know, from the community.

Ademola Odewade: This is really amazing. It's amazing. And of course, you know, I want to talk about the evolution of your belief over time because I tell people you are not your ideas. Right. And something I appreciate about myself is the fact that I am very, very open to learning. Right. And sometimes you might hold an idea or belief. Last year, and this year it has changed. But, uh, a lot of people want to stick to their beliefs or the ideas. They would even probably kill to just hold on to something to force it to be true. You cannot force things to be true. So when it comes to you, right, Given your growth, journey and um, evolution, what is one belief that you once held strongly that has completely changed over time?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think that belief would be that I can stay in the, in the back end, outsidelines and make a lot of difference. That for me, I've never. And it kind of, it goes back to the, you know, to the conversation we had earlier about being too shy or too afraid to put myself out there because I've always felt, no, I don't need to talk to the camera. I'm going to write what I have to write and you would understand. But now, over the past year or two, I'm understanding the power of connecting to humans and talking to them. And that means people want to hear from you and they want to hear your voice. I'll give you an example of the organizations page. We started off with just posting graphics and expressing things. And then I challenged the team. I said, well, you know what? Because this, we have a community that we serve and I want this to be more human or I want our page to be more human oriented rather than just graphics and graphics and graphics. And I told them where everybody's going to start talking. I didn't think I was going to be doing the talking because I just wanted them to go out and do more research, connect to the community, get their interviews and do all of that. But I realized that even just a video of myself talking to the community and thanking them for coming out, it performed well than a lot of the content that I have on my own page where I just wrote things right? So that Belief is certainly changing, in my opinion, to where you can make a lot of difference. But if you have to challenge yourself to add your voice to, uh, an already ongoing conversation, you may not think that it's going to be loud, but you have to try it first. And so if you have something and you think, oh, well, everybody's already making noise and, you know, they're already talking about it, why should I talk? No, you never know because your voice might make the difference. Think about a, uh, choir singing. If somebody's singing alto, treble soprano, and the, uh, alto person removes the, you know, removes the voice or stop singing, you're going to tell, right? And so that's the belief that I always like to think that, okay, well, just see your voice as adding flavor to the ongoing conversation. So that belief has changed over the, over time for sure.

Ademola Odewade: And of course, you know, uh, Brandon, disability, credibility, authority, uh, at the heart of, you know, the business of, you know, my team, my company. And the truth is, visibility actually helps to create credibility and credibility helps to create authority. So I think it's a great way to segue to, you know, the next question that I have for you. So basically, in a nutshell, like, what would you say that visibility, personal branding has done, you know, to help, you know, take your platform to the next level and take yourself to the next level? Because a lot of people are caught up in that box of I'll let my work speak for me. Right. You are the big sister right now. So I want you to, to advise people listening to us. We, our audience is predominantly, uh, comprised of, uh, career professionals and entrepreneurs. So, yeah, what is the importance of, uh, visibility, credibility, and building a personal brand?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Okay, so I always say this because I also have a branding agency. And so when people talk about, oh, I want to have the, uh, uh, you know, a great photo shoot to represent my brand. And I tell them what about you as a brand? So your, your branding goes beyond your picture and what else you put on your social media platform. Branding, it's about, like you said, being an authority in the space that you have found yourself. And that comes with. There's something called proof of work. If you're doing the work, you speak your truth, you speak on it, people will find you because now you're being recognized as, uh, an authority in that space. And so I'll use myself as an example. I have been doing this advocacy work for a minute, but I never put, I never thought to put back into the branding where we're doing more media appearances. I Never thought, oh, we need to invite media stations to cover the work that we're doing. And so what that meant was I was doing everything. I was going, you know, just go on and address people and speak, but then that's me. However, when it came time to partner with people or even show people to believe in my dream, it became a question of, okay, what, what have you done? I go to several partnership meetings where we want to work with an organization. Oh, m. Well, can we see some of the work that we. You've done in this space? So there has to be the proof of work there because that's how you earn, uh, your notoriety and your credibility. And so when people talk about branding, I always tell them the pictures are great. A good social media management team is, is great, actually. However, the work in itself has to speak. You can make it look, you can make everything look glamorous on social media. But if people work with you and your work does not speak for itself and you're not positioning yourself as an authority in that space, they're not coming back to work with you. So when you think of your branding, put in as much as you do into the work and let that build trust with your community. Think about building community first. You're not. If you're trying to sell something, there's a reason why influencers are very quick to sell courses, very quick to sell things. Now, do you know why that is? Because they have a community. So don't focus on, oh, I need to be on social media. No, focus on connecting with your social media. Even with AI now writing scripts for everybody, there's a reason why more and more content that connects with people, there's a reason why people are focusing on storytelling content. Do you know why? Because AI cannot write your story the way you are going to tell your story. I can tell you my story, but If I tell ChatGPT or Claude or Perplexity to write my story, I'm pretty sure there will be lapses there. And so if I read, uh, ChatGPT story back to you and then I tell you my own story, there are emotions and things that you're going to connect with when I tell you rather than what AI is going to tell you. Correct. And so when I tell people about branding, I always tell them, find the soul of your brand and build a community around that. And then the work, let it speak for itself. When you build a community, your work speaks for itself. The pictures and the social media will do the rest for you. But a good picture and a good you know, Instagram without the work and a soul, you're. You're. You're not. You're not off to a great start, unfortunately.

Ademola Odewade: I, uh, know lifestyle. I appreciate that. And of course, you know, speaking of the story, you're reminding me of this kid's song, uh, they Know My story.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Exactly. You know what I mean? That's one of the. That's one of his, you know, songs that everybody still connects with till date. Right. And so it makes you understand the power of people and relatability and connection.

Ademola Odewade: And of course, you know, I very, very much appreciate authenticity. I think authenticity is very important. And of course, that. Let's not forget how I discovered you. Right. I think one of the things that I really appreciated about you was your raw authenticity. And I reached out to my friend and said, no, I will speak with her.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: See what I'm saying? Yeah. Because it's right there. And so. Absolutely, I appreciate that.

Ademola Odewade: So let's talk about the future of Africa. Like, what's. What do you see changing in your space? Right. And, you know, you have the platform now. Please advise government fund on the right thing to do.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Okay. I think. You know what? I don't think I know. There would have to come a time where Africa will have to understand that we are costing ourselves a lot with leaving people behind and making accessibility and inclusion an afterthought. And I'll give you an example. Coming from Nigeria, a lot of people will tell you about the Jack Ma. We all know that. You and I know that we know the japa. And so what that is doing is causing a brain dump in the community in Nigeria right now. Because if you're a doctor, if you're a nurse, if you're an engineer, whatever you are, everybody wants to go to countries or places that gives them better opportunity. And so at this point, a huge percentage of the people that can contribute to the growth of Nigeria or Africa in general, we're finding our ways out of there. And then the remaining. Right. And then the remaining portion of the community that we have, you're segregating and limiting them by saying, oh, you have a physical disability so you can contribute to the community or society. Oh, you have dyslexia. You cannot be anything worth record to reckon with, or you are adhd, so that means you're slow, or you cannot be smart. And so we're not going to give you, uh, you know, this is not something. So I'm trying to paint a picture here. If you're not catching the drift. The drift here is we cannot afford to leave anybody behind because it's going to cost us heavily with the brain dump, heavily happening with people just migrating and leaving. You can't. And this is not even for just Nigeria, Africa alone. This is for any country. There's a reason why if you go to western, western countries that already understand and they were able to catch on to inclusion and accessibility, there's a reason why they're moving forward. Because a, uh, CEO of an organization can be somebody on a wheelchair, but that's because they've recognized that he knows what he is doing and he can move the organization forward. In a country like Nigeria, you probably, Nigeria wants you to be on the streets begging because you're on the wheelchair, right? And so what happens to that person's mind and their talent and what they can give back? So my advice to, uh, to the future of Nigeria. And that's why we're doing the work that we're doing to make sure that we're hold holding policy. I mean agencies, whether private organizations or governmental organizations, we're holding them accountable and to make sure that they're seeing that inclusion and accessibility is not a charity, it is human rights. And the earlier you understand it and get on board with that, the better for everybody. In Nigeria right now, it's very hard for you to see anyone with physical disability to run for any political office. Are you saying that they cannot give back or they cannot contribute? Why do I. Why does it have to be only physically able bodies that can run for offices? What happens to every other portion of the community and society? And so we want going, you know, in the future. My vision and hopefully the goal is to be able to make sure that we're having conversations around these things to make sure that we are making sure there's accountability. Right. If you promise. Like I mentioned earlier, the SDG 4, 8 and 5, I mean 8 and 10 is something that Nigeria committed to over 10, 15 years ago. But so far today, uh, you know, we're doing, the policies are there, but they're not being enacted because nobody's enforcing it to make sure that this is followed through. So the vision for this organization and you know, the community is to make sure that we are ensuring that these policies are being thought through, they're being followed through, there's accountability and that we are not leaving everyone, anyone behind and building a more inclusive and accessible society.

Ademola Odewade: I think that that is amazingly brilliant, actually. That is thoroughly brilliant and you're welcome. You touched on dyslexia, right? My ADHD mind Yeah. Was wandering around, you know, I have, I have a problem with that word. I feel like whoever invented the word dyslexia is a very wicked person. Number. What? It's difficult to pronounce. It's difficult to spell, and, uh, it is a word used to describe people that have difficulties with spelling. Come on. Why?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I know. I, I, you know, it's. It's funny you brought that up because it's like, how do you, how do you come up with this word? And then, you know, only for people to. ADHD is easier to describe or write. You know, if you say, oh, I have adhd, I have add, right? And then you get to dyslexia, it's like, why can't you switch that around? So I totally understand what you're saying. Wow.

Ademola Odewade: Uh, and, okay. I have a problem with certain people that tend to use disabilities or neurodivergence as an excuse to act in a stupid way. Just like, you know, we find some people who will say, because I'm a certain star sign, so I'm gonna act in, you know, this certain way. Right. I, uh, want you to quickly talk on, you know, people accepting themselves. Right. But holding themselves to, um, would I say excellence. Standards of excellence. Right. The fact that you're neurodivergent does not mean you're a stupid person. Right. It's not an excuse for you to give up in life or to feel sorry for yourself. Right. You should rather see that as a superpower. So I'd like for you to quickly touch on that.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: So that is a very, very, you know, sensitive topic. Because as much as I, you know, and I'm going to talk on it, because I know that I. Growing up, I was described as a lot of things, like you said, uh, being difficult, being a yapper. Like, you know, you talk too much or, you know, and again, at the point, at that point, it makes sense to me, right? You can be described as being lazy. Oh, your house is all over the place. What happened? It's like, oh, I have adhd. And so it's like, well, you're just gonna leave all your clothes on the floor because you were looking for a, you know, a pant, and now that you're. You found a shirt or the denim and everything else is all over the floor. We, I think we all experience that. But I also think also that it, it comes with just setting up a vision for yourself and what you see for yourself as some. I, I'm going to use myself as an example. I have come up with A system that works for me. And I, I don't like to enforce it or impose it on everybody else because we're all at a different space in our journeys. And so, which means what my ADHD looks like may be different from what someone else's look like. Um, my best friend, she has adhd and what that means for her is she can have moments where she's low and I'm high, you know, and then we have to kind of balance each other out. So it's not going to look the same for everyone. But what I always challenge everyone, even people in the community, is you kind of have to visualize what you want for yourself and go for it. But if you don't feel like you're in a space where you can go for it, then reach for support when you're able to do so. Do I think that it is, you know, do I think that people use that a lot as an excuse where it's like, oh, your house is all over the place. Why is it, why is it scattered? And then you say, well, I have adhd. Yeah, but then it becomes a problem if your house is all over the place. 365 days a year, there are moments you're going to have your house tidy and put together, but it should never be something that you're using, uh, as an excuse. But who knows, you know, but who's to say? I'm not, I'm not the police here. I'm not going to say, oh, don't use that as an excuse. But I certainly encourage the people that I work with, even people that I coach when it comes to standard career coaching, where they say, well, I don't know, I feel confused. I want to do other things. And I always tell them, just take a moment and find yourself back. Do you see yourself? And it's like, oh, it's my adhd. I'm getting bored of the job. Okay, well, I, I get it, but do you have bills to pay? Don't use ADHD as an excuse to quit your job. If you need to keep a job, we, you know, I promise you, I wake up almost every some days. I'm like, oh, I just want to quit because I'm either overwhelmed or tired. But then I know that it's my adhd and so I ring it back in like, ok, calm down. You have, you know, we need to be. So again, I, I'd say if I leave you with anything is that I'm not a police on that. But I certainly hope that everyone wants Better for themselves depends on where they are at with their mental health.

Ademola Odewade: I love that, uh, you know, everybody's at different phases in their growth journey. But when it's all said and done, what do you. What do you want your legacy to be?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: My. I want my legacy to be that when people think about me and just as again, myself as a brand now, I want them to say, well, she did her best when she was able to fight for accessibility, inclusion, even where we never thought we would listen to. I want the foundation's legacy to be that where we're able to create a world where people don't have to fight before they are respected. People don't have to fight before they're given access. It just comes as a. As a part of the system design, not an afterthought. That's what I want my legacy to be.

Ademola Odewade: Amazing. So I have a tradition on the podcast right before I run you through the quick Fire round questions.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Okay.

Ademola Odewade: You need to tell me somebody whose work you respect, you know, you respect their body of work, and they, uh, are highly resourceful that you would invite to feature on the podcast. So what name is on your lips?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: That's a. Ah, good question. I have quite a few, actually, right now. I think right now. And I say I have quite a few because I have pockets of, you know, again, I'm in the coaching area. I'm in the regular corporate area. I work in the aerospace industry. So I have people there. And, and in this space. So I would say in this space, there's. There's a guy in Nigeria. His name is Boluwatife Joshua. Um, I respect him a lot. Even though, you know, it might seem like, okay, I see him as a leader who has been very, very persistent. And, you know, his resiliency shows me that he's somebody that is passionate. Passion is something that I look for when you're somebody who, especially in this field, in this, in the, in the industry, for you to be able to put your life on the line every day speaking on the same thing over and over again, regardless of the number of people listening, I think is. I think it's worth celebrating. And so I would say he's. He's that person.

Ademola Odewade: Amazing. So who are the other people you have on your lips?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: So I will say, uh, so there's. There's a. There's a speaker who I, I love so much, and I'm gonna get her name. So give me a second. I've been. I enjoy listening to her, uh, channel because again, I, I see that she's one of the leaders who. She's one of the leaders who is just very, very quick with it. And I'm gonna get you her name. Uh, I know. I know her name is Gonzalez, but I'm trying to get her first name. So give me a second to get her first name. Let's see. Where is it? Okay, so wait. Where is she? I hope I'm not ruining anything with this. Forgive me. Okay, this is weird. Okay, so there's, uh, a. There's another guy. His name is called Bin Giang. I don't know if I said it right. Is an Asian guy who. He's a coach. When it comes to speaking, I'm somebody who struggles with just how to. I've always. I mean, being adhd, I've always struggled reconnecting my thoughts to my mouth. And so he's certainly somebody that I. When I hear him speak, I'm able to just. I'm able to just pick and say, okay, he's speaking to me directly. And, uh, the other person would be. Where is she? Mel Robbins, again, I do a lot of. I do a lot of speaking. I know. So Mel M. Robbins is certainly somebody that. I know that. Okay. If I. If I have an opportunity, I certainly want to be able to talk to her, just because these are people that I think speaks to me when I hear them speak. And there are a couple of others, you know, but I. I'm not good. Because if I have to start mentioning names and people like, okay, well, there are coaches and people that I work with, and they're like, why. Why didn't I get named? Why didn't I get. You know, so. But there are a couple of people that have certainly impacted me one way or the other, but at least people that I know that when I'm bored, if I'm driving and I just want to listen to something, I throw them on.

Ademola Odewade: Amazing. Amazing. And of course, I think I'm also grateful for the fact that I have entered into that territory. Right. Uh, I see people messaging me, telling me that, oh, I listen to your podcast when I'm on the train, at least to your podcast, to sleep.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yeah.

Ademola Odewade: I'm like, wow.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Wow, yes.

Ademola Odewade: Oh, yes, yes, absolutely, man. I think words are actually insufficient to express how grateful I am, um, to you for spending your time and your life today on the podcast. So let us hit the quick fire round. Questions, Five questions, quick answers. Are you ready to rumble? Okay, number one. What is one word that best describes your leadership style?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: That's a good one. One word. One word. How do I describe myself? I think my leadership style. I know I said more than one word. M. Give me a second. Can I think on it?

Ademola Odewade: You can think of it, but I think I have two words that I think describe your leadership style. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Yes. And you think I should know, right? Let me see.

Ademola Odewade: I think a couple of words are coming to me based on my understanding of you. Uh, I would say compassionate. I would say collaborative.

Narrator: Yeah.

Ademola Odewade: Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Collaborative and very intentional. Intentional, that's another word that I would say for sure. I'm very compassionate. Uh, because I'm very people oriented. I'm intentional. Everything that I do, I always make sure that is properly thought through. Whether even in my personal day to day life, everything has to be very intentional and thought through through. So I would say intentional. And I appreciate the words that you've added as well.

Ademola Odewade: You're welcome. Uh, so what is one book every leader must read?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: The Courage to Be Disliked would be that book for me. And whether you're just getting in that leadership space or you're already in that space, I think understanding that everybody's not going to align with your mission and your vision and everybody's not going to be on board with that, I think that is something that everyone should read. So for me, that book would be the Courage to Be Disliked.

Ademola Odewade: I think, I think. I love that. I'm gonna go grab that book because I think it describes myself like, uh, I don't care about whether you like me or you don't like me. Like even Jesus Christ was not like everybody. Right. So who am I to be like?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: Right. Yes. Well, so that's why that book is a powerful afraid, especially being, uh, you know, when you're neurodivergent, you're very prone to being a people pleaser where you want to sacrifice yourself and please everybody. But you know, that book, they've certainly opened my eyes to understanding that everybody's not going to be on board with what you have. Your ideas are not going to be, uh, the most popular opinion. Everybody's not going to appreciate what you're doing. So. But you have to have the courage to know that you don't have to be the popular or the most popular person.

Ademola Odewade: I love that. So what is, or, uh, who is one person who has inspired your journey?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: My mom. My mom has inspired me growing up. Yeah, growing up with that. Um, and I saw how she struggled. And that's why the name of the organization is Daughter of Ellen, Right. Because my mom's name was Ellen. And her struggle. Raising a child like myself was certainly not the easiest. And so it was easier to transfer that, that vision and that dream into building a community where we can provide support for parents and, um, and educators. So I would say my mom, I,

Ademola Odewade: I, I very much appreciate that, you know, people do not see the levels of sacrifices that mothers actually make. So, yeah, I can very, very much relate to that. So what is one habit that has the biggest impact on your success?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: I think the, the fact that I don't stop learning. I, I can't tell you the number of classes and certifications that I so. And, and a lot of times people, my friends would say, yvonne wears many hats. And, but that's also because when I grow interest in something, I go for it. Uh, last year I finished, Last year I finished my, I had to go to school to become a licensed esthetician because I just grew interesting. I want to know what it means to have the perfect skin. And so at first I thought it would be easy, but then I spent a whole year in school and I paid thousands of dollars and I would leave, I would wake up in the morning, do my regular corporate job, and then go to school Monday to Friday, every day for a whole year. And I became the, you know, I was the, I was the best student in my class. So the way my brain works is I always just want to learn and learn and learn. And so I think that has been very, very instrumental for me. Just my, my curiosity, my ability to want to absorb information where possible. That has been very instrumental for me.

Ademola Odewade: That is fantastic. And of course, the last question is, what does a, uh, meaningful life mean to you?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: A meaningful life. It's a life where I've been able to successfully achieve everything that I set out to do, where I've been able to touch the people that I set out to support when I, when I started this journey, where the achievement for the organization is to be able to look back and say, okay, we, we. By we, I mean myself and the team, we added our voices where it matters and it counts, and we're able to make this, uh, this whole thing work, where people don't have to see accessibility and inclusion as a special conversation in future. That would be a meaningful life for me. It would be, yeah, just impact, you know, where it matters.

Ademola Odewade: I think that is amazing. Uh, I think my, my ADHD mind was thinking a meaningful life is one wherein you reach the, the top of the pyramid in Abraham Maslow's hierarchy. Of needs.

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: See that, that would be. I mean, that counts, right? That counts. That could also, that could also be a thing. Uh, and I can add that to it.

Ademola Odewade: Okay. Amazing, amazing stuff. You know, I cannot thank you enough. You know, words are insufficient to express my, um, gratitude to you today. And how can people, you know, would I say, find your work? And what's your last message to, to the audience today?

Yvonne Anthony-Eleko: My last message to the audience, whether you're some, whether you're neurotypical, whether you're neurodivergent or persons with disability, physical or non physical, my last message is that you will always be misunderstood. And that's absolutely fine. Right. There will always be systems that will fail to support you. There'll be moments where you're going to question yourself. And, uh, you just don't have to allow those moments to define you. And again, this is not specific to neurodivergent persons with disabilities or noticeable. This is for everyone. Uh, I can be found on Instagram. I have my personal Instagram page, which is Yvonne underscoreAnthony. And then we have the organization's page, which is underscore.org Ellen. We have our, uh, website, which is daughter of Ellen without the H, because I know sometimes there's the Ellen with H. But no, it's daughter of Ellen. That's E L L e n dot org. And yeah, a lot of our words, uh, working can be found on the website and on our social media platform. And we do have a WhatsApp community where people can also join from our, from our website as well.

Ademola Odewade: Amazing. So I would ensure that, uh, all of the links are in the description. So whether you're watching or you're listening, you can check the description of the podcast and, you know, find access to as, uh, the links. So from me to you, it's a, uh, very, very big thank you. You know, the Kingdoms podcast actually exists to amplify, um, voices like yours, you know, leaders who are not just talking about change or building it brick by brick, community by community, one barrier removed at a time. So to the audience, always remember that you are seen. Your defense is not a deficit. It is a dimension of your humanity. And the world has not yet learned to fully appreciate it, but they will. You're needed. The problems of our generation require minds that think differently. So your neurodivergence is not an obstacle to your contribution. It may be the very source of it. And of course, you are not alone. Uh, there's a community of advocates like Yvonne, Right. And the sort of Elaine community leaders and change makers who are fighting to build a world where we can fully belong. And of course, Yvonne Anthony Elekor is proudly one of them. First, uh, guys, you know what to do. Like share, subscribe, you know, and support the show. And of course, till I come your way again, conceive, believe, strive to thrive and achieve. Always go for something in your life. And of course from me, it's goodbye. And from the woman, the myth and the legend, Yvonne, it's also goodbye.

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