Financially Stable, Existentially Insolvent ft. Sahil Bloom, Author of 'The 5 Types of Wealth'

Speaker A: So it turns out wealth isn't just monetary.

Speaker B: Maybe fighting for your life to make more money isn't the answer.

Speaker A: When you think about these billionaires that we all read about, are they really someone you want to be? They've got kids who won't talk to them and they've got four ex wives.

Speaker B: Do you know those guys who keep like a CRM of their personal relationships? That makes me cringe so hard.

Speaker A: Makes me cringe too.

Speaker B: So happy. Our guest is coming into the studio today to answer all of these questions. You may know him as the cold

Speaker A: plunge guy or the one one one guy.

Speaker B: Please welcome to Demoted.

Speaker A: Sahil Bloom.

Speaker C: Demoted.

Speaker A: What is up, motorheads? Welcome to another edition of Demoted.

Speaker B: I like your glasses. Are you doing the whole like trying to be smart thing?

Speaker A: Yeah, I was like, hold on. My eyes itching like it always does. Hold on. I can't see that right. Go to Natalie's coverage.

Speaker B: I'm so sick of your itchy eyes.

Speaker A: Okay. My eyes have been really just doing the most. Um, I'm wearing the glasses because Talon in this title said where wardrobe was old money aristocrat.

Speaker B: He's out of ideas.

Speaker A: He's out of ideas.

Speaker B: He's done with the work.

Speaker A: I didn't want to put on a suit.

Speaker B: And we, as we always do every week, ignore the wardrobe entirely.

Speaker A: Ignore it. Don't even look at the outline until the day of after. I'm on my way here.

Speaker B: We got here, we're like, what are we doing today? Who are we interviewing?

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, but we are interviewing someone today.

Speaker B: It is Sahil Bloom.

Speaker A: He's a wildly successful individual. Wealthy in a million different ways.

Speaker B: He's so wealthy he has, in fact, a bunch of principles for types of wealth. Right.

Speaker A: I don't know how to describe it. He's like a well known, well rounded coach of life, of all things, of all pillars of life. And we'll get into it.

Speaker B: He's like the guy you see on YouTube shorts that you. That makes you hate yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, he's just so goddamn successful and dialed really? Really? Yeah. He's eloquent, he's classy, he's smart, he's intellectual, but accessible. He is goddamn annoying.

Speaker B: I'll talk a little bit about his career. So he spent the first seven years of his career in high finance, serving as a vice president at a private equity fund with $3.5 billion in ass.

Speaker A: Oh, is that a lot?

Speaker B: Wait, is that a big number?

Speaker A: I don't know. I can't count.

Speaker B: I need to ask you Betty.

Speaker A: He is also an entrepreneur and investor and author. And that's what we're going to be talking about. His book, five types of wealth, a transformative guide to your dream life.

Speaker B: He owns and operates SRB Holdings, a personal holding company of 10 cash flowing business assets. I don't even know what that means. And he's also the founder and managing partner of SRB Ventures.

Speaker A: Yeah. So does he do interesting, important stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: You could do way more than we ever will in our whole life.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Also yes.

Speaker A: If you don't already. You should follow him on all socials. His stuff is really good. He takes a lot of really interesting points and breaks them down into really digestible ways. Something that Natalie and I dream of but still haven't quite been able to master.

Speaker B: Leaving people with actionable learnings.

Speaker A: Yeah, like, wow, I grew today.

Speaker B: What's that?

Speaker A: Like, we are the final video before people. Like, I need to put my phone, um, down. Like, I gotta get off this. Like, I am rotting.

Speaker B: Stop scrolling.

Speaker A: Yeah. That is so cool. His stuff is beneficial. His stuff is good for you.

Speaker B: Without further ado, let's bring on our guest today, Sahil Bloom. Sahil, welcome to the pod.

Speaker C: Thanks for having me.

Speaker A: Sahil. He's no Saheel. He's no Saheel. I didn't say I heard a heel.

Speaker C: I heard, I didn't hear the heel.

Speaker A: That I'm a piece of shit. I'm super. I'm super triggered by it now because I'm just like.

Speaker B: Well, we're actually.

Speaker C: I mean, trust me, I've heard every variation that you could possibly imagine of my name, including just like full on reshuffling of letters, you know, like finance days. I had like an older banker once called me Shaheesh, which I just have no idea. I don't know where those letters came from.

Speaker B: Please.

Speaker A: What was your first role coming out of college? Sort of. We just kind of touched briefly on it. But we'd love to hear about the ascent prior to where you are now.

Speaker C: The ascent. That makes it sound so, like, so legit, by the way.

Speaker A: Well, we read your bio and wanted to kill ourselves.

Speaker B: It is so legit. No, literally, we read your bio. We're like, God, this is embarrassing for us.

Speaker C: I, um. No, look, so I played baseball, uh, at Stanford. And uh, you know, for the first three years of my time at school, I was utterly convinced that I was destined to like pitch in the World Series, like on major league fields. It was totally naive. Uh, I was actually not that good. I was like I was okay. Uh, but I was not good enough to do that. Uh, I ended up getting hurt, uh, my last year at Stanford, which very much was, uh, one of those proverbial clouds with a silver lining because it forced me to, uh, sort of pivot my identity or diversify my identity at least. Uh, I basically then went on a pursuit of trying to find a job that was going to make me sound the coolest or the most impressive. And in our society, I think there's a pretty safe way to do that, which is take the job that is going to pay you six figures out of school. Uh, it's like, makes you sound impressive to your other friends, who basically measure their success on the basis of who's getting the highest return offer to Goldman Sachs or McKinsey. Uh, at Stanford, that very much was how people measured their success. And so I took a job working at an investment fund in the Bay Area. Um, and I basically did it for, um, you know, two reasons. One, I thought I was going to learn a lot. I thought it was going to be really challenging and a place where I was going to have to work really hard, which I always really liked. Uh, and then two, uh, I sort of figured it was the job that was going to create the best LinkedIn Flex. Uh, and this is like pre LinkedIn Flex being a thing. So I would like to say that I had some degree of foresight into what the future would become. Uh, but this is like a common phenomenon now where you see a lot of people take the job, uh, because they want the LinkedIn post, not because they actually want that job.

Speaker B: Well, you're humbled and honored to announce.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'd love to see that LinkedIn post.

Speaker C: No one is ever actually humble or honored about any of those things that they're announcing.

Speaker B: No, no, not at all.

Speaker A: I just want to let you know,

Speaker B: just so you guys know, I'm humbled

Speaker C: and honored to have won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Speaker A: That's fine. If you want to be humbled and honored about that, fine.

Speaker B: You're allowed to be. Correct.

Speaker A: Yeah. But, yeah, Your associate of McKinsey is not, not impressive to me.

Speaker B: So you took that job and quickly realized, or how long did it take you to kind of come to this enlightenment I would say that you're at now in your life?

Speaker C: Uh, you know, I really loved what I was doing for the first, um, you know, three to five years. I, um, was learning a ton. And for me, like, intellectual challenge and stimulation is where I get a lot of energy and sort of like, life force from. And those industry and career paths where you are working as hard as you're working, especially in finance and investing, there's an enormously steep learning curve to come up. Uh, and that reminded me of like my baseball pursuits. It felt very similar in the, like, um, in the vein of just needing to work really hard, show up consistently and you get better at the thing. Uh, and it was even better in the sense that there was not really an element of just like getting lucky involved. Like I was a pitcher in baseball and you could throw the perfect pitch, like you could do all the work, do all the perfect stuff, and you throw the perfect pitch and the guy just like hits a home run. It's like sort of out of your control. In the world of work and finance, I was like, if I do all the things, if I just like show up with a ton of energy, show up every single day, I work really hard, my outcomes are basically directly tied to the inputs that I'm willing to put in. And I found that so liberating because it was really the first time in my life that I had experienced it. So I really, I really thrived, frankly, those first like three to five years. It was only after I got through that sort of steep part of the learning curve that I started to really zoom out and think about, uh, what I was actually doing and whether it was really fulfilling in a sort of macro sense for my life.

Speaker A: I would say you didn't want to go into sales like the rest of us washed up baseball players.

Speaker C: I did. The allure of medical device sales was significant because there were so many former Stanford baseball guys that were like, killing it. You know, everyone's like, oh, yo, so and so is killing it, uh, working at Stryker or whatever, like insert medical device tech company, uh, and uh, the allure was definitely there. Although I would say that like the uh, the idea of working in private equity straight out of school for the, like the LinkedIn Flex.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Was pretty significant there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You're grinding. It seems like you enjoyed the grind from what I'm hearing. It wasn't. You weren't miserable. But then I guess when was the moment when you reached this point where you realized that monetary wealth wasn't directly correlated to your overall success and happiness.

Speaker C: I don't know if you've ever heard the uh, analogy of a boiling frog. There's this idea that if you drop a frog into boiling water, they'll immediately jump out. Uh, but if you put a frog into a pot of lukewarm water and Slowly bring it to a boil. They'll stay in there until they die. And the idea is basically that these slow, steady, incremental changes are very easy to ignore, uh, until it's too late. And I would say very much my story was like that of the boiling frog. Uh, I feel like it was very easy to ignore these subtle, tiny changes that were happening under the surface in my life. Uh, most importantly, I was slowly losing sight of all of these other areas of my life while I focused on this one thing of financial success, status, et cetera. So I was winning this one game, uh, making money, getting promoted, bonuses, et cetera. Um, and every single one of those achievements made me more and more blind to all of these other areas of my life that were sort of suffering. I was living 3,000 miles away from my parents. I was super close to them, wasn't really seeing them anymore. My relationship with my sister had effectively ground to a halt. You know, my wife and I were struggling to conceive at the time. It was creating strain in our relationship. For the first time, um, I was drinking six, seven nights a week. Like that had slowly crept up from one to six or seven. Um, my mental and physical health were starting to be in trouble. And it was very easy to ignore those things because I was like, winning on the one major scoreboard that you think about for your life. What you measure in your life really matters, right? Like, the things that you measure end up dictating all of your actions. Like, silly example of this is if you've ever put on, or, you know, anyone that's ever put on one of those, like sleep tracking rings or bands, all of a sudden they become the most annoying sleep person in the. Oh, no, I can't go out.

Speaker A: I took my whoop on my side

Speaker C: this, that I can't have a drink. All these things. Suddenly all of your actions surround the one thing that you can measure. And the same thing applies to our lives when it comes to money. Like, it's historically just been the one thing that you can measure definitively about your life. And so all of your actions go towards optimizing around it, even if that comes at the expense of these other areas of your life, simply because those other areas have not been something you have thought about measuring. And so that was sort of this path that I was on, uh, during the fifth, sixth, seventh year, sort of into when Covid hit. And I think that Covid, for me and for many people was this kind of like forced zoom out moment where for the first time in many Years m. I had to slow down and pause and really think about what were the priorities that I wanted to build my life around? What were the things that really mattered, um, and how were my actions aligned around those priorities?

Speaker A: Right. And I think that's kind of a perfect segue here. So in your book, the five types of wealth, a transformative guide to design your dream life, you talk about how you know, financial wealth is not the only type of wealth there is. And I think you're. You just kind of alluded to it. So can you talk about the others that you've identified, the five you identified and just a kind of a brief, you know, synopsis on those?

Speaker C: Yeah. So the first type is time wealth. Time wealth is all about freedom to choose how you spend your time, who you spend it with, where you spend it, when you trade it for other things. It's about an awareness of time as your most precious asset. The second type is social wealth, all about your relationships. The third type is mental wealth. It's about purpose. That's about growth, but it's also about creating the space necessary to actually wrestle with some of these bigger picture, more unanswerable questions of life, whether through spirituality, religion, solitude, meditation, what have you. Fourth type is physical wealth, all about your health and vitality. And then the fifth type is financial wealth. Money, uh, with the specific nuance of really focusing on your definition of enough, what it means to have enough financially, with the recognition being that your expectations are, uh, your single greatest financial liability. If your expectations rise faster than your assets, you will never feel wealthy.

Speaker B: I feel time bankruptcy. We were chatting about this before you joined. Like, I. I feel like I have no control of my time. Even though I run my own business, I find myself successful and wealthy in these other areas. And then my time is like, where is it going in the day? I have no idea.

Speaker C: I think that that's a very common phenomenon, by the way. I mean, it's, um. I have certainly felt that at many times, even though I'm on this path, that, like, should be, as you said, uh, you know, you should be in control. Like, you should have freedom. And what I found time and time again in my own life and with all of the people that I've studied, you know, the thousands of conversations that contributed to this book is that it is largely a byproduct of two things. One is this social pressure to be busy. Um, you know, busyness as a thing has become this, like, pseudo dystopian status symbol of the modern era. Like, you go out to a party and people ask how you're doing and you're supposed to say busy.

Speaker B: Especially in America. It's really only in America.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's true.

Speaker A: It's like a badge of honor entirely.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: You're like, well, look, look how, um, you know, look how valuable I am to society, right? Like, oh, look how many things I'm doing. I'm doing all these big things. It is the LinkedIn Flex in a lot of ways, just in a new setting. The second piece is that we are all terrible, ambitious people in particular at saying no to things. And what happens is there's like this buildup of these tiny yeses that none of them feel meaningful individually. But when you st them up and you look at the zoomed out view of your calendar, you've said yes to a hundred things that actually do not contribute to the more significant life changing outcomes that you're trying to create. There's maybe two or three things in your professional life and two or three things in your personal life that are actually contributing to the life that you are trying to build. And yet you are spending time on like 50 things in each of those two arenas.

Speaker B: But what about the 16 weddings I'm going to this year?

Speaker A: I've gotten good at saying no to

Speaker C: this thing with weddings. I have gone from being you, the person that's like, I'm going to go to every single wedding, uh, to. It is very hard to get me to go to a wedding that has been like a transition over the course of my life partially because I just feel tired and I'm old and I have a kid and I'm like, I don't like it. So, um, I really have to go sweating on the other. You're like, don't invite me to your wedding in Thailand. I don't want to go to Thailand like you, Sorry. But the whole thing of like, I love the meme about destination weddings, uh, and how that like enrages people whenever people have hot takes on destination weddings. I actually, I totally get doing a destination wedding as a mechanism for people to not come to your wedding that you don't want. You can do the polite thing of inviting them knowing that they're not going to show up. But like, I've had a couple dear friends that I like really want to be there. Like some of my closest friends in the world, they're like, wedding in Thailand. I'm like, dude, I have a two year old. Like, uh, how I'm not getting on a plane, I'm not getting on an 18 hour flight with a 2 year old. And then they're like a staple gun my stomach over and over and over again.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh.

Speaker B: I mean, so all of these, obviously in an ideal state, you want to be able to have all these things. You want to be able to have time, financial success, your mental well being in check, great social life, all these things. But like, how do you balance these different types of wealth throughout different phases of your career?

Speaker C: Balance is an idea that has been hijacked to some extent. You know what, when you talk about balance, um, what people commonly think is that it's about the days. You're like, oh, well, I need to have a perfect balance of all of these types of wealth. So like my days need to be a perfect balance of personal time and work and health and mental health. And if my days aren't that perfect balance, I'm going to get stressed that I'm out of balance, which creates this spiral because then I'm stressed, that makes me more imbalanced and it just gets worse. The truth is that balance is about seasons, not days. You are going to have seasons of unbalance in your life where you are really leaning into certain things that are in service of future seasons of balance. And for you to be able to know that and to just lean into the season of unbalance for what it is is important as long as you have the awareness that it needs to be in service of a future season of balance to come. I have found that to be an enormously liberating concept to just say that like I might be in a 3 month or a 6 month or a 12 month sprint in my professional life, in something I'm trying to build, that's really important to me, really important to my family or to whatever world I am serving. And that's okay. That doesn't mean that I'm like out of whack. My priorities are off base. It might just mean that it's really important and that this is the one thing that I need to be lean into. Now the recognition here on a more macro level is that this whole idea of your life existing sort of on these like on off switches is fundamentally quite broken. You know, like, um, the traditional wisdom has been that these different areas of your life exist on these on off switches. And so you say, well like I'm going to be leaning into, uh, my career financial wealth in my 20s and 30s. So I flip that switch on and simultaneously you make this implicit assumption of saying, too bad health, flip it off, too bad Mental health flip it off. Too bad. Family and friends flip it off. And the dangerous thing about that mindset is that if you leave some of these areas of your life turned off for too long, you cannot turn them back on or they become very difficult to turn back on later. I mean, ask anyone who didn't invest in their relationships or their health in their 20s, 30s and 40s how difficult it is to refind those things in your 50s and 60s. Almost impossible. The antidote to that is to embrace what I talk about as this like dimmer switch mentality, that you can have one area turned way up, that area that you're really leaning into the unbalanced during this season, but it doesn't mean you turn the other areas off. They just need to be turned down low. With the recognition being that anything above zero compounds, like if, if you're not really focusing on your health during this season of life because you're really leaning into your career, you can still go out for a 15 minute walk that is infinitely better than doing nothing. You know, you may not be able to have the time to do all of the weddings, to do all of the group trips, all of those things you want to do, but you can still find 10 minutes to call your best friend on the way home from work to do those tiny actions that stack and compound in these areas. Because again, anything above zero compounds.

Speaker A: So a lot of the folks who listen to our podcast, they work in the corporate world and they struggle with the concept of time wealth. You know, how can someone reclaim that when there's just so much pressure to succeed and like the demands of that, you know, the LinkedIn Flex, so to speak.

Speaker C: I'll give you two things that are pretty tactical. So the first one is just like a bite sized idea, uh, I call it the like right now test in the book, which is just to say you get invited to something a month or two months from now, ask yourself, would I go do this right now? Like if I got invited to this and it was tonight, would I want to go do this thing? If the answer is no, you're not going to want to do it in a month or in two months. Uh, what happens is humans are very bad at thinking about future time. And so what we do is we say to ourselves, oh, I'm m really busy right now, but like a month from now my calendar looks open, so I'm totally going to have free time and headspace to go to whatever I'm

Speaker B: going to do chronically. Like that I'm like my Life will be drastically different in two months.

Speaker A: And that's one of your, one of your little yeses that becomes all the answers.

Speaker C: No it won't.

Speaker B: My life's been the same high strung misery for three years. When is it?

Speaker C: And it's called the yes damn effect for this exact reason. You say yes to the thing and then the date comes and you're like, damn, why did I say yes to that thing? Uh, and so the right now test really helps with that. You, you just ask yourself, would I do it right now? The second one is a more macro perspective, which is, I call it the energy calendar. Like at the end of a given workday, look at your calendar and color code the activities from the day according to whether they created energy, meaning you felt sort of lifted up, pulled towards it. Market green if it was neutral, market yellow. Uh, and if it drained your energy, if you felt physically drained by it, uh, market red. If you do that for a week and then zoom out and look at it, you'll have a very clear visual perspective on the types of activities that create energy versus drain energy. In your professional life, that information is really important for building time wealth because the things that you have energy for are going to be the things where you create the ten hundred thousand x outcomes that create step function improvements. If you can lean into the energy creators and slowly find a way to delegate, delete or lean away from the energy drainers, you will feel more time wealth in your life. You will feel this sense that you are starting to dislocate the inputs of your time from the outputs that you're creating.

Speaker B: I've seen a lot on your page. You talk about autonomy and that's such a powerful tool. And I do think when you're early in your career, it's hard to make these decisions and say like, oh, that was draining. I don't want to go to that happy hour where you know, you kind of have to go and you have to show up to these things. So it's interesting what you're saying about that balance and I think as it relates to social wealth, how do you take this kind of quantitative approach to these relationships in your life? Because it sounds really hard to do and almost like not shallow. But you know, how do you take this approach, like the Oura Ring approach to your relationships?

Speaker C: Yeah, I wouldn't say I go so far as to uh, like uh, looking at sort of numbers. I like, you know, I've, I've met people that have like personal CRM for their relationships. I saw a Meme recently or like a tweet maybe that was like, every single person I've met that has a personal CRM is a psychopath. Um, and that's like half a Stanford. Yeah, I'm like, I'm sort of inclined to agree. Like, I, I don't automate relationships. I don't do any of those things. I. I think it really is easier to just follow your energy when it comes to relationships. You know, intu physically, you know how you feel from spending time with certain people and other people.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: If you lean into the relationships that make you feel physically uplifted, like the friends that you spend time with, and then you want to go run around the block because you got so much energy from being around them. And then there are friends that make you want to take a shower after you spend time with them because you feel so gross. You're like, I should probably spend less time with those people and more with the ones that make me want to go for a run. Um, and that is, uh, a pretty simple and powerful tool for just clarifying over time who you really want to be prioritizing in your life. And I think one of the most liberating ideas is to just realize that, um, the things that you choose to give your energy to in life will grow. So if you choose to give your energy to positive people that lift you up, uh, encourage you to think bigger, those relationships will grow. If you choose to give your energy to people who drain you, who pull you down, who tell you to be realistic, those relationships will grow. And so the choice is really yours about where you deploy your finite energy that you have in your life.

Speaker A: I like this idea of sort of energy expenditure, but do you think, and I understand it from, like, this social standpoint, but do you think there is something. It sounds all negative, so to speak, but do you think there's, like, energy expenditure that is worthwhile, like energy draining. Right. That makes it fulfilling or more worthwhile? I understand relationships like, you don't want to nurture things that are inherently negative and sucking energy. Right. But like, you know, the cost of baseball practice. Right. The sprints, the things that you put in that suck. But like, you, it is sort of an investment in those future, sort of like energy lifters.

Speaker B: And you saying, you know, grinding earlier in your career. I think a lot of early and career folks have seen this, are like, I'm burnt out. And it's like, do you know what, what burnout means? Or are you. Are you truly burnt out? Right.

Speaker A: Are you working hard and like this is building and this is good, so to speak.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: I think that there's an important distinction here, which is, um, something can be physically draining during it, but feel really good after. Sure. And that is energy creating. Like, that is not. It is not. Uh, you, like doing a workout might be really tiring and physically draining while you were doing a hard workout, but you feel incredible after. And so you really need to like pull that after into this equation of how you are thinking about a thing like that. That is what I would characterize as meaningful struggle. Like you were doing something that feels meaningful. Having a kid is a great example of that. Having a kid is not a great thing for like in the moment, happiness in any given moment. Right. They're like puking, they throw up on the ground. You're like, you know, having to fly with them and do things extraordinarily positive for meaningful struggle and happiness that comes from that over longer term time horizons. So I do think there's an important distinction here to recognize that, uh, how you feel during the thing is actually less important than how you sort of feel once you've completed it, uh, and having gone through it.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's great advice.

Speaker A: I have a 2 month old, so.

Speaker C: Yeah, you're really in it.

Speaker A: I'm in it, I'm deep and you're

Speaker C: sort of always in it. It doesn't really came downstairs an hour ago. Um, and like I just got in a box, like someone sent a box of a bunch of product. This company, uh, Element, the like salt electrolyte packets I take. And uh, there was like, you know, 20 boxes of it in there. And my son had decided to open all of them and pour them all over the downstairs of our house. And I was like, this is why we just shouldn't have a nice house. I'm like, no matter what, it's just gonna be a disaster. It's never gonna be clean.

Speaker B: I love all this tactical advice you're giving. I think this is so helpful to our listeners. I think guess just advice for someone who feels super financially stable but maybe are lacking in the other areas. What would you say to that person, perhaps your younger self?

Speaker C: Yeah, I really think that, um, this is all about tiny sort of incremental changes and improvements in where you are. Like, uh, you know, what I would say is the question to ask yourself where you sit today, no matter where you are, is if a third party were to come and observe me for a week, what would they say my priorities are? The recognition here is that there are two Types of priorities in life, there are the priorities you say you have, and there are the priorities your actions show you have. And there's often a big gap between those two things. What you say and what you're actually doing. Your life will improve alongside your ability to close that gap. But the only way you can close that gap is if you identify it first. So zoom out enough so that you can see what it is. See how different your actions are from what you claim your priorities are. And then go start making some tiny improvements to that. Like if you say you're the type of person that prioritizes family relationships or your friends, go show it. Go actually do something around that. Text the friend when you're thinking about them. You know, like, call your mom on the way home from work rather than listening to a podcast on 3x speed.

Speaker A: Unless it's demo.

Speaker C: Whatever the thing is, go take some tiny action there because those small things become big things. Right?

Speaker B: I gotta do some energy calendaring.

Speaker A: You do?

Speaker C: I really should.

Speaker A: Your calendar gives me anxiety. Horrible anxiety.

Speaker B: When I see it, it has like a mil.

Speaker A: It makes me want to throw.

Speaker B: Entire thing is filled from 6am to 6.

Speaker C: With what?

Speaker B: Like, right.

Speaker C: Film meetings?

Speaker B: Script blocks? No, just like everything I do in my life.

Speaker A: Every action is calendared for her.

Speaker B: Yeah. Which is wrong?

Speaker C: I don't know. I mean, it depends on the type of person you are. Like, if you're very type A. Like, I think it helps a lot to have these things kind of like set out, structured. I personally think that, um, lack of structure is one of the most challenging things when you switch to a path of entrepreneurship. Like, I remember when I left my job and was going down this new path, the most challenging thing was waking up in the morning and having no one telling me what I should be doing or working on. I was like, so what do I do? Uh, and stress and anxiety feed on idleness. So when you're sitting around doing nothing, just like wondering what you should do, you start getting stressed, you start getting anxious. And the reality, reality is that the action is the antidote to that stress and anxiety. But that action only comes from having some sort of structure on your calendar of like, okay, I'm going to do this in the morning, then I'm going to work on this. I might have an idea about it. Uh, and that really helps a lot for most people when they're making the leap from a traditional path to a non traditional one.

Speaker B: I love structure.

Speaker A: You? Yeah.

Speaker B: Salivating just thinking about structure.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, I mean structure. Yeah, I mean I need more structure. I'm a big chaos guy. Um, okay. For those working long hours in sort of a corporate environment or, you know, any long hours anywhere, you know, what is sort of, what is a tactical way to get the physical side going? And this is a question for my younger brother.

Speaker C: I think that the, I think the first thing I would say to anybody is, uh, stop, like, listening to, uh, all of the like, gurus that feed you the crazy, uh, expensive, Fancy, you know, 47 step protocols for, uh, you know, getting healthy. Like, I think one of the most challenging things about this social media age we live in is that the thing that you see on social media is generally speaking going to be, uh, from one end, like, you know, the tail end extreme, because that's what sells. Like the most complex sexy solution is the one that gets the most clicks.

Speaker B: 25 supplements.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, if I go to like, if I go to a party, uh, and uh, you know, we're in a circle and people are like, hey, what are you doing for health? And I say, uh, you know, I'm trying to move for 30 minutes a day. I'm eating mostly single ingredient whole unprocessed foods and I'm trying to sleep for seven hours a night. They're very quickly going to move on to the guy to my right who's like, oh, well, I'm doing red light therapy, injection, cryptoid, you know, peptide something or the other. Like, it just, it's way sexier. So it's more interesting. Everyone's going to turn to that person. And on social media you're bombarded by that because in the marketplace everyone's going to click on that thing. So you're going to get fed constantly. That, that's what it looks like to be healthy. And that creates this intimidation factor that generally speaking will manifest as someone just not starting. Like if I, if I haven't gotten started. And I think that what it means to be healthy is to do a million step morning routines where I'm dunking my face in water and rubbing banana peels on my face. I'm probably not going to even get started.

Speaker B: But if you told me to do that right now, I would like, I'm

Speaker C: exactly like, hey, the cheetah. Like, you want good skin? Go rub banana peels on your face. Like, you might go rub banana peels on your face. I don't know, I don't know how, if my skin looks good enough on, uh, on Riverside, but if I told you that, you know, on 4K, like, maybe it would Maybe it would do the trick. And so the thing that I would say to anyone is like, the truth about what it means to get healthy is just those three simple things. It's like level one is just move your body for 30 minutes a day, doesn't matter what it is. Walk, run, bike, jog, row, dance, whatever you like doing. Eat whole single ingredient unprocessed foods at like 80% of your meals. That's 17 out of 21 meals during the week. Uh, and then sleep for seven hours a night. If you can do those three things, you're probably ahead of 90% of people out there. And that is a great start that you can build up from. But until you do that consistently, you don't need to worry about cold, plunging, saunas, peptides, you know, morning routines. Like, you don't need to worry about a million other things. Just do that consistently.

Speaker B: I love that you said dance. Ross is a huge Zumba guy.

Speaker C: I kind of figured it, actually. I saw those shoes.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: They're nice little book tee up for you here. What's one practice from your book you believe every corporate worker in their late 20s or early 30s should immediately adopt?

Speaker C: And why, I would say creating a practice, um, of, uh, like two to three minutes before you go to bed, uh, of like a journaling habit is probably the single highest ROI thing that you can do. Um, I think that journaling is something that, like, people generally have in their mind as being this, like, really, um, uh, challenging or ambitious undertaking. Like, you need to have like, this fancy paper and light a candle. Drink. Yeah, you need a quill, you need the wine, you need the, like, the whole, the whole vibe needs to be set. And that really held me back from getting started on it. I'm the type of person that, like, I get into bed and my mind is racing on a million things that I haven't done. I feel like I didn't get enough done. Stress, anxiety, all those things. All I do is. And in the book I talk about this. I call it the one, one, one method. Uh, right before going to bed, I just write down one win from the day. That's something that I felt good about. One point of Stress, tension or anxiety, something I want to get off my head onto the paper. And then one point of gratitude, something that I felt grateful for during the day. It takes one to two minutes max to write it down. And it creates this immediate sense of just calm and ease to end the day. Has helped with my sleep, has helped with my ment. Mental health. A, uh, Huge, huge life benefit for almost zero time investment.

Speaker A: My, my wife does this very consistently every day. And we have to do our one highlight every, every night before we go to bed, we have to do our highlight of the day. She has like a journal that has sort of a um, like templated questions in there and she fills it out every day. But I have to contribute like one highlight of the day.

Speaker B: I love that. That's so good.

Speaker A: And she writes though. She writes those all down.

Speaker B: I just do. Mark is completed. My reminder to journal every single morning when I missed it. So I'm gonna try the 1, 1, 1. That's great.

Speaker A: I have one final like kind of more existential personal for me question is this idea that when you have been given so much opportunity, when you know like for example, Stanford educated people, right, you come from like potentially for, in my case, an affluent background. Like I have this feeling a sort of moral obligation to achieve. Like if I've been given all these resources, like I feel I have to achieve at some massive scale level. And you kind of talked about at the very beginning where it's like, like that expectation or that hope like continues to go up. As I get closer to it, it just keeps running further away. The sort of never satisfied concept. Like uh, any thoughts on, on that? And perhaps as it pertains to these different wealth pieces, like I feel pretty balanced across those things. But it's never, but I'm never fully satisfied with any of those things.

Speaker C: I don't think that the things are mutually exclusive. Like I don't think that you ever want your ambition to go away. Ambition is not the problem, it's when. And your ambition is only about making money that is the issue. Like uh, chasing more, if it's more purpose, more relationships, more health, those things is actually a really good chase. Chasing more money is the pathway to the rich yet miserable life. Chasing more money, exclusively thinking that that money is going to be what creates these feelings of contentment and happiness is a guaranteed path to misery. It's called the Pyrrhic victory. It's the uh, victory that comes at such a steep cost to the victor that it might been in defeat, right? You don't need to look far if you live in a major city to find examples of this, right? It's like the, it's the guy who's made hundreds of millions, maybe a billion dollars, uh, that we pat on the back, that we celebrate, that we admire and we ignore the fact that they have four ex wives and five kids that don't Talk to them. Uh, and we don't care. Right. Like, as a society, we're just like, oh, that guy won the game. Great. And my entire life changed when I realized that that was not a game that I cared to win.

Speaker A: Win.

Speaker C: Uh, my definition of success is fundamentally different. I wouldn't want to trade lives with the people that I was reading books about. My ambition is going to be channeled into things that are much more diverse than just this one area. Money is a tool, but not the goal. Right?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And what if I'm sad? No.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Just perpetually sad.

Speaker B: Okay, we're going to get into some rapid fire questions. These are just quick off the dome. What are your answers? Then we'll get you on out of here. This first one's a multiple choice. This. I'm gonna read this. Um, which of these things do you have in common with Ross went to Stanford. A, B, are baseball pitchers. C, run an investment group. D, your fathers were professors. And E, you met your wives in high school.

Speaker C: Uh, is there an F? All of the above.

Speaker B: The answer is all of the above.

Speaker A: The answer is all the above.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker C: The answer is. I didn't know that your dad was a professor. I feel like I knew those other things about you. That's great.

Speaker A: He's a journalism professor at Stanford.

Speaker C: There you go.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. He'll tell you all about the dying art. You met your print media.

Speaker B: You met your wife in high school as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, she was a, um, she was a freshman. I was a sophomore.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker C: Wow. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah, my wife's old to my high school boyfriend. She's a month older than me, and I let her know it for that entire month. She's technically a year older than me. Ah, well, all right. In which category of wealth, if any, would you place creative expression and fulfillment?

Speaker C: Mental wealth for sure. Um, I think the creative expression is a key part of how most people unlock, uh, purpose, feelings of growth in their life. Certainly, um, is for me.

Speaker B: Give us a play by play of how you would strike Ross out.

Speaker A: I'm left handed, by the way.

Speaker C: Righty or lefty?

Speaker A: Lefty.

Speaker C: Lefty. Um, I'd probably go, uh, I'd probably go just like little two seamer, outside corner for strike one.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Uh, then I'd probably jam you in with another two seamer, kind of run it off your hands. I think you probably foul that off into the third base dugout. Then I got you O2. I'd probably throw a breaker in the dirt that you'd spit at right uh, and then I'm just throwing splitty in the dirt.

Speaker A: You swinging, right? Yeah. I mean, that's. Yeah, there's probably a good chance you. You know, if you locate those first, those first two, I'm in huge trouble. I'm in huge trouble.

Speaker C: I've never gotten to do this. That was fun for me.

Speaker A: We heard you start your day with an early cold plunge. Right, Right. Is give us your daily rituals.

Speaker C: Grudgingly. I feel like I need to. I need to caveat these things, being

Speaker A: like, yes, yes, I do these things.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You got to own it.

Speaker B: I need to tell you, I told someone we were interviewing you today, and they're like, cold plunge guy. I was like, oh, yeah, it's cold plunge guy. But tell us your dad.

Speaker A: You're not a cold plunge guy to me. Make.

Speaker B: Make everyone else feel bad about themselves. Like, truly give us everything and realize

Speaker A: that everyone's got to build up to

Speaker B: these things and realize that you've been working on this. Exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, the cold plunge for me, I actually have zero idea whether it has any health benefits. Uh, I don't think the research is significant enough to claim that it does. But I know how it makes me feel. Uh, which is, uh, it just makes me feel, uh, incredibly energized to start the day. And you're doing something very difficult to start the day that makes everything feel easier. I wake up really early. That's not because I'm a hard O about sleep. I go to bed at 8:15. Um, and so I go to bed, like, 8:15, 8:30. I wake up at 4:15. I do my cold plunge. Um, I get to my desk at about 4:30. I have a cold brew. Um, and I'm sitting at my desk. Normally I do like, 30 minutes of reading to start my day from about 4:30 to 5. Um, for me, that's just like, a way to wake up.

Speaker A: Is that news? Is that a book is.

Speaker C: Uh, yeah, it's whatever. Like, whatever I'm grabbing. I have just like, a bookshelf behind me. I don't, like, read a book through to the end. I just, like, grab a book that I'm interested in. So I'm like, I don't know, like, I'll read about random physics stuff that I'm getting interested in. I'll read about, I don't know, like, trash sci fi, historical fiction. Just like, literally anything. Grab bag. I just really. Actually, I really like psychological thrillers. Uh, when I go on my long runs, I listen to, like, uh, trashy young adult Stuff like I listen to Hunger Games. Absolutely. So I'm not like reading to sound impressive to people. I just whatever, whatever I like at the moment after reading like 5 to 7:30 or so is when I do my like big creative work for the day. Generally speaking that's writing either the book for the last few years or my newsletter. Um, I am basically only creative early in the morning. I have like, am totally useless creatively later in the day. So I try to stack that in the morning. Uh, rest of the morning I'm like either hanging out with my wife and son, making everyone breakfast, we go for a walk, go uh, do my workouts for the day. I do like kind of a combination of running and lifting like marathon stuff and then lifting stuff. Um, and then lunch with family walk and then the whole afternoon I sort of have as like, like business related stuff. Um, work wise like kind of doing. That's when I do calls, meetings, like investment stuff, whatever business things are going on. Uh, and then make fam. Make dinner for the family. Um, and get uh, my son ready for bed. I do like an evening sauna every night before bed. That's when I like read and sort of think about things. Um, and then uh, I get into bed at like 7:30, take away the

Speaker A: cold plunge in the sauna and move everything back like two hours. That's me.

Speaker B: That's me.

Speaker C: Boring dad life. That's just the best.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I love that I have to graduate to college.

Speaker C: When I do dinners like people always ask me like oh, do you like social life? Ah, like what, what about your social life? I'm like I don't really have a social life. I don't really care to have a social life anymore. I like have my friends that like I see during the course of these activities that I'm doing. And um, for me I'm like if I'm going to do a dinner in New York city, it's at 5:30. I'm getting home at 7:30 from that dinner.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Bedtime routine is not going to start itself.

Speaker B: Sorry.

Speaker A: Uh, you know I love that that

Speaker B: seems honestly it's not as unattainable I think as maybe some people would think just because you're so.

Speaker C: I'm not doing like all of the fancy biohacking stuff. I don't really have. Like I sort of, I'm a big, big fan of the like do the find what the like 10 or 20% of things are that create 80 or 90% of the benefit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And just do those and I'm not really trying to get to the like top point zero one percent in these areas.

Speaker B: My fiance is like, just sleep more. You'll feel so much better, I promise. I'm like, no, I'm gonna do na NAD shots.

Speaker A: How about Adderall?

Speaker B: Yeah, like, I, I'm gonna try something else first. I'm sorry.

Speaker A: The only thing I'm doing is just chugging my wife's breast milk and then doing blood transfusions with my two month old. So I'm just getting his fresh blood, which is nice.

Speaker B: Please.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, the two month old blood transfusion, that is actually the major life hack. That actually is the sixth type of wealth.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's.

Speaker A: We're gonna brand that small child blood is the six type of the wealth. Yeah. Load.

Speaker B: Maybe you aren't in on the biohacking and stuff, so you don't have to answer this. If not. But what supplements do you take?

Speaker C: Um, I'm pretty simple again here. I mean, I take creatine. I've been taking creatine since I was 16 years old when I started training for baseball. Way, uh, before it was like the hot, trendy new supplement that everyone's into nowadays. Um, I've basically been taking 5 to 10 grams of creatine a day for. I don't know, I guess that's like 15 more than that. That's crazy. That's almost 20 years. Um, so I might actually just combust into creatine. And then I take fish oil, I take green supplement. I am one of the AG1, uh, users that everyone again, like between cold plunging and AG1, I'm like very, very trendy now. And, uh, you know, I take like salt and electrolyte. I take the element stuff when I'm doing runs, like mainly to just rehydrate, especially if I sweat a lot. And then I take like a sleep supplement of some kind before I go to bed. Not melatonin, but like magnesium, L theanine, um, some of those simpler things. Things. Um, and Since I turned 30 or so, I started taking like testosterone support, like natural, uh, ashwagandha, tongkat, uh, some of those things that just help as you start to get older.

Speaker B: He's a simple guy.

Speaker A: It's not a lot. It's just simple.

Speaker C: Like, yeah, you know, 20 supplements or whatever. I'm like, oh, I keep it really

Speaker B: simple compared to what you're seeing on Instagram. Like you're saying that is simple. Like I saw again, who takes 40 supplements a day? I'm like, well, I I add to cart. I mean, I guess I have to take this.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Like, I eat. I'm so dialed in on what I eat. I basically eat the same thing every day. I, like, I work out a ton. I, like, I feel good. I don't know. I mean, knock on wood, I guess. But, like, I perform well. I can run fast. I can, like, generally lift a decent amount. Like, I don't feel, uh, like there are some massive gaps. And I feel like most of that is covered by just doing the basic hard things every day. So I don't feel like I need some, like, new shortcut to get me from point A to point B. I prefer to just do the work.

Speaker B: I feel terrible.

Speaker A: As long as I'm hitting bombs, then I, you know, I'm doing. And I'll, you know, if you could crush that all up for me and see if it adds any power, um, I'll take. I'll take it.

Speaker C: Just rip like a pre workout. I mean, back in my baseball days, Jack 3D started, right?

Speaker A: Like 3D.

Speaker C: My arm was hurt. I was taking four Excedrins with a full rock star prior to going into pitch at like 10pm Like, I can't even tell. I mean, that's probably 800 milligrams of caffeine. Mean, uh, before going into pitch at 10pm like, you're not sleeping that night and you're not feeling a thing. Like, I'd get out there and I couldn't see the pit, the catcher's hands. We'd have to go to, like, body signals because I literally couldn't see his fingers.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's also hard to see it sunken. It's a little bit tough with the fingers down there, but, yeah, I mean, a couple Vicodin get through the torn lat. You know, take a little Xanax and a beard. You know, wash it down at the end of the game so I can sleep at 4am Those are. Those are the days.

Speaker B: Um, next rapid fire question. How did your wealth portfolio shift since having your first child? Child?

Speaker C: Oh, man. Um, I mean, enormously. So in the, in the case of social wealth, like my, you know, feelings of connection to my family, to my wife, to everyone around us, and then obviously my relationship with my son, um, you know, completely reshifted my sense of priorities. Um, I would say it just made me more and more focused. Um, I. I have found that I have made more money since my son has been born. And I think a part of that is that it has created an enormous sense of why I am working on things. Things, uh, and that has made me really focused on the few things that I know can really move the needle.

Speaker B: We had someone come on a mom. She's expecting her third child, and she has a recruiting firm, very successful. And she's like, I've learned how to focus in shorter periods of time. My time is gone. Maybe her time wealth. But she's so much more efficient in the time that she does have, which was.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's called Parkinson's law. Work expands to fill the time allotted for its completion. So if you give yourself 30 minutes to get your emails done, you'll get them done in 30 minutes. Whereas if you have two hours to do them, it'll somehow take two hours.

Speaker A: Random. A little bit random. But can leveraging AI improve your different wealth types and which ones? Like, can it factor into any of this stuff? Can people, you know, leverage it, so to speak?

Speaker C: Loaded question. I mean, um, yeah, certainly leveraging AI can help you, you know, delegate certain things, become more efficient with your time, uh, to unlock time that you can then allocate into these other things. Things, I would say, where it starts to get a little bit more murky to me is when you start trying to outsource things that are innately human. Um, and that applies to AI as well as any technology. There is such a thing as optimizing the life out of your life. You can reduce friction in your life to the point where you pull out all the meaning. And, uh, I think a lot of people have found that you continue to remove friction from your life. And then all of a sudden you realize that some of the friction was actually a positive for creating a sense of purpose. Uh, and so, you know, I get. I start to feel a little queasy when we talk about, like, you know, outsourcing friendship to AI and talking, you know, AI, friends, girlfriends, all those things. I'm like, man, um, at some point, I feel like we're reducing our humanity.

Speaker B: Final question. Where can our listeners follow you? Hear more from you. Plug all the things.

Speaker A: Yeah, the newsletter, the book.

Speaker C: Yeah. Well, you can find the book, it's called the Five Types of Wealth, uh, on Amazon, any local bookstore, anywhere Books are sold. Uh, you can find me at Sahil Bloom on any of the platforms. Um, my newsletter is on my website@sahilbloom.com.

Speaker A: well, thank you for joining us. I hope the Motorheads enjoyed it. I'm sure they did.

Speaker B: I enjoyed it. This was lovely. Thank you for taking the time and being on the pod.

Speaker C: Big fan of both of you. So thanks so much for having me.

Speaker A: Of course.

Speaker B: Awesome.

Speaker A: Um, actionable. I told you all of his stuff that he puts on socials, which by the way, again, I'll reiterate it, go follow him. It's just little bite sized stuff. And I find myself very rarely on social media do I save a post post, but actually save his posts.

Speaker B: I also just feel like you're very aligned, you two specifically. And like having a kid where you're

Speaker A: at in your career philosophically. I think like, you know, he was talking about you could throw the perfect pitch and the person still gets a hit. And I talk about that all the time just in like my, my sound bite metaphor, so to speak, where I'm like, rather than thinking about an individual pitch that you throw on a given, you know, to a given hitter, it's like, let's look at it over the course of a game or over the course of a season. And if you throw your best pitch as many times as possible, you know you're gonna look at your outcome and it's actually probably more positive than otherwise.

Speaker B: I think maybe his socials read as more intense than he is.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And he's very chill and enlightened and at peace and calm. At least when you're talking to him like this.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean you can sort of get the energy right. And uh, I agree with his take that social media is so extreme.

Speaker B: But. And you, and he's smart. He, he knows you have to be extreme to get that engagement and those uh, ties right.

Speaker A: And you have to be poignant and you have to be like, like very direct because people aren't going to spend time reading. Sort of a contextual. Here's how I feel. Here's the enlightenment piece of. No, like here. Here's the action that you can take right now.

Speaker B: He was so clear. Just. I loved the energy calendaring. I find that super interesting. Like if I went through my day and my hectic calendar that you and I both know is, is, is just mind numbing to even look at. Like how about I go through and say, wow, I really liked scripting or I really liked filming or actually I hate filming and that brings me stress. You know, I would love to, to do that work. And I think that the journaling too, it seems really attainable. I love that you and Becca journal every night. That just is such a great.

Speaker A: Well, to be clear, I don't totally journal. I just buy into the. Yeah, I buy into the highlight of the day.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know?

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker A: Yeah. I did journal for a little bit where I just did like kind of a recap I did on a Google Doc where it was just like day in my life. Like, what did I do today? It wasn't so much of feelings. I mean, if I had feelings about that day, but it was sort of just like to remember that, like, there's so many days in our life that go by that you just forget.

Speaker B: I started journaling and I was joking with my fiance. Like, I have. I write at a third grade level. I look back at the journal, it's like, I had good day. Me feel happy.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, the thing is you can also, I realize, like just voice to text on your phone and leave a note and then just copy paste, throw that into an email or something and email it to yourself or whatever. Like there's other ways to do it where you're like, I don't want to write. Like, I suck at writing writing because we both are very, um. How do I say this? Disadvantaged with our writing with our hands.

Speaker B: Writing by hand. Lefty in bed, dragging it across.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Becca handwrites in her journal and I'm just like, I her. She also has beautiful teacher handwriting. So I'm like, that's just not going to work for me.

Speaker B: Me sitting with a pen and a journal, like thinking of a chat GBT prompt in my head.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I'm like, how would I read?

Speaker A: Holding my pencil in a fist, just trying to write with a closed fist.

Speaker B: He's a guy I just want to hang out with.

Speaker A: He's the type of person we always talk about hanging out with.

Speaker C: 5.

Speaker A: You know, you're the average of the five people you hang out with.

Speaker B: Oh, if we could get him in our average, just four of them around us. Oh my God.

Speaker A: You good to go? He's not the type of guy who needs, you know, a little something to take the edge off at night. But I am.

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Speaker B: Constantly.

Speaker A: You are.

Speaker B: I idolize, you know Hermione Granger in Harry Potter with her little, um, thing that let her go to multiple classes at once. What was that called? You're a huge Potter nerd.

Speaker A: No, no, I was actually gonna say when I read the books before I ever heard the name. Do you know how, like, when you read, you make up your own pronunciations of names?

Speaker B: Of course.

Speaker A: She was Hermione to me.

Speaker B: Oh, well, that's what it looks like.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, oh, Hermione is. How you say that? That, like, blew my mind.

Speaker B: Movie comes out Mind blown.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I was like, well, changes everything.

Speaker A: Well, Hermione, you know those.

Speaker B: You know those fairy books that everyone reads?

Speaker A: I can imagine.

Speaker B: There. There's. The main character in them is, uh, Farah, but it's spelled like, so. Like, that's me reading. And there's all these big, like, mystical names. I'm just like. And then they saw the mystic, and I went over to the Forbidden Forest.

Speaker A: All they are is a picture of letters. Like, I imagine them as just, like, the symbol of these letters, not, like a pronunciation.

Speaker B: And that's on being dyslexic. Anyway, time bankruptcy for me is. It's an epidemic. I like. The reason I do the 5am workout class and I grind so hard is because I, uh. My day ends and I'm always flabbergasted. Where did the time go?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And I think I'm scrolling a lot, which you don't do. Which I'm very impressed by your time.

Speaker A: Impoverished, Cherished.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I'm, um, very. I feel very wealthy in multiple areas of my life.

Speaker A: But with time, I feel just a time peasant.

Speaker B: Yeah. And now planning a wedding, I'm like, how? I need. I need Hermione Granger's thing.

Speaker A: You gotta delegate that.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: Just plan it. Be done with it. Open bar band. That's all that matters. Open bar band.

Speaker B: Yeah, but.

Speaker A: And everyone will have a blast.

Speaker B: But what about the floating saxophone DJ in the after party?

Speaker A: Well, now you're asking the hard questions. I don't even know what that is. Yeah, the floor. Don't give a. About the florals.

Speaker B: You don't even know what that is. And you're gonna be riding the back of that saxophone artist like so excited. Wearing a neon hat.

Speaker A: I'm gonna be the saxophone artist.

Speaker B: You actually, uh, you have to. You have to bring your zagsbyos.

Speaker A: I don't have my saxophone anymore.

Speaker B: Okay? So time. Bankruptcy. Demoted.

Speaker A: Demoted.

Speaker B: It's. It's painful.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's painful.

Speaker B: Promoter. Demoted. Scarlet fever.

Speaker A: Scarlet fever. Yeah. A dear friend of mine, um, one of the members of the Dog Pound, which, again, is our group of bros who plays video, uh, games together.

Speaker B: Yeah. He suffers.

Speaker A: Kevin got. Yeah, sweet. Kev. He got a scarlet, ah, fever, which I'm pretty sure is from, like, 850 BC, back when the. Back when that really hit. You know, the old time sort of peasant.

Speaker B: Well, he's recovering from scurvy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Which is crazy.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Ah, he has a black tooth.

Speaker A: He's the kind of guy who. When you describe him, you're like, oh, that guy works on a pirate ship.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: But he doesn't. He's actually a, uh, tech bro. He's in tech sales, and he lives in San Diego. And, um, you know, he's a pretty good shot on the. On the sticks.

Speaker B: Where are the motorheads with scarlet fever at?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, if you've had scarlet fever, comment below, let us know. Let us know. He's covered in hives right now. He.

Speaker B: Is he okay? He's still recovering.

Speaker A: He's gonna survive, but he's not going to work today.

Speaker B: Was he. Is he, like, in the hospital? I actually don't know.

Speaker A: He did go to the ER in the middle, like, the first night we was playing. He thought so. He thought he's, like, allergic to bees. And he had some, like, cough drop. No, he had a cough drop that had. I know some. I don't know if it was, like, beeswax or something.

Speaker B: Honey. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. And he's like. Thought that his wife poisoned. It was poisoning him. Because he's like, how dare. Like, you gave me this thing and I'm allergic to it. And he's, like, blowing up. And he was talking. He's like, guys, I don't feel so great, but I'm down to play. And we're like, yeah, don't be a bitch, Kevin. We're playing.

Speaker B: So scarlet fever.

Speaker A: So then, like, two days later, say, yeah, so I have strep and scarlet fever.

Speaker B: I love blaming your wife for bringing you a cough drop.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, you're welcome, Kev.

Speaker A: Yeah. Body is covered in hives. So anyway, shout out to Kev. He's alive. We played last night.

Speaker B: Great. He's back.

Speaker A: We got it. We got a dub we got to win. So, um, scarlet fever promoted. Yeah. Well, if makes play well, you know, promote it. But I'm going to demote it.

Speaker B: He's better on the stick.

Speaker A: Yeah. All right, next one. Promoted. Demoted. Balsamic on ice cream.

Speaker B: You know, for me, not my thing. I'm not a savory mixed with sweet girl. I just want, like a caramel fudge.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Sugary, sugary. Lucky charms, Marshmallow delight.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's nice. Right? So, like, you go to salt and straw. That's going to be one of, like, the seasonal flavors.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Ah, I'm going to have a tiny little spoon just to test.

Speaker B: Of course I'll have a spoon. Of course.

Speaker A: That's tasty.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm going to go with the mint chip.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then I go with my chocolate gooey fudge, like I always do. But I want to try it. I appreciate when they can make that type of thing taste good.

Speaker B: I go in there and I am. I'm putting on a full one woman show.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that sounds interesting.

Speaker B: And so that the fourth one there that I wasn't able to try. Could I just take a little. Just a nibble of that? Because I'm not sure the olive oil cake topped with balsamic is looking a little interesting. I'd be remiss if I didn't try it.

Speaker A: How do you make stuffing tastes sweet? I mean, the Thanksgiving flavors. Yeah. You know what? I'll try that.

Speaker B: You know what?

Speaker A: I'll try that.

Speaker B: Cranberry. Cranberry sauce. Bring that over.

Speaker A: Ice cream for him. Sure. I'll give it a shot.

Speaker B: Great. And I'm apologizing the whole time, right? I'm like, oh, worst person walks in the front door.

Speaker A: You guys must go through a lot of spoons, thanks to me.

Speaker B: You're probably pissed I'm here.

Speaker A: They're like, ma' um am, you can try as many as you want. They're so kind.

Speaker B: They're so kind. They're like, you can. You want another one?

Speaker A: I work again. You're just using, like, my time. I'm.

Speaker B: You know what a wine tasting tasting, where they're like, do you want to revisit any of the wines that's literally salt and straw. Like, you want to revisit any of these? I'm like, well, now that I've had a full kid scoop, I guess for my main course, I'll do a large

Speaker A: chocolate brownie and a waffle cone.

Speaker B: I knew exactly what I wanted coming in.

Speaker A: And you look at some. You're like, I always do the same thing.

Speaker B: I don't know.

Speaker A: I always do the same thing. This is so me.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Anyway, I'm going to promote it.

Speaker B: Okay. I'm demoting.

Speaker A: Okay, Fair.

Speaker B: This promoter demoted. I want to hear your update on this. Golf dates. I saw you did a little AMA on your story. How did that blow over with the fans?

Speaker A: Tens of people saw it, so it was fine.

Speaker B: Yeah, it got, like, 10 views.

Speaker A: Yeah. Got 10 views. Uh, yeah, for those who don't check in on me, which is fine. Whatever I'm doing. Well, um, I did an AMA with Becca on your story of an unveiling of sorts. And we were playing golf, and it was great. And Fishy was with the grandparents, parents that looked adorable.

Speaker B: You were on a date?

Speaker A: We were on a date. We got, uh, some transfusions, a couple doubles, double double T's, you know, and. And played some G. And it was great. We played a full 18. In fact, the next day, we brought Fishy on his first golf out. He was in the car seat in the golf cart.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And he was so chill the whole time.

Speaker B: Do you guys just, like, love. Golly. Does Becca love golf as much as you?

Speaker A: Uh, she loves. She loves golf, but she's not going to play every day. She likes to play 18. She keeps her score and everything.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Like, she's good enough now. Where she, like, feels excited by it.

Speaker B: That's great.

Speaker A: But I don't. She's like, you know, you do yours

Speaker B: on the men's tees and then drive to ladies and do that. That's how you play, like, as a twosome.

Speaker C: Great.

Speaker B: Yeah. I wouldn't know. I can't play 18, and then I

Speaker A: go coach pee on her. And we. We work on some. Yeah, she's been dialing it in lately. She's not good. I mean, she shoots like a 130, but it's. It's. She counts her scores.

Speaker B: Hey, she's counting.

Speaker A: Yeah, she's counting. And so she's now at that point where she's. She knows what it feels like to hit the ball far and well.

Speaker B: Nice. Yeah, I would love to know that feeling.

Speaker A: Okay, well, that's promoted to.

Speaker B: Let's get into a little deer demoted. Give the followers some advice.

Speaker A: The type of thing that is probably not going to be actionable, but could be entertaining.

Speaker B: We don't know the real expert left, so let's read this one.

Speaker A: Hey, guys, first of all, love the pod. I've been a motorhead since the very beginning. Keep up. The great work. Anyways, my whole life I was told to go into tech sales. That's where all the money is. So that's exactly what I did. I was told to go to a startup to get in early and get paid out but made 60k basis there. Then I was told to go work at a Fang to make more money and that's exactly what I did. I worked at a Fang for 3 years with a 75k base but every year I worked there I could close more deals but the commission got smaller and smaller due to comp structure changes. That's huh tales oldest time. Now I work at another large company and make 100k base. Although the pay bump is nice. I haven't made any life changing money with inflation and life expenses. A woman on my team told me that year she got married she made 700k on a large deal and that was in the early 2000s. I went into sales for the money and I know I'm good at my job but I can't seem to find life changing money. I'm saving up for a wedding, struggling to pay rent and can't even start saving on a house yet. So my question to you guys, is the tech sales millionaire dream dead?

Speaker B: A lot of what I'm hearing in this is I was told so I did this. Which is like maybe you have a great mentor that you're going to, to you know, seek advice. But I think it's time for you to take a little control of your path in your life and figure out what you want to do and what you're really good at.

Speaker A: Yeah, well they think they're, they're good at sales. It doesn't sound like they're missing quota or anything.

Speaker B: No, it doesn't sou like you're missing quota. It's weird though. I have some friends in sales who are just making absolute bank right now.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Similarly saving up for weddings. 700k was their total comp last year. It's. I like just spoke with a gal.

Speaker A: Yeah, the Fang thing is tough. Um, there are a lot less tech sales millionaires than there were. However they uh, it still exists and a lot of that is at the AI company companies, the OpenAI's, the Anthropics. You know. I will say Amazon is also a good one. You'll find, you'll find uh, for the startup thing it's not really about the cash that you're making, the commission you're making the life changing money happens when you, when the company IPOs, um, you get a Bunch of shares and that is life changing money or you work at a place like Salesforce in the early 2000s. In fact this last weekend I played golf with a guy who, who was staying at his second house in Tahoe that was bought because he worked at Salesforce from like 08 to 18.

Speaker B: I'm currently renting from a guy who his company ipod bought the place. Just absolute making bank monthly on this new property. It doesn't, it's not uncommon, but it's hard.

Speaker A: It's hard. And like especially with a startup thing, you're kind of putting your money on a lottery ticket. You gotta pick the right one and that's a really hard thing to do. There are people out there that just know how to pick them. They go from, you know, Oracle to Salesforce and they'll go to like a uh, gong or a Rubrik. You know, there are these companies that it is like you kind of need to be the top rep at a growing company in an enterprise patch, in a good patch, meaning you're selling to the biggest companies, the biggest deals. And that's where you can break the comp plan every year at a big company. And I always talk about this sort of graph is up into the right early on the company wins and the rep is winning and as the company gets bigger, the rep line starts to sort of flatten out and the company keeps, you know, making more and more money and the rep sort of upside flattens and so they continue to readjust the comp plan so that you can't break it. You know, you want to make 700k. That's when you break a comp plan. When you have, when you hit, you know, 3,000% of quota because you got a $5 million deal and your quota was actually 250k. And that's really hard to find and really hard, you know, really less, uh, frequent nowadays because companies are putting in windfall clauses which a windfall clause is basically says, hey, if you break the comp plan over a certain percent, like we're not going to pay you out a million dollars. We don't have dollars to give you.

Speaker B: So you're like, what's the point, dude?

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: What's the point? You know, And I would argue that founders should pay that because the valuation of the company has gone up significantly. Now you've got another million dollars of ARR and you should reward that rep. But the reality is that doesn't happen as much. So the places that I hear like an Amazon, for example, the work life balance is terrible. The culture is terrible. There is a price to be paid. You know, then. Then there's places like Rubrik where, where culture is good. But if you're not performing like you're gone really fast, really fast. They hire a fire really fast. Really good company, really good product. But if you're not do it, getting it done like you're. You don't have a lot of leeway.

Speaker B: My friend was working at door to door kind of in person sales. Paycom.

Speaker A: Yeah, Paycom.

Speaker B: And just getting huge commission.

Speaker A: Um, they make a lot of money. But similarly the culture there, I mean people have sent me a lot. Quite a bit of stories about Paycom.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But you, if you're successful at a Paycom, you make a shitload of money.

Speaker B: But that's to say you don't have to be in tax tech. Like kind of the allure of tech. Maybe it doesn't. You can widen your scope of what you're looking at.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is like tech is sexy. Tech. Tech is always going to be here. It's the future. I do think if you're gonna go find those. If Fang. It's not Fang anymore. It is, it is the AI companies, it is the nvidias, the chips.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Like that's where you're gonna find the biggest money. Um, I do think the tech sales millionaire thing at like 22, 23 is, is more m or less gone.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You'll be 27 at that point and hopefully the company's IPO or you know, blown up in some huge way. I have a couple friends who were at Samsara, got uh, there at 2016. I don't know, they IPO'd. And I want to say like 20, 22 or 3. They made, you know, a couple million bucks. Wasn't like again, that's, that is a lot of money. But they're off to, you know, now AI companies to go to go continue, you know, trying to pick the next one winner.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Right. Like a couple million bucks. They, they're not retiring on a couple million bucks. You know, they live in the Bay Area. They want to have families and you

Speaker B: know, entry level salespeople, SDRs, AES kind of doing side gigs and are they like moonlighting and selling for other companies? I remember I was reminiscing with my brother this past weekend during COVID We both were SDRs for this company. I. I completely forgot about this chapter of my life. It was called Cogniz and it was a like thermal heat detector. Basically, like A fever detector that would go on the entryway of. And they hired this fleet of SDRs with zero experience. Just like full 100% commission. I didn't close a single deal. Obviously I'm horrible at sales. My brother learned quickly. He loved sales. He closed the biggest deal with this like rich school in Georgia. Anyway, like we were doing that in the side. I was working at Deloitte at the time. Doing that on the side. Yeah, obviously for $0. But like do salespeople do this kind of moonlighting stuff or is that less common?

Speaker A: So that brings up actually a really interesting story that just broke this last week. This guy based in India, his name, I'm going to butcher it. Soham, uh, Park Parker. Worked at four or five different AI companies at the same time. Like a talented coder. More importantly, a really good sales guy who would reach out to these companies, just super passionate about what they're doing.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: He would get fired for underperformance. He said he would work 20 hour days, sleep for four every time these, these CEO. And he got fired from like five or 10 different companies because they caught him working at other companies. But he would just go to the next one. He was such a good sales guy for himself and such a, like talented coach coder. He would get in. What would that role be?

Speaker B: Like, sales engineer?

Speaker A: No, no, he was just, he was good at selling himself. He was just a coder. He was a developer.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And so he'd be writing code, which he was good at. But he couldn't sustain all these companies at once.

Speaker B: Also, there's so many like trade secrets right now with AI companies. They're like, do you. Obviously you can't be working at the top five ones.

Speaker A: But. But he got caught.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it set off this whole debate on remote work. And people like this guy just set remote workers back years because, you know, CEOs are always worried, are you working for someone else? Are you doing. It's technically not in some states. It's not illegal. You just have to disclose it. And of course companies will be like, no, this is your full time job. Like, how can you expect to, you know, work for four companies at once and get the job done that needs to get done? So a camera, the name of the CEO, but tweeted about, he's like, if you see this guy's resume, like, beware. And then all these other CEOs, like on X were like, wait, that guy worked for us too. We fired him for the same thing.

Speaker B: No way.

Speaker A: And this guy was still working for three or four jobs. He fact just got hired by some other company to. He's like, as my sole job.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, he came out and like announced that. Yeah, he came out about my one. Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah. Uh, but I mean it does beg the question, like, are there sellers that are working for multiple companies at once? Probably, yeah, probably.

Speaker B: I had a friend working at a robotics company and then would stay up at night and do sales, like just full email SDR work and was like ripping two jobs.

Speaker A: Also another great, uh, place to be selling robotics a great spot.

Speaker B: Oh yeah.

Speaker A: Robotics ain't going anywhere. So anyway, long. That was a long winded answer. That was.

Speaker B: But that was exciting. Great story. And yeah, so I guess maybe don't take our advice on doing multiple things at once unless you really are covering your tracks. Two different industries I think is helpful too.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's about finding products that are expensive. You know, to make big money, you need to sell expensive things.

Speaker B: That's great advice.

Speaker A: That's just period. Like if you're going to meta, you know, with part of the fang, like you're potentially selling ads, like, those aren't very expensive. You know, you want to sell the high tech stuff like aws. So anyway, thank you for that great question.

Speaker B: I hope you find your way and keep us posted.

Speaker A: Yeah, keep us posted.

Speaker B: Can I read this review?

Speaker A: Yes, please.

Speaker B: This is From Movie Lover, 385073. You know when you make that username and it just like stays, I have

Speaker A: your so fascinating, like gamer tags on the Internet. I'm like, this guy's name is that

Speaker B: like how, like, I don't know.

Speaker A: Who is the human behind this name?

Speaker B: This person loves movies.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I've been following Dr. Emily on Halt for years now. So when I saw that she was a guest on Demoted, I added it to the list. Not only was Dr. Emily's episode amazing, seriously, give it a listen. But the whole podcast is awesome and I'll be listening every week.

Speaker A: Let's go.

Speaker B: Great to hear. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Doc M was a beast. She was absolutely great. Doc M. Doc M. Doc M. Um, anyway, I'll read this next one. This is titled Emotional Strength Episode by T Pen 15.

Speaker B: Pen 15. 15.

Speaker A: Damn it. It's T Penis.

Speaker B: Shoot.

Speaker A: T Pen 15. Damn it.

Speaker B: Well, that's. That's a motorhead if I've ever seen one.

Speaker A: All right, here's what they said. Uh, God damn it. Love this episode. So fun and great info and tips. Good work to the people who just

Speaker B: take the time to just write a review. Thank you.

Speaker A: Even if it's like just loose English.

Speaker B: If it's just like good job.

Speaker A: Yeah, good job. Five stars.

Speaker B: We're thankful.

Speaker A: We're so thankful.

Speaker B: So thank you to these two reviewers. If you're listening to the POD and you're not a reviewer, look in the mirror and ask yourself why.

Speaker A: Why? You disgust me.

Speaker B: As always, send us your corporate confessions. Dear demoted. Uh, and shout outs to the submission form. Um, on our website.

Speaker A: Don't time bankrupt that subscribe button. You're going to want to fill it with wealth. In fact, throw demoted in your slack channel or your team's channel and say hey guys, phenomenal. Listen, you guys should check this out. Ross tells a story about getting a prostate exam that should get everybody fired up to come Listen.

Speaker B: That should.

Speaker A: Or you could talk about emotional strength. Either one. I don't care.

Speaker B: I guess. And tune in next week on tomorrow that,

Speaker A: Uh, Demoted.