AI Won't Replace Your CMO. But It Will Expose the Ones Who Struggle - Part 2

Speaker A: I wonder if it's going to be more important to hire neurodiverse, divergent thinkers that can work with AI, because AI is really good at convergent thinking and summarizing what happened in the past. Hello, Gary. Great to see you. And, uh, welcome to, um, our first Exit Ready podcast, Part two.

Speaker B: People frequently tell me I have a lot to say. Not always is everyone interested to hear what I have to say? So thanks. Well, we're marketing people.

Speaker A: We're marketing people, so we always have a lot to say. Right. So in this second topic, we're going to talk about. AI won't replace your cmo, but it'll expose the ones who struggle. And your role now at Insight Partners is operating partner for AI transformation. So you're right at the crosshairs of what's going on with AI in this huge disruptive innovation. I mean, I'm astonished at what AI. I work on AI all the time. I think, uh, the risk is AI makes, uh, you a lot more adhd. I've got a pile about this high of wonderful projects I printed out because I don't want to forget them and I've got to get to them. So it's a fantastic area. So you've moved from running the marketing coe, um, which is really extensive at Insight Partners, to AI transformation. We talk a little bit about that, how that transition's been and, uh, what your daily work is these days.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, I think part of the reality is, doesn't matter what center of excellence in you are you, you are functioning in today, that you're working in the AI world. Like your job all day, every day is around AI. So it's not just my job, it is, uh, everyone's job to help our portfolio companies in this incredible transition that's going on. In my role, what I try to do, which is, uh, as you might imagine, exhausting, is I have to keep on what it is that is happening and trying to get some signal through the noise. Um, and I'm looking at multiple levers and broader than I ever had. So my discussions could be in product. My discussions can be around the full go to market, not just marketing. Um, I'm trying to understand. I work a lot with CEOs just to understand what they're trying to achieve, what are the challenges. And I break down, uh, I have this image that I show folks, and it's a engine and a fuel tank. And on, um, the fuel tank is all the things that, you know, you need for AI. That can be all the change management incentives Data cleanliness. And the list goes on. And all of them are important, and I call those accelerators, but not one of them actually delivers roi. On the other side is the engine that the fuel is powering, and these are the value creation levers. These are truly the projects which you can directly tie to either increasing your revenue or changing your cost structure to increase your gross margin.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And, um, so doing, you know, what folks are really focused on, should be focused on is not activity, because a lot of organizations are rewarding. Look, we have 100 people certified on Claude. Who cares?

Speaker A: Right? What's that get you? What's the output of this?

Speaker B: Show me the impact. I want impact. And I want you to show me how your AI initiatives connect to impact. Not random acts of AI.

Speaker A: Right. Random acts of marketing we always talk about. Right. Um, and what do you see more of? Do you see more of, um, AI helping with growth, Productive, intelligent growth, or reducing costs? I know there's both, but what do you see more of and what would you like to see more of?

Speaker B: So, I'm sorry, I want my cake. And I want to eat it, too. Of course, uh, if you're knocking it out of the park in the product, I want to see you driving more efficiency. If you're driving efficiency but your revenue isn't being driven by AI, uh, products, I absolutely need to see that. And part of this challenge, I think, um, realistically, no one is behind. They could be slower on the uptake, but no one is behind. The capacity to close that gap is within everyone's reach. And we've seen it at multiple portfolio companies where they've had to see the light on what their product needs to be going forward, or they need to understand how to restructure the way they do business or way they develop software or way that they go to market. And all of that is good. And I think, you know, we get to see, you know, with the number of portfolio companies that we have, we're like every combination permutation of what is going on on this continuum. There are very few that are just already knocking it out of the park. But we have them.

Speaker A: Right? Right. And.

Speaker B: But we have a whole bunch in the messy middle of this transition and, you know, working to get traction and trying to move quick enough. I have this slide I show people all the time of, um, the story of the tortoise and the hare, where, you know, it's a lovely parable where, you know, slow and steady wins the race. And I say, unfortunately, that's no longer true, because then I bring up the next picture of the turtle in a crocodile's mouth, which basically says if you're too slow, the crocodile is just going

Speaker A: to eat you right in this environment.

Speaker B: One, one speed fast, you need to move fast.

Speaker A: When you look across the inside portfolios, uh, you know, Portcos, what's um, the biggest gap you see between companies that think they're doing a good job with AI versus the ones that really are.

Speaker B: I mean it's if you can come to your board meeting and show me how every function in your organization is contributing to, to the growth paradigm or the efficiency paradigm, what every leader has signed up for that stake in the ground is job one. The second thing I will say is if the CEO is not rabid about this. I always had a saying that like I love paranoid CEOs like paranoia driving your activity like that someone's going to beat me, someone's going to destroy me, I'm going to be irrelevant. I want to hear that and I'm going to change my business to do that. That's the difference. Like without a doubt it's the CEO and it's having clear goals.

Speaker A: Yep, that's great. And it's really, I mean when I think about it, it's change management is critical. Having quality data and quality processes underneath what you do with AI and then not just looking at point solutions of AI, but how you, I think Latin said that you've got crumbs or you've got a cake that you put together and you remember that. Um. Is there an AI readiness component that you're beginning to use for marketing organizations within the portfolio?

Speaker B: Yes. I mean we do have a framework of organization, all of those accelerators that you should be working on. But I also will say that we won't delay activity because one of those things isn't in place.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I will. I'll also, you know, just give you a uh, uh, view into what my conversations are with CMOs and CEOs around this. I said I'm going to give you an approach. I'm going to give you an absolute blueprint of what you need to be doing here. I am not going to do it for you.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Your team is going to need to do this and I'm going to be honest with you, your folks don't know enough about AI in order to do this. They probably don't have the bandwidth to do this. And ultimately you're probably going to need a third party to come in to jumpstart this.

Speaker A: Right. Whenever I've asked a Question about change management with AI, I've asked a lot of experts that work on it all the time, what percent of the folks move along versus not. And usually two thirds, one third is what I've heard a couple times. I don't know if you see that also in your portfolio companies. But um, yeah, I mean, a lot of change.

Speaker B: It depends. You know, the things that we always valued in the best employees are still valued. Curiosity, your capacity to work through complicated things and not just hit the easy button because AI gives you an easy button. But we're rapidly coming into this, you know, AI slop world of absolutely incredible, um, similarity. I'm, I'm watching it now in PowerPoints, how everyone's PowerPoints all look the same

Speaker A: and people are lazy a lot, a lot of times using AI and it's.

Speaker B: Yes, yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Creating a sea of sameness.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I believe the research that shows pretty clearly when we don't engage with AI, we, we lose the capacity which is around our key skills. And I, I mentioned three key human skills. I'm like, I'm on Team Human. I want us to win.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And still be in the game. And you know, the first one, which is, I think obvious is judgment. Like just having the judgment of right and wrong and what's there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The second one is empathy. Now empathy is not me caring about you and giving you big hugs. Empathy is me understanding from the market what it is that you care about, what it is that you. That is not just what the data shows, it's not just what you read, but like your capacity to look a little deeper. And then the last one, um, which kind of takes all that together is your role as validator and, and getting validation. And I think that, you know, as we embrace the changing roles in organizations to embrace what humans do uniquely well, especially today.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Can't tell you what five years from now is, but I can tell you today. And so like, you know, I give a lot of discussions about the future of the marketing org and you know, our future of the finance org, you know, and it doesn't. The message is always the same, is that we are rebundling organizations and rebundling is a very deliberate motion. It's one that we're going to re envision tasks and then we're going to re envision workflows and then we're going to re envision roles and then we're going to re envision the actual orc. And in that, uh, rebundling activity, we're going to have to really understand what these new hybrid roles are, where people and agents are working together and understanding everyone's skills there.

Speaker A: I wonder if it's going to be more important to hire Neurodiverse divergent thinkers that can work with AI because AI is really good at convergent thinking and summarizing what happened in the past, but not very good at divergent thinking and breakthrough thinking. And you know, Neurodiverse folks may not be the best cultural fit in organizations always, but they ask questions to get the organization thinking. But I wonder if you've thought about that.

Speaker B: I had read an article about this not that long ago, and it was interesting to me because it really keys in to your point about what we need in terms of human impact in an organization. And some people, and I laugh, I'm sure you have the same issues. But I go and I talk to some friends at a dinner or something, and my world is different than theirs. All I do, all day, every day is think of AI but like, I'm just shocked that they have no idea what is coming down the pike and what.

Speaker A: No, I see that too.

Speaker B: And I'll tell you this one little story. I was at a, uh, conference, uh, uh, a week or two ago, and there was a gentleman, super, um, cool, um, the former head of AI at NASA and he wrote, has written a new book. And he was talking to the audience about all of the changes that are coming down the pike. And the audience was aghast like you. You could just feel that this group just couldn't like, understand this is such a negative message in their mind. And I had spent some time with him and I got to know him well and we were talking afterwards and he goes, and that was my PG13 version of this. And like, the truth is it's not necessarily Armageddon. It doesn't have. We don't have to have the dystopian view. I, uh, used to use these slides which said you can either have the Matrix model where it all goes to shit and dystopian world, or the Iron man model, or Jarvis is helping everyone to do this. I choose Jarvis. And that sort of point of view is. I believe in the tug of war between realism and optimism. I remain incredibly optimistic, but super realistic about what's happening and careful.

Speaker A: Are you a Star Trek fan, by the way?

Speaker B: I have not watched Star Trek in

Speaker A: a very long time because there was something years ago, Dr. Daystrom, who had this M M5. It was, you know, smart and they. But it goofed up and, uh, they started killing uh, starship, uh, people, because it couldn't differentiate between the two. And that was the Armageddon, and that was.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Years ago.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right. Um, but we, we talk also, you know, a lot about agents and, you know, what is the role of humans and, and how, and I think, um, I'll use cybersecurity as an example. It's, it's really hard for me to imagine in the short term, and when I say short term, I mean next two to three years, that any organization is going to be comfortable with agents just making wholesale changes on security. Shit, without humans really seeing this, there will be, as with everything, you know, levels of damage that could be done and risk assessments against all that. And I think, you know, part of this is for us to embrace again, as I said, those uniquely human roles where we're going to have these, in these newly designed workflows and orgs where people have very different responsibilities but at the same time are incredibly critical to the success of that organization. It's just different.

Speaker A: Yes. When you're interviewing CMO candidates, how do you probe for genuine AI transformation capabilities? So I'm sure that's very high on your list these days, Gary.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think there are two places. Um, and this, this comes out often. You know, the first, which is like the, the easy one to me is, what did you talk about unprompted? Like, do your answers, are they laced with AI? Are they, are all of the, the approaches and examples showing me how you're leveraging AI?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Or is it the same discussion I might have had five years ago? Um, so that to me is not a question. It is just. And it's the same thing, by the way. You know, if you're looking for a quantitative CEO, a, uh, cmo, and no answers include any numbers in what you've done, I'm like, how quantitative could you be when you reference a number once in our discussion? Um, so that, that's number one. Number two, I really, um, I'm coming to a point of view that says there is no excuse for anyone in a CMO role to not be a great leverager of AI tools.

Speaker A: Yes, I agree.

Speaker B: And if, if the CMO is just outsourcing that or not. So my questions are always about, like, tell me what you've built recently. Um, that has been impactful in the business and personally, what they're, you know what? Right. But I, I, I try not to ask the personal one because at some level, that's your easy entree point. Your easy entree point is what what's frustrating me today. And I'm going to create a solution to it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It could be something super simple or of like how to get to Starbucks more easily. In any city I go to, I'm going to create an app that just is like where the cities I'm in, that's where the Starbucks is like great. But the, the, the more, you know, I think important skill is the level of sophistication about what it is you're developing, how technical you are. And I'm by the way seeing that in CEOs too. Like I want product CEOs. I want technical CEOs. I don't want visionary CEOs. I don't want finance CEOs. The one folks that are going to get in and get this product where it needs to be.

Speaker A: Yeah. There's a great book by Jeff woods called the AI driven leader and what he does, he works with CEOs to help them use AI as a thought partner.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Which I think is really, really interesting.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: companies that are AI native, which is easier if you're a startup versus those that retrofit AI. What differences are you seeing in the difficulty?

Speaker B: The CEOs that tell me, wow, I would love to be in a room with three engineers and myself and I could create a company. Um, but Unfortunately I got 150 people or 300 people or thousand people and, and it's not that easy. And so I think the challenge for so many of these CEOs and CMOs is they have an infrastructure, they have all of the people in place doing things. And most people are not business process re engineering specialists. And so if at the core is I need to re engineer my business, but I have no one to do that again, I'm bringing a third party because at some level, um, you need to grasp that as I said, speed matters. And I, and I need to get to new approaches. I didn't say perfect, I said new approaches. There is a crawl walk run to everything. And you know, if you try to solve world hunger with your initiatives, by the time you're done, it won't frigging matter.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Like the, the, the idea is you want agile and you want the capacity to really think about changing it. And it's hard for these organizations because you're literally changing the wings while you're flying.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Change management is huge numbers and still have like, like. And all of that is weighing on you in addition to your new job to reinvent your business.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: And so like the same thing is going on with every CMO. Because the CMOs that aren't reinventing, uh, what marketing is in, those organizations are going to have a much, you know, shorter half life.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And, and I think for, for a role that already is struggling to stay in place.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Clearly a new accelerant to that issue and opportunity too.

Speaker A: Um, what's the most impressive application of AI uh you've seen so far in marketing? Or maybe a couple of examples that impress someone like you where not easy.

Speaker B: I have one CEO who I was talking to sort of on another topic and he offhandedly said, and I got rid of all enablement. I'm like, what I got rid of. I fired my enablement team. I'm like, huh? So we then dug in and what he did in which we believe is at the core of developing all great um, systems going forward is you start with a knowledge base. And I didn't say knowledge graph, I said a knowledge base. Like you need to bring in all of this information around your icp, around your go to market motions around your product, all the product elements that are there. And this is different than those initiatives where you were moving everything to snowflake. This is a very different kind of initiative of how you were structuring this, what you're trying to get out of it. But what this guy was able to do was basically like change the paradigm of enabling his organization because he understood the new reality. The new reality is we're in a continuous product release cycle. And with a continuous product release cycle, product marketing is always just behind like there, there are no triggers to get it. It's stale it like the whole thing. And that leads into something I believe which is, you know, too many organizations are solving yesterday's problems, not tomorrow's.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: There should be no one who is working on battle cards today. That should never exist if you're working on battle cards. Stop the insanity now.

Speaker A: Yeah, get out of the 90s.

Speaker B: How about the golden pitch deck? Absolutely ridiculous. Okay. And so what this guy was able to do was basically create a enable, uh, a uh, company wide enablement tool. Both for, it does training for onboarding, it does the capacity to get CS people like everyone is being enabled now. That's great with constantly updated information and I love that because it's a smaller organization. But he already saw that what was going to happen is this train is leaving the station is picking up steam and I'm just going to have to keep adding enablement people. And like I don't want to do that. I want to change the Curve I want to no longer be this revenue means this number of people. And I think that, you know, those kinds of solutions are just incredible for me.

Speaker A: That's great. If you were a CMO today that felt behind on AI, what would you advise them to do in the next 90 days?

Speaker B: Well, first, first of all, like, you need to do two things at a basic level. Choose a great information source. I don't care what you choose. I personally like Paul Rutzer's marketing, um, AI show and his view of the world and like great, like know what's happening in a not like overwhelming amount, but like a weekly summary of these things and let me try to make sense of it so you have a point of view on AI number one. Number two is never, it's never been easier to learn. Like I like to say all the time, I don't know how to spell JSON, but that's not stopping me from getting JSON code all day long.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: I had an app that I put together and um, my security team internally said you need to host this in a very different way. What you're doing here is too janky for us and not secure. And I'm like, okay, I'll change it. So tell me what you want me to do and we put it over to git. Well, I've never worked in git, but that doesn't mean that I can't just go right in there, take screenshots, tell me what this is, where to go, how to do what I'm missing, what are the steps? Like, it's like a tutor on everything that you want to do. So yes, you could go online and there's courses you can do and please, awesome. But that's not going to replace you just rolling up your seat, jump in and do something to do and start doing it.

Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. So Gary, as we wind down, I have one more question. You ever get tired of talking about AI?

Speaker B: Well, my wife would like me to stop talking about it. I bet my wife too exhausted about it. But I don't get tired. Um, primarily because M. My inherent being is curiosity. I just love new and changing and yes, it's a absolute fire hose of change and information that I'm trying to make sense of. And you know, this week it's codex thing and three things launched yesterday with anthropic and like I'm gonna get to it all eventually. But like it is just never been a better time as you were mentioning to be a marketer. It's never been a better time like to be thinking about these things. This is like, super exciting. And the more people just say, hey, look, uh, and I say this lovingly, like, you know, we're two old dogs, but that doesn't mean we can't learn some new tricks. And it's fun. And, ah, that's the best part.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. You know, and you're a college professor also, at Wharton. Right? You know, and, uh, uh, I've done that at Emerson in Boston. And it's, uh, doesn't pay the greatest, but it's so much fun. I've taught some grad courses in marketing and bringing marketing and finance together. Because I started in finance and then, you know, got into marketing and general management most of my career. But, uh, no, it's, uh, it's a great time to be in marketing. It's disruptive, it's a little scary, but jump in. And, uh, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a great con. Two conversations, Gary. Thank you.

Speaker B: I really appreciate you having me. This is fun.

Speaker A: Absolutely.