Ep 89: Putting People First in Customer Experience with Kyle Wright

Speaker A: Welcome to the Customer Service Goldust podcast. This is the UK's only podcast where customer experience professionals share their journey, insights, challenges and current focus in an ever changing customer service landscape. My name is Gavin Scott and I invite you to join us as we delve into another great conversation. Whether you want to increase customer satisfaction or decrease customer complaints, sure to be plenty of gold dust will help you to stand out. Hello and welcome to the Customer Service Gold Dust podcast. I'm m, your host Gavin Scott and today's guest is the head of customer experience at uh, the South Yorkshire Merrill Combined Authority. Okay. I saw a recent post of his on LinkedIn and I thought, you know what, we've got a lot in common. And so I need to get this guy onto the podcast, I need to get connected with him and that's what we did. And he literally lives just around the corner from me here in Doncaster. So let's give a uh, warm welcome to Kyle Wright. Kyle, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker B: Morning Gavin.

Speaker A: You're right, great to have you. So, so tell us, whereabouts is it that you, you live in South Yorkshire then?

Speaker B: Um, so I'm in Rotherham. Um, so grew up, grew up in Maltby, which obviously isn't far from far from Doncaster and bought away, um, went over to Sheffield, come back to Rotherham. Glad to be back in Rotherham, it feels like home. Been here. So uh, yeah, South Yorkshire born and bred really.

Speaker A: And then we had a conversation, didn't we? Because um, one of the, one of them as a, I think many of the, the listeners will know that uh, aside from doing this uh, during the week at the weekend, I'm a semi professional referee and one of my fixtures was uh, at Maltby Maine, um, a few years ago when I was observed uh, by one of the key uh, observers from the fa and so uh, that's not too far from you then is it? Malby, Maine or. Originally you said you were from there, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, from Malby. I remember I uh, I were only 15 I think when I kind of played for the junior team at uh, Malde Berg Salt. We're kind of multi mains little junior team and they said oh, you got any, any center hours for a Wednesday? Because I think obviously it's semi pro. Everybody were kind of working, they were like, yeah, yeah, we'll throw in this, this young kid, so about 15 year old skinny ginger kid from mobi sat on bench, uh, got added an envelope at end at game with some cashing and I didn't even come out. So best days work. I Did for a long time.

Speaker A: Love that. Always great to get a little uh, a little brown envelope at the end of the fiction and you didn't even, didn't even get a, didn't even get managed to get on but you still got some cash.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah take that definitely every time.

Speaker A: Um, love it. Okay so listen, so tell us a little bit about your background then and uh, you know your journey in custody from experience then Kyle.

Speaker B: So uh, career wise, um, did all the usual things uh a young kid did. Uh, I went, went to university. I actually left within three weeks. Um university. Went to work full time. Um so working between shops and pubs and, and whatnot. So obviously talking to people, talking to everybody. Um went on to work in car workshops. Ah so kind of office based but dealing again with the customers. Went um, on to a company called the Mansfield Group Recovery company doing same there. And then I got a phone call from um, from someone saying oh there's a, there's a data role South Yorkshire mca. Well back in the day it was a sip to so South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive um at the time uh went in uh, it was somebody's maternity cover. So I went in nearly uh 11 years ago now. Got uh, the job, doing the same job I was doing a data officer role up until two and a half years ago and two and a half years ago the, the data manager left so went for that role, got that role and then the service information manager who was kind of the manager overseeing the entire team. So the data team, products team and our real uh time information team they left. I applied for that, got that job and then my boss at the time who was the head of customer operations, he's gone onto a different role within the organization. So I applied for that, got that on an interim basis then was met permanent about four months ago. So in the space of 30 months uh, it's been a bit while really uh to kind of go from this officer role to now you know looking after the entire CX function at simca. So that's the contact center, the interchanges. So managing the people running the interchanges and the disruptions team within the contact center and then any travel information so your on street timetables, your real time information, your journey planning tools. Heavily involved in the, the Trouble South Yorkshire app. So yeah it's been a bit, a bit of a wild, wild journey about last you know two and a half, two and a half years or so.

Speaker A: And then if we think about, I can't step over the fact that you said that you you went to university and then after three weeks you were, you, you left and got a job. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I um, so silly me, went to university for the wrong reasons. You know, uh, like we said, played football as a kid. I kind of wanted to go there, play ah, football and have that same feel that I had at school and college, you know, with the football lads. And you kind of went to your lessons but you know, that was why you're there. And I remember going on the coach to the, to the trails and somebody uh, had, somebody knew me because I played for South Yorkshire and they said um, oh, we're just going to let you know you probably won't get into the first team here because you know we're going to let everybody else always be there for last year and you know, two years, three years, we're going to give them a chance in that first team. And I'm like, but what if I'm better than them? And they were like, well that's just how it is here. And I can remember thinking that's a bit odd. And this was coming from the team captains and stuff rather than the coaches. So it was the captains kind of deciding the teams at, back then. And so that kind of threw me a bit. And you know, like I said, I went, went to it for them reasons rather than the, the academic reasons. And when that kind of happened. But I lost my head a little bit and it were like, oh, just need to get out and you know, do what's right for me now and then. Yeah, a, uh, long journey from, like I said, working as a waiter and a, working in a convenience store and whatnot, uh, all the way, all the way to here without, you know, without a degree really just a good conversation and good uh, with people and experience now.

Speaker A: Well, this is it. And you know, when you think about it, you know, in, in the customer experience world, you know, one of the things that you've got to be good at is that ability to have a good conversation. Right? And it sounds like that's definitely something, uh, um, is within, within your wheelhouse, uh, having that ability to do that. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. With the, the experience in different, different roles that are then also, like I said, sporting background. I always credit my sporting background to uh, how far I've got in my professional life to this point. Um, you know, you always were chucked into teams with, you know, some lads that you never knew and brand new coaches or having to switch different teams and whatnot and you just have to get on with it and Talk to people and you'll find friends and you'll find, you know, what's in common. You know, what, what I've got in common with these, these people, these either men that are 20 years older than me were back when I first started playing Sunny League County Senior and whatnot. Or then, you know, being the older head and then the young kids coming in, you know, what have I got in common with them? I can I. How can I take them on that journey? And then, you know, that along with the customer experience side of speaking to people that were unhappy with food orders or ordering drinks to, you know, people's cars were breaking down and I had to deal with that. And, and then now, uh, it's public transport, which, you know, you don't get any feedback on because if it works as it should do, it should be as easy as breathing. So really, you don't get no feedback on that. With the negative stuff that we really, really hear about a lot of the time. So it's important for us to internally think about our successes because externally it's not something we get a lot from this is it?

Speaker A: You know, if everything is working fine, then ultimately you're not going to get a huge amount of feedback from the, um, people who use the public transport. And that's a good sign then, right? You know, if, uh, things are quiet, then everything's running smoothly.

Speaker B: Exactly, yeah. I mean, if you, if you look at like our, uh, complaints and stuff and people go, wow, that's, that's a lot of complaints. You're like, yeah, but how many people are actually getting on buses and the super tram, uh, and trains? And so in, in the grand scheme of things, it's not. And sometimes a lot of the complaints aren't things we can really affect is, you know, somebody's got some roadworks on their road and, you know, buses not going there. So people complain. You go, well, you know, really sorry about that. You know, we've got your information, we can tell you where to go and point you in the right direction, maybe take some feedback on, you know, how could we have got that information to you rather than you coming to us about that? Uh, how can we be more proactive about that? But yeah, it's a lot of the complaints and a lot of things we can deal with. Um, and then it is just, you know, what can we do with each one of them? But yeah, as far as I'm concerned, public transport, if, you know, if someone's going to a doctor's order, you know, a doctor's appointment or an important meeting or they're going to work, you know, last thing they should be worrying about is, you know, getting the right information to them or having that a bad customer journey, getting on a public transport is, should be the right of everybody. Um, it's for the public, so why should it be a struggle for them to get on that? So that's something that I really try and push is that, you know, if there's any hiccup on that service that we've, we've affected, we've done not done something right. Um, and we need to make that so that person, as soon as they leave their house till they get to their doctor's appointment, there's no anxiety. The only anxiety should be other external things. Not worrying about where their bus is and getting on that bus and, you know, finding their way onwards from that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that whole in mindset and approach that you got there with that. I mean, you know, when you think about, you know, some of the journeys that your customers are going to be having or taking where they want to get to, right. The last thing they want to be, uh, panicking about is having some friction on that journey itself because their end destination, you know, that, that in itself might be something that they're concerned or uh, worried about, especially if they're going to the doctors. And so the, the last thing you want to do is be, is be uh, you know, on m. That journey, you know, having more frustration, pain, worry, you know, am I going to get there in time? So it's your job to make sure we take, you take care of all that stuff, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. 100. I mean it's. We did uh, we did a survey lately and uh, we've launched a new brand as well. So Travel South Yorkshire is, is leaving, it's on the way out. Um, and it's becoming South York People's Network. A bit like what they did obviously in Manchester with the B network. So that's something we're bringing in. And a lot of the feedback on the brand was not really bothered as long as my bus is on time. And that's. Yeah, that's the main thing Google want. They want to have a bus that comes on time, which hopefully within franchising is something we can, we can actually start to affect now and then they just want the right information and it's how you get that, uh, information over to them, you know, with that personalized thing. We obviously, like I said, we've got an app now where, you know, in, in the Future I'd love us to. You know, each person should have that own personalized feel on there. You know, I, I wake up and on my watch it tells me how long it's going to take me to get to work today. And that's when I wake up. So why can't we tell them how late their bus is going to be or tell them if their bus stops not running, it's not, you know, you can't serve it. But it's not just about telling them that, it's offering them that alternative. So your bus stops closed. However, if you just walk 100 yards from that road, the bus is still going to be there. You just need to set off two minutes earlier. So it's that proactiveness now. And, and that's something I'm, um, really wanting to do, is be a little bit more proactive with that while keeping that personal touch with the, the CX staff.

Speaker A: Great. Love that. So, so let's just have a look then. So when it comes to, you know, your background, uh, you know, what I'm hearing, Carl, is that, you know, you've worked in car workshops. You mentioned this company called the Mansfield Group. Um, when you joined the current company, uh, that you're with now, it was in a data role. You were the, I think you said something about the data officer, uh, right through to the position that you're in now. Right. And so, and so during, I mean, we've talked a little bit about the fact that, you know, conversations are crucially important. You mentioned about, you know, the importance of being proactive and doing everything you can to make sure that we, you know, we take on board feedback from customers and so what, what other experiences, you know, uh, shaped, have shaped your view of what great customer service should look, sound and feel like?

Speaker B: For me, the experiences that I've come across where you get that great customer service, there's no one blanket fits all. It is that what's, uh, right for that customer, it was what's right for that person at that time. And it's even down as simple as understanding what the member of the CX staff is being asked. So sometimes you might get a phone call or you'll get an email come in that we have to deal with. And it's kind of, it might be a big rant about something which, you know, people, you know, the, some people are very passionate about public transport and if something don't work, you know, you will get, you know, these, these large complaints. But it's understanding what, what are they Asking of us M. So let's, let's cut it. So getting that training to understand what is that customer actually complaining about and um, what, what are they telling us? Because there'll be lots of things out there that the, you know, they're listing all these different things and you know, for some stuff you kind of read it and go, oh my word. What, where do I, where's square one? It's really understanding that. So I think the understanding what the customer needs is vital and quickly, especially if it's on the phone and then shaping that experience for that customer. Um, everyone's experience is completely different. So that's why it's so, you know, good to understand, you know, what different Personas we have in South Yorkshire. You know, all the different customer journeys we have. Is it an 18 year old who's never been on, you know, public transport before, he's anxious about getting on the super tram. How do we, how do we affect that? How do we make that a positive experience for him? Because we want him to come back. All in all we want him to be back on that, that tram. So how are we going to make sure his anxiety next time is not going to be pad or then you've got somebody who's, you know, maybe just started to use a wheelchair. Something's happened, they've just started to use a wheelchair. But they were a big public transport user, they still want to use public transport but their journey is now going to be very different. So instead of, let's say they catch two buses to get to uh, a certain place now they still have to catch two buses, however, they have to change over at an interchange because of the accessibility purposes, because at certain things you can't get off the bus and get up the curb. So it might be that they have to go to a Brotherham interchange, Sheffield interchange. So it's all about us understanding the needs of the customer. Um, and hopefully we can get to a bit where when they're phoning up, we already know what customer is calling us. If we've, they've logged into our system, they've got our app, they can, you know, put in their uh, you know, accessibility needs, their age, how often they get public transport. We can have a system that recognizes that person when they ring up and it can say, you know, it's this is Joe from, you know, B or so and so is he usually does this journey on a, a Monday and when somebody answers that phone they could go up, morning Joe, um, where you heading today? You know, idea how you wanting to get there usually use Tram, but the tram might be awful, blah, blah, blah. So kind of making that personal experience, I think makes. It's not just about that customer experience anymore. It is that personal, personal touch. And it's using the AI and whatnot to, to enhance that and just empower our staff to do that rather than replace them with AI. Um, there's a space for it, but you know, it's more about, for me it's about enhancing our uh, RCX staff rather than taking their jobs away.

Speaker A: Okay, great. We will definitely have a look and delve deeper, um, into AI in a second. But it sounds like, you know, what you're saying is that what needs to. So you talked about, you know, if someone sends through maybe a lot of detail, maybe a lengthy complaint. It's important. One of the key things that needs to happen is people need to have that ability to be able to read between the lines. Right. And almost pinpoint. Right. What's the most important thing here that this customer wants us to help them with right here, right now. So that, that's, that's certainly going to help to shape the experience. Right. And then you talked about, you know, it's important that people are able to adapt their style to the various Personas. I think you said they got different Personas, um, that we have when it comes to the customers who use your services. And so how can we make sure that we adapt our communication style to the various, uh, Personas, uh, that um, uh, or the various customer types that are going to come into contact with us. And then it's about looking at, okay, let's make sure we absolutely address um, you know, the customer's needs, ah, and get those things sorted out. You know, what's the, what's the biggest issue that they need the most help with? Um, and you know, you talked about, you know, this whole piece around personalization is crucially important, uh, and how you can make sure that, um, you use some of the information that you've got, uh, to make the experience just feel a bit more personalized as opposed to, you know, just being a passenger. You, you know, you're a person, aren't you? I guess that's the approach that you want to take with it with your customers.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, 100%. I mean, you know, with the new brand, it's, you know, like I said, South Yorkshire people's network. So it's for the people. You know, you walk down the interchanges and it talks about, you know, Joe's journey, Sarah's Journey, so and so's journey. And it's, well, let's, let's make sure we're doing that. Everyone's journey is completely different and just because it's, you know, it's not really important to that person that, that journey for that specific person on that day, that's the, might be the most important journey they make that week. So we have to treat everything like that, um, and make sure they're all on that journey because obviously with franchising, like I said, it's. We do, we are a public entity. However, we will be running a bus network and we need bumps on seats. So if experiences aren't good, people will go away. Uh, they will go back to, you know, the car or they'll find other things. People are working from home a lot now. So if I struggle to get into the office three, four days a week because of public transport, you know what, I'm just gonna go in one day a week. I'll just get on that bus one day a week. This week, you know, our, our first time users, we want to make that uh, first journey they come to go, oh, actually that, that was really simple. That were really easy to get from A to B. And I never realized how simple it were because, you know, how people perceive public transport. I think north, like kind of the north of the country is kind of public transport's not for me. That's, that's not something I do. Um, whereas if you go to London, I mean you've got people that are on, you know, hundreds of thousands of pounds jumping on the bus, jump it on, you know, the underground. Why is it for them and it's not for people? In South Yorkshire, public transport is public transport. It should be for everybody. So how can we shape that to make it feel like it's for everybody rather than just for people that have no other choice but to use a bus? You know, they've got no car, they've got no other means of transport, so they have to use a bus. So whether their customer experience is good or not, they have to use that. Whereas how do we get the other people that are in cars? You know, we promote that modal, you know, that modal change to get from cars onto, you know, cycling, even cycling, you know, walking on, um, buses, on trains, on trams. So, yeah, that's a, you know, a big thing that, you know, we're thinking about really as well.

Speaker A: You know, when you think about it, it's um, it's, it's, it's a different perspective, isn't it? To have a, you know, when you think, when you, when you're looking, making comparisons to um, I mean I was in London on, on, on Friday last week and it's, it's, it's just the norm to, to jump on the tube. Uh, um. And you know, you're right. And it's a different sort of, uh, uh, they have maybe a, you know, why isn't that the case up north as well? So it just makes you think a little bit differently.

Speaker B: Yeah, it does, yeah. 100. It's whether it's a Yorkshire thing, I don't know. I think, I think it's more a northern thing and we don't know. Um, I'm all right. I think a lot of people here, if you aren't driving a car by the time you're 25, it seemed like you failed in doing something. You're seen as a failure. Why? People in London that have never learned to drive, very successful people that don't drive cars. Whereas up here, if you're 25 years old and you ain't got a car is seen as, seen as a bad thing and it shouldn't be. And that's something we need to change.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so, so when you think about that and when it comes to, you know, you talked a little bit about the importance of, you know, getting things right for our customers, you know, what do you think, you know, what do you think customers value most today when it comes to making that experience just feel easy for them?

Speaker B: I think it is just, it sounds really easy to say, but the ease of it like I, if I need to phone up, you know, Yorkshire Water, uh, and get a statement, Yang say yeah, uh, for five, ten minutes before I have to bring Yorkshire Water, uh, because I think God, this phone call is going to take ages. Then you phone up. They already know I am. We've already got your account up and what would you like? You can uh. I just have so and so statements. Yeah, there you go. We sent them to your email. Anything else today? No, no. And then I go. All the anxiety that 10 minutes for a two minute phone call when they dealt with everything so easily and that uh, is through that uh, you know, using the data, uh, using the information, the technology that they've got, but still having that personal touch and it's like I was talking to a robot, you know, it was a proper person. And I think making that journey so easy for people, I think they do appreciate that. And then when, when there is the CX touch points where you have to interact. You know if, if something does go wrong, I think that is where we have to have that personal touch a little bit. If somebody's usually talked to an organization or a company about something, I think it's something like 60, 70% of people who ring up an organization that expect human interaction immediately as soon as they ring them. That's still a really large percentage of people. When m. We're in the times that we're in so to say there's that many people that still want that human interaction. You know, the first instance they ring a company it says how much that personal touch does mean to people. So I think that the ease of the customer experience touch points but then that making uh, it feel a bit personal because like I said if, if they are ringing as somebody's usually gone wrong and you know another stat is, you know, every, every one person that phones you, 25 people leave without saying a thing. Oh yeah. When someone complains, it's not a bad thing, it's an opportunity. Um, and that's what we need to do. And how do we make them feel valued? How uh, do you make them feel like a person? It's like treat them like a person. Um, so making it feel easy and having that personal touch with people.

Speaker A: You mentioned at the start of the conversation, Kyle, you know, you look after the contact center. That's one of the um, part of the role you do. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And so, and so when you got, when people do make contact with you, you know, normally, you know there's going to be something that's gone not, not gone quite right. What are you doing to equip your people with the skills to be able to deal with those sort of situations? Because you just mentioned there, you know, every, every time someone does um, you know, complain, there's that there's potentially you know, 25 people who also have the same complaint but they're, they're choosing not to vocalize it. So, so when that one person does vocalize it, what are you doing with your people to make sure they absolutely have the right skills to be able to deal with those situations.

Speaker B: So that, so that's something that I've I've um, really tried to push into. I've come into here because like I said I'm, I'm massive about the, the team. Like so there's three separate functions to RCX team. There's the contact center, the interchanges and the, the travel information service information. Um, and it's felt very separate prior to this. Whereas I Want everybody to know each other's names, I want everybody to know each other's faces. And so what we've done is we've launched a, a monthly CX catch up. It's very simple. It's an hour on a Friday, last Friday of the month. Could be on teams, could be in person and it's an hour where we'll you know, relax, do a quiz, celebrate uh, one person who. So what we do is we get people to nominate um can a CX champion. Every month the previous month's winner is on the panel to do it and then one of the uh, one of the leadership team for uh customer experience. So they're the paddle, one of the, the leaders and then the previous month's winner and then within these, these catch ups after we've done the award I kind of take that as my opportunity to you know, how can I shape this into something they'll think about. So these stats I've just kind of spoke to you about, they're off the top of my head because I did a quiz with them um, a week and a half ago uh and kind of said you know, took these stats that kind of would I lie to you? Kind of game show and you know which one of these is a lie and the amount of people that are shopped at certain stacks. It's like yeah this is, this is what you're doing. So the, the one, the one out of 25, one that really stuck home with a lot of people and kind of so it's educating them around how customers behave and then it's also that other aspect so we're talking the person, so make sure that person understands that but they're making sure when they're in that context and setting, making sure they've got the right support, the right technology. So we've just launched a new CRM system in the past two months which is going to get upscale with AI and whatnot in the. Then you know by hopefully the end of, the end of this year. Um, so make sure they've got the support, whether that's from the contact center manager, their team leaders and understanding what is, you know, what is asked of them. So whether that's you know, uh, our manager listening into some conversation, our team leaders listening in to say how could we have dealt with that a little bit different? Um and it's just that constant upskilling I guess is you know, but we've got quite a small team so they have to be very multi skilled so they might be working on the phones one, one morning, then they might be dealing with you know, letters that have come in. Um, and then on another day they might be processing passes that come in as this. That's another function of our uh, contact center is you know, make sure disability passes are getting sent out and processed correctly. So make sure they've got that rounded, you know, that rounded skill set for everything that we need. But making sure that when they are doing anything is make sure customer is at the forefront of their mind. So hopefully we're a bit more technology and stuff and giving that, you know, bit better camaraderie within the entire CX function and offering my support as well where I can uh, and any X, you know, experience I have had. And I think that's, that's one of the things that I always see our uh, our uh, CX staffers, you know, our uh, little you know, living walking billboards for the organization. If you're walking through an interchange and somebody's got, you know, a face like a smack bum, let's say, you'll think that don't really want to interact with them. Even though I've got an issue, somebody's a good mood, smiling chat in a way. Yeah, we'll deal with that. Uh, you know, a bit more approachable. And it's the same on the phones. You know, we've got one person who comes to my mind right now. So we don't, our system doesn't recognize what person's ringing them up right now. Whereas I was in the contact center the other day, sat in there, uh, phone rang, she's answered the phone in the contact center and she knew the person's name and that's from recognizing the phone number. And that's ah, what customer experience should still be about is you ring up and you go, so answered it, hi Gavin. And they were like, yep, I was, how's your husband? How's your wife? I think the personal ranging, her husband had been in hospital. So the person in the contact center, I asked someone so well, uh, has he come out of hospital yet? And that's before she's even got to ask him for what she wants. So she might have only monitor, you know, call about, you know, where's my bus going to be or whatever. But now she's had that nice bit of customer experience. She feels value, she feels like a person. And I think it's singing them successes and celebrating people that do that. Uh, because then everybody else then goes wow, that's fantastic. That's what you know, we want to aspire to. And I think celebrating them successes and people doing them fantastic jobs is, is a huge thing and I think it's something that's not done very often. People never really sing about the success and it's making sure it sticks that. So like I said, we've put in this CX CX award program now and we've had two winners over the past two months. And it's kind of, I've said, you know, this, this isn't it. Uh, if this doesn't work after 90 days or so we come together, we refresh it because it's great me saying this is what I think it should be. But if it doesn't work for you guys, then it doesn't work. It has to work for you. So yeah, I think just within the context and to make sure they've got that support, make sure they're feeling valued, um, and make sure they know the impact customer experience has on getting bums on seats and creating opportunities for people to stay with the organization in certain ways.

Speaker A: You know, when listening to what you've just shared there then Kyle, it sounds like, you know, the monthly CX catch ups, you know, having a great impact when it comes to um, getting the internal teams to collaborate, even better. You're making sure that they all know each other and you're doing your little, you know, your quick fire quizzes. And I remember when I first worked for a previous company we were talking about complaints. When I first used the stat that you're using now, I used to say out, uh, of every, every 17 customers who have reason to complain, uh, only one will. Now it sounds like from the updated stats what you're saying is for every 25 customers who reason to complain, only one will. So it's even, it's even more crucial that we, we, you know, we get this right because it's going to be affecting even more people. Uh, and if we don't get it sorted out then they're potentially going to, you know, going to leave as well. And the story that you've, you know, you shared there, I mean that's just, you know, brilliant, isn't it? You know, you got someone who can recognize a customer's phone number, um, and then be able to connect and pick up their name and remember some personal details about that customer that is important to them. That makes, that just makes the, the experience just totally personalized and you know, just imagine what that customer is going to feel like. I mean that. And you're right, that's the sort of stuff that needs to be celebrated. That's, you know, I mean, if, if that, if that person did that and a. Their team leader or team manager, uh, didn't pick up on that, then there's a good chance that they might not do it again. But if they did that. Oh yeah, then it's, it's our job as leaders, isn't it, to make sure that we say, hey, oh, I love that. That is brilliant what you've done there. That, that is going to set us apart. Uh, and that is gonna, that's gonna make this whole journey that we're creating. We're talking about customer journey. But, you know, ultimately it's. It's ironic that, you know, your, your customers are on journeys, aren't they? Right? But that's what's going to make it really, really good.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, 100%. And that's, that's one of the reasons why we have, we have started this is, you know, it took us three months to get it in place because I didn't want to just throw it in there. I, uh, want it to stick because, you know, it might be that I'm not in this role for, you know, forever. Um, but it'd be nice for. If somebody else comes in. This is, you know, this is in there. This is our culture. This is what we do. We celebrate our teams. And as leaders, I think within organizations, it's. We're always kind of looking up, we're trying to manage up sometimes. So what does my boss think of me? What do I need to do for him today? And that, uh, you kind of get to that level and it does seem to go that way. Especially obviously with a mayoral combined authority. It's very, it's very hard for us to not sometimes, you know, look at the mayor and think, you know, what. What does he require of us? This, this yo right now and stuff. So sometimes we can forget about, uh, our ah, staff and no, it's just as important to them, uh, to make sure their voice has been, you know, heard. You know, we're going through franchising right now and you know, customer experience is a work stream in that. So we've kind of pushed for our interchange people and our, uh, contact center staff to be in these workshops because they are on the ground and they know the journeys, uh, they know the questions that get regularly asked. They know the issue that they regularly have. And we have to make sure their, their voice is valued. So even with that CX award, what we've said is, you know, every, every Quarter, the three winners of the CX Award could have. They'll have a catcher with myself, the contact center manager in exchange manager and service Information manager. So it's us four, you three, let's chew the fat for an hour. Since you've won this award, obviously CX is, you know, within you. We want to hear what you think. So every quarter we'll have that catch up and we'll do that throughout the year with, you know, the three winners every quarter. Um, just to make sure, you know that that award is valued in a way that your voice, which is getting listened to anyway, will be a bit more punchy because you are going to get an hour with me, the contact center manager, the exchange manager, to just go. I think this should happen. And if, if not, if it doesn't happen, then at least we can explain why. Or uh, maybe the strategic direction of the organization isn't quite that way. But we appreciate what you're saying and it might be something we can embed, but maybe 12 months down the line, it might be something we could embed, you know, in two minutes. But like, yeah, let's do that. Uh, but we have to give value to our, our uh, staff, uh, and make sure their voices be. Listen, it's no point, you know, uh, our CEO, me, people deciding this is what our customers want. The people that are interacting with them know. So let's use them. Let's make sure their voice has been listened to.

Speaker A: Yeah, I saw, you know, yeah, I saw. As you were talking there, Kyle, it made me think of um, uh, a recent post that I saw on LinkedIn. It was talking about the iceberg of ignorance. And ultimately what it was saying is that, you know, the, the top tier of an organization, let's say the, you know, the um, the board that they're only aware of, of 4% of the issues in the organization. Right. And then when you, the bottom of the iceberg, which underneath the surface, uh, the foundation of it, this is where our frontline staff are and they're aware of 96% of the issues that that organization is being faced with. So it's important that we make sure their voices do get heard. And that information does uh, you know, get channeled through, whether it's through the chain of command or uh, just whatever that might be so that it gets to the top. So we say, hey, you know what? Right? This, this stuff needs to be looked at. And it sounds like, you know, the approach that you're taking there with the, with the CX Award program, you're using that, um, you know, as a platform, uh, to be able to, uh, to do that so that the information does get channeled through.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. 100. Because that's, that's one of the ways I wanted to make it stick is give it value. If you win this award, what, what you're going to get. Just a lanyard. We've created a lanyard and it kind of says champion on it, but is. I don't, I didn't just want that. So that's why we know. I was speaking to our, uh, contact center staff, our interchange managers. We had a working group and said, how do we give it value to you guys? Then it's like, yeah, we, we want some time to talk to you people to, you know, they talk about our ideas or, you know, so we've done that. You know, we've put them on the panel. Because as far as I'm concerned, if you've won it, you know, you can decide who wins it next month. M. Because you've shown you've got the values, you've got the models that, you know, we want in this organization. And I think that makes it stick a bit better because I've seen, you know, programs like this, you know, come and go. You know, they come and go like the window, like these kind of recognition programs. Um, so it's important not just to implement it, but actually make it stick and try and change the culture for something that. Yeah, you know, like I said, the team where the camaraderie, like I said, my background. Sport. Background.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So let's value everybody and make this

Speaker A: is it, you know, make sure that, um, you know, everyone does feel as though, um, they're part of that team and, and you be encouraged that. That culture where people recognize that we are stronger together, you know, so it's important that, you know, voices. Voices do get heard. So. So listen, we mentioned, we talked a little bit about AI and I'm just keen to delve a little bit deeper into this then. So, um, you know how when you think about your organization. Okay. Um, I know you mentioned that there's a bit of a rebrand at the moment. You're moving towards South Yorkshire people's network. Right. Um, how is AI changing the customer experience for your customers then, Kyle?

Speaker B: So it's, it's something that's on the horizon for us, I would say. Um, so within the contact center, it's something with our new CRM system that we brought in. The. One of the phases of that is, you know, the contact center as a service. Uh, and then using that, getting a chat bot in there and, you know, making sure that phone number, um, recognition and people recognition is in there before that that call touches somebody's ear and then linking that through to, you know, our app and things like that, just to give it that personal feel. But I'm big believer in with AI it's. You can kind of go, wow, that's. You can. You can see one and go, that's great. Um, I don't know if you've watched Clarkson's Farm at all.

Speaker A: Yes, we've, we've, we've definitely watched that a couple of times with, with, with the kids. They. My son certainly loves it and my wife does as well. So which part are you thinking about?

Speaker B: So the, the latest episode, I watched it, gone to. It gone to a show and kind of gone. Wow, that, that piece of kit's fantastic. And bought it. He took it back and they've gone, we don't grow onions. Why have you bought something m. That grows onions? He's like, because it was cool. And I think that's very much what can happen with AI you can get focused on the tool and you don't understand what the need is in the organization. Um, so I think we're going to try and go, right, what does each team need? How can AI Help us? So within, let's say, service information, there's a lot of proof checking and that's done by people looking at one piece of paper and another, well, not a piece of paper, but the screens now. And just doing that. And that's very time consuming. So there must be a piece of kit for that. And then that makes the efficiencies and makes you. Gives them more time to think about the customer or more time to work on designs and output. Like I said, within the contact center, we're looking at, uh, you know, chat bots and things and making sure it can sense maybe the tone of voice that the person is talking in. So it can kind of warn that customer, you know, or warn that the, the agent saying, you know, yeah, it sounds a bit style maybe.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, so it'll be as well, including a knowledge base in there, something we've never had. So something we've really pushed is having that knowledge base kind of put a question into a knowledge base, bang, that answers there. Um, getting that right first time, you know, phone call, rather than going, well, what, what we can do is can you. We'll. We'll call you back in, you know, within the next day. Uh, and give you an answer for that. And I'm, I'm a massive, right. Firsttime person. Uh, and I think that's where we need to be brave, you know, within the organization and say, look, yes, we know our SLA for phone calls is, you know, X amount of seconds. However, if somebody's worried about that, uh, and they're going to try and get them off at phone and then just going to phone them back, you know, within an hour to answer their question, let's be brave and just keep them m on the phone a bit longer. Let's not worry about that sla because the right first time actually makes a difference to customers. And probably if you had them two calls together, you've probably been on phone less time anyway. So I think in terms of AI is helping do things like that, uh, make sure it's right first time, making sure we're giving that personalized experience and it's just enhancing and empowering our staff rather than, like I said earlier, is doing things that, you know, we can be doing. AI is fantastic, but, uh, it's not in a place where I'm, I'm happy to just kind of run a cold contact center out of an AI system. I don't think we're quite there yet, but it, I just want to use it to empower our people. Um, and I think that's what all CX people should be doing. Um, making your organizations more efficient and using it to make everybody feel like they could do an even better job than what they're doing.

Speaker A: You know, I think about the, you know, it's a great story that you shared there with the Clarksons Farm scenario and situation. I think there's many organizations that are taking that sort of approach when it comes to AI and they're spending lots of money on things and thinking, okay, what's the difference this is making? Is it, is it having a, uh, positive impact on the customer experience? And so, you know, the approach that you share, you're sharing there about, okay, you know, what's the need? Right? How can we empower, empower our staff? How can we enhance the experience for our staff, which will ultimately enhance the experience for the customer? Okay, what's the AI that can help us with that? That's, that's the approach that we should be taking. And um, you know, you know, sometimes, even as, even as a family, sometimes you see deals, don't you think? Right, okay, that's a great deal. But it's like we don't even need it though, right? So, so why are we getting it? And, and I think we, we need to make sure that there's a real need for the AI before we look to, to, to make that purchase because there can be a lot of money that gets wasted. Okay, so listen, I'm gonna um, we're gonna move on towards the, the end here. We've had a great conversation. Carl. I want to just do a bit of, you know, talking of quizzes, you know you said that you, you do your, your monthly um, CX catch up and you do a bit of a quiz with the uh, with the guys and the girls and whatnot. So, so this is not necessarily a quiz but I'm just going to give you a couple of online is and I want you to give me, you know, the first thing that comes into your head. So it's a bit, bit of a uh, bit of fun with the, with some, with some quick fire responses. I mean I know we talked at the start of the session about the fact that you went to university and um, it was only for a short period of time. Three weeks. Right? Yeah. And if you think about this game, it's a little bit like this. It's, you know, when I was at university I used to play something called Drink while you think. Right. And so the more, the more you were thinking, the more you had to drink. So it was never good to be thinking for a long period of time. Okay. So, so what I want is that when I give you the one liner, uh, you give me, you give me the response. Yeah. All right.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: So here we go, let's see how this one plays out. So give me one word that defines great customer.

Speaker B: Personal.

Speaker A: Love it. Biggest CX buzzword that needs to be retired. Which one needs to be retired? Do we think? Kyle Quick. Too quick. Best brand for customer experience right now. Amazon AI Opportunity or threat Opportunity. Phone call, Live chat or face to face?

Speaker B: Face to face.

Speaker A: One leadership habit. You swear by empowering most underrated customer service skill.

Speaker B: Oh, telephony Bit on the phone.

Speaker A: One thing businesses should stop doing immediately.

Speaker B: Worrying about money over customers. But that's a lot. That's not one word.

Speaker A: It's definitely one thing though, right? One M thing is, you know, he's panicking too much about how much it cost versus what's the impact on the customer experience. Okay. If it's gonna.

Speaker B: Your profits will look after themselves.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And that in itself is a bit of gold dust. Okay. So um, yeah, anything, you know, listen you, it's been a great conversation. Uh, Kyle So thank you for making the time for the podcast. Um, you know, what's, what would you say is your biggest piece of gold dust? I mean, I talk a lot about gold dust. Okay, and you talked a lot, you know, goldust today, you know, looking out for those, those, those bit. Bits of personal details that you can use to enhance the customer experience. That's the gold dust. And what, but what's your biggest piece of gold dust for organizations wanting to improve customer experience?

Speaker B: I think it's trusting. Trusting and empowering your CX staff, you know, letting them make that decision. Um, because, uh, they're on the ground, they can make that choice. You know, I've heard a example before where somebody's made a complaint in a, a shop and to actually get a refund or something like that, they've had to tell their boss, who's had to tell their boss to tell their boss. And by the time it's gone up there, it's took two weeks. And the issue is so far, you know, away from when the issue started, it doesn't feel like a big deal. But the cost to the agent that actually dealt with them in the first place, it is. And I think, you know, trust that CX member to go, yep, here's a refund. You know, give them that delegated authority to make the, the call. So empower that staff. Believe in your staff, listen to your staff. Um, as much as I want to sit in my office and you know, get around to the interchanges, get into the contact center, there's other things I need to deal with. So I have to go. I trust you. You know, deal with them customers, deal with them, people, but do it thinking, you know, everyone's an opportunity. You know, we're trying to get people from A to B as easy as possible. It should be as easy as breathing for people. And like I said, any, any complaints are an opportunity. So I think trust, trusting that stuff and just making sure there's that, there's that one golden thread that all your CX stuff are, you know, thinking about, and that is opportunities, customers, you know, making everything easy for them. And like I said, you look after them. Everything else will come. The money, the bums on seats, you know, that's, that's what we want. And CX is undervalued within organizations, uh, for the difference it makes to, to people. And uh, I think certain things can be, you know, look made to look, you know, really, you know, prioritized by an organization. Apple tv, if you've got Apple TV in The last six months they changed their logo. No one knows how much did that cost them. But you know what Apple's brand is about, you already know what their brand's about, you know what their customer service might be about. Um, so worry about that. Um, yeah. And everything else will look after itself.

Speaker A: You know, I think, you know, in terms of, um, you know, what you've shared today, you know, the approach that you're taking, um, some of the, uh, initiatives that you've been implementing, the stuff that you've been doing, the, the conversations that we've had, the stories that you've shared, um, all of that together is definitely going to make sure that the work that you do is going to continue to move in the right direction. And like you said at the very beginning, you know what, you don't need to have a degree. Right. To be able to do all of that. And your confirmation that, um, by consistently getting some of the basics right, making the experience feel easy, empowering your people and making sure you enhance the experience for them, that in itself is going to result in, um, a consistently great experience for your customers. And I'm sure that's the case for the people on the buses, on the trams and using any other, uh, transport in your neck of the woods. So is there any, any, anything that we've not discussed today that you wanted to finish off with a, with a, with a quick one liner?

Speaker B: No. Get on the buses, get on the trams, people.

Speaker A: Get on the buses.

Speaker B: Trust. Yeah, Public transport's for everybody. It's not just for, uh, not just for people in London, it's for everyone. Get on it, use it. If there's an issue, complain, make it better. You know, while we've got great CX staff, we need people to get on the buses, meet people together, trams. And that's not just in South Yorkshire, that's everywhere. So get on a museum. Better for environment. You know, you're not stuck in traffic, the bus is stuck in traffic. You can work, you can read, you can chill out. Um, so public transports for everybody, it's not just, it's not just for certain people. So everybody get a try.

Speaker A: Love that. We will make sure that we put the contact details for Kyle into the show notes. I'm, um, sure be able to share his LinkedIn contact details as well, folks. So if you want to get in touch with Kyle, you'll be able to check the notes of the podcast and I'm sure he'll be happy to have a conversation with you. So, Kyle Wright, it's been great to have you on, uh, the Customer Service Gold Dust Podcast. Until next time, uh folks. For the rest of you, do stay memorable and bye for now. Thank you for listening to the Customer Service Goldust podcast. I'm sure that there are plenty of ideas you can take away and apply to your business today. So three things to do now subscribe to the podcast so you can benefit from every episode. I'd also love to see a little review from you as well. This helps to spread the word and the Goldust. Of course, head over to Amazon to get a copy of my latest book, Finding Goldust how to Create Exceptional Customer Experiences. The book is endorsed by a former Executive Vice President of Walt Disney Resorts. Thirdly, Visit my website, www.gavinscot me and sign up for the free 21 days to create Exceptional Customer Experiences. Until the next time, stay memorable.