The New Rules of CPG Packaging

Scott Fuselier (00:19.332) Good morning, Justin. Doing well. How are you?

Justin Girouard (00:21.368) Good, good, good. Sorry for the delay. You you walk in the office and everybody needs you.

So, like, I gotta go. Scott Fuselier (00:23.63) BLEH Scott Fuselier (00:31.32) Well, it's only 9-0-1 Central, so we're good.

So no worries. Justin Girouard (00:34.382) Uhhh Scott Fuselier (00:42.414) Morning, Mark.

Dr. Mark Young (00:43.562) Good morning. Okay, so we have two people here.

Scott Fuselier (00:51.682) Yeah, we originally had myself, I'm Scott Fusilet and then Matt Jones has also stepped in via sidekick with me this morning. Justin Girouard (01:22.734) disturbances.

Okay. Cool. Dr. Mark Young (01:33.

68) I literally just ran from a meeting with Kroger to here where we were talking about having new packaging made. So do you guys do like power wings and displays and stuff also? Scott Fuselier (01:48.364) Yes, sir.

That's really what our strength is, Mark, is retail corrugated quarter pallets, half pallets, fulfillment of the customer product, power wings, the whole gambit, retail packaging, e-commerce, two-sided print. That's our strength. Dr. Mark Young (02:08.

404) So besides for Jekyll and Hyde, we also own a company called PharmaVision. And PharmaVision, we own all the three-sided kiosks with televisions that reside in all the Kroger stores. Scott Fuselier (02:23.989) Okay.

Dr. Mark Young (02:24.256) So Ollipop wants to do a deal to be on my displays. Scott Fuselier (02:30.

989) Great. Dr. Mark Young (02:31.7) But my shelves, my shelves aren't big enough to hold enough ollie pop because of the turn rate.

So we're going back to Alipop today and suggesting that they build a cardboard power shipper the size of the top of our unit. Scott Fuselier (02:52.419) Well, Mark, we're very strong in the drink space, specifically energy. Dr.

Mark Young (03:01.47) Have you done anything with Hollypop yet? Scott Fuselier (03:04.161) not yet.

We haven't done anything with all the coffee yet. I think we've probably called on them. We have one individual who focuses on the energy space drink. We're very strong in that area.

We talked with them last year in October at the National Associated Convenience Store Expo in Chicago. So we had some discussion. Dr. Mark Young (03:06.

356) Alright, well maybe here's a chance to do something with Alipop. Dr. Mark Young (03:21.428) Okay.

Dr. Mark Young (03:28.318) Yeah, so I could probably pitch this over to you because they're needing to comply with us. Cause this is as, as pharma vision, we carry Kroger's big stick.

Scott Fuselier (03:33.794) Great. Dr. Mark Young (03:42.

622) Because we're Kroger's in-store media company. Scott Fuselier (03:45.581) Mm-hmm. Dr.

Mark Young (03:47.738) So this is us giving them the opportunity to put more product on the Kroger floor. So it's not likely they want to say no to us. Nobody usually says no when you're offering them floor space.

Scott Fuselier (03:59.246) Great. That's right. Dr.

Mark Young (04:05.278) So puts us in an interesting position. Also, while I've got you guys here, let's connect them with. with Michelle Lone, Justin, and let's talk to them about the power wing display making up a freestanding power wing for Bikozi for the Christmas in and out.

So we have a TV product we have on TV right now called Be Cozy, the world's most comfortable travel pillow. And we have it on TV and it's doing very well on TV and now we're pitching it for retail. Kroger just decided to bring it into 500 stores. We're pitching Meyer, Walmart.

So we're probably going to need like an in and out, like a power wing with an in and out that they can just throw on the floor for Christmas. Scott Fuselier (05:00.557) Great. Dr.

Mark Young (05:04.377) All right. Justin Girouard (05:08.354) Ha ha ha ha!

Dr. Mark Young (05:09.435) I know, imagine after you get on the air. Scott Fuselier (05:12.

483) Can we do next week's podcast too? Can we schedule that? Dr. Mark Young (05:14.

943) You Dr. Mark Young (05:18.941) So I don't know if you, I'm going to take a minute to tell you guys who we are in case you don't know. So, I mean, you know who the CPG insiders is, but the podcast is really produced by Jekyll Hyde Labs and Jekyll Hyde Labs is our ad agency.

We've done about 200 plus brands in the past 31 years now. And what we do is challenge your brand CPG. So not, not P and G, not bare aspirin, but smart mouth mouthwash and rectiCare, know, number two hemorrhoidal product. And so we take a lot of these challengers on and build them up.

And then we also own PharmaVision, which is the company that we own that controls all the TV sets and all the kiosks inside all the Kroger stores. We also just took over and Justin, you don't even know this yet, or you may know, we also took over all the frontline displays for Kroger. Justin Girouard (06:17.142) I heard that was happening, but I didn't know that it would.

Dr. Mark Young (06:18.578) So Kroger has a four-sided kiosk that sits right in front of the pharmacy. It was owned by Acosta.

So that's now moved to us. It's no longer called Frontline. Now it's called Power Tower. It's the same stupid fixture, but they renamed it the Power Tower.

So we have a four-sided unit for putting new products in the Kroger pharmacy, plus a three-sided end cap with Scott Fuselier (06:33.699) Okay. Dr. Mark Young (06:47.

953) a television set and then that television set sits on a display that has a big top on it. So that entire top can be merchandising space. So that's where we're going to try to put Ollipop. And it is right at eye level.

Scott Fuselier (07:02.103) Fantastic. Great. Dr.

Mark Young (07:06.985) So we're very entrenched in the world of CPG. And it's all we do, by the way. That's what we do.

Scott Fuselier (07:17.495) Great. Well, I think we're gonna have a good conversation this morning about what we do and how we help brands come to life and helping them, you know, retail their product. Dr.

Mark Young (07:30.441) Now, do you guys also do packaging for products, or is it more the display corrugated stuff? Scott Fuselier (07:38.008) both.

We absolutely no we do all corrugated of course but we do you know look everything we do and I'll talk more about court you know BCI once we get on the the podcast but everything from a simple brown box to a Dr. Mark Young (07:38.525) So you can actually do the packaging too. Scott Fuselier (08:00.

875) floor display, that we do the fulfillment with all the graphics. So we work with the agencies, marketing agencies, or we work internally with our design team here and coming up with different solutions for the customer's product and trying to figure out a way to right size the package and reduce costs. Dr. Mark Young (08:26.

046) Are you guys comfortable talking about the EPR, the states with the extended packaging requirements? Okay, great. All right, we good, Justin? I'm ready when you are, buddy.

Scott Fuselier (08:33.58) We are. Justin Girouard (08:37.676) We are good.

Let's go. Dr. Mark Young (08:42.429) Welcome everybody to another edition of CPG Insiders.

I'm your host, Mark Young, with my co-host, Sidekick. What other term? Vice President. Justin Girouard (08:54.

676) Okay, okay, here he goes. No, that's that's that so far. There's one truth Dr. Mark Young (08:56.

157) I know you are vice president, I mean come on. That's better than Robin. Come on. Justin Girouard (09:02.

894) Hey, I thought you were going back to the tights. Dr. Mark Young (09:06.811) I did not go back to the tights.

did not get into the Robin to my Batman, but it is true. You've never seen Batman and I in the same room together. That is an absolute fact. just, just, just contemplate that for a while.

Justin Girouard (09:15.286) That is true. So we don't know. Dr.

Mark Young (09:24.999) So folks, we're going to have a conversation today about packaging. we have with us, have Scott Fusole. Did I get that right?

Okay. And Matt Jones. Scott Fuselier (09:36.739) Very nice, Mark.

Thank you. That one's a lot easier, right? Mark. Justin Girouard (09:41.

444) You Dr. Mark Young (09:41.785) Jones is like my name. Yes, that's an easy one.

Justin Gerard is tricky though, if you look at the spelling. And they are with a company called Buckeye I Corrugated, or I think oftentimes known as BCI. And what we're going to talk about today, we're going to talk about all things packaging, but not only packaging, but we're going to talk about corrugated and talk about some of the opportunities. So when we think of, you know, POP displays and power wings and all of these things that You as a consumer brand, you as a CPG brand can start to leverage and make available to your retailers.

So as an example, just when we were off air, we were talking about a client of ours who is going to be doing what we call an in and out for Christmas, which means they're going to do a big shipment for Christmas. They have an item that's very Christmas gift. So instead of the retailer having to find shelf space for Christmas, We'll create a temporary power wing. And how is that done?

And how is all this stuff managed? So Scott, Matt, welcome to CPG Insiders. Why don't you tell people a little bit about yourselves and about BCI. Scott Fuselier (10:56.

895) Hello guys, thanks for having us on. I'm Scott Fusilet. I'm the Vice President of Enterprise Sales for BCI. We are a, Matt Jones, I'm the sales manager for Houston plant.

BCI is almost a 70 year old company founded in 1958 out of Worcester, Ohio. And the growth of the company has been through acquisitions over the last, 70 years and as of six months ago, we had 11 manufacturing plants, majority up in the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, and we had a number of clients asking us to get out West. And so we have our first greenfield operation that is effectively January one of this year, manufacturing in Reno, Nevada. which is a very exciting time for us because we did have clients, as I said, and it gets us into California.

Also gets us in, you know, to Nevada, great market up there in Reno. Buckeye goes to market. You know, the way our philosophy is, you know, it's not a box container or a package. We think of it as an introduction to your brand.

So we help our clients retail their product in the retail space. And we try to work with them to figure out the best solution, be it a simple power wing or a quarter pallet, half pallet, and we can talk more about that as we go on. Dr. Mark Young (12:32.

05) Right. When we think of those palletized displays, folks think about, you know, is your product right for Costco? And cause that's a great place. You guys probably do a ton of Costco stuff.

I'm going to assume and Sam's club. Scott Fuselier (12:43.863) We do. do.

Yes, I mean the club sports. We are we are we've had some some really good growth over the last really last 510 years have been significant growth and we're continuing to grow. We're a privately held company. Actually, we're an employee owned company and upwards of probably 900 employees now throughout the 12 divisions.

Yeah, and each each division has its own. Dr. Mark Young (12:47.827) So you guys are a big operation.

Dr. Mark Young (13:11.145) Wow. Scott Fuselier (13:15.

799) designer, design studio, graphics, pre-press, everybody works independently, if you will, but at the same time, we work together as an enterprise. you know, we look at it from East Coast to West Coast on how we can service the customer. mean, part of our reason of going out West, it gave us an opportunity to, you know, it's closer proximity, faster delivery to West Coast customers. We lower the freight costs, reducing damage.

from long haul shipping. as we know, West Coast is a tremendous market. So it really has opened up some new doors for us. Dr.

Mark Young (13:54.431) Now, let me ask you guys a question. Let's say that I want to do a PDQ display or a power wing or something. You guys can make that unit.

Do you also pick and pack and fulfill that unit and package it so it's store ready? Scott Fuselier (14:12.899) We do, we do. There's a number of different ways.

We obviously can just ship the unit KDF to our customer, knock down flat, where we would provide assembling instructions either through a video, a QR code that you could scan, allow the customer to assemble that. We also have embedded in a handful of our facilities fulfillment operations. For example, here in Houston, we have 75,000, 100,000 square feet strictly dedicated for fulfillment. So we do get customer product brought into our facility will everything from ideation to manufacturing to fulfillment.

We can handle the whole gamut for you. So customer sends in product, we'll manage it. If it's a high value, we lock it. We have a lock and storage key under lock and then ship to the retailer.

So all of our designers are well versed in retailer specs from big box club stores, grocery. sea stores and we manage the distro list from there and can ship. Right now we're doing a big program for a energy drink. I think there's what Matt 400 ship to locations on that distro list that we handle everything for them.

So they send that to us and we manage it from there. Dr. Mark Young (15:30.687) So off here, we were talking about a client we have that's going to do a Christmas in and out and probably Walmart and Sam's Club, maybe BJ's.

So to follow with this, they would ship pallets of the product right to you. You guys would print, assemble, build the pallet, the palletized display, load the palletized display, and you guys would ship it to all the locations. Scott Fuselier (16:02.435) That's right.

That's right. Dr. Mark Young (16:04.647) And this makes sense, Justin.

And this is what, this is part of what we talk about on this show all the time, is who not how. Justin Girouard (16:14.862) Hmm. Dr.

Mark Young (16:16.036) And it's not knowing how to do everything, it's knowing who can do everything. And this is the reason these guys are on the show today because these guys are powerful who for your brand. These guys are a great who for your brand.

And it makes more sense. And I want people to listen to me. I know it is tempting to say, let's get these things shipped to us, knocked down, and we'll have all of our own people assemble this stuff and put it down. And we're going to save a few dollars on each pallet by building it ourselves.

No, you're not. Justin Girouard (16:27.808) Mm-hmm, absolutely. Dr.

Mark Young (16:53.053) You're not going to save any money trying to do this yourself. Justin Girouard (16:53.409) Not even a little bit.

you're gonna cost yourself a whole lot more money in mistakes. Dr. Mark Young (17:01.053) And you can't do it as fast and you can't do it as efficient.

And it makes no sense to try to gear up to do a Christmas in and out. It makes all the sense in the world to put this all out. So walk us through the process. So let's use this client as an example.

This client's looking at a Christmas in and out at big box store. Walk us through the timeline. When do they need to be making what and making what decisions in order to be ready? for that Christmas in and out.

Scott Fuselier (17:34.061) Well, we start with an idea, right? They have a, we need to learn where the end user is. I think in this situation, Mark, we're talking about Kroger, possibly, right?

Dr. Mark Young (17:43.199) Kroger, Costco, Sam's. Scott Fuselier (17:46.

084) And we need to know the environment where this, the retail where this display is going to be retail, which then allows us to understand the dynamic of the rules and regulations because each store has different requirements and what can and cannot go into the store. And we have to understand that. We educate our clients on that who may or may not know. So we tell them, hey, we can do a quarter palette, but it has to be within these parameters to fit within that store shelf.

Dr. Mark Young (18:22.271) Mm-hmm. Scott Fuselier (18:23.

617) The idea can either come from an agency. They may have some different ideas. Sometimes you get an agency that comes up with some elaborate ideas that quite aren't manufacturing ready, if you will. we.

Dr. Mark Young (18:36.295) We're not one of those groups, guys, by the way. Justin Girouard (18:38.

434) You don't have to worry about it. We know the difference between an architect and the contractor, right? Like, yeah, no, that's a really great house, but it's going to blow over tomorrow, and that room doesn't exist, and yeah, we get it. Scott Fuselier (18:42.

605) you Scott Fuselier (18:50.507) So we manage, we're managing from ideation. So that can be from an agency or it comes from the client saying I have, want to retail this, this energy drink needs to get into this, this, this retail environment. And I want to display 10 cases on a, on a, on a unit or five cases.

We help them come up with the different design. We make sure that it's structurally sound. So we start with a. just a simple white sample or a rendering.

A lot of times what we'll do is we'll come up with sketches. We have artists in house here at all of our divisions and they'll come up with just a rendering of sorts. Sometimes it's just a pencil sketch and we come up with a number of different ideas that we present to them and say, know, and sometimes you take A and the B version and you combine it. So then we come up with, after we land on that, we come up with a corrugated sample.

a white sample. Either take some pictures, send it directly to the client, have them approve it. Yes, this is what I want. We need to add some more.

We want to do something else, whatever the case may be. From there, either they have their agency that comes up or their internal marketing team that would place the artwork onto the each corrugated panel. And we then at that point, Dr. Mark Young (20:15.

135) Mm-hmm. Scott Fuselier (20:19.519) either make some changes internally through pre-press that, we need to make some modifications to the artwork. Usually that's not the case, but sometimes when we're direct print, we have an eight color, a seven color press plus a UV down here in our Houston division.

So sometimes there's some limitations that require us to do some trappings that you wouldn't necessarily have to do with an offset printing, but it does do litho quality work. We go back and forth with the proofing stage, if you will, and then we go to execution. And that is ordering cutting dies for the tooling to create the design of the display. We order print plates, we order litho, depending on how the artwork is built.

Dr. Mark Young (21:16.764) Now is, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, finish up.

Scott Fuselier (21:17.111) this go ahead sorry no I was just gonna say so we then get all that product in we we manufacture if it's a thousand five hundred ten thousand whatever the quantity is that's required we manufacture here you know use this this this facility we're in today which is Houston almost a three hundred thousand square foot facility we do all the manufacturing internally we then Sometimes we'll then ship that product, as I mentioned earlier, directly to the customer, knock down flat, they assemble, or then we take it from there and we do as I mentioned earlier, where they might send in product, we assemble, we place the product in the display and ship out to the retailer.

Dr. Mark Young (21:58.622) So when you're looking at like a Costco, Sam's Club, BJ's, is that one design for everything or are those stores different? Scott Fuselier (22:08.

855) Well, from a club store, they're pretty uniform in what they're looking for. It's pretty, you know, it's stackable trays a lot of times in the Costco and the Sam's piece. You really don't see a floor display, if you will. It's mostly stackable trays, which is, you know, and it might have some other components to it to kind of give it a little more life, if you will.

You get a little bit more intricate when you're getting into the grocery store that allows you to have some, some log-ons and headers and, and, and other intricate pieces that go with it along with the, you know, and then of course in the C stores, you get into some other pieces. So it all varies on where the end user is or the end retail space. Dr. Mark Young (22:58.

226) So let me ask you, if we were to take a look at Food Drug Mass Club, I'm gonna set C stores aside for a minute. So let's look at Food Drug Mass Club. Is it reasonable from a vendor standpoint that I probably have one set of displays for my club stores, I have one set of displays for my food stores, I have another set of displays for my drug. And maybe even depending on what I am, a different display for home centers that is it, is it fair to say drugstores are going to be fairly similar?

Grocery's going to be similar. Scott Fuselier (23:38.212) Yes, yes, for the most part, yes. I mean, because you're limited on the space that you have in there.

So obviously in a C store, in a drug store, much smaller footprint, power wings in a C store or rather in a drug store, whereas obviously in a grocery store, you get a little bit larger, you might be able to have a floor display, a base tray riser with the product sitting in there that is right on the end of a grocery aisle. where you go into a club store, obviously it gets bigger and bigger as we get into larger environments. Dr. Mark Young (24:15.

049) So how do we handle some of the shipping on this stuff? Because I'm assuming if I send you the product, you guys are gonna figure out how to maximize those inner packs and maximize those displays and try to reduce this thing down to having the least weight and fitting on the shelf. Scott Fuselier (24:35.661) That's right, Mark.

So there's what we also need to learn during this process is we're doing the planning of the execution of the display is how they're going to ship. Is it going to go on a pallet? Is it going to be simply stacking 20 displays on a pallet directly to the store? Typically, if it's going to go ground UPS or FedEx.

What we do is we also during this process, we'll do test shipments. So we'll do our own internal test shipments, ISTA testing to make sure that the product will simply put it on the back of our truck and drive it around Houston roads for a few days, bring it back. And that's a good test to see how the product, know, how it's. Justin Girouard (25:17.

006) Hmm Dr. Mark Young (25:19.907) Bring that thing to Metro Detroit and drive it around here for a while. If it can survive the Michigan potholes, you guys have it down.

Justin Girouard (25:23.342) That's very different experience. Scott Fuselier (25:28.526) So that's one way.

We also do test shipments. So we'll send it to UPS. We'll put a UPS label on it, send it to one of our locations up in the Northeast. They'll send it back to us.

So we'll see how the product travels to make sure that, most importantly, the customer's product's not damaged. But secondly, how does that corrugated display hold up? So when it gets to the store, we want the the the employee at the store to simply be able to open that brown box, this outer shipper, take that display out and, and we're, you know, it's simply just assemble it or put it up or attach a header when the product's already in it. Typically it's already fully erected.

And so it's just simply a, a, you know, we try, we need to make it as easy as possible. We understand that the workers in these stores are not going to take the care and the time to make sure everything is put together in the right aspect that it should be. So we are very cognizant of that challenge, if you will. Dr.

Mark Young (26:43.09) Yeah. And let's be honest folks. Okay.

I'm not, I'm not picking on any, any chain or any worker, but the people that are working in, in retail, racking the shelves are, are people that are modestly paid and no one is very few people are really excited about their job, cutting cardboard boxes open and putting stuff on shelves. Justin Girouard (27:05.806) they're not invested in your business, they really don't care. that's nothing against them.

Dr. Mark Young (27:08.636) Yeah. So, so to put it plain, it needs to be as idiot proof as possible.

It needs to be as plug and play as humanly possible. Scott Fuselier (27:19.619) That's right. That's right.

And that's how we go to market. honestly, we take that pain away from our clients so they don't have that anxiety of knowing, this display going to be what I'm, like, there's a lot of investment from tooling and everything else that goes into it. it's, as I started with, I mean, it's an introduction to your brand. You only get one chance to really get out there and show.

consumer how well your product is and if the display is not performing as it should or if it's busted on a corner and it's not a good look for anybody. So we make sure that it's going to arrive in one piece and it's going to retail like it's supposed to. Dr. Mark Young (28:02.

172) Yeah, it's very frustrating when you think about it because you as a man, as a manufacturer, as a vendor, you've, you've put all this money out. You're making all these shippers. You're fronting all this product to go out to the retailer and you need to, you needed to get to the floor. You needed to get to the floor and to be what it was intended to be.

And I think that's why it's important that this thing is, as I said, as plug and play as humanly possible. Now, you guys have digital print capabilities and is that on the display stuff or is that literally on packaging for the products themselves or on both? Scott Fuselier (28:45.059) We have a digital press up in our Worcester, Ohio facility.

It comes in handy for your sometimes startup brands. They don't need to go invest in tooling if it's, hey, I want to go try this for 100 stores or 250. That's where digital really comes in handy. There's no upfront costs.

Everything is high speed, it's digitally printed. We have high-speed CAD tables that'll cut the product for you. So there's no tooling costs, if you will, if you're trying to understand how the market works. So that's where digital comes in handy.

we do displays, simple, mean, boxes, two-sided print. It gives you an opportunity to be flexible. Sometimes if you might have a regional product. You might have something up in the Northeast that is college related where they want to showcase their local school.

At the same time, that same display could be out on the West Coast, but we tailor it more for the West Coast college, if you will. So or Midwest, whatever that case may be. So you're able to be more flexible with digital without having to invest in a production run of something that's just stagnant with the same same artwork. And I actually have a great example right now the customer we're doing both a digital piece of it and producing it with little label piece on it.

So it's a customer that's in the retail space in the grocery stores and they're marketing for the World Cup. They don't have the official license but they're doing a soccer thing and some of the parts of that piece they don't need a large run of it. So that allows us as Scott mentioned the flexibility on the digital press. Justin Girouard (30:32.

141) Mm-hmm. Dr. Mark Young (30:32.328) Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuselier (30:39.661) to run it that way. And then the displays that are run in higher quantities, we're running through with the Litho label and running those displays in the Houston plant. But we utilize our Worcester plant to bring it all together.

So that's kind of that enterprise that we leverage at BCI. Dr. Mark Young (30:54.696) So let's talk about the new, and we've talked about this on the show before, the now encroaching extended packaging regulations.

We have what, six states or eight states that now have that in place? Scott Fuselier (31:12.955) Yeah, I think it's up to seven now. Justin Girouard (31:15.

213) Yeah. Dr. Mark Young (31:16.094) and more to come.

Scott Fuselier (31:19.041) Yes. Yes. Dr.

Mark Young (31:20.208) So how are you guys helping your clients navigate that, to put it plain, mess? Scott Fuselier (31:26.775) Well, I mean, one of the ways is corrugated packaging is widely recycled in the U S and it's commonly referred to as the most sustainable material, right?

From a standpoint. we already got that advantage from, you know, it falls within the EPR strategies, right? One of the other things we're doing is EPR looks at life cycle thinking. And so we look at with our design team is how we can improve the life cycle of what's going in the box in the product.

I got a great example of a nutraceutical company where they were using a lot of plastic along with a corrugated shipper to protect the product. And air pillows, bubble wrap and stuff like that. And it was a significant amount of plastic. Through our design team, we went in and looked at that and created corrugated bracing things inside the box that allowed us to eliminate all the plastic from their shippers.

This was across six shippers. and all of them had a ton of plastic in it. We were able to take that out of there and only go to corrugated solution and then paper dunnage for some of the things that we needed to do. So that's one of those things from a life cycle, you know, looking at ERP.

We have to look at everything in that design, recycling, efficient corrugated packaging to comply with the EPR. Dr. Mark Young (32:49.64) So we can really take, when we look at this, we're responsible for this packaging going forward.

So there's a lot of ways then that you can work with a client and figure out how to reduce. cause like California measures how much weight you're sending into the state. So you guys are able to change the weight of what's coming into the state and then change the materials that are going into the state. Scott Fuselier (33:10.

083) That's right. Dr. Mark Young (33:20.304) and greatly reduce that future responsibility, if that makes sense.

Scott Fuselier (33:24.387) Yes, that's right. Yeah, we see corrugated not just an alternative to plastic, but as a strategic advantage for manufacturing for the next generation of packaging responsibility. so we look at that as another example, Matt, that I can think of is that that e-bike that we did, there was an e-bike that we did, you e-bikes are this particular one's about five grand.

And they had a ton of plastic inside of it. we took the entire, with the exception of one plastic piece, we had to keep it in there. Everything else went from plastic to corrugated. And it was a significant reduction in cost.

think the, was a couple hundred dollars in plastic that was, that they were using inside this package. And we removed that. And I think we got the cost down just on the corrugated components down to, 25, 30 bucks. So significant cost savings and you're with the EPR requirements, you're at a strategic advantage now.

Justin Girouard (34:38.261) So EPR is all about sustainability and right, that's the biggest thing. what are you seeing is the, is sustainability now as it relates to packaging in our current world and also where do you kind of see it going? Scott Fuselier (34:58.

915) You know, it's certainly on the front of everybody's mind, sustainability. I will say, I kind of say this, I've never met a customer who's willing to pay more for sustainable options, you know? That's one of the challenges we're trying to figure out. Now in our space, again, in Corrugated, we have the advantage of, know, curbside recycling.

It comes from paper, we're FSC certified, you know, and those are the kind of things that we focus on, and it gives us an advantage compared to other packaging. Many of the other packaging components are fighting an uphill battle, let's say. One of them you think about, you talk about states, a few years ago New Jersey banned packing peanuts, which many are following, right? Because it's just an old technology.

that's one of those things. And you always hate, I see you, Mark, kind of shake your head, when that box shows up with those packing peanuts, it's just a complete disaster. Dr. Mark Young (35:49.

065) it's a mess. It's a mess to clean up. Justin Girouard (35:49.198) Yeah.

Scott Fuselier (35:52.674) Yeah, and some other things though, speaking of EPR real quick, cold chain, we're looking at opportunities to get rid of the EPS cooler, which is that kind of standard cooler with the thing. So we're looking at more ways, cellulose and other ways like that. We're working with partners in the cold chain applications to drive that sustainability.

But again, we have to do it at a cost that's less than or at least equal to what it is today. And that cellulose is curbside recyclable. Justin Girouard (36:16.354) Right, right.

And so again, with your experience, because that's one of things you mentioned, we also see it too, Sustainability sounds nice until sometimes you see the price tagging clients like, How do you think brands and clients should actually be thinking about sustainability? Dr. Mark Young (36:16.626) Yeah, that's a big deal there.

Justin Girouard (36:39.372) because it's not just dollars and cents, in my opinion, but how do you think they should be looking at it as it relates to their packaging? What perspective should they have, especially with where the world seems to be going? Scott Fuselier (36:52.

483) Yeah, think, I mean, you certainly have to look at it and say, how can we drive sustainability and make sure that we're doing the right things for the future? you know, I give you another example where we're driving sustainability. What we look at is a customer that we were long haul shipping an automotive customer. And we looked at the truck and looking at Scott had mentioned we have a K program that allows us to see how the trucks pack down.

Well, just changing to a custom pallet to change the footprint. allowed us to put 30 % more into that truck. So we were helping the customer gain a win that way and they were very happy with that because not only is it efficient for them in their operations, it's a sustainable solution because you're getting more in that truck as you're hauling it over the road. And they were very pleased.

It also helped reduce damage because damage is another thing. You ask about what companies should be thinking about, damage is another thing they have to look at and we helped through that also. The e-bike example is a great one. We made that change and we did not see any increase in the damage of the shipments with all those reductions.

you know, damage is one of those stats. I don't have the stats in front of me, but damage product arriving to a customer is a very big carbon footprint because that product either has to be thrown away or, you know, reshipped, right? Or shipped back. I mean, there's multiple things that are working that way.

So those are a few items, you know, they can be thinking about to drive that sustainability. And then also e-commerce, we look at e-commerce, we have a dedicated two-sided taper. So you're building an e-commerce box, DDC, direct to consumer. Sometimes we love putting inside print on there so they get that wow factor when they get the product on their doorstep.

They open it up and it's sometimes a very expensive purse. And on the outside, it's simply, there's no artwork. Inside, it's that wow factor. You open it up, don't, these shoes or the purse doesn't work.

you simply just tear it off and there's another piece of double-sided tape on there, they can simply just return it. So you're using that box twice. You're not having to go get another box to ship it back to the retailer. Dr.

Mark Young (38:58.578) Well, it also sounds like you guys can really help our clients in some cases if they want to create an unboxing experience. Scott Fuselier (39:07.651) That's right.

yeah, absolutely. We thrive on that. Yes, yes. you know, as again, it's an introduction to your brand and we want that, that we call it the wow factor.

You you bought a very expensive purse, or whatever it is. doesn't need to be, you know, you can simply just do some simple artwork. You don't need to go five and six colors and be extravagant on the inside, but it can be a one or two color, simple, thanks for buying my product and a website and, Dr. Mark Young (39:10.

194) with some of more expensive products. Scott Fuselier (39:37.259) some other marketing slogans put on the inside of the package. It's a really good tool for brands to get out there.

Dr. Mark Young (39:47.73) Yeah, it sounds like this is, they could really work on, the higher priced items, Justin, on really helping ideate on that unboxing experience. Justin Girouard (39:48.

193) in it. Justin Girouard (39:57.846) I completely agree. Well, and so one of the questions I have for you, because I'd to get your guys' take on this, is sometimes when we're talking to clients, I don't think that they fully understand what I will say the impact of packaging has on not only the brand, their business and their customer, right?

They don't really consider it as much. They don't go in depth into how big of a decision and all the things that go into the decision when you're talking about your packaging and how important it really is. And so I'm just curious in your mind, I know this is big question, but... If you're sitting across the desk from one of our clients or one of your clients, how would you explain to them the impact that packaging is going to have on every aspect of your brand, business, and customer?

Dr. Mark Young (40:55.44) And let me add an item to that. Do you have any examples you could share with us where product A was on the shelf, repackaging, the package in isolation had X impact on their business?

Scott Fuselier (41:16.419) Well, so the first thing, yeah, the first thing I'll start with just an example, just that you kind of talked about the impact of packaging. So one thing I think about is you buy an iPhone, let's say, and you have that box that comes with it. It's actually hard to throw away that box that the iPhone comes in because it's such a beautiful piece of packaging.

That's how we approach things is how can we make it so that the consumer gets that box and doesn't want to throw it away? There's one example of expensive handbag manufacturers that we Dr. Mark Young (41:17.448) You don't need to give us the brand names, but...

Dr. Mark Young (41:32.762) It is! Justin Girouard (41:33.

91) Yes. Scott Fuselier (41:45.24) help produce and we have a beautiful box for the handbag that comes in and the outside it's discreet as Scott had mentioned and then the inside it's got a label on the inside with you know beautiful graphics that allow for that unboxing experience and someone's paying that much for a handbag they want that experience and then again it's another one of those boxes people want to hang on to and put on display because of the wow factor to it. I'll even add one more to it when I say the wow factor one of the things we pride ourselves on is making sure we're driving that factor for the customers.

If you ever get a chance to come tour a plant, we welcome anybody to tour the plant, we have a room that's called the Wow Room. And it has all our different products on display, the different processes we use to market and show people how we can drive and make their brand great. That's in the Wow Room, and that's why we call it the Wow Room. The Wow Room?

Dr. Mark Young (42:35.878) Where are those at? Scott Fuselier (42:40.

469) It's right here in the plant. We tour the plant with the customers and if we finish the tour, we take them into the wow room and show them everything that's on display there. It's set up like a retail environment. Dr.

Mark Young (42:50.726) Yep, which city is that wow room? Scott Fuselier (42:53.824) in Houston, Texas.

Justin Girouard (42:54.925) Is it? Dr. Mark Young (42:54.

928) In Houston. All right. It's interesting though, because in my mind, it's like, it would be worth people going there to see this and. Scott Fuselier (43:01.

109) Absolutely. We thrive on customers coming down here. We feel like they come see the operation and how we operate with our design and graphics and meet the team. Project managers, we help these brands come to life.

And I think that when we get an opportunity to work with a client, especially a complex program, we put project management on them and we make their lives easy. Justin, just to go back to one stat that we have here, and I think this is important because we can make that wow factor and it looks pretty and all that good stuff, but the most important piece is getting the product to the customer and safely. 73 % of consumers have returned an item due to damage. That's an internal stat that we have.

80 % of e-commerce returns are tied to damage or defects. And e-commerce return rates average 20 to 30 % nearly double brick and water. So we have to make sure that product is getting to the client, to the end user, and the, you know, safe. Justin Girouard (44:13.

92) Mm-hmm. Well, and some of the things you brought up earlier, right, to add on to those statistics, what's the cost of those statistics, right? So now you've got damages, now you've got product that you just lost. You just lost a customer.

I mean, you gotta try to keep them, because they may not order again because they just went through that experience, right? Scott Fuselier (44:24.451) That's right. Dr.

Mark Young (44:31.494) Right, because they may not order another one. Justin Girouard (44:37.526) Now you've got the cost of potentially them shipping it back, which if are you going to eat that if you're trying to do customer service, you might.

it's not just about the fact that, hey, I just made a bad experience for a customer and lost a customer, which is damaging. But the cost to your business and to your brand, the literal cost to your business and to your brand, if you're not thinking about the entire the entire life cycle of that package from start to finish. It will destroy you it can I mean we haven't talked about retailers, right? Ship a bunch of stuff to a retailer and have it come back damage You you want to know about costs?

Scott Fuselier (45:14.733) Yeah. That's significant. That's right.

Dr. Mark Young (45:19.005) Well, I'm going to tell you right now, if you, if you start shipping products to Walmart and the next three shipments in a row come in 8 % damaged or 10 % damaged truck after truck, after truck, you're not going to be at Walmart anymore. Scott Fuselier (45:35.

829) No, you're gonna be on the wall of shame. Dr. Mark Young (45:38.321) Yeah, because Walmart doesn't need you that bad.

They don't need anybody that bad. What's been the impact that you guys have seen? What have you witnessed in increased sales just due to package changes? Scott Fuselier (45:57.

444) think that when we talk about displays, right, and some of the customers that we've grown with in the energy space, that marketing with the displays and how they do that is really driven the revenue. One of the ones that we started with, you know, they were not one of the big brands in the energy space, but they've grown along with that and then, you know, been acquired by another bigger company. And I think that marketing through the right displays and the artwork that they choose and the partnerships that they choose that allow them really that social media impact is one part of it too, right?

get that out there and drive. That's where one, think we've seen a nice growth in sales by using the marketing techniques and working together with their graphics team or our graphics team and driving that wow factor from a marketing standpoint. Dr. Mark Young (46:41.

973) And here's something I want our listeners to really grab hold of and it's simply this. When we look at these packaging issues, getting products shipped that aren't damaged, meeting the extended packaging requirements of these states, you have two options in front of you. You can look at this as a hurdle. So you can look at this as a hurdle to overcome in your business and Always be chasing it from behind because I'm trying to figure out how do I solve the next problem.

Or you can get out ahead of this and turn your packaging capabilities into a feature that the retailers will now embrace you because Scott Fuselier (47:29.059) That's right. Dr. Mark Young (47:34.

157) If Walmart is coming back to you and asking you for your sustainability plan or coming back to you and asking you what you're doing in an EPR or how are you dealing with California? You're already behind the eight ball because they're having to come to you for this information versus you be expert at it. Use people like this, get out in front of it and make this part of your presentation when you're meeting with your retailers. Get it right out there.

We've already solved these problems. Let us show you how we're solving these problems right now. Scott Fuselier (48:12.003) You know, one of our one of our large clients in the energy space requests a carbon footprint for every display that we send out.

So we provide that. You know, even from a life cycle assessment, there's there's there's an LCA program that we can also provide of how the package comes from point A to point B and what that material coming in, you know, the raw material of sheets coming into us and then If there's Litho and we can put all that those different parameters into a program that spits out a nice sheet, if you will, or an Excel document that tells the end user, client, what that life cycle assessment is.

So sometimes we provide that as well. Dr. Mark Young (49:00.174) It hits me as being similar to like an MSDS on chemicals where you kind of have a sheet and this is all the specs and this is the history of it.

Justin Girouard (49:04.418) Yeah. Right. Justin Girouard (49:12.

718) Well, and it sounds like again, we're the future and none of us can tell the future, but the signs are all there that the sustainability conversation isn't going away and brands need to stop looking at it like a cost because now it's just part of the game. You have to do it now. There's no way around it. So as Mark mentioned, Dr.

Mark Young (49:20.112) It's not going to get easier. Dr. Mark Young (49:39.

803) Yeah, and the brands that are out in front are going to be the brands that are going to be more desirable by the big retailers. Justin Girouard (49:45.582) 100 % and it sounds you know what Scott matter talking about is is They've been doing their best to get out in front of it to not only find a way to execute it effectively But finding a way to execute it in a way that that isn't Cost inefficient that they're actually finding creative ways to say hey you're at about the same cost or not the same cost and you're sustainable now, which is not only keeping you in play and doing the things like Mark, like you're talking about, which is what retailers are looking for.

So now it's a feature. But when you think about where EPR is going, long term, you're reducing your cost. So it actually is a cost reduction move. Now, at this point, it's not about increasing cost at all.

It's actually efficiencies. Dr. Mark Young (50:31.218) Yeah, this is so these guys are what we refer to as and I believe this not because you're here.

These guys are what we refer to as a super who. And a super who means you have a who for your how, who has massive capabilities and resources that can solve a lot of problems, not just one problem. They can solve weight, can solve display, they can solve different distributions. can, you know, they can solve, you know, varying the printing from region to region.

So, I mean, that's a, that's a super who for your business. This is a valuable thing. Guys, tell, tell our audience how to interact with you. How, what's the best way for them to get started working with you guys in BCI.

Justin Girouard (51:17.387) Absolutely. Scott Fuselier (51:29.485) Sure, simply go to our website, bcipkg.

com. And on that page, you'll find a contact us page and it'll, I would select either the corporate office or the Houston division. I would select the Houston division simply because Matt's runs the sales out of this facility. And then you can just simply shoot out.

Stay contact us there and Matt will get an email and we'll reach out to you. Probably the easiest way to find us. Dr. Mark Young (52:05.

031) Super. folks, if you go to the show notes, we'll have that in the show notes. So don't worry about needing to write it down right now. Guys, this has been super helpful.

there any last things you would like our audience to know about you guys before we wrap up? Scott Fuselier (52:21.111) Now this has been a great conversation this morning, Mark and Justin, we appreciate it. think that, you know, one takeaway that I would just leave with the, you know, we help our clients.

We're the experts. We know what to do. We make your life easy. give us your challenge and we'll take care of it.

We know the retail space very well and we can help you grow your brand and get it out there for. the consumer to the expectations that they expect, we will provide that. Dr. Mark Young (52:59.

367) Super. Guys, I appreciate you being with us. Justin, do have any last comments you want to ask or anything? Justin Girouard (53:04.

224) No, no, I just appreciate your guys' time. This has been a great conversation and important. Dr. Mark Young (53:08.

335) is great. And folks, I can tell you that we're going to be sending clients over to BCI. So you should be listening to these guys. Everybody, if you enjoyed today's show, please make sure you go to wherever you get your podcast.

Leave us five star review. If you're not following the show, hit the little subscribe button that you see there. And then you'll get all the, all these shows when they come out. Remember there's notes.

So if you go to where you get your podcast, you can get a transcript of the show. You can get. Justin Girouard (53:13.39) Absolutely.

Dr. Mark Young (53:36.037) the URLs and the contact information for BCI. And other than that, that's it for today on CPG Insiders.

I want to remind everybody the 27 unbreakable rules of retail, how to build a hundred million dollar plus CPG business is available. You can go to Amazon to get your copy and the book. did come out, what was that, two weeks ago, Justin, and the book did come out as the number one book in new releases. So the book hit number one on Amazon, and I'm very grateful for everybody who listens who went out and bought the book.

We thank you for that. And now maybe there's a 28th rule. These guys might've just become the 28th rule of the 27 rules. I'm gonna have to go back and rewrite the book now.

Justin Girouard (54:22.606) you Justin Girouard (54:29.162) sounds like. man.

Dr. Mark Young (54:31.537) That's it. That's it for today, folks.

We'll see you on the next episode of CPG insiders.