Microsoft Offers 60,000 Employees a Buyout & AT&T Brings Jobs Home

Welcome back to the weekend jobs. It's Friday, October 30th. The day before Halloween, Peter, we have some scary news to share this week. Halloween Eve.

Yeah, we got we got some uh some spooky spooky stuff to talk about. I'm doing my part. I've got my skeletons on, skeletons in the yard, ready for trick-or-treating tomorrow. How about you?

Uh yeah, I've got I've got a couple of things I need to do, some last-minute prep, but uh I'm pretty much ready, ready to have a Halloween on a Saturday. It'll be it'll be nice to spend the whole day doing it. Absolutely. But unfortunately, there was some really scary news that came out this week.

Microsoft is offering a buyout to 60,000 employees. 60,000, that's hard to even wrap your brain around. Yeah, it's it's crazy because it's not, I guess it's not being classified as a layoff. It's it's voluntary.

Um, some people are taking it, obviously. Uh, it does beg the question if people don't take it, where are they gonna go, you know, down the road? Is it gonna become a little bit more involuntary? Um, I do wonder.

But yeah, they're they're claiming that they're they're trying to become more global and uh yeah, and doing some consolidating. It's it's a little concerning though, because you know, it's obviously Microsoft, it's one of the biggest companies in the US. Um, the six so to see 60,000 jobs going away potentially, it it's it's uh definitely scary for Halloween. Now, they didn't say it's attributed to AI, but how long are we going to let this continue?

Now, some of the things we'll talk about later on, they are saying it's directly related to AI because this wasn't the only layoff this week, but certainly the biggest. I don't know that I've ever heard a number this big, and it's not like as you said, it's a buyout, it's not a layoff. But what happens to those employees who decline, right? I mean, clearly they intend to offboard them from the company.

So maybe you should accept it versus having a less attractive offer later when you're forced out. So it's an absolute mess. And they're they are getting a lot of heat because this ties into a lot of recent talk of H1Bs. We've talked about that a lot.

Yep. Specifically, workers from India are very prevalent here. Microsoft was just temporarily suspended from the perm program tied to H1Bs. So they are just they're just making things worse for themselves.

I was gonna ask you, did you think this had anything to do with the recent news? Like they were they uh Microsoft and Oracle were the two big ones that were called out for the H1B program. Do you think this has anything to do with that at all? Who knows?

Right? We we could speculate. I I don't really want to know. I'm not close enough to um to know what the fine print is with this, so to speak.

But here's what they did say. Now, this is I'll say it's alleged because this was a clip that was out on Twitter. Supposedly it comes from an AMA session that Microsoft had a couple of days ago, where one of their executive VPs said, we are going to be global and we are going to continue to bring global talent to the United States. So it doesn't seem they've been discouraged from going down this path.

Yeah, global is just a keyword for outsourcing. Uh we know that from lots of companies that have used it in the past. Um, I saw that that post as well. Um obviously this is internal.

There's this is nothing you know official posted by the company, but they were claiming that a lot of internal people were wondering why H1Bs weren't being cut and a lot of these American workers were being offered this buyout instead. Um all of this is we don't know the the exact particulars of it, but it does make you wonder why the company is seemingly is reducing a lot of their American workforce and then potentially talking about expanding to other you know global other countries.

Yeah, so let's let's continue down this path because companies are free to do whatever they want, but American workers or rather American consumers don't have to accept this from the companies we choose to do business with. And Microsoft is just one of a very long list. And I want to call some of these out today. This is something you and I talk about offline a lot, but we started pulling some data on the size of the offshore jobs that American companies are using.

And the case, as we know, for the H1B visa program is to bring talent to America we wouldn't otherwise have. The best and the brightest. And when used correctly, that's what it does. And there's good reason for that, right?

We want to make sure that American companies can be as competitive as possible. We want to we want to beat our competition, right? All the other companies or countries out there. So it makes sense for that program to exist.

And often it's criticized as just using cheap labor. And we know that this system has been abused for a long time, and the federal government is really cracking down on it. We've talked about that quite a bit recently. But what doesn't get enough attention is the jobs that are offshore because there is no reason other than cheap labor to offshore jobs from American companies with workers that could be here.

Is there another case to be made for that? No, and I mean, frankly, a lot, I would say the majority of the jobs that are offshore to India, we know are jobs that would be good for American workers. These are not highly specialized roles. I mean, there's the there's the most widely one that's talked about is you know, call centers in India.

These are jobs that that could be going to Americans, but because they can pay somebody the equivalent of five or ten dollars less an hour over in in you know in India, the companies are cutting costs. And we've talked ad nauseum about the the problems that entry-level people and young people are having getting into the job market. So it does make me um a little bit uh depressed, frankly, to see as many companies. This was a thing I know in the in the 90s that was coming up, it seemingly went away, and there was a big push to bring American jobs back.

And even now we talk about bringing American manufacturing jobs back, but there is there are so many white-collar, for lack of a better word, jobs that are offshore to other countries that are seemingly not talked about that would make great jobs for Americans, and there's no reason other than, like you said, to cutting costs to not hire American workers. Necessary jobs, right? That American workers could be in right now. And while again, there's no legal reason for them not to do it.

I personally think they should there should be some ramifications, but the American consumers are the ones that are in the best position to hold these companies accountable. And it just doesn't happen. It doesn't get noticed, it doesn't get talked about. And this is much bigger than the H1B program.

So there's from our research, our best estimate is there are at least one and a half million jobs that are outsourced to India, in particular by American companies, into what they call the global capability centers over in India. And it may be as high as 2 million, could could be more. But let's go through some of the companies and the numbers. And we'll do it quickly because I don't know how interesting this is to everyone listening.

I think the awareness should be increased, and that's why it's worth talking about. But again, uh, why do you think that this just gets largely ignored by the press, by American consumers? We just accept it at this point. Is that what's going on?

I I think it's yeah, it's it's become so widespread. And by the way, this isn't like we're talking about India because it's the biggest, you know, uh the biggest source that a lot of these companies are going to, but there are other companies, other countries that also are outsourcing. So that number is obviously a lot bigger, just jobs that are, if we take it and say outsourced outside of the US that could be easily done here. Um but it's it's just people are, I feel like, overwhelmed.

You know, a company like Microsoft is obviously has competitors, but it's it's so huge, it's such a you know, you can't get away from it. It's Microsoft owns so many different areas. It's I'm not gonna say a monopoly, but they have such a market share that it's hard to get away and not use their services. And how how does an average consumer fight back about that?

Because if I if you go on the street and you talk to the average job seeker, somebody on the job market, somebody who might not even be aware of this situation, I would say that the one the ones I've talked to are pretty much they are in agreement with us that, yeah, if a company is based in the US, they should be trying to contribute to the US economy with jobs and help the job market here and not be cutting costs just because they can to you know increase their their shareholder profits, hiring people in other countries.

Well, look, there's there's an opportunity to vote with your wallet and who who you're gonna spend your money with. So just when you run down this list, I mean to me it's staggering. And I we know these numbers, but every time I see them, it just occurs to me that this is such a having such a significant impact on the American workforce. IBM, 85,000 jobs, Amazon, 65,000, JP Morgan Chase, 55,000, Citigroup, 33,000, Wells Fargo, 30,000, Dell, 25,000, Oracle, 25,000.

I mean, this just goes on and on. United Health, Bank of America, Qualcomm, Cisco, Ford, Ford, Ford has 12,000 employees over there, Honeywell, Intel, Salesforce, Walmart, Walmart, even, right? Walmart. I mean, these are American institutions that are sending jobs offshore instead of hiring American workers just to cut costs.

I, you know, we ignore it, we we let it happen, and it's and it's only growing. I mean, it's estimated that these uh global capability centers in India are going to add another half million non-tech jobs by 2028. So not only is this not going in the opposite direction, it's it's just picking up speed. And yeah, and and from what I'd read that of those global capability centers, 70% of that demand is coming from the US.

So it's the US is the biggest proponent of using these outsourced, you know, technology uh outsourced people. Um, so other countries are not or seemingly are investing more in their their internal uh economies. And obviously, I'm not gonna speak for for all the different the countries. I know that each one has their own issues, but the we are the we're the biggest um the biggest contributors to this outsourcing, I'll say epidemic that these companies are using.

And by far. Yeah, it it it it is, I think, like you said, people know it, but I feel like when you when you see the companies out there, none of those ones are surprising to me because those are the big companies in the US, they're all household names. Uh, but the numbers that are attached to them is crazy. It's a choice.

And listen, I couldn't care less about uh other countries. If if European countries want to outsource offshore their jobs, fine, go go nuts, right? We we're not concerned with that. We care about the American workforce.

Um, we're part of the American workforce. Our friends and family, our communities are part of the American workforce. And when you look at these numbers, they just the list just continues. Goldman Sachs, American Express, Fidelity, Verizon, Caterpillar, Caterpillar, Target, PayPal, Morgan Stanley, Boeing, Uber, Pepsi, DoorDash just announced 3,000 jobs.

These are all giant numbers. Yeah, I mean, and so look, I I I wish this would get more attention. I think consumers have an opportunity and an absolute right to put more pressure on American companies to hire locally, hire in the US. And if they can't get employees here, which we know is not a problem because the jobs that are being outsourced, as you said earlier, are the ones that people who are earlier early in their career could be filling.

And so while that problem worsens, this situation grows and no no one's really talking about it. So we we felt compelled to um we could do a whole show on this, maybe we will at some point, but whatever can raise awareness of this, I think is important to do. Yeah, and we talked about this being entry-level, but even just look, I've I've been you know looking at some of these global capability centers that they call them. And a lot of the jobs are not even uh just entry level.

There's e-commerce, there's markets, things that could be these are good, solid white-collar jobs that American workers could have that are purely moved over there so that they can, so a company can pay someone less, they can pay less taxes, and so there's no good re reason other than profits for the company. Um, and it's these are companies that are based, as you said, in the US. These are American companies that should be hiring and contributing more to the American workforce.

Yeah, now this if you if you want more info on that, you know, send us a message. We're happy to share the sources. But there is a a bright spot here, something that was just announced yesterday. And this is absolutely worth calling out.

This came from Brendan Carr, who's chairman of the FCC. He announced that ATT, so American Telephone and Telegraph, right? ATT is bringing back all their call center and customer service jobs to the U.S.

They'll have that completed um, I believe, within the year. Yeah, by the end of next year, end of the year. Is what they committed to doing. So that is great news.

I think ATT should be celebrated for that. Yeah, I we've we went into this show. I'm you know, talking about this, and we were thinking that we were just gonna have bad examples. So I'm glad that that came out yesterday, uh, or was it the 28th?

So that's um it's really great news, and I'm glad to see it. I hope more companies follow suit. Um, it does seem like obviously, with the the talk of H1Bs, the sentiment in the government is shifting to trying to push more jobs back um into the US. So hopefully that uh we continue seeing more of that.

It really is. And this isn't new, as you said. This is this really picked up speed in the 90s, early 90s is when it started to happen. And um seeing AT ⁇ T make a change, uh, increasing probably the quality of their customer service.

Yes, they may have to pay a little more for the workers. You do get what you pay for. That's typically how it goes. Um, but they're taking the step, good, good for them.

And and hopefully that gets more press because I've only seen that mentioned on Twitter. Can't call it X, have to call it Twitter. Um, but you'd think the mainstream media would pick up on that because it's really good news and it's important news for the American people, um, and something that we can all celebrate without making any making it a political issue for one. Well, do you think that like you know, you talk about this not being covered?

Do you think this is the this is just indicative of why people don't seem to care or maybe know about outsourcing in general? It's not something that's important to people. If you're not on the job market, you don't think about the job market. Is it too large, too abstract for the everyday person to you know consider it?

I I I don't know, but yeah, yeah, this is I've only really seen this in like one, I saw one article that quoted it outside of of Twitter. And it this should be something that seems like it's more of a big story. It should be. Um, I you know, you see, you said if you're not on the job market, you know, it may not be important to you, but don't we all know someone who is?

Don't we all know someone who's looking for a better job, looking for a job at all? We we I think everyone at this point knows how difficult employment is for recent grads, for young people. Right now, the state of the market for that group in particular is poor. And I think most job seekers, at least what um all the feedback that we receive tells us their perception is the job market is bad.

Now, historically, it it isn't necessarily. We have about as many openings as there are people looking for jobs right now, which is a pretty healthy job market. But any anytime a company commits to hiring American, an American company, and this is what I'm talking about. I think we're talking about specifically, an American company should prioritize American workers.

Um, that should be a big deal to everyone. Yeah. And I mean, everyone, every person in my personal life and every candidate that I talk to, like you should be aware of what's going on. Even if you are not personally, like you said, you might know somebody.

It's good to know. I mean, that's part of the reason why we started doing this show is to help spread awareness about the job market. Because if if you were just heads down in your day-to-day life, you might not be paying attention to it, but it is something that that you should be aware of what's going on out there because you never know how things change. All right.

So good job, ATT. That's a treat the day before Halloween, but unfortunately, some more tricks were were in the news this week. More cuts, and this is two weeks in a row. We have a list of household names that are that are cut.

So Sky Dance is making a big cut. Um, you know, that that's probably not the biggest household name, but uh Sky Dance is, you know, these jobs are going to be cut in LA. About 4,500 uh people in film and production are losing their jobs. And say AI specifically, but they quoted a five-day return to office mandate, but then they also have a voluntary buyout.

So, you know, we're seeing, we're seeing the the RTO still never never goes away. Companies still trying to pull that. Um, you know, I'm not a fan, I'm not a fan of the five-day. I could I could see the hybrid, but yeah, they're they're full-time returning to office for a lot of people.

Uh yeah, I mean that that that's still a thing. So maybe these workers will be happy to find a job where they don't have to go into the office. Although we know that that that trend is is is still underway of making employees come back to the office. Scripps eliminates 431 jobs.

Dropbox cut nine percent of its workforce, people six percent of its workforce. And then the one that there's a couple kind of anomalies that that that really caught my attention this week is the Dutch government. Yeah, that's a little, that was out of the left field, plans to cut 25,000 jobs, which is a significant portion of their overall uh workforce. And they are saying because of AI.

So we can't the the AI deniers can't, yeah. I mean, how long can you say it's not impacting jobs? Yeah, that one was uh that was surprising, um especially because of just the sentiment. But yeah, they're that they're removing such a large portion and straight up saying that this is because of an AI overhaul, because of AI savings.

Um, I was surprised to see that one. Uh, we'll see how that goes. Or more, maybe more governments will uh will follow suit. Um, I guess it's probably good that they're they're cutting costs, you know.

Maybe that'll be helpful for the uh the people paying taxes, but we'll see. I would not have anticipated the Netherlands leading the way with technology, but here we are. They're they're doing it. So we'll see how to do that.

So and then uh you see Proton, um, that they're they're they are going to be re-interviewing their existing staff about AI to decide who keeps their job. How do you feel? How do you feel about that? So I think re-interviewing current employees is is a is a weird, it's certainly not a morale booster.

We know that. Makes me think of office space. Like, what do you what would you say you do here? Well, Bob, um yeah, that um uh I understand why, but I think the message here is to anyone who is an employee is you have to take it upon yourself to learn AI.

And we talk about that a lot. We have over the past year, where the data that we've seen, the surveys that we've talked about show that generally speaking, most workers who aren't being having AI forced upon them or required to use it, aren't evolving and adapting um with AI at the same pace as workers who are required to use it. You but that's gonna damage your career. That's gonna limit you.

It's gonna limit you in your job search. It's and in this case, it's going to limit you at your current employer. So this is a this is an interesting one for sure. Well, and it's specifically, it sounds like that they're asking people to show you know two or three areas, specific examples of areas that the AI is in helping improve their job.

And so their own workers' level of AI adoption is the that's the yardstick that they're measuring to see whether they're useful to keep going forward. And if they the results quote, may lead to changes in roles, responsibilities, or continued employment. So yeah, that's um that's and and we don't know enough about this to to say whether this is largely a formality, if it's just that's true. I don't know, a scare tactic.

I don't know why you'd apply a scare tactic to your internal employees, but uh Again, it's certainly not going to enhance morale. Um, it's going to be a morale killer, if anything. But maybe they're doing it just to prove the point that this is really important because we know AI adoption is not universally happening. There are a lot of people who really have no interest in it.

There's those who have great interest in interest in it. So perhaps just a way of encouraging their employees to get on board with it. I don't know. That's that's just a complete that's a good point.

A line in the sand effectively saying, hey, you know, we are at we're going to point blank ask you what areas you're using AI, and that's going to be part of you know your evaluation. So that's a good point. So we'll see. We'll we'll monitor what happens at at Proton.

I know you love your Proton mail. So um we uh we do we did have another trick. I this was a a real surprise to me, Florida. I I generally think where we are, the state that we live in is thriving compared to most states, but Wallet Hub put out their ranking of the best and worst states for jobs in 2026, and Florida was 47th out of 50.

That was yeah, that was uh definitely a surprise there um seeing how they they ranked it, and I know that they they use different you know categories. What was the um what were the parameters that they were saying, you know, that they they may base this 47th off of? Yeah, I'll read I'll read what they said. They they they rated each state on 34 metrics from zero to 100.

Job market specifically is worth 60 percent of the score. That makes uh 22 of the metrics were were tied to that, and economic environment is worth 40 percent. The other 12 metrics were tied to that. So I again I I was I surprised by that.

Nebraska came in number one overall. I guess I would also be surprised by that, but apparently there's more going on in Nebraska than I realized. But um, yeah, I didn't I didn't think our our state was uh was going to show up so low on the list. Yeah, um I have to think uh you know perhaps it's it's the the cost of living, you know.

The the obviously you said that there's the economic growth, um, potential for economic growth. So you know, maybe you know, seeing this list, comp states like Nebraska, who are often overlooked, they do have these, you know, burgeting markets, and there's less competition, but more chance for growth there. Um it's a it was it's an interesting article to read, though. Yeah, so if you want to check that out on Wallet Hub, uh it goes into a lot of detail that would be boring to read over uh over the air here.

But yeah, Florida, we gotta pick up, we gotta pick up the pace for next year and come in a whole lot higher. Um exactly. All right, so tricks and treats this week. This was a this was a this was a weird week.

Next week's gonna be weird because we have the election, the midterm elections on Tuesday, but then we have the jobs data coming out throughout the week. So I really don't think yeah, it's going to impact anyone's vote at this point. But next Tuesday we'll see the job openings and labor turnover numbers. That's gonna happen on the same day as the elections.

Did you already vote? I already voted, yeah. I did early voting. I didn't want to try to skip the lines.

So I'll planning a vote on Tuesday. ADP's numbers come out, their forecast is around 80,000 jobs to be added. And then the big one, which is the BLS employment report, is coming out with a four on Friday with a forecast of about 40,000 jobs. I guess there was no way they could squeeze that out uh by Monday to see if it can affect or uh impact the election, or maybe they don't want to.

That's that's what I was gonna say. Maybe they're trying to hold off on that. Although, like you said, I don't know how many people's our minds are gonna be made up on Monday evening as they see these numbers and decide to change. Yeah, so we'll well, we'll have a lot, a lot to talk about next Friday.

It's gonna be a lot of data and really telling. Um post-election, we'll know the results by then, unless it's a flashback to 20 years ago. Um fingers crossed. We should know the election, uh, the results, and we'll we'll have the latest jobs data to share next Friday.

So join us then. Um, but in the meantime, what are you dressing up for tomorrow? Or I got like I'm I'm gonna be doing uh Frankenstein. Well Frankenstein's monster, I should say.

Sorry, for those pedantic out there. But uh yeah, Frankenstein's monster, my wife will be bride of Frankenstein. Nice. All right, I look forward to seeing the pictures.

I'll be in my standard skeleton costume. So if you've stuck with the Zispar, thanks for listening. Pass out big candy bars with the kids. Yeah, contribute to the uh to the cavities of the kids and uh have Halloween bring Halloween back.

I I hate seeing uh the people that that go by and you know skip past houses and trying to trying to bring it back in my neighborhood and and have the kids walking around. Yeah, don't don't be one of those who turns your lights off and pretends you're not home. Don't do that. Yeah.

Yeah, get get a little bit of candy out there for you for them. All right, cool. Happy Halloween, everyone. Talk to you next week.

Bye.