The Inner Work of Entrepreneurship with J. Kyle Howard (Ep168)

Speaker A: You know, business has a way of having you do some internal work because you have to improve. Like, you have to change your vibe. Like, there's things that you have to change about yourself in order to do business, uh, or entrepreneurship. And I didn't what it did. It opened up some things about me that I had swallowed down for years.

Speaker B: And m. Welcome, everyone, to this week's Consulting Matters podcast. I am your host, Betsy Jordan, and I am in the middle of a very special series that I have on the show, which I am calling Where Are They Now? Which is my opportunity to catch up with some of my clients that I've worked with several years ago so that you can hear what it looks like or actually not hear what it looks like so you can see what it looks like to sustain your success over time and how things evolve. So this week, I have on the show Jay Kyle Howard. So we worked on his business back in 2020. So, like Denise, he was also a CIO trying to figure out how do I package up what I do to relate to other people who might want a technology solution? And he got stuck with his message. And that is when we started to work together. We clarified his message, and then when he went in a totally different direction, and I think he might have pendulum swung in another direction. So I'm really excited to have him on the show so you could hear more about, like, how you're deepening understanding of yourself and, you know, really kind of shifts things around and brings you back to home and then maybe in a new packaging. So without further ado, welcome to the show, Jay Kyle.

Speaker A: Thank you. I am happy to be here. It has been quite the ride, an interesting journey.

Speaker B: Bring me back to. Okay, so we did start working together in the pandemic, I think, is when it was. So let's, like, ground everybody in your story. And if you missed his story, he was one of my early, early, early podcast guests, and he talked a lot about overcoming imposter syndrome. And your dream business is an amazing episode. I'll put the link in the show notes, but for those who don't know, you, um, ground us in your background and where you were at around 2020 in your business build process.

Speaker A: So in 2020, I didn't realize it at the time, but, uh, what I needed more than anything else was healing. And, you know, just based on the conversations we had and the focus, you know, business has a way of having you do some internal work because you have to improve. Like, you have to change your vibe. Like, there's things that you have to change about yourself in order to do business, uh, or entrepreneurship. And I didn't what it did, it opened up some things about me that I had swallowed down for years. Um, just, you know, everybody here is their thing. But uh, there was just some personal traumas that I tried to just ignore. And the entrepreneurship rod kind of opened those things up. And so what I really needed, uh, in order to move forward was to settle those things. Um, I was trying to take those things and just kind of put them in my backpack and just move forward. But the funny thing is nothing ever goes undone and I had to address those. And so I kept flip flopping, uh, maybe I'll focus on this, or maybe I'll focus on this. And I wound up trying to become my own personal guru. And uh, because those things were starting to surface, um, and a lot of it I couldn't articulate, like, you know, something's wrong, but I can't really say what it is. But as I kept, as we kept going through the process, the entrepreneurial process and the marketing, it just kept bringing up some like these brick walls that I kept running into. And I just had to stop and refocus. And so that's where we were, you know, in 2020. And so I decided that I needed to leave Richmond, Virginia and move out to San Diego, where I had been briefly and felt at home there. And it just seemed like it was calling me. And so I wound up packing up whatever I could fit my vehicle and took a 33 day drive out here to San Diego. And uh, you know, I did bring a little residue with me. But through that process I was able to really discover the thing that has been driving my personal career. And it's been a 30 year problem for me. And uh, on the, you know, the way we work through the entrepreneurial process, it just kind of gave me uh, a step by step way to uncover this 30 year problem. That is all that I've always seen it. And I've been in multiple different businesses, oil and gas, multimedia, across different industries. And that problem existed everywhere I went. It almost sounded like the problem was me, but I mean it was an operational thing, uh, that I saw and it shows up as uh, delays in project completions, people disconnected from outcomes. Like these are things that are no one accounts for. Like it doesn't show up anywhere but it impacts the business ability to perform. And so, and I've seen it everywhere and I just didn't know how to articulate it in a way that I could create A business off of that until now. And I just kind of figured that out.

Speaker B: So it sounds like back in 2020 or maybe like a little bit before. So you were a Chief Technology Officer before we met. And it sounds like your desire to go on your own entrepreneurial path is like on an extra. There was external reasons why, but really on your standpoint, it was like it was an internal thing. Like something was going on in you that was drawing you to do something else, but you didn't know what it was. And it sounds like the brand positioning and messaging process that we did was sort of like a container to kind of work through some of those issues.

Speaker A: Yes. Uh, I followed the process. You know, I had my, my goal that was bigger than me becoming a Chief Information Officer for this multibillion dollar organization. And the day that I got the promotion was the worst career day of my life because it didn't fix anything. I was still dissatisfied. You know, like, I could always, you know, put on a suit and tie and go to work. That was my costume. And so the work me could leave that personal me at home. And so I thrived there. But after hours, man, it was. It's gotten so bad. When I got the promotion, I stepped out of the CEO's office and I thought, there's not one person I can call to celebrate this with. And I did it, you know, because my personal life, I just didn't want to engage in it. Work was always available for me, and that's what I focused on. And so I didn't build those relationships up. I didn't even understand. Um, like an interesting thing happened this year. Um, I've been carrying this weight of feeling unloved in my own family, but my mom just celebrated her 90th birthday and I went back begrudgingly and I walked her in. And now, you know, I'm, um, open and transparent. This love just hit me in the face. It was so overwhelming. I literally had to run in the bathroom because I didn't know what to do with all these feelings. And it hit me that people had been loving me. I just didn't understand or recognize that that's what that was, because in my mind, it was something else. Like I was expecting something else. So it was just those things. Uh, and before you can really be successful outside, the inside has to, you know, just be available to you that way.

Speaker B: Yeah. So for you, the whole business build process was an inner journey.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And it sounds like it was more, less about, like, what am I going to achieve and who is More around who am I becoming? And then I'm going to achieve more of the authentic thing out of that.

Speaker A: Right. And you ask the perfect questions, um, for the business reasons, but they internalized for me to make me look inside. And so I guess you became my psychologist or therapist.

Speaker B: Well, apparently I. Apparently I did not realize, like, how, uh, reflective my process really is, you know, because it's, like, so much of, like, part of, like, who I am. And, you know, and I've been noticing, like, a trend, like, some people are really uncomfortable with it. And I had a woman on my podcast who. Who does a lot of stuff on, you know, um, failure, resistance or what have you. And she told me about this research that she had heard where if that people, like, feel like looking at themselves is like, their. Their feeling about it is on the level of, like, their feelings about getting electric shocks. And I'm like, really, Like, I'm like, I'm putting this together for my people. Like, I should really be more sensitive about what I'm doing here. Like, I didn't know I was inviting people to get electric shocks, you know, like, having that kind of experience. But it is hard work to look within and figure out, like, well, what is here? And, you know, why is it that I was chasing a dream that really wasn't mine, you know, is somebody else's dream? And how do I connect in with what actually, uh, who I am and what I want. That's a really hard thing. Like, I think we all say, who am I? You know, I want to know who I am and what I want. But do we really want to know who we are and what we want? Like, I think it's like, push, pull. Do we really want to know the answer?

Speaker A: And you said something key, too, because, you know, in that process, you realize, like, what thoughts of mine, like, we've been fed, who we're supposed to be, what we're supposed to believe. Like, our entire lives, people are telling us these things. And so you go off on your path to chase this dream. It's not even yours. Yeah. It's just someone projected this, that this is what you should be. And then when you get there, you're like, huh. Huh. That wasn't it. And so you switch careers or you wind up living this miserable existence. Like, you're on a treadmill running, but you're not getting anywhere. And, you know, Betsy, you show up at the right time when people really need that. Right? And I know you show up for a reason, and it may not be the reason that People need, but you pull that out. And I've seen it with other people as well. Like in our group, where the questions, it just make you internal and it comes out in a way and the focus is on the business stuff, but we can't have, uh, anything personal until we fix that thing and wherever. So you've been like this museum. You've been, you know, inspirational and thought provoking and you kind of get down in there where. And you do it in a way that's sort of undercover. Like, no one expects you to get that deep. I didn't. But, you know, it's just the way that you approach things and you kind of, when you realize that she asked this deep question is too late, because it's in there now. You got to address it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, I could keep people at a distance, but you have this disarming approach of asking questions that just make you think. And I felt really bad because I felt like, why can't I come up with a thing? Because I was just way too distracted up here, you know, just trying to fix all the things that was going on inside. And

Speaker B: so I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I do what I do because I've been thinking a lot about, a lot about like this whole idea around, like the word of the reflection and where some of the process comes from. And I really believe, like, mid career people who kind of hit the top and wonder what it's for and say, I want to like, take, I want to ditch it all and I want to start my own business. It's never really about their career, you know, it's always about their lives. And when I was leaving Disney, I know that that was what my journey was all about. And I got really, um, attached to the her, the hero's journey, but that Joseph Campbell really captured. And it's like I've always seen the, like the process of the work that we're actually going through as we reinvent ourselves in this, like, more authentic kind of expression through the concepts of the heroic journey. And it's like, so I understand like that, like, to me the business build process or the brand messaging and positioning, like, that's the external work to do, the internal work. Just like, you know, when Luke went on the journey to become a Jedi, you know, the real work was of him dealing with his dad, you know, and, you know, his lineage and, you know, all of those issues. And I think that that's where the challenge is, is that, well, like you said, it's like this, this Corporate kind of like responsibility. It's like it's armor and it protects you. And then when you leave it, well, you don't have it anymore. Like, so you have to kind of decide. And I think that's where people get kind of double minded in their business, is that, uh, they're going to be like, I want to let that go, but now I'm going to go subcontract because, like, I can't let that go. And you know, like, so now they're in that push, pull. And I think that's why, like, it took me forever to pivot my business from consulting to what I do now is like, just because, you know, I grew outgrew consulting and I, you know, I no longer loved it. But it's like, but this is what I know. This is who I am. And everyone's like, well, why would you ever give it up? You can command a, uh, you know, a, uh, commander room of a bunch of executives. I'm like, yeah. And whoa, you know, here lies Betsy. She can, you know, that'll be on my gravestone. Here lies Betsy. She could command a room of executives. That is my legacy. That is what I'm known for, you know, rather than what you're talking about here. Like, I'm thrilled to hear that it was the personal journey because I think that's the deeper intention behind my work. I would, I would much rather see you become more of your authentic self with all the armor and experience of the love from your mother that you never experienced before. Like, that's a lot more powerful. And here lies Betsy or here lies Jay. You know, he was a really great technology officer. Like, he really knew how to pick the right set systems for the organization that would scale up their products and service delivery. Like, you know, like, is that what you want to be known for? Is that your legacy?

Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, that's an important point too, because, you know, there's all these books and things about how to heal, but no one tells you what to do after you heal, right? If you define yourself by all your past traumas and tragedies and things like, that's who. That's your identity. So when you drop that now you're standing in this space like, well, who the hell am I now? What do I do with this? Right? So the reinvention comes in m. And you have really nothing to kind of pinpoint on because it's all new, you know.

Speaker B: So your first business was, first business that you wanted to try on was a technology business. And Then we discarded that. And then you went into spiritual transformation business, which it sounds like was not your final destination business. So talk to me about. Because now it came with a name change and a lot of, like, hanging out on the beach. I think you mentioned some gummies that came along with it, which, by the way, I moved. I was in Denver for a little while, so I know about the gummies.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, so, um, you know, I have this thing where, you know, uh, whenever I go through sort of a personal transformation and I'm kind of vibing on a new thing, I give that thing a new name.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Because it's no longer who I used to be. Right. So I just added like a H to J. And that confused a lot of people because they didn't know to call me Ja, Ya, hob, whatever. Right. But that was my. I was having a cocoon moment where I had to kind of go internal, uh, with the idea that at some point I would come out as a butterfly. But in that cocoon moment, I really needed to get in touch with my personal, emotional, spiritual self. And so my personality was Jah, and that's how I refer it, because it kept me mindful of that. And, you know, and I didn't know, uh, what was going to come out of the cocoon. And so when I got here to California, the first time I gone to the beach, I actually fell asleep on the beach. And I woke up and panic mode, because I fell asleep in public. Like, it was just something you don't do. Right. But no one was really bothering me. And I go, this is what peace is. And I discovered that. And, you know, it was just this wonderful thing that I didn't have to be anybody. Like, nobody knew me here. I didn't have to be anyone for anyone. Uh, and depending on who I talk to from my past, I'm either Jeffrey, because that's who they framed me as. Jay. New, uh, folks know me as Jaw. And so depending on who I'm talking to, I got these three different personalities that they've met and they've never crossed path before. So I could always tell when someone, you know. And so, uh. And always I thought it was. It was just kind of funny to me, but it just kind of helped me with my mindset and where I needed to stay focused. But, um, I had this interesting story where there was a seminar here and I had an opportunity to get a job with Northrop Grumman. And, um, they were both on the interview. And this. This conference was at the same Time on the same day. And so I sit down and I'm thinking about this, and I say a little prayer about it. I'm like, I need to know what to do. And I have always been a follower of my internal voice. And the voice said to me, you have always chosen money. You've never chosen yourself, and you've never chosen me. And I go, wow, right? Because I would have done the same thing I'd done in Virginia, the same thing I'd done in Baltimore. Chase after the money. And I know how that story ends. So instead, I go to the conference, and I get to the conference, and I notice I'm the only black guy in this conference. And the reason I, uh, normally don't focus on that, but I just noticed, well, then this other black guy comes in. He's about 5 5. He looks like he's wearing his big brother's suit. Like the suit was too big. Like, he literally stood out. And so voice goes, well, did he stand out?

Speaker B: He was 5 5. I don't know.

Speaker A: Did he stand out in his gigantic suit? Like, his suit? Right now, I'm the custom suit guy. So I notice this stuff, right? So the voice goes, go back and talk to him. So I go back and I introduce myself. And I said to him, you have a word for me. And he goes, let's talk after this meeting. We're in this hotel. So after this meeting, he and I are sitting at this table, uh, in the hotel lobby, surrounded by people. But for whatever reason, nobody came around us. He started asking me questions, and I started to get defensive. But, you know, just listen. Just listen. So he, uh, said, um, where are you living? I said, well, right now I'm living in my car because I'm trying to save some money, and I could get a room. But right now, I'm in San Diego. I got a cooler full of food. I go to the library, and I write. During the day, I go to the gym, workout, shower. Like, the only thing is, I'm just sleeping in my car. And I knew it was temporary, but this is just something that I needed to do to just kind of reduce the noise. And I still had some residue that, uh, I needed to get rid of. This man looked me in my eye, and I hadn't had someone look me out and say this to me since I was in the military. He looked me in the eye, and he said, you are fucked up. And I said, wow. I said, I know that. I just don't know how to stop. And when I. When I acknowledge that everything, my son's death, uh, uh, um, sexual abuse, like all these things that I had just stuffed down came out. Um, and it was this release. I hadn't cried since I was maybe 6 or 7 years old. And all of this stuff just came out of me uncontrollably. Right. And I didn't know I needed to hear that, but that's exactly what I needed to hear. A complete stranger said this to me in a hotel lobby. And it was the best thing that I ever heard in my life because it just freed me up. Like it was such a release to kind of do that. And you know, uh, as, uh, I'm a child in 60s, right? Boys don't cry. So I'm just eating all these things and not discussing it, not telling anybody about it. And I'm just walking through life and I found work to be the one place that I could hide out. I could put on a suit and tie and become this other personality because I had things to do. But when that day was over, I had to go home and I would find myself sitting in the office. Everybody's gone. Because I didn't want to leave the building.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And just having that experience. And I literally went and this is no lie. Within 30, within 15 days, I had two consulting jobs. Uh, I moved into this high rise building. Like right now I'm on the 35th floor. I can see the Pacific Ocean and the harbor. Like it turned just like that when I just kind of had the release. And so that was. I called it my John the Baptist moment. Well, obviously Jay was accomplished or J A H accomplished the goal. And so now I need to eat and have shelter. So I had to bring Jay back, you know, because he was a professional guy. He understands the business world and he can function in, in that world where the other was just kind of, you know, just trying to get it together and sitting on the beach and gummies and watching the waves and people and just kind of letting life kind of pass by. But it was a healing process for me.

Speaker B: So it sounds like the Jah business was really about like you. It really wasn't about like how I'm going to help other people. It was just the, the opportunity for you to kind of come home to yourself and release all of this and then the authentic business. Because sometimes like we pendulum swing over. Oh, it's two businesses and I'm going to be like a guru and it's like. But that's not my authentic self. Like, not all of us are born to be you Know Tony Robbins guru kind of people.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: But now it's like, now I'm coming back to home.

Speaker A: Yes, yes.

Speaker B: So, so tell me about this new business that you have. So it's not exactly the technology that you were imagining or your consulting organization, specifically on tech. What is the, what is this business is. And you mentioned, you kind of tease that you were trying to get an answer to a question for 30 years. I don't know, is reflecting that. Like, tell me a little bit about what this business is.

Speaker A: So this started my first job corporate, uh, job was with Crown Central Petroleum. And um, I kind of lied my way into it because the uh, the CIO, I was actually a personal trainer to the CIO and they had bought uh, these GL3 hundreds were the first business desktops by IBM. And he had about three hundred and twenty that he had to build. And he goes, my staff is too busy doing it. I said, well I could do it. And I had no idea what this was but. And so I was training him on Friday, Thursday, and he wanted me to come over on Monday, which gave me three days to kind of figure this out. So I go to B. Dalton bookstore. I'm really dating myself. I go to a B. Dalton bookstore and I don't know if they have

Speaker B: any book

Speaker A: Computer for Dummies booked. And I consume this thing the entire weekend. I show up to this guy's work on Monday and he has this gigantic room with all these boxed desktops. And so I take one out and lo and behold there are instructions in there on how to set these things up. Boy, I mean I hit the jacket. So I'm running these things and these, these dudes think I'm brilliant because I'm churning these things out. All I'm doing is following step by step and to get all this work done. Well, in the process of that, that was the time that I lost my son. And uh, he offered me a position in Virginia. So I go down to Virginia. Well, while they were doing that, uh, SAP had just launched and the leadership team had gone out to Germany and they came back with this thing that, you know, SAP is going to, is going to create. It's the one platform that this business can use. And everybody knows now that there's no one platform that can satisfy everybody in the business. But they thought this was the thing. And so they were asking questions if anyone had questions. And I said, well I was riding down the street and I noticed you have two gas stations a, uh, block apart and the prices are different. Why? And so the CEO asked, well, is anybody can answer his question? So one of the managers at one of the gas stations said, well, what we do, we look to see what our competitors are doing and we offer 1 to 2 cents less. I'm expecting some scientific algorithm thing that they would do and say, uh, you know, to create this. No, we just see what this guy's doing and we just dropped the price. I'm going, well, that's ridiculous. Well, Sid, my next question was, so if someone goes to get gas and he spends a dollar, how does some part of that dollar show up in my paycheck? What I was trying to understand was, what is my value to this company? Like, how did you arrive at my salary? How does what I do allow this person to fill his tank up with gas? And no one could tell me that. No one in accounting. And, and I thought they would have figured this out. And the reason why they hadn't, because all the businesses were operating even to this day, on the old, um, business model, that, uh, industrial age business model where you have all these business silos, the people in their silos only focused on the silos. No one was connected, uh, internally. Uh, no one was connected directly to the outcome that the customers had, uh, anything, you know, about the customers up in marketing? And I thought, so there is no value stream soup to nuts. And every business starts internally and they stay that way. We have the gas station, we're done. But they don't know what was the outcomes, the desired outcome of their customers. Did they have a good experience? You know, do you have any evangelists? And so that was the thing that brought, bothered me for 30 years. How do you get the business totally aligned in a systematic way so that everyone understood that at the end of the day, we are all customer service reps. We do it without particular roles, but we're all focused on this one individual, and I call him the mip, or most important person or primary value recipient. And we need to know exactly, everyone should know who, who this is, because now my job has purpose. When I go to work, I know exactly who I'm serving and how. And so I'm connected to this outcome, all of us in the organization. But the old business model does not operate through that. It operates on silos, management and focusing on tasks. And so I created this new business model, and I call it the Opportunity, uh, systems architecture. And it's based off of the fact that the thing that made America stand out was the fact that they did not suppress genius. They allowed genius to flow Now America still had its problems with people not liking other people, but overall it didn't suppress genius like other countries. And that's what elevated America above everyone else. So this architecture built in so that uh, it creates an opportunity system so that everyone can succeed by being aligned to the next guy. And so like when from the industrial age, you know, you had your widgets, this guy made this bolt and this guy made uh, the thing that's supposed to be around the bolt, but there's no handoff. And so the output, we may be needing 10, but somewhere along the line we're only getting five out. And, and we just accept that, you know, we accept the fact that projects overrun or not completed or what's delivered is not, was not what was asked for. We accept that, but we shouldn't because we just, we're just not connected together as an organization. We just have this one building and all these different um, business um, units who are not connected in a systematic way so that value can flow. And uh, instead of building the business from the inside out, where you have your C level team creating these business uh, uh, goals and things that doesn't get trickled down to the lower folks, but they just have these meetings. Well now we start from the outside in. We're servicing, uh, we want to make sure that the desired outcome of our customers, our most important person, that person is the one who repeat business tells his friends, you know, that we're looking for that individual. And so we tailor our business around this person and we start there. What do they need that creates your business, your business goals, your mission, all those other things.

Speaker B: So basically in a uh, nutshell is you're trying to help organizations become truly customer centric.

Speaker A: Yes. Through alignment, through systematic alignment. Yes.

Speaker B: So what's so interesting. So there's so many thoughts that I have into it because like, that's a lot of like what I do in brand messaging and positioning is like making it a client centric business. But when I'm hearing you talk about it, it's like you had business idea number one that we tried on back in 2020, which was about you doing consulting on technology. Then we tried on business number two, which was about how to help the business talk to IT and it talk to the business and how to bring that alignment between it and the business. And then we went down the transformational coaching kind of, you know, place that, you know, then like Jay Kyle, you know, our JH was sitting on the beach, um, you know, with his gummies. And now we're Coming back to the business, number two, but in a. In a much more elevated perspective. You know, like, it's not just about getting technology and the business to talk to one another. It's strategic. Aligning the business around the customer, which I think was the underlying thing, which probably has something to do with even, like, your spiritual journey of, like, how everything connects, like, looking at things in the world in a more systemic way, bringing that mindset in. And you might not have ever seen it until you kind of, like, went into absolutely, you know, into the other business, and now it makes sense. It's like, this is our. Like, it's coming back to purpose, like, the organization's purpose. I always feel this. I feel the same way, like, with the brand positioning is. I feel like the. The purpose is your clients. Like, we. We try to make our purpose like some idea or an expertise, and it's like, no, but our purpose is our clients, like, in their journey. Transformation. What we sell is not our. Ourselves. We are selling their transformation. Transformation. Like, that is what it's all about. And I feel like you're just doing this on a bigger level, you know, with an organization. It's like, how do you get really clear on who you help, uh, you know, and why they want to work with you and what the value is to them? And now how do we get all the pieces of the organization to align around that? It's not even aligning to each other. It's like the center is the. The customer. All these pieces align to the customer. And by virtue of that, they align with one another.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: I kind of see it like a wagon wheel. Like, I'm visualizing what you're doing as a wagon wheel. Here's the customer, here's all the spokes, here's all the different departments that they all connect this way, but. And they all connect through the middle.

Speaker A: Correct. So, like, right now, I consult with veterans, uh, affairs, and, um, um, I'm helping them implement this platform ServiceNow. They've been at this for, like, eight years. Right. And the entire focus of the IT shop is to implement this thing, but it's not connected to the veteran. They say we're here to service the veteran, but there's no one who can tell you how this system helps serve that. And I see it, and I've been seeing it for my entire career, and I just couldn't put it together in a way, because the one thing. So I call these value leaks, where there's a miss. I call it a value leak. Because in your entire Value stream, your leaks, they don't show up on the bottom line. Right. You see your budget and all these, but it is costing you in time. Your, your, your employees are disengaged. Uh, projects don't work. We see that, but we don't connect that to the revenue because on the outside it looks like everything's working, but it's not. It's almost like if you have, if you're getting water out of your faucet and it's running slow, sure, you get your water, but there's a leak in your house somewhere and it's going to cost you eventually. And so I had to take that, the value leaks, and create this math product project so they can actually calculate how much these value leaks are actually costing them. And it starts at even hiring when, um, you know, when you're looking for new employees because you create some job role, but it's never tied to what actually is the value that this person is going to be providing. How, uh, do you articulate that into your job role? Like you're asking all of my history, what did I do in school? What did I do for this guy last year? But you're not asking me what can I provide for you today? That's always missing from the interview process.

Speaker B: Yeah, like, what's the return on investment? Like if I'm here, what, what value am I supposed to put into the business that's more significant than what you're paying me?

Speaker A: Right. And ah, no, hiring manager, generally they don't tell you, well, what does success look like in 90 days for me? And you ask that question is like, but no one's ever asked me that question. And so I created a scoring process and because I find that hiring is very important. So there's a way you can score these things. Uh, I looked at performance management, which is another history lesson. You know, your performance managing me from three months ago when something showed up, which may not even be a problem now, but I thought, well, every baseball player at the end of the game knows exactly how they performed. Why do we not do that? In terms of business, I should know what my tasks and things are that day and I should know whether I was successful at completing those. I can dashboard this thing if my manager wants to see it, if the CEO wants to see it, it should all be available. So you can see how I'm actually performing based on the value that I'm supposed to provide as opposed to looking at it three months later. Then it's just your opinion.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, you're not focused on that. You give me an opinion.

Speaker B: What's the difference between a value leak and just an inefficient process? Like so how would you define the difference?

Speaker A: It's, there's really no difference. It's just that this uh, is actually a new category in uh, architecture design and I didn't want to cross reference uh, similar terms. So processes are a leak, but also uh, handoffs one. So the basic function of life, more like is input, process and output. So I go through that process and through that and I use this with troubleshooting. I understand that between these three uh, uh, parts of this uh, uh, this process, I can tell you if my in, if my input is good, but my process is not, then I have a value link between input and process. How do I.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And so it just kind of simplifies those things. And so the process could be working, but you may have people who are in the wrong position to fulfill that. So the process could actually be perfect is just not being implemented well or hasn't been articulated well to the people that are coming in. And so with the value leak kind of bears that out and it'll tell you where you're actually experiencing your loss.

Speaker B: So it's a little bit more of, instead of like, oh, how do we optimize this process? It's more on um, how do we root cause analysis, what's causing the leak and plug up the leaks so that we don't waste money on the wrong thing.

Speaker A: And that's what they're hiring the big consulting firms to come in and look at their processes. Right. Is the, the you know, your Andersons, they always come in and look at your processes, go well maybe you can tweak this. But the underlying problem is misalignment. That's the underlying problem.

Speaker B: So you become uh, a backdoor OD consultant because that's what organization development consultants do. And organization development consultants, our whole mission is about alignment. You know, it's like how do we get like the business, you know, the, the business strategy and the organization strategy and the people strategy to all align and support and reinforce one another and how to deal with the handoffs and all that kind of stuff. So it sounds like you, you backdoored into, you backdoored into my old, my old role of what I used to do as an OD consultant. Which is what it's interesting like how all of this kind of comes together.

Speaker A: Yeah. As I'm saying, I don't believe in coincidences man. So you know, we had to Bear this out. And, uh, you know, you just kind of was the spark that had me thinking about this because I couldn't articulate it to a degree where I can go, well, I knew the problem existed. And I work with chief operating officers who are responsible for operations. They know it's there. It just has not been articulated in a way. And they're spending a ton of money on these big consultant firms, and they'll come in and move the needle, but we'll tend to drift back because they really didn't address the underlying issues.

Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like there's, uh, in your messaging, like, there could be a tightening up of like, you know, so, you know, when organizations are. Are trying to, like, I think we could add in that part around, like, okay, so I help operations executives who are trying. Maybe we need to get more clarity on the goal.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: You know, and what they may not realize is, you know, like, maybe like the. The problem underneath it. It's like if you were going to put the brand messaging framework together, it's like, it's for whoever your ideal client is who wants X but struggled with Y and may not realize, like, X is the issue. And so, like, what you have in here is they may not realize the issue is that they're. They're different parts of their organization are not aligned to the customer. That's at this level. I think if you round it out and just add a little bit more, like you're solving it with like, your messaging is like the slight solution is the strategic alignment. But I would just say, like, in terms of tightening up, it's like four operations executives who want, you know, whatever they want and then. But struggle with from their perspective, then you can add in this other little piece that you're seeing, which is that they may not realize that they are losing value because they are not organized around the customer. Like, that's your big idea, is the organizations that win are the ones that are strategically aligned around the customer and, you know, all roads, you know, rise and fall on the customer. Like, that's your big idea. I think just from a messaging standpoint, because then you could be more clear on, uh, like, well, from their perspective, what do they want that they don't realize that this is the problem the way.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense.

Speaker A: It does. See, I've learned to always show up with meetings with you with a pen because you always dripping nuggets, man.

Speaker B: We're gonna. We're gonna do an impromptu brand. Brand messaging, um, positioning conversations Drop. So, um, so let's tease this one out. Let's do it. It's like, you know, we've done on our coaching before. Let's drop in on air coaching. So who is the ideal client? Is it operations? Operations executives?

Speaker A: Chief operating officers? Yes.

Speaker B: Okay, so coos, what do they want from their perspective? They look like, what's their goal? Their defined goal? Like, where are they trying to take their business? Are they trying to scale it up to the next level? Or like, where, where are they going? If they were going to say, I'm going on a hero's journey, that's my destination, what would you say is the destination that they're going on?

Speaker A: The first one would be a consistency in deliverables or performance.

Speaker B: And so, like, but if they had that, if they. So that might be the struggle. That might be the problem is they have inconsistency. If that problem was solved, what would they be able to create or achieve?

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Scale. Scale and quicker, uh, delivery.

Speaker B: Okay, so There are, uh, COOs who want scale and quicker delivery, but are struggling with inconsistencies in their performance. And what they don't realize that they're dealing with is that, that the inconsistencies are caused by lack of alignment. Strategic alignment to the customer. That's your context for your help. That's the strategic frame for who you're trying. Like, that's what. And so then the value, what you're bringing to the table. So you're all about the value. So the value, what you're bringing to the table is you're going to help their a bit. Like it's around the goal. So you're going to help them get to the scale faster. You know, like they're going to be able to scale up faster, you know, with less, you know, false starts and hiccups. Like, that's the value. By helping them more quickly flip around the inconsistent performance to the consistent performance by, you know, you're, you're consulting and, uh, coaching to help them strategically align the organization. So that's where it's like you kind of take the strategic frame and then you do the flip. But that's where you're like, those are the pieces you need to pay attention to because the value in your value proposition. So why would they invest money in you? Which is something that's important, is what are they spending on solving this problem without you? Like, what's, what's the lack of scale? Like there are hiccups in the scale or the inconsistencies. You can Help them solve it faster, you know, and do something different. Like by aligning to the business, not only do they flip the inconsistencies to consistencies in the performance around and scale faster, but they're going to actually create more thrilling, you know, raving customers. You know, customers who are more excited grow their customer base and really set themselves up for more exponential growth rather than just scale. You know, that could be your value proposition is, you know, why settle for, you know, why, why, why settle for scale when you can exponentially grow your business? Like that's where you're going to come in. Does that make sense?

Speaker A: Absolutely. It does. Yes, it does.

Speaker B: I, uh, Like, I would force you to do a what I do script, you know, like right now, but that would be like asking you to go back in time, like five years, you know, and I think that would be asking a lot to, you know, to make you, like, now practice this for me, you know, dense for me, Jay Dense, you know, practice your what I do script for me. I think that would be a lot, but that would be a next step is like, I would play around with, you know, like, really nail that, that positioning, you know, for who, um, and what they want and what's in their way and what they don't realize it's in their way because that's what you're bringing out, uh, is your idea. Then talk about what you do. And you're really a, you know, a strategic alignment strategist or something, or something along those lines. And what you do is you provide, like, the consulting or coaching to help them flip the inconsistency, to consistency around by helping them organize their business around the customer so that they not only scale their business to the next level, but they also do so in a way where they transform their customers into raving fans who will, um, propel them to even exponential growth or something like that.

Speaker A: Yes. And I created this process to become a standard so that there would be licensing, um, training certifications where I can actually teach people how to go into an organization and do this. Uh, your chief operating officers, they don't have standards on how to align organizations. So it's kind of, let's get these people and do these things. But, um, not to mention the fact this would actually. Because I can only be in one or two places at a time. Like, I can't. I couldn't scale if I was just doing this as a consultant. But, uh, providing this as a standard, an organizational standard, then I can license and certify and train folks to kind of go out and deliver this process.

Speaker B: That's amazing. So it's so interesting because it's not, it's. It's. It's definitely a few clicks away from what we talked about in business B, not business A, and it was not business C, not the. But business B. You know, it's, it's. It's not the same, but it's, it's not, it's. It's a few clicks away from it. But I don't know if you would have gotten there if you didn't. If you didn't do Jay on the. John. John, ah, on the beach. I don't know if you would have gotten there without John the beach with his gummies and falling asleep in public, you know.

Speaker A: And the funny thing is, since Jay's been back, he's had no gummies.

Speaker B: Yeah, gummies will mess you up, man. I know.

Speaker A: It takes me two days to recover. I'm like, I don't need this stuff, man.

Speaker B: I like, I, I have like a couple. Like, I did not like the gummies. Like, it's, you know, it's like it was. Did not work for me. I didn't miss them. They could stay in Denver, you know. I'm fine that it's not here in Orlando.

Speaker A: Yeah. But it, it's been.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sorry, Go ahead.

Speaker A: No, this has been. It's been a fascinating journey and to be able to kind of, uh, like your lessons has stuck with me along the way because I can always reflect back to conversations, listening to other people's aha. Moments, you know, and the way which you just kind of flow into messaging. Right. I mean, you like the ChatGPT before Chad GPT was there.

Speaker B: I thought you liked me. I don't like AI.

Speaker A: You just kind of spit it out. It comes out okay. Where people would use like ChatGPT for that, but it doesn't come with that human.

Speaker B: Uh, but just like, better than AI. Let's just like you are saying that

Speaker A: that's the thing where people think that this is going to replace humans. It cannot. Right? Because there are things, inflections and things that you just delivered. And I go, ah, ah. And I can write that stuff down. And uh, the information, just the way it's delivered and the inflections and things, man, it just, it matters. And if people think that this thing can replace people, they're going to be in for the world of hurt.

Speaker B: Well, you know, and AI really does suck with brand, uh, positioning. I've had some clients like, say, hey, I really worked on this stuff. And it's like, here's what Chat came up with. And it's like, you're so chat. Like, here's Chat's positioning. It's like, you really good at helping people see around the corners, and that's your brand positioning. I'm like, how in the world is that brand positioning? Do I know who you help? Do I know what problems you solve? Do I know how you're different? Like, that is the dumbest brand positioning. It's like, that isn't even, like, a strength description. Like, that's a partial strengths description. Maybe around, like, the strategic theme on the strengths finder. But it's like. It's like, did you complete your thought? But then people take it and they run with it, and it's like, oh, yeah, that was really insightful. I'm like, no, it's not. It's not even a complete strength theme. It's not. It's a fragment.

Speaker A: If someone asks a similar question, they get the same answer.

Speaker B: I know, I know. And the. And then, like, Chat will tell you, or Claude will be like, you're the smartest thing since sliced bread. You know, you're so smart. And it's like, no, that was stupid. Like, you have no credibility. Don't. Like, I don't need you to. You know, I don't need this affirmation here. What a great question. What. How's. What's the weather in Lake Nona right now? Wow. What a great question. Yeah, that's. Wow. Thank you for the affirmation that I asked. Is this good a good time for me to go for a walk? Well, that's really good for you that you really want to go for a walk and you want to make it part of your life. It's like, oh, for crying out loud, just give me the fricking weather. Answer the stupid question.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, for repeated tasks, sure. If you need a button press, then you need to. Yeah, it does that well. But if there's anything that requires any humanity whatsoever and you think it can do that, man, you just, you know, I mean, you can hammer in a nail with a shoe, but yeah, that's true. A hammer does a better job. A human swinging a hammer. That's true for the job.

Speaker B: Or a human reading a book about computers for dummies and reading through the manuals when they first get there. It's like the. Still the human how to do that. Okay, so. So now you've been at this new business, you know, is there anything that you Would tell, like the younger Jay that we were working with back in 2020, you know, that like with the insight now, like, what encouragement would you give him? What would you tell them?

Speaker A: One to not panic. Um, you're not going to receive all that you need at one time. It's a process. But, um, walk your path, don't walk it with fear. Um, accept the information that you get and don't get so defensive. But the most important thing, if something hurts, express it. You don't have to express it in public, but if you need to cry, cry. You know, let it out, have the experience.

Speaker B: And it feels like that release is what got you to even that clarity. It was like holding into the emotions was blocking you and blocking your path.

Speaker A: And there have been plenty of people who told me, I just. The way they delivered the message though, you know, because people like to soft pedal. I don't want to hurt your feelings. Well, these are my feelings. You can't hurt them. I just take information in and I kind of process the way I want and my out. But, you know, no one had ever looked me in the eye, said that to me. You know, where I go, oh, you're absolutely right. I am.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: You know, and it happened at the right time because I wasn't defensive. I could hear it. I could hear the message then.

Speaker B: Well, and I think some of it is, is because of the environment that you put yourself in. Like, you separated yourself from your familiar environment. You were in this, in this liminal space anyway. So it kind of created this receptivity. Like, I feel like that was a big part. When I moved back to Orlando, I went on a sabbatical. Initially it was going to be a three month sabbatical, turned into a seven month sabbatical. But the hallmark of my, of my time is I did a, A week long silent retreat. Um, I put myself into it. I called it my what I call it my device free. My wait advice device free advice. Free advice free retreat. It was like I, like, I literally took like the com. The remotes to my tv, I put my phone, I put my computer, I put it in a room, turned everything off for a week. And um. And I feel like it was like in the silence, like, I got a lot of clarity on a ton of stuff that was like holding me back. Like, and, and then just like. And then I went through this whole, like, process, like on reclaiming. Like I was going for this walk and I was reading this book about like shadow, like what shadow work? I'm like what in the world does that mean? You know, like, in terms of the shadow? So I'm, like, going for a walk, and I'm like, oh, my shadow. Like, I'm looking like, I wonder what's in my shadow. I'm like, well, I just moved. And so I had this storage stuff. I said, a m. Bunch of stuff in my storage. I'm like, well, I'll look to see what's in here, you know? And I started going through all these old boxes of memories, and it's like, that's when I, like, I really got clarity on. Like, I. My brand positioning comes out of my years of consulting. I'm not a marketing person. It's like, I have all these years, and for the first time, I put my credentials on the wall around. You know what? Like, my consult. I changed the name of my podcast to Consulting Matters, because that is, like, my roots, you know? And I. I got reconnected to all these different parts of myself, and, you know, and it was like, all in the silence. And I think that there's something about when you are away from the other things that you can hear things that you might not have heard before, and then you can let them down because you don't have a choice. Like, well, now I see it. Like, what am I gonna do with this information? You know? Like, now I see it, am I gonna, like, keep the nail in my head or I'm gonna pull the nail out of my head? You know, like, which one? You know, keep it in and walk around and say, oh, it hurts, you know, or am I plucking it out? Like, I have to choose, because now I see I got a nail on my head, and that's what's bothering me. Does that make sense?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's perfect. That made perfect sense. I remember seeing your I'm, um, back message, and I didn't know the context of it, but I remember seeing your I'm back message.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm back with. It was like, three months turned into seven months, and it was the biggest business development, life investment I've ever made, but it was the most healing thing I've ever done. Like, I highly recommend that. And I. And I think that there's a reason why all the spiritual, uh, spiritual leaders and writers, like, they all are walking all the time. Like, Jesus walked everywhere, you know, like, he brought his followers. He's walking everywhere. And I think there is something about, like, journeying somewhere else. I wonder if you would have stayed in Virginia if you would have had the same experience. Like, if you didn't take. Because you had 33 days going across country, you know, you were in a new environment. And I wonder if that really just facilitated a lot of that.

Speaker A: The funny thing is, going back, um, I went back for my mom's birthday, and I went back to Baltimore, and I went back to Richmond, Virginia. And I didn't feel like I needed a place to make me feel at home. And so I was. I'm comfortable wherever I am, you know, but nothing beats palm trees and sand, man.

Speaker B: Absolutely. That's why I'm so glad to be back in Florida. Nothing. No water. The sand. You forgot about the water.

Speaker A: Yeah. When you said you're moving to Colorado, like, boy, that is drastic.

Speaker B: I did not realize. I did not realize. I did not realize. I didn't realize how much I did not like the snow. Like, it was like, oh, my God, it's May and you're still snowing. I'm like, seriously, you know, get on with the program. It's summer, you know, but here, you know, And I love the heat here. Like, I used to think that the humidity was a really bad thing, and now I look at it, it's like, oh, my heat gives me a hug, you know, Every time I go for a walk now, and I'm sweating all over the place, like, oh, you're so sweet. Florida, son. You love me. You give me hugs every single day, right?

Speaker A: I have my sun time, man, every day, uh, about four. Anywhere between four and five, I just go sit out by the Jacuzzi, man. Just sit there hoping no one thinks I'm a pervert, anything. But I just gotta sit there, fingers crossed, and I'll put my headphones. I'm like, I hope people don't think I'm just staring at them and stuff, right? I don't want to be that guy, but I'm just really enjoying the sunlight and the warmth of it.

Speaker B: That's so funny. Well, you and I, I think, could go on and on and on about, like, tons of stuff. We probably have to wrap up at some point. So how do people find out about your new business and your URL? What's their URL to your new business?

Speaker A: So it's opportunity systemsinsinsinsinstitute.com and, uh, all the frameworks are there. The explanation is how these things work. It's all there. Like, uh, I said, the goal is to become a business standard to replace the old Industrial revolution business model so that business can function more on alignment, uh, systematic alignment.

Speaker B: Can. Can I make one other Solicited, unsolicited recommendation search.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Also get jkyle howard.com and have that as a secondary, because that's a long URL.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: Okay, I have it.

Speaker A: I have it.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So, yeah, that's sort of my. Yes, I set up another one for the purpose of, uh, for the content and the strict.

Speaker B: For your. This business point. Have something easier to point to. I still would say, like, dick, pick a. Pick a path. Don't have two businesses out there. Um, you know, integrate yourself and have J. Kyle Howard point to it, because that's a long one and people don't always remember the, um, the longer URLs. Um. Okay, so is there anything else that you want to tell me about, you know, your journey into your authentic business ownership and how you've grown over the past five years? And I'm just not asking you the right questions.

Speaker A: I would just say thank you to you. Uh, love. Big love and hugs to you. I mean, it's just been, uh. I am so glad you joined me on his journey, man. I am really fortunate to have you join me on this journey. You know, sometimes in life you get stuff that you either don't think you deserve or he wasn't expecting, and it just comes out in such a beautiful way, you know, And I think, you know, the. The best flowers are grown in manure. So, you know, I don't even know what the hell that means, but it's just, this has been a fantastic journey, and, you know, just to be able to look back and, you know, I read everything you put out there. I may not comment, so I almost feel like a stalker, but I'm out there.

Speaker B: Oh, you're that guy. You said you didn't want to be that guy, but, you know, I guess I am.

Speaker A: They peep around the tree going, hey, Betsy, how you doing? Yeah, you know, there's always something there, and I can find something for me, and I can use that. And this has just been so. So that's. That's it, man. Thank you for that.

Speaker B: You know, um, thank you so much for allowing me the privilege to be a part of this process, and thank you so much for being on the show and giving us the opportunity to kind of. To catch up, see where you're going with this. And I hope that, um. I hope that, uh, for those of you who are listening, you know, that you're inspired by. By just the whole journey. Like, there's a real inner journey, not just the external journey. And I think that that's what, you know, for me, that's what I think is unique about my brand positioning and messaging process is it's not about marketing, is really more about identity and bringing your authentic identity into the world, you know, so if that is something that you're interested in, love to work with you definitely check out my website, www.betsyjordan.com. and I think that the other part that, um, that I hope you're inspired by as you hear Jay's story, is that it's okay to evolve. Like, you know, that you don't have to have it, like, perfect right out of the gate. You could change, you could grow. You know, as long as you're kind of staying true to who you are and all those things are going to serve somewhere along the way. So I would just encourage you to. You just be inspired by that story. You get to evolve, you get to change. So, um, thank you all for listening. Um, if you enjoyed the show, please, you know, be sure to rate and review it. Hit subscribe. Um, I'm going to continue on my journey of having my Where Are They Now? Um, series, which I think is just so fascinating because you get to see, like, how people grow, grow over time. So until next time, thank you all so much for listening. Thank you so much, Jay, for being on the show.

Speaker A: Thanks, Betsy.