The Three Signals Every Message Sends

Welcome to Connecting to Admired Leadership, where twice a month we explore the behaviors and routines that make great leaders extraordinary. I'm Wes Bender, and I have the distinct pleasure of hosting some of our firm's partners, coaches, and clients to discuss leadership in ways you won't hear anywhere else. Let's dive into this episode and make people and situations better together. Jordan, I'll say it again as everybody's dropping in, you, you, you look wonderful. This morning. Thank you for joining us. I can't wait for everybody to get to meet you and hear from you this morning, for sure. I feel like I should have dressed up more once I saw you this morning. Well, you are in the admired leadership purple, Wes, so it's good to see you too. Thank you. I think those of you who have— so thanks everybody for joining us. We'll get started here in just a minute. I think we have those of you who've joined us often, I think we've made some guests, some has made the comment that I tend to wear the purple branding of our firm quite a bit. Purple was actually a color I loved to wear prior to even joining this firm. So it was like meant to be the whole time. All right, we'll go ahead and get started. Thanks so much everyone for joining either this morning, this afternoon, this evening, maybe it's, you're somewhere around the world. You're listening to this recording perhaps on a run or somewhere that you are. As we get started, I want to introduce our guest guest. She has— this is her first time on our webinar series, our Connecting 2 webinar series. So I'll introduce Jordan Kreshover. I'll keep this brief because frankly Jordan has been the most prepared and thoughtful guest pre-webinar that we've had to date by far. So any previous guests that we've had that happen to be listening to this, you got a lot of work to do when you come back next time. If you know anything about today's topic, you'll recognize that as a signal as well, which means, Wes, let's keep it brief because Jordan has some, has some things to share for sure. Jordan's a managing director at Admired Leadership in our firm. She spent nearly a decade advising senior leaders in the area of strategic communication, organizational change, leadership visibility. She works primarily in our strategic communications practice. Those of you who might be subscribers to our online playbook, you will be excited to hear we have a new communication module coming out. It's going to be released shortly. And so that communication piece and the work that Jordan and the team do there are phenomenal. Her clients have included some of the most recognizable companies in the world. She's going to start us off with a story. But first, Jordan, I want to ask you, Who are you and what's one way Alex or another AI tool has made you a better leader? Awesome. Well, Alex is amazing and has made me a better leader and a better advisor and a better coach. But who am I? So, Jordan Kreshover. I advise and coach senior leaders in all types of organizations to use communication to drive outcomes. So like Wes said, whether they're driving a change, whether they're launching a new strategy, whether they want to connect with their employees, more regularly, communication is a way to help get that done. And I partner with them to make sure that we're achieving their goals. How I use Alex, so very aligned to that, is again, if a leader has a goal, I use Alex a lot to help pressure test, is my advice landing right? When they send this message, what, what are people going to think? Where are they going to roll their eyes? Is this truly landing the way I think it is? And that's a great way to use the tool to make sure that you are giving the right context. That you're thinking about where people may have questions or where there may be concerns, and then you're able to adapt the message to make sure that it is getting across what you need it to. I love that, Jordan. Something practical right off the bat, which I, which I'm not surprised at with you. If you're not using any AI tool, but especially those who use Alex to prep Alex or that AI tool with how, you know, what kind of personality or persona you want it to take on in its response. That is certainly an ability you can do and offer those fresh perspectives to pressure test things. So, all right, so let's jump into our topic. What I always tell guests ahead of time is it's always great to start with a story that frames the discussion. And I didn't even have to tell Jordan that because she already said she's got a story. Well, I've listened to a few of these, so it's always great to hear my colleagues on it, but it's great to be here today. But yes, a simple story I think will help really paint the picture and what we're trying to get across today. And what I'll say is there's really two versions of this story, but they're all centered around the same four words. So version one, your leader passes you in the hall, they stop you and they say, come into my office. That's it. There's no context, no tone. They may even have a stern look on their face. Just come into my office. How do you feel? Right? You're probably feeling a little anxious. Maybe you start running through the last few weeks. What did I miss? What did I do wrong? Did someone share feedback about how I, uh, how I approached that one meeting? And you're feeling a little bit anxious, right? Version 2, same leader, same hall, same 4 words, but this time they're smiling. They say, "Come into my office." Maybe they add, "I want to talk to you about a project I want you to lead." Same ask, right? They want you to come into their office, but it's a completely different experience. And the question that we're all probably thinking about is what changed about those 4 words and how that leader showed up? Because what they were asking you to do is identical. But what changed is how that leader showed up and what the interaction said about how they see you. And that's really what we want to dig into today is every message you send, every email, every meeting, every hallway conversation is doing 3 things simultaneously, whether you intend to or not. And most leaders only think about one of them. And we want you to start thinking about all 3. That's awesome. I'm already thinking about the way in which I ask my children questions or better the way my wife of 24 years asks me questions, right? Hey, hey, I want to talk to you about something, right? When Wes, after this, how you ask them to clean their rooms or do the dishes is completely going to change. I hope. I hope. What's funny, this is a little bit of a sidetrack, but what's funny is when my wife asks me, I want to talk to you about something, I think, what did I do? And then at the same time, when I go to her and say, I want to talk to you about something, she thinks, what did you do? It's both, it's both and in my territory, in my house, but a little bit adjacent. So what you're talking about is same words, completely different experience. So dig us deeper. What's actually happening here? Why can the same message land so differently? I mean, it ultimately lands differently because communication is never just information transfer, and a lot of people use it solely for that. They think about it is, I have a message and I deliver it clearly, done. But the reality is that's not how it works. There's a foundational principle in communication research that I want to go back to, and it's communication is inherently strategic. Not in a manipulative sense, I don't want people to go there, but in a sense that every message is doing 3 things at once. It's advancing a task, it's signaling, it's projecting an identity, and it's signaling something about the relationship. It's always doing that, whether you're aware of it or not. And most of us move through our days as what researchers like to call expressive or conventional communicators. We're going back into the literature for a second. So expressive communicators react. They say what they feel in the moment. There's authenticity there, but there's a lot of accidental signaling too. They say what they, they want people to do, and whether that's a frustration that leaks into an email, whether that's impatience that shows up in a meeting, But when you think about conventional communicators, they're far more focused on following a script. They know the norms and they stick to them. They follow the rules. They strive to make people feel comfortable. Again, most leaders are probably somewhere in the expressive or conventional communication. But as we think about what goes beyond that, then there's strategic communicators. And strategic communication— communicators design. They're actually taking a step back and they're thinking about an important question. What am I actually trying to accomplish here? We always like to say, and maybe a little bit of an interesting example is a strategic communicator can turn a birthday party into a funeral and a funeral into a birthday party. And like, why can they do that? It's because they're aware of the situation and they know how to use communication to drive outcomes. So if you think about it, the leaders who use who think about strategic communication and are thinking about all 3 signals, they're the ones who build trust. They're the ones who build influence. They're the ones who build followership because they're operating at a different lens and they're using communication differently. They're thinking about how they show up. They're thinking about what the message is saying about the relationship. And what's really important is they're thinking about those things all the time. They're not opting out of those signals. They're being intentional and not accidental about them. So when I tell my redheaded 13-year-old girl to clean her room and she turns to me, she says, "I don't think you've thought through this question as much as you need to." I'll know she's listened to this webinar for sure. So you said a lot right there, Jordan, which is, which is incredible. I want to kind of direct everybody's attention just for a second. We do use the chat box during this, and we've already got some folks just reinforcing some of the things. That are saying, and that's one of the advantages of attending these lives. And of course, Alex is in there to stimulate some of that conversation. Certainly happy to take questions along the way too. And we've got some people already taking some, some pretty powerful notes. What I want you to do, Jordan, is I want you to say those 3 signals one more time. It was even in the title of this webinar, but those 3 signals are so important. And then I remember you mentioning to me one time that leaders are pretty good at one. Of those. Is there one that stands out above the rest that leaders should really look at leaning into the other two? So kind of mention those one more time and then dig in a little bit on which ones are best. At the same time, as you were walking me through this content, which some of it was new to me, I was reminded of a Field Note a while back that talks about how others are interpreting what you say and do. So I've prepped Sophie with that and she's dropping that in the chat box too. Just another add value piece in regards to Field Notes. But go back to those 3 signals. Tell us one more time and lean into the one that's typically best for folks. Yeah, happy to. And I love that Field Note. Thanks for sharing it, Sophie. So it's again, it's task, identity, relationship. So task is where almost everyone lives and it makes sense, right? Task is the most visible. It's the most measurable. It's the most immediate. What do I need them to do? And in order to do that, what do they need to know and believe? Leaders plan for this. They're thinking about it. I have something I need to get done and I need to communicate so that happens. But I think when we think about the next layer, it's identity, because every message is also projecting who am I, how do I want to be seen? And there's lots of different ways you could be seen, right? Do you want to be seen as bold? Do you want to be seen as an expert? Do you want to be seen as approachable, collaborative, stern? I think the important thing to call out there is there's not a wrong way in which you want to be seen, but it really— what you should know and understand about that is over time, the accumulation of those signals is what shapes how people experience how you are as a leader. So again, as long as you're aware of it and you know the consequences of that over time. So if I'm constantly being seen as stern, then I'm projecting that I'm serious, right? I may not have a lot of personality. I may be very highly focused on, on the task and what I need people to do. If I want to be seen as more approachable, there's things that I need to do in that conversation, in that email, in that meeting that makes it so that people see me as more approachable. And then lastly, there's that relationship signal. And this is what we believe leaders leave entirely up to chance more often than not. Again, every message that you're sending says something about how you see the other person. Do you see that person as a peer? Do you see that person as a problem that you're managing? Do you see that person as someone that's invested in, in you? Do I see that person as a colleague, as a resource? So again, everything is sending a message around how do you see the other person and what do you want to say about the relationship. So another simple way to think about it is, again, like, how do you open a meeting? So really simple, and a lot of leaders aren't thinking about this, is a lot of times you just open the meeting with, let's go through the agenda, who has it? That's highly task-focused. Let's move through the agenda, let's make sure we get done what we need to do. But an identity signal could say, you know, hey, because of that, I value efficiency over people and connection. And the relationship signal could say, if you're just focused on the agenda, getting through it, that you're here to execute. But contrast that with a leader who takes 60 seconds at the start of that meeting to open it up and recognize a colleague who went above and beyond on a project. That's the same agenda, it's the same meeting, But that 60 seconds is showing that that leader is highly strategic in how they think about how do they show up and what do they want to say about the relationship that they have with the team on the line. Jordan, every once in a while on these, I find myself losing my train of thought because I'm so— gaining so much out of what's being said. That's exactly what happened. So I'm glad I've got a little run of show to go after right here. But What you said in bringing utility and practicality to the idea of not necessarily pivoting what I'm saying, but ensuring that the signal I'm coming across with what I'm saying is the signal I need to communicate right now. I mean, just that. And again, it may not pivot what you do, but you do need to be intentional about those signals that communicate to move things forward. What I would love to know is, is there an example you might have of what it looks like when a leader loses control of those signals? I don't know that I always ask that question. You know, we always dig into what's the positive nature of doing this, but what happens when a, when a leader loses control? Do we have some case studies or some clients and they don't even realize that they've lost control of these signals? Anything come to mind? When things go wrong because they do. That's right. Yeah. I have a great example and I'm going to take you back over 10, possibly 15 years. I'm not doing the math correctly in my head right now. But 2008, the auto CEOs, you probably remember this, right? The CEOs of GM, Ford, of Chrysler, they fly to Washington to testify before Congress. And ask for a government bailout. Yeah, lots they needed to get done in that conversation. What happened was each one of them flew on a separate private jet to those meetings. Mm-hmm. Well, you can think about it. The task matches was, was quite clear. They were prepared. They needed the funding. They talked about why they needed— they talked about the plan of how they were going to get out of it. They were focused on the task signal, but what they missed was the identity and the relationship signal. Because flying on a private jet when you're asking to be bailed out and when, you know, your consumers and the country was in a little bit of turmoil due to the economy collapse, the identity signal actually said is they didn't understand the gravity of the moment. They were disconnected from reality. And the relationship signal there actually said, we're not like you and we're not really asking for your help. We're expecting your help. But what I, what I'd like to say is I don't think those leaders intended those signals. I'm sure if you asked them beforehand, they said that the jets were irrelevant. Like, that's just how we travel. That's how we do things. We're CEOs. That's how we get across the world when we need to. But I think the key thing there is the attention— the intention is actually beside the point. The signals landed anyways, and it nearly derailed the entire effort. I think I was Googling this earlier, just thinking through my example. First thing I said, looked up was CEOs, Congress bailout. First headline was 3 CEOs fly on private jets to meet with Congress. Right. It landed them in the headlines and it wasn't good. But that's what happens when you only think about the task signal. The other 2 aren't disappearing. They're just going unmanaged. And that's what we want real people to really focus on is how are you thinking and being intentional about the other 2? So when you are sending messages, when you are meeting with people, you're helping them, you're showing up in a way that's helping you achieve your goals, but you're also thinking about the relationship in a way that is going to help you be seen and approached in a way that makes sense. Yeah. And people eat up bad signals. Like, it's a reason that that headline got the top of the news when you Googled it is because for whatever reason, If I'm not one of those leaders, I almost love human nature to see them fail. And I think we forget that sometimes as leaders, we forget if we're not intentional about these signals, people love and they lean in when the signals are communicating something else than we're actually trying to communicate. I mean, this principle is so, so interesting as it relates to just our, our human nature as a whole. We get a lot of questions. So we've talked a lot about the message itself and what the message communicates. I've seen you, some of our other managing directors within our strategic communications practice, really talk about frames in regards to the message, the medium, and then the recipients, obviously, and what those cadence, you know, can look like at times. We got a lot, we always get a lot of questions in regards to, well, what does this look like remotely? Right. What, so what I'd love for you to kind of pivot from while we still have some time left is we've talked a lot about the message and what the message signals. Does the channel matter or the medium itself? Uh, should it have been an email, a town hall, one-on-one? How do you and others coach and advise as it relates to if there's a message you want to get across, the signals that you're given, how much does the channel or medium play into that? It, it matters enormously. And one of the things we're always coaching leaders on is, are you thinking through the channel that you are using as much as you are thinking about the message you're sending? Because different channels suppress different signals. Email is very efficient for task. It's clear, it's documented, it's fast, but it strips out the relationship signal entirely. There's no tone, there's no eye contact, there's no presence. A lot of people like to say you can't, you can't pick up on tone through email, but whether you use that exclamation point or not, whether you have a dot, dot, dot, whether you have a question mark, all of that is sending a message, but you're asking the leader to fill in everything the channel can't carry. And oftentimes, again, because, because they can't pick up on your tone, they can't see if you're smiling, they can't see if you're leaning into the conversation and actually looking them in the eye, they're, they're often filling it with the worst possible interpretation of what you truly mean. That's why a lot of times we say, hey, if you're going back and forth on email too many times, it's probably time to pick up the phone and give them a call so you can ask the question live, but also so that they can gain the context of how you're approaching it, how you're thinking about it. But again, if to use another example is if a team member sends a group email that has a big idea in it and the leader just responds, let's discuss offline. Task signal, fine, right? We're going to address it. We're going to talk about it. But the identity signal is really saying that that leader is someone who manages things efficiently, right? They're just trying to get things done. But the relationship signal is actually saying that this idea isn't worth engaging about in front of the group, and that, that will probably hurt the sender of the email who put a lot of thought into what they wanted to accomplish. So again, it's that wasn't the intent of them saying let's discuss offline. They're just trying to be efficient. They're just trying to create more conversation about it. But the channel in which they said that, it didn't deliver the way that they thought it to. So, I mean, again, think about it is if you are going to use email, be highly attuned to what you're saying in terms of your identity and task through it. So you may say instead of let's discuss offline, you may say this is, this is an idea worth exploring. Let's make sure we talk about it in our next one-on-one. That is a very different message being sent, but again, it's achieving the same task and saying that we want to talk about this, we're going to, this just isn't the place that we're going to make sure that happens. You know, we hear this— go ahead, were you gonna say— I was just gonna say about what you were saying. I was just gonna say that the strategic communicator, going back to what I was saying earlier around the expressive, the conventional, the strategic communicator— the strategic communicator is also asking themselves not only, again, what do I need people to do, what do they need to know, understand, and believe, how do I want to be seen, and what do I want to say about the relationship— the strategic communicator is also asking What, what, what, what medium do I need to use to carry this message in a way that is actually going to carry it in the way I intended? That's so good. So we— there's some great chatter in the chat box and some resources that Alex is dropping into. A couple of things I want to just mention there and then we'll move right along. But I love what— I love what Judy— I'm even going to call this one out. When things go wrong with a leader, from my perspective, I would just totally ignore anything they're addressing. Or try to explain. I mean, I think that really brings weight to what we're talking about. And the other thing that I want to pull out of what you said, Jordan, that I think was so important is this idea that if we allow our— we talk about this a lot and it's a common thread that comes through a lot of these webinars— if we allow our task list to drive our communication, we're missing huge opportunity to also build relationship and trust and credibility and all those kind of things. And so these signals really afford us the opportunity to, yes, drive work forward, yet at the same time, the signals, the mediums that we choose allow us to lift up and raise and deepen that level of trust and relationship and credibility and competence and all those things too. And Alex is so good. Post in the chat. We actually have a great field note on this. The media might be the problem. Yes, that's the issue, right? Is as you're thinking through your task identity relationship, you may not be thinking through the medium that you need to actually get across those signals that you're trying to send. Yeah, that's good. So one more note, I did prep Sophie with our FieldNote archives. So if you have access to Alex, that's obviously the place to go in regards to having conversation and getting resources and those kind of things. That is spreading like wildfire right now. If you don't have access to Alex, you want to check out all of our field notes that go out. You can subscribe to those, number one, but people also don't know you can, you can search those archives of those field notes. So Alex is doing that readily, but you can go in and list all kinds of topics and put things in. So before we run out of time, I really want to even bring more practicality, more utility, almost make this a little more concrete. Is there a tough conversation that you can walk us through? Maybe a time when somebody, when you have to deliver the difficult feedback, the bad news, and show us what it might look like to actually get all 3 signals correct. So give us an example of that. Yeah, I mean, as a leader, you're always delivering tough messages, right? Not something we can get out of, but can you plan for them and be able to deliver them in a way that is going to keep your teammates engaged and on the path that they need to be. So one that I just coached a client on last week was they had to tell a direct report that they weren't going to get the promotion that they thought they were. And that's a really hard conversation that a lot of leaders need to have all the time. I think just to take a step back, the task version of that would have said, I need to, I need to be straight with you. You're not ready for the promotion yet. Here's what I need you to change. It's clear, it's honest, it's accurate. And, but for the person actually receiving that message, that direct report, it lands like a door closing. It hurts. But let's take another look at that conversation. And now it's designed for all 3 signals. Now we're incorporating again the identity of how I wanna be seen as a leader throughout it. And we're incorporating the relationship. What do I wanna say about my relationship with this person that has been working with me for quite a while? So again, you're going to start this differently and you're going to talk about how they handled that tough project. You've seen growth in how their, their presence and how they're showing up in senior leadership meetings. But then you're going to shift and say, I need to have a hard conversation with you, though. I need to tell you something that, that may not land right, but I'm telling you this because I care about you and I want to see you continue to grow. And I don't want you to get demotivated by it. Right. And that what that is saying is I'm having this conversation with you as your leader. As your manager, because— and I'm sharing it in a way that, that sends a message that I care about you, that you matter to me, that I want to see you continue to grow. It's not because HR made me do it. It's not because it was the annual performance time where I have to talk about, you know, your review and what was in it. It's because I actually want to see you get there. And that's coming across in the, in the conversation. But again, I keep saying is like the task is the same. We're telling them they didn't get the promotion that they thought they did, and we're telling them what they need to work on. But how I'm showing up as a leader and my identity, I'm coming off as a caring leader who wants to see you continue to succeed. And in the relationship is I'm saying that I'm going to continue to be here by your side and invested in you and think about how that different— how differently that will land for someone who needs to hear that message on the other side. That's so good. All right. I want you to have the last 2 or 3 minutes here. And if we go a little over, that's okay too, because clearly from the chat box, People are really enjoying the— Yeah, people asking questions. —conversation. No questions. I think everybody's just taking notes at this point. But what I would love for you to do kind of at the end, Jordan, is— and you actually came up with this question and sent it to me— and as a close, it basically says, and I'm going to read it verbatim, "What does the intentional leader ask themselves that the accidental one doesn't?" And I think that is a really nice close to what we do. Kind of prepare your thoughts there. We do have some cool things. So Sophie, if you want to drop in the chat box our upcoming Get to Know You events. So we've got more of these webinars, of course, every month. We're also going to be live. I'm going to be on location in Miami and Phoenix coming up. Those are complimentary events in person. Would love to see you in person if you're in and around there. If you know somebody in that area, please send it to them. We love getting out and meeting folks that are being a part of these. And then also we have a really cool article that just came out about Alex in Entrepreneur piece there. So she's going to drop that in. I think it's a real good piece there. But so Jordan, close us up. Okay. What can we take practically? What does the intentional leader ask themselves that the accidental one does not? Yeah. So every leader should always be asking them, what do I need them to know, believe, do? Like, do not get that out of your frame. That is task. It's very important to make sure that your message lands clearly. And you're actually producing the outcomes that you need. But the intentional leader is taking it a step further. And as I said, they're thinking about the task, the relationship, and the identity. So they're asking themselves, how do I want to show up in this, in this interaction? How do I want to be seen? And what do I want this message, this conversation, this email to say about who I am as a leader? They're thinking about the identity. At the same time, the message is also thinking about the relationship. What do I want this message to say about how I see this person? Whether again, that's an email, how do I want to be seen when I say we need to talk about it offline? Whether that's the hallway conversation, how do I want— what do I want this person to think about what I feel about them? Am I treating them like a fully formed adult or am I treating them like someone I need to manage? But again, that's, that's what you need to be asking yourself. Go beyond what do I need them to do and what context do they need to be able to do that well? And be thinking about how do you want to be seen as a leader? And again, that's, that's your goal. Do you want to be seen as approachable, as, as, as confident, as stern? Okay, whatever that is, just make sure that your message is landing that. And then what do I want to— what do I want to say about the relationship and how I feel about this person? If you take beyond just the task and focus on those two, your messages are going to land better, and you're going to make sure that you're getting across what you need to and that people feel good and want to follow you as those those happen. Jordan, you are an absolute rock star. This has been really, really rich and rewarding, and the chat box is a testament to that. As I kind of close this up, I'd love to ask you if you're willing, we got some things coming in. Would you drop your email address in the chat box for those? The— I am always blown away in regards to the clear, concise, compelling, courageous work that you and the others of our strategic communications practice do on a regular basis. And so we may have some folks leading off of this because you introduced some real practical frameworks and that kind of stuff who may want to have some follow-up conversations. Of course, we're always looking for folks that to work with and develop some new scopes of work with and new clients all the time. But for sure, I think it'd be great if you drop that in the chat box. With that, we'll leave this webinar open here for another 5 minutes or so. There's lots of great links in our chat box today, so we want everybody to have an opportunity to grab at those if you want to. Uh, appreciate you being here, those who are, uh, joining us live, and we're gonna look forward to seeing you in the next one. Jordan, thank you so much for all that you do for our clients, uh, within our firm, uh, both the fun and, uh, just very strategic nature that you bring to all of our work. Appreciate you being here today. Anytime. Angela Manning, you are already changed. I love that. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks everybody. We'll leave the chat box open for a bit and we'll see you in the next one. Cheers. Bye.