The 5-3-1 Rule and Social Fitness

Speaker A: Welcome to Connecting to Admired Leadership, where twice a month we explore the behaviors and routines that make great leaders extraordinary. I'm, um, Wes Bender, and I have the distinct pleasure of hosting some of our firm's partners, coaches, and clients to discuss leadership in ways you won't hear anywhere else. Let's dive into this episode and make people and situations better together. All right, Good afternoon, uh, perhaps good evening, perhaps good morning, depending on where you are logging in, uh, around the world. Uh, today's session of Connecting to Admired Leadership. I want to say that most leaders. So we obviously work with a lot of leaders. Most leaders invest an enormous amount of energy. Uh, as you look at the spectrum of professional development, of leadership training that takes place, it typically centers around the areas of technical skills for their job, their industry, uh, perhaps their strategic thinking, perhaps their communication. Uh, but there's one area of leadership development that is almost universally under invested. And, uh, it may be the single strongest predictor of both performance and happiness. Uh, and that's what we're talking about today. So I'm very excited about that. Uh, let me introduce my guest. Bring her in. Um, Mallory. Mallory, if you would just kick us off. Who are you and. And what's one way you're utilizing Alex or any other AI tool, uh, to make you a better leader? Who are you and what. How are you utilizing Alex or any other AI tool right now?

Speaker B: Hi, everyone. I'm Mallory Stacy. I'm a managing director in our leadership practice at cra. Admired Leadership. And I. The best way to utilize Alex or any other AI bot that's not as good as Alex is really that challenging of thinking. So. So I, on a daily basis, will go in and say, you know, either post mortem, this is what I did. This is what I said. This is how I'm thinking about it. What should I do differently next time? Give me some feedback. How do you think I should have handled this? Or better yet, beforehand saying, this is what I'm thinking, please challenge my thinking. Give me three, four, five challenges or different options to make me think differently.

Speaker A: That's awesome. That's actually. So John and I presented this morning here at this education conference, and those are, uh, a couple of the exact things we encouraged educators to think about, especially as they're working with their boards, uh, and those kind of things, which is great.

Speaker B: So nothing interesting or insightful to the table. Appreciate it. Off the gate. Good start.

Speaker A: I'm glad you're reading between the lines so effectively, Mallory. Uh, all right, so I could tell you more about why this topic matters and already the research is compelling when it comes to, uh, relationships, investing in relationships. Um, the longest known study of adult development found that the quality of your relationships and is the single strongest predictor of health and happiness. Uh, by, by a Harvard study. Uh, that alone should get your attention. But I'll be completely honest, what actually makes me excited about today is Mallory. I love working with Mallory on projects, on the different pieces of work, every project, every engagement, every room she walks into. Mallory has a rare and natural gift for making people feel genuinely connected. Um, uh, some of you, and this is how I'm going to introduce this and then we'll get into our question. Uh, but when you talk about somebody to talk about relationships, um, you know how some people, your phone will ring and it's their name and you know exactly what that conversation is going to be like. Meaning that person only calls when they need something, or that person only calls when they have bad news, or that person only calls when they're, they're mad at you or something. I will say that when my phone rings and Mallory does just a fabulous job of actually making phone calls rather than emails or texts, sometimes when my phone rings and it says Mallory, I literally pick it up and think, I have no idea what this is. Because Mallory will call when she's got something exciting to share. She'll call when she has a question, she'll call with something small, she'll call with something large. And that in and of itself has been a really neat, um, piece, uh, behavioral piece that Mallory's done that I think has deepened our working relationship in some ways that she calls, uh, across the board. So again, Mallory is really, uh, very excited to have you and you're really uniquely positioned to speak to this topic for us of leadership. So let's start with the premise. Let's talk about what is social fitness? Why does it matter? Um, uh, why should leaders think about it as a discipline rather than just something that happens naturally? Why even spend, you know, what we have Left here is 23 minutes on this topic.

Speaker B: Sure. Um, it's interesting, Wes, because the idea of social fitness itself is not our cra. Admired leadership. It comes from Kisley Killam. So it's not innately ours. However, the study and practice of relationships is something that we are deep into always focusing on and why we know that relationships are such that indicator of happiness, success. And when we do those end of career interviews, that's what people are reflecting on. So what is social fitness? It's not about having relationships. It's about the quality of the relationships. And more so it's really debunking the idea that some people are just naturally good at relationships because that is such a limiting factor. And we walk into rooms, meetings, teams all the time where it's like, well, I'm just not very good at relationships. You know, I'm m an eye on the Myers Briggs or whatever. That's just not my thing. And the essence of admired leadership and the essence of this idea of social fitness and the discipline of it is that we know that it's more about how do I make sure that I am thinking about relationships as a discipline and as a practice that I am constantly fostering and conditioning, just like an athlete would do when it comes to their physical fitness.

Speaker A: All right, so in the chat box, those of you who are attending live, I want to put, I want you to let us know on a spectrum of 0 to 10. Uh, 0 to 10. So 10 is, I think, about the discipline of relationships to the degree as if I was a Olympic athlete honing my craft and my sport. Uh, zero is if there is any area that I need more help with, it's being more disciplined in the relationship. So on that spectrum of 0 to 10, uh, where would you land? I think that'll help us get a, get a good bearing of, um, of where we're at right now as we're

Speaker B: watching these come in too. I will say what's interesting is sometimes those who are really, really naturally good at relationships, where they can pick something up from our 30 minutes together is it's hard to then articulate to somebody else when you need to coach them or mentor them that they need to be good at relationships. It's harder to say what to do because if it's naturally something that you're skilled at, then it becomes a. I don't know, just do relationships. Um, and anyways, no matter what your number is, the idea of that discipline is key to success. Because, hey, if I have all the time in the world, I do this really great, great. What happens when the going gets tough? What happens in the environment that we're seeing right now where there's more pressures on efficiency, more pressures on do more with less than what you know. Do you still maintain the relationships?

Speaker A: Yeah. That's good.

Speaker B: I love Marta. It's all about relationships.

Speaker A: And, uh, just, ah, uh, just a piece there. Marta, if you've got any good comments to share, I see you were, you were at the top of that, uh, spectrum as you were dropping in, uh, the different Numbers. The, um, uh, just as a note, I see someone has their hand raised. We, uh, don't have the ability to bring you in, but if you have any questions, you can drop those in the chat box and we'll pick them up and bring them right into our conversation. So. All right, uh, first off, Mallory, why. Let's, let's just do one more thought on why this is important. What happens if a leader neglects this? What does that look like when a leader neglects this? And then we'll dive into what is the actual 531 rule.

Speaker B: And Wes, I think it's two sides, right? It's not just professional and their professional leadership, but also on the home personal front. I will say, uh, there's so many times that we're coaching a leader. I can think of several off the top of my head who may be on this call or not, um, who say, I love my job, I love what I do. If I could spend 80 hours a day doing my job, I honestly would. And there's something behind that that is wonderful. But if they're not fostering their relationships personally and the people that matter to them, then they feel some sort of resentment. So even though I love my work, I love what I do, you can still build this resentment. If we aren't holding ourselves discipline when work is busy, how am I still maintaining this? The second element is that professional side. So, uh, am I investing in the right relationships? Am I investing in the relationships? And if I'm not, then what happens? You're losing influence, you're hurting yourself when it comes to getting information from people. And ultimately probably see people on your team leaving and are thinking, why?

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Is that enough of a compelling response?

Speaker A: I'd say that's pretty solid.

Speaker B: So let's wake up everybody. We've, we have 20 minutes together to now figure out what to do with this.

Speaker A: So, um, so as a, as, as our firm is very, uh, attuned to high utility and practicality, uh, we have a field note called the 531 rule. And that's what we're talking about. So walk us through that. And Sophie's not been able to log in, so I'm going to see if Alex can potentially give us the 531 rule. You can drop that in the chat box, that field node. That'd be great, Alex. And then, uh, as we're looking for that, Mallory, walk us through the 5:3:1 rule. A great way to be practical.

Speaker B: Sure. And also, way to go, Alex. That was so fast. Even you Monday so the 5, 31 rule goes like this, is that if we were to add some, um, discipline around this, maybe this is the discipline you adopt. Five is can you spend time with diverse and meaningful, like a broader group of people, five different people a week. Am I really holding myself accountable to five different people that are maybe one degree of separation out of the people that I naturally see every single day because of my job or my family? The third one is, am I nurturing, um, three close relationships a day? Am I nurturing three close relationships a day? So the first one is that breath, that diversity. And the three a day is the depth. Can I have that maintenance, that deep connection? And then the one is, can I have one hour of quality conversation a day? So just one hour, which sounds like a lot, but when you really think about it, it's the, uh, can I do that consistently over time, one hour a day? Um, I think the quality is the part that we would underline because we know that the relationship is the conversation, the conversation is the relationship. So if you have a quality conversation, you're going to have a quality relationship.

Speaker A: Mhm. That's good. All right, so I didn't prep you with this question, but I'm going to ask everyone in the chat box, and I'm also going to ask Mallory too, which one of those do you find to be most difficult to, to really create a cadence for? And I'll ask everybody in the chat box that as well. When you hear the five. Three. One. Ah, five a week, three a day, one a day. As Mallory just identified them, um, which one is most difficult? Uh, for you?

Speaker B: Um, uh, for me or what I see broadly, I see either way, I'm going to go with the one. We already saw one person pop up with that. But the reason is, is that it's also arguably the most important of the three. And the reason is, is that three and five is about the who. So we might have a list of, you know, these are the people I want to connect with this week. A lot of people have a version of that, like who have I not connected with? Who do I need to connect with? And then we will stockpile. So maybe the five, uh, five connections will all be done, you know, on a Friday. And I'm going to reach out to five people in a row and make that connection greater. Will you plug it in? The three nurturing three close relationships a day. Usually we're able to be intentional, but it's really about getting more around the depth and the daily maintenance on what we're already have a relationship or starting to or have that one is hard because it's that quality, it's the depth, it's the real time with somebody, whether it's in that chunk or broken up. And we have so many distractions now that how do I do that without the constant? Oh, hold on one second. Oh wait, wait, one more thing. Uh, hold on, I have a quick call. And that happens so frequently. So how do we have that real focused, uninterrupted time?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's good.

Speaker B: I didn't see all the comments. Are we in alignment or is this breaking lockdown?

Speaker A: We definitely kicked off with most people saying the one, uh, but certainly some folks who were uh, on the five or the three, um, which is, which is very interesting. Um, so uh, yeah, interruptions are absolutely huge. Michelle, I love what you, what you put there. And, and uh, Jack kind of double clicked on what Mallory had said. So let's move. So making the time for this is one thing. Um, and we're assuming the people on the receiving end of our 5, 31 want that time with us. One person wrote in a pre submitted question that said, uh, how do you develop a warm working relationship with a difficult and prickly individual? What does social fitness look like when the other person isn't making it easy? So here I've carved out this time. I've created this discipline. I uh, want to get into this kind of a cadence of being intentional about my relationships. What do I do when the person on the receiving end of this new inspiration that I have to develop my relationships and is giving me a prickly response?

Speaker B: I love the word prickly. Um, that's an interesting one. And I, you know, have to be cautious because that's the root of so many of our coaching conversations is exactly around coaching of I have to work with this person, I don't like this person, I don't want to be super close to this person, but they're important or I need to be able to influence them or we need to have a partnership together. So if I give away too much secret sauce, there's no coaching. However, what I will say is, uh, when somebody's prickly it says I uh, think the question you mentioned the word warmth in there, it's not even about warmth because they're not reciprocating the warmth. You might not genuinely feel that I have any sort of warmth to this person. So in that situation I'm m going to say lean more into your curiosity. Could I get deeply curious about the person? Could I Find any version of commonality. Could I at least understand or learn more about them? And I know we talk about it quite a bit, but uh, we talk about as the four P's and if you can get to know the person on. Who are the people that are really important to them? What places matter? Is there a place they vacation? Is there someplace they like to go? Where is their. Where do they spend their fourth of July? Right. The next one is their, their passion or something outside of work? Do they play tennis or do they play ping pong of some kind? Do they like what do they do they. Do they underwater basket weave. Whatever their passion is, can you just learn about it and ask. And ask more questions? What's the question? 2, 3 and 4. And then the last one is that defining moment or that really personal experience. We don't recommend doing that out the gate, especially with a prickly person. But if you can start to cultivate just curiosity around those types of questions around who they are, that's how you can get to know them and build that relationship.

Speaker A: So ping pong and uh, underwater basket weaving were interesting pools.

Speaker B: I'm not sure where that came from, Wes. I'm just going with it it.

Speaker A: But I love it. I love it. Uh, if we have any underwater basket weavers, please raise your hand. We're gonna have. You will be my guest on the next webinar. If you underwater basket.

Speaker B: You, you say that but watch somebody on this call actually know an underwater basket weaver and we bring them on.

Speaker A: But I'm here for it. You'd make my year. There'd be no doubt about it that you would. You would, you would immediately have my one hour every day for the next month. If you want a basket weave for sure. Um, all right. Uh, let's, let's go to the question that just came in actually in the chat box. What do you mean by personal experience defining moment? Can you elaborate?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Pivotal moment. So that's where something that was a life altering moment or change. So some of those can be deeply personal. Some of them might not be as much. It could be. You know, I moved overseas for this career at, in a, in a time period of my life. And when I was overseas I felt like I finally was able to branch out, build something, do. And so that move overseas is highly symbolic and important to who I am and important to me. It uh, could be something like that. When I interview people often for the three, six, when we're, we're talking about somebody when in getting more from them, we often see Those about a, um, maybe a layoff that came through or a time that they had to lay somebody off or, um, a moment when they've had a loss of a loved one on the personal side or you name it, it could be something serious, it could be a health item. Um, it's something that made them view the world differently. So because of this, because of this experience afterwards, I'm no longer the same.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I also don't recommend asking that lightly. When you first, hey, I learned this 531 thing. Can you tell me about your pivotal moment? Great.

Speaker A: Yeah. They'd be like, what webinar book you were just, Were you just on? Yeah, right.

Speaker B: But to get curious and know somebody, it's pulling that.

Speaker A: Okay, so I want to get to two specific questions that did come on, uh, that pre submitted prior to the webinar based on this topic. And I believe there are things that come up a lot in regard when we talk about relationships and when we help leaders develop. Develop their relationships. The first one, I'm going to give you both of them and then we can answer them in order. But the first one is, uh, how social fitness or just building relationships or being intentional, disciplined in the relationships that we develop. How does it connect to influence and persuasion? And I'd love for you to talk about that piece of. We hear a lot. Well, am I inauthentic if I'm just doing this for influence and persuasion? How do you, how do we work with leaders on, on that? I think that's a very interesting piece of this. And then the other one is much more logistical that we get a lot in regards to what systems do you use to track this? Do you. And we're big on tracking things, uh, and measuring things and creating metrics around things. So let's start with the first one. How does social fitness, building intentional relationships, uh, jive with influence? Persuasion?

Speaker B: Yeah. Actually those questions are so deep. We're going to talk for the next hour. Right, Wes, There's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there.

Speaker A: I don't know. I got an underwater basket weaving appointment that I got to get to after this.

Speaker B: You are not going to let me live that down. I have a feeling. So when it comes to that idea of influence and how relationships fit in, we look at three areas. So when we're coaching and somebody's like, you know, my influence is just off. Okay, great, let's unpack that. There's three things that come underneath influence that we need to see which one of these is at play that is impacting their influence. Hopefully not all of them, but we've been there. Um, the first one is around the message. So is it something like that? You're saying how you're saying it, the frame that you're using? What, what is the what? Like, are you not articulating the message? Is the message off or uh, is the message off? The second one is the how. So that's the articulation piece. I know Wes has done probably more style webinars than you want to at this point, but that's really where that style piece comes in. Am I using the right style for the right person, for the right audience? So that I'm either showing up collaboratively enough that I'm bringing them along or powerfully enough that I'm getting them on board? I, um, guess this is a shout out to all those other webinars. So find them. Um, maybe Alex can drop them in. But it's that how piece. Is there something off with the messenger's style? And then the last piece is relationships. So sure, you can have the great message and you can be communicating with the right style, but if you have hurt your credibility in the relationship, then your ability to influence is going to be off and then it becomes a relational item. And if the relationship is really stuck in transaction and it's uh, a. I give you this, you give me that. Hey, I have a question. Hey, here's the answer. Hey, we need this. Here's that if you are in that place of the what, then you're not able to truly have the relationship where you can influence, where you're really speaking about and understanding goals. Mhm.

Speaker A: I've never heard you, uh, answer that exactly like that. And I really, really like that. That's, that's a, that's an excellent way to frame it and look at it. The second question is around tools. You know, do we, do we recommend CRM software, analog systems? What's our take on the role of systems as it relates to social fitness?

Speaker B: Yeah, and I'm going to bring in that authenticity piece back because it fits in honestly with both parts. Because some people are like, ugh, influence. If I'm pushing this relationship so I can influence, it doesn't feel authentic. And it fits in with the tools. Because then once, I mean someone on this call is like, yes, what tool should I be using for this? Um, which by the way, short thing is, there's no right answer for the tool. Um, but that authenticity piece of if I have a tool, if I have a Discipline. If I have a practice, then I'm no longer going to be able to be authentic with this. People are going to feel it. I'm just like a number on the box. So where, where I can come at this from a personal stance is that one of our partners has. The way that she organizes herself relationally is with a notebook and she has a list of all of the people who she wants to connect with, uh, and keep connection with. These are all my relationships. So then every Friday morning, so I guess she's stockpiling her number five, um, but she's opening up that book over coffee who have m. I not spoken to, and she gives those people a call. And I will say that I know she does this. I've heard her say this in presentations and on a Friday morning, if I get that phone call, I'm like, yes, you know what? She cared enough about me that I was on that list and I am completely okay with it. I guess the why is if we care about our fitness, which is the whole essence of the field node, if we care about the fitness, we're going to have a discipline. Uh, we have a strategy when it comes to pretty much everything else that we have in business. So why then do we not have a strategy when it comes to relationships, which is arguably an is. And the whole field note and research, which isn't fully ours, says is the key of everything. We should have a strategy and discipline around that as well.

Speaker A: Mhm. I've heard some of our other coaches say it in regards to if you approach and your frame is, um, well, you don't care. I'm just in your next, you know, uh, roundabout on the tracking list that you have, if you approach it that way, you could or you approach it as I was, uh, you cared enough for me that you did make a note of that to ensure that, that that happened. And the second is what it typically feels like on the receiving end. Um, I've told people in our firm things that are going on and then uh, you know, with me, and it's going to happen here in two weeks and uh, that individual calls me in that two weeks and I know full well they've put me in whatever reminder tool that they're using, but it still means a lot because I know they cared enough to really want to remember that and follow up with that too. So again, the systems, the tracking, the intentionality, the discipline, the cadence of this says you care first and foremost. Each, uh, and every time. You'd agree with that, Mallory, right? Move past the systems move past, you know, whether or not this is going to come across authentic and really get after it.

Speaker B: It's really hitting on the execution. Like if it's not, it's not really the system to undermine the authenticity, it's the execution.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. All right, so, uh, let's get to this last question that came in ahead of time. Um, and uh, how do you, how do you work in an environment? Maybe my leader or my organization has a, just a high initiative priority around efficiency or high priority around results. And they have not as much value in this relationship aspect of things. How does a leader navigate in that type of environment? Trying to bring this intentionality to relationships, uh, within a organization that's maybe prioritizing other things.

Speaker B: Wes, I have no idea. We've never worked with a company that's like that. That's not the environment that we're. No, I'm just kidding. That's obviously something that we're seeing more and more right now with, uh, companies that we're working with where it's the how am I focusing on efficiency? And if I'm focusing on efficiency, if it's being pushed for output, how do I balance this? Um, and the answer is in that situation, your own personal discipline actually matters more because there might not be as many systems, tools, mentoring programs, everything else to add that accountability. So the accountability is on you. So I would say you have to treat your relational touch points on your calendar as though they're non negotiable. I'm going to give everyone, you know, 90, 10 or 80, 20 or whatever percentage you like. But you have to treat those as the non negotiable because it sends a really strong message to Wes. If we have a standing meeting once a week and I always cancel it because there's another priority comes up. So can you hold yourself accountable when the organization doesn't? The second one is, uh, I would say utilizing like short, shorter touch points as well. So maybe you shoot a quick text or a ping or an email or when you're in transit or what does it look like it does? These don't. It doesn't say you need to have five hour long conversations every single day. No one has time for that. But it is about having those touch points and having those quick moments and utilizing that. And then I would also keep grounding on the idea of what would the cost be if I start neglecting my relationships? Am I going to have resentment for this job or am I going to not help myself propel career wise that I could propel career wise.

Speaker A: That's good.

Speaker B: Differentiate at that point.

Speaker A: Yeah, we are at our time. I want to give m you. We're going to take a couple extra minutes here and Mallory, I want you to have just a quick nugget to deliver any, uh, specific encouragement, uh, that you would to uh, those listening in as you collect those thoughts want, um, to strongly encourage you. Alex knows everything we know about relationships. There are a lot of incredible behaviors, best practices. So if you have access to Alex, uh, make sure to carry this conversation forward. In the spirit of that, I'll have Alex drop several links in the chat box. For those of you who are attending live, we have, uh, upcoming on location events, uh, where we're going to be in different parts of the US for some just complimentary sessions where we really are expanding kind of what these webinar experiences are. But doing that live and in person, uh, all around mine and Mallory's, uh, LinkedIn. We'd love to connect with you there, uh, upcoming webinars that we have. And then one thing I want to highlight is we are having a lot of very good feedback as it relates to our generative AI short course that our firm is leading right now. Um, so that link will be in the, the chat box as well. There is another cohort that's being developed around that. So lots of opportunities to connect with us.

Speaker B: Go ahead, Wes. We also have an advisory relationship short course that Diana Hong and I are doing. It kicks off in September. Um, and if you want to join us for a weekly lunch, point to talk. We're going to hit relationships, we're going to hit everything around influence, really. We're going to talk credibility, we're going to talk relationships, we're going to talk about the style. So breaking down all three of the pieces that I teed up with influence, that is the basis of this. So let's spend lunch together for two months talking about these topics together. Uh, you asked my one takeaway.

Speaker A: Yeah, as you get to that last thing, I'm sure by the end of your comments, Alex or Sophie will drop the link to the relationship, uh, short course.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Thanks Alex for doing that. Appreciate it. That was my takeaway. Wes, join me for more. Um, and we may have Wes guest star on this as well. We tend to enjoy his perspective, as you guys know, in terms of Wes with relationships. Uh, my one takeaway is the core of all of this is that discipline matters. And oftentimes coaches or people that we are talking to in a group feel as though if the relationship is hard. I want to disengage, I want to pull back. You, uh, know, I'm not going to do relationships if they're hard. I'm going to argue that if the relationship is hard, that means you're actually probably doing it. Right.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: We're pushing ourselves. This is all about having that discipline and adding in. And I would say with the 5, 3, 1 rule, maybe you adopt it, try it out for a week, a month, give yourself a timeline. And if you were to only pick one based on the comments in the chat and based on this conversation, maybe you pick that one. Could I have one one hour quality conversation a day with the keywords on quality and conversation so that you can really get a feel on how do I up my influence and up my relationships? Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah, that's good.

Speaker B: Uh, fan, what's your takeaway? Wes?

Speaker A: Um, um, I asked the question, but I made a mental note to think about it myself in regards to which of the 531 rule is most diffic? Uh, for me. Um, and as I asked the question, I thought. I've never, never really thought about that. Uh, for, for myself, I don't think it would be the one hour. In fact, right before the webinar started, and in fact I was a little late to logging in with Mallory. Uh, I was on a call with somebody and I spent an hour with them just chatting and catching up and those types of things. So wouldn't be the one hour for me. Uh, I would say I'm not as intentional as I could be about the five and the three. Um, especially tracking the five because it's more on a weekly basis. Um, so I think, uh, I think that was my big, uh, big takeaway. And Alex did indeed drop the link to the, um, uh, the relationship, uh, short course too.

Speaker B: The five is interesting. That's the who you should be connecting with to. Not just who I naturally just want to connect with. It's like, can you push yourself to be further out? I think that's interesting.

Speaker A: And I think it'd be interesting for those of you who are on the call and did not, uh, don't track these types of things. I wonder if you just took a minute to see how close are you to the 531 rule without being intentional about it. I think that would be an interesting place to start. Who did I connect with this week? Um, and then, uh, and then look at what it would look like to create the actual cadence to ensure you're doing that. Uh, in regards to Social Security Fitness. All right. We are well over our time at this point. No surprise. Mallory, you and I could chat for a very long time. We will leave the chat box open here for another minute or two. Um, and so you can grab at any links that you need to. Appreciate everyone attending live today, those of you listening to the recording as well. Alex, thanks, as always, uh, for being a part of our discussion in the chat box. And, Mallory, as always, thank you for being such a shining example of being intentional around relationships within our firm and with our clients as well. We appreciate you. Thanks, everybody. And we will see you in the next one.

Speaker B: Thank you.