Episode 128: Unlocking Healthcare Payer Data | How DataRise is Changing the Game

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to Coffee with Coker, a healthcare business podcast from the Coker Group that focuses on solutions to help healthcare organizations effectively navigate the changing healthcare industry landscape. All right, well welcome back to another episode of Coffee with Coker. My name is Mark Reibel, I'm the host of uh, Coker's podcast. And, and um, today we have a um, relatively new member of the team talking about something that is very new at Coker and uh, very much of interest for our audience and the clients we work with day in and day out. And so um, I wanted to introduce ah, an individual who as I said is um, still relatively new at Coker. Nick Noosad joined um, a number of months ago but um, he joined through the acquisition of his business and his um, his data solution called Datarise. And um, and that's what we're talking about today and really just wanted to give Nick an opportunity to explain what is Datarise? Because this is a um, a data and analytics solution that um, companies in the healthcare services space have been relying on for a number of years as Nick has developed this product and continued to grow and expand the data that's available. And so again I just wanted to give Nick an opportunity to tell people what exactly Datarise is, what it does, who's it for, that type of stuff. Because um, we're getting a lot of interest and questions as the solution continues to grow. And so Nick, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker A: Oh, thank you so much Mark, appreciate it.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And maybe before we dive into the product itself, um, I'd love to just have you talk a little bit about your background, how you develop the solution and um, kind of the evolution of it all the way until the last couple months where Data Rise is now, um, uh, a uh, Coker uh, solution. So yeah, if you could give us a little bit of background there that'd be helpful place to start I think.

Speaker A: Certainly. My name is Nick Noosad, I'm the Vice President of Innovation here at Coker. I live in Denver, Colorado and as a healthcare business consultant I've worked on hundreds and hundreds of major healthcare business transactions over the years and probably worked on thousands, probably at least, at least a thousand, if not several thousand physician employment agreements. And uh, have been doing that for a long time. So over the past 10 years or so I'd say that my consulting practice has shifted each year. I've done less and less hands on consulting work and done more and more data licensing and software licensing. Being one of the older millennials, I feel like I'm probably a Pretty good representative of my generation. The Internet is my life. I do everything online from uh, buying food and making consumer purchases to making business purchases and now making business sales. So what we now call Datarise was originally called healthcontract.com and that was started as a online contract management system service. And uh, over time that has pivoted into a portfolio of nearly, I'd say 20 probably different data subscriptions, software, service subscriptions that are all available for purchase online and use. Um, and we have a decent portfolio of clients. Lots, ah, and lots of consulting firms and healthcare organizations all over the United States license the Datarise subscriptions and services. And today, uh, I look forward to talking about one in particular that I'm very keen on and we've had a lot of interest in and that's our commercial reimbursement data subscription.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's helpful and I'm glad you mentioned that because you reference um, you know, your, your background doing provider uh, contracts and the fact that really healthcontract.com started as, as a contract, uh, management tool. And you also talked about the um, growing utilization and even reliance on technology solutions and data. And that's a, that's a very key integral part of what, of what Coker does and our services with clients, which is, you know, almost everything we do relies on a lot of data, whether it's compensation data, survey data, um, reimbursement data which we'll talk about. Um, it can be, you know, fair market value and uh, uh, industry benchmarks. Um, on the technology side we use all kinds of data to dashboards for tracking, uh, and managing resources and performance and all of these different things. So really everything that we do to some degree, um, at least involves or requires um, a hefty amount of data, um, and analysis. And so really that's, I think that's um, helpful here because you know this is a. Data rise is, is really a suite of solutions and products that um, features all kinds of different um, uh, data analytics packages that can be used for um, various purposes. And we're going to talk about a couple of them. Certainly one today which you mentioned, which, which was the uh, commercial reimbursement data. But um, really there's there's so much here and, and uh, you know, what we typically do in our services when we you know, involve the usage of data, market data, whatever it may be, survey data, um, usually we're utilizing multiple different sources and, and different types of reports when, when we're uh, you know, providing any sort of guidance or Opinions for clients. And um, so I think that's where this really made a lot of sense for us at Covert, because, um, the data that you have been compiling and putting into your product solutions M has been something, you know, we've utilized for some time. Um, but a lot of others, a lot of other firms, a lot of other organizations can um, utilize this as they already do, um, for various purposes. So maybe before we dive into the newest product, just give us a quick snapshot of some of the different, uh, data solutions and products that you developed and are available for people to use out there.

Speaker A: Sure. So I'd say there's three or four different buckets of subscriptions, uh, and services online. And these are all located now@datarise.cokergroup.com so the largest category of subscriptions is probably physician compensation subscriptions. So we have the largest medical director compensation data subscription. We have more data points for medical director compensation than any other source out there. We have the largest physician and app malpractice premium, uh, data subscription. We have 47,000 data points for malpractice premiums for physicians and apps in 49 states in the District of Columbia. Uh, we have also a category of compensation data for Form 990, uh, compensation arrangements, which includes several million compensation arrangements for not just physicians, but also executive compensation apps obviously, and then independent contractors. So compensation is our largest category of data subscriptions. There's more than what I just mentioned. We have business intelligence, uh, for market types of things, which physicians are in, which groups in which states, commercial reimbursement and then we have some online, um, services. So we have, of course we have our original product, the, the contract management system, um, which is also available for folks if they want a full service healthcare focused contract management system that's available as well.

Speaker B: Gotcha. Yeah, that's helpful. Uh, obviously you've had a lot, you referenced a lot of uh, data available for related to physician compensation, which is something obviously we are involved in heavily, um, in our consulting services. But um, yeah, I think a lot of times when people think of physician compensation and they think of the benchmarks, right, which predominantly come from the main surveys that are utilized out there when thinking about fair market value. But really there's a lot of other uh, points you mentioned, medical director compensation and app compensation, which is, is uh, areas that frankly they are not as covered or at least not as well covered in the traditional surveys that most people tend to point to. And um, and then again just specialty compensation, uh, and, and other things like that that I Think you know, this data allows folks to get much deeper into um, the, the various data points and, and kind of understanding them better, um, even beyond the you know, self reported survey data that uh, again has been sort of the gold standard there for uh, however many years. Um, and you know one of the things we really wanted to highlight is this new data solution package which ties into commercial reimbursement data, which again is something that um, is very helpful whether you are talking about physician compensation or you're talking about you know, payer contracting and many other things. So give us an overview of this product and kind of how it came about and you know those types of things the online.

Speaker A: Sure. So we're talking about Coker's data rise commercial reimbursement data. So Coker now has the commercial reimbursement contract rates for virtually all healthcare services for all commercial health insurance carriers in the United States. There's thousands and thousands of gigabytes of commercial reimbursement contract data available. And because that's a tall order to fill, Coker now provides a service to its customers to identify the commercial reimbursement rates for specific healthcare services for each commercial insurance carrier in each market. And uh, that data came out of something called the transparency and coverage rule. So Last year during 2024 the federal transparency and coverage rule went into effect nationwide here in the US and that transparency and coverage rule required all health insurance carriers and all third party administrators to release all health plan reimbursement rate data. That rule was finalized years and years ago in 2020. It just went into full effect last year. I think it was around January 1st of 2024. So what that means is that UnitedHealthcare, Aetna, uh, Cigna, Kaiser HealthNet, all the blue Cross plans across all the states and every other one off commercial health insurance plan must release all in network reimbursement rates. That includes every physician contract rate, every ambulatory surgery center contract, imaging center contract, hospital therapist and every other in network provider contract. That also includes both fully insured health plans as well as self insured health plans for which the commercial insurance carriers only serve as third party administrators.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's an important point. The uh, transparency and coverage rule essentially required these plans to you know, make, to provide visibility into the rates and um, and contracts, um, which historically have been very closely guarded. So that just, just making those or adding that transparency is, is just a significant change that I'm not even sure if, if everyone's aware that that even exist now. But even Though they're supposed to be made publicly available. Um, there's really no other, other data resource, um, that I'm aware of that provides all of this in one place. And, and with the functionality of you know, being able to search and mine data and drill down on, on that data to understand it better when needing uh, to be used perhaps in, in renegotiating contracts or, or developing relationships with different plans and setting rates and all of that stuff. Um, you know, I'm not aware of any other solution that has all that in one place with the functionality that's provided, are you?

Speaker A: Well, if there are, we're certainly not going to advertise for them here, are we?

Speaker B: Not at all, absolutely. And I just think it's interesting the uh, you know, the fact that um, even if it's available and it's required to be available, you know, understanding and, or getting access in one place to this, this information and then going a step further and really understanding the data and putting into context again is, it's more than just making it available. It's putting into a form that can be used and in a strategic and or tactical way. So I just, I wanted to highlight that because I think this is a significant step forward in not only providing and facilitating transparency, but being able to use it um, to uh, you know, to achieve whatever outcomes our clients are looking for. And so with that in mind, you know, what, what kind of, are there any key trends going on in the market where um, you know, we can kind of look into what the data is telling us about, you know, physician practice, reimbursement and contracting rates and things like that?

Speaker A: Oh, certainly. So within each health plan there are massive fluctuations, massive variations in the reimbursement for physician services for the exact same services within the exact same markets and health plan. We also see massive fluctuations obviously from market to market. So in different states we have very different reimbursement environments. So as you know Mark, I uh, recently shared some United Healthcare physician reimbursement data internally here at Coker with the firm for just some examples. Like we looked at level four office visit reimbursement in the state of Georgia and that data showed that physicians affiliated with children's hospitals in the state were generally getting for example 300% of Medicare reimbursement. In contrast, the median sort of middle of the road United Healthcare rate in Georgia was only about 150% of Medicare for those same level four office visits. So the median 150%. Whereas physicians aligned with a children's health system, 300%. They're getting twice as much up in Wisconsin, though, compared to Georgia, we had a very different market. So the median rate for that same service up in Wisconsin was about 200% of Medicare for UnitedHealthcare in Wisconsin, compared to just 150% of Medicare in Georgia. So United does not have a very big presence up in Wisconsin. So the providers up there are much more likely and able to walk away from a contract if they don't get the reimbursement rates that they want. So one thing that jumped out at me immediately, one trend with physician reimbursement, is that the whole top half of the distribution of reimbursement rates is just dominated by big medical groups affiliated with big health systems and national chains. In comparison, the bottom half of the distributions of reimbursement rates is almost entirely small independent physician groups. Another thing I notice is that nearly all physicians affiliated with big medical groups or big health system groups are on the exact same fee schedule for all their services and specialties. So when these big groups often affiliated with a health system, when they negotiate for one big contract, the reimbursement rates for each service tend to be the same across all specialties within that big group. Whereas in the independent physician markets, we tend to see different reimbursement rates for the same services across specialties. So we see higher reimbursement rates for special services paid to certain specialties like neonatology or obgyn, cardiology, orthopedic surgery. Those are specialties where we might see higher reimbursement for the same services compared to some other, uh, specialties like family medicine, which might get paid less for, you know, those office visits.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm curious on that is when we think about things causing, you know, higher and lower rates and reimbursement, um, are, are those kind of the typical outliers you're seeing? You know, the ones, the large groups they're affiliated with, you know, larger health systems versus the independent groups or the smaller groups. Any other sort of sources of outliers that you're seeing in some of this data?

Speaker A: Well, I would say the biggest factor driving outliers is probably geography. Uh, for example, here in Colorado, we have an orthopedic group way up in Vail and Aspen called the Steadman Clinic. In the Steadman Clinic, orthopedic surgeons get paid 600% of Medicare by United Healthcare for some very common orthopedic procedures. Now, it probably helps that some of those docs serve as the Olympic committee Physicians for the US Ski teams and US Snowboarding teams. But I think the bigger factor at play is that those surgeons live up in a very remote mountainous region and they've all very astutely joined together into one large, decent sized orthopedic group. So the carriers like United just don't have a lot of alternatives within three hours driving distance, especially during the winter. So if those docs and that group went out of network, there could be a decent number of, of air ambulance rides into Denver from way up in the mountains, you know, helicopters and plane rides for patients that hurt themselves skiing. So um, apart from those regional access issues, there's also a handful of outlier state markets where the commercial insurance carriers either have really dominant market share or a lack of dominant market share. So in Alabama, for example, Blue Cross in Alabama has over 90% market share in most areas of the state. And that's the primary reason that Alabama has the lowest commercial reimbursement in the entire United, uh, States. Nobody down there can afford to walk away from Blue Cross Alabama because it's got the whole market. So Blue Cross really sets the rates down there. Another state.

Speaker B: Sorry, sorry to interrupt you, but so, so we're seeing kind of purchasing power through strength in numbers, um, you know, the impact of cost of services, like you know, you mentioned the, the transportation cost in Colorado, um, and, and then sort of, you know, market concentration fresher, um, where, you know, there's a high concentration on one predominant or small group of predominant payers that sort uh, of dominate the, the geographic market.

Speaker A: That's exactly right. So I'd say negotiating uh, power with size and then geography.

Speaker B: Gotcha. And sorry, I cut you off, you're about to say something else there.

Speaker A: Well, I was going to give another example. Uh, in comparison to Alabama, other states like Wisconsin, for instance, there is no health insurance carrier in Wisconsin that has over 50% market share in any regional market up there. So because there is no dominant plan up there, providers can afford to walk away from some of those contracts and contract negotiations. Like they can walk away from UnitedHealthcare contract up there. And as a result providers can negotiate up, uh, rates 30, 35% higher reimbursement rates in Wisconsin compared to some other states, even though their expenses up there are not any higher. The practice expenses and malpractice expenses up in Wisconsin are actually lower than the national average, not higher, and they still get above average reimbursement.

Speaker B: So when you know whether you're, we're using this type of data and looking at these Trends, working directly with clients, or if organizations purchase the data themselves directly, um, which they can certainly do. Um, is that typically sort of how they're using it? You know, they're coming up, they're coming into contract rate, uh, negotiation windows and you know, they need market data to understand what, what can the market absorb? What, what are some of the other market dynamics? You know, if, if there is room for, you know, upward pressure or we're going to have to be, you know, pretty conservative and flexible here or, or something in between. Is that kind of the typical approach when utilizing this type of data?

Speaker A: Uh, there's a few different use cases. I'd say the most common is for new ventures. The managed care department is trying to give management input on what could we get in this market. Like, if you're operating a national health system or a national chain, you know, off the top of your head, you're not going to know what the rates are in every single market. So you're going to need some intelligence to advise. Well, if we were to go into this market, if we were to develop a hospital or surgery center or, or get involved with physician groups in this area, what could we get, reasonably expect to get from a reimbursement standpoint? Um, the other major use that we see is just for specific arrangements. Uh, so there's all types of professional service arrangements, PSAs, where physicians and hospitals and labs have to decide who's going to bill for this service. Does it make sense for the physicians to be our contractor and they drop the bills themselves, or is everyone going to be better off if they assign their billing over to us as the health system or the lab or whoever it is? And then we, we pay the physicians as, as contractors under a psa. So that's another, another decision folks want to know. And, um, this is a good data source for making those management decisions.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. I mean, management decisions and, um, strategic marketing positioning and, and even, even on the kind of financial planning side, you know, to understand the impact, um, of, of, you know, rate negotiation and rate setting, um, that's going to extend for some time period of, you know, typically a few years, um, and, you know, probably a lot of other use cases as well. I'm curious what. Um, we talked a little bit about, you know, some of the outliers and, and I'm, I'm sorry if I'm bouncing around a little bit. We've talked about some of the, um, you know, contract rates. And on the physician side, what are you seeing Anything that's, you know, maybe relevant to, like surgery centers for instance, or hospitals, uh, at the health system level that are thinking about, you know, that, that are, as we know, pretty rapidly, at least in certain geographies, expanding, um, you know, where they may benefit from this, uh, intelligence we are in

Speaker A: terms of surgery centers. The upper half of reimbursement rates paid to surgery centers in the market is just dominated by national chains like HCA and SCA Surgical Care affiliates. At the same time, the bottom half of the reimbursement rates we see the bottom half of the market is mostly one off independent surgery centers. Now in contrast to physician services, we are seeing much bigger markups on Medicare rates for some of these surgery centers operated by health systems and these big national management companies. So in certain markets, not every market, but in certain markets, it's not uncommon to see centers managed by HCA or SCA or USPI getting 400% to 500% of Medicare reimbursement for key services. They don't get 500% of Medicare in every market, but they do get it in some markets. And it's very clear. So some regional hospital systems are getting very, uh, robust reimbursement as well for their surgery centers. Networks of surgery centers, again, 400 to 500% of reimbursement. the same time, other health systems with the same number of surgery centers might only be getting 125% of Medicare, not even near what others are in the same market. So the priority of ASC reimbursement for some health systems does not seem to be as high of a priority as it is for others in their strategy, their managed care strategy.

Speaker B: Yeah, that, that makes sense. I mean, that's interesting because uh, and, and again, I guess it makes sense where you know, the, the larger systems have more leverage in certain markets, um, versus, you know, an independent group, a group owned asc, um, may not have that, that leverage, if you will. But um, I, I wonder too, how does kind of going back to the geography piece that you were talking about earlier, is there any, um, any trends with, you know, rural versus urban? I mean typically, I think, or traditionally we've known that you're just. It's normal to see pretty different rates depending it can be higher or lower, but depending on, you know, the urban markets, um, where you may have more concentration, um, you know, more competition, those types of things in rural markets, um, where you may not have as much of that. But by the same token, a lot of times in rural doc. In rural markets you're you're dealing with, you know, different demographics around income and, and, you know, um, the availability, the access to services. Yes, particularly specialized services. Is, is any of that coming through in some of the. The trends you've seen?

Speaker A: Absolutely. We see both too. We see rural markets, like I was saying, those rural mountainous regions where there's no alternatives for these carriers. So it makes good business sense for them to pay some rural providers where there's no alternatives, very high reimbursement rates like we saw with the Steadman Clinic at, uh, the same time in other markets, in some very dense urban markets where there's lots of alternatives. Uh, for example, here in Denver, there's a safety net health system, safety net hostel in Denver, where I live, that's getting the worst reimbursement of all the health systems in the region. And that's a real shame. If anyone had an argument for cost shifting the cost of care, uh, in terms of managed care, it would be a safety net hospital here in Denver, like Denver Health. And I'm a bit shocked to see that they're getting, you know, the worst commercial reimbursements in town. Uh, but it's because there's a lot of alternatives. They don't. They don't, uh, necessarily need the safety network, uh, safety net hospital in their network. There's a lot of other hospitals in town.

Speaker B: So, yeah, it goes half ways for sure. We've seen that in other urban centers as well. Um, those. Those kind of competitive dynamics, uh, at play. You talked or you referenced a few minutes ago, some, you know, Medicare coverage. And, and, um, I, I'm curious any, uh, anything you're seeing as it relates to, you know, things covered by commercial payers versus what, you know, Medicare beneficiaries are going to see under that coverage that, you know, is. Is playing out in some of the data.

Speaker A: Yeah. So having the commercial reimbursement data gives us insights into all the services that there has been no Medicare coverage for. We don't know what Medicare would pay because Medicare doesn't cover these things, and that's a long list. So, for example, Medicare does not pay physicians for professional consults, and that's been that way for a long time. But that does not necessarily mean that that's something that the commercial payers don't pay. So we do have commercial insurance carriers that pay physicians for professional consults. There's also pediatric services, lots of pediatric services not traditionally covered by Medicare. Like the, well, child care visits. Uh, those are rather long, uh, more costly office visits, more thorough uh, office visits. And we know what those commercial carriers are paying for those. Now in addition to that, dental and vision, those are not things traditionally covered by Medicare, but those are in these health plans and this commercial reimbursement data, we have a much larger swath of behavioral health and mental health services, things that we don't see as much in Medicare. And then commercial insurance carriers do not typically pay for fertility treatments, but lots and lots of self insured employers are offering fertility treatment benefits now. And because those are health plan benefits administered by these insurance companies, serving in a third party administrator role, a TPA role, we are now seeing those fertility reimbursement rates finally, uh, under this transparency in coverage data.

Speaker B: Yeah, that, that last piece is interesting because that is very, that's, that's a, um, a newer trend I think that we're, that we were seeing that we historically did not have a lot of insight into. Um, so that, that's interesting. Um, when we talked about some use cases, right, but tell me, kind of, you know, drilling down on one or a couple of the use cases, um, like how are, how is this data actually being used? I mean obviously you know, we use it heavily and providing direction for our clients and a wide range of scenarios, um, even you know, other consulting firms are using it and um, you know, or uh, healthcare provider organizations can use it. But like uh, what are some of the things you're seeing specifically in terms of these use cases, like how they're actually utilizing this data and the different situations they're in?

Speaker A: Well, every single healthcare organization, whether you're a, a little physician practice or a big health system, you should all be benchmarking your reimbursement and collections against your peers. So if you're big enough to be able to negotiate reimbursement rates, if you're not just taking the contract that's given to you, this is great intelligence to inform you of what your competitor down the street or even next door is getting. We are seeing surgery centers on the same street get three times what their neighbor is getting, uh, uh, and that's driving a lot of strategic decisions. So startup businesses, new ventures, new service lines can now confidently predict the range of market reimbursement, uh, for their services before they even start building their building, before they break ground. And that takes a lot of risk out of these big investments and gambles they're making. If you know that the market reimbursement for independent centers is not going to be sufficient to hit your numbers, your break even numbers or your return on investment Numbers, you know, perhaps you go do a deal with a big national chain or health system that, you know, is getting the rates that you need and want, or maybe God forbid, better than the rates that you need or want, and maybe they come in as a, an equity partner in such a manner that allows you to get access to their contract rates. So, yeah, that really opens up the door.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was actually thinking about that when we work with a lot of clients that are sort of facing that exact question, you know, do we build, do we partner, do we buy? Um, and, or some combo thereof. But you know, and thinking about again, going back to the management decision scenario, I mean, this is something that, um, it could be a significant piece of intel that, that determines, uh, the optimal path. Um, or it could be something that, you know, that this is the path we need to go down. But we need this data to validate it. We need it, we need it to help from a capital planning standpoint, you know, and um, and then from an ongoing sort of financial planning and management perspective, um, to achieve that ROI that, that they need. And so, and then you think about, okay, what about the other options like joint venture that you referenced or, um, you know, aligning with a larger system or chain that, you know, gives them that, that, that greater leverage or purchasing negotiating power? Um, I think those are all things that we see all the time where a lot of times we just, without that information, you know, we, we're, we're all trying to be as diligent as we possibly can, but there was, there was this, um, significant barrier related to the lack of information available that uh, allowed them to really pinpoint and to know at a pretty detailed level, like if there is a center that we are developing and the one down the road is significantly more competitive on their contracts, then, you know, that is, um, obviously that's something you want to know earlier rather than later. So I think those are all really good, really good, um, use cases to think about. We talked earlier about, um, some of the stuff that you've done in the past and of course that Coker has done for decades around physician compensation. And so I'm curious, does this data come into play or a factor at all or benefit in any way when it comes to thinking about fair market value, contract rates, compensation and physician and even apps and other providers even talked about medical directorships and some of your other data packages. Uh, is there, does it, does this data play into that at all?

Speaker A: Oh, yes, it does. So commercial reimbursement data helps US quantify outliers and outlier markets. So when you're dealing with national survey data, you get these huge ranges of compensation rates and salaries and they don't really explain and they don't give you the visibility to understand which markets fall, uh, within those huge national ranges. So if I know that the Steadman Clinic here in Colorado in Vail and Aspen is getting paid 600% of Medicare from insurance carriers, I would have no problem signing off on an FMV opinion for their physician compensation that's commensurate with the outlier reimbursement they're getting in their market and their situation. We see physicians in Wisconsin, as I said, getting 35% higher commercial reimbursement from United than uh, we see in other states, more representative than national averages. So while we have lower practice expenses and lower malpractice expenses up in Wisconsin and the national average, that's not necessarily reflective of the economics going work up there. So this data gives us empirical basis to justify compensation rates above and beyond what we would find in the standard compensation survey percentiles and thresholds.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, I mean there's just so many different scenarios where um, again, as I was talking about earlier, you know, this data, now that it's available, um, can be used in so many different ways. And you know, this is one of those things where again, whether it's, you know, through our services from an advisory perspective or if it's just accessing the data, I think that is, you know, there's a really interesting and compelling story here in terms of the resource value, um, the intelligence value, if you will, on this. And it's relevant to literally every healthcare provider organization across the country, um, particularly when we think about some of those geographical trends and uh, outliers as well. So I think this is something that it's literally relevant for everybody in our network and our universe, Coker and who we deal with. Um, but I think there are so many different applications that we could literally spend hours going through all the different use cases and scenarios, I'm sure, which we can't today. But I did want to kind of bring it full circle, um, and let you have the chance to tell people, you know, how do they get access to this data? What are the different mechanisms? Where do they start? You, you mentioned, um, you know, via the Coker website. Um, obviously they can get more information and, and learn how to access it directly there. We'll obviously make sure there's. The appropriate links are in the notes for this, for this episode as well, but maybe just spend a second talking about getting access to the data.

Speaker A: Certainly. So the commercial reimbursement data, just like all the Datarise data, is available online at datarise.cokergroup.com we have our own online store. And uh, for the commercial reimbursement data, you could order and pay online. You can order a single health plan query for one market in one state. You could order unlimited queries for one state. You could order unlimited queries across multiple states or all states. And we can provide that data however you want. It's a custom ad hoc service. If you just want the raw data in a CSV file or an Excel file, we could do that. If you're ordering material, millions and millions of rows of data. We also have options for web based access to your data through web based database type query tools. So that might be a good option for folks who don't want dozens or hundreds of Excel files. Like I said, uh, each one of these health plan data files from the carriers can be hundreds of gigabytes. Each file could be, you know, 250 gigabytes. So you could easily fill up a laptop hard drive very quickly with just a few states worth of data. So we can work with you on how to distribute that and provide access to that.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point. Uh, it that your last statement there in terms of working with people on, you know, what, what answers are they, what questions are they trying to get answers to? Right. And where do they really need guidance? I mean, and, and I think it's nice that the data is, you know, know, can be sort of tiered, uh, if you will, as far as what level of granularity do people really need, you know, if it's something related to negotiating a very specific contract and a very specific market, market and specialty, or, or subservice, whatever it may be, or if it's something more broad, more strategic across, you know, multiple markets, geographies, specialties, et cetera, um, there's really an endless options. There are endless options as far as how you know, that access can ultimate, ultimately be structured and you can sort of, you know, purchase it all or, or the, the relevant pieces for, you know, your respective situation. So that's, uh, that's, I think that's one of the great features of this. And, and again, you know, this is something we do in working with our clients. We rely on a lot of this data, um, and making those recommendations and determining, you know, fair market value parameters and things like that that just really go a lot farther beyond what the traditional surveys have, have provided historically. So I think this is something that's. I, I don't usually like to use the term game changer, um, but I feel like this is one of those situations where it's, it's an appropriate term to use because it's um, not only is it new as far as the transparency goes, but just the, the uh, ability to, you know, utilize this type of information, turn it into actionable intelligence that can ultimately be used in making smarter, more effective business, uh, decisions is something that, I mean, that's something our clients always, always are interested in, uh, and, and benefiting from. So that's, that's very helpful and, and just so people know, you know, like I said, we, this is only kind of grazing the surface on what Data Rise offers. Um, as Nick mentioned, there's a lot more information. Coker, Coca Group, uh, data. I'm sorry, Dataise. Coca group dot com. Um, again, we'll make sure that link is available in the notes and. But there's going to be a lot more information coming out here in the very near future about all the data that Nick and his team are continuing to build and develop and the database resources that they're making available to clients out there is something that is only going to continue to grow and expand. So it's an exciting thing that is again, relatively new for Coker. Um, as far as Data Rise, that's definitely something new.

Speaker A: New.

Speaker B: And what Nick and his team has continued to build and work on, you know, is something we're really excited about for the future. So there will definitely be more to come on this, more discussion to be had. But I think if people are interested, a great place to start is reaching out to Nick. Again. Nick's, uh, available through the Coker website. Again, we'll make sure that his information is in the notes as well as the uh, Datarise site as well, so that people can kind of learn for themselves and you know, if they do have questions on where do I, what do I need and where do I get started, Nick's the best place to start with that, so we'd love to, um, point you in his direction and, and, and make ourselves available to answer any of your questions and figuring out what you need and the solutions you're looking for, we'll make that work. But in the meantime, Nick, I really appreciate you coming on and talking about this again. Very exciting stuff and more to come in the very near future, of course.

Speaker A: Thank you very much.

Speaker C: We hope you enjoyed that episode of Coffee with Coker, and we thank you for listening. We want to encourage all of our listeners to participate and contribute in the podcast. Uh, so if you have any questions on any of the things we discussed in this episode, any of the topics that were presented, please feel free to ask us. Also, we welcome your feedback and suggestions. If you have any ideas, uh, related to the material we discussed in this episode or again or in any episode, please let us know and we'll make sure to incorporate it. And if you have ideas for topics you'd like to hear more information about in future episodes, please send those suggestions to us. We'd love to hear them and we'd love to incorporate them into our future episodes. Uh, you can find us online and on social media. Start with our website, and specifically the podcast is copywithcoker.com. you can also find that through the main coker website@cokergroup.com you can also find us on social media, Twitter, Okergroup, and then on LinkedIn. You can search for Coker Group and find our page and the page for, uh, some of our team members as well there. So you can find us and reach out to us a number of places and then if you want to contact us directly, one of the best ways to do that, email feedbackokergroup.com that's feedbackokoroup.com and again, we'd love to get your feedback and we'd love to encourage everyone to subscribe to the podcast so that you can be notified when future episodes are released. Uh, we look forward to, uh, the next episode and we look forward to getting your suggestions and feedback on this episode. Thanks for listening and we look forward to speaking with you again on future episodes.