From Homeless at 15 to IPO at 30 - Sean Osborn - CFR #817

Speaker A: Everything we do as human beings is based on triggers and associations.

Speaker B: Today's guest went from homeless at 15 to taking a company public at the age of 30 and then spent years trying to figure out how he actually did it. He's the founder of Thinking Big Coaching, author of his upcoming UOS book, you, Operating System. Today he's breaking down the exact six step framework that rewired his belief in what he was actually capable of building

Speaker C: and the reason that you shouldn't fake it till you make it, but act as if you are already successful and why the money is in the list. Sean dives into how mindset is everything in this episode.

Speaker A: Everything is a trigger for you, right? Every color you see, every picture, the stuff behind me. How do you change the association that when you're triggered with something that you run a different program? And the problem that most of us have is those programs are put into us by the age of seven.

Speaker B: Today's guest is Sean Osborne.

Speaker C: Welcome back to another episode of ClickFunnels Radio. And joined with us today is the one and only Sean Osborne. As you heard, Sean, the craziest part about your story is like this 15 year gap, okay, that goes from you being homeless at 15 to like selling a company at 30 and not even realizing how that happened. But take us back to this homeless. Like you're 15, you're living on the streets. How did you get out of that?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a, uh, that, that is a funny, uh, not necessarily funny, but it's a fun story. It's uh, uh, it basically came about because I just made some really bad decisions as a kid. Like I, I got with the wrong people. I started doing drugs, I started uh, you know, doing things that I should not do. Was uh, in jail at 15. And uh, that's when my parents said, you know what, uh, yeah, my parents said, yeah, uh, we're volunteering you to leave, uh, leave home. And uh, said, you know, it's uh, we can no longer deal with you, uh, it's time for you to go. And so at 15 I found myself, literally went to a new state. I was in Santa Fe, grew up in Santa Fe at the time and uh, moved to Omaha, Nebraska now.

Speaker B: Oh, that's a move.

Speaker A: That's a move. And it looked like it was a good place until I got there. No offense to anybody that's from Omaha, but let me tell you, it is extremely hot in the summer and extremely cold in the wintertime. And that is not the best place to not have a house.

Speaker C: This is not like homeless in Hawaii, you know.

Speaker A: That would have been awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that would have been awesome. So I found myself there and uh, actually the best move of my life, I mean it was, actually changed everything and I, for a long time I blamed my parents for like the stuff that happens. Like they didn't care. They like how could you let your kid just go? And uh, I can tell you now that it was probably the hardest decision that they've ever made. Mhm. And so I, I truly, truly uh, thank them for that. So. And that really changed, uh, you know, changed the trajectory of my life. I ended up in Omaha, uh, forced to kind of do things, uh, you know, work, you know, in restaurants, do you know, wait tables. Not wait tables. I was too young for that. So I was washing dishes, bussing tables and uh, at 16 I met my, my uh, then girlfriend Amy. And uh, while I was still pretty much homeless, got her pregnant. And uh, if you think about that, I was a ninth grade dropout, uh, didn't know much, was living on my own, trying to, couldn't even support myself really. Uh, and then having a kid. And uh, that's, it was that exact moment that like boom. That, that one moment when she said she was pregnant. Sorry about that. Uh, still, you can tell it's still uh, you can still still pretty fresh. And uh, that exact moment is what said john, you better get your in gear. It's like it's time to, you know, you can't, no, no longer screw around. And uh, it's time to uh, uh, get things done and to turn things around and to turn your life around. And it was literally from that moment on, so literally from, from that moment at 15, uh, and at 30, I was taking my first company public, you know, in the, in meetings with Goldman Sachs and uh, Jones Day. And I remember sitting there thinking what the hell happened? You know, I'm looking at these, these lawyers from the biggest law firm in the country, Goldman Sachs was you know, representing us. And I'm thinking if these people only knew they would not be taking me public. Like they don't understand. I'm just a ninth grade dropout. I don't know what did they, you know, so that was the point that uh, you know, and in those 15 years, uh, you know, I didn't really understand what I'd done.

Speaker C: Can I back up though? Because I think people maybe need to hear this a little bit more of some people. Total line, okay. And they're okay, I'm going to finish college, I'm going to be a grade, uh, a student and then I'm going to go and go to college. I'm going to pick my career and I'm just going to tow the line. Unfortunately. Well, or fortunately, a lot of us entrepreneurs don't fit that mold. Can't sit in the classroom, aren't gonna listen, or the kid that you know, might act out in class. And so I'm just saying this because if you're listening to this and you're like, wait a minute, you can raise your hand and say, I'm like you, Sean. Do you think that that added to it, like you're just wired more like an entrepreneur and you had to like say I'm gonna go figure out, figure it out on my own. Like I don't fit this mold.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, well I think I was forced into that mentality, uh, young just because of this. And I think that's maybe it was the mold that I was given. Maybe it's, maybe that's how I truly am regardless of what my, my background was. But I was forced to do what I like. I was forced to have that figured, uh, out attitude because again, I had no education, I had no money, I had, you know, very, you know, not, not a lot of people want to hire a 15 year old dropout to, to do anything. And so I had to go and figure out, okay with what I have. I've got to be an entrepreneur and be able to sell myself. I've got to be able to do what I can to figure uh, things out, like come up with things that other people aren't doing, do things. And that's literally my entire career has been, has been that since that time. And so back then, so I'm going to date myself. But this was back in the 80s and late uh, 80s, mid-80s, mid-80s and computers were just coming out. Like nobody had home computers, nobody had any of this stuff. And one of the things that I recognized was these companies would hire people for computer stuff. You didn't have to have a degree. You didn't have to, they didn't ask for. Right. They just said, come in and help me set these damn computers up. Right. So it's like way in. Yeah, that's my way in. Because they're not going to look at my past. I don't need to have a degree. You do now, but like you don't need to have a degree, you don't need to have any of this. They're just going to bring you in because you're a Hired gun. You're an SME for computers that nobody else knows yet. It's like, so that's. So I've been in technology since the, you know, since the 80s. You know, that's been my whole path is technology. But I chose that, or it chose me because of the situation I was in. And that was the only avenue that I saw that could get me to what I saw other people having that I didn't have. You know, I remember being in. In, you know, waiting table or, uh, busing tables, you know, back at 15, and looking around the restaurant and thinking, these people think different than I do. They know something that I don't know. Not. It's not that they're better than me. I never thought, oh, this person's better than me. But I thought I would literally sit back in kind of the dark room and look out and say, they're. They're experiencing life different than I'm experiencing life. Why is that? And, uh, so that's so literally, that is what drives, you know, last 15 years, I've been all on mindset, all on how we think, the way we think, why we think, the way we think. And it all came back from, you know, those early times of being forced to, uh, to look at that.

Speaker B: Well, talking about how we think. Sean, I have just something ringing in my brain right now, and if I don't ask you, it'll consume me. The entire podcast, you said a really interesting statement there, which when you were getting IPO'd or going public, you said, if these people only knew. I'm a ninth grade dropout. I know nothing. I totally see how back then you might think that. But, Sean, today, now, do you think that your accolades or degrees you get from schools have anything to do with your person, your potential, or what you are to accomplish in life?

Speaker A: Yeah. And so I've grown a lot since then. And. And part of it was, you know, back then, I had no personal development, uh, nothing of that nature. So I didn't understand. All I knew is I just did it. Like, people would literally come to me after I sold my company and they would say, how do you do that? That's not what you do. I'm like, yeah, that's what you do. You just. I don't know, I just did it. That's all you do. It's like any. If I can do it, anybody can do it. You just do it. And I didn't understand really how big, big that was and that it wasn't something that everybody just did. But I think I was. And I. I say this, and it's kind of jokingly, but I think I was just too stupid to fail. I didn't know back then that you couldn't do those things. Like. Like, I remember in. I. So I started the company in Dallas, Texas, and I would literally go into what.

Speaker B: What was the company, Sean?

Speaker A: Internet company. So I helped start, uh. Again, I'm a date myself. But before cable modems and BE all. Before all this stuff, uh, there was dsl.

Speaker B: Uh.

Speaker A: Uh, dsl. I helped develop and start DSL technology. So I worked with, like, Southwestern Bell, which is Now, I think AT&T and GTE, which is now Verizon. And so I worked with them and I actually beat them at their own game. And they were. Those were two of the companies trying to acquire us. Because I was beating them at their own game of the dsl. I was, uh, able to roll that out, uh, and help them do that. But again, it all came from my technology background and just seeing what other people were like, I can take things and put them together that. The way no one else has puts them together. So dsl, there was nothing new back then that. That technology for DSL was like 15 years old. And I was doing it in for businesses for different things. And that's when I had the idea, well, what if I did the same thing, but I did it for people at home and I did it for small businesses that couldn't afford T1 and T3 lines. So that was the whole. So I didn't invent anything. I was. I put technologies that were already out there, and I married them up in a way that nobody had married them up in a way yet. Can I back up, though?

Speaker C: Because I think this is a fascinating story and I wanna get into it, but that's a big jump from I'm homeless, you know, in jail or whatever, to, hey, this is where I'm setting things up. When did you kind of have this moment where you're like, okay, you find out that you're pregnant and everything else, and now I've gotta change things. But when did you think, like, okay, I'm gonna start thinking differently? I know that thinking grow rich is a big part of what you do, Sean. Like, and I think there was a moment where you're reading this book and had this epiphany. Will you take us there?

Speaker A: Yeah. So here's the thing. I never saw or heard of thinking of rich until after I had sold my company.

Speaker C: Oh, was that right?

Speaker A: Yes. So it's like I had never had any, I, I had never had any personal. I had never even read a book. Seriously. I don't think I'd ever even read a book before. And what got you the telecom stuff then?

Speaker C: Because if thinking grow rich came later.

Speaker A: Yeah, it came later. So again I just, I saw that that was my only opportunity to get, get a job above being a busboy. And I saw, so I, I, I met people and, and, and stuff and like they would have a computer and I'm like, oh, I don't know. But so I, something said to me, Sean, go look at these, this computer stuff because that's going to be, that's going to be your way out of where you are. So that got me into computers and then obviously you, you know, so then I would go into, you know, my first jobs was, you know, maybe a, a desktop type person or helping people deploy, you know, desktops. Again, this is the early stages of computers where this is.

Speaker C: Or trail days.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, this is, this is back, way back OG stuff.

Speaker C: And uh, so I'm talking about Oregon Trail, the game. Not that you were actual pioneer, Sean.

Speaker A: I mean in some ways, no, technically he is.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it was the beginning of, of, of computers back then, especially for companies and obviously home. Uh, so uh, that's, I just, there's something that just told me, Sean, go in this direction. I never, it was never, uh, an aha. It was like this is, this is my next step to get me past being a busboy or a dishwasher. And that led to a low paying, you know, low paying job. And then that led to, and then eventually again it, it went from building. I actually started building computers back then, like nobody. This is before, you know, Dell. This is before, you know, all these companies started doing computer. So I started building computers with parts and so mostly Apples then, huh? Uh, this was actually, Well, I would, I think this was actually probably after Apple, like.

Speaker C: So this is like compatibles. You know, you're trying to do all these other.

Speaker A: Yep, okay. Yep. So this was after, you know, the, the Macintosh or Lisa or whatever it was, uh, was called. But uh, uh, yeah, before the main, before any type of mainstream computers were available to companies and to uh, especially home. You know, obviously nothing, nobody had, nobody had them. So it wasn't, it wasn't like an aha moment. It was just a something that you knew that I knew inside that this, this could be a way out of, of where I was and to pursue it. And it just one thing led to another. Yes. And so it just kept getting bigger. So within I, you know, building computers and then running computers and then running computer, uh, you know, running it, uh, departments for companies and uh, you know, just getting bigger and bigger, becoming, uh, you know, more and more within that same industry until, you know, I obviously quit, uh, did my own entrepreneur stuff, built my own company and took it, uh, you know, took it public.

Speaker B: I know your journey fairly well from researching, and you're a big part of our community, so I know your journey pretty well. I'm already seeing a pattern that I want to identify for all of our listeners. You leverage existing technologies, assets and resources and repackage them to fit the needs and problems that customers are having. And you've been doing this for a long time. So I really want to take some time and make sure we get to tactics on how you do and employ these same strategies that have worked for you forever and still work today. But I also really want to, I want people to know your story because I think it's just so cool and very unique. One thing not unique so far that I've heard is the same thing we hear on every episode of this podcast, which is do you just did. And you did so unabashedly, whether it's out of ignorance or regardless of the reason you just did, you went, baby, and you go, baby, go. Um, so that is just entrepreneurialism. That is just business ownership. But as your story goes, 15, homeless, 16 becoming a father. Now I have to go and do. So you went, gone and did abashedly built a strong, successful company, exited that company, and then didn't you go to work for somebody else after that?

Speaker A: Yeah. So, uh. Okay, I know. Okay, this is going to be some funny stories here. Okay, so in my company, I had hired my. So by the way, the girl that I got pregnant in Omaha, she's now my wife. We've been married 40 something years. My son is 40, 41, 42 years old now. So now he is a nuclear physicist. So completely opposite of, of his dad.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Anyways, so as we were going public, or as we were looking at going public, there's certain things that they want you to do. Like they, you have to have certain things in order. Obviously your books need to be in order, you need to have. All your employees need to be in order. You have to follow a, you know, a, a schedule of like performance appraisals and doing all this thing. So I had the, the wonderful idea of giving my wife a performance appraisal, an annual, because she was working with me so she got her annual pa. It was a needs improvement.

Speaker C: This sounds dangerous, Sean.

Speaker A: And it was at that exact day that she quit. And she says, I will never ever work for you again. And she's kept her word. She's honestly kept her word. She's never worked with me uh, a day since. Uh, but once we sold the company, two things happened. One, I still had really bad imposter syndrome, remember? I hadn't got in, gotten into uh, any type of personal uh, development. And uh, uh, I thought I was just a fraud, that I was just lucky, you know, I was at the right place at the right time. I didn't know that what I'd done with there was a method to it, you know, I had no idea. All I knew is it happened, uh, we sold it. And uh, so she said, if you ever start another company again, I'm gone. Those were her exact words. I'm gone. If you do this, if you do this. One more. Because it was tough. I mean it was four years of non stop shit for a company like that to go from there to, you know, going public. It's like it was, it was 20 hour days for years and, and uh, so it was very tough. And I understand. So I understand. I said, okay, I'll. In my mind I was like, I'll give it three years or so. So I started uh, running uh, IT for Chevron in Houston. So we moved to Houston and I thought, okay, I'll run it for Chevron for a few years. I'll get back out and do my own thing. During that course, uh, so managing it, I had other leaders underneath me and I always wanted to, I've got to get, I've got to become a better leader to have them lead better and so forth. I started getting into you know, personal uh, development a little bit, but it all came from. My wife was doing an mlm, like a multi level marketing thing with one of her friends.

Speaker C: And she's got the entrepreneur itch too.

Speaker A: No, she hated it, but okay, all right.

Speaker C: She's just like, she was doing it I'm doing for my friend. Yeah, okay.

Speaker A: Yeah, she was doing it with her friend and we were on a road trip and I was just a passenger in the car and they had to listen to their personal development crap on the, on the, you know, on the radio or on their, their cd. And I'm sitting there listening to this personal development and I'm thinking, huh, huh, that's interesting. Of course I didn't want to admit it to them, but I was like, hey, this, there's, there might be something to this. And that literally started an entire movement into getting into, into personal development and getting into like Think and Grow Rich. And it's. Once I got into Think and Grow Rich, that's. That book is what gave me the insight of holy shit. What I did back then at 15, I can trace that through Think and Grow Rich. I did all of the things that Think and Grow Rich talks about. I just didn't know what the hell I was doing. I didn't. Again, all the people that he interviewed, they, they didn't follow thin courage. They did their, they did their thing. And it was at that moment I thought, holy cow, I wasn't lucky. I wasn't a fraud. Uh, it wasn't, uh, you know, I followed a process that I had no idea that I was following. And that's one reason why I'm so big into Think and Grow Rich is like, God, I wish I would have had that so many years before that to just understand what the things that I was doing.

Speaker B: Do you think having read Think and Grow Rich early would have actually helped or hindered you?

Speaker A: I think it would have helped at a, uh, at a certain point. Like, I think if I would have read it early when I was developing my company, I might not have understood. You may not have been doing it, I might not have been ready for it. I might not have understood it and I might have just kind of put it away and said, you know, that's just, you know, that's, that's woo woo crap. That's shit. I don't want to, you know, that's, you know, not me. Uh, had I read it earlier, either towards the end of the company or after I sold the company, I think it would have helped me a great deal because I didn't read them for probably five or six years after I sold the company. And it was like. So those five years was, you know, I was just lucky. And you know, people would ask how you do that. I wouldn't even tell people what I did because it was so people uh, would like, you know, they would either say, oh, that's bullshit, or, or uh, you know, they just don't. It just didn't make sense to anybody. And so it's like I wouldn't even tell people that I started a company or did anything. And uh, uh, it just um. Yeah. So I think Think and Grow Rich is the, the book that helped me unwrap what I did and say, oh, I can do it again.

Speaker C: So, yeah, you Reverse engineered it. You just went back and said, hold on, there's a framework here that I did. And it wasn't accident. It was something you naturally did, but nevertheless, it's still a framework.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And again, the, you know, Napoleon Hill didn't invent anything. He just, you know, again, he was a thought leader. He went and interviewed a whole bunch of successful people and said, here's what all of them seem to be doing. And so none of them used, obviously, thinker rich to get successful at whatever it is they did. Uh, so, yeah, it's an absolute, uh, framework. It's a law. It's, uh, like if you do those things and become those things, you will absolutely be successful. Whatever it is that you consider success. It's not money. Uh, it could be whatever you, uh, relationships, uh, you know, help. Uh. I've used the same process of thinking rich on my health. I've used it, uh, you know, multiple ways. So it's like those. Those things, you know, people go through things in life and they're more than willing to share them. It's like Russell's books, the secrets, you know, the expert stuff. It's like those things are blood, sweat and tears that if someone actually sits down and goes through that and embodies it. I don't want to say read it. I want to say embodies those things. Those, those works of, uh, uh, they will absolutely work. I mean, it's.

Speaker C: You said the funny thing to understand it's a shortcut. They're gonna. That's what I love about frameworks is like, yeah, a smart person learns from their own mistakes. Right. A smarter person learns from other people's mistakes.

Speaker A: You want to know another smart way?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Tell people. Tell people what to do and see how it works for them.

Speaker C: Oh, there you go. You go. Try it. I think there might be some minds out here in this field, but. But you go first.

Speaker A: Go try this and let me know how it works out.

Speaker C: I'll follow you.

Speaker B: So you read Think and Grow Rich. You're working for Chevron, right? You just run an IT for Chevron. Wife doesn't want you to go back into entrepreneurialism. You end up hearing a little bit about personal development through her own entrepreneurial endeavors. You're like, oh, this is cool. Get, Think and Grow Rich. It changes everything. Then what?

Speaker A: So then I started really getting into personal development. Much, uh, more so than just a, you know, just, you know, thinking are rich. I started getting into stuff like, uh, uh, even, uh. Oh, God, John Maxwell, because of Leadership, you know, thought leadership for leaders. So it's like I started getting into that because of you, uh, know, I had leaders underneath me that I wanted them to be better leaders. And, and so it was like what was still personal development, right? It's still personal development. And it finger rich had such a big impact for me that I actually started teaching Think and grow Rich stuff. Like I would do workshops, I would do webinars, I would do various things not necessarily for the money. It was more for uh, more for giving back. It's like this helped, this had such a big impact on me. Uh, let me spread the word, you know, like let me, you know, let me talk about it, let me try uh, to uh, enlighten other people on this framework, this, these laws of, of success. And again, it doesn't matter if it's money, if it's relationships, if it doesn't matter, uh, it will help you navigate uh, all of that. And so I started doing that and that was the start of my community. You asked earlier, Chris, on list building. Most of my early list, I'd say the first hundred thousand people were uh, from Think and Grow Rich type of uh, opt ins to get into my webinars, my workshops.

Speaker C: You say that so casually, Sean. And I've watched you win these events and everything else. I mean we were hanging out at OfferLab and we'll get into all that. But you're like, oh my first hundred thousand. Like dude, you got a list that's like 300,000 plus. Like this is crazy. And I don't think enough entrepreneurs are diving into this. So you are doing this um, you know, think uh, and grow rich mentality and this coaching. Meanwhile though, you're filling this pipeline that you don't even, I don't think, know at that point that you're going to be able to deploy and use later and become just an amazing affiliate. Affiliate too, which we'll get into. But were you intentionally building this list, saying okay, I know we're gonna do this or that list just kind of happened?

Speaker A: No, I purposely built that list. But, but here's uh, so here's, yeah, here's the thing. So I, I understand computers, right? I'm, I know back ends, I know methodologies, I know what people are doing. I know exactly what Zuckerberg was doing. And it's like I understood in my own point, if I want to get people to my stuff, to my events, I can either. And again, I had no idea what list building was. I had no idea what any of this Stuff was. I'm like, but if I, if I can control that, it's not going to cost me as much money to get them into my, into my workshops and stuff.

Speaker C: You don't got to buy it.

Speaker A: I own it, right? So I was like, so why don't I start building? And again, I understood algorithms. It's like, I look at, you know, Facebook, uh, and I'm like, I completely understand what they're doing. You know, his job is to keep eyes on his platform and to make money. Simple, right? Anything you do on their platform that either pulls eyes or pulls money, they're going to want a piece of it. It's just simple. And the algorithm just proves that out, right? That's, again, that's their business model. And it's. I fault him none. It's like that's what he, you know, that's, that's what he does. But I understood that if I had my own Facebook, if I had my own platform, which at the time was just, okay, I'm just going to start collecting emails and that, that, that's my platform. That's, that is my Facebook, because I can go to that platform, that platform anytime I want and send out an offer, send out an engagement. And part of, I think part of, um, the way I did list was a little bit different was I truly treated my list like when I teach this like a bank account, it's like a savings account. I can never withdraw more than I put in, so I have to add more value before I withdraw anything and ask for an ask, say, hey, I want you to do this workshop. So I've got to. So I treated it almost like a community, even though it was an email list. And so I, I probably spent six months just uh, before I even made my first offer to my list. Like it was just value, value, value.

Speaker C: Uh, and then Traffic Secrets framework.

Speaker A: At this point, I had no idea of anything. So I had no idea.

Speaker C: No, inherently, like, this seems like a good idea.

Speaker A: That's awesome. But, but I understand technology and it's like, so I understand what they're doing and it's, you know, how I can reverse engineer. Like, basically what I was doing is reverse engineering what, uh, what Zuckerberg was doing and pull it in for, you know, pull it in for myself, for me, not for.

Speaker C: Hm. Him.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, why, why pay him for ads every time I want someone to see my stuff when I can just get their name and send it whenever I want.

Speaker C: Well, how are you getting the name though? So Are you putting out, like lead grabs or something? You're just doing like, yeah, m. I'm

Speaker B: foaming at the mouth for this. What. What was like, how'd you get the first hundred thousand?

Speaker A: So, Lot of different things, but. So this was. God, this was. I want to say 26. I can't remember what year it was, but I'm also, uh, got certified with Tony Robbins. And one of the things that I can do as a certified Tony Robbins coach was I could do his six human needs test. Right. That's one of the things I was. And that's. Honestly, that's the whole reason I went to get certified, so I could use his. I could borrow from his authority. So smart to do things. So I built a completely going, yep, I, I built a completely automated, uh, quiz that they came in, they answered some questions and said, this is your, you know, this is your two highest needs. Uh, here's what, here's how it could benefit you. But here's your, here's your blind spots. Here's what you need to look out for. Completely automated. I had. There was no me involved in that.

Speaker C: Which people are going to 100% come in and go, yeah, I'll give you my email address. Look at all the value this guy is giving me. And now the thing that everybody needs to understand is, okay, that small transaction of value that Sean's giving him for exchange for the email address. And I know a lot of people like Kris, we know this list building thing, but for a lot of people you don't like now, Sean has that name forever and his job as a community, et cetera. He's nurturing that. He's not just letting that go. He's actually keeping on his list. He's doing probably Seinfeld or soap opera stuff. Probably didn't even know that he was doing it, but he's doing it right.

Speaker A: And what's, what's funny is. So we'll jump, we'll go back, but we'll jump ahead a little bit. So after I met Russell and I, you know, did the series, we'll go back to that. But I was in a small mastermind with him. Like it was like eight of us, I think, and asking questions and. And he said a few things to me that were like, what are you talking about? Like, he would say, well, how are you doing? Like what we're doing? How are you doing? And he said something to me and he goes, well, you need a, uh, like, it's cost me X to get these now he's like you need to do a self liquidating funnel. I'm. What the f. Are you talking about? Self liquidating funnel? And he explained it to me and I'm like, holy crap. How, how did I not see this? How did I not understand? And that, and that's really what, what took me into the, the clickfunnels era. So here, here's the problem that I have. This is a personal problem that I have. I've been in technology a long time, so when I see something pop up again. I was in technology before Russell started, you know, click funnels. Russell and Todd sort of click funnels. But when I see things pop up, I have the problem of thinking, well, I'm a tech guy. That's just a, that's, that's just a landing page. He's calling it a funnel. It's just a landing page. So I never really paid much, much attention to it, which is Right.

Speaker C: But considering that it's also saying, okay, this is. I'm going to make this a blue ocean. I'm going to create a new opportunity. Landing page or not just everybody notice what he's doing there. Like, it's still a new opportunity. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's Uber. It's not a tax anymore. Yeah. I had no idea the, the depth and the width of what clickfunnels actually did because of my own blind spots, thinking I already know everything. I'm, um, I've been in it longer than most people. I know everything.

Speaker C: It's like until I started talking company, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. Until I talked to him, I'm like, oh, I don't know anything about this. So before, before doing any of that, I had never done an affiliate. I had never done all. My entire list was built for me to be able to communicate my stuff to, to my community. That's 100% never even thought about affiliates. And so we'll get into this a little bit. But. So my first working with Russell was when he introduced Secrets of Success. I think that was what, maybe three years ago he launched Secrets of Success. And one of my friends who knows I'm huge into, uh, into Napoleon Hill, called me or sent me an email, said, you've got to get into this thing with Russell. He's doing the Secrets of Success. I'm thinking, no, I'm not interested. Just, you know, go, go Russell's name

Speaker C: at that time, or that's your first intro.

Speaker B: I knew, I knew.

Speaker A: No, I knew Russell from just from being a tech person. Right. But I never. And I knew he started click Funnels But I didn't know really what clickfunnels was. I had gone up and, and when any new tech comes out I normally, because I'm just uh, the guy who likes to test, you know, test stuff. I would go up, yeah, I went up and did some things on, on click funnels early, early on I think just did some things just okay, I understand the platform a little bit and, and moved on. So I knew who he was. And I'm out in the middle of the GNC with one of my best friends. We did a guys, we did a guy's week, went to Turkey, uh, and then took uh, you're on a boat in the Mediterranean. Boat in the Mediterranean, uh, going between Greece and Turkey. And he, and he sends me another one. I think it was like maybe five or six days before that Secrets of Success had ended. And now you understand that these uh, affiliates, they'll go for a couple weeks like you, you have a lead time and it's like, so this is like the last four days.

Speaker C: Yeah. You're warming up your list and everything else. There's a lot that goes into this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You've done none of that.

Speaker A: Yeah, oh, I've done none of that with this. And he, he got back with me again, I'm out there and he was like, I think I was in Ikonos or ok, I can't remember which guy was. But he uh, he goes, you have to do this. And I said okay, to shut you up, I'm just going to send out an email. So I crafted, I didn't know that there were swipe files. I had no idea of any of that stuff. Crafted an email, sent it to my list, forgot about it and come get back. And I got second in that entire.

Speaker C: Hold on. How many people are on your list at this point? We talked about a hundred thousand. Are we up to 300,000 at that point?

Speaker A: Uh, I probably sent it out. Well I only send it to part of my list. So I, I, I am one person. I segment the crap out of my list. I know smart what you came where you came in on what you do. So in other words I have, so I send it out to all of my think and grow rich list which at the time I think just that alone was probably 85 or 90,000 people

Speaker C: but hyper like focused on that particular thing. This is resonating.

Speaker A: Yes, yes. So sent that out, uh, got second place in, in that and it was at that time I thought who took first?

Speaker C: Who's who, who's making you mad who took first?

Speaker B: Doug. Doug.

Speaker C: Oh, is that Doug Fountain guy? All right, fair enough. I had. I had to ask. I knew it was no.

Speaker A: And now me and Doug are friends. Like, we've done, uh, of course, quite a few things.

Speaker C: How can you not be friends with Doug?

Speaker A: Uh, so got second. And what's funny, so this is, what, maybe three years ago, I am still getting money every month from Secrets of Success from that affiliate. Still to this day, I still get a couple grand in my account every month from that, uh, from that one single launch. And one of my problems back then was like, I am. I. I've got a big list, but I can only do so much stuff. It's like. So I was doing maybe two launches a year, and it's like, I just can't do much. And after this, that's what said. Oh, hold on. There is something to this whole affiliate thing. This isn't just a. I had the. The again. It was wrong. But I always thought affiliates. Uh, that's icky. Uh, you know, I'm not gonna go. I'm not gonna go hawk stickers for somebody.

Speaker C: You don't want to dance on TikTok, Sean, come on.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I love to dance on TikTok, but selling stickers? No.

Speaker C: Okay, fair enough.

Speaker A: So I, you know, so I. I had a bad taste in my mouth. I didn't understand what aff. I always thought it was just the bro marketers. I'm selling stickers this week. Next week, I'm going to sell you some, uh, you know, some. Some. Something to get, you know, get things. Protein powder or something.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker A: So I had a bad taste in my mouth and thought after this, I. Like, hold on. But if I can partner with people that are in alignment with. With my community, then it is an absolute win. Win. And so that's when I started doing affiliate stuff. So now half the stuff I do is affiliate, uh, affiliate work.

Speaker C: So half is coaching, half is affiliate.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, coaching or my. My programs. Yeah.

Speaker C: So, okay, so that. That Secrets of Success launch was. You get into it. But I know for a fact, listen, because you and I have worked together before, that you were getting, like, your average cart value in another one of these contests was so far above and beyond, like eight or nine times. Like what everybody else's was.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: First off, I want to know what. Which, uh. Which contest was that? Which offer was it?

Speaker A: I. It. So it wasn't one of Russell's. Uh, but it was. It was in the same. Let's just say it's in the Same Russell's, Same group. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Of people. Uh, but someone that I don't necessarily respect and I don't want to promote their. Their stuff. But I did this. So there's one reason and one reason only. I did this launch. It was a huge launch.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: It was very big. And there was a lot of big names that were doing affiliates. I'm talking about people who were. Who have, like, uh, Their, uh. What? Like, not followers. They're, uh, uh, influencers. Right. So we. There was people on there that are big names that have 15, 20 million people that follow them. Like these people on their. Well, on their social media. Yeah. And my whole thing is, I could give a crap If I've got 10 million people on that are following me if they don't ever buy anything. Like, it does me absolutely no good for them to follow me if I don't have them on my list. My number one thing is get on my list. Follow me. Get on my list. It's like, that's the only thing I care about.

Speaker C: Everybody, every good marketing needs to know this, because here's what happens. You have one thing that happens, and you're like, okay, I grew my list. And then you're gonna go try to, like, get them to convert, and then you're not filling that pipeline. Like, Coach Vince and I talk about this all the time. Is like, that list has to constantly be growing. For sure.

Speaker A: Yep. Growing and engaging. Both engaging.

Speaker C: Yes. Because if not, then you lose them, right?

Speaker A: Yep. Yep. If you don't add value, you can't get value back again. It's like a bank account. You have to. You have to add more value than you ask. Like, if you go. If you go to your savings account or your bank and you try to withdraw more than you put in, they're going to laugh at you. You. Right. Uh, same. Same thing.

Speaker B: Well, but, Sean, I don't get a pie chart with blue and red colors on it to let me know, like, when I've delivered enough value to my list.

Speaker A: So how do you know just by how much I. If I spend four weeks of adding value to them, I've earned the right to ask for a workshop. Like, come join my webinar.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So. And I rarely ever sell to my list. I invite people on my list to do things that then sell.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So rarely, rarely do I sell directly to the list. So I add value. Add value. Oh, uh, and by the way, we're doing this thing. Come on up.

Speaker C: Uh, which is a value add as well. It's not just buy my thing. Buy my thing, buy my thing. People unsubscribe immediately.

Speaker A: Yeah. And before I even knew what like webinars were. And what's funny is. So I had a couple friends that helped me out to help moderate my first webinar. I had. I sent it out to a portion of my list. I had 2500 people register and I was on. This was Zoom. Like, I think this is prior to, uh, to Covid. So zoom really wasn't that good yet. I mean it was still. And I had uh, I think four or five hundred people show up live and I.

Speaker C: Which is insane. Come on, that's great.

Speaker A: Oh, especially nowadays. Nowadays it's getting hard. But this is like my first one. I'm like, how the hell do I do this? Like, I'm. I'm a one man show and I've got 400 people on chats blowing up,

Speaker C: asking you all sorts of questions.

Speaker A: Chat. I had someone streaking. I'm like, how do I. Oh my God. I had some old lady walking around with her phone naked and like, uh,

Speaker C: you gotta be kidding. I make a joke. You probably heard this on Offer Lab or like whenever I emcee or whatever, I'm always like, okay, cameras on and clothes on. But in opposite order. Clothes on first, then cameras on. Because we've seen some full moons and everything else.

Speaker A: It's wild.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I had no, like moderator. Like, what am I?

Speaker B: What.

Speaker A: I had no way of controlling it. So, uh, I've learned a lot since then. But, uh, yeah, so going back to like the affiliate launch. So I, I did this launch and my whole.

Speaker C: Yeah, I want to hear how that average cart value is so much higher.

Speaker A: Yeah. So my whole reason for doing that launch was to, uh, my list building course. Right. I had a course that was, you know, list building. And the whole, the whole reason I did that affiliate was to show and with numbers, I've got the proof that my list outperformed people with 10, 20 million people followers. And these are big names, people that you and I and everyone listening, if I said their name, would know exactly who that person is. Uh, because of their, their very big influencers, I beat every single one of them. I think I got. I didn't even. What's funny is I didn't even promote the last week, which is the big time to promote. And still, uh, I was in first and came in like third, uh, overall.

Speaker C: Listen, you talked about Doug, right? Doug. Doug at the time too. He didn't have a, a huge list. I mean, I've, I've interviewed him and he had like 5,6000 people on a list. But they're crazy engaged. Like they're totally in it. So in that launch did you segment, talk to us a little bit about segmenting this list? Like okay, first one that we did, Secrets of Success. All right, I know these are all Napoleon Hill guys. Did you go look at your list? And I love that he said a pie chart. I know Dante, you were talking about this but like you go look at your list, you're like, okay, that's the segmented group that I'm going to send to. Which is this 50,000 or 80,000. Do you do that again? Do you do that every time?

Speaker A: Every time? I never send out one email to my entire list. Now there are a lot alike but like I sent this one strictly to people who have engaged in entrepreneur type stuff like not think or grow rich. Like these were entrepreneur people who had,

Speaker B: make money online kind of people.

Speaker A: So uh, did that. And so what I'd done is I understood now after doing some of these launches with Russell and doing these things like oh, so people actually add their own little bonuses on top of things. And like so I never knew, I didn't even know the game. It's like so, so now understood the game a little bit. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this, send it out to uh, to my, my, you know, a portion of my list, the uh, entrepreneurs and said okay, uh, we're doing this, this launch and if you sign up, uh, you know I'm gonna give you uh, you know, this course. Like I threw in my bonus of this course. Uh, but you have to be vip, right? So it's like if you sign up vip, then you're gonna get access to uh, to my course as, as well just, just for signing up for vip. And obviously there those are upsells again. I'd never done any upsells. Like before I met Russell I had a flat page. You take the offer, you don't buy

Speaker C: it or you don't try to figure out the self liquidating offer. You're like, this is now liquidating?

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm losing a lot of money by not doing these upsells and down sells. And it's like I'd never done any of those things. So anyways I do this and my list wanted that course enough to where I think it was like I don't know, maybe a $20, like a $20, you know, VIP or I don't 49 VIP. I'm not sure what it was, but my average cart value for this free event. Because, uh, you could go up there and sign up for the event for free. Like, just like Russell does. Like, you know, then you've got your upsells, your VIPs and that stuff. My average cart value for that was around $9. And I remember I got a text back from them saying, what the hell are you doing? Your average cart value is 9 ours, which is. He's a big name. Mine is $1.77, and other affiliates are a little lower than that. And I'm like, just sending it to my list, but. And it was. So here's the thing I had heard Russell say. He's always said this. The person who can spend the most money to acquire a customer wins. And my. I didn't. I did not understand that at all. And my initial thought when he says that is like, well, no, no, shit. If I can spend more money, then of course I'm gonna get more customers. I didn't understand until that text that I got from them that said, oh, hold on, I can go and spend $9. Again. I didn't do it with any ads, but if I wanted to, I could go spend $9 per acquisition, where they can only spend $1.77 per acquisition. I'm like, that's how you spend more money to acquire a customer. It's not just spend more money, obviously, if you spend a, uh, billion dollars. And it's like, oh. And it was. It literally. It was. It wasn't until that text came in, it was like, this is what Russell means by whoever can spend the most money. It's not whoever can spend the most money. It's whoever can spend the most money at a level without losing money wins. Correct. So I could spend $9, uh, on ads, uh, if I wanted to, and still break even for a free event. Again, that's. The money's on the back side, right? The money's never on the bent. The money's not, uh, on the vip. That's just to, uh, hopefully get you even for the, you know, if you're good for the event. The money's on the backside. I'm like, oh, man. I could literally going back, I probably would put 20, $30,000 in ads and just crushed them completely. Uh, uh. But again, I was just doing only my list. I didn't do any ads for that. Very little ad spin.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's awesome. Wow.

Speaker B: And it's like another thing Russell said. All the time losers focus on the front End winners focus on the back end. Right. Just applying the things that you learn. So you. Tactically though, what is like, what does that look like? What, what was the funnel that you were running them to? And how did you get $9 where nobody else could?

Speaker A: So my funnel was just. So I took them into. And I never knew this. A bridge page. I'm like, what the hell's a bridge page? What are you talking about? I would just send them. So, uh, send them to a bridge page that actually had my offer in addition to it. So it was like if you sign up vip, uh, you get, you know, obviously the thing, but then you're also going to get access, uh, to, to this course. I was offering free access to the course. It's yours for life. Uh, just sign up for bip, which was, you know, $49, whatever. And the course was like $197 course. Uh, but again, I know that I would rather give that course as a upsell to get them into this and make all the money in the back end. Again, that's, that's where the, where the money is. Yep. And I learned, obviously learned that from, from Russell as well that uh, but that's how I got the cart by you so high. My, my little gift for people signing up was at a value that was worth them paying 49 for the upsell.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Right. So it was worth it. So that's what. So I had, you know, 25% of the people who opted in actually take the upsell for the vip. Uh, where the others did not. They just said, hey, here's the, here's the link. And that's why they all averaged like A$77 is because they didn't have anything else. I already had an upsell. I already had an upsell built in for them going into it, which drove the cart value higher.

Speaker B: Yeah, you just attached one of your existing things as a bonus to them going vip and really you laid out the path that they should take.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You, you, you didn't just send them to a page. You said you should get vip. And when you do, you'll get this added on so you can accomplish and achieve this. Uh, right. You actually marketed to them and then what that really. So how you were able to spend more is really. You increase conversions to VIPs.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Yeah. You, you increased conversions well above Everybody else. I mean, 5x everybody else at a bare minimum.

Speaker A: Yeah. And the other. So the other things that I do that other people don't like on this one especially is I, I Told them I would not do this unless I got a uh, uh, an email every night from them with the people who had signed up. Like so normally you get people who've done certain things but you don't actually get all the opt in.

Speaker C: You want to do a season engaging.

Speaker A: Yeah, I want to see my so Yep. So I want, I made them send me the opt in list every night because what I would do with that opt in list is then I would go back and I would retarget them for VIP if they hadn't done vip. Uh so that was so simple but so good. Yeah. Always stay engaged with your, with your list. Communicate way more than you think. Uh and add way more value. And it's like it will your list. It cracks me up even before. So this launch right here was I think last year and this was after everyone said email's dead. Email's dead. You can't, you can't email like people come to me, uh, emails damn. Like well and that's again that's why I did this. I like emails dead. Then why did I just kick the crap out of someone who's got 25 million followers?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: If emails. And here's the thing I did, I did. No and I purposely did it like this so I could use it for, you know, for my own marketing. I did zero ads for it. I did zero posts on social media for it. Nothing. The only thing I did was my list. So apples to apples, cool. They, they and I saw them pushing it on their own social media. So one of them was one of their own top speakers at the event that also pushed it kicked his, you know, beat him as well. And it's like so that you can't tell me that email is dead because it's different. You've got to do things different. Your opt ins need to be different nowadays. But email is not dead. Especially if you keep them engaged. A cold list, yeah, that's not very useful. But a, an engaged list and there's tricks to use for engaging. Like I did. I'll do this one. So again part of my thing is thinker rich. Right. I love thinking rich. And I actually built out a 54 week sequence. What do you guys call that?

Speaker C: Yeah. Soap opera.

Speaker A: Soap opera.

Speaker B: Well it depends. Do the emails feed into each other? Each email like its own standalone story.

Speaker A: So they're all each month. So it was actually 13 months. Each month had four emails with a uh, with that step of thinking rich. Right. So step one, step two, step three. It was just a little literally A one paragraph thing. Like it wasn't a big email, it wasn't a call. There was no call to actions. Well, there was a call to action, but here's. So the, the, the genius thing was the call to action was reply back. Because it was almost like a question like, what's your step? It was almost like uh, an engaging question.

Speaker C: So smart to get them to engage. Yep.

Speaker A: And the thing was reply back, I am not going to read it, I am not going to look at it, I'm not going to reply to it. You are simply putting it out to the universe that this is what your answer is. You put it out to the universe and it's much more powerful.

Speaker C: Dude, that is a ninja hack right there.

Speaker A: And so I still to this day I get probably four or five hundred emails a week from people who get these. That's a one paragraph thing that's based on that particular chapter and then send it to the universe. And so that put my engagement, my, my uh, my sender, uh, rating through the roof. Because all these people are replying back. But, but here's the thing. They do not expect a reply back from me.

Speaker C: You set expectations.

Speaker A: Yeah, they know it's just going to the universe. They're just putting it out there. Uh, you say it, you get it. It's like that is part of the, you know, so it's like if you do things like that email can absolutely still destroy. You just have to have them engaged. If you get in someone's email box in the inbox, email is the same as it's always been. It's just getting in the inbox is the, is the game now.

Speaker C: But that is a ninja hack. Like I love going to like, you know, Russell's masterminds or anything else. You get people like you, Sean, who will literally get up and they're going to give a one tip and you're like, that could change my entire stinking business. Like if I go in and now I go into my clickfunnels account and I update one of the sequences that I'm sending to engage that way and say, hey, you're not getting this back from me. But there's something about manifestation, think and grow rich stuff, blah, blah, blah, strangest secret, whatever. And now just put it out there to the universe. And now your engagement goes through the roof, your scores are better and things are landing in the inbox. Like I hope everybody's paying attention to this, like active listening, not just like, oh, uh, cool, Sean, go do something.

Speaker A: Look at, look at how you know, anybody listening? Look at what you do, your, your company, what you provide. What could you do? How could you format something like that, an engagement email sequence like that? Because again, I have it set up for literally 13 months. When someone opts in, they're automatically on it. It's like, I do nothing and it just increases 13 months of stuff. And you know, what can you do that resonates with your audience for the same type of results? And it's like, if you can reverse engineer that thought process that, you know, that, that thinking, uh, you can absolutely get your. My score, my sender score went from like in the 80s to like 99 within, uh, that's unheard of. Like a few weeks of doing that because I have hundreds and hundreds of people replying back to emails.

Speaker C: Yeah, massive.

Speaker B: One, one. One might argue that a sender score like that is far more important. Important than a social media following. Would you agree?

Speaker A: 100. I can tell you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What's funny is I know an influencer that has millions of followers that could not sell 35 of her T shirts. She put it on her social media. She's an influencer. 35 T shirts. She couldn't. She's got millions of followers. I'm like, yeah, that's not very, uh, you know, the sump are good if you can't do that. And it's like, so to me, social media, the, the only reason for me to be on social media is to get you on my list. That's the only. I don't care. I, I could give a crap if you like my stuff. I don't care if you follow me. If you get on my list. That's all that matters. I don't care about likes. I don't care about number of followers. I don't. My, my, my, uh, Instagram, like three, 500 people. Like, that's. I don't use it for, for that I use it, you know, it's completely, completely different. I do not. I'm not an influencer. Uh, I'll dance sometimes naked. But that's not.

Speaker C: Not. I want to go back though. Like, when you kind of discovered, like, I remember you feeling like, oh, my gosh, you mentioned, um, off camera too, that like, Ben, when you sold this company, you kind of came back and you're working for somebody else. You're like, I still feel homeless. You're like, I don't know what to do with myself. And that's when you kind of came up with a framework. Right. And I would love for you to Just kind of tell us what that framework is and maybe just tease us with a couple of the steps and the book.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. So I've got a, uh, uh, book that. So I've. For the last four or five years, I've done this, uh, uh, workshop called uos, which is the U operating system. And it's like how we, how we operate, how our brains operate. It's almost like the user's manual for your brain. Non techie. I tried to make it non kind of non techie. Um, but how we operate. And if we want to, like, if you want to, you know, update a, you know, something on your phone, you basically just click a button and you download a new program and that's updating your phone. Well, you can do the same thing with your brain. Like, you can. You can put whatever, whatever you want, uh, to run in your brain. You download your own, your own program. So, uh, you know, part of what we teach in there is everything we do as human beings is based on triggers and associations. Like something. And we are being triggered 24 by 7. What you see, what you hear, everything is a trigger for you, right? Every color you see, every picture, the stuff behind me. You know, if I, if I say giraffe, that's a trigger. Uh, Dante, you might think of, uh, you know, a, uh, safari. Chris, you might think, oh, Toys R Us. It's like. But that one trigger you run, you run programs. All you do is, uh. So basically it's like, how do you change the. How do you change the association that when you're triggered with something, that you run a different program? And the problem that most of us have is those programs that were, that we have are put into us before we know what. Before we know, before we can actually say, yes, we want that program or no, we don't. You know, by the age of seven, it's like, so we are, we are almost fully programmed, uh, by the age of seven before we can even say no. I don't agree with that. Uh, you're already programmed. And it's like, so how. The book is about how you can change, uh, the associations, the programs that you run, uh, when you're triggered, like, or when, when things happen. Is the, Is the. Is the book? As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that Russell is going to do the forward of that book. That's so cool.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, it's amazing.

Speaker A: He said. He said yes to the forward. So that's, uh, I mean, come on.

Speaker C: That's going to. That's going to be.

Speaker B: Yeah. Congratulations.

Speaker C: So, uh, wow, the framework. The framework you want to just tease us a little bit with Reboot.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So again, I'm a computer geek, but again, I don't want it to be a computer like book. So it's, it's. It's not. But the, the framework that I use.

Speaker B: So I don't need to know computers to understand your system?

Speaker A: Nope, not at all.

Speaker B: Okay. Thank God.

Speaker C: Turn it on, turn it off, unplug it. Like the reboot thing. I love this.

Speaker A: It's super smart. Yeah, just unplug yourself and then come back and.

Speaker C: Yeah, good.

Speaker A: Uh, so, yeah, so I've got a framework in there just called Reboot, uh, which obviously is because, you know, computer, uh, computers reboot and that's basically what you're, what you're doing with your thoughts and with how you're thinking. And it's, it's. And again, all the stuff that I talk about in that it's in every personal development book. It's like, you look at all these books, they all say basically the same thing. It's just in, in, in a way that made sense to the, the author who, who put it out. It's like, you know, hopefully that this way resonates with. But it's the same type of stuff that you get in almost any other personal development book. So it's like, you know, so reboot, uh, stands for recognize. The R is recognized. You have to understand, uh, what is actually running. And that's one of the hardest things is you don't understand that when you're triggered and you have an automatic response to things. You don't even know that it's happening. And it's like, uh, I. It's almost like driving a car. You know, you are programmed. You don't even remember how you got to work today. You're on autopilot and you just go. Those things are just running and you just go. You have to be able to recognize that and, and stop doing that. So in other words, if you're driving to work, the only time you're going to stop and recognize something, let's say there's a detour, right? There's a stop. Now you got to go back into your conscious thinking and say, oh, now

Speaker C: what do I do?

Speaker A: Oh, I've got to go off. And it's like, but other than that, you're on autopilot. So it's recognizing you know, what's happening and, and what you're responding to in the programs that you're Running because you can't change something that you don't actually know is there.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: And then you. Yeah. And next one is E, which is just evaluate. Uh, which is a big thing. It's like everything you do, you just have to evaluate. Is this something that is taking me forward or something that's bringing me back, you know, again. And it goes to me. A computer, because they're designed by humans, a computer runs exactly like a human. It's there. There literally is no difference between a computer and a human. We designed it. There's a reason it runs just like us. Uh, but those are like viruses. It's like a virus just sitting there. It's a program, and it's not doing you any good. It's hurting you. And those can be both ways. So in other words, if you have. If you're. Let's say you're making $50,000 a year, if you have a belief that you're worth a hundred thousand, that's a positive belief, right?

Speaker C: That.

Speaker A: That I'm. I'm worth more than I'm doing. Um, I'm. But if you're at, let's say, 500,000 a year, and you have a limiting belief, or you have a belief that says I'm only worth a hundred thousand dollars a year, that's a limiting. It's the same belief, but to that person, that is a limiting belief that that program is hurting them moving forward. It's like. It's like me, after I sold the company, I didn't think that was me. It's like, so that was a program that ran in me that was a limiting belief that I was not good enough to actually do the stuff that I did. And so that. That's kind of the. The gist of the book. And you break it down. You. And then you just override it. There's ways to go in and install new programs that, uh, that you want to write, and I'll take you through one of them. So one of them is, uh, it's what I call is actazip. And you see a lot of people that. That say, bake it till you make it fake it. Uh, anybody listening?

Speaker C: That's an interesting twist on it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Delete that out of your language. There is no such thing as fake it till you make it. You. You act as if you become that person. And I learned that lesson. So I was starting my first company.

Speaker C: That's a Tony Robbins thing. That's Change your state, right?

Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. See, that's the thing. It's like Everyone talks about the same thing. It's like, so when I was starting the company, I had to go out and get investors, and I had no idea investors. I. So I was literally walking into again. This was in Dallas, where I started at walking into people who were millionaires and billionaires, like the Hunt family, like the Hunt's own. It's a pretty big, pretty wealthy family. I would walk in and say, uh, you're going to want to invest in my company. Uh, you're basically an idiot if you don't. It's like, so nowadays I'm like, how did I do that? Like, now? But back then, it's like, I had no idea I'd walk in and I didn't give a. It's like, you got money? I need money.

Speaker C: You want more money, I get you more money.

Speaker A: Yeah, let's. Let's get this done. But I learned very quickly that they saw me of who I thought I was before I even got in the room. Like, we all have vibrations, and it's like, just like if you're at someplace, you know that someone powerful just entered the room before you even see them, you feel their energy, you know that energy. And I learned very early on that they've got to feel me as a peer before they're going to give me money. So I went through, like, 60, 70 people trying to get money, didn't it? So I finally figured out, okay, I've got to be one of them. So I. I basically put myself in state. Anytime, uh, I'd go up to talk to him, and I had, uh, you know, back then. Back then, the big thing was I. Hartman briefcase. I'm not sure if you remember these. They're Hartman. There was like a special, special briefcase. All the business guys, I had them.

Speaker C: Yeah. It's like having a Mont Block pen or something. Like, you got to have that suitcase.

Speaker A: Yep, yep. So I. That was my. My, uh, totem. It's like, I never used it for anything but my investor meetings. But I can tell you, the second I picked up that apartment, I was a different person. I was no longer shocked. And it's like, so. So then when I go into these meetings and I got all the money I needed for, you know, for the

Speaker C: cafe, uh, I love that anchor. That's so cool. You trained yourself that way, too. Like, no, I picked this up, and I'm Superman. It's go time.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's go time. So it's like, so you, You. You act as if before you're ready, if you, uh, if you try to do things when you're ready, you're never going to get there. You, you've got to, you've got to do. And here it's another quote. You've got to do the thing before you get the power to do the thing. You've got to be that person before you can get the power to be that person. It's like if you understand that's how you overwrite, that's how you reprogram who you are, then uh, uh, that's how it works. It's like one of the, one of my favorite quotes was from Steve Harvey and he said just once buy a first class ticket. Not don't go break yourself, but next, buy a first class ticket because what it will do, you're going to love it. And your subconscious mind in the background is going to figure out ways to do it again. It's like you're acting as if you're not faking it till you make it. You are there, you are experiencing it. You are in first class. Your subconscious says, hey, I like this. And it will find ways to get you there again. That's. And, and so that is acting as if I love it.

Speaker C: And that aligns other opportunities as well. It's kind of like, you know, the watch you wear or the car you drive or something like that. And it's how, how perception is. And you know, we can get icky about status but, but I think understanding what that does for you, I love that. So to kind of, um, to kind of recap, I've got them right here. Recognize, evaluate, break down, overwrite, operate, and then test. I don't know what we got operating test too much. We were on override a little bit. Do you have anything for operating test?

Speaker A: So operate is the act as if, like that is really where I teach the acting as if, like you're operating, operating as that person. Like you're operating as who you want to be. Whether you're there or not, it doesn't matter. You operate as that. And then you, you test and you track like what worked, what didn't work. And it's like you evaluate. It's like you're uh, going through code. It's like, well, that didn't work. Now I'm going to try this. It's like you're always evolving and doing. It's like it's a non stop reboot. It's like every, every new, every new level is a new devil. Like every new, every new thing you go through and you reboot. You reboot, you're never going to reboot from version one to version 15, right? You always have to go to version two, then version three, then version four. Uh, you can't just jump. So it's like this is a ongoing type, uh, of sequence. And again, all of the books, Tony Robbins, like, this is, it's not, it's not woo woo. It's not just how it is. It's a law of growing, no matter how you say it.

Speaker B: So I only have one question. I actually love that framework. It's just simple. You're right. It is like all personal development books just made simple. But if one doesn't know who or what they want to act, as if, like, if somebody doesn't know how they want to act, do you have a practice? Is it as simple as, like sitting down and notating what you want to become?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's. And everyone has those, what I call silent mentors. It's like m. We all have people that we look up to. No matter what you do, whether, again, whether it's in relationships, it's like, oh, that person's got a great relationship, or that person's got a great career, or that person's got, you know, great finances or even, you know, that person drives a really nice car. It's like, find out what they do and act as if. So one of my first learnings, and this was going back before that, I had a mentor that, uh, uh, that went out to lunch with one time and he gave like a I want. And again, I was, wasn't making much money. And he gave like a 50 tip. And I'm going, He's like. And he did it with a smile. And I asked me, he was like, you, you've got to. He goes. Internally, I tell myself, lucky I'm rich, you know, lucky I have plenty of money. I'm gonna give a 50 tip. Lucky I have enough money. All you're doing is you're setting your subconscious up to say, oh, I've got plenty of money. If you, if you, if you. And it doesn't have to be much. Like now every time I tip, I always tip another extra, you know, 5, 10% since that day, like every time. And it has nothing to do with, uh, having money. It has something to do with your subconscious thing. I just make more money. It's, it's just, it's just my. Just make more. It's just. So it's just a subconscious way to act as if I had all the money in the world. And your subconscious Mind kind of follows that.

Speaker C: Well, it does. It's the things that we say, too. Yes, the things that we say too. Like, it's funny. I was at lunch, uh, a few days ago with, uh.

Speaker B: With.

Speaker C: With some friends, too. And we. We collectively have a boat together. All right? Which, by the way, if you're gonna have a boat, like, just do it with friends. Because if something bad happens, then everybody collectively pitch in, but they had to take it to the dealer or something like that. And I'm like, you know, it's a good thing we're all rich, you know, and we're just kind of teasing around. But in getting in the habit of saying those type of things, like, to just resonate instead of. There's power in that. Instead of saying, oh, man, I'm so. I just wish I could get by. I wish, like, don't say those things. Like, boy, it is a good thing. Lucky I've got some money. You know what? That's so cool. I love this. Act as if, like, I'm writing down. That's my new mantra, man.

Speaker A: Yeah. Just act as if. And that's truly. So your subconscious mind gets reprogrammed by, uh. By. By these things and by doing it often. It's like you can't do it once and expect. You know, your subconscious mind understands your. It understands that. Chris, you've told me the last 15 years you're getting your ass to the gym. You've never done it. So don't. Don't sit here and say, I'm gonna get.

Speaker C: That didn't happen, Sean. Okay? That didn't really happen just for the

Speaker A: people, but it understands us. It's like. So we. We've gotta. We gotta have that repetition in order for it to say, oh, shit, yeah, okay, I, uh. We'll do it now. Yeah. Yeah, we'll. We'll do it. So that's, you know, that's the whole point of the book, and that's truly reverse engineer. How I went from, you know, 15 to taking a company public was this exact thing. Every revision was a new person. Everything was a new person. It always. And I always. For some reason, I always acted as if. For the people that I was following. I always had in. At the time, I couldn't afford coaching. I couldn't afford. So I had silent mentors. And I was like. So I would see them. I'm like, what are they doing? They're doing something. It started in, you know, in Scribbles restaurant in Omaha. They're doing something that I'm not doing. They're. They're seeing something that I'm not seeing. And if I act like that, it's like if you saw footsteps going across a snow field that's full of landmines and you saw footsteps going across that, and you don't see a dead body that got blown up by, you, uh, know, by the mine, you're going to take those exact same footsteps. Exactly. You are not going to deviate one bit. You're going to take. So if I take the exact same steps as they did, if I use their exact same framework that they did, I'm going to get to the end just like, just like they did. And, uh, so that's how I've treated virtually everything. It's like I find someone, Russell. You know, I find someone that. And, and I do what they do. Uh, I, I don't fake it. I actually do it. I act as if.

Speaker C: So, Sean, you've, you've been in the, uh, community. We'll call it like the funnel hacker community, right? Prime mover, everything else. Um, talk to us maybe about little things that you've learned or so on that have changed how you've done business. Like, I, I heard you talk, and that's why I feel okay, you know, setting you up like this. I mean, you credit a lot of this to Russell. Maybe take us there and talk us about why.

Speaker A: Yeah. So again, I built all of the stuff I do just to sell my, my thing. Again, I was going blind. I didn't, didn't know what I was doing. I was just creating stuff and, you know, getting stuff done fairly success, successful. But once I went through the secrets of success, uh, I got to meet Russell on, you know, some, uh, several different small, uh, masterminds. And the things he said, I'm like, oh, ClickFunnels isn't just a landing page. Like I thought, like, in the way I sold my stuff before is you went to my sales page and at the bottom was buy it or don't buy it.

Speaker B: That's it. Right?

Speaker A: There was, there was nothing else. And I didn't understand the art of actually doing a, what he calls a funneling. It was completely, uh, uh, you know, foreign to me on down. Sells and upsells and, and doing these other things. And, you know, again, one of the things he told me about, like I said, okay, it's cost me a lot to get, you know, getting, you know, it's getting more expensive to get people on, on the list. And he's like, you know, he started talking about the self liquidating opera and like he's, it's like he's speaking alien to me. I'm like I don't know what the hell you're talking about. So I'd go search like what that was. Uh, but all the things that he does that ClickFunnels does is so different than what I was used to. So I was on another platform. I'll say I'm completely off that uh, Kajabi. So I was on Kajabi for years and once I met with Russell and I started seeing the things that ClickFunnels actually does. Like it's not a landing page. It is uh, an ecosystem of being able to funnel people. Oh my God. Click funnels to funnel people in and do things that I could not do. Uh, on the other platform. Uh, the upsells, the downsells. They might have a few gadgets now but it was, it was never that environment uh, that uh, uh that Russell built with click Funnels. And once I moved everything over to click Funnels my literally my entire way uh, I do business changed uh, because it was no longer just a flat cell right? It was, it was now more um, being able to, to launch things and, and have them self, lick, have them pay for themselves where I'm not paying much. Uh, and, and, and upsells and down sells. I never had that before and that really changed the way that I, I do things. And what's funny is I recently launched something and it was an AI thing. So I just did it like a little AI payment through, through uh, uh, through uh, what was it?

Speaker C: Stripe.

Speaker A: Like it was connected to Stripe. And I went there, I'm like I can't do any of the stuff that I want to do so I'm pulling, I pulled that back into clickfunnels. It's like so it's still doing my front end. So I've moved all my email. So all of my email stuff goes through clickfunnels. Like my whole list goes through ClickFunnels, my whole CRM, my landing pages, my everything goes through clickfunnels. Because the platform was so different and does so much more than other platforms that I had uh, that I'd used in the past. And I literally used every platform, tested every platform out there and it really did change, you know, his methodology for, for how you do this, changed how I interact and how I sell to, to my uh, to my list. And that's, and that's a huge thing because that, that is you know a list that size A little percentage and increase is a huge percentage in the bank. And it's uh, it's truly changed how I, how I operate, uh, all of my inbound and really outbound stuff.

Speaker B: So how, how, how do you operate now, Sean? Let's. What's a value ladder? Like you're gonna start a new promotion maybe. How would you operate from. From lead to the top.

Speaker A: So, and again, all of this is stuff that I, I did half asked for years, but now it's more dialed in, uh, because now I understand. Uh, so, uh, my whole thing, so my whole, my whole ecosystem will be create a webinar or a, some sort of challenge or whatever we want to. Whatever we want. A cohort, however flavor we want for that particular thing. Invite people.

Speaker B: And that'll be free.

Speaker A: Yeah, ah, that'll be free with an extra.

Speaker B: So that's the opt in. That's the free thing of high value. That's what they're giving you their email for this free presentation or masterclass or challenge.

Speaker A: Yes. So do that, uh, take it into like VIP. So again, I would say 90% of the people who do my stuff, I don't do many ads are uh, people who are already on my list. So I'm not as worried about building the list. Like I stopped list building almost a year and a half ago and I need to get back into it. I need to start that again. But I almost stopped because it's like every email going out costs money in, in a sense, like depending on who you go with. Like sendgrid. It's like it would cost me fifteen hundred dollars a month just to engagement emails was uh, it was insane. Which not now because click funnels, that saved me a lot. Clickfunnels has saved me a lot of money, uh, doing this. So, uh, going into that center to profit center. So, uh, then now, now I do upsells to vip, which I didn't do before is like come to my event. Uh, and it was just a flat event. It's like that's, that's all it was. Now I can do upsells and actually make money off my list because again, I'm sending them there as a free thing. I'm not selling on the list. I'm selling even though they're already on my list. I'm sending them here. Hey, I'm doing this thing. You'll learn a lot. It's great. Once they're there, I do an upsell to vip, which then during that I sell them into the new package, uh, that I'm the new thing I'm promoting, whether it's an affiliate thing or whether it's my own thing. But, uh, it's that same cycle regardless of what I'm, what I'm doing. I, I, you'll never see an ad from me that sells something directly. You'll never. Usually not unless it's, unless it's launch, like launch. You're going to get, you're, you're going to get emails from me that have my offer in it in general, that's not like once a quarter. You're, you're gonna understand and you will know that I'm doing a launch. But I've earned the right to tell you I'm doing a launch. Right. I've given you enough.

Speaker C: That's not every week. Once a quarter. Right. That's very different.

Speaker A: Yeah. Now I'll do, I'll do the other things, you know, more often. Going into webinars. Going into things. But again, that's not a. So the cell is actually in the, in the webinar.

Speaker B: Wow. So that's the, that's literally the ecosystem.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: It doesn't matter what the customer, what the promotion, what vertical you're living in, inside of your list or your sequences, it doesn't matter. It's. I'm gonna have two step value ladder, opt in funnel for a webinar, a presentation, a masterclass or a challenge. Everybody gets to opt in for free. Coming off of that funnel, I'm gonna have a VIP upgrade. So those who pay pay attention. I'm gonna give them an avenue. Avenue to pay. They don't have to, they can just opt in. But I give them the avenue to pay right there. And then after that for general admission and vip, then we're all, we're just promoting the thing. The affiliate offer. That's it. Uh, rinse and repeat over and over again. Yes.

Speaker A: And then that offer also has the upsells and down sells, which is where I was losing so much money before is I would just do an offer, buy it, and if they didn't, they didn't. I didn't have the value. I didn't have the upsells down sells on my offers, even in my, in my webinars or, or my, my challenges. And I was losing a lot of money before I learned that, uh, from, from Russell. And again, clickfunnels allows you to build that into the thing, uh, into the page, into the funnel where before I could not. That's probably why I didn't do it. I couldn't do it, it's like you, you go to a page and. And I didn't have the, the ability to upsell and downsell based on stuff that was happening in the funnel. Like based on their responses to things. I did not have that. Uh, where now that's literally built into ClickFunnels. That is ClickFunnels. It's like that. So uh, that, that changed. That changed everything on, on how I uh, uh, sell stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah, the conditional logic is everybody should be doing that. That's what takes it to the next level. You know, you talk about how much I was missing out on. So many people have that revelation. I guarantee there's so many of our listeners right now listening, they're like, well I haven't really done the whole upsell down sell thing yet either. So like let's paint a little picture. What do you expect your upsell to convert at? Because uh, uh, in case you don't know, somebody goes and buys a thing on the order form step, we would immediately take them to an upsell step where hey, you bought this thing. Now do you want to do that same thing? Big bigger, better, faster, stronger, whether it's through community coaching, one on one done for you services, whatever it is, order form where they buy the main thing right to the upsell. Hey, do it like a pro. This is your first class ticket if you will. Uh, if they say no to that, then we will conditionally take them to a downsell to still try and grab all the profits and revenues that we can. Oh, first class wasn't right for you. That's okay. Would you like just a nice priority cabin seating? You know, do you want some extra leg room? So. And is that how you run it as well, Sean?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it's. Do you remember that movie with. I uh, think it was Kutcher, uh, where they're at the drive thru and then where he's at the. I love that. And then that's right. So you keep going. But I think even. I think my biggest thing was even besides that.

Speaker B: So that's.

Speaker A: If they buy it, you upsell down sell. I was losing so much money where people were like I don't want to pay 497 for that. And they were gone. So now my big thing is I can downsell them to a $47 thing or $97 thing and then from there do the upsell. So I actually made more money. I was losing more money on people not buying than I was on people buying and then upselling them to bigger packages. Because once they bought that package I had ways to. Not in line, not there but like to then. Then I would sell them to coaching and do other things but it was all manual stuff. After that I was losing a ton of money for people who weren't ready for that 497 thing or that 297 thing and then they just leave and it's like now I can capture and say oh how about a $47 do your you know DIY for this. What about. So I was losing a lot of money who they would have just left. I would have never seen them again to still get engaged even at a lower value. But that, but now that I have them at that lower value now it's up to me to get them up those ladders like totally. That's my job. My job is to get you in wherever you're, wherever you're at. My job is to get you to the next level, get you to the next level, get you to the next level. And those are the types of things that I never thought about before for click models. I couldn't do them so I never thought about them. And it's like, it's just. But uh, I, I'm telling you I left so much money for years on the table. People who went to my offer didn't take it and we're just gone and, and losing those people. Those are some of the best people you can get because those, I mean you can cycle them up through an entire ladder. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And what you mean by that is cycle them up like somebody goes to your 497 and they say oh I'm not ready for that and we just stop the sale. Well I find Sean, most times at the 2000 and less price point. Most people do have that money.

Speaker A: Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: And, and so, so they do have the resource to be able to do that thing. So when they're saying no at a sub two thousand dollar level they're really saying no to you. And what they're really truly saying is I don't know you enough like you enough, trust you enough or have enough belief that you can give me the things that I need. So having that downsell, having that $47 product is a low price point, low barrier way for people to re engage you as the business owner, your ecosystem so you can build the know like and trust and belief that you are the way in the vehicle for them to get the results. It gets them back in your ecosystem, back in the emails back to you delivering and then what, 60 days after that when you've delivered more value, then they go up, gotten them over that hurdle that they're currently at. Then they're ready for 497 and you still keep them for the next six years. They still to send the rest. They just need a little extra time, a little extra help to get there. So by adding that down sale, you give that to them in the business, they're not leaving and going and finding somebody else who's going to give that to them and joining their list and joining their ecosystem in their world for the next six years. You maximize and capitalize on every ounce of traffic that you get to the funnel.

Speaker A: And I. So I would tell anybody listening to this that the lowest thing on your value ladder is the email list. So it's like that, that, that, that's the bottom of my ladder. Get on my list. Because if you get on my list, I guarantee you will get value. And it might be a month, it might be three months, it might be six months, you might opt out at some point, I don't know. But at some point you will go up that value ladder. So my, my lowest ticket is my email list. Like get on my list because now I can control how many times you hear me, see me. Uh, and again that builds the know like and trust and that's, that's where the, and people who don't have names, like I don't have a big name out there. Um, you know, I'm not like Russell. It's like people don't know me necessarily until they're in my world. So I've got to do those low value things to show someone that they can know me, that they can trust me, that, that what I do will add them value. And again, so that my lowest thing is on the list and then it's just keep going, just keep going up from there.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, worst, worst case scenario, you're going to be on my list. You can try to sign up for the worst. My worst case scenario is you're going to be on my list and at some point you will buy something. Might not be today, but it will be.

Speaker C: That's awesome. Well, Sean, before we wrap, this has been incredible, incredible stuff. I hope everybody takes notes. Like you should have a notepad. Like, like Dante and I are writing down notes here. Like, my gosh. Um, you should have a notebook ready to go and write notes and then go do what you're actually going to like that you write notes on. But before we go, we do this segment okay, Chant. And it's rapid fire questions. So we ask really fast questions. Dante's gonna hit you with about five or six of those. But this segment is brought to you by Funnel Hacking Live. If you don't have your tickets yet for Funnel Hacking Live in Las Vegas, September 21st through 23rd at the fountain Blue. Make sure you go get this because you're gonna hear from people that are amazing that maybe one or two steps ahead of you. Plus also being in the right rooms. We've talked a lot about that. Like, this is the room where things happen. Entrepreneurialism can be a lonely road, but come get in the right room with people who are like minded. So funnel hacking live.com CFR get your ticket and we will see you in September. Are you ready for rapid fire questions, Dante and Sean?

Speaker A: I'm ready. And by the way, I will be there. So anybody come and see me? Um, I'll be.

Speaker C: High fives and live.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, There you go.

Speaker B: All right, Dante, let's get into it. Sean, rapid fire questions. Uh, my first question. I see the trilogy behind you. What's your favorite?

Speaker A: I would say my favorite is going to be Dot Com Secrets. It has more in it than.

Speaker B: And why.

Speaker A: I think it was just it, it showed me a lot of the basics that I had no idea. Uh, like I had been building lists, I'd been doing things, but like, I didn't, I didn't put everything together until I read that book. And like, oh, they all tie together. So it was kind of, for me, it was just kind of a more blanket.

Speaker C: Ah, aha.

Speaker A: Of, um, I don't wanna say the industry, but like how, how we operate.

Speaker C: I thought for sure it was gonna be Traffic Secrets.

Speaker A: Actually, you wanna know my. Want to know what my favorite book is? This book was given to me by Russell. This is a first edition, first printing of Think and Grow Rich. So cool. This is my, this is my pride suggestion right here, by the way.

Speaker C: That's. Sorry.

Speaker B: Well, that was gonna be my second question. Out of all the books you've read, what is your favorite? I'd say it's Think and Grow Rich.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah, Without a doubt.

Speaker B: Can you say why?

Speaker A: Because every time I read it, it changes. It's one of those books that meet you where you are, no matter where you are. If you are at 50,000, if you're homeless, on the streets, or you're, uh, the CEO of a big company, it will meet you where you're at. And that to me is why it is such a powerful book.

Speaker B: Wow, that's a powerful statement about a book. That's something. Okay, uh, I'm curious. What do you think is the best driver for humans? A fear of failure or a passion for success?

Speaker A: Fear of failure. Fear always drives me all day. That's what drove my last project. Yep, absolutely. Fear will, at least for me, fear gets my ass going on the same line.

Speaker B: Pleasure, uh, move towards pleasure or away from pain?

Speaker A: Away from pain. And if you're selling, I'm just. And from a selling standpoint, if you felt. If you sell to their pain, you will do much better than if you sell to a pleasure.

Speaker C: That's true.

Speaker B: M. Okay, do you have a favorite headline and what I mean by that is like curiosity based headline, Shock and awe, bold statement headline. Do you have a favorite that you would go to every time?

Speaker A: If I had my way, it would be sarcasm. I speak fluent sarcasm. That's like so people sometimes will be with me and they're like, well I'm like, I'm just being sarcastic. I'm sorry. I think, um, and I've tried all different types of headlines. I, for me, I think the uh, curiosity, uh, is, is probably one of the most powerful that I have for my, my list is, is the curiosity of things because they're all. They all kind of know. But it's like that will uh, for me that will do better than anything is curiosity.

Speaker B: And that's going to go on your email subject lines. That's going to go on your funnel headlines, that'll even go on your social media titles of your videos.

Speaker A: Yes, curiosity, uh, and Russell says this all day long. Everyone's like, your headline is the most important thing you will ever write. Because if they don't stop, if they don't open the email, if they don't do, if they don't stop on the scroll, it doesn't matter how good your stuff is, it's not gonna. Won't convert. So that is the most important thing that you can, that uh, you can write.

Speaker B: This might be a tough one and it might be because it's a bad question. So let me be fair on that. Is there a most important thing when building a coaching funnel?

Speaker A: Most important thing one is honesty of what you can do. Uh, I see so many people who, who do coaching but they've never actually done it and they've never. It's like to me the most important thing for a coaching funnel is coaching something that you've actually walked and, and not theory, not something you read. And I think that's the biggest uh, and even if you're not where you want to be and you want to start coaching and you haven't done a lot of stuff, you are still one or two steps ahead of a whole bunch of people.

Speaker C: Yeah. Or do it for free and get the results.

Speaker A: Yep. Or do it for free and get the results. And it's like. But you have to, uh, you have to be honest in what you deliver and what you do, because, uh, if not, one, they won't be on your list for long. And. And two, it's just not going to be profitable. Uh, it's. So even if you're not doing stuff at this high, high level and you're just doing some. Here's how to write a headline. If you've done headlines that have converted, you can coach on that. But as long as you. As long as you're one or two steps ahead, uh, of somebody, there's someone that will pay you for what you do. Everyone has a gift. Everyone has a genius.

Speaker B: That is a powerful statement, Sean. I've heard it a hundred times, just in this year, a million times in my life. And I feel like that statement also takes new forms the more times I hear at different points in my life. Gosh, I hope you got that, gang. That was amazing right there. Okay, uh, we talk about os, your framework on how to change your operating system. What's an operating system that you had running that you really didn't know was running? Maybe, like, even after you came up with all of this and you really understood how to look at yourself, what's a sneaky one that took you a longer time to find?

Speaker A: I would say the. The biggest. The biggest one that I had or still have is being homeless. Uh, so it was. I pro. So I had best friends up until, like, maybe six years ago that had no idea of my backstory. I was so ashamed of being, you know, where I was, that. That was so. Again, it's still. It's still a limiting belief that, uh, uh, that controls. It doesn't necessarily control me. I understand it now, but it's still. It still affects me. But that. That. That program of you're not enough was, uh, deep. Very deep. M. So that was the biggest one. And here's the thing. We all have that. We all have that to some degree, that we're not. That's what imposter syndrome is. It's like, oh, I've got somewhere. If we've ever done anything outside of your comfort zone, you're going to feel like an imposter, because it's outside of your comfort zone. And it's like just learning. That was, uh, probably one of the most powerful lessons, um, that the programs that, uh, that we run.

Speaker B: Wow. My final question here, Sean. What's, uh, one thing people struggle with a lot when it comes to mindset work when they first get started, probably

Speaker A: that they don't need it. And, uh, you are. And I like to tell people you are exactly where you are because of the mindset you have. It's literally that simple. If you want to get to the next level, it's not a tactic. You will learn things by changing who you are. You're going to automatically learn those tactics, tactics that you need. But it's all a mindset shift. If you want to be at the next level, you need to act as if you're at that next level. And you learned. You only learn by taking action. You can never do anything without taking. You have to take the action first. That's the biggest thing, is like, change your mindset. That is the biggest thing you can do in order to grow to that next level is mindset. Everything else will follow.

Speaker B: Wow. Great answer, Sean. That's rapid fire. Thank you for that.

Speaker A: Love it.

Speaker C: Hey, and remember, that's brought to you by Funnel Hiking. If you don't have your ticket yet, you're crazy. Go to funnelhackinglive.com CFR if you don't have it yet.

Speaker B: Just so you know, you can actually pick out your tickets this year. Brand new, super requested. Choose where you want to sit. No run, no rush, no getting there early to get up front. Choose your seats.

Speaker C: Yeah. Awesome. Sean, before we let you go, if somebody wants to follow you, learn more, get on your list, whatever it is. Where's the best place for them to go to find you?

Speaker A: Best way is just thinking big. Coaching.com. i have. Usually everything's there that I do. Uh, it's not, uh, you know, all the programs I have. It's like everything. You can get a hold of me there, you can contact me there. Uh, that's normally the best place for that.

Speaker C: Love it. Thanks so much, Sean. What another great episode of Clickfunnels Radio. We will catch you guys on the next one. Thanks a lot, Sean.

Speaker A: Uh, thank you.