#271 - With Guest Lori Hardtke - Unlocking the Secrets of Mastering Two Businesses

Speaker A: Foreign

Speaker B: um, this is Channel Pro Weekly Episode 271 with guest Lori Hartke of Bytewise Inc. Recorded Tuesday, July 30, 2024. Hello and welcome to Channel Pro Weekly Episode 271. My name is Matt Whitlock, Technology editor for the Channel Pro Network and your host of this show for IT providers and managed services providers and IT solution providers. If you do technology solutions with other businesses, you are in the right place and we are glad that you are here to join us. We've got an amazing uh, guest with us today for an awesome topic that I think everyone's going to get a lot out of. I'm very excited uh, to have her here. She is the owner and president of Bitewise Inc. A solo MSP and entrepreneur and a technology educator and an author who specializes in highly effective technology strategies for, for small businesses. She uh, also teaches a class on how to be a uh, successful solo MSP through the ITSP University, which helps other MSPs scale their business without hiring an army of end, uh, employees and other people on staff. Please welcome the one, the only, the fabulous, the probably warm where she's at right now, Lori Hartkey. Welcome back, Lori.

Speaker A: Thanks, Matt. Yeah, it's uh, it's a, well it's not as hot as Arizona, but it's uh, it's heating up over here on Maui.

Speaker B: Yeah, I have to imagine that uh, that over. For those who don't know, uh, Laurie, uh, resides on the wonderful island of Maui in Hawaii where it is always what, a pleasant 82 degrees and sunny.

Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. But this time of the year it actually can get closer to 90 and it's humid so it, it's awful. It's just awful.

Speaker B: Well, I'm sure, I'm sure the, the, the horrible heat is offset by the fact that you can just take a dip into the ocean anytime you want.

Speaker A: Yep, very true. Yeah, it's not, uh. Well, I grew up in Minnesota, so totally different.

Speaker B: So, so, so you know, the Minnesota went. Now I can understand why you escaped, uh, out to Hawaii. Where, what parts of Minnesota did you come from?

Speaker A: Uh, Winona, the Southeastern. Um, Southwestern. Southeastern. Southeastern part.

Speaker B: Southeast apart. So you and I have a lot in common. Uh, I grew up and I, my first early childhood was in Minnesota in the Minneapolis suburban uh, area. So I too know the, the, the winters. Although unfortunately I would have not been able to escape to Hawaii. I escape, I instead escaped to Illinois, which is actually even worse. So.

Speaker A: Well, yeah, no, no, uh, no great place to grow up and I Do go back often. So it's uh, it's a, it's a good gig I got going.

Speaker B: Indeed it is. So Lori, um, you've been on the show before. It's been a while since we've had John. I'm excited to have you back in the, in our kind of a new format that we have going here. But for those who may not have caught uh, an episode with you before, tell us a little bit more about you, a little bit more about Bitewise.

Speaker A: Uh yep, I'm m a solo MSP as Matt mentioned and um, I've kind of built a business that serves me uh, instead of the other way around. And I get a lot of questions on because my business was actually incorporated in Arizona in 2 uh,000 3M and I didn't go full time with BiteWise until 2008. But um, I get a lot of questions being that they know I moved to Maui. Like how do you do that? So I, I didn't realize it was a big deal. Um, and I, I've you know kind of figured I, I, if I could help others, you know that and the other big thing too is that you know in our industry everybody talks about you know, gotta grow, grow, grow. Your top line number is you know, what where are you? And I just feel um, that that wasn't what I wanted. I didn't want to be a multi million dollar business. I didn't a lot of things I didn't want. So I um, created a business that serves me. I have a um, um I call it a perfect client avatar that I go for. It's clients that have 50 users or less. They um, are only open Monday through Friday 8 to 5 because I don't work nights or weekends. And um, you know, other, other little things that they just need to check that box and then we're a perfect fit.

Speaker B: That's awesome. So you've added on some additional certifications in uh, recent, recent times. You want to tell us a little bit about those?

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, so I um, because of the I guess popularity of the five week class that I teach, um, um one of the things I learned is that uh, a lot of business owners struggle to pay themselves a decent salary and um, I was in that same boat. There's some really staggering stats that uh, Robin Robbins shared uh last year. Um, I think it's like 79% of all MSPs um, that they're actually under a million in revenue, top line revenue. Um, even though like only about 5% of those are startups and roughly 50% of those um, are generating less than 500k a year. And even though that they've been in business for 10 years and almost all of them make 150k or less, 33% make less than 70. And that was me. I was right in there with all of those stats. And then she also mentioned a lot have debt and fortunately I didn't have ever, ever have a lot of debt. Um, but I, I just, I wasn't alone, you know. And then I started profit for uh, I implemented profit first in my business in 2019 and within four months I paid off as um, I think it was a $19,000 0% credit card. And within a year I finally hit that six figure barrier and I was sold. And I'm like I have to help others because this just makes sense. It was easy. I didn't have to really have to understand to read financials. You know, um, especially if you're small and you don't have the staff that, that does a lot of that stuff for you. Um, and so I became a certified last year I became a certified Profit first professional and then earlier this year I became a certified. Fix this next advisor.

Speaker B: Tell us a little bit about what those certifications mean for those who may not be familiar with them.

Speaker A: Um, well there's like a footprint or certain um, ways that you can do profit first correctly. You can also do a lighter version of it. Um, but it really has made just a huge difference in my uh, life. Um, I feel confident in my numbers. It allows me, you know, if you, if you ha. If you're profitable you can, there's so many things that it does for you. You can hire top talent, you can grow, it can feel growth. If that's what you want. It can um, if you, when you're ready to exit, you know, you'll hear Rayanne say you need three years of you know, your financials. Well, the more profitable you are, the more more multiples you can hopefully obtain for your business. So all kinds of reasons to make sure you're profitable year after year. And um, I just, I have so many stories about my own struggles year after year where my salary, my revenue kept going up, but my salary never followed that curve. And I um, you know, uh, one year in fact I, I thought I was doing pretty good. I gave myself a raise and only to give myself a twelve thousand dollar cut and pay the following year.

Speaker B: You're demoting yourself?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. If I was, you know, if you were working for a business that did that to you, you'd probably quit. Right? But you can't do that when you're running the show. So um, it just, it took me a long time. It took me 12 years before I was profitable and I just felt, um, not right. And how could I help others, you know, go at a much quicker pace than what it took me? Um, and so the, the, um, the fix this next. Um, actually it helps like figure out what's wrong in your business, but it's also based on what they call the business priority pyramid. So obviously sales is like at the bottom of the pyramid because that's, you don't have sales, you don't, you know, you can't worry about profits. But so it's like sales, profit and then order. So having um, ah, a lot of process and procedures in place is really important. Obviously we all know that, but it's, it's hard to do especially when you're small and you don't really have staff to, you know, hand off to others. So um, so I'm, you know, putting together the academy that will help, you know, give direction and a blueprint basically of here's what we can do to fix whatever the problem is first and then move on and then circle back around and then, you know, so it can take a while. I'm, um, not, you know, profit first. It takes about 12 to 18 months before you really start to see the like, okay, this really is making a difference.

Speaker B: So, so that blueprint that you're talking about, that's the, the profit builder blueprint, is that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So that's the academy that I'm launching here soon. Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's taken you time to get there. As you said, you, you had a long journey, a struggle where you had to give yourself pay cuts and, and not be there. But you, what are some of the practical steps that you've taken to streamline your business, uh, over the years that's allowed you to dedicate the time to coach other business owners?

Speaker A: Yeah, good. Yeah, that's a good, good question. I, um, you know, I kind of go back to building the client, the perfect client for me. Uh, thankfully now a lot of their third party apps are hosted by vendors, so their networks aren't nearly as complex or in my opinion, as timec consuming. Now again, keep in mind, a lot of my clients are very small, um, so they don't require a whole lot from me anymore other than to have all the right security and you know, all of those things, the backups and all that in place. Um, I also make sure that I, all of my clients are pretty much set up the same. I don't offer all of the different packages. It's like I want to give everybody the best that, that they deserve. And um, what might be different might just be whichever black backup platform we're using, depending on their needs or maybe if they have voiceover IP or custom websites or um, you know, those are the things that'll differ but otherwise they're all set up the same so we don't have to fumble through a whole lot of, we know right where to go for our um, firewall, you know, portal. It's not like we have four different ones that we have to log into depending on who you are. We just, it makes it easier. Um, so being consistent I think is really important. Uh, documentation. I've struggled with that for a lot of years. Uh, a lot of it was in my head and it's one of those vicious cycles because if I document everything now I got to keep the documentation up to date and uh, I don't have time to do that. Um, but ah, we, we and I do, I don't have any full time employees but I do have part time. Um, we've worked together. We worked together at the IT job, um, at a software company where I was IT manager and RAM and I, we've known each other for almost 20 years. And so it's a, it works for him, it works for me. Um, but he takes care of a lot of the help desk tickets and that's been really helpful for me. And um, but our ticket count is really low. We only average about 30 to 50, 40amonth. And I think that is again because we, everybody's set up the same. If there's a problem here, we know there might be a problem over there. So we can, you know, get ahead of the curve. Um, trying um, to think what other things. Even with documentation now we're trying to really get down to the details. So if a um, task needs to be done a lot of times I'll start out with, let me just get you know, the top things that, the overview. Then as we go and work onboarding uh, uh, a new computer or whatever, I'm just, we'll go right into the details and start adding more. So don't feel like you always have to have it all perfect right from the beginning. Just start somewhere and get it going and then, and now our systems have really built, you know, built out automating, you know, with uh, rmm. I've been doing a Lot more scripting to, to make everything just a click of a button where I can m doing some integrations with different things. And I think that all helps quite a bit.

Speaker B: Yeah, I might ask you about that in a minute, but you, I'm really interested in your tick account and the fact that you have all of your clients kind of set up the same way. Do you, you said you look for a certain model of customer and do you find that targeting the very small kind of helps you wrap people wrap those businesses that are tiny, are they easier to wrap into what you want to offer? Or are you that selective?

Speaker A: Yeah, I am now. I used to, uh, when I first started I would be residential. Sure, I'll help you. And you know, I had a hard time collecting money from little old ladies that, you know, it's like, oh, I'll just do it for. I was spending a lot of time helping them, train them, do things, you know, and I couldn't charge my full price that I, you know, should have. So it, that's what I mean, it's taken me a long time to figure all this out and, and I just, I know I'm not alone in that, but yeah, it's um, I, I really do. And then the other piece is I don't um, typically do retail and, or get into the whole um, medical sector either just be. I did, but the whole hipaa, uh, you know, and compliance and I just, I don't know, I didn't want to risk it. So, um, so over time I have parted ways with some of my clients. I actually have less clients now and I'm making. My revenue is the highest it's ever been because I'm, I think I'm more focused, you know, and we can deliver a really good service. So that's awesome.

Speaker B: For our YouTube audience who happens to be watching on YouTube, make sure you hit the like and the subscribe and hit the bell uh, while you're there. But we, we gotta, gotta witness to a little visitor who popped on screen for a moment. Would you like to introduce us to your, to your little friend, Maverick?

Speaker A: Yeah, Rescue. He's uh, my little office cat and he's a little love bug. So he may be up in my, my face here shortly.

Speaker B: Uh, he's adorable. Thanks for uh, having him and bringing him on the show to share with everyone. Everybody needs to see a, uh, nice kitty cat every now and then during their, during their day. So I'm gonna touch on automation here in a second. But I want to get some of your, some of your tips that you can offer about managing time effectively and prioritization, which I know is very important to you.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, you know, we all struggle with that, of course, and especially in our industry, too, because we. I mean, I will have days where I have all these things that I plan to do, and a lot of them don't happen because I'm interrupted all the time. But I've, uh, now purposely, like, I don't. I say I don't work on Fridays, but I usually, that's. I block out the entire day, and that is for me to work on whatever, uh, backlog I might have or to do personal things. I really try hard to, um. Yeah, I guess that's the other thing too, is I, um. I. I'm. It's really important to me. Like, I walk every morning. I try to go two to three miles every day. And that's another opportunity, um, for me to listen to podcasts or, you know, books on audible, um, or. And it's been amazing, too. The, the great ideas that I get when I'm out walking, you know, and kind of like when you're in the shower and you don't have anything to write on, it's like, oh, I'll remember that. Um, but, um. Yeah. What else do I do to keep. Um. One of the things that I do typically the night before is I. I jot down the three things that I really need to accomplish the next day, and I leave that on a sticky or on a notepad that I'm looking at all day long. That's my focus. And some days I get all three, some days I only get one, but then it'll be on the list for. For the next day. That's kind of been helpful, you know, in this day and age with, uh, all the digital, you know, gadgets and everything, I find, I find they're. They're nice, but yet they get buried in all of the other screens I have up. And then I'm. I lose focus, you know, so, um, and now I even have a special iPad off to the side where I just have my to do list on that as well. So if I, you know, forget that something else was important, it shows up, you know, on the daily due, um, date. So, um, I guess little things like that help.

Speaker B: Sometimes a return to simple is good. You know, simple. Simple can be better.

Speaker A: Well, I'm, um. I'm a paper and pen person. I, I like to doodle and, and write and, you know, when I go to events, I see everybody just typing in their laptops or, you know, iPads, and, and I'm like, I'm sitting there writing handwriting. Uh, I just. There's some. It helps me, I guess, remember things more than when I type it in, so.

Speaker B: That's awesome. You mentioned earlier that you, you're starting to dabble with automation and trying to script things a little bit more. What, what are some of the tools or software that you found to be most effective in automating some of those operational tasks and how they're. How they're helping you free up time for additional pursuits?

Speaker A: Well, one of the tools that I can't live without is Snagit. Um, you can do video clips, you can do just regular, you know, screenshots and you can mark it up. And so I use that on the daily, uh, all the time and it's just. And then you can even tag your. So even when I, I show a client something, I'll tag it with their company code and I've done that multiple times where I can go back and just search on their. The, the screenshot that I used at that time for them. Um, you know, other than the RMM tool, another. There's a process plan and process street. Um, I've looked at both and we're now working on a. Things, um, like a master template for onboarding a new. New user, new computer that will start with the client. So the client will fill out an online form and then they will. That. That once they hit submit, that will kick off a, A list of all of the, like a master checklist of all the things that we need to do based on who they are and what they're um, what they all checked in that online form. And so that's something that um, we're currently working on. Um, just. Yeah, you know, there's so many tools out there, but I, I try not to. I, I used to jump from one thing to another and I found I just. I would profit first helped with that. I was like, oh, I still have that subscription. Don't need that anymore. You know, so you go through your list and you're like I, I don't really need that anymore. And, and then that helps save, you know, and your expenses.

Speaker B: So have you dabbled with any of the, the new AI tools?

Speaker A: And large, uh, a huge perplexity uh, AI fan. Uh, but it's interesting when you put the same text in multiple ones that they spew out different answers for you. So I, I like to check multiple ones um, just to see what they come up with. Um, there's some really amazing things that you can do with, you know, the videos and audio and things. Some of it's scary, but, um, I haven't. As far as really implementing as part of our structure or anything like that, I haven't done any of that.

Speaker B: So I got to talk about one last question. So you talked about documentation. So how do you develop and document processes to ensure consistency and efficiency in your operations, especially when you're not directly involved? Which I think is kind of makes you a very interesting use case.

Speaker A: Um, I'm a big fan of the book Clockwork. I'm a big Mike Michalowitz fan, obviously. Uh, but his, uh, um, book Run Like Clockwork has you basically, uh, like I mentioned, you just start somewhere, start documenting. But the goal is that you are, um, trying. Probably the best is just to do a video of the steps that you're doing and then you can dissect it. You could, um, break it down into a written document if you wanted. I'm sure there's translate, you know, you can translate it or whatever. Um, and then the goal is that anybody, whether they're experienced in the task or not, would be able to follow your instructions if. If that task is now their responsibility. It's up to them to update the screenshot or update the documentation. So it's always fresh and staying up to date. And, um, so that's what we're, you know, been doing more of lately. And, um, setting a task to go through and kind of review a lot of your documentation and get rid of the stuff that's no longer valid. It's just like everything, we just everything accumulates and it, you know, and then all of a sudden you're drowning in it, drowning in paperwork, drowning in digital documents. And so it's. It's a. It's tough to. To stay on top of everything, but you have to, um, you know, get the. Just get a recurring task in your favorite task tool and make sure that you can, um, kind of keep tabs on. On those things. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Not letting it get too bad. And you know, nobody likes house cleaning, but it sounds like it's an important thing to do. Well, that's awesome. Well, Lori, thank you so much. Really fascinating topic. Um, your business, uh, is just such an interesting case, uh, how you've developed a really cool lifestyle business that really serves you well. And you seem like the least stressed human being on planet Earth, which I think is odd for an msp.

Speaker A: Well, that's.

Speaker B: There's a lot here to learn about and A lot here to take away and a lot here to admire and want to strive for. So thank you so much for sharing that with us. We are going to, we're not done though. Lori's going to be back on the other side of the break. We're going to take a quick break, we're going to come back, we're going to throw her in the hot seat and uh, hit her with our three questions for our three question segment. And uh, we'll talk a little bit about events and we're going to talk about, uh, some more things. You never know what, what's going to be on the other side. So stick around. We will be right back. And welcome back to part two of this episode. Lori Hardkey with Bitewise is still with us here and she is, uh, making her way to the hot seat. It looks a lot like the seat she was in, uh, at the first part of the show. But this is indeed the three questions segment, hot seat, where we're going to hit her with three quick rapid fire questions to kind of get a quick, quick taste of uh, what she's all about and some of the advice that she has to offer. Laurie, are you ready?

Speaker A: I'm ready.

Speaker B: She is ready. All right, here we go. Question number one. What's the secret to juggling two businesses successfully?

Speaker A: I don't know if I have any secrets. It really helps that my one business, my MSP is, feeds, um, into the other. So everything I'm learning, uh, in my business I'm sharing with the other. So it's. Oh, works.

Speaker B: Yeah, that works. All right, question number two. What's your strategy for building a reliable team even though you're not there to supervise?

Speaker A: Obviously communication, um, is big. Uh, just um, like I mentioned, documentation, uh, giving like clear instructions and time frames so people know. Here's what I'm expecting or hoping for has been helpful. Um, and I think I mentioned too, just working with others, the two MSPs that I work with, that's just, that's been invaluable and I encourage everybody to be part of any, you know, one of the wonderful communities that we have or just find another MSP or two that are, have the same values, same structure, whatever. Um, it doesn't even have to be the same structure. The MSPs that I'm working. One is, um, gosh, he has like 6, 7 people working for him now and he's probably close to 2 million in revenue, so.

Speaker B: Wow. Awesome. Awesome. All right, question number three. What practices have you implemented to maintain strong client relationships? And retention rates.

Speaker A: Um, my gosh, I, I've had some clients even before I took Bitewise full time in 2008 and I, you know, I think some of it is just they like working with a small msp. They like, they know they're either going to get myself or rom and they don't have to explain it to different people because people are coming and going. Um, and they like that we're really fast to solve their problems. I mean we're usually at right on top of a ticket within probably 10 minutes typically unless we're both busy. Um, and, and since my clients are small, I, you know, I do have technical business reviews, but not that often, maybe once or twice a year. Um, just to make sure. I like having those high level business discussions where I'm just, we're talking business, you know, and, and making sure that their technology is um, um, aligning with their business goals. And so I think they, they, they just like that um, white glove service if you will.

Speaker B: All right, Lori, thank you so much for answering our three questions. It was awesome to get the kind of like nice little uh, roundup of answers from you on that. Really, really great stuff. Uh, and I appreciate you coming on and talking to us. We're not going to say goodbye quite yet though because we got a couple of things to talk about. One is uh, is we've got a lot of events coming up. Now Lori, I know you don't get an uh, get a chance to often get on a plane and fly from Maui to attend a lot of in person events because that's, that's very difficult from when you're where you are from and kind of cost prohibitive. But uh, you have joined uh, several Channel Pro events online. Uh, anything to say about any of those?

Speaker A: Highly recommend them. I, yeah, no, I always learn. And that's the other thing too, you know, over the years is I always learn just these little golden nuggets of things that I take back and implement in my business. And so where I'm at today is a uh, summation of things I've learned from everybody in our industry.

Speaker B: Well, awesome. So Lori recommends our online events and I do too, as well as our physical uh, and in person events, uh, as well. So we, we do have a bunch of events coming up. So by the time you're listening to this uh, we might be wrapping up our channel, uh, Pro East Defend event in Island, New Jersey. Um, I hope many uh, of you had a chance to come out and join us for that. And that is a Two day cybersecurity summit that focuses uh, a lot on how to protect your customers and on the latest and greatest in cybersecurity. If uh, you happen to miss that or if you're not on the east coast and you're on the west coast, we uh, are going to be doing one of those again in November. It's going to be called Channel Pro Defend west. That's going to be in the Los Angeles area. I'll put a link in the description area if you're listening on your phone or I'll put a link in the description if you're watching on YouTube and if you're watching on YouTube, hit the like, hit the subscribe, hit the bell, hit the comments area. Just start clicking stuff all over YouTube and just see what happens. It'll be a lot of fun and of course tell uh, a friend about us as well while you're, while you're there. But uh, we're going to be putting some QR codes up on the screen as well if you're watching. So um, make sure that you get a chance to go and register and join us at our DEFEND event in Los Angeles. We've got some other events coming up though. We've got our Channel Pro Live event in Charlotte is coming up here in a few months and we're also going to be in Dallas which it looks like it's going to be an AI focused show. Um, uh, last I uh, heard in the internal discussions here. So we're going to be talking a lot about AI there. It's going to be really uh, fascinating stuff and as Lori recommends we do have some online events. Uh, the next channel, uh, Pro Product Roundup will be coming up I believe in September. And we've got uh, the next deep dive coming up as well. So hit the description area, hit the links or go to events.channelprenetwork.com and then there you'll find all of our upcoming events and we hope that you subscribe to some of them uh, and come to some in person if you can. They are free uh, to attend for qualified attendees and I would enjoy meeting you in person or online. So make sure that you, you uh, do that and join us. So Lori, I've got two minutes with you and I'm just dying. It's because I don't know anyone else that lives in Hawaii and I'm like really, really jealous uh, that you do. So I'm going to hit you with a little fun segment. So I want to hear top three things. Lori Hartke loves to do while living in Maui. Make us jealous, Lori.

Speaker A: Well, obviously there's the beach, um, but, uh, hiking. Hiking's really awesome here. A lot of great hikes, uh, that are either along the ocean or up in the bamboo forest. I mean it's like you get a little of everything. Um, what would be the third thing? Oh, gosh. Um, well, there's some really fun, uh, if you like vodka or wine. We do have a little winery. We have the vodka, um, ocean vodka tours that you can do. That's uh, a lot of fun. And a lot of the local farmers you can do, uh, like farm, farm, uh, to table. They'll have events, um, and we have the um, the painting. Uh, I think a lot of cities have that now, but like a painting class. So you, you. We have. I have artwork all over from attending those. Those are kind of fun to do. So those are kind of my top three things.

Speaker B: That sounds great.

Speaker A: Yeah, they used. We used to have, uh, um, Marty, uh, Dread and he did, um, he'd play. He was like a, uh, reggae kind of and he would play out on a, on a boat and that was a ton of fun. But he stopped doing that.

Speaker B: So Maui is not a huge island, but it's not a small one either. Do you like, know everybody that lives on the island or do you. Or is there so much tourism that you just.

Speaker A: Yeah, there's so much tourism. But it, it is, it is, it's fun. It reminds me of growing up, you know, in my hometown. But it's a lot bigger than my hometown even. And um, so it has that small town feel. And I lost all of that when I was living in Arizona. It was just always crazy there. So uh, this is just nice. Helps chill out, you know, a little bit more here, so.

Speaker B: Well, that's awesome. I hope we can all aspire to live in the, in the tropical. For those who like tropical weather, some, some people actually prefer anybody. Some people for the cold winters of uh, northern Minnesota. And you're crazy. That's all I have to say to you. But hey, rock and roll. To each their own and we love it. So Lori, thank you so much. For those who want to get to know you, m. Network with you, partner with you, get your tourism tips for the island of Maui. Where can they go? How can they find you?

Speaker A: Probably the best is just loritewise.net I do have the lori@profitbuilderblueprint.com um, so either one.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well folks, I hope you. We'll put those in the show notes as well, uh, for this episode, episode 271. And, uh, go and check those out. And, um, make Lori your best friend. Because. Because Lori's awesome. That's why. Just, Just because Lori's awesome. Let's leave it at that. Uh, Lori, thanks so much for coming on. I look forward to having you back. Folks, channel, uh, fournetwork.com is the website to go. Please make it your homepage. Bookmark it, uh, go there each and every day. There you're going to find the latest white papers and news and articles and press releases and resources and all kinds of great stuff that's going to help you stay on top of this crazy IT industry that's rapidly, uh, changing and evolving. Uh, as well as, uh, lots of great practical advice and knowledge and insight to help you grow your business, make more money, so on and so forth. So channel fournetwork.com, go there today and of course subscribe to channel four weekly. Everywhere podcasts are found, we are in all of them. So please subscribe and leave a comment if you can. Or a nice rating. That always goes a long way. Um, if you like to watch, we're on YouTube. Hit the subscribe, hit the like, hit the notifications, hit the bell, hit all that stuff. Leave, uh, a comment there as well. And of course, we encourage you all to, uh, tell a friend about Channel 4 weekly. We always say Channelper Weekly is better enjoyed with a buddy. So if you have a colleague or a friend or, uh, someone else you think might enjoy listening to our, uh, awesome guests and our sound advice, uh, please let them know about it. And that way you have something to discuss around the water cooler, because as we found out last week, that's still a thing. So make, uh, sure that you do that and subscribe and we'd really, really appreciate it. Visit our website online. And with that, I think that's it. So, Laurie, thanks again for joining us. And with that, we're going to say goodbye. We'll see Everybody in episode 272 next week. See you then.