Securing America's Tech Leadership in the Age of AI

Speaker A: Welcome to Champions and Challengers, discussions on the legal Edge of FinTech, hosted by Greg Listini and other attorneys from Bricker Graydon, a full service law firm with more than 200 attorneys with expertise in financial services, insurance and insurance tech law and clients across the country where we feature CEOs, founders, legal advisors and industry professionals exploring business threats, technology, regulatory trends and legal trends that are reshaping the financial services industry.

Speaker B: Welcome to Champions and Challengers, a Fintech legal review. I'm Greg Listini, an attorney practicing in the government relations and insurance regulatory spaces. And I have the pleasure of leading our regulated industries group here at Bricker Graden. Today I'm thrilled to be joined by my old friend, longtime friend, what's the better, uh, expression? Doug Kelly with the American Edge project. Born and raised in a small Michigan town, Doug was exposed to the impact of offshoring at an early age. Doug joined AP as chief executive officer in September of 2021. And the organization's goal is to save the technology sector from suffering a fate similar to American manufacturing. For 20 years he served in senior leadership roles in the political sector. That's where Doug and I, uh, initially met.

Speaker C: Douglas.

Speaker B: Deeply engaged in presidential, gubernatorial and other statewide campaigns. Over his career, Doug has successfully led three separate large scale transformation efforts in technology, organization building and fundraising. Doug, it is a thrill to have you on. Welcome and thank you.

Speaker C: Hey, thanks so much for having me. I sure appreciate it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, so excited. I mean, when we sort of reconnected, I guess, uh, you were telling me about American Edge and um, it's just fascinating. You know, we usually do these podcast about 45 minutes, uh, and I don't know that we'll have enough time to talk about all the things you're working on. But why don't you start with a little summary of American Edge, you know, maybe what your mission and vision, uh, statements are, uh, so that listeners understand a little bit more about the organization.

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So the American Edge Project, we are a coalition of 24 different organizations. And what we do is we advocate for the importance of American innovation, leadership, especially in the technology sector, um, so that that protects our national security, our economic prosperity and American values. Um, because at the end of the day, technology isn't just another sector of the economy. Uh, it's the very backbone of what we do in security, economics and our values. So there's high stakes and we got to get it right in this country.

Speaker B: That's awesome. I mean, you know, and honestly when we started trying to think, when we first started Talking about having you on. But, uh, you know, we're in a much different world now, uh, than we were then. And certainly as much as technology has always been, as you said, at the heart of where the American economy is, there's such a bigger spotlight on it now.

Speaker C: Yeah. Let me just add there, like, you know, in the intro you said, you know, expose the impact of offshoring. You better believe it. Right. So I grew up in Michigan in a small manufacturing town in the early 80s. Uh, and you know, it was a great community, uh, called Adrian, Michigan. And you could graduate from high school, not go to college, but go to work at any one of the 40 factories that we had in that community. Um, and you could make a great wage, you could send your kids to college, um, and you could live a robust middle class life. Well, um, unfortunately, policymakers in Washington didn't prioritize and value, uh, that manufacturing sector. So they did things like passing NAFTA in 1993. They did things like letting China in the World trade organization in 2000. Ah, especially when China came the World Trade Organization. That cost us 5 million manufacturing jobs as a country. Uh, and you know, from my point of view, in my hometown county, we lost 43% of our manufacturing jobs over the next 20 years. So I saw the devastation uphand in firsthand. I saw the, the challenges that presents to the community when you lose a lot of great high um, paying jobs with good benefits. Um, and I saw how that led to a whole series of community communities of despair all across the country. And so fast forward 20 plus years. Right. Um, you know, I want to get back in advocacy. I'm concerned about some of the things that, um, elected officials are trying to do to the technology sector. Um, and then I find out this job and I'm like, wait a minute, I could be CEO of an organization that advocates for American technology and be able to use all my manufacturing life experience. I'm in 100%.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So that's a little bit of my origin story there. But it's why, it's why, it's what inspires me to get up every day to do this work.

Speaker B: That's great, Doug. And, uh, it's funny because I don't know that we've ever talked about our backgrounds, uh, but mine is incredibly similar. Grew up in a small southeast Ohio town. Uh, there was an aluminum plant there. And literally I remember having conversations with my friends when I was getting ready for college. They said, why would you do that? I'm going to go make more than you will at the aluminum plant. And that aluminum plant is shuttered and gone 20 years plus now. So very similar. And I know one of the things that we've worked on here and they've worked on at least at the Ohio State house level is those manufacturing jobs. And the skill set that has to go along with that is a little off script here, but can you talk a little bit about that? So not just the, the jobs themselves, but the workforce element.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean look, we're in a really exciting time in this country, um, because technology is driving a lot of development overall. So I'll just give you one example right in, in Ohio and I'm based here in Columbus, Ohio, uh, the world headquarters of the American Edge project right here in the heart the Silicon Heartland. Um, right. We have a lot of different data centers coming in, we have intel coming in. So those are not only creating jobs for incredibly skilled engineers and doctorates in, of computer uh, science, but it's also creating a lot of jobs in the building and construction trade sector because you have to build those giant facilities, you have to keep them cool, you have to maintain them. And so we need to make sure that our entire workforce here in Ohio and across the country and is getting the skills it needs to meet the demands of um, this booming technology age. Because it's not just white collar workers, it's not just your scientist, it's, everybody's going to benefit from this. And, but we got to make sure that we have the workforce and the team on this. And so for those that may be displaced by some technologies, we got to make sure that they're retrained, um, and upskilled so that they can contribute in a way that keeps a high paying job for them that makes them part of this exciting time, um, and that continues to support their family and their communities.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's so interesting because I know you spent a lot of time uh, working on and thinking about AI and I think the knee jerk reaction, um, and we've talked about it on this show too, is to think uh, about all the negatives but you just listed out a lot of positives there from a uh, workforce and a human element, uh, to the AI. Boom.

Speaker C: Yeah, so AI, so, so you said I was an old friend and I, I think I am, but I'm 60, uh, or I'll be 60 in March. Right. So, uh, so I'm old enough to remember when the Internet first started right. In the, in the late 1990s, um, and everybody really didn't know quite what it was, right? Is it going to stick? Is it going to be around? There was articles in Newsweeker Time about this. Internet is just all overblown. Um, well, 20 years later, right. It's fundamentally transformed, uh, global commerce, global communications, et cetera.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So when I look at artificial intelligence, I'm like, holy cow. This is like that Internet growth period on steroids. This is the single most powerful technology compressed into your freaking cell phone, Greg. Like, this is. This is amazing that we have these technology right, on our phones where essentially the Internet comes on your, uh, device and you could ask it any single question. Yeah. Sometimes it gets things wrong. Right. But it's not only a tool for, um, you know, manufacturing and other businesses to speed up the processes to increase efficiencies, et cetera. But just from a personal standpoint, this thing is going to lead to additional healthcare cures, that's going to lead to cleaner energy through accelerating breakthroughs in nuclear fusion, which gives us abundant, clear, clean energy. Um, but also, just from a family standpoint, this can become a powerful personalized tutor for your child if they're in a really terrible school district. Right. There's already been shown this. Right. Um, this is a way for people to kind of upskill themselves in the privacy of their own home of how do I. Using these chat engines, how do I better do X, Y and Z? Or please tell me more about this element of job that I'm really struggling with. And these are resources we just didn't have before, or if you did, you had to go on the Internet and you'd have to dig around a whole bunch of stuff. And so these can become powerful mentoring tools in some ways, um, by just a question based, uh, back and forth with it, that's really going to help increase the cumulative knowledge of our country. Yeah.

Speaker B: And we have talked in different angles about that impact that AI has on business on the show. What we haven't really talked about, and I think a lot of what you're involved in is the impact on America in particular, or we can expand it and say any country. When the AI and the technology is developed and deployed and utilized by other countries and economies outside of whatever, you know, whatever that core country you're in. Um, you know, from, from your perspective, do we have to, do we have to develop our own. Do we have to make others better? Do, you know, sort of, what's the magic sauce there to. To make sure that we're, um, utilizing it in the best way possible?

Speaker C: Great question. The single most important thing that America can do with artificial intelligence is to make sure that we win the AI race with China. Um, look, let's face it, um, in the 1950s and 60s, the Soviet Union was our biggest strategic competitor. China is that person right now. Except it's a full spectrum competitor where it's got a strong military, it's got a great technological workforce, it's got a strong economy, and they are pressing us and challenging us for global leadership.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and ten years ago they launched a three part plan to become global technology leader. They're investing $1.4 trillion in constructing the technologies of the future. So AI, quantum computing. The second thing they're doing is what they can't build, they're stealing from us. We lose each year about $500 billion in tech and trade secrets from this country alone to China. And the third thing they're trying to do is to make the world increasingly dependent on their technologies so that they have economic and geopolitical leverage. Now why does that matter? Why does that matter? Because our countries have two very different fundamental sets of values, right? America on openness, accessibility and expression. And China is built, um, not the Chinese people, but the Chinese government is built on censorship, control, um, and manipulation. And those values are embedded in the country's technology. And so it's important that America export its version of technology and that the world use that. So there isn't censorship, so there isn't, um, uh, control of populations so that American values disperse and are spread across the globe and are reinforced. So there's really high stakes on here. But at the end of the day, it fundamentally comes down to who do you want to build the future? Do you trust an American made future or do you trust a CCP made future going forward? Yeah.

Speaker B: Fascinating. Doug, that's so good. Tell me, um, because I want to learn more about, uh, American Edge project. And so I had a question here where I wanted to get your take on sort of the administration as it stands now, the Trump White House, the Republican led, uh, houses of Congress, but maybe take that in part with what you all are focusing on and if you have any specific, uh, policy items that you think are critical that need to happen the next four to eight years. That's probably too long to talk about. But what are those things that you're working on and really pushing, uh, right out of the gate, given where we

Speaker C: are politically, uh, right on the money. Um, look, with new administration, there always comes a new opportunity. Um, right. And so I'll link this back to the space race, right? We, when the Soviets first sent up, uh, Sputnik, um, that shocked Americans, said holy cow, this, this other country is, is ahead of us in a certain area. So President Kennedy responded with this big bold vision of we're going to go to the moon and back in less than a decade. But really what he did was he focused the country on a shared national mission to accelerate innovation. That's what President Trump, or President Trump has right now that he can do with this Congress. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: How do we make sure that we are number one in AI and all of the other strategic technologies so that we beat China over the next decade and make sure that our technological supremacy endures in the future? So there's a handful of steps that we are urging the President and Congress to do along with Democrats, because everybody's got a stake in this, right? And states also have a big stake in this. The first thing is to make sure that we're uh, passing policies that help accelerate innovation, um, not just in AI, but in other areas as well. So that means things like research and development, tax credits, uh, public private partnerships, funding different institutions and universities for highest level research that doesn't have to be commercialized right away. And it's creating a favorable uh, legal and regulatory environment so that businesses have certainty about what they're trying to do. That you know, the FTC is not going to say, hey, we're going to investigate this merger you did 10 years ago. Because businesses need to have certainty on these things.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And so that, that supportive legal and regulatory framework is really essential for the success of our country. So the, so that's part one is accelerating innovation. Part two is the, these technologies take a lot of energy. Right. Uh, and so for, of our goals we have to have expanded energy sources, kind of an all of the above approach of nuclear, of uh, fossil fuels, of solar, of um, any other type of renewal. Right. We have to be able, and the third part we have to do is we have to be able to transmit that power to where people need it. Right. Our, our, our grid in many places is it maxed out places. And from a regulatory reform standpoint, I was reading this one article, uh, today that you know, China is a top down dictatorship. Um, it can just say we're going to build these transmission lines from here to there and we're going to do it in two years.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: There's one example in America where it took 18 years to get the approval to build transmission lines from power source to the place that they needed. 18 years. That's insane. That's a Generation.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: That kind of permitting reform and acceleration of our ability to move, um, energy to where it's needed is really critical if we're going to be the data center capital of the world. And I would say the fourth thing, Greg, that we focus on is making sure that our workforce is trained for these jobs going forward. Um, China already has the big advantage example, big advantage of us overall. Right. They, they graduate more than 3 million graduates in science, technology, engineering and mathematics every year. More than 3 million. We do maybe 800,000. Um, wow. Uh, so they've got a huge manpower advantage over us as well. So we have to do, in short term, we have to make sure that we have the talent here, um, to make sure we don't have a gap. But then also long term, we have to really invest in our schools in um, you know, in scholarships and other things like that that can help tap the talent wherever it lives. Right. Not just in the cities, not just in area it like if you're not, not just in the cybers too. Right. We got to make sure that the kid, uh, from rural Appalachia, who could potentially be an amazing programmer or a great AI scientist, we want to make sure that they're in the game and they see this as an opportunity for themselves.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So those are kind of had four policy things. That's what we focus on.

Speaker B: So Doug, uh, what you're saying is when my daughter was screaming at me this morning because she hated doing her math homework, I should tell her the future of America depends on her figuring out her equations. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. And you can say, look, don't believe me because I'm just your dad. Right. But listen to my podcast and what this. That's right, exactly. Because my daughter listens to every other dad. She doesn't listen to me.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, perfect. She'll listen to you, Doug. That I'm sure that'll happen. Um, you know, so interestingly, I think, uh, and you probably know, you know this from a geopolitical perspective better than I, I do. But I, I think that one of the advantages that we do have is the, you know, set, set aside those legal and regulatory hurdles that you were talking about. But the, but the unfettered, uh, sort of talent, that is talent potential in private business. Right. Because you don't have that in a communist controlled country like China. Um, one of the things we talk about here and the reason, uh, you know, we ended up calling this champions and challengers is because you, you have entrepreneurial startups, businesses, you have sort of, uh, old line incumbent companies that, you know, know how to do really hard big things and they've been doing it a long time. Um, how important is the, is the intersection of those two type of companies for what you're talking about here?

Speaker C: Oh, it's absolutely imperative. Right. So, um, you know, what we talk about is the importance of, uh, America's innovation ecosystems. And I say plural because innovation isn't just happening in Silicon Valley, in the, in the east coast anymore. Right. It's any community. And we have many of them in Ohio here where you're bringing talent, ideas, capital and entrepreneurial spirit together to create new ideas and then launching them out. Um, we've launched another number of unicorns out of this community here because we have really good talent, because we have really smart longer term investors, and because we've got great entrepreneurs here. Um, and so, you know, for us that, that innovation ecosystem is really essential and big companies and small companies play an essential role in that. Together. We don't have to choose between, say, large tech companies and small tech companies because both are innovating. A lot of the, a lot of the smaller companies who can't raise the capital they need are getting funded by the larger tech companies because they're, the tech companies are saying, look, we understand the stakes here. We don't beat China in these areas, we're not going to win. And uh, yeah, sometimes they do it because they want to acquire them later, but other times they're just trying to accelerate a technology out of the box because it's something that they don't have at that point.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker C: So both of them play a really critical role in our overall innovation success.

Speaker B: And when you do talk about those, uh, those legal and regulatory hurdles, I think, you know, the, the important thing from my perspective, especially with the smaller companies is, you know, this is a maybe overused term, but allow them to fail fast. Right. Because this is gonna, um, this is not easy. If it were easy, anybody would do it. And it's gonna take, it's gonna take a lot of failures, uh, before we get to the, the unicorns.

Speaker C: Well, I mean, for me, the, the challenge over the last handful of years has been the administration did not look at our tech companies as national champions who were essential franchise player in us beating China. Yeah. Uh, and folks from the FTC and the Department of Justice, they looked at them with targets on their back saying, yeah, they're bad, they're, they're too big. They're, uh, you know, whatever else they say, right. Europe looks at our companies, the Same way as well.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, well, there's a new regime in town in America that says, look, these are our national champions, and if we're going to win this, if we're going to win the super bowl of technology, then we better let our quarterback throw the ball. We better let a running back do whatever he needs to do and not say, hey, you can't run faster than 10 miles an hour. You can't throw the ball more than five yards down the field. And so smart regulation that addresses real risk but doesn't try to handcuff and dictate the sector. That's what we're trying to do. And so, you know, with Europe, we don't still have that yet. Right. Europe passes a lot of regulation. This typically targets the largest tech companies in America with onerous new regulations and, and billions of dollars of fines. But some of those same constraints are not applied to their own companies in Europe, and they're not necessarily always applied to Chinese companies. So all that does is hurt American innovation. And fundamentally, it hurts European businesses who don't benefit from the new cool tools that American tech companies would be sharing over there. Yeah, but I think with President Trump in Europe is now reevaluating their policies in those areas. Um, and, you know, he's not afraid to stand up for American interest. So.

Speaker B: Yeah, and poke where he needs to poke sometimes. Right.

Speaker C: You call it a poke. Others may call it a terror or a punch in the face. I don't know.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker C: Not afraid to stand up for American interests.

Speaker B: You know, so interestingly, with Europe in particular, and, you know, I know you're not, uh, necessarily, uh, ingrained in the insurance industry, but it's a lot of what I do. And there's, you know, the national association of Insurance Commissioners, all the state insurance commissioners come together and they try to, um, you know, my word, normalize policy across the states. Because, uh, especially in pnc, obviously it's very important that this, uh, that insurance gets regulated at the state level because of all the variances that happen with property casualty coverage. Um, they have, they do, you know, they do a lot of different things. One of the things they do really well, I think, has been to push back on Europe because Europe doesn't understand why we don't regulate with one blanket sort of suffocating, uh, uh, book of rules on the insurance industry. It almost sounds like having a complimentary type of thing like that for tech could be advantageous to America as well.

Speaker C: For some things, it's easier at the state level, but for the larger policy, things say, like privacy policies or, you know, R and D credits and things like that. It's much easier to do at the national level just because, uh, then companies are not dealing with a patchwork of different laws. Right. So just. Right. So in, uh.

Speaker B: And I guess, Doug, what I, you know what I was thinking. I agree with you on that. What I was thinking was that some. Some way to bring all of those different entities, whether they're a regulatory body or not, but all those entities together speaking with one voice, because that's what's been successful with the NAIC pushing back against. So, um, not only, you know, a strong president that, that, you know, is willing to punch people in the face once in a while, but then, you know, this sort of collective strength, you know, and, and maybe that's, you know, maybe. You tell me that's exactly what American Edge Project is.

Speaker C: Well, I would say, just from our governmental standpoint, which has some of the loudest voice with our European partners, uh, we haven't always been aligned from all the different agencies. Right. Sometimes the FTC pushes in a different direction than, say, the Commerce Department does. And so I think it's really important for our government, especially the federal government, to speak with a singular voice about the importance of American technology. When they're talking to Europe and other company and other countries who are considering, are they going to use more of Chinese technology, are they going to use more of American technology, and what's the regulatory structures that are going to try and do and create because they have as much at stake and their freedom and their national security and their economic prosperity is. We do. If we don't win that tech race. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: We're going to be here. They're going to be doubly hurt. Um, and so we want to make sure that as a country, we're speaking with a single voice to our allies, saying, look, we're building something big. It's going to be transformational. It's going to help accelerate democratic values all across the globe. And it's going to be good from a national security standpoint and an economic standpoint. And from a people standpoint, let's get in and push forward.

Speaker B: Doug, you and I are both Midwest, uh, boys, and I, you know, wouldn't, uh, I wouldn't hesitate to say, when you talk about our history in different areas with, you know, go back, uh, to World War II to, to the Cold, uh, War, you know, the, The Rust Belt certainly played a critical role in our successes there because of the manufacturing piece is There a, is there a tech belt per se, or an area that is, is really humming, uh, as far as this goes, or is it kind of spread out throughout the country?

Speaker C: I would say that it is varying state by state, but even within certain states that aren't known for their tech strength, there are robust innovation ecosystems within those states. And so for us, we want to make sure that there are many, there are as many innovative ecosystems around the country as possible because that's where you get new ideas from. That's where you get fresh, um, you know, new tech activity coming from. And then those small ideas that are built in a Columbus lab and funded by Columbus funders, those kings can launch on a national scale and then really help our country overall. And I'll just, I'll give a shout out to all the leadership, um, in Ohio, in Columbus, as well as the funding community, on the entrepreneurial community. This community is cooking with gas when it comes to technology leadership. Right, we landed the intel plant, we landed a big defense plant coming up. We've got great universities here, we've got great, uh, investment firms here. We, we have all of the secret sauce that we need to be the, the true, a true leader in innovation, uh, in America right here from Columbus, Ohio. And so this group has been doing a great job. Let's just keep it going.

Speaker B: Is that you, Doug? Is that something that I agree with you and is that something that, you know, fundamentally just comes down to sort of communication and coordination or in your opinion, is there something else that they're doing, uh, that has, that has resulted in this success?

Speaker C: I think part of it is they have a really long term vision. Right?

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker C: They can balance a long term vision with, okay, we know this may cost a certain amount of incentives right now, but we think over the long term, here's how that's going to benefit us. Short term jobs, long term will give us like, and will become an essential element of the supply chain. And, and then when you bring in these great places like intel, intel or um, the defense, uh, plant that's coming in, you get all of these other. There's a ripple effect that happens from smaller businesses that begin to grow there, other suppliers that begin to flourish from there, and that creates this kind of rising tide that lifts all boats, uh, in terms of economic growth and opportunity, uh, for everybody in that community. So Columbus is doing it right and we want to keep stepping on the gas.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, agreed. Shifting from sort of the government, you know, piece of it to the, to the private sector piece. What Is there anything, you know, that young entrepreneurs can do to grow sort of this AI and tech sector in America or are they doing the things that they need to be doing and we just need to help them along?

Speaker C: Uh, there's always more, right? So yeah, I would just say that when it comes to AI, there's two different approaches, right? There's a closed proprietary model and then there's an open source model. Right. Um, so clo and both have their value in, in America's long term tech future. So closed source source models are like Google's, you know, Gemini, it's like OpenAI and chat GPT and Meta is the big leader on open source technology and AI systems. Uh, both of them are essential. So I would say to the young entrepreneurs who have great ideas and that start, you don't have to pay a lot of money to start with. You can download some of these open source tools and build off of them and uh, you've got an idea that tech is right there, the tools are right there, you have this very powerful engine that you can then build your products off of and then launch it to a much larger market. And I would just caution people when it comes to even choosing like an open source tool, you need to choose an American one and not a Chinese one. Because there's just a bunch of articles yesterday about deep, uh, Seek. Right? Deep Seek is this Chinese AI engine that's kind of caught the world by storm, but it basically is that experts say it is a data data sieve of whatever you put it goes back to China, it's stored, um, in China and it extracts more data from your computer, including logging your keystrokes following you outside of the app than any other American AI system.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: So if you're building your business on top of a Chinese AI engine, just know your data is not secure. And you're right. You're.

Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. In the instruction manual for them, right?

Speaker C: Yes, exactly. And so, uh, why do. Because in the old days, Greg, right, a company want to do business in China. Part of the deal was there is you got to give us your intellectual property if you want to do business here. Well, ah, now they've got this AI engine. Guess what? You don't even have to build it there anymore. You build it right here and it goes over there. So be smart about that. Pick a secure one that doesn't do that, Right. I mean there's other options out there from open source that are not necessarily metas. Right. But be wise in what you're picking Great advice.

Speaker B: So what, um, is there anything. We might have answered this already, Doug, but is there anything that uniquely positions this country to lead in the space going forward? We've talked about, you know, all the things we've done so far and the, the pieces that, that you all are advocating for. But what is it about America that you think uniquely positions, uh, us in this space?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think there are two things. I think there's. There's our core values that position us in this space, as well as our just history of being an aspirational people. Right. We build big things. We take on tough challenges, whether it's the space race, whether it's winning World War II, whether it's, uh, you know, when in the arms race against the Soviet Union, whatever. Like when, when we are challenged, we rise to that challenge. Um, and our values are important because, you know, at the end of the day, innovation is, is a byproduct of openness, accessibility, expression, being able to explore different ideas and exchange different ideas. And that's not necessarily China's wheelhouse right there. Yeah, you know, you, you can have freedom in China up to a certain level, but after that you can't because their whole system is built on censorship and control. Um, and so I think making sure that we're always true to our American values and making sure that we are being aspirational enough. In what? In the role that America needs to play globally and the role that our technology needs to play in delivering freedom for everybody around this globe.

Speaker B: Being aspirational and sticking to your core values is a pretty good, uh, a pretty good mantra for anybody. So. So, Doug, in your opinion, and maybe I'll take this as a, as a two part. You can answer it, you know, separately or together, what's next in your mind for American tech and then, you know, specifically what's next for your organization?

Speaker C: Well, I'll just say on the American tech side, you know, this is my job to stay on top of tech news. Right.

Speaker B: Great.

Speaker C: So fast I can't stay on top of it. So it's a super exciting time for our country because we're innovating like crazy. We've got a fierce competition. Competition helps, uh, us become more, even more innovative and learn from others. And so I think, you know, a couple things. Uh, one, we want to make sure that as many companies as possible, big and small businesses, integrate AI into their operations. Right. So adoption of AI domestically is really important. And unfortunately, Americans aren't gung ho about that. Right. Even though there's all these Benefits. A recent survey showed that 90% of China's population was excited about the promise and potential of AI and we're excited about using it. The number in America is right around 30%. Right. And this is the technology of the future. And you know, if you look at the Internet history as any example, like we were the early adopters there and we a, uh, lot of benefit from that. So companies here, big or small businesses, explore with these tools, learn how to use them, et cetera. Um, so that's kind of just on the AI front. I think what's next for American tech is you're going to see different universities and different companies begin to leverage these AI tools to bring about even next generations of technologies like nuclear fusion, which Princeton is doing. They're using AI to model certain simulations so they can solve how do we contain this sun like heat within a plasma and identify before it breaks down. Right now if we win that race to get stable fusion in the globe, we will sell hundreds of billions of dollars of that across the globe because everybody wants that. So do we want that economic value or China? Um, and then I think quantum computing is the next big thing too. It's a really complicated field, but basically, if you think about the top supercomputers we have now, these are computers that are millions of times faster than that. And the reason why it's important that America get those first and we want to sell them to the world. But also essentially, when you have quantum computing commoditized, every existing code is breakable within seconds, including military encryption. And China's doing things that uh, in this space too. So everywhere we're pushing forward on, China's pushing forward on as well. So you know, what's next for tech? There's a lot and there's a big fight. And so policymakers have to really understand that our tech sector, tech leadership is led by the private sector, it's supported by the government sector. But this partnership between government industry is essential to our long term success.

Speaker B: That's great. All right, so we call this Podcast champions and challengers. And we like to ask all of our guests, and you can choose to defer if you'd like, but, uh, tell us about a champion that you've had in your journey, uh, and has gotten you where you are today. And then, ah, a challenge or, or two that is particularly defined who uh, you are.

Speaker C: Doug? Uh, sure, I would say a champion that I had. I guess these could probably, these could probably be combined. Right?

Speaker B: So maybe the same thing I've had. I'VE had some mentors like that. Both the champion and a challenge, right?

Speaker C: Yeah. So my. My brother, um, my older brother, he's three years older than I. Um, he was my champion all along. Right. When I couldn't see the potential myself, he saw it right away. And so in eighth grade, his summer vacation started. He woke me up at 6am and said, Come on, we're gonna go to the weight room and we're gonna lift weights with the football team. I'm like, I ain't going. And, uh, eventually he drugged me there. Right. And so. But I got to learn about the culture of the team, how. How to actually prepare yourself for a season. Like, so basically, everything I've done in my life has been built on that same type of get up early, work harder than everybody else, get the job done, and push yourself and extend yourself beyond what others will do. And so I'm always grateful to my brother Tim for doing that. And it wasn't just that area. He's academics, he challenged me, and et cetera. I would say that, um, one of the big challenges I've had to overcome is, uh, 12 years ago, um, he took his own life. Um, and, you know, nobody saw that coming. There's no history of mental illness. And so, you know, for me and our family, that was a devastating loss. And so the challenge I had to come over, overcome there was say, okay, how do I. How do I begin to fill that role that he had with his kids, with the rest of the family, to make sure that everybody's being supported in a way that they can? And then also, look, that was a senseless loss. There was no reason for that to happen. Right. But so how can we make everybody safer in that and feel safe in talking about, hey, I'm really struggling with X, Y and Z and get people out of that tunnel when they feel there's no other alternative that they can do? So I'm very open in talking about the loss of him. I'm very open encouraging people to, if you're feeling struggling, like, get. Reach out to the suicide hotlines, reach out to friends and families. Uh, and if you're just. If you're a friend of somebody on Facebook and you see them post something weird and seems like a goodbye thing, pick up the phone and call them and say, hey, I haven't talked to you next years. Um, but I saw something here. Are you okay? And is there anything I can do to help you? Because you'll be surprised at what that little bit of connection and reconnection can do in changing the course of somebody's life.

Speaker B: That's incredibly powerful. Thank you for sharing that, Doug. Um, we're going to wrap up, you know, tell people where they can find you, where they can find American Edge and, and anything else you'd like to share.

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. Uh, you can find all about my organization, American Edge project, the website americanedgeproject.org and you can follow us on Twitter and Facebook and, uh, take a look at our stuff. You'll get in the game. We want you part of our team. Sign up for updates and I'm really grateful for you having me today. Thank you, Greg.

Speaker B: That's fabulous. Thank you, Doug. Thanks, uh, everyone for listening. As always. Um, uh, tune in to our other podcasts. We try to post these the last Wednesday of every month. So give, uh, us a, like, give us a follow, as the kids say. And, um, we'll talk to you soon. Doug, thank you.

Speaker C: Take care. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to Champions and Challengers, produced by Bricker Graydon. Join Greg Listini and other Bricker Graden attorneys for our next podcast covering the latest fintech related legal topics. The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not reflect the views of Bricker Grayton. None, um, of the content included in this podcast is intended to be legal advice and does not create or imply an attorney client relationship.