How to Scale a Home Service Business to $260M Without Big Goals | Paul Kelly

Speaker A: If you don't know about Parker and Sons, you may have been sleeping under a rock. $260 million of revenue in one single year.

Speaker B: It wasn't a story of, hey, how do we get to 250 million? It was a story of how do we get better at something today better than we were yesterday?

Speaker A: What's like, the one or two things that you see business owners notoriously over complicating?

Speaker B: People make things complicated because it makes them feel like they have something that nobody else has. That's uh, not even close to the truth. If you go to raisinggoats.com and you sign up for the class, you're going to learn how to think. Simplicity.

Speaker A: We sign up for this thing, like, what does this week look like? What can I expect if I were to sign up?

Speaker B: You're going to leave a different person. I, uh, guarantee it.

Speaker A: I just don't know if I can stomach that price.

Speaker B: If you don't think you can, don't come. You're not going to be a goat anyway.

Speaker A: Foreign. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Can't Stop the Growth. I'm, um, your host, Chad Peterman. And today I have the distinct honor of having, uh, someone who I've looked up to for many years, uh, on the podcast. And, uh, he's helped me with a ton of things. Uh, we've ran into each other here and there and uh, just really excited to have him on, uh, one to talk about, uh, the success that he's had, which someone may correct me out there, but I think, uh, it may be, uh, one of the largest and most successful kind of single brand, uh, H vac, plumbing and electrical companies, uh, in the entire country, uh, which I think anytime we can talk to someone, uh, who, uh, with the help of their team has been able to create something like that. Um, I think that there's always knowledge to be gleaned and something to be learned. And then most importantly, um, obviously, uh, a lot of you listeners are not going to be his size tomorrow, uh, or maybe next year. Um, but, uh, I think what he's doing, uh, with the program that he's founded, um, that I'm actually a part of, um, and grateful, uh, to be a part of, to help as many people as possible. Um, I think talking a little bit about, uh, what he's created and how it may be able to help you as a contractor, really regardless of size, um, I think is incredibly important. So, uh, without further ado, would like to welcome to the podcast Mr. Paul Kelly. How are you doing, Mr. Kelly?

Speaker B: Oh, I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Thanks, uh, for having me on, Chad. It's an honor. And um, as many good things as you said about me in that short little intro, um, I can say the same about you. I know your audience knows you well, but you're, uh, you're one of the goats in our industry and I, I uh, look up to you a lot.

Speaker A: Well, I appreciate that. That means, that means a lot. And um, yeah, just appreciate you spending some time on here. Hopefully help out the listeners with, uh, with kind of how you thought about building, uh, you know, Parker and Sons out there in the, uh, in the Phoenix area. And then, uh, like I said, also kind of diving into to what you're, uh, what you're up to now. Always, uh, a man on the move, uh, where you could be, could be relaxing. Uh, you're still getting after it, which is, uh, which is no surprise there. Um, let's start with, with the business. Parker and Sons. I'm sure people have heard about it. Um, it's, uh, it's pretty known if, if you don't know about Parker and Sons, you may have been sleeping under a rock, uh, for a while. You guys are, I don't even know how big you guys are Now. It's over 200 million. It may be even bigger than that.

Speaker B: We'll do, uh, 260 plus million.

Speaker A: Uh, 260 plus million. And that's primarily in the Phoenix market. I know you guys maybe as well.

Speaker B: Tucson. Um, yeah, but, uh, but yeah, most, most all that's in Phoenix.

Speaker A: Okay, so when you say that out loud, you guys, you know, we all started somewhere and those goals, you know, seem, seem crazy. Um. Does that even sound crazy to you? $260 million of revenue in one single year.

Speaker B: It sounds really crazy. A lot of people ask me, they, they said, well, you must have had, you know, because we started at 7 million in uh, 2004. And um, we always grew 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 million a year. Uh, then all of a sudden grew 10 million a year. And then here more lately, we've been growing 20, 31 year. 40 million in a year, uh, in 2022. So 20 million, 30 million in a year just is, uh, part of who we are now. I would have never woke up, never when I bought the company would I have ever have dreamed of, uh, being that large of a company. Which is the great story is when we were at 7 million, I was just trying to make payroll and uh, try and get to 8. And when we were at 8, I wanted to get to 9 and 9 to 10. Now it didn't work that way. We started accelerating, but, uh, no, I would have never, ever, ever thought that, uh, we would be this story that, uh. Not me. It wasn't me. It was a whole bun people, a whole bunch of people created in our industry. I think it is the largest company of its kind, uh, in America in the home services business, uh, especially in a single market.

Speaker A: So, yeah, absolutely. Um, I heard you say this when we were out in Vegas, um, whenever that was, uh, times of flying. I think it was February. Uh, we were out there and I had the, uh, pleasure, uh, you were on stage before I was. And so I got in there early to listen, uh, to your talk, uh, can always learn something. You said that, um, your trucks cover about 26,000 miles a day. Uh, that's a lot of driving. I'm sure there's an accident or two along the way. Um, but I guess if we're talking to a listener, that's, you know, obviously a smaller company than yours. As you were growing, when did, when did kind of, um, like the scale really hit you? Like, oh my. Like we got there. There's something here, and we've got some, maybe some holes or some areas improvement. Like when did you notice, like, the, the scale of the business really kind of taking. Taking hold?

Speaker B: You know, it was, it was, it was really about 2017, um, is when we really started taking off. And again, we always grew 7, 6, 7, 8 million a year. And that's remarkable by itself. But when you can start growing 20, 30, 40 million a year, that started in 2017. Part of that was, ah, a gentleman that we hired named Daryl Bingham. Uh, part of it. My daughter started in the marketing department. We changed up a lot of things. Part of it was, um, just doing things differently. And we never concentrated. A lot of people think like, I'm only a million or I'm 5 million or I'm 10 million. How do I relate to this, uh, this Paul Kelly story? I can tell you that, uh, the money, the revenue was never the goal. Um, we just really. You've heard of the phrase, uh, death by a thousand paper cuts. Um, we had success by a thousand little things that we did, real little. Uh, every day we got better at something. And if every department and every person picks that philosophy, which we have, um, then you look back one day and you hardly recognize yourself. But it happens, uh, in very, very small increments. And that's the beauty of our Story is that really anybody can do this if they don't concentrate on the numbers. A lot of, a lot of people say, you know, watch your KPIs, and we do, um, watch your revenue. And we do. And there's certain things we look at that's not what we talk about. We don't talk about average ticket, we don't talk about turnovers, uh, or system leads. We don't talk about our revenue. We talk about actions and activity that we can get better at. And uh, we try and get a little bit better at them every day. And that momentum then translates into the story that we created. But it wasn't a story of, hey, how do we get to 250 million? It was a story of how do we get better at something today, uh, better than we were yesterday. And uh, that, that culture, uh, of getting better, uh, permeated throughout the organization and that's what led us to the growth that we had.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I think too, it's such a great point that the goal was never 250. I think so many people get caught up in today's of like, oh, I got to be this big, I got to be that big, I got to keep getting bigger and stuff like that. And I think that's where people miss kind of that, uh, you know, and this isn't to minimize what you guys have accomplished, but my guess is if you went inside a $250 million business, you guys are operating by a lot of the same principles. A $5 million company should operate by you just doing it at scale and you're just running more calls. And I think that speaks to, I guess when I, you know, I talked about at the outset what you're doing now, this raising goats, um, kind of program and how you're helping all of these contractors. Is, is that kind of the thought? You started this? Like, yes, I'm at this scale, but I still can help contractors at about any size because it's all about the blocking and tackling.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's exactly what, what I did. I tried to go back and as I semi retired, I'm not really involved in the day to day anymore at Parker and Sons. Uh, Daryl runs it. Um, but I enjoy this business and I enjoy helping people and that, you know, um, and I tried to think of, well, if I could be this goat in the industry, couldn't a whole lot of other people be a goat? And I started thinking through, well, what actually did make me successful and others in Parker and Sons, and I broke it down to four pillars, uh, being a better thinker, being a better implementer, a better operator, and a better leader. And those are the four pillars of what I started thinking about. And I tried to. I didn't want to, uh, I didn't want to do it or put something together if it sounded like. If it looked like. If it was like everything else out there. So I tried to figure out, how could I teach somebody in a relatively short period of time? Sometimes it takes years. Through mentors and going through the right classes and getting the right coaches and this, that, and the other. How could I take somebody in this short period of time in one class and then in one year, some ongoing training? But after that time period, they are a way better thinker, way better implementer. We all know those are the two. I get the most excited about the operations. I share a lot of the secret sauce, so to speak. It's not a secret. It's the. Some of the stuff. I put a little different twist on everything. Uh, I'm all about simplicity and, um, being a better leader. But to me, it's about the thinking and the implementing, um, and how do you think through problems and how do you think through the challenges that you need, and how do you implement? Many contractors, they can go to as many seminars or conferences or get coaches as much as they want. Uh, they just can't implement. And I figured out some, uh, some keys that helped us along the way, and I share those in the class. And in that class, you will walk away a better thinker and a better implementer, operator and leader. And that was my goal of how do I share this? How do I make a bunch of goats? You're a goat. Um, you know, maybe I'm a goat. Tommy, um, Mello is a part of it. He's a go. Cristiano, my son, is part of it. Um, we've got, you know, Drew Cameron, we've got Brigham, um, and they do, uh, pieces of it. I. I do a lot of it. And, uh, I wanted to figure out how to get way more goats in this industry that have a great story in it. It doesn't have to be a story of getting to 250 million or even 100 million. Um, it can be, uh, but it might be just getting the 5 million or 10 million or 20 million. Um, and you can be your own goat in that respect. So that's what the class and the ongoing training is all about. And I love. I love seeing the success. We've. We've only had one class. We had 32. I limited it to 30, uh, two contractors. And, uh, because I've got to put my time and energy afterwards into these people as well, along with the other goats. And I want to make sure that we give the time and the energy and the expertise that they need and hold them accountable to, uh, implementing the things that they learned in the class.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. And, uh, kudos to you. I think we're in. I always tell people I'm so fortunate to be in this space because I feel like there's so many people sharing, uh, their knowledge and open and receptive, whether it's come visit my shop or doing things like this or putting on classes like you're doing. Um, but I think that the crux of it is what you said is these businesses are simple. They're not easy, but they're simple. There's a lot of simple things we can do, uh, to improve our business. What? Uh, you know, you said you hosted one class. Obviously you've talked to owners forever in a day. What's like, the one or two things that you see business owners, like, notoriously over complicating? Like, you guys are way overthinking this. Like, uh, maybe we can provide a lot of value of people that are, like, sitting there going, oh, yeah, we overcomplicate that because we're just as guilty of it here. Uh, we'll overcomplicate something. We, like, like find a problem that we overcorrect and then we're correcting back and so on and so forth. Like, what do you see that, uh, a listener may be able to take from, from this and go, okay, we need to, we need to unravel this and make it a lot simpler.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I could, I could hop into any subject right now because, because really, the beauty of how I think and the beauty of what made Parker successful, um, is simplicity. Uh, simplicity to me is everything. Um, the more simple a concept is, the more repeatable it can become. The, the more scalable that it will be for you. And people do make things complicated. They like eight step processes or ten step processes, or if you say this, then you say this, and then you say this, and then you over and over. I'm not that guy. I'm not. I'm not somebody who can one, remember all that. And two, it might not be who I am or, uh, you know, it's just too complicated. So I, I narrow down. I, um. And you're. You would learn this if, if you go to raisinggoats.com and you sign up for the class, you're going to learn how to think simplicity and, uh, help that in your business. But it's anything from, you know, from answering the phone, uh, and making sure you answer it. AI can help you now. But, uh, but AI is not as good as your best csr. Um, and, uh, and, and teaching them, you know, what we're really trying to accomplish on the phone to what holds a lot of people back is, you know, they always say, well, I could grow a lot if I could only find great text. There's just a shortage of text. I can't find good text. Um, and it can be as simple as you're not spending enough time trying to find good text. You know, I think the answer to finding good text lies in, you know, spending more time, money or effort or energy on it. And if you spend very little time on it, you know, what in life do you spend almost no time doing? You want to learn Spanish, you got to immerse yourself. You got to get into it, you got to spend some time on it. You're not going to read a book or go to one class and know Spanish. Well, it's the same way with hiring techs. You gotta, you gotta figure out how to spend more time, money and energy on it. Those are some of the simplistic things, but we actually teach some methods in order to attract text and, uh, uh, how to do that. Now, I don't think there's a shortage of text. I think there's a shortage of good text. I think there's a shortage during two or three months out of the year of tax during your busiest times. But for the most part, we have plenty of text. Uh, all the work that gets, that needs to get done gets done fairly timely, except for maybe two or three months out of the year. Um, but there is a shortage of good text and, uh, there's a shortage of texts that wow customers. I, uh, asked this in the class, what percentage of your, of your calls you run are a wow. And I hear numbers in the 10%, 15%, 20% range, 5%. It's pretty low. I, I go through in the class how to wow someone and what and how important that is. And just wowing customers leads to other customers. That's as simple as it gets. But you gotta, you gotta wow them. And, uh, that customer has to walk away saying, holy wow. That was unbelievable that I've never experienced a call like that, a service like that. I'm going to call Parker and Sons. In fact, I'm Going to ask for Joe, um, anytime I need something, because Joe was a wow. And that's what I want. So there's things like that, uh, we share, um, that we go through and how to create that. And when you start doing that, it becomes fun. And when it's fun, you'll start growing. You won't need to worry about it. Uh, you'll start growing. Um, and so those are some of the things that. That we teach and that I love to talk about.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing that. Um, I guess if you had to boil it down, I always say to myself, like, getting in this business, I never thought I'd have to be a. I never thought I'd have to learn so much psychology, uh, about why people are doing things and, uh, you know, what's their. What are they actually saying, and so on and so forth. On this. On this topic of making things complicated, I guess in your time, why. Why do you feel like we try to make things complicated? Like, why do you, you know, if you're thinking about some of your students, like, why are they trying to make things so complicated within their business?

Speaker B: I think it starts with, uh. And I know you're not like this. I'm definitely not like this. As I talk to the goats that are part of raising goats, or just the goats in our industry, they're not like this. They love simplicity. I think people make things complicated because it makes them feel like they have something that nobody else has. Some of the trainers in our industry love making things complicated because, um, they. It makes them more valuable to somebody. But the exact opposite is what's true to me is when you can make something so simple. Uh, Daryl's good at this. Um, who runs Parker now, He can take something and just call it down to something so simple that I just start laughing my ass off. And. And it was like, oh, my God, that's so simple. And I love those kind of things, Simplicity. And so I think people make things complicated because they think they can, and they think that makes them more valuable, and they think that's something that, uh. And look, if. If you did these eight steps, it does work. It's not that it doesn't work, it's just that no one. You can't teach a whole bunch of people eight steps and then adopt that and run with it and do it well and be consistent with it. And so I like one step. Um, everything I do is about one, maybe two steps. Um, I like one, though, one thing that we're going to do, and then you can layer on something else. But I think that's why people make things complicated. They, uh, think that the world is that way and that. That it needs to be that way to be successful. That's not even close to the truth.

Speaker A: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Uh, simple is always better. Um, and, uh, when it gets too complicated, I think that, uh, you don't ever get the buy in that you need. So your complicated process never gets ran anyway. And the unfortunate part about our businesses and the home service is now there is technology that can help us with that is, uh, we can roll out this complicated process in the morning, and then our technicians go into a black hole. Uh, and we never know that if it's actually being ran, uh, or how well it's being ran. Um, and I, uh, think too, from a customer's perspective, when we have these really complex processes, we not only confuse our own people, we confuse the customer. Um, and a confused mind says no. Um, and so, you know, trying to present options and do all of this stuff, if we make it too comple. Complicated, ultimately the messaging gets lost and no one's really sure what we're actually here trying to fix. Uh, and the customer's not sure what actually needs to be fixed. Um, and so I think it's just kind of an, uh, endless spiral, um, of things. Um, the other question I want to ask you, just because you've coached, obviously in the Raising Goats, uh, program, but you've probably coached, I don't know, hundreds of contractors at this point, just hitting you up for a question or something like that. You talk about simplicity. How do you kind of teach people to have big goals? Um, I'm sure you've got them. The guy who's, you know, 2. 2 million and gonna be 30 next year. Um, like, how do you, how do you kind of retrain that mindset, um, in those people of having big goals is, Is great. Um, we all have them. Um, but it's probably more important to focus on the smaller, smaller things that are building blocks that are going to get you there.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that I'm a small goal person. I'm not really a big goal person. I don't. They say, like, you know, reach for the stars and you'll. You'll hit the moon. But I don't know how to reach for the stars, and the stars are too far out there. And, you know, I like, you know, uh, reaching for the next rung on the ladder and pulling myself up and then the next one and the next one and Then, you know, one day you look back down and you're closer to the moon than you were before. But for me, small goals. And, uh, because I like to celebrate when I get something done. If I want to lose weight, um, it's in my book Tricks of the Trade to Success. If I want to lose weight, I, I don't have a goal of losing 15 or 20 pounds. I want to lose one pound by tomorrow. I can do that. I can bite that one off. I can. It's a. It's a small sacrifice. It's not some huge life change. Uh, and then when I accomplish that goal, then I'm going to lose another one by the next day or, uh, two days later. And I like, I like small goals. Uh, I found that most people can handle small goals and they can accomplish them quickly. Part of what, uh, everyone will learn is speed at which you implement something. Speed at which a goal, uh, can be accomplished is so important. The faster you can get something done, the more likely you are to get it done and to get it done right. Things that take forever or a year or several months just don't happen, do they? Things that we can accomplish today or tomorrow, and we're done with that, and we got that one down. Those, those are the kind of goals I like. And then you start gaining the momentum that you need. Momentum is a culture all by itself. Um, and so that's, uh, um, that's something that, uh, my son, uh, talks about and I know, wants to write about. Uh, so it is. It is about those things. I'm a small goal person, and, uh, uh, I'll always be.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. Um, yeah, I think it's so true. It's. How can you break this big goal down into the small ones? Uh, because when you break it down in the small ones, you actually get started, um, and the best day to start something new is today. Um, and then I think it's much like you said at the beginning, when you focus on those small goals day in and day out, uh, you wake up and all of a sudden there's a $260 million company running. Uh, but you never looked at. You never, you never were focused on the big prize. It was always, how do we win today, how do we do a little bit more tomorrow and the next day and the next day, Which I think is just such great advice, um, for any entrepreneur, um, that's looking to start something new and leading a group of people, uh, is, we've got to find those small wins, uh, so that we can keep that momentum and keep our uh, uh, keep our head in the game for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. Or, or in life. It doesn't have to be in business. It can be with a relationship, it can be with your health, it can be small goals and accomplishing them quickly and moving on to your next goal. That's uh, that's what life's all about.

Speaker A: Love it. Um, let's, let's dive back a little bit to, to kind of some of the, some of the practical, kind of like business advice where listeners can take uh, a few tidbits, um, kind of a purview into uh, if you will. Um, one of the things you talk about is, you know, early on you weren't necessarily focused on chasing new customers. Uh, it was more so about how to provide that wow experience, uh, so that you could gain more uh, potential wallet share from your current customers who already know like and trust you. You already buy. We talk about this. We already bought the customer once. Uh, let's not go buy more. Let's just see if we can just keep making this one happy. Um, where, where are like kind of those. I guess this is more of a, like a cross selling or just kind of offering more services. Question, like, where do you see um, owners leaving money on the table with their current base and it's all about new leads. I need more leads, so on and so forth.

Speaker B: Yeah. One of the first things I love to do when I go to a, uh, company is I like to go into the CSR area and figure out what's really going on because sometimes the owner doesn't know. And what I often find is that sometimes these companies are losing as much business as they're getting just on the phone. And that can happen by not answering the phone, uh, timely enough where people hang up, that can happen where you're not booking the calls. Um, and then at Parker and Sons we like to take every call and make it two calls or three calls. We do that by ending every call with some other opportunities. If they called in for H Vac, they're going to get a plumbing pitch maybe, or maybe electrical. Um, and it's going to be specific things, you know, not do you got any plumbing needs, do you happen to have any slow running drains, any leaky faucets, any running toilets, or do you happen to ever run out of hot water? Most people have one of those four. And so you, and you end up booking a plumbing call along with an H vac call. Might even throw in an electrical call. So you're Trying to take the business you already get and make more out of it. And that's just in the call center. And then when your texts go out, you want them to be doing the right things, you want them to be thorough, you want them to present options, you want them to have a wow experience with the customer. And if they do that, then, uh, the biggest litmus test I think, uh, that you did a great job is will, when they call in the next time, will they ask for you by name? Um, that to me, is that what customer satisfaction is all about. When they ask for you by name, they trust you, they loved you, you wowed them. Um, and so those are the kinds of things that I always concentrated on. And hey, we, we fell down and continue to fall down sometimes just like any other company on being, you know, good enough on those things. But that's where I love spending a lot of time, is making more out of the business you already get. And, um, and then that average ticket goes up, that close rate goes up, your booking rate goes up, all these KPIs start going up. And then you're, you know, now, now the advertising is making sense. And now every dollar that you spend in advertising, uh, that produces a call, you're getting more from it. And you can get this snowball effect going, uh, of every call that comes in is worth more. And so that's what we did really well at Parker and Sons and continue to do well. And, uh, that's where I tell people to start before they worry about making the phone ring more. Um, we have ways to do that, but, uh, start with a business you already have and try and figure out how to get more out of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think that's a great point. The one thing that, uh, I made a note of here that, um, I was also going to provide the listeners with. Something that we've learned is, uh, you mentioned when customers call back in and they ask for a tech by name. I, um, think this is important too on the, uh, everyone's looking to increase the number of reviews they get. Um, and the one thing I would tell you that we've learned is have your technician or field professional out there ask for the customer to review them, to review me. Build, um, the service tech, don't review the company because people don't have attachments to company. And you likely just spend an hour or two, this person's most sacred place, their home. Um, and if they really loved you and enjoyed you, uh, the best thing you can say to them is, hey, it Would really mean a lot if you could leave a review about me and my service today. Um, and also, if you ever have any other issues, please call in and ask for me by name. I'd be happy to come back out here.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah. And then leave clues. Leave clues of your name on stickers, business cards. Um. I love what you just said. Um, that to me, if anybody's listening to this podcast, uh, I mean, what we're talking about right now is golden. Is golden.

Speaker A: Yeah. All very simple things. That's a very simple process. It's one sentence. Just ask them to review you, not the company. So, uh, we're all about simplicity here. Um, obviously, Parker and Sons, uh, has seen tremendous growth. Um, you've mentioned Darrell, uh, a couple of times. I've had the fortune of to spend some time with Daryl, a tremendous person. Uh, and obviously, operator. Um, what did. What would you say, looking back? I mean, obviously you don't build a company of your size without having great people. Um, he being one of them. Um, what, uh, what did kind of bringing Daryl on, obviously he was taking on, maybe not at the outset, but taking on a role that was going to kind of, you know, kind of relieve you of some of the duties and have someone else make call the shots, uh, for a company that you'd been pretty darn good at calling the shots for. Uh, what, uh, what was that like? Uh, as far as that kind of. That transition and allowing him to kind of take the reins, uh, of things as you brought him in.

Speaker B: You know, it's, ah, it's an interesting story, and I won't get too, too deep into it, but, um, but, you know, Daryl worked at George Brazil for George Brazil for many, many years. And, um, uh, George, before he died, had promised Daryl something that didn't happen, um, you know, before George passed, and it didn't happen after George passed either. So Daryl, uh, and I met. And it was funny because Daryl, when we were at lunch, was trying to convince me to start an electrical department. Um, and I said, well, Darrell, it's not. If I'm going to hire you, I'm hiring you. I don't want you to start electrical yet. You will one day, but I want you to help me do some things. And I knew that if Daryl could oversee the operations, that would free me up to, uh, concentrate on driving revenue even further. Um, so what we did was, uh, I let Daryl run the operations, and I took everything on the revenue side. That included the call center, that included staffing, that included marketing, of course. Uh, Retail, Home Depot, Costco, uh, we're in Lowe's now too. But um, it included all the revenue generating things, sales, because uh, I knew if I had more time and energy I could accelerate that. And that's when we started growing uh, 20, 30, 40 million in a year. Um, and so Daryl really freed me up to do some things that I love doing, uh, while he did it. Now he's good at other stuff too, but ah, that was the one, two punch that we kind of needed to accelerate the growth. So yeah, for anybody out there that, you know, you're thinking of your number one right hand person, um, or maybe you're hiring that person, that, that person. Sometimes it's not what, what they do, uh, directly. It could be them just freeing up time that you can concentrate on things that you're good at or it can be an expertise that you don't have that can drive your business that you need that help with. Um, or you can learn, anybody can learn another skill if you want to get good at driving revenue. Uh, I mean that's, that's what I love to teach. So, um, but yeah, hiring um, a right hand person. And then it wasn't just Daryl, trust me, it was a whole host of people that we hired, uh, that, that ended up helping drive the organization and everyone, this is a big difference. Everyone had high expectations. I'm a high expectations guy. So you're going to perform at a high level or you're not probably going to be with us. Um, and so I expected a lot from people. I rewarded them accordingly. And uh, we created this culture of high performance, high reward, um, and winning. People love winning. Not, not at a little bit of a level. We like crushing numbers. And so we got that going and that, that all starts with finding the right people that can compliment you.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think that's such a great point. I talk about, you know, I think the big thing in the industry is, you know, hire these people from outside the industry and, and so on and so forth. But I think better said, it's hiring people outside the industry. It's hiring people with a different perspective or a different skill set. Um, and I think as you grow there's opportunities to find specialists in these roles that we, um, as the leader may not be so good at. Like for me it was, you know, finance, uh, accounting, um, you know, hr, marketing, all of these things that I wasn't good at. And you've got to be willing to make an investment, uh, in these people that are going to help you grow it, um. How have you kind of looked at that from like a talent acquisition, um, perspective of, you know, hiring people who, you know, potentially at the time you couldn't, you know, it was going to be tight to afford them. Like. But I know that in order to help me get to the next level, it was like, I can either wait till I get there and then hire them, or I can hire them maybe a touch early and they can help me get there a heck of a lot faster. How have you kind of balanced the two of. Kind, uh, of when's the right time to hire this talent that's going to help bring me to the next level?

Speaker B: Well, I have a philosophy that anything that can help your business be more successful, especially wildly more successful, you should do, and you shouldn't wait. And the person that gets to pay for it isn't you, it's the customer. And so, um, talent was always easy for me to. If I found talent like a Darrell or other people within Parker and Sons, I knew I wanted them and I was going to pay what I needed to and I was going to pass that cost on to the customer. And so, um, uh, the cost was never going to get in the way of having remarkable people. And so, um, and just like, if a utility company wants to, you know, build a new plant, they're not going to eat the cost. They're going to pass it on to the users of the cost of, of that service. And so, uh, the same is true. A lot of people make decisions on a daily basis of, oh, yeah, I don't want to go to raising goats because it's, it's a little bit expensive. And it was like, like, uh, like, like you, you, you uh, can pass this cost onto the customer, uh, and it won't take very much. No one will even notice it. Um, or you want to do some kind of advertising thing that you don't know it'll work or if it will work or it won't, but if it does, it could be huge. You, you should try it. Pass cost on to the customer. Uh, you want to hire somebody, pass the cost on to the customer. You need new vans or you're being limited on your growth because of the building you're in, you need to get in a bigger building. How do I afford it? Pass it on to the customer. The number one mistake most contractors make is they don't charge enough to be successful, to grow, to have the lifestyle and the success not just for themselves, but for the people that work for them and for you to Create a, um, company where people love working there. One, because it's fun, but two, because they make a ton of money and they make great, you know, and that's part. Should be part of your formula. And the customer gets to pay for all that. Make sure you're charging enough. Um, and so, yeah, I. When I saw Daryl, now, Daryl fell in my lap. I didn't. I wasn't seeking Darrell. I knew. I always wanted Darrell, but I knew, uh, George had him locked up until he didn't. Uh, staying in touch with people that you want is key because you never know what's going on in their life or what may have just happened at their company, or they may be unhappy now because of the PE group that bought them, or there's a lot of unhappy people out there that, uh, if they get with the right company, can be high performers. So, uh, I love identifying those people and then just staying in touch till the time's right for them.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's such great advice is there's talent all over the place. I feel like with our leadership team, a lot of them have a very unique story, uh, of how they were hired by me. Uh, I may have mastered asked it, as in a. Do you know anybody that would be interested in this, knowing full well that, oh, maybe they would be interested in it. So, yeah, there's a couple of. Couple, uh, of, uh, you know, tricks up my sleeve, uh, that I've developed over the years of getting talent to kind of jump on an opportunity. So, um, one of the things I want to ask you, because, actually I got asked this, uh, this morning, um, a company that's growing and, you know, all of a sudden, you know, things that they used to do to build culture aren't working as well or they're not getting as much buy in. What have you noticed after, you know, scaling to your size? Obviously, the, you know, you're not maybe doing the things that you could do when you were 7 million because it's just logistically, it's too hard to pull off. What have you noticed, like, that are kind of constants, or what's your philosophy on kind of building that culture so that, you know, with, I don't know how many employees you have, I can guess it's in the thousands.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, about 1300, I think.

Speaker A: Yeah, 1300 people running around, uh, that you've got a corral and then, you know, make feel as one team.

Speaker B: What.

Speaker A: What are some of the things that, regardless of the size of your company, that you still do Today to build that culture that you, that you would say a lot of people are maybe overlooking.

Speaker B: Yeah. When you're smaller and, um, some of your viewers of this podcast are smaller, you can put your arms around people, you can spend time with them, whatever. As you get larger, um, that doesn't happen as much. I have a great story, true story of. I was standing in a lobby one time and, um, a tech had walked in the door and the receptionist wasn't there. She had walked away. And, and he asked me, hey, can I help you? He thought I was a customer. And, uh, I said, sure, yeah, you can help me. He goes, what can I do for you, sir? And I said, uh, well, you can walk me to my office. Oh, you work here? Ah. And anyway, I said, yeah, I do. Ah, let's walk. Let's get to know each other real quick. Um, when you're larger and people are coming and going, and you have 12 or 1300 or you have a hundred, it's. It's hard to have the same relationship that you had when you were much smaller. And that's the advantage, quite frankly, a smaller company has over a Parker and Sons. And, um, I don't like it. I don't like it at all. There are things that I tried to do while I was there. I met with every new employee, every new employee. I went through the three promised, uh, speech that I learned from, from Alan, uh, from Abacus, um, uh, Alan o', Neill, another goat in our industry. And I got to know them a little bit. And, uh, and some of those years we were hiring hundreds of people and everybody knew that at any time they could stop, even if my door was shut, I was going to put on hold anybody that I was on the phone with or that was in my office to get to know a new person. Um, and so I think there's things like that, uh, that you can do. Communication becomes so important, and some leaders I know, even Parker and Sons, uh, struggles with it now, um, um, because communication is so key, uh, being able to answer emails, uh, uh, and get back to people, uh, and taking the time to be seen and heard, um, if you are the leader or you're the next leader down or the next one after that. So it becomes harder. You'll never replicate being a small contractor and the advantage that you have, but you can certainly do a lot of things day to day, uh, week to week, month to month, that can help you create and keep that culture that you have and everybody knowing what's important to you and what's important to the company, so.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, we talked about this a little bit, but, uh, I'd be remiss. Obviously, your book has a tie in to, uh, the magician theme. Uh, you've talked about this, which, uh, while, uh, knowing that you're a great operator, you're also one of the most interesting people, uh, that I've. That I know, uh, of, uh, being able to, um, uh, have all of these things that, uh, you've studied and dove into. Um, on the magician side, I think we'd be remiss not to bring it up, uh, on the podcast. But, you know, obviously, to master a trick takes reps and takes, um, practice, um, and things of that nature. Um, how do you kind of see kind of that same philosophy in kind of the raising goats? Um, you know, kind of model of practice, repetition, keeping things simple. Like, how do you. How do you kind of see those two things blending together?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think it is. Well, when I learned, um, learning magic was probably more important to me than the actual end result of. Of being able to perform magic. And it was really a, um, matter of, you know, the teacher or the magician that was showing me would show me, uh, one or two tricks, um, and we would practice them together. And then I had to go off and practice on my own, you know, sometimes hundreds of times. Um, and then I had to perform that trick to the magician. And if he felt that I mastered it, then, uh, he would show me another trick. But we weren't moving on until I had mastered what he had shown me. Because what he didn't want to be is somebody like a lot of trainers in our industry who just spew out, you know, do this, do that, do this, do that, and you're really. You're learning a lot. Uh, I could learn a whole bunch of tricks. And what the secret was doesn't mean I could perform them. And in the end, if you want to be a magician, you got to be able to perform, and that takes a lot of practice. And so it was that cadence of show me, me go practice, and then me perform, um, that. And once I was good at performing it, then and only then do we go on to the next trick. And I think training is that way with leaders. And it's certainly part of raising goats is we're going to get good at some things in the class. You're gonna surprise yourself on how good you can get when you do something and only do one thing and you do it repetitiously. And these are, uh, I Don't teach a magic trick. I could, um, but, um, I'm going to teach you, ah, something that'll change your business forever. And it's, it's so good and it works so well, and you're going to learn it in the class. You're going to leave that class, uh, a master at it, and it's going to change your business the minute you get back. And those are the kinds of things that, that I just, I, I get excited just talking about it because I know that I'm, um, making a difference in 32 people's life. Uh, it's coming up in November. We had one class. I'm hearing nothing but just unbelievable things from the first 32 that went through it. I'm not going to do it forever, but a, uh, lot of people say, why Aren't you afraid that maybe Some of the 32 Take your ideas, um, and, and, and, you know, use it and train their own goats? No, I want that to happen. I want, I want, I want everyone. I've learned so much from you and so much from someone. Like, I want it to be shared. I want a whole bunch of good. I want to start a movement, not a class. And I want people to, to, um, look back at the class and say, you know what? That changed my business, that changed my life. Uh, that's, that's rewarding. I know that's why you do what you do. Uh, that's why you do this podcast and the training you do and. No, we all want to help each other. You being part of raising goats just elevates this thing to a whole nother level. And I, I'm, uh, proud of, uh, the people that have decided to be a part of this, and I'm excited to keep sharing and for them to start raising their own goats, uh, once they go through it. I think that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I know we're running up on time here. Got a couple more questions for you. And I think this is more to give more context around the program. I want listeners to leave with, you know, obviously the goal of this was not to be a sales pitch on this, but I would assume after hearing what you've said and knowing who you are, um, people are interested, so give us a little bit of background. So, um, we sign up for this thing. Like, what does this week look like? Uh, you know, who are we talking to? Are. I know some of these trainers, it's like, oh, yeah, do this thing, and then, uh, we never hear from Paul ever again. It's like, well no, no, no. I signed up to hear from him, like, what's he going to do? Um, but uh, like what? Give us a little bit of kind of an overview. Um, obviously you said you just had the one class, but what's that, what's that week entail? Like what can I expect if to sign up?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's uh, it's three full days. Very uh, immersive training. We go through the four pillars. It's broken up into four, uh, uh, pillars. How to be a better thinker, better implementer, better operator and better leader. You're going to learn a lot from myself and the other goats that are putting this on. Um, you're also going to learn from the people in the room. You know, you're going to have 31 other contractors in the room with you. Some of them large, some of them small. The smallest contractor is going to be, you know, a million or 2 million. Most of them are going to be 10 to 20. Uh, some of them are going to be uh, 50, uh, maybe 1 or 2, might be 100 plus. Um, but most of them are going to be, you know, 10 to 20 million kind of contractors. And um, um, each of those pillars is about a half a day of training. Um, and then we do some stuff. There's exercises. You'll break out into small groups. You'll um, learn, you'll start solving problems on your own. In your group, you're going to learn to think and implement at a way higher level and you're going to do that in your small groups. And uh, it's um, and it's fun, you know, um, there's uh, dinners and lunches and we do some stuff and you're, you'll, you'll have fun while you learn. And my goal though is for you to leave the class way better at those four pillars. And then over the next 12 months, uh, which is really all it is, it's a 12 month program. The cost is like 14, uh, thousand something. You get access to myself, you get access to the other goats. We have ongoing monthly training. Uh, we have uh, we have live sessions, um, we basically. And then you, it includes membership, ah, to egia, which is one of the, you know, best, best training arms in our industry, uh, certainly. And a ticket to epic, which is their conference, which is unmatched I think in the industry. And um, you have access to all of their training materials as well. I mean you get all that, um, and all the ongoing training for one year and uh, by the end of that year, you're going to be on your way to being a goat in our industry. And that's my goal, is for you to think differently, implement at a, ah, level you've never implemented before. Um, I'm going to show you some tricks that will just take you to another level. Better operator. And then uh, Mark Madison does the leadership training, most of it, um, we've got some others. But um, you're going to leave a different person. And then you came in, I guarantee it.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that is ah, fantastic. I can't thank you enough for what you're doing for the industry. Um, I think the more, just like you said, the more of us that we can get out there spreading the good word. Um, I always tell people, uh, when we have tours or we do a webinar or do this podcast is uh, there are very few original ideas within this business. Uh, most of the ideas, the way we operate, the way we do things are all original result of, of people like yourself, uh, taking the time to spend with me to tell me something. I remember sitting in your office for the first time, uh, and just uh, asking you questions and I'm just writing, uh, scribbling away and trying to, trying to keep up, uh, with, with those things. Um, what, uh, what would you say to somebody who's, you know, contemplating. I know we talked earlier, hey, you know, you can pass this cost along to the, you know, to the customer, which I think is, is great advice of, uh, hopefully we're going to provide better service as a result of this. What would you say to that guy that's sitting there going, I just don't know if I can stomach that, that, that price. Like, I'm not sure if it's, you know, if I can make that work or, you know, I'm already kind of tight on bills or whatever it may be. What, what would you say to that person? Um, and then I guess after that, where, where can people sign up for this?

Speaker B: Yeah, what I, what I would say to anybody is if you have a chance to learn from you and me and Mark Madison and Drew Cameron and my son Josh and Tommy Melo and Cristiano, you have a chance to meet those people and share and you, uh, can't afford 14,000. And sometimes it's time. It's three days in Scottsdale, Arizona in November. Not a bad place to be by the way. Way, uh, in, uh, in, in, in November. But sometimes people think of money. That's a lot. I don't know if I can do it um, look, I'm going to tell you this. If you don't think you can, don't, don't come. If you don't want to take off three days, don't come. You're not going to be a goat anyway. Um, and so, but if you're, if, if you're like me and like a lot of other contractors, uh, Certainly the first 32 that came and once the 32 is filled up, we're not adding any more. And I, uh, may not, I may not do this forever. Uh, there might be one more after this. But, uh, but I would say you can always find a way to pay for it. If you raised your repair pricing just five bucks you just paid for it or whatever, it's it. You, you do your own math. Um, the time, you know, three days to walk away a better person, you know, it's going, it's going to be worth it. But I don't like talking people into, do something that they're trying to talk themselves out of doing. Um, I want you to do it and I want everyone there to not be there reluctantly. I want them to be there because they want to learn from people like you and me in a different way. This isn't like anything you've been through. I'll, ah, I'll say that, that a hundred times there. It's just not like anything you've been through. You're going to learn some new stuff and you're going to, uh, learn it in a way different way and it's going to stick. Um, but hey, if, if that's not who you want, then, then that's. You shouldn't come. You know, I'm not, I'm only filling 32 spots. I'm not trying to fill a room full of a thousand contractors. I want people there who want to change their life and their family's life and the people that work for them, their life. So, uh, come if you're that person. Uh, don't come if you're not awesome.

Speaker A: And uh, Paul, where do people, if, uh, if they do want to sign up? Where, where's the best place to go to get more information and to, uh, sign up?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's just, uh, raising goats. All one word dot com. Go there. It's November 9th through the 12th. There's um, um, a tour of Parker and Sons, uh, included. There's um, you know, um, um, will be a week you'll never forget in Scottsdale, Arizona, November 9th through the 12th. But yeah, just go to raising goat goats.com and uh, and sign up. You have to pay a thousand dollar deposit. The rest is due, uh, later. And uh, and find a way to pay for it. And find a way to take off those three or three and a half days, uh, probably four with travel let's say, um, but it'll be worth your time and uh, everyone at your work, everyone at your company will thank you.

Speaker A: I love it. Well Paul, I can't thank you enough for sharing some time with us. Anytime I get to talk to you, it's a pleasure. Um, got a few notes written down here of things that we can go back and uh, you know, revisit and make simpler I think is the kind uh, of the, the overarching theme of the podcast, um, the Hope with Raising Goats is to hopefully simplify your operation, uh, begin to focus on uh, the um, the right things that are actually going to move it forward. Um, and uh, again I think uh, I'll speak for all of the industry, even if they don't want me to. Uh, thank you, uh, thank you for uh, continuing to spread the word and teach. Um, I think it's only going to benefit our industry as a whole, um, as we continue to move forward. So thanks again and appreciate you spending some time with us.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, thank you. Thanks for uh, me being on this podcast and thanks for all you do in the industry. You're uh, you're one of the people that's changed a lot of people's lives and uh, I, I hope to do the same.

Speaker A: Appreciate it. Thanks, Paul.

Speaker B: All right, see you.