DIRTY WATER TASTES GREAT! - #107 | Dominic Minogue

Speaker A: This was the first one that was more than just like something to make money or even like just a passion product. I was like, this is something I really want in the market for myself. To build an alcohol brand, you just need saturation, visibility and tons of touch points where people see it and resonate.

Speaker B: What's step one when it comes to building a community?

Speaker A: I think step one with building a community is definitely just so this is my first venture in alcohol or even CPG in general. So it was a huge learning curve. And the first thing was if I had to start Dirty Water over again, the one thing that would do differently is.

Speaker B: What's up, Dom M? Welcome to the podcast, man.

Speaker A: Thanks, man. Thanks for having me, Daniel.

Speaker B: Of course. You know, before we get started, I have to say, uh, you were fortunate enough to send me some, uh, dirty water and I was fortunate enough to have some. It was really good, really refreshing. And I'm sure we'll get into this a little bit later. But just to start out, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs have this moment where they kind of just say, fuck it, I'm all in. Did you ever have something like that happen to you with Dirty Water?

Speaker A: Yep. So kind of to talk a little bit about, not the whole backstory, but like, kind of like how I started. I think it was like 2018. I was in SF, uh, at the time I was working at like my tech job and my main day to day was, you know, going, going to work, coming home and cracking open a Bud Light. And that was sort of like, you know, my way to unwind throughout the day. At this time I was sort of drinking baka sodas at bars and so I really wanted something that had the dopamine effect of cracking open a cold one. Right. But in like, um, maybe a, a more um, healthy form, like a vodka soda. Right. I was like, oh, I love to have a, like a large, like 30 pack or 18 or whatever it is of like a vodka soda that's like cheap, accessible, and again like just crushable is sort of the, uh, idea. Um, and then I was looking at the time, there are a couple of players in the space that were doing canned vodka sodas, but they were a little bit more upstream, a little bit like fancier. And I was like, I would really still love like a cheaper alternative. That's why I discovered hard seltzers and kind of fell in love with the hard seltzer space at that time. I was drinking a ton of hard seltzers for about like four years, but then nothing. Still Hit the mark of like this cheap, accessible, single flavored beverage. And at that time I was like, you know what, I'll just do it myself. The market's matured, there's uh, been a lot of players coming in and out of the space. So I'll just, I'll do it myself because, you know, and I think this is the best way, at least for me, because I've done a lot of startup related things. This was the first one that was more than just like something to make money or even like just a passion project, right. I was like, this is something I really want in the market for myself. So, so let me just get it out.

Speaker B: Do you know the Instagram account hubs life by any chance?

Speaker A: I do not.

Speaker B: So there's, it's just basically this one guy who's been going crazy viral. He basically videotapes his like simple life, simple corporate job, all that kind of stuff. And it seems like every day he like opens a beer, crack, opens a cold one. So when you were telling me like that was just the effect he wanted every day, that just like instantly, uh, flashed in my head. So I thought that was funny. But before Dirty Water, I know you had like a lot of community building experience at a few different companies, you know, and community building seems to be something that everyone's trying to do these days in terms of building an audience and having people that can hear your message but from your perspective and someone that's helped a lot of companies do it. What's step one when it comes to building a community?

Speaker A: I think step one with building a community is definitely just knowing what your message is for the community and which community you want to target. Right? Because I think there's a ton of different communities and you know, people interchange community and demographics sort of like simultaneously. But I think like it goes a little bit more deeper than that because community has its own sort of living, breathing thing. And the last thing you want to do is interject on the community, not bring values that add to the community. Right? And then you're just kind of there as like a, oh, I'm just here to shill out my product. Right. So really kind of choosing which communities you go after immediately, whether they're large or small, and really saying like, hey, I do fit in with your ethos. And so like, I think it's more than just kind of doing a little like R and D online, but actually like going there, being a fly on the wall, understanding what the community is about, kind of like how they function, you know, and then really going from there. So I think, at least for me, that's my biggest thing with choosing the community that I start with. And the communities that I've been starting with are ones that I'm actually integrated with in my day to day. So it makes things like a lot easier. And then the web kind of like goes out from there. Of these 10 general communities that are

Speaker B: associated, like word of mouth, it's like a fun club. Like, some people have fun, they tell their friends, and then vice versa. But on that note, when you think about building a community, you know, what's the big difference you think companies can do between looking at buyers just as like consumers versus community members?

Speaker A: Right. I think, I think when thinking about just the communities in general. Right. Um, because when you think about buyers. Right. And I'll use my experience with performance marketing as this. Right. With performance marketing, you're going at each individual one by one, and you're playing to their exact needs and wants at a certain time. Right. With a community, you not only have to get each individual person's buy in, but them collectively saying yes or no to a product. And so that kind of means that you have to appease everyone together as a collective voice. Right. I think that is where it becomes a little trickier. And that's why, you know, again, being that fly on the wall, understanding their nuances and not just kind of like shoehorning yourself into any sort of community is like your best approach.

Speaker B: I think it's a little bit of art and science because everyone's inherently different. And then you have to find your niche, but then within that niche, get everyone to agree. So definitely, definitely not something that's easy to do.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, uh, everyone's different, Right. I think that's the biggest thing, right? Where it's like, you know, with performance marketing, you know, there, there is a formula, there is demographics, there is like, you know, all this data, but a community is a community for a certain reason, for sure.

Speaker B: So getting back to dirty water for a second, I'm just curious because this is like a bit of a play on the branding, but do most people think about dirty water as a light beer or hard seltzer?

Speaker A: So it's funny, some people, when they just hear dirty water by itself, they think of either a non alk water, which has played both positively and negatively depending on who you're talking to, um, or a hard seltzer. I think there's been very few times where they identify it as a light beer first. But I would love to be sort of categorized against light beers, not just like within the confines of, uh, the hard seltzer shell.

Speaker B: Got it. So initially you want to be within the, uh, sort of the hard seltzer shell, but also appeal to the light beer demographic in terms of something that can kind of play both sides.

Speaker A: Right? Exactly, yeah. Because I think when creating dirty water, my idea was, you know, my favorite types of drinks are your light beers, your, like, I would say, like your watery swell, like pbr, uh, Highlife, Bud Light, Modelo. Um, you know, the list goes on. But they all kind of share a very similar thing in common, which is they're good for any occasion, they're simple, they're classic, and they're very sessionable. Uh, when you think about hard seltzers, traditionally, I think first and foremost it's a healthier alternative to beer. Right? Lesser calories, more alcohol content. But at the same time, currently with hard seltzers, everyone's going to variety pack, you know, upstream flavors. They want to be fancy, they want to have, you know, almost like a cocktail, cocktail esque experience where you're drinking it and you really know, oh, uh, this tastes like a watermelon mojito or this tastes like xyz. Right. And so for me, I want to use the vessel of, um, a hard seltzer as a healthier alternative, but still get that feeling of a light beer. And so I think with that, you know, there aren't many in this space. So I'm trying to, even though it is born a hard seltzer, I want it to appeal to people the same way that your classic light beers did.

Speaker B: Uh, you know, it's funny, you know, there's a lot of mixed, uh, drinks or hard seltzers that I drink also. And a lot of the times is they'll have like these crazy value packs and there'll be like four or five different flavors, but I only really want two of them. And I definitely want to get something that I can just get every time. So I think it's cool that, you know, you have this singular play on your branding and people can expect to get the same thing every time. And it's almost like a light beer that has like that citrusy taste. And I think people will, will really appreciate that. But another note, you know, when I was, uh, stalking the shit out of you for coming up with good questions for this episode, I saw on another podcast how you made the first prototype of dirty water. And I love how back in college you said it was a way to get drunk at an effective price point, which is a really great explanation. But you ended up, as I said earlier, adding that citrusy flavor. How did that happen?

Speaker A: Right. So when coming up with the flavoring of dirty water, I think so dirty water itself, uh, there are. There is flavor there. Right. Even though I like to have, like, not talk about it as a flavor, I want people to know it as it tastes like dirty water. Right. But there is a flavor, and the flavor is a little bit of pear and a little bit of citrus. And when thinking about the flavors for dirty water, right. And you know, what it would taste like, I knew it had to have some sort of fruit element to it, but I wasn't exactly sure what it was. Right. And then so going down the list ended up on pear. Pear first. So pear was like, for me, when thinking about pear, it's like, not too sweet. You think of it not as like a candy sweet fruit, almost like just sort of hydrating, refreshing bit. So that was always going to be the base note. And then from there it was just adding in, you know, a complimentary flavor to not just have it taste like. And so citrus. And effectively lemon was the counterpart to that. Tried a couple other things, but lemon, uh, was the one. You keep it simple, and so, you know, a little bit of, uh, acidity at the end kind of like balances it out from just your base sweetness,

Speaker B: you know, I'm just curious. How long did it take you from conception, like, you had this idea to, like, ultimately come out with the final product. And I don't mean, like, all the marketing stuff. What I'm basically asking is, like, how long did it take to come up with, like, the recipe for it? Because I'm. I'm sure there's probably been, like, a bunch of, you know, testing, and, like, it could use a little more citrus, a little more of this flavor, that flavor. Like, what was that whole formulation process like?

Speaker A: Yeah, so for me, actually, um, so this is my first venture in, uh, alcohol or even CPG in general. Right. So it was a huge learning curve. And so the first thing was, well, yeah, how do I do formulation? Right. You hear about people doing formulations in their kitchen, things like that. But at the end of the day, it needs to be shelf stable, needs to be FDA approved, all these other things. And I knew I just didn't trust myself doing any of that. So I wanted to make sure, you know, from a good starting point that it was not only tasty, but it was also, like, you know, regulated and good for mass production. And so the way. The way it worked was it took me about, I would say, three or four months to find a flavor partner. So they're called Flavor Houses. A, uh, flavor house is basically a, um, company that you send your brief to and you want to be as specific as possible, talking about, you know, what the flavor experience is, what the notes you kind of want are. And usually with bigger companies, what they would do is they would work with, like, multiple flavor houses. They'd have one brief, they shoot it out, and then whichever one comes back with, like, their closest iteration to what they're thinking of, then they go in that direction. Right.

Speaker B: Me being a consulting project, almost.

Speaker A: Right, exactly. But me being a startup, I could only choose one. Don't have the money to shop around five or six different flavor houses, so worked with one. And so that vetting process itself took about, yeah, like two or three months. And then once I chose one, it was about maybe 10 or 11 months of formulation back and forth to get to the point that we are today. And that was interesting. It's, yeah, a lot of samples back and forth. A lot of. A lot of points where at certain times I was like, this is never going to taste good. This is not going to work ever. And I would say it finally took a turn for the better when I actually started getting other people to taste it outside of me and my wife, because I guess, like, it's one of those things when you're so in the weeds, everything tastes bad, right? Just because you have your anchoring points of, like, what previous samples were, and then everything kind of tastes off from there. But I think it was about seven or eighth round of samples of like two or three samples each time that, uh, I had some other people come over taste it, and they were like, oh, this is, like, really good. And that sort of changed my. I just had to take a step back, right. And then kind of reassess what I was doing and, you know, saying, no, I. I can see where they're coming from in terms of this flavor direction and then kind of pivoted a little bit from there. So. But yeah, all. All in all took about, I would say, 11 months of formulation.

Speaker B: You know, it reminds me of campus food. Whenever you're on campus, all the food kind of have, like, all these different stations of, like, pasta or, you know, eggs or sandwiches or whatever. And, like, it all somehow tastes the same. So that. That just from my, uh, from my days at school, but that sounded the same, but, you know, I'm interested. Like, 11 months sounds like, it's like a really long time. And obviously, you know, you want to be confident when you're putting something out to market. But during those 11 months, did you ever have the thought of, like, oh, this is just never going to work out. I'm never going to follow through with this. And if you did, how did you decide to like, push past that thought and keep going towards, like, product you really wanted to work on?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny, I think, uh, every step of the way I had that kind of like sinking feeling in my stomach. It's like, oh, the next steps come, right? And so for me, like the formulation process I originally thought was only gonna take a month. I had that stretched out, but, you

Speaker B: know, would've been nice.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, no, that would've been nice, actually. Would've been. In hindsight, I was not prepared for the next step within that first. But yeah, the formulation process, throughout it, you know, it not tasting good at a certain point, that's when I was like, you know, this is never gonna work out. Um, but eventually, you know, when the flavor started really kind of getting to where I wanted it to be, even then I was like, shit, like, we're getting really close to like finding my flavor now. I have to actually like, put up a ton of money and like get it produced, right? And so that was like a very like, nerve wracking moment. But yeah, as soon as I, I got that formulation down, I was like, okay, well I guess I have to do the next step now, which is not um, necessarily go to my full production, but because the way that alcohol is, you have to do a, uh, you don't have to, but it's advised to do what's called a pilot run, which is, um, not for sale, smaller production of cans, uh, just to like shop it around to maybe friends, family, potential investors, and also just like potential customers. And so I got a thousand cans made. And so this was even sort of, uh, my way of bracing myself for that eventual production run of, um, seeing if it's actually real, right? So like getting the product made and then getting it out there, having people taste it. And the reception was actually like very, very good. Way better than I thought. And so that kind of gave me like a lot of assurance to go forward and put up even more capital to uh, eventually get a full production run made. And that happened, uh, this past April was when I got that production made.

Speaker B: I'm just curious, before you ordered those a thousand cans and like you finally, after those 11 months, got that flavor, like How'd you know that was the one? Like, was it close enough to what you imagined or was there like a light bulb moment? You're like, oh, this is how, like my hard seltzer is supposed to taste every day.

Speaker A: So it's funny, right? When thinking about doing a hard seltzer that's single flavor, right? It sounds crazy because it's like, oh, that's what you're going to ride on. Like, that's like your do or die. Like, that's the hill you're going to die on, right? And so for me, it's like, I think this tastes good. Um, and so a thousand can production is like, it's a lot. But it was, I think, small enough for me to test it, right? I was like, let me. It's like, I think this tastes really good. I think this is close enough where the flavor's like a bit nebulous. I think it's either net neutral or net positive, right? Because eventually I want it to be at a price point where if you're at a bar, you're like, oh, that tastes good enough to get for 3, 4. And so I was like, I think this is what I want. Let me see if it, you know, tastes good at mass production. So got a thousand cans made, all, um, um. And then, yeah, it, it was just at that point because, you know, before this, I wanted to make sure that everyone liked it more than just me. Because even though I think I have a certain taste that is close to what I think a lot of people, like, you never know, right? And so really getting it out there and really just like, kind of blindly, like, having faith is, uh, is what it came down to. And so, uh, yeah, thankfully people liked it.

Speaker B: That's a, that's a common theme in entrepreneurship. I know one of the things you said earlier, that this was your first soiree into the CPG space. And I think, you know, the CPG space is obviously very competitive and there are a lot of players in it, and people might come in with a lot of assumptions. Like when you were first going into it, did you have any assumptions that have since proven false about the CPG space?

Speaker A: Yeah, I thought it was going to be easier than it is. I didn't realize how, especially with alcohol specifically, like, so alcohol is like highly regulated, right, in the CPG space. Um, and I didn't realize how because of that. It's funny, actually. Think about like, non alk cpg. People can make it, people can get, get it mass produced and kind of shop it around, get it at a deli nearby at a grocery store. But in alcohol you have this thing called the three tiered system which basically you need three different points of distribution before your end consumer. And so with that there's a huge barrier to entry. But once you clear that barrier of entry, you're like amongst a much smaller pool of competitors. Right. But that smaller pool of competitors are legacy competitors for the most part, have basically all the money in the world to that like you're competing against. And so it's a huge uphill battle that I found. But that doesn't mean it's impossible. Right. I think. And that's why my sort of marketing approach, when thinking about your two main channels, which is on premise sales, which is bars, restaurants versus off premise sales, which are big bucks, grocery stores, bodegas, places where you can buy it for home consumption, my main focus is the on premise because that is mainly based on relationship building versus just buying your way into a space. And so that's sort of kind of how I've been focusing on it with like a lot of founder led sales, which has actually been working really well in my case. And so, you know, being able to do that. Yeah, I think, uh, I didn't realize how grindy it would really be. Um, like real boots on the ground, you know, getting out there every day, walking around, walking up and down Manhattan, um, you know, shopping around. But it's been fun though.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure it's been tough for sure. And you know, it must be nice to have unlimited balance sheets, some of those bigger players. But I think maybe one of the benefits of being smaller is that you can have a bit more of a pop culture aspect and that when you do have that pop culture aspect, you know, people can rally around it. But that's just my food for thought. But you mentioned before that the alcohol CPG space, specifically like you know, the hard seltzer space when you're creating an alcohol brand, that there are like those three points of entry. I'm just curious, what are those like three points of entry or distribution you mentioned earlier?

Speaker A: So if you're just. And I'm probably going to butcher this. Uh, so that's fine. I mean, let me, let me make sure my alcotornian doesn't yell at me after this.

Speaker B: But um, sure, everyone, everyone listen. Listen with intent, but do your own research. We'll just put it that way.

Speaker A: Uh, so basically you need three points of, between you and the consumer, three different points. And usually those three points are A manufacturer or a co packer, then your distributor and then your um, your retailer. Right. And the retailer is either a store or a bar. Right. And then after that the consumer can touch it. And so the hardest part of that, well, they're all hard in their own right, but the distributors, the distributors are the hardest part for sure because those are the ones that are, can choose to either bring you on and sell you to all the retailers or they could choose to not bring you on at all. And then you have to find what they call these back of house distributors where you do all the selling and they're just doing the logistics and invoicing. And you're basically paying someone, um, to use their license to, to be able to effectively distribute in what, whatever state you are. Yeah, each point's different, each point's tough. But they're all necessary to, to sell alcohol.

Speaker B: So the distributors know they're kind of hot shit and that they have to say at the end of the day between whether they take someone on or not.

Speaker A: Yep, exactly. And so like a lot of the times, like they take it like upwards of a 30, 35 point margin. Um, and at the end of the day they're just, they're just delivering product and you still have to sell them on.

Speaker B: Yep. It's a crazy world we live in. Well, you know, I'm no government expert, but I can understand the perspective that, you know, they want an alcoholic product to be regulated. But I also understand from your perspective how, you know, you'd rather have a, uh, streamlined supply chain. So, you know, because I don't know anything about either, I'll just kind of let the situation, uh, stay as is. But you know, thinking back to like after your first thousand cans and when you had some of that positive feedback and at that point you were like, okay, I'm going to kind of go all in on this, put in more capital from that point on. Do you have any crazy stories about like the early days of scaling dirty water?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, I'm still relatively new just in the grand scheme of things. Right. But I think, you know, very early on, I want to use the word founder mode very lightly because I don't agree with it, but it is sort of a true thing where it's like. And when I think about marketing and social and everything like that, I think I am in that founder mode time of, um, just literally trying everything. And I think even now, right, I'm doing all these events, all these community events, like three, four plus a week, just getting Cans in hands and you know, whether it's driving, you know, 10, 20 cases of product like around the city, door to door, uh, popping up for events at any time of the day or night. I think it's all just, it's all really blurred together. But it's been a real fun experience so far of just like connecting with people, getting people to try it for the first time, seeing like, you know, they're very surprised look, uh, on their faces when they're trying it. Yeah, I think the whole thing of, I mean, every single time I have to do an event, right, I have to either buy the product at a retailer because of that, you know, three tiered system. I can't have any product on hand myself unless it's bought from like a retailer. And you know, it, like every single thing is a logistic nightmare. But, you know, we get it done and uh, yeah, we, we make it at the end of the day.

Speaker B: Yep. It's crazy. A lot of people go to those events and like, they see this booth and they just think like, you probably want to go get some from, uh, you know, the store or something like that. But in reality there's a whole mess of a supply chain. So always more than, uh, fits the picture for sure. You know, I'm just curious, like, how did you come up with the branding for it? Like, when I look at the can, I get like a really medieval times vibe. Was that something you were going for or like, how did you think about creating the brand for it?

Speaker A: So the aesthetics based off of two very specific points. One being your old, I would say like your old Belgian beers think of like Chimay Duvel and then the other is like your classic Americana. So like, think of like Coors Bangwe or High Life, right? These kind of like beige ish hands that feel old school, feel vintage. And so it was kind of a push and pull on both ends of it. Some early iterations of Dirty Water, it, the logo was actually even more medieval than it is now. Like kind of like old gothic medieval and that plus almost, um, what is now sort of a mirror behind the Dirty Water logo was more of a kind of like a family crest, uh, sort of like a, but a much more pared back. So if you think, if you look at a lot of the Belgian beers, there is sort of like a crest with like, you know, some sort of like embellishment inside. Mine was a very, very stripped back crest. Almost as if it looked like a window. And the way that I projected it was a window to, to the world and a window where you could kind of add anything you want and any flavor you want. Dirty Water, whether you want to use as a mixer, whether you want to add different flavors to it, um, and kind of like almost like an empty, uh, you know, an empty slate. So, yeah, again, using those notes of the Belgian beers and then kind of bringing in some more modern aspects of, um, pure Americana. Um, again, whether it's the, uh, Coors banquet, the high life, and then sort of kind of creating, you know, a nice mix between both.

Speaker B: I want you to hold that thought on the other flavors later. I have a. I have a good question at the end about that, but, you know, we were talking off air a bit about how you live in New York. And, you know, New York is the most competitive city in the world, and I'm sure that there are a lot of hard seltzer brands competing for shelf space. And we were talking earlier about some of the legacy players. But personally, how are you able to build, like, relationships with liquor stores, bars, venues and clubs to get them to carry Dirty Water?

Speaker A: So before I answer this, I will preface, and you may ask this question later, but if I had to start Dirty Water over again, the one thing that I would do differently is not start in the New York City market. And that is because, as you said, it's insanely competitive. And really, to build an alcohol brand, you just need saturation visibility and, you know, just like tons of touch points where people see it and resonate with it. Right now, thinking about, like a hometown, right? Your hometown, there's probably a strip of bars. You could probably envision it in your head. There's like maybe 10, 12 bars everybody goes to. And you could. There's varying ages between, like, blue collar that go after work to, like, your young kids in, like, the early 20s, uh, maybe like some college kids. And then, like, it kind of varies between, right? And there's always like that one kind of clubby place, so one sort of Irish bar, maybe a couple. And so think about all those bars and how much easier it is it would be to get everyone in the town to drink it if you could just focus on 12 bars at once. Now think about your hometown being New York City, right? There is 15 bars on every corner, right? And so how do you create visibility, especially when certain bars are locked into relationships with other brands, things like that? It makes the point of saturation and visibility much harder. But you, you take what you can get, right? And so to answer your question, the relationship building is a lot of warm Intros. A lot of just bec. Becoming a neighborhood friend. And so this is why, you know, when you talk to any sort of beer rep or alcohol rep, they are out and about every night, Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday until like 10, 11pm Just visiting all their bars to have the bartenders, have the people remember their faces, right? And it's, you're effectively getting paid to drink, but paid. Like it's very tactical where like you become friends with them and you like sort of like put your stamp on the location, right? And so it is, it's a lot of that. It's a lot of just choosing which places you want to be in making relationships, seeing if they jive with you, if they like the vision, if they like the product and then just tons and tons of follow up. So you know, I think there's been locations where it's been like a 1, 2, 3 getting in there. Other places where I have to show up five, 10 times. And a lot of times like, you know, maybe after like your fourth or fifth time you're going to say, okay, you know, I'll try it again in a couple months. Other times you're like, you know what? This is a place I really want to get into. Let me just keep trying over and over again, let them know that I'm uh, legitimate, that I really care about the place and uh, then see if they take you.

Speaker B: So from your perspective when you're going out and like meeting these places and choosing different venues or bars to go to, do you kind of. In New York, as you mentioned, there's a lot of different places to go to and again so saturated with competition and hard seltzers and nightlife. But are you like really targeted in the places you try to go to? Like do you really try to m understand the vibe of the place then think to yourself if like Dirty Water is a good, kind of a good fit for this place, is that how you kind of do targeting when it comes to meeting these people and creating these partnerships?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Because I think the worst thing that could happen is get into a place it doesn't sell, right? And then it's just no one's happy, right? The bar is not happy that they have the product and you're not happy that it's not selling. Because reorders are the most important thing when it comes to just visibility and seeing if something works right? So just getting that shelf space is just not going to cut it. So, um, yes, definitely very targeted when it comes to the locations that I want um, and so I break it out into sort of three types of places, but on top of that are like three specific demographics. So the first demographic is your typical, I would say postgrad. So. Right. So like college kid, postgrad, maybe we're talking about New York City, like the Murray Hill, West Village sort of kid. The ones that are going to like the places that are maybe more on the sports bar side, you know, and that, that's where they know and that's where they go. Right. Uh, so sports bars are huge ones. Um, sometimes they're Irish bars. A lot of times they're just like classic sports bars. Then you have your, I will say, like downtown creative crowd. Now these are the people that may be into the arts, fashion, music, xyz. They're maybe like, you know, a little more on the hip side and they go to places that are sort of scenic. Right. And so those sorts of places, whether they're restaurants or bars, to have usually more concise menus.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But that's where your product can really stand out as well. Maybe it's like a cocktail bar that has one beer and maybe one hard seltzer. That one hard sell to the dirty one. Right. So that's the second spot. And those people are usually tastemakers. Uh, and then the third demographic I would say is um, is the industry slash service people. Right. So the bartenders themselves, and I think those have become my biggest advocates and they uh, tend to go to each other's bars. But at the end of the night, you know, after a long shift, the places that open till 4am Are dive bars. Right. Because they're one very cost effective two, they're just like everywhere. And so those are, I would say one of the best channels for me are the dive bars that sell again, also a concise menu. But, um, they sell well drinks, they sell your beer shot combos. And they may sell like a few hard seltzers, if not one. And that one being dirty water is uh, is such a huge thing.

Speaker B: So. Sure. Uh, when you're kind of going to reach out to these people, a lot of the times is it like someone connecting you or do you just kind of go out to these bars and try talking up the bartender? Like I'm always curious what's the way in? Because I feel like a lot of people try to go through the front door, but then people always talk about the side door. So from someone that's doing it, you know, how do you go about making these relationships?

Speaker A: Definitely both. And I think it's important to know both. When starting a company like this, I think if you just rely on warm connections, you're just not going to know, you know, especially when you hire on salespeople, you're not going to know like what sort of things to brace them for and how to sympathize with them. Right. And so I think as a founder, um, you know, just being aware of like each part of the process, I don't think I'm that good at selling or ever was. I don't think I was like, I don't think I have that salesperson gene in me. But you have to do it, you have to go out. Right. And I think, I think, um, going out and doing those cold opens with uh, a bar going in there. Hey, my name's Dom, I'm um, founder of Dirty Water. I'd love to chat with you would love to chat with a bar manager, the beverage director, the owner, whoever it is, you know, I can come back on a better day. Usually you kind of go in when the bar just opens so it's not too busy, m and just, yeah, reach out to them. But obviously a warm intro is always better because you know, they're braced for the conversation rather than, you know, catching them when they're doing something else. And they, the last thing I want to do is talk to a rep trying to show their product. But um, it's a necessary evil. I've gotten a ton of accounts, um, doing the cold open. So uh, it works, it works well. But you know, I, I always prefer a warm intro to break that awkward tension kind of going in.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I'm sure both of them come into play when you're, when you're trying to do your thing. So you also started Dirty Water as a solo venture and I'm just curious what's been the toughest part about like being a solo founder? Like did you think about bringing on a co founder in the beginning or did you want to know you wanted to spearhead this thing? Like what was the logic behind going in solo?

Speaker A: So I have co founded a couple of these before and I've done a lot of work with like, you know, early stage startups and I think the way that I like working is just kind of knowing sort of like how everything functions. When I was at my past tech, uh, company I was like the 10th or 11th employee and really got to be like in the weeds, get my hands in like all the different verticals. Being a founder, especially on a product that you really, really are passionate about, if it's your idea, Chances are that someone else may not have that exact amount of buy in. I mean, there's tons of ways to create, tons of ways to create buy in, but no one's going to have the same buy in or vision that you have just like, instinctively.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And I think for me, the biggest thing was not, Was not being, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Complacent with certain aspects of the business. Right. You don't want, when it's so early, you don't want to hand off something and say, oh, I don't need to know this because someone else takes care of it. When you want to move as fast as, say, I want to move. Right. You don't want to have to rely on somebody else or even put blame on somebody else. Right. And so I think for me, being a, uh, solo founder, yes, very difficult. But I think it was necessary for me to be able to learn about every aspect of the business and be able to hold myself accountable in, you know, whatever I'm doing. So there is no moment of I could wait and do nothing because someone else is taking care of it. So it's always just me moving forward.

Speaker B: So it's like an accountability thing. Like, you knew if you went in yourself, obviously it's probably the most difficult path out there, but at least you knew, like, if you knew you had no one else to blame by yourself, you're more likely to act instead of potential issues with a co founder.

Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. And I would say myself just like, again, kind of going back to how I function in my past, I'm definitely more operationally focused. Right. I think, um, you know, I'm in that almost like that COO mentality of like, your main job is to fire yourself. And the best way to do that is hire on people that you know can fill your role. Right. So going 0 to 1 in every single vertical, I think is like a really fun thing. But needing to know how to go from zero to one and get that really good hire is really important.

Speaker B: But it's one of the most underrated facts, I think too. I was at a talk recently and you know, this, uh, CEO, and he said that a CEO founder, I might add. So not. It's not like, uh, a typical corporate CEO where they just like pluck someone from like, another executive job, but someone that, you know, started from zero. He said one of the toughest parts was hiring other people. And I think that in the beginning, a lesson that a lot of CEOs or founders have to learn is that it's impossible to replicate yourself. Just so no one's been in the weeds as much as you. So at some point, you know, you have to realize that it's going to take time for people to get up to speed. But I do think it's a nice middle ground of like being the founder but also being able to hire for your weaknesses. Understanding that takes time and uh, figuring out a way to make that work. So I think it's a really cool note on there. Just thinking a bit higher level here. I know you said earlier you had some early entrepreneurial ventures and you had some co founders and you also ended up working for a few companies as you mentioned. So from someone that has both like that company experience and that early entrepreneurial experience, did you just feel like entrepreneurship was more aligned with who you were?

Speaker A: I will say yes and no. For some reason, I don't know, I don't like the word entrepreneur, especially when I think about myself. I like, I like doing things, I like doing a lot of things. I like putting my hands in things. And that usually comes with again, being very early stage with some companies. Um, I don't like being siloed into one thing. I think that gets pretty stale for me. You know, I like being the jack of all trades, master of none sort of person. Whether that's a detriment or not, that's just kind of like who I am. But, um, yeah, I mean, like, you know, if someone paid me a salary and like small equity in the company to build this company, right. I would not like be opposed to that. Right. Just because I like building, I like this product. So I don't think entrepreneurship is exactly what I love. I love the process of building, the process of having ownership I think is huge. Right. That's why I like any company with, with stock, um, is always great, uh, especially early on to get more of it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: The more buyer, the more buy in you have, the more ownership you have is always better. But yeah, I think the issues with entrepreneurship come on the, you know, the admin side. Right. A lot of the things that you don't like doing, like um, the legal stuff and like the payroll and like all these other things. Like um, I'm not gonna say entrepreneurship's overrated, but it's definitely tougher than, you know, someone just going, it's like, oh, I'm gonna sell my own business because I want financial freedom. I mean, financial freedom's working at Google a year and you know, getting a nice little stock bonus. And getting four weeks of vacation. Right. So I think there's different, uh, definitions of financial freedom. But yeah, there is obviously freedom when it comes to being an entrepreneur, definitely.

Speaker B: So you like more the creative and artistic aspect of entrepreneurship, less like the mundane aspects? We'll say.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, yes, I would say, yeah. I love the building aspect. I love working in different verticals, working with different people. Being the dumbest person in the room, I think is the best way to put it. You know, like learning from a lot of people. And that happens on the ground floor, for sure.

Speaker B: I share the same sentiment. Whenever I go in a room, I'm like, I know nothing. I'm just here to learn from others. So definitely always that, uh, day one mindset. I also saw that you have a TikTok, which this is also really impressive with just about 200,000 followers where like you talk about food, you make food anywhere from like these five minute recipes to these gourmet meals. I'm just curious, were you always kind of a foodie?

Speaker A: Always a foodie in the sense where I love eating. Uh, I was never pretentious about food. I like everything from, yeah, I'm sure your Michelin restaurants to McDonald's. I had McDonald's for lunch today. They came out with a new chicken, Big Mac. Pretty good. So, yeah, I love all kinds of food. I love street food. I love going to different countries and eating there, local cuisines. But the TikTok itself, it's, it's funny. I always wanted to start a TikTok, but I personally am not the content person. Like, I don't love making content. Right. So for me, if I wanted to make a TikTok, it needed to be something that felt natural and not something that I needed to really script out or like, you know, put a lot of time into sort of building. And so the format that worked the best was, uh, this sort of like pov. Let me just cook what I'm cooking and or review what I'm eating, sort of like format. And that's, that's worked really, really well, uh, because it allowed me to do a lot with like a little lift. It's funny, I started the TikTok because so this was after I already incorporated Dirty Water and started working on Dirty Water. And I thought, hey, you know what? This is the perfect time. Let me make a TikTok. If it happens to blow up, then I could use it as a traction channel. And it happened to get a decent amount of followers. And that actually led me into rooms of other creators and Other people. And, you know, I would say, uh, yeah, it was me putting myself out there kind of for the first time, and it's been pretty fun.

Speaker B: Yep. I'm sure also, like, the authenticity has helped you grow as well, because I think a lot of times now, especially people can tell when stuff is like a little too scripted. So I definitely think the authenticity factor has been a contributor. And selfishly, I saw you had this one recipe with like this, you know, chili egg. I don't know, I forget what it was called, but I've been making that recently. It's been really good. So I, you know, I appreciate that inspiration, but like, I'm just curious. Out of all the, out of all the things that you make, like, do you have a favorite food that you cook or like, favorite thing that you make?

Speaker A: I could tell you what my, my wife likes me making and that's, uh, like pasta. Yeah. So I, um, I love, I love cooking Italian food. I mean, Italian and Asian I think are like the big two that I cook. Um, but I love cooking Italian food. I love pastas. I love like the hardiness of it. And then, yeah, I think like a lot of like, Asian comfort food, whether it's like rice dishes, noodle dishes, uh, I like to call it like elevated slop is the way that I would define my, um, like the way I cook. It's like I cook the way that I think chefs and cooks cook for themselves at home. Right. It's not going to be like the prettiest stuff, but it's really, really tasty, it's hearty, it hits all the food categories and it's like, it doesn't take like a billion dishes to make, I mean, uh, you know, plates to make. So, yeah, I think, uh, I think that's what I like cooking.

Speaker B: So from someone who's like a low key chef foodie with like this, you know, great TikTok channel, what do you think Dirty water pairs best with?

Speaker A: So I think it pairs the best with a lot of like, I would say, like greasier bar food. I think it does really well with, I mean, granted, you know, it is that dive bar food. And so like, I mean, I've had it with a salad, sure, it's fine. But I think like, the light crispness of, uh, it really does pair well with like something that's a little bit on the heavier side.

Speaker B: Definitely. So here's where I want to end off. And we were talking about this a little bit earlier, but right now you're kind of going headfirst and moving fast with just the original flavor, like the bread. Dirty water. But do you ever see yourself coming out with new flavors or new variations in the future, or do you just plan on sticking with the original for now?

Speaker A: That's a great question. So when thinking about building dirty water, and I think of it as, um, Coca Cola, right? So, you know, you want people to know dirty water as Coke, right? If I come out with a second flavor too early, then people are like, oh, which flavor of dirty water do you want? Which flavor of dirty water?

Speaker B: Dilute's like the original brand, right?

Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, people think of Cherry Coke as Cherry Coke. If you ask for a Coke for someone going to the store, they're not going to ask you which flavor, right? And so that's the first, most important thing when thinking about dirty water Hard seltzer. But I think the dirty water brand as a whole can go into other verticals much sooner. And so I'm actually exploring a non alk delta 9thC version of it. And so this would be called Dirty Water Hemp Seltzer. It's already taken on Instagram by me, so no one can take it already. And so that would probably be like, the next venture into it, uh, for more of the, like, low alk, like non alk drinkers, people who are going to more of these functional beverages, blend of Delta 9 CBD in the same kind of flavor profile as dirty water. So I think that would be the next. And then eventually I would like to make my Cherry Coke of dirty water where, you know, there is a second flavor that, uh, you could have for a hard seltzer.

Speaker B: Right now the plan is to build, like, a really strong red with the original and then have maybe other side variations or side flavors, but have like, the original brand be so strong as to, like, not dilute it.

Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. My, uh, one of my advisors calls it the, uh, the Red Bull.

Speaker B: Well, it's a cool way of looking at it, but, Don, man, I appreciate, appreciate the stories, man. It's been a blast. I always love learning about these cool CPG spaces because there's a lot of creative and artistic aspects to it, but awesome to see someone that's doing it and someone that's doing it right. And thanks again for coming on the podcast, brother.

Speaker A: Of course. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: What's, uh, up, businesses? Bloomin Squad. Thanks for listening to today's episode. I'm excited to say that the podcast is growing across all platforms, but I'm on a mission to make businesses Bloomin, the world's number one entrepreneurship podcast, and I need your help to get there. So if you've enjoyed the conversations and learned anything valuable from the content, then please subscribe to the podcast. Subscribing helps me immensely and lets me reinvest in the show to make things even bigger and better for you. So thanks and I'll see you next time.