Ep 79: Dirty Fuel? A Closer Look at What Drives Entrepreneurs

Speaker A: So I have that framework in my mind. So as I think about ventures I say yes to, or when I feel like I'm off track, I can kind of pull that up again and look at reality and say, hey, am I doing the things that I have already concluded make me happy. Because I don't think most of the people listening to this podcast, we're driven, we're motivated. The question really is, okay, what's motivating us? Right, uh, what's going on in our head that we're doing? Hey, my friend. Welcome to episode 79 of the Business Done Right podcast. I'm your host, Seth Buechley, and this is your place for faith forward business leadership. If you're motivated to make the most of the opportunities you've been given, if you're fueled by gratitude, this podcast is for you. I am a mentor, a lender, and an investor here to help you reach for your potential, impact your world, and leave a legacy. The Business Done Right podcast is the place where we have the privilege of connecting you with the wisdom, resources, and m people to build value in your business and your life. I'm very glad you're here. Today's episode is a special one because it's all about discovering what truly motivates you, that underlying, no denying motivation, and how you can avoid going through life burning with what we call dirty fuel. And what might that be? It could be negative thoughts. It could be promises that you've made. It could be fear that you're going to lose everything. If you don't wake up in the morning and hustle. You're going to love this episode. What made it so special for me is that I was able to drop into the studio with Brady Winders, my friend, and our podcast producer, and Trevor mock, who's the CEO and founder of Carrot.com, we had a killer conversation. It gave me a lot of energy, and I think you're going to enjoy it as well. And it's coming up right after today's moment of truth. Applying the timeless wisdom of scripture to our modern lives. Here's today's moment of truth. You know, as I'm recording this podcast, it's still towards the beginning of the year. And what that means for many of us is that we're at the beginning of the Bible, in our annual reading plan and at our church, we've been in the book of Genesis, but I've made it all the way to the book of Exodus. And in those two books in particular, we start to see God's Plan for the nation of Israel played out through, uh, Israel, the person and his son Joseph in particular. Joseph was thrown into this pit by his brothers, who were envious of him. But eventually he gets purchased and moved to Egypt, where he has all these other challenges. He's thrown into prison and he's falsely accused. But eventually he rises to leadership. And in that position of, uh, leadership, he's able to bring his family who had previously betrayed him, to come join him in Egypt, where he has been gathering grain so that he could feed not only the nation of Egypt, but those nations and those people around who were also starving. And then, once that crisis was averted, the people of Israel, the nation, began to grow inside of Egypt. In fact, they became so prosperous that the leadership of Egypt said, you know, we've got a real problem here, because, um, their prosperity, they being the children of Israel, is going to come at our expense. And so they began to harshly persecute the children of Israel. And then God at that moment, calls this guy named Moses to go rescue his people. You may remember the story from Disney's Prince of Egypt animation, but God calls Moses through this burning bush experience where he sees this bush that appears to be on fire, yet it is not consumed. And God gives Moses a vision for how he wants to use Moses to rescue his people. And Moses response is this in Exodus 4:13. But he, meaning Moses, said, oh, my Lord, please send someone else. And it continues. Then the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses. And he said, is there not Aaron, your brother, the Levite? I know he can speak. Well, behold, he's coming out to meet you. And when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. So here's what happened. God was angry, and, you know, that's not a good thing. But God was also gracious to give Moses some help. But we have to ask ourselves, why did Moses flinch? Maybe he wasn't fully appreciating that it would be God's work through him that would accomplish this amazing miracle and this task that was set before him. A question for us to ponder is, where are we playing it safe? Where are we asking, why me? We're thinking, can't you just send somebody else? Where are we telling God he's got the wrong guy? I don't have the skill. I don't have the time. I don't have the track record to pull this off. You see, my prayer for us, uh, is that we be willing to take on things that God is setting before us and that we proceed with the Confidence that if he is calling us towards a great task, he is the one who will strengthen and equip us to pull it off.

Speaker B: Hey, friends, welcome back to the Carrot Cast podcast, where we help investors and agents like yourself build businesses of freedom and impact. I'm your host, Brady Winder, and today I, uh, have with me two of my favorite, uh, faces and voices, uh, leaders that I have the opportunity to work for and do life with. Trevor Mock, co host, welcome back to your podcast, Brady.

Speaker C: What's up, dude? Now, you've been doing a great job with the man. It's been fun watching you.

Speaker B: Thanks, man. It's been a blast. It's been a blast. Um, it's been a bit since we've done one in the studio. And, uh, Mr. Seth Bueckley, this is your third time, I think so, yeah.

Speaker A: I'm fortunate. Very few people get that honor.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, welcome back. Um, so it's mindset month at Carrot. So we're talking about mindset. We use this word a lot as entrepreneurs, but what does this even mean? And it's kind of a catch all term. I don't feel like it carries a lot of weight. Um, but it is an important thing. So I know for myself, um, when I think about mindset, I think about, um, motivation. Like, am I in the right headspace to accomplish my goals? And I'm like, all right, am I doing the things that I set out to do? Am I motivated?

Speaker A: Um, um.

Speaker B: And then when I go a little bit deeper, I think about motivation. Um, when I'm having trouble with motivation and focus, as long as I'm getting water and as long as I'm getting sleep, it's usually like a purpose issue. Like, it's a fuel issue for me. Uh, when I'm talking about mindset. Uh, uh, so what I want to talk about today with you guys, when we're talking about mindset is really about fuel. Um, so not only how to. How to stay fueled, but good fuel versus the dirty fuel. You know, the dirty fuel, the things that, that leads to, uh, burnout, crashing, uh, divorce, uh, financial ruin, giving up part of your business, giving up on yourself. Um, so, yeah, I want to talk about that. I'll, uh, kind of kick it off to you guys. Uh, uh, do you find. Do you agree that, like, usually focus on motivation as a fuel issue for you, or is it something else? Kick it over.

Speaker C: You first, man.

Speaker A: Sure. Um, um, so, you know, I tend to process it. Uh, self awareness is kind of where it starts, is how am I, How Am I feeling right? So when you talk about am I feeling motivated? You know, often that question will come when you're kind of evaluating, am I getting things done that are important to me and if. If not why and. And where am I, you know, kind of where I. Where am I coming from? So kind of this debriefing with yourself all the time, and, uh, what I find is you. It's almost like you have to go above your feelings and above your mindset to kind of just be aware, like, what's going on and start to ask yourself questions like, am I on track or am I off track? And many times we feel it before we identify it. So taking a little bit of moment to be reflective and say, what's happening here? And then to start to drill into saying, okay, um, I'm not feeling motivated for these reasons, or I'm doing these things, and it's creating me a feeling like I'm off track. What's motivating me to go down that direction and really start to just kind of dissect why I'm doing what I'm doing? Because sometimes we just go into maintenance or reactive mode and we just do rather than think about what's driving us. What do you think, Trevor?

Speaker C: Yeah, and one. One thing Seth said was. Was the feeling part, right? Where. Where for me, um, big time. Like, when I'm feeling an energy drain, when I'm feeling unfocused, when I'm feeling unmotivated, it's usually because of going back to mindset. It's because I'm looking through a frame or a lens, uh, mentally that's putting me there, that I'm looking at the glass half empty. I'm looking at the challenges. I'm looking at, you know, all the reasons why something could go wrong, or I'm not looking at any of that at all, and I'm just going through the motions, which. When you go through the motions enough, um, you know, we were talking the other day, uh, this last two weeks, I kind of, man, I. I got myself into a weird mindset funk. Um, um. But then when I go. When I look back and, And. And go, well, why did I get there? How. Why did I get that feeling where my energy was out, motivation was low, Hurt my foot doing something stupid, you know, a few weeks ago. Couldn't walk hardly for, like, a couple weeks, and I walked on fire, man. It's. It's a. It's a mindset thing. So we can talk about walking on fire later from mindset stuff, but um, but. But, yeah, so I couldn't walk much. I wasn't drinking the right water. Like, you have one thing that kind of trips you up from that frame that puts you in the right mindset. It's then easy to go down the slippery slope, and then all of a sudden, the way you feel snaps you back in and go, shoot. What do I got to do to my mindset to get me back into the feeling I want to go in? So, yeah, if. If we. If we dive into that part of it, like Seth said, how do you recognize, number one, when you likely have a mindset that's not serving you? And then how do you change it? And then number two, when do you. You know, how do you. How do you really get the momentum and keep it there once you've got the mindset there?

Speaker B: Uh, I got another question before we move on. You said take a look. You said take a look above mindset. What do you mean by that?

Speaker A: Well, just. Just that. Reflective. Being reflective, uh, on first, how I'm feeling. Right. Just to be honest. And I find it helps me to talk to somebody about that, not just to process it alone, but sometimes to get clear and then to kind of just evaluate. All right, in light of. Now, this is where it gets a little deeper. In light of my purpose, in light of what I know is important to me now I need to measure my mindset, my actions, my whatever, up against kind of that purpose, right? But it all started with that, uh, kind of that early warning indicator of a feeling. Like, this sucks, or I'm tired or I'm angry, right? And then usually that's the trigger. Like, okay, now you got to evaluate what's happening. And predominantly, it's usually because I'm off track with what I value and what is really, really important to me, and I'm not doing it in my life. And that's where the mindset piece comes in. And sometimes I'm not doing it because it's hard, and I'm just tired, and I haven't, uh. You know, I need to just suck it up, and I need to get back to it, but sometimes there's something else. But I feel like it starts with a feeling, and then it goes into reflection. And now I'm like, okay, now I have a sense of what's going on. Now I can start to take action,

Speaker B: focus on what I'm not doing. What things am I not doing that are important to me? Um, so I feel like I know for myself I've got fuel at different levels. I got like your life purpose, the long, the long term. And then we have, uh, like seasons. Like, we even have short term purpose. Like, what's my goal over the next few months? What's my goal over the next few years? So I know, like, for me, my life purpose, I think about my purpose is like God, family, everything else. And, um, and after family and that everything else bucket. I kind of coined this phrase as I was prepping for the podcast to bring hope to the hurting, but just to share hope with people and encourage people. And so for me, I know that's what drives me is when I get away from that too, into the weeds, into the task, it's like, am I even doing the right things? Is it tied to that in any way, shape or form? So if it's not, if it's not tied to that big grandiose purpose, then I start to struggle. If I'm doing too many things, it just feels meaningless, like I'm doing the wrong things. Um, and then I think about, you know, fuel, um, for seasons. So I think about, like, if you're just starting out as an investor and looking to build your business, or if, you know, I've been laid off before you're out of a job, you know, it's easy. The purpose so easy because you got to pay the bills, you know, or if you're young and you're trying to provide for your family and you're trying to create an income, it's easy. My question, uh, you're gonna hop around here a little bit? Trevor, I want to ask you. There was a point in your life when Carly, your wife, was working and, uh, you were a new entrepreneur, and you've talked about this in multiple podcasts where you were at the point where you were paying your taxes on a credit card. It's flipped. Now you're running a multi million dollar a year business, but in the early days, the fuel for you was providing for your family. You've done that. You could hit pause right now and you'd be fine. At what point did that fuel run out?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's, it's a good question, man. So one, one thing first. People probably heard about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? And so I, I'm, I'm probably going to butcher it a little bit, but at the base level, it's like food, shelter, things like that, right? So, um, if, if you're down there and you don't have food, shelter, water, you're not going to care about the things up Higher, you just got to try to do that. And that's your motivation level. Right. And then as soon as you have that taken care of, I don't remember what the next one up, we might be able to pull it up, but then from there it's shelter, I think it is, or something like that. Right. Uh, so then up from shelter, then it's something else and something else. And so we can look at it and go through that. But I think no matter where everyone is, we've got to recognize where we are in the, on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Because if we're, if we're struggling to reach just that next level, the self actual actualization at the top of it or impacting others at the top of it is way down on the motivation list. Right. And so in, in those early years since I couldn't pay my bills, like that was the only thing I wasn't, I wasn't trying to go out there and just make a massive impact. I was like, I've got to take care of being able to pay my bills first. And if I can get that taken care of and you do it for a long enough time to where, because where that problem is now behind you, that's now not motivation for you to get away from something, to get away from a, uh, you know, uh, a bad financial situation. Now you have the flexibility to go, okay, what's that next thing now that I want to go tackle. So I, for, for everybody here, your, your motivations will change depending on how, how high you go up on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And when, when you go up there towards the top and, and you're past the part where income can really, where income is the important thing, that's where a lot of people get in trouble.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: I call it the three to five year turn and burn cycle for, for entrepreneurs is, is you get about three, five years into your business, you have the income that's there that you were hoping that you could get that would get you away from this income problem over here. Income's taken care of now. And now you start to fall into this mental slump to where you go shoot, more work and more money isn't making me happier. Let me go get distracted with these other four things because maybe distraction or new opportunities, what I need, when in actuality you need to tie yourself to a mission, a vision, a purpose that, that your work and your job fuels rather than just going to get more money. Um, once we had a family, it definitely changed for me. You Know, because your, your, your mindset and your motivation definitely changes a lot when it's just you going out there as an entrepreneur, trying to try to make the game work. Um, and then you get married and your responsibilities go up and you get a mortgage and your responsibilities go up, and then you have kids and you go, shoot, you know, am I being a good mentor? Am I being a good father? So things changed around there, uh, and I started really asking myself more of those questions of am I spending my time in the right spots? And when my kids get old, old enough to really recognize and, and see what I'm doing, will I be proud of, of what I'm doing? Um, but I think it was probably around 2012, man, where, uh, I was making good money, low six figures as a 20 something year old guy, but not happy, um, at all. I loved my marriage, you know, had every single reason why to be grateful, but I wasn't grateful. Um, and for me, do that. Next thing was just, shoot, I just want to do good work again that I'm proud of. And that was it. Like, that was just it. I just want to do good work that I'm proud of. That gives me energy. And then if I do more of that, I think then maybe the deck will get cleared so I can then find my purpose or my purpose will find me. And that's what happened around 2013, 14.

Speaker B: I love that it's simple. It really, it's almost too simple. It's good and it's true, but it's like, if I can do work that I'm proud of.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker B: Um, I want to talk about dirty fuel.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The elephant in the room. Um, Seth, when you're looking back at your 30s and your 40s, what's been dirty fuel for you or even mediocre fuel?

Speaker A: Sure, yeah. Um, you know, I came to an epiphany, um, probably in my, in my 30s, that uh, even though I'd had a fair amount of success, it's certainly more success than I expected, having been able to build a company, sell it to a public company, um, that I was still largely motivated by envy, uh, or at least I was, um, gripped with envy from time to time. So here I am, having had more success than I expected, yet I was comparing myself to other people who had more rather than comparing myself to where I had come from and what I'd been given. Right. And so that was a huge epiphany for me to have to come to grips with because of how I grew up or because I'm a human and I'm flawed. That I was still, uh, comparing myself and carrying this weight around, like, I deserve what they have, rather than just being a good steward of what I had. Um, and then that kind of launched me to, um, the process of trying to uncover, like, what. What is important to me. And, you know, that's an issue of prayer. It's an issue of thought. It's an issue of self discovery, of, you know, what do I value, uh, where are my gifts, you know, what makes me have joy, right? And, you know, I looked at envy in comparison. I'm like, that is dirty fuel. And some people can, um, make promises like, that'll never happen to me, or I'll just show them how successful I can be. And I've actually had conversations with some fantastic entrepreneurs in the carrot ecosystem around. They're just being driven to prove to people that they can be successful. And I'm not going to argue that it doesn't work. And one of the quotes that I have used a lot is, we're often driven by our dysfunction until we deal with it, right? And, and that's okay. It can be very practical. Everybody can think you're. You're successful, but that, that sense of peace and that sense of accomplishment and even significance that we really crave at our core level. I don't think you can get to significance and feeling like you're doing the work that you're put here on earth to do if you're really, like, doing it out of this place of dirty fuel. Like, I'm going to prove, or I've got to be, I would argue, famous, powerful, all these things. Like the influencers, you know, this is the culture that we live in right now, is how many of us truly believe that those influencers are living the life that we truly want. I think most of us have a healthy, uh, dose of skepticism.

Speaker C: And shoot, there's all the Twitter stuff going on right now with Elon, and he said this a few times, but he's talking about his work hours right now, right? So he's the richest person in the world talking about his work hours. And he sat in there and he said it before. He's like, people might kind of look at me from the outside, like they would want to be me. But he said, I guarantee no one wants to be me. He said, I torture myself more than anyone. You know, he said, I torture myself to insane levels and something like that. And so, yeah, and I want to kind of piggyback on what. What Seth said about the Dirty fuel. And I know for me, um, when I have been in those phases where dirty fuel is kind of thing that fuels you, whether it's proven someone wrong or I want to, you know, Competition, right? So if you're competing against another company sometimes, like, uh, I'm gonna whip that out of the company and I've done that, right. Or with carrot rights, like, oh, man, we're gonna crush that competitor. Which, which sometimes it's, it's kind of. It feels good to, to put, you know, a target out there to go, hey, winning for us means in this next, next stage, us being bigger or better than somebody. And, and it's, it always gives you a negative feeling like it doesn't feel good. And anytime where it has felt great and the fuel has felt great, it's always when I'm building others up. And I don't care if they're, if they're, you know, uh, building is bigger than mine. I just care that I'm building other others up versus trying to be better than someone else or trying to tear theirs down. So anytime you're trying to suit. That is such a good example on that, that marketing thing on Facebook the other day where someone posted something, they're not trying to build up the pie, they're trying to tear somebody else down in that respect. And that's not clean fuel. Uh, you're almost never going to win over the long term, and it's going to be very, very hard to have peace and happiness when you're leading with the dirty fuel guys. Build everyone up around you, make it so all tides rise, including you. And you don't care if someone else's ship is bigger than yours.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: Because yours is going to rise with it too. You're just pumped that you're adding value to the world.

Speaker B: Well, I think about, you know, shout out to the home buying guys, probably shout out every three or four podcasts, but, you know, Adam and Lance are CARE members, wholesalers, flippers, investors out of Dallas. Dallas is a massive market. A lot of carrot members in Dallas and a lot of them are, you know, succeeding and having success in a petitive market like Dallas. But they're not, they're not focused on can we be the biggest real estate guys in Dallas. They're just focused on, well, how well can we serve people? It's a qualitative, like, can we just serve people and show up as best we know how. To me, from the outside, working end seems to be a measure that. And it's working and sustaining them. They've been able to quit their jobs, grow their team, and they're happy doing it. They're making an impact. Um, yeah. So think about that. You know, I see a lot of people. Seth, I think you mentioned you've had conversation with some of our members and people that it's a chip on their shoulder. Yeah. They're out to prove somebody wrong. And I don't. You know, I had. I'm thankful that I had good parents who love me and raised me well, I think, hopefully. Um, but I never had anything to prove to them, I think. But to me, it was always like, I. It was more like, I need to prove my own worth to myself.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And so for me, when I think about motivation, that's, uh, that's a point where it's probably. I would challenge people, listening, watching, to look at it as like, am I trying to prove anything to anyone else? Am I seeking other people's approval? Or is there anything. Is there a way I'm looking at myself where I don't feel worthy or valuable or I need to accomplish something in order to feel, you know, in order to feel good about myself. Because if you don't have that figured out, if you don't have that identity piece figured out, if you don't have that worth piece figured out, then it's going to be. It's going to be an uphill battle.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think it has to do with what you're aiming for. I mean, that's the, that's the hard work of identity and kind of getting clear on what your ideal motivations are. It's hard work. It's personal work. It's. It's. How am I gifted? How is my personality? Um, satisfied. Right. What, uh, what's my. That whole Venn diagram we talk about from time to time. The thing I'm good at, the thing the world needs and the thing I can make money at. Right. It's like going through those processes. I think at some point, if we do the work, we figure out some sort of a framework, some sort of a guiding personal ethos or mission statement where it resonates with us, regardless of what anybody else would think about it. You're like, no, that's. That's just me. Like, for me, I discovered it was reaching for my potential, which is around growth, impacting my world, which is a reminder to me because I tend to, like, care and think and wonder about everything. And then every now and then I felt, you know, like God would speak and say, hey, take care of the people. Like Right around you that you actually interact with. Quit trying to reach people on the other side of the interweb. Right. Take care of the people that are literally in relationship. And then the last piece is leave a legacy, which for me is transferring values. It's like, what do I believe? What have I learned? What can I get to that next generation? So how does that play out in the real world? Mentoring, making myself available for people that are back to that impact? Um, on one hand, I'm impacting my world by making myself available from time to time to be a mentor. But that also satisfies that last piece, which is important to me, which is leaving a legacy. So I have that framework in my mind. So as I think about ventures I say yes to, or when I feel like I'm off track, I can kind of pull that up again and look at reality and say, hey, am I doing the things that I have already concluded make me happy. Because I don't think most of the people listening to this podcast, we're driven, we're motivated. The question really is, okay, what's motivating us?

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: Uh, what's going on in our head that we're doing right?

Speaker B: Yeah. I want to pause for a second on legacy. So I think legacy means different things to different people. I want to ask you what legacy means, because when I think about legacy, um, I used to think of it as, what are you doing right now? What are people seeing? Like, this is the legacy that I'm seeing. It's like, what's on social media? What am I portraying? What am I putting out into the world? And I'm creating this legacy that people can see right now. Now when I think about legacy, I think, like, what are people gonna say about me when I'm dead if there's nothing they see? Like, I want to be like, how my grandfather was. I want to follow in his footsteps. He did some things that were inspiring. I hope people say these things about me when I'm gone. So what do you think about legacy?

Speaker A: I tend. I tend to frame it in that. In that context, which is, um, people that I won't know or people that I will know for a while, and then I'll be gone. We all exit, right this life. I think about it, it's like, what's the residue that remains where, you know, how did you make people feel? And then the piece that I think we can be proactive about right now more than any other time in history, is we can actually record better and communicate more broadly the things that we believe and have concluded and whatever value, values and value we have to hand over, like there's a, there's a technical transfer that happens. This podcast is a medium for transferring values. Right. Uh, I was just on the phone with a, with a, uh, great entrepreneur, uh, Parable is the name of his company and he's helping, um, people do really nice videos of their parents to kind of give that legacy handoff to the next generation. But that's, that's, that's the transfer. As I was talking to him, I'm like, yeah, it's this transfer of values and there's all sorts of cool technology to help with that. Yep. How about you, Trevor?

Speaker C: What do you think the, the legacy Lacy topic? You know, I've been thinking about it for years and there's people I really, really respect that are big social media influencers and I know them and, and uh, they've been talking about late Legacy the last year.

Speaker A: And it's because we're all getting older.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Right. And, and one of the, one of the things that pops up that I'm like, man, when I heard it, I just don't agree with it. And there's some like, amazing people that are saying this where they're like, well, when we die, you know, there, um, there is no legacy because, you know, I've got this person who is this ruler of another country. 300 years ago, no one remembers his name and he had all these kids and like, so if even that ruler, who is this rich person, no one knows who they are today. You know, who am I going to be?

Speaker A: What do you think they're driving towards? Are they driving towards live it all up now, spend it now attitude or are they driving towards something else?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's, I don't know what the, what the name of it is, but basically when you die, every, like everything goes. So, so just do what you're going to do in this life. Right. And I don't agree with that. And so when, when we think about legacy, I think most people, and I could be this. But, uh, I think most people think about legacy as how are people going to remember me?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Which, which to me kind of comes from the, it comes from the self serving mindset. It's like, shoot, I don't want to die and then have people not think about me. And it's like, you're dead at that point. Your physical body is dead. Who cares if people say your name ever again, right? So for, for me, I really have shifted the last couple of years to really think about legacy. You mentioned residue. You think about values. Um, I'm going, it's far more important for my legacy to actually create actual uh, change that matters after I'm gone. That the things I did while I'm here, I put the right structure, the right things in place, inspired the right people that they're going to go now make change. I don't care if anyone, if my name's attached to it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: At all. Right. And so you uh, think of people like Martin Luther King Jr. His name has remained. Right. But this is just my guess. I could be off and I didn't know him, I wasn't there. But my guess, as passionately, passionately as he pursued that cause, um, my guess is he was willing to die for that cause. And he did because he wanted to create lasting change. He didn't do it because he wanted his name to be echoed, you know, for 100 years later.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so that's how I think about legacy is for me and I'll give a direct plea for people, listen to this, that if, if you're thinking about legacy as how will people remember me?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: It's probably more self serving and it's a little bit of that dirty fuel, I think. And switch, switch towards legacy. For what am I doing in my life to be able to pass along or create the things in my life that live on, that actually make the world a better place, whether my name's attached to it at all.

Speaker A: I love that. And I think that is a great distinction because in a lot of ways it's just a, uh, derivative of impact. In other words, we're saying, hey, I want to impact my world. We all would say that. Right? It's just saying, yeah, and I'd like to do it after I'm dead too. That's really all it's saying. Right. And that is the legacy. And there's a, there's a popular Christian song in the last few years which was I, uh, don't want to live a legacy. And I think it was speaking to the point Trevor was brought up, which is like, I'm not trying to build an edifice to myself or have my name be famous, especially more than God's name or you know, um, but it's like, hey, I don't want to pay taxes either. Right. But I'm going to. It doesn't matter if we want to live a legacy, leave a legacy or not. We're going to leave a legacy, period. Right. It's not, it's not optional it's really that question of. Of what about the things we're putting our effort and our energy to can outlive us. And, you know, it's. It's a fascinating thing when you start to think about, like, family. We just got. My wife and I just got back from Europe, and, uh, we were in this small town somewhere in Austria, and we got to go see a castle. Uh, the name of the castle was Clam C L A M. And we met the young family there, and we're in a room and they were like 14th generation that's had this castle. And it's a major thing for them to keep it up. And they're not like super high wealthy people, but they've kept this castle in working order. And so we're in a room, and the room was built in like 1525, you know, and, you know, and it was just one of those mindsets of, you know, there are people who are very intentional about something that outlives them. I would say in our culture, very, very few people other than a little bit of estate planning can think about movements or solutions or causes or ideas that live that outlive them. That's, to me, was a legacy kind of inspires that kind of stuff.

Speaker C: I love it. Love it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love what you said, Trevor, about lasting change. It's kind of similar to what you were saying, Seth, about how did I make people feel? So the thing about lasting change, it could mean, did I start the nonprofit I wanted to. Is that still, literally, tactically, is it funding people? You know, is it still operating? Or maybe it's real estate. Are these buildings still there serving people, affordable housing, things like that, Kids, right?

Speaker C: It's like, do we raise our kids right? Because if we have kids, which all of us at this table do, and we raise them right, that we pass along the right values and we're. We're feeding into them as, as fathers, uh, rather than being absent fathers because we're working too hard. Uh, then we hope that they then continue those same patterns. And then 200 years later, there's likely going to be some offspring that was literally there in the way that it is because of what we did and how we fathered those kids today. And so, yeah, it. I'll just kind of wrap this thought for me on legacy. It's like, it kind of irks me every time I hear someone say, hey, you know, legacy doesn't matter. I don't believe in legacy because my name, you know, everyone's going to be forgotten in 200 years. That's completely. I'm convicted. That's completely the wrong way to look at it. That's a selfish way to look at it. As in, it's about me. It's not about you. It's about the people that you're impacting. How you change the world while you're here that remains when you're gone.

Speaker B: Well, it's funny because it's like, it's almost. It's technically true, but it's the wrong thing. It's that. It's that saying of, people will forget what you said, but they'll remember, like, how you made them feel. Your kids are going to remember how you made them feel, you know? Um, yeah, how you look at them, how you treated them. It's. It's. Yeah, they're going to remember that. Um, so I got two questions. We'll wrap it up. We're about out of time here. One thing I want to look at is, you know, what are some actionable steps people can do? We've talked about some of them, but what are some of the things people could do to add more good fuel instead of dirty fuel? It's funny, I'm asking this question to two married men with kids. You know, I think about if you don't have family. I was having the same, this same conversation with another friend this week, and we were like, okay, well, what's purpose? And he said, well, it's family. I'm like, okay, fantastic for a lot of us, but what if you don't have family? That's hard for me to reconcile. Any advice for somebody without family? What's that purpose?

Speaker A: Uh, I think it's a theological question for me. Meaning it kind of boils down to why are you here on Earth and what matters? How do you keep score? Right? And people have to get clear on that. Right. For me, I know, uh, as a Christian, it's like, that's pretty clear, is, you know, the example is set and I, uh, can either build my kingdom or I can build God's kingdom. And when I build my kingdom, I'm not happy anyhow. And I just keep getting these gentle reminders to get my focus back on things that are eternal and that are going to last. You know, that's, that's how I have resolved that. I know that there are other people who have resolved it differently and come to their own sense of what's their ethos and what guides them. But to me, I think it's important to be. Have a true north, that you're Aiming for. A lot of people haven't done that work.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think that's good. That's kind of what I was mentioning earlier on the podcast. My, When I think about my life purpose is bringing hope to people. Like, I want to be a hope to people and encourage people, um, and share the hope that, you know, I found as a Christian as well, the hope that I found in God. I want to share that with other people. And so, and, and also because there's times when this might sound bad, but there's times when the family element isn't as motivating. And there's some people, I'm not one of them. I could always do a better job of serving my family. But you can also be on the flip side of, you know, or it's only about your family and you're sucked into your own little world. And it's all about my family. And you forget that there's other people outside your family in your sphere that needs your help.

Speaker C: And, and also, I mean, this is kind of, this kind of goes to the morbid side of it too, right?

Speaker B: Where I'm, um, always down for morbid.

Speaker A: Well, yeah, so you are wearing a black shirt.

Speaker C: I mean, that's the audio video, guys. It's like the black. They want to blend in.

Speaker A: So my. Never mind.

Speaker C: I'm not today, man. So if you guys watch this on the YouTube version, it's probably the most colorful shirt I've worn in a long time, other than orange. But, um, on the morbid side of it, I think when we do attach our, our purpose to something that technically, um, can die, let's say a business, human beings, uh, an animal, a, uh, non profit, you know, whatever it is, um, at least for me, I think having your family be a part of your purpose is obviously an amazing, amazing thing. But what happens if, heaven forbid, uh, and we know people locally that this has happened to, they get in a car crash and their whole family dies in that one moment? Then what are they, what are they living for at that point?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Um, because the things that they held so dearly to are now no longer there. And now they've got to go, oh my gosh, like, do I have a reason to live? Yes, you do. But so I think when we say our purpose is our family, it's probably one step higher. Like you're saying, to add hope. Awesome. Um, my purpose is to live in this way and deliver, you know, in, in this life, this way, to my family, to other people, to these people. Right. So your Purpose is, um, delivering hope or adding hope to people. Awesome. Your family should be included in that. They should be a very, very. Probably the most important people, uh, to you. And, and as you're fostering that, you're going to then do it to other people outside of them. So, yeah, for. For me, for purpose, it's like in the early days, especially when you're. When you're younger, even if you're not younger, and you're kind of searching for that purpose, and let's say you're wrestling with your faith. Uh, and during that time, you know, 2010, 11, 12, that's. I was in that wrestle big time. And so for me, the first thing that I did was like, well, let me just eliminate this weird pressure of banging my head against the wall, that I've got to find this perfect purpose that can be written on a. On a thing that, oh, my gosh, it's the, uh, I'm gonna save world hunger or, you know, whatever it is, right? And just. Just start with. And this is biblical as well. Just start with doing work that you're proud of. Start with doing showing up and. And using your skill sets, using what you're blessed with, with doing your darndest and helping other people with it. And when you start there and then you can start to have it expand. And it definitely is true for me that the purpose finds you, uh, versus you finding it, um, same thing. That's biblically as well. It's like, uh, you know, God. You know, God actually places the ability for you to, uh, come to him into you. And I think purpose is the same thing. You've got to be open to it. First of all, you got to be open to finding a new purpose. You've got to be open to, uh, experiencing things that are going to allow you to find that purpose or have that purpose find you. Uh, but, guys, clear the deck. If you're banging your head against the wall, you're going, man, how do I get this purpose? Stop looking for it. Just start putting your head down and going, I'm going to do work I'm proud of, that serves people. And I think that purpose will find you.

Speaker B: I think it's. I think it's really good. Again, really simple, but really good advice is, you know that there's been surveys done on my generation of millennial. Like, the thing that we value most in a job is, is, uh, the sense of. The sense of purpose or a sense of accomplishment. Basically, my generation, we're really comfortable. We have so much of what we need. And employers have done like, Carrot's a good example. You guys have done so much, but it's like, at the end of the day, people really value. They want to be doing work that matters. And so I think what you're saying, Trevor, kind of simplifies it as, like, okay, even if you're not passionate about, you know, the main thing that the business is doing, if you're working for Southwest Airlines and you're a studist and you're not super passionate about people's experience, they'll fire you. Well, terrible example, but, you know, so. Terrible example.

Speaker A: Sorry.

Speaker B: It's a, uh, it's the worst example. But. But how could you just focus on, am I putting out the best work that I know, regardless of where the

Speaker C: business goes, helping people, Right? So I think that's a good example for employees, right? Because we all get into those spots where sometimes we go through the motions and we're checking the boxes because this is the way the process has been for the last year. And I'm just going to do it because that's the way it is. And we feel like, why am I doing this? Uh, did I actually even create any value? And this is something I want to drive into the team the next year is like, look at those things. If we're not adding value to someone every day in our work, we're probably doing the wrong thing. So challenge that thing and say, well, maybe we should be doing this differently. And maybe it should be have these five steps cut out of it so we can actually add value quicker to people. Maybe we should adjust the way that we're doing it so it can really add value to people. So if you're an employee and you're listening to this and you're stuck in that and you're going, oh, my gosh, how do I do this? I'd encourage you to pull back and go, what would add the most value that I'd be pumped about in my work and then find a way to change that.

Speaker A: There was a study done by the High Performance Institute, and one of the characteristics of high achievers, they said is, and this was the last one they discovered, is that high achievers need a sense of necessity, meaning sometimes you have to do mental tricks to say, why do I care about this? Like, all my needs are met, life is good. I could coast, but I don't want to coast. So what's important enough for me to kind of get me rolling, right? And sometimes that can be a cause. It can be a business. It could Be the memory of a loved one or a family member that like, I made a promise to them. Right. In a positive way, not a negative way. Right. Is you have to kind of say, what's that thing that's going to kind of pull me forward? But we also need to realize that those are seasons of life. Things change. The idea that we're going to hammer out our exact purpose that never flexes with life and seasons of our stages of growing is not very likely necessity.

Speaker B: So I started doing this thing. Uh, we'll wrap it up in a sec here. I started doing this thing probably a couple years ago. Um, I felt that need. Like I need that constant. That constant visual right in front of your reminder of like, what's driving me. So I started a Apple note on my phone. Call it the wall of why the first I was gonna do at my desk is I was like, I need a bunch of photos and I need this. I'm gonna put them above my desk. But, well, what if I'm away from a desk? How am I gonna stay motivated? And then I gotta print the dang photos. I never did it. It's like, uh, a year goes by, I never did a thing. So I started on my phone, got a picture of my son. It's the first one. Got a picture of me and my wife and my kid at the beach. I got a picture of, um, a friend who I know, uh, in the carrot community who saved, uh, someone from. From uh, killing themselves. And like a really impactful story that he shared with me. So I have the photo that just kind of really grossed me. So anyways, started little Apple notes on my phone of the pictures. And there's an even quotes and little things that people have told me. Maybe it's like praise from somebody that you respect. You know, take a screenshot of that. Pull it up when you're down. Like I need some. What am I here for? You know, the quick encouragement all in one couldn't spot. I found that really helpful.

Speaker A: It's awesome reorientation, right?

Speaker B: You know? Yeah. Little walla wide. Just an Apple Notes. Um, we're at a. We're about out of time. Any, um, any last thoughts on like, what people can do to like glean actual steps to. To like make sure you're having good fuel. Anything you guys want to talk about there?

Speaker A: I would say, um, kick it around with your mentors, you know, somebody you can talk to about why, you know, uh, withstand scrutiny when ask you why we actually had this recently. I was talking to you about Starting a new venture. And you're like, why? And you know, rather than be offended, I was kind of like, okay, I got to answer that question, right? Because I trust you to ask those kind of questions of me. I think that's a huge, healthy part of, of. Of having some people around that you can if. And disclose. Right. We gotta be willing to disclose to people what's going on in that little head of ours and then withstand a little bit of scrutiny from people we love to. To push on us and ask us that question.

Speaker C: Yep. I love it. The thing that pops to mind for me is like, this is probably a whole nother podcast episode by itself. So I'll keep it to 30 to 60 seconds. But it's like, have. So there's philosophy, then there's principles. Right? So philosophy is the high level. It's the why. It's. Why do I do the things that I do? It's a lot of what we've talked about here. It's, um, I do this because of my faith, and here's what I believe. It's. I do this because I want to add this value to the world. It's, uh. There's an amazing book, Jim Rohn, 5. Five pieces to the Life's Puzzle or something like that. Everybody should read it every year. He talks about philosophy in that big time. But then you go down to principles, and those are the things that, like, what are the things that I do to stay in a good mindset and a good mental state? And some of those things, like, you should put in your life intentionally. Things that keep you there. So our Wednesday morning Bible study. Um, you know, massage. Yeah. Exercise three times a week in the office with friends. Um, massage on Thursdays. It gets me, you know, just thinking about, just rant wherever my mind's going to take it every. Every so often. And so get these things plugged into your week all the time that put you in that mental state that. That is going to set you up for success. Uh, most people actually do the opposite. Right. We let ourselves go into things that put us in a mental state that sets us up for failure when we don't put the. If we don't do the workout or put those things in, we probably get ourselves sucked into our phone, which is going to dramatically just torpedo our mindset. So, uh, set your philosophies in place. Those are going to be with you for decades. And read that book, Jim, uh, Rohn's book, to help you do that and then set those principles. Here's the principles I put in place in my life, and they're structured in to keep kind of being those checkpoints for me to make sure that my mindset's dialed in. It's hard going it alone, y'.

Speaker A: All.

Speaker C: It's hard going it alone. And it's hard when. When you're like. Like Seth was saying at the very beginning of the podcast, if you're feeling in a spot where you're low energy, you're getting burnout, you're not excited about the year to come, you're wondering if. If it's going to happen, rather than when you're probably not putting those things in place in your life or the people to be able to get you out of it more often. And you need to put those in place to get you out of it, and then write those down, lock them in, because you're going to get into a funk again, and those will help you get out of it faster.

Speaker B: I love that. Thanks for sharing that, man. Uh, one of my. One of my favorite questions and the questions that I hate the most to ask, you know, when we're talking about mentors, is, am I off? I had a conversation with my father in law this last week. Um, he is my mentor. And I was just like, this is what I'm feeling. And this is, you know, like a mentor is, like you've said, Seth is someone that knows you, likes you, trust you, something like that, something to that effect, right? And, um, I said, this is what I'm feeling. This is what's happened in my life. Am I off? Am I stressed? Am I not seeing things? Right? Am I off? And just having the vulnerability and the, uh, honesty to be able to ask that, to say, like, please chorus, correct me, because I don't know. And so, like, we're having this whole conversation about good fuel, dirty fuel. Sometimes you just don't even know. Like, you don't even know if you're being fueled by bad stuff. You might be being fueled by some of that, but you have no idea. So, like, so if you don't take away anything else from this podcast, take away that, that you need somebody else to call you on that, and you have to be willing to say, hey, am I off? You know, tell me if this is bad fuel or not. If you don't, then you're going through a blind.

Speaker A: All right, friend, as you can see, lots of good stuff in that episode. If you absolutely loved it, please take a moment to leave us a review on the platform you're enjoying this on, and then send it to somebody you think would benefit from what we discussed. As always, if you need anything from me or from my team, please reach out@cathedralconsulting.com and we'll be in touch. And we'll schedule a discovery call. Until next time. Keep building value, keep serving others, and keep doing your part to show that in God's world, business done right is a blessing.