Cialdini's 7 Principles, Ranked for Dentists

Speaker A: Because we have the ground game. We've actually built the practices that people aspire to create. History will prove one of us correct. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're not letting me finish, bro. This is how you become bulletproof. Bulletproof, Bulletproof. Bulletproof. Bulletproof.

Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the number one dental podcast in the world. As Craig always says, in his absence, we pay honor to him. Uh, today we have someone special here. It's Dr. Christopher Phelps. And the reason I have him here today is because Peter is someone that always reminds us of Ciardini's principles and how important it is and how it's helped him through his career. And it's something we get asked about in our Mastermind all the time. So we want to hear from someone that actually trained with Cialdini and was involved in the institute.

Speaker A: And, uh, Chris is certified, Ian.

Speaker B: Certified. And, um, also something very exciting for all of the listeners. Dr. Chris will be at the Bulletproof Summit on the 7th and 8th of August, where he will be doing a workshop on these principles that we will dabble in a bit today. So, Dr. Phelps, thank you so much. It's lovely to be here.

Speaker C: Yeah, thank you so much. And certified is right. And what, basically what that means, uh, is that I have a, uh, all the cues and trappings of a PhD in psychology without having the PhD training under Cialdini for a full year, uh, studying more behavioral science research than I care to admit. My final test, basically presenting this material back to the master himself, the godfather of influence. So imagine singing karaoke back to the original artist, and you're graded on how well you sing their song. No pressure, right?

Speaker A: So, Chris, you were on the pod ten years ago, so this has been a. A passion. And, uh, it was the same. The same principles, right? Talking about Chinese principles and influence. And I think the reason, Ian, that I talk about it so much in dentistry, especially to our mastermind, is because, you know, I think it's. I think it's the most underrepresented skill in dentistry. Right. No one likes coming to the dentist. People are scared. Most dentists are like me. They're either introverted or ambiverted. There's very few extroverts in dentistry, you know, like Craig. Craig. This stuff comes naturally to Craig. But I made a study of this early on in my career as. As a hack, if you will, so I could learn body language and be good at helping people get what they want and be good at enrollment. And many dentists, you know, new dentists, well, I guess new and, and old alike come and say, hey, what. What do you think would be the next thing I should learn, right? Because dentists are always wanting to learn and go next level with stuff, and they are very surprised when I don't give them a clinical pearl or a clinical, hey, go do bonding or go do this. It's my. Is not, uh, always like, hey, go study some ciao dingy, right? Go read the book, implement this. Learn the seven laws of kind of being liked, if you will. And also I tell them to go through public speaking because I see so many dentists, I mean, and I've seen this in my own ecosystem. It's the last thing I'll say. Sorry, Chris, but last thing I'll say is I see this out of school, right? As I, as I've mentored a lot of dentists in my own ecosystem, I will listen to their case presentation and, and we always default to a very confusing language and it's very clunky and uh, so public speaking and chowding. Any principles would go so far if you could kind of just take some time and master them. Maybe not to level you mastered them, Chris, but just getting some awareness to this, which we're about to do today, will take you literally next level as a dentist. If you think you're a good enrolling dentist now, wait. If you think you can lead your team pretty good, just wait till you hear this stuff.

Speaker C: Yeah, I can't agree more, Peter. And I think what this does, like when you do some public speaking, number one, you, uh, can start, uh, easy start with your own team to present to teach it to them. And in essence, when you speak to others, you're in essence trying to teach to them. It forces you to simplify it in your own mind, which means you really have to understand it well, right? So you will become more of a master when you do try to teach it to others in any, whether it's a small group or large group at a dental meeting or whatnot. So I can't agree with you more. And it's so powerful. And here's why. Like, you know the. We've talked about this earlier, like how did a child didn't even come up on my radar. And it's the old adage, uh, that when the student is ready, the master will appear. Right? So for those of you that know anything about my backstory, you know, I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina. I built 4 fee for service offices here, uh, took on some partners along the way. You know, 10x the revenue of the original practice I joined in 2003, uh, over a seven year period and decided to, even though I thought I'd achieved my goals, I, uh, in essence had trapped, uh, myself in my own business because I was doing clinical dentistry five days a week while running the operations of the four practices and running the team, managing the team, doing all the marketing, everything in between, right? And after my second son was born, I knew I had to make some internal changes, as one of my mentors says, to buy back my time. So I decided to do something bold and took over my two, uh, worst producing practices. So least amount of revenue, highest debt. And I sold my two best practices. So highest revenue, least amount of debt, uh, to a couple of my partners and me. And the original doc I started with took over those two struggling ones. And of course timing is everything, right? We're talking circa past, uh, the, just past the 2008 housing crisis. So when, you know, a period of 2008 to 2012 when more dental practices went bankrupt and in the history of dentistry, here I am taking over struggling practices, horrible, uh, economy, the first recession we'd had since the 80s. Patient, uh, mindset was all about doing nothing. Right? And that's one of the things about uncertainty as a mindset, whether it's a global uncertainty, a political uncertainty, a financial uncertainty, and a certainty locally in their world, uh, if you will. But when people are unsure, they don't move. They feel like it's safer to do nothing than to choose to do something right. Uh, that's not good for business, as you can imagine. So speaking of a horrible time to make this change and take over my struggling ones. So I had all these behavior issues in my practices, like, why are patients coming back for treatment? I mean, we're not making this stuff up. I'm putting the X rays in front of them. Surely they're logical people. Surely the facts of what I'm talking about should be enough to get people to move. Uh, because as we know, there's consequences for doing nothing, right? Uh, but why aren't they coming back? Is it the economy? Is it my team? Was it my associate doctors that worked for me? I don't know my team themselves. Like, I floated two days between each practice. So why was it when I was at the practice, people did their job? When I wasn't at that practice, they didn't do their job? As you'd say the old, when the cat was away, the mice would play. Okay, my associate doctors, why am I paying for their education? And they're not coming Back and using their education, they're not putting those new skills into practice, charging new things, which they could be. So I had all these behavioral issues going on, and I couldn't put my finger on why. And when your brain doesn't understand the root cause of the problem, it does two things to quote, unquote, help you. Number one, it could ignore the problem altogether. Right? Ignorance is bliss. What problem? In my case, it was doing something different. It wasn't ignoring the problem, it was just procrastinating on the problem. It's like, yeah, I see the fire. It's over there. But, you know, it's over there. I don't have to get to it today. I got time. Right? Another mindset that holds patients back from treatment, by the way, is I got time. So that was part of my issue, was I was procrastinating because when I had four offices, it was a project. You know, this is a new startup. It's going to take time. You know, it's collecting 35,000amonth, but, you know, costing 70,000amonth in expense. So when you got other partners and other practices, it's a, uh, it's an investment. When you're down to one other practice and one other partner, that's a problem. So finally I'm motivated. The fire is here. But I don't know what to do. I, uh, can't put my finger on why. Why am I seeing these behavior issues and thank God. A friend of mine invited me to a business conference and the keynote speaker was Dr. Robert Cialdini. And at the time, he had six principles of persuasion that he had done his initial research on and wrote his initial pioneer book on. And out of all of them, there was one of them in particular that was my aha, uh, moment where I was like, yes, that sucker right there. That principle is the root cause behind all those behavior issues that I was seeing. Hadn't heard about the book prior to that. So I initially, you know, down, you know, bought it, read it, digested it, went out, did training, found out they had a certification program, uh, they had not accepted anybody medical and dental. So I threw my name in the hat, got selected, and have had the profound, uh, pleasure to work with Cialdini, uh, for these past 15 years. And. But I took what I learned, all this behavioral science research, and then went back and, and tackled my challenges. I'd read a study and be like, well, it kind of worked in that study. That's interesting. Well, maybe I can kind of leverage that over here with patients or Team or whatever, because it's kind of similar in my mindset. So I would try stuff, I would use my practices in my laboratory, and the end result was pretty phenomenal within three years time, despite a horrible economy, uh, those practices were outperforming when I had four. Okay. In time, money, and everything in between. So it was a powerful example that showed me that the mistake I was making prior to this was I was making strategies around case acceptance and my business around the excuses people give us after. No. Right. And I was taking that for face value. Well, you're too expensive. Okay, well, here's my strategy. I guess I got to discount it or you don't take my insurance. Okay, I guess I got to take your insurance. I mean, I don't, uh, I would hope not, but I guess that's a strategy. What I learned was when you actually stop ignoring the excuses and back it up and start making your strategies around the things people are actually using to make the majority of their decisions, these principles of persuasion, none of those things matter, and everything can change. And as Peter said, you know, you, uh, know Craig is, is an instinctively good communicator, right? Anybody that's heard him knows that. And people strive for that like they want to do that. Well, if you know anybody like that. And what do you call the best communicators or the best salespeople out there? Instinctively, they're tapping into the persuasion principles, but it's just organic to them, it's just natural to them. Right? But because they don't understand the context of it, they're not consistent in doing it. In fact, most of the time, they can't even tell you their process. Why are you so good? I don't know. Just watch what I do. That's usually their advice. What's cool about this is what Peter said was for those of us that are not naturally good at this, because this stuff is based in science, I realized I could learn to be a better communicator and a better persuader and still do this in an ethical way for me and my patients. Right? So we both can win in this scenario. And that, uh, because of that now, that I can now be. Have more influence and persuasion than some of the best of the best natural folks out there.

Speaker A: So, Chris, you. It sounds to me like the spirit of why you wanted to go next level in learning this was from a leadership capacity of your team to understand the behaviors of why they weren't performing the way you wanted. Or was it that of a patient facing what was the Original spirit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, in essence, it was both. I was having all those problems at the same time. Management, uh, and my team, meaning doctors, associates and my team members, and the patient issue. And because of the financial crisis that was going on and that practice was struggling, I didn't have time to do them in sequence. I had to figure them both out at the same time. And was just lucky that the solution to both fell into the same category of persuasion. Um, so I was able to kill two birds with. With one stone, if that makes sense.

Speaker A: Totally. All right, so. So, yeah, I kind of alluded to. There's a few things. And Chris, I always say that. That my hope, when people learn stuff, whether it's in our mastermind or at summit, my hope is that you hear something or see something and that you're forever changed. Right. It creates an awareness to you that you just can't shake. And. And you're not going to probably master something on a weekend conference, just like you're. You know, just like it took you years to go through a certification to become a master. But that being said, it's little breadcrumbs where, like, success leaves clues. And my hope is that people hear some things today that they just won't be able to shake. Oh, and maybe there's an aha moment, like you're saying, ah, ah. Maybe that's it, right? Maybe I'm not doing enough kind of authority or creating enough liking or enough reciprocity or whatever, the things you're about to go through from a childhood persuasion. But I think this will give people, like I say, the breadcrumbs where they can start investigating or even even read the book and then deploy in their own petri dish of their life, which is their practice. Um, right. And look for instant, almost instant feedback.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And the biggest place for me for feedback was just tracking my enrollment percentage. I was like, okay, I'm gonna make a study of, you know, body language and Ciardini principles and doing X, Y and Z and slowing down and presenting. Right. As Einstein says, if you don't understand something, if you can't explain something simply, then you don't understand it enough. And I think that was a problem for dentistry too. For me. Like, I didn't understand some of the things. Like, to communicate them as well as I should have, uh, you know, to, you know, I would. I would default to gross debridement and injection and. And, you know, using all these dental terms as opposed to kind of ending with the benefit of them. I would. I would Default to just dental talk, which I see a lot of dentists do. And I think I. I think I said this. I don't know if I said this on take one or take two. This is take two, which is. But. But I used to listen to a lot of my associate dentists, and I would stand out the hall, right? Because if I, as. I kind of got good at this, uh, I would stand out the hall and just listen to people and most presentation out of the box. And when I say out of the box, I mean out of dental school. Most of our presentation out of dental school is horrible. It's horrible, it's scary, it's confusing, it's just horrible. So, like, these are skills. When dentists say, like, what do I need to learn? I'm like, you need to learn how to do talk like a human to dentists. Even though you, you have the DMD or the dds, you need to be able to communicate highly effectively and speak to the benefit of what is for them. So, Chris, I don't know where you can go from there on what I just said, but maybe you can jump into some of your. The principles. Um, now about how I think it applies to both, to both facets, right? Human, humans, whether they're patients or your team members. But like the, the site, the, the psychological reasons, right? The Chowdhury principles apply universally.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah. To patients, team members, uh, significant others in your life, personal relationships. Anytime you interact with people, these principles are at play and available, uh, organically for you to tap into for the betterment of you and that person. But you're right. I mean, oftentimes, listening to associates and other dentists that come to persuasion courses that I give, typically the case presentation goes something like this. Well, Mrs. Jones, you could do this option. You could do this option. You could do that option. Maybe it's a partial bridge and an implant are the three choices. Kind of present them in that sequence. And then the dentist turns and says, so let me get the financial team to come in and go over those options with you, and you can figure out which one you want to do. Peace out. And they're gone. So automatically, right? Yeah, a couple of critical errors there. Right. Uh, in the persuasion world, we talk about not only what we say to people is important, but actually the order in which you say it can actually set the stage for more yeses versus more no's just because of that order with no merit behind what you're actually talking about. So in this case, taking people up the stairs, you know, partial Bridge implants. So when things get higher in cost, when you present actually influences more people to say no to every option. When you flip it and you start with the best implant, bridge partial, automatically, more people say yes to not only the ideal thing, but every other option underneath. So more people leave saying yes to something than in the other scenario, when you take them up the stairs, more people say no to everything. If you saw.

Speaker A: Let me make sure I'm understanding you. You're saying start with ideal treatment first. Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying start with basic. Which stairway?

Speaker C: Yeah, if you're presenting options and those options have a different price tag to them, like, uh, they increase in value, if you will. You want to start your presentation, ideally, with whatever the highest valued thing is. Okay, so in this case, it's an implant. Then you go take them down the stairs and talk about the next valued thing, which is maybe a bridge. If you charge less than a bridge, then you end. If there's another option of least value, the partial, you would kind of go in that sequence. So just by, you know, dental school taught us to take people up the stairs, right? Go from low to high in value of things. Uh, but actually, when it comes to anything with a price tag related to it, if we flip it, we start with the best option first, then go down in options from there. Automatically, more people say yes at every stage.

Speaker A: So, Chris, let me ask you why this happened then in my career, when I got the most successful, believe it or not, it was when I was exhibiting, I guess what chowding, he calls authority. And I would give one option, not as a draconian move of, like, this or nothing, but I would kind of just be like, hey, I would assume, like, look, I'm the expert. You know, People came to me for what I think is the best thing, and I was like, you know what you need to do? You just needed to do 10. Now, granted, I was in. I only did for my entire career, literally only did veneers and cosmetics. So it was maybe a different. A, uh, different mindset that was already sitting in the chair. But, like, the best outcomes were always like, look, just trust me. This is. You need. You need to do decent because of your smiles. Uh, you know, give the reasons as opposed to the. You know, what was not as good is when I gave a plethora of options and I saw a dentist in my practice give this plethora of options in order to be liked. She wanted to do all the things possible. Here's all the things we could do. And like you said, the patient left or, uh, when the doctor left. When she left, the patients were ultimately super confused. Right. They actually came in wanting to sign up for something, but now they're really confused and she just handed them off to someone who really has no clinical judgment, the financial person. And they didn't know what to do. So it was like stuck in this weird chasm of like, unenrollment or like, let's do another consultation versus, like coming in and being like, Ms. Jones, I've looked at your pictures. This is going to be amazing. But you need to do eight veneers, not six, four or 10 veneers. And here's why. And that's all I would say. So can you explain. And, uh, maybe that was a. Maybe that's just a confidence thing, but may maybe. Can you explain that from a principles or maybe why that was actually the wrong way for me to do it?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's definitely in your scenario, the right way. And so we'll start with the choices thing. Cause you're right. So when you see how the dentist struggle, like I mentioned before, they're giving multiple options. And I'm okay with ethically presenting as many options as you feel like you need to present to that patient. I agree as well. I've tried to limit them as much as I can, but I get it. Some docs are just, they want to give options for whatever reason, uh, but the consequence is that you can't leave them with three options on the table without getting them committed to something. So when them with too many choices, like three treatment options, hand it off to the financial team. And then the financial team comes in and goes over three financial options for each of your three treatment options. Now, the patient has nine things they're trying to choose from. And as you said, they can't tell any of them apart. In science, we call that, uh, the paradox of choice. Right. Number one, we need a choice because we don't have a choice this or that, right. Then we're not really committed to it. But number two, the more choices we have in front of us, it's the paradox. We're less likely to choose any of them because we can't tell them apart, so to speak. So that's the mistake people make. You're giving options but get it without closing them on something, getting them committed to something. Now, in your scenario, you were giving them an option. You were like, hey, do nothing.

Speaker A: Do nothing. What would I say?

Speaker C: You came right. As an authority, they're seeking you out As a true authority, an expert in cosmetics. And there are numerous studies that show that people, we look to, credible, trustworthy experts to tell us what we should do, no questions asked, so to speak. In fact, giving your own, um, personal recommendation and endorsement, hey, if you were me or if you were my person in this situation, this is what I would recommend or this is what I would do for them automatically has increased case acceptance by over 24%.

Speaker A: Well, people want to be told what to do at scale, I think, Chris. And maybe this was going to be offensive to people, but there's a reason that ChatGPT is so popular and people ask it like, what should I do here? Where there's a reason people type in shit in their navigation when they actually know how to get there. I think, uh, uh, uh, in general, people like to be told what to do as long as they know that there's a benefit to them.

Speaker C: Yeah. And like I said, as long as they know that the person telling them has true experience and wisdom in this topic and is somebody they can trust. Right. That's the two parts with authority, expertise and trust. If you check both of those boxes. Yeah, we want experts. We need experts to tell us what we should do because we don't have time to be an expert in everything.

Speaker A: That's right. That's. I think that, I think you just nailed it. I think it's a scarcity of time. It's like, look, how do I get to the, you know, as the primordial brain? Like, how do I thrive and survive as quick as possible? And I think you're right. Like you, I think that this is probably some of the grounding in cialdini. Like, just tell me what I need to do to survive and then tell me what I need to do to thrive. And you know, in this instance, like a cosmetics, that's a thriving thing because it makes you, uh, more attractive or you get the job or get the girlfriend or get the boyfriend or get married, whatever it is. Right. That was a lot of the motivation. Right. Thinking that, that it would change their life on the, on the outcome.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, yeah. Think of it this way. Like, uh, how. Have you ever thought about how much information we are bombarded with every day? Uh, especially with the advent of the iPhone. Right. Social media, content marketing, messages sent our way. How many things are on your to do list today? How many decisions do you have to make on a daily basis?

Speaker A: Thousands, I would guarantee. Right. By the time, by the time the day is over. But am I right? Do you know?

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, it's like 10,000 decisions a day, and that's before you go home. And then there's another couple thousand things you gotta deal with. So the truth is, our brain is so overloaded with stimuli.

Speaker A: Wait, can I ask, can I double click on that, Chris? Cause I think this is important to talk about. So you're saying a thousand decisions a day or a thousand stimuli a day? Because you don't need to, uh, you don't need to create decisions on that. I guess maybe, uh, maybe when you see something like I don't need to do anything, there is a decision. But like, for example, the emails, the push notifications, the advertising, the what running around, you're saying there's 10,000 stimuli a day. What, what is this decision that happens from that? Like, because there is a thing. And I talk about this in the Mastermind, decision fatigue. That's why you have to extricate yourself from, from being the, the nucleus of your dental practice. Because you will leave exhausted every day, not because you marathoned, but you're mentally fatigued and, and, and burnt out. And that's where a lot of burnout comes from. A dentistry. It's not from the dentistry, it's from the decision fatigue.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Well, I think about it all of that, Chris.

Speaker B: Sorry. Before you jump in there, I want to make sure we stay factual here. So, researchers estimate that the average adult makes roughly 35,000 decisions every single day. And this staggering number, Pete, to your point, includes everything from major life choices down to micro decisions, such as pressing snooze, should you do that? Or the words to use in a text message. Or how to stare at a screen. Uh, yeah. Or how long you stare at a screen. And it says the vast majority of these choices are handled automatically by your brain. So to the people out there saying, no, man, it can't be 35,000. A lot of your brain is just firing off synapses in order to do these things without you knowing. And that's where this decision fatigue comes in, Pete. Exactly. The research mentions it.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, think about it. The brain is half looking, half listening. It's scanning everything, making these micro decisions without you even realizing it. Do I, do I slow down now before the stoplight? Or do I wait even further before I get to the stoplight? Right, these minor little things on the subconscious level, but ultimately they're stealing energy away from you. And so our brain has learned that it's looking for things that signify, hey, give me a quick shortcut that this is going to Be a good decision and gone. And I don't have to mess with it anymore. As Pete said, like, we want people to tell us what we should do in this aspect. If it's going to be a good decision and it's going to be gone. And through time we've learned that when these principles are present in our environment and we're exposed to them, it bypasses rational thought, emotion triggers us subconsciously, uh, and moves us down a path. Because we've learned that when they're there and we follow them, they're in our best interest. Things tend to work out same.

Speaker A: So, Chris, if you could quickly just go over, like, what are the principles? Because we throw that word, uh, out. What are chatting's principles? And then I would like for you to maybe then rank those for where you see them being the most applicable in the space of dentistry, since this is a dental pod. Right. I'd like to hear, like, what are the. What are they? And then, and then what is the most important for us to master? Good question.

Speaker C: All right, so we got reciprocity. Reciprocity is that if somebody gives you a gift of value and significance, an obligation is created inside of you that you feel they need to give back. In kind example, somebody gives you a present on your birthday, you're probably gonna give them a present on their birthday. They do you a favor, you're probably going to do them a favor. Liking, uh, we'd like to do business with people we like. It's a fairly simple principle, but ultimately it's, we like to do business. We like to say yes to those who are like us, who have some kind of commonality, some kind of connection to us. Similarity, if you will. Unity is our newest principle of persuasion. Dr. Charlie dropped this when he wrote the book Pre Suasion. But unity is about, uh, not like liking. Liking is, uh, you are like somebody else. Like, so Peter and I could be. Have, uh, a similarity. Maybe we're from the same hometown, right? So that's a liking similarity. But if I associate myself with that town, I, you know, picture myself, you know, and love that hometown. And Peter couldn't get out of that hometown fast enough. He's disassociated himself from it. That we're not united under the fact that we're in that hometown. So oftentimes we unite ourselves under certain categories of things. So it's not like we are like that thing. It's like we are that thing. Like your family, right?

Speaker A: What?

Speaker C: Parents look at their kids as if it's themselves in that aspect of it, culture, uh, religion, sports, teams. I mean, there's all kinds of things that we can unite ourselves under. But in essence, if we're in the same boat as that person, we're on the same team, and that person asks a request of us, then it is in our best interest. We want to say yes to that person. Social, uh, proof. A, uh, very powerful principle right now on online mainstream stuff and media. But social proof is basically, we oftentimes look to the evidence of what others are doing to tell us what we should be doing. If the crowd's moving a certain direction, uh, oh, maybe I should too. And yes, we all want to be unique individuals, different than everybody else. But if you think about it, we all want to be unique individuals that are still part of, uh, a community, still part of a tribe, still part of a group. Right? So we congregate. We. We flock to others for that very reason. So if that group, whoever we associate ourselves with, is doing something different than us, there's an influence on you to do the same. We talked about the Authority.

Speaker B: Is that Chris. Sorry, is that where if. Let's say Pete's in the office and he's saying, uh, Ms. Jones, these are your two options. Or in his case, this is the option. And this is what most of my patients see amazing success with. Is that a little seed that you can plant as a dentist to have that social proof part of these principles in your treatment presentation?

Speaker C: Yeah, big time. Um, like, in addition to the authority making a recommendation, if you or my. Whatever. I would do this, citing evidence of what others have done and many others, in this case, like a majority, definitely, uh, has a huge impact on what people choose for themselves. And that kind of goes back to that uncertainty aspect. If I have experts telling me to do it, okay, maybe I'll be safe doing it, even though I'm unsure. But if I see all this evidence, like, wait, all your other patients have done this? Okay, maybe this is a good choice for me as well. Right. So social proof and then the authority, having credible experts tell us what we should do are powerful principles to help decrease uncertainty. Uh, consistency was the principle I was alluding to earlier. To me, that's the. It's called the, uh. I call it the commitment principle, uh, because, in essence, if people make a commitment, then they do. Right? It's as simple as that. So suddenly I. My light bulb moment was, well, why aren't my patients doing treatment? Why isn't my team doing their job when I'm not around? Why are My associate doctors not implementing the education that I paid for because honestly, I wasn't getting a real commitment out of any of them to do any of those things. My theory was if I could change the commitment, I could change the behavior and everything that followed. And it was right. Okay, sorry, Chris.

Speaker B: Pete, do you agree with that? I saw you. You had a thinking face there.

Speaker A: Well, I want to keep going. Uh, yes, I, I do have some, some commentary. And then I want to actually show, like, through each of these principles, where I adapted the movements of the practice from a, um, from an ideology standpoint to, um, after reading. And I want to see what Chris thinks about. Because, look, at the end of the day, Chris, I want people to leave with where the rubber meets the road. What things can I implement tomorrow? Or try this or do that? Maybe it's not from today's pod, but maybe from when you speak at Summit. But I like there to be like, hey, just tell me the tip. Just tell me the hack of what I need to do in my practice. So I'd like to kind of share with you what I did, because I am by no means certified. I just am a pretty good learner. So. So, Ian, that's what I'd like to do. Uh, so keep going. So, uh, Chris, I think you have one more right.

Speaker C: Yeah. And not only are you a good learner, but you're a good implementer. You practice, right. You attempt to put things into motion, and then you learn from those things. Right. That's how any grows. Uh, yeah. Our last principle, of course, is scarcity. Uh, probably the principle that's been abused the most unethically against us across the board. But when we talk about scarcity, we're talking about true resources. If resources are limited or dwindling or about to run out, then it uber motivates you to want that thing more and do more to get it. Meaning put more time and money into getting it, even if you didn't want it to start with. Right. So when you picture resources, picture something like this, like life or death resources. So if I told you the oxygen was running out of the room you're sitting in right now, most of you would probably want to know that information before it runs out, instead of when it runs out. Because if you know before it runs out, what's it gonna motivate you to do? Let's get the heck outta here and go find some oxygen. Right? So the challenge with scarcity is our brain, that fear that's behind it of life or death, resources running out hasn't, uh, transcribed or translated into it. Not realizing that everyday, mundane things are gonna run out, don't matter. It still has the same pull on us as if it's life or death, which is kind of crazy.

Speaker A: Chris, gun, uh, to your head. You can pick one to go to your practice. You can only master one in your. In your new dental pract. Of the seven is the most tractionable, which is the. Gonna actually create the most revenues, the most happiness, the most fulfillment. You get to pick one for dentists.

Speaker C: Well, yeah, I would say. Here's the mo. I'm gonna say here's the caveat. The most powerful.

Speaker A: He can't do it. He loves them all. He loves them all. No, there's a gun, Chris. There's a gun to your head. There's a gun to your head.

Speaker C: Only one.

Speaker A: There's a gun.

Speaker C: Well, I can tell you the one. Every dentist screws up the most, and it's costing us billions. But the most powerful is the commitment principle, by far. Okay, we're not getting commitments out of anyone. Not really. To do the things that we're asking.

Speaker A: You know why, Chris? I have a hypothesis on this.

Speaker C: Why.

Speaker A: Why do you think we're screwing it up, first off? And then I'll tell you what I see in. In my. In my advisory role. But you tell me why you think people are screwing up.

Speaker C: Well, I think a lot of dentists screw it up because they think that they can just use logic, show them the evidence. Hey, here's your issue. Uh, and they think that the patient understands their dental condition like we understand it as dental experts. Uh, and so there shouldn't be.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, uh, I'm glad you said that because. Because it's not what I was going to say. Right. And so now we have two different vantage points. So where I see people screw it up is that they abdicate this responsibility to technology. Hey, my weave does this. My. My whatever. My PBN does this. And technology creates no accountability for humans. Right. It's easy to ignore the text, the 35,000 decisions, but it's really hard to say, hey, at the end. At the end of your appointment, you say you look someone in the eye. Right? And this is the commitment part. And consistency. Hey, Ms. Jones, you're going to get a text from us. Um, can you just make sure to make this. If you can't make this next appointment. Right, right. Can you leave a review, but basically get a human connection. Don't just say you're going to do it, actually wait for the Answer, will you do it? Yes or no kind of thing. And so many of us, Chris, we want. We looking for the speed of our business. And it's, hey, my technology does that. So there's no verbiage anywhere in the office about commitment, about next appointments, about anything, because the technology is handling it. And then they're not getting the right result from that. And they're like, I don't know, this isn't working. I'm like, no, no, no, it works. You just didn't ask for the pre commitment kind of thing. You didn't ask for the consistency on the front end. So that's. That's where I think we are screwing. It is outsourcing things that should not be outsourced to technology.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I agree. Uh, not getting. That's one of our commitments, a verbal commitment. Not getting people to write their own stuff down. Getting those written commitments. You know, when you get something automated. They didn't commit to that, not really. Uh, and therefore they don't feel obligated.

Speaker A: Well, there's no accountability, Chris. Right. Like, meaning, like, I don't. Who is this text message? This is just a computer. This is an iPhone. This is somewhere, like, I could ignore this one. No, no human wrote this to me. No human asked me to respond. Therefore, I have no liability to do it.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, that's a big problem with technology, especially with the advent of AI. It is. It's causing two big problems. It's isolating us, uh, more than it's bringing us together, and it's causing us to distrust everything that's put in front of us. Uh, so the best businesses moving forward are gonna be the ones that refocus on the relationship, as you just said, getting that personal connection back with people, getting those commitments to them on a personal, uh, basis, and those that highlight transparency. Okay, this is a place you can trust, and things that are seen here are trustworthy. Um, that's what the market's gonna be resonating with as we move forward in this crazy AI world.

Speaker A: I would agree. I would agree. I think a. The presence of AI. You know, we just wrote a new book, Craig and I, and it's called the Patient Experience. And I tell people that that AI is not to just like, keep isolating yourself from. From either. It's. It's let humans do human things and let computers do computer things kind of thing. And so it just increases the bandwidth on which we can provide awesome patient experience and really study the things about the body language or Ciardini's Principles and really get good at the human things, right?

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: You know, that. That's. That's where I see the benefit. It's not to, like, oh, I can run my dental practice with one human. It's like, no, that's not. That was not the intent. Not the intent.

Speaker C: So. Okay.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: So thank you for the gun to your head. I. I know you didn't. I know you didn't like that very much, but, uh. But you did well. Did well. Yeah. Thank you. Um, so can we. Can I talk about a few things? And I'll make this super pithy. Um, can I. Can I tell you how I. I took action like you said? I. You're right. I. I am. I'm very good at taking action. Very. I'm very comfortable with screwing things up. Um, Chris. Right in. In my own. In my own petri dish of my world. And.

Speaker B: But.

Speaker A: And, you know, it's like shots on goals. What I always say is, I tell my kids that, like, you're never gonna score if you don't take a shot. And so I'm very comfortable taking a shot on a goal. And so let me tell you what I did. So I took. I took the seven Ciardini principles, and. And I broke down. I'm gonna break down what I did in my ecosystem.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: Law of reciprocity. This was the big reason I wanted to have a new patient gift of some sort of. Right. So we give away a pretty big gift on the front end to every new patient. And I. I, uh, give a sonic toothbrush away. Not a sonic care, but I have my own branded toothbrush that I had developed overseas. Okay. So that's a. A gift of value, right? So that was, number one, the liking. During the course of the meeting, I would find from an introvert perspective, I'd find at least one connection point. Like you said, hey, I'm from Minnesota. Hey, I like the Georgia Bulldogs, right? I would just find one. And that's a. That's a win friends and influence people principle. So for number three, the authority, like, I was. I really adopted in my marketing crisp, I became. As opposed to me being the hero. Look at me. And all of my fellowships and aacds and all the things. That was the wrong approach. When I adopted the I am the guide and you are the hero of the story, Everything changed for me, right? From a marketing perspective, an online authority, but I was still the authority. It was just like, let me help you be. Let me help you take me, um, Usher you to where the holy Land of where I know you can be. Okay, Number four, the social proofing, right? This is why I pounded on reviews, you know, the Yelp at the time. Um, being on social, right, getting, getting that social awareness. And so this is why we pound on it. Not just because it ranks you higher, but because like you said, people are looking for what, what are the masses doing? So scarcity. This is why I never really offered discounts, because I felt like discounts would devalue what we were doing. And, um, the same reason that even though I had, if someone canceled on me at the last minute, I did not offer them an appointment the next day in hygiene, even though I had an availability, I would. It was painful, but I would push them out far, far to create that scarcity cycle. Psychology, um, the commitment and consistency. We talked about just, just recently about the, you know, that as the reappoints and recare and getting a commitment from someone to come back to your is. And then what's the last one? Like the value proposition?

Speaker C: I think you hit them all except unity. Unity.

Speaker A: Okay. So I don't, I don't know. I didn't, I don't have unity other than, uh, I think that's kind of nested or it would be for me under the liking, but maybe not. Maybe it's, it's a whole thing in itself.

Speaker C: Yeah, so we'll start with that one. So all great examples and uses of the principles. Kind, uh, of. One of the ways I recommend people leverage unity is use, uh, unitizing language with your patients. So it's not, Mr. Jones, how are you going to get this done? It's, let's sit down together and figure out how we're going to get this done. So using we, us, our, together. Um, you know, many of you know,

Speaker A: a lot of that's a. So can we double click on that, Chris? Because I think this is good in case presentation, which is, I think what you were going to. So as opposed to. So most dentists, and you probably see this too, Chris, I know you've mentored many, many dentists through this process. Most dentists will, will talk to a patient for their solutions. When the patient is reclined, they're talking over em. The patient's looking up their nose. They're in a very vulnerable position. Right. And they're. And now we're talking about something that's scary. Dentistry. Okay, Right. So I always tell people like, you know, this is the whole, you know, we talk about this at dentistry, right? It's, it's, it's the, um, the trust transfer. Right. And in that process of transferring things to other humans on your team, there is a part where I'm sitting side to side with a patient looking at something. Uh, and it. And it's a unity thing. It's not me on the other side of a table. It's actually us sitting side by side looking at. Here's what we should do. To your point, the unity thing. So even though I didn't know that principle, I was advocating for it in another kind of methodology inside of what we were doing. So that's great to hear.

Speaker C: That's a huge unity move. Uh, because what people don't realize is when you're sitting across from someone, especially if you're meeting them for the first time, it's a potential conflict situation you're facing off, right? It's a you versus me. But that's that simple act of sitting

Speaker A: next to car dealership. Think of car dealerships, right? You're on the other side of the desk. It's me versus you. That's why consult tables, I always built as against a wall. And they were. They had a little semicircle, right? But it was. We were both staring the same direction, right? I could have held their hand if I wanted to. Be like, we're going to get this versus the me versus you. And so I love that because, like, I think car dealerships screw this shit up, right? Like, uh, that people going ready for a battle. And everyone knows the proverbial car dealership, they hate that experience almost more than they hate the dentist.

Speaker C: Oh, my God. Big time. Well, that's why you see more people thriving to do any. Buy a car any other way except go through that experience. Your car.

Speaker A: Shout out Carvana. Have you ever done one that way?

Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's.

Speaker A: Holy shit. That is amazing.

Speaker C: Yeah, they totally made it convenient and took out all the hassle. Right?

Speaker A: Uh, this message brought to you by

Speaker C: Carvana, our unofficial sponsor.

Speaker B: Put in code Carvana. BP

Speaker A: is amazing. It really, you know, I thought about that though, in my buying process, and I relate everything to dentistry as I can. I look, I drive around Chris and I see a building. I'm like, that could be a good office. Or I look, you know, anytime I have a wow experience, you know, and drive a Tesla, I'm like, how can we implement this kind of technology? But when I bought a car on Carvana, I traded it in. I was like, this was the. This was the least amount of friction thing I've ever done with the biggest result right And I was like, how can we do that in dentistry? Like, how can, how can you create the Carvana experience for dentistry? Because, because 95% of people, 95% of us are doing it the old car dealership way, right? Ooh, fill out all these forms. Oh, do this.

Speaker B: Oh.

Speaker A: Jump through these hoops. Oh, you know, see if you can find us kind of thing. See if you can get on a schedule. See if you can find the doctor, right? Like all these, all these crazy, like, time sucking things. But I, I bought a car with my thumb during, at my son's baseball game and the car was delivered to me on a flatbed. They picked up my old one and gave me the new one. And I was like, holy shit. Anyway, sorry, I just, you know, I'm an advocate of taking great things outside of dentistry and trying to put them inside, right? Because, because success, like I said earlier, success leaves clues. And if we can really try to implement that in our own, you know, I'll say it for the third time, our own petri dish. I don't know why I'm on, I'm on that nomenclature today. But, you know, it's our own, it's our own place where we can, we can test and experiment things. And there's limited, there's limited downside and massive. There's an asymmetric risk, right? If you're wrong, you're like, okay, that didn't work. But if you're right, it can categorically change your practice big time.

Speaker C: So think about what you just said. So historically, the masses have always valued money over time, meaning if they could save money, they put more time into it. But now the convenience age has reached this pinnacle where the masses value time over money, right? And if they can save time, make it convenient, they will spend more money as a result. So in essence, what this persuasion does in your communication is you're actually making the case presentation process more convenient for the person, decreasing their mental fatigue, right? Stress energy, and is this right for me or not? And moving them faster to the end result, which they want. Okay? And we're not screwing it up anymore. Most of them coming in want something, and we end up figuring out a way to talk them right out of it.

Speaker A: So, uh, well, they want something as long as you can prove how it benefits them is what I've learned, right? Does this make me a more fit and agile human? Right. Does it remove the pain for me? Does it make me better looking? Like, how does I always say people do three things and I totally masterminded we're going through this decision, 35,000 decisions a day.

Speaker C: What?

Speaker A: And your mind is asking all the time, what is this? You know, and then if you're, if you get engaged in it, you're like, typically, how much does this cost? And then third, like, how does this benefit me? How am I going to be a better human because of this decision I'm making? And that was a little bit like grand of a, of a, of a thing to say, like, how does it benefit me? But I think we're always looking like, should I buy this piece of clothing? Should I go to the dentist, Should I drive this car? Should I go to this outing? You know, what should I do? Everything is like, how does it benefit me? And not from a selfish, self serving standpoint. I think it's just the way our brains, our DNA is wired.

Speaker B: Chris, I want to ask you.

Speaker A: Sorry, I'm taking you down a path. You're like, dude, this is not, this is not my stuff. Like, get off of this, Bolden. You are taking us down rabbit holes, you dummy. Stop it.

Speaker C: Well, all rabbit holes lead back to persuasion, no matter what. So it's all good. That's true.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: Chris. To end us off today, I would love for you to give our listeners just a very brief rundown of what you will be teaching at the summit during your workshop and, uh, what they have to look forward to.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Uh, so I'll be covering two things in my workshop. Number one, persuasion, which we've been talking about, which is in essence, which of Cialdini's principles are available for you to tap into when you're with your patient in that moment that you're together. Okay? That's what persuasion's all about. When you're with the people at the same time, we're going to talk about pre suasion. Okay? Pre suasion is all about mindsets. We talked a little bit about mindsets earlier. I cannot underscore the importance of the patient mindset because they're coming into a situation with you with a mindset already established. If you don't do anything to change that mindset and refocus it back on what they value about what you're going to talk about today, then the mindset they're coming in with in this moment is distracting them from what you want to talk about or directly competing with what you want to talk about. Either way, unless they're in pain, the door to yes is shut. Okay? We have to get patients in the right mindset and reframe that mindset back on what, uh, they value about their oral health. So I'm going to talk about how do you do that? How do we get them in the right mindset before they even get into your chair? Okay, if you got him in the right mindset, now you got a chance. The door is open automatically. You'll see higher case acceptances without doing anything different. If you just get him in the right mindset. Uh, uh, we'll be covering the seven principles, and I'll show you a, uh, behavioral science technique that I've mastered, uh, over the years and teach other dentists on how to ethically present, as I said, as many options as you feel like you need to, but ultimately how to get the patient committed to something. And usually that something is the ideal treatment plan. And then we'll be discussing. The last bit is, once they're committed to the treatment plan, what are the influence strategies to influence a yes to the financial arrangement. Right. And if there are any financial barriers, how do we overcome those barriers in that moment? Can we get them committed to a number that does work for their budget, if money is the real issue, and then reverse engineer a way to make sure that budget amount monthly works for us? Right. And most of the time there is.

Speaker A: So this is for your team, too. Like, this isn't just for doctors. Say, hey, come and listen to Dr. Chris Phelps. This is, like, this is really alignment of your team, helping them deploy these principles.

Speaker C: This is great, great, big time, big time. And we'll be talking about, uh, what people use to make their decision. Right? How do we decide if something's tall or short? Right. If you're five foot two, is that tall? Is it short? How do you define, is there something cold or, uh, hot? Is it expensive or inexpensive? Like, what do people really use to create those values in their own mindset? So, as Peter said, it's great for the team because if they're presenting something that they think is expensive in their mindset, they're going to project that to the patients and create uncertainty.

Speaker A: As Craig says, people believe what you feel, and if you feel it's expensive, then it's going to. They're going to feel that they're going to pick up on that. Like, what do you mean?

Speaker C: Huh?

Speaker A: Maybe not a good value. Love that. Um, Chris, are we going to get many, many certifications at the end of your. As your maybe.

Speaker C: Yeah. I'll be happy to give a certificate to, to anybody who perfect the certificate

Speaker A: of participation from the Chris Phelps, how to get your patients to say yes.

Speaker B: It sounds like the Carvana experience to Cialdini's principles. There we go.

Speaker C: There we go.

Speaker B: Uh, Dr. Phelps, thank you so much. It was lovely to have you here. We're excited to have you at the summit because.

Speaker A: Is this on the workshop day? Because I want to make sure that I'm, Uh, Ian.

Speaker B: Yes. This is on the Saturday at the main event. You will.

Speaker A: You will be there.

Speaker B: Pete. You will be there.

Speaker C: Perfect.

Speaker A: Uh, hey, Chris. I will be front row taking notes, but that was awesome. And we'll see you in Scottsdale. That was awesome. Thanks. Thanks, Chris.

Speaker B: Thank you so much, Chris.

Speaker A: Thanks, everyone, for watching today's episode of the Bulletproof Dental practice Pod. We hope this conversation brought you a tremendous amount of perspective and reminded you of why you love dentistry. If you enjoyed this video, make sure to smash that, like, button, drop us a comment and make sure to subscribe so you never miss a future episode. Additionally, it would really help us if you could send this message to someone that you think would enjoy it. Until next time, keep pushing forward, keep leading boldly, and most importantly, stay bulletproof.