AI in schools - Interview w/ Tory Thompson

Speaker A: I don't think technology is going to replace teachers. Uh, and I don't think it should. I think the problem is going to be teachers that don't use it. So technology in the hand of good teachers is transformative. No, technology, which there are people. I mean, think about it. I would never hire someone that types on a typewriter or uses like a slide. Those. Those are outdated. Right. And so you're going to get teachers that are outdated. You're going to get education that is outdated. Building Great experiences revolutionize your Building great experiences innovative strategies. Building great experiences elevate for your customers. Like, comment and subscribe.

Speaker B: Hey folks, welcome to another episode of the Building Great Experiences podcast. Super excited about this one. I've got Tori Thompson with me, who is the head of school at Elysium Innovation School or School of Innovation. Pardon me. Super excited because, uh, she and I have talked a lot over the last few months around what does education look like in the age of AI? My daughter actually goes to the school, which is how we kind of got connected. I'm an advisor, and so, you know, as a parent, it's something I think about often. Like, how do I equip my kids to be ready for what's coming? How do I prepare them for the kind of crazy world we live in? So, anyways, Tori, welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Speaker B: Should be good. Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm Tori Thompson. I lead Elysium, uh, School of Innovation in Huntersville, North Carolina. We are a private micro school, but also, uh, hybrid. So what that kind of means is we have very small class sizes. We have like a 10 to 1 ratio with our staff to student ratio. And I feel like that really gives kids intentional learning experiences. We are hybrid in the fact that we meet three days a week. So two of those days are in school, like a, uh, traditional, two are remote. So students are working from home. And then a, uh, third day is, I guess the best way you could describe it as like a field trip day, but we call them field experiences because it's not like, supposed to be. They are entertaining, but they're, they're educational as well. So field experience days, and those are usually on Friday. So your daughter is, uh, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday student, and then on Monday and Wednesday she's working remotely. And we use technology on those remote days to help amplify, um, the velocity of what students are doing. And it just works so well because they are getting to spend time with their family, they're getting time to sleep, uh, time to do their extracurriculars. They're still getting an in depth education. And one of the ways that we do that is through utilizing different technological tools to amplify where they're at. Um, so they're not just learning, they're learning specific to them and at their level. So that adaptation really fuels so much growth. So they can go to school, like be in school in a classroom less and still actually excel at an even further pace than their peers that are there 30 hours a week.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to dig in because obviously you and I have talked a lot and I think I've, I've mentioned the school to some of friends, colleagues, coworkers, and everyone's always curious. I was like, what? That's in micro school? What does that mean? So why don't you tell us a little bit about like how you started and like how you got into this in the first place.

Speaker A: Well, before, you know, pre. Kids. So PK. No, I'm just kidding. I know. Uh, before I had my, my children, I have four, I have four kids, I was a teacher, uh, and I owned a tutoring company in Massachusetts that specialized in like college prep. So sat act had a couple employees and you know, had a day job as well, teaching. So I started with, I guess my very first educational experience teaching was first generation college bound middle school students. And then I worked as an instructional assistant in um, like a sped classroom. So I was in all middle school core classes, taking notes, making sure kids were ah, on task. And then we'd go to the classroom and I'd work with them, uh, which fed into tutoring a lot. And then at the end of my career, uh, before the kids, I, I had a mainstream history. I was, I taught uh, 8th grade US history in Massachusetts. And so all of those things, I, I really love school. I really love learning. I think it can amplify somebody's life beautifully. And that uh, just being in a classroom talking, having those discussions is just the most beautiful thing in the world to me. It like lights me up. So then I had my kids and I have, like I said, I have four of them. And we were moving around for my husband's job. And so I, I did a little bit of tutoring at the beginning of that, but uh, I really wanted to buckle down and focus on the kids. They are my why, for everything that I do. And so I was. When my oldest was starting kindergarten, Covid hit. And then I was also pregnant with my fourth child. And so Covid scared me. And we didn't really know, you know, how things were going to play out. We didn't know how it would affect the fetus. We didn't know. We, we just didn't know. And so I ended up homeschooling him. I was like, I was a teacher. I can do this worst thing. It was so hard. I feel like I uh, I was like, I messed up my child. I am so in love with many people that can do that and I'm so proud of them. But I need structure. I need somebody that has been trained in this and I need somebody, I need deadlines. I just, that's just how I work. Right. I'm very much like that. And just, it was hard for me. It was hard for my kids too. And so when we got uh, Logan back in, Logan back into school, he was struggling obviously. Cuz I hadn't, I wasn't, I didn't know what I didn't know. And, and my baby, you know, my fourth was fine and everything, you know, things got back to normal. But what I noticed is he was struggling even kind of in kindergarten. And I'm like, he's one of the brightest kids I've ever known. I'm like, why is he struggling in kindergarten? I'm getting all these worksheets half done. And I remember volunteering pre Covid. So the first half of kindergarten and they have all these little modules and they every 5, 10 minutes they'd switch to the different table or to the different reading nook or whatever. And you know, he's social like I am. Um, and then it would take him a bit to refocus and so he'd finally do three or four of the ten problems and then it was time to move on. And there wasn't a teacher at any of these. The teacher was at the like main table for reading. And so it was volunteers that were coming to try and help keep these kids on task. And what I realized is he was only getting like 30 or 40%. It wasn't his cognitive capability. It was the way it was structured. The architecture of it was not conducive to real learning. It was like check a task, like can you memorize this? Can you um, regurgitate this? And. And he is a deep thinker. I mean before he ever started school, he was watching, you know, science videos with his great grandpa and could tell you all about space. And he just a very, very bright kid. And so for him to struggle in school and kindergarten too, I was just going, what's going on? So I was Like, I will teach him. And then that's when, you know, I was homeschooling him. I was noticing. I was like, this is not the way to teach this child. And. But I had four kids now, so I needed him in school, and I. I put him in school, and I, uh. He did okay. It's one of the top schools in the state, and we were moving here from Massachusetts, and I called around to see what was the best school. And that is a charter school. But you can get your kids into a charter school if you can get a job. And with my past experience in education and everything, they hired me. And, uh, it just wasn't a good fit. It was very small classroom, very large class size. His teacher was new. I was like, logan, do you like school? And he was like, well, you know, when you move, people do things differently. He's like, I think that's what it is. And I was just like, oh, okay. And I was like, well, tell me more. And he's like, well, I'm a little afraid to fill up my water bottle. And I was just like, what is going on? We don't do afraid. Like, you should never be afraid in school. He just had a very strict teacher, like, single file line. Look at the person behind you. Had zero talking. And for a young boy and fourth grade at the time, like, that is. That is a very hard thing for anybody to do. I'm like, we're not in the military. I. I love structure. I love structure. But. And. And when you have a class that size, it's very, very difficult. So I don't blame the teacher by any means, but it just wasn't working. But that's how I met Andy. Andy is my current executive director. She, uh, worked for CSD for 22 years, and she actually started what's called the Ripple program. And Ripple started during COVID and that is a hybrid program as well. It's a, uh, half day, two days a week. So kids are getting about six hours in school a week, but they are thriving. And they're. And the reason, I believe, is because of the community and the intentionality. So a normal, traditional class of 24 is broken up into 12, and so 12 of them go Monday, Wednesday, and 12 of them go Tuesday, Thursday, and they have the teacher, and then they have the assistant teacher. So you're getting about a 6 to 1 ratio. And so when they're there, it's so intentional, and it's so in depth. And then the parents are given everything digitally to be able to supplement all of that. So when you have a, uh, six to one ratio and then a one to one ratio and you have this community that's building each other up, the children are thriving. And so I actually, my son Logan, he was like, mom, thank you for switching me here. It's so calm. And this was even before we got the EOG scores. So, uh, we were walking over by the yurts under the trees, and he was like, thank you for switching me here. I'm like, what, fourth grader thanks you for switching them schools? And then my husband, he was like, tori, this is the best thing you've ever done for our family. And we still had a week left of school. I. I mean, I was in labor and I was grading papers and putting out their. Their finals, and I just, you know, you can look at Finland, you can look at all of those. Oops, sorry. They do less school. They wait a little bit longer for their kids to mature and they. And they learn through play and they learn through doing. And so fourth grade, he had been failing in the traditional school in the 40s. And my husband's like, get him outta here. And we moved him over to Ripple. And by the time at the. So everybody had already loved it and said, this is the best thing. But by the end of the year, he was higher than 91% of all fourth graders in the state of North Carolina. And it clicked for him. He was able to think deeply, he was able to sit. He wasn't rushed through all the check marks. You know, they only have 45 minutes to teach this or 25 minutes, and they have to move on. And they're Moving on with 30 some odd kids, 25 other kids, you know, on a good class size. And so I don't. I mean, our teachers are incredible here in North Carolina for being able to manage that. But at a certain level, it becomes classroom management and behavior management, and it doesn't become education. And so that was kind of like, I will leave him in here. This is the best thing in the world. But fast forward a little bit to fifth grade. In October of fifth grade, we found out that we got a new head of the school and we got a new, uh, head of the board. And they were like, middle school is a whole new monster. And we are new. We want to focus on the main campus. So we like what Ripple has done, but it was for a time that is no longer occurring. And so we're not going to do this anymore. And I was just devastated. I was like, this cannot be. We went to all the meetings and we talked and uh, you know, uh, everything. Pleaded and begged for them to continue this program. And I looked all over the US. My husband works remotely. I have four kids. I was like, we will just move to this program. And it doesn't exist. It didn't exist. And my husband's like, you can do this. He's like, you, uh, believe in this so much and you have a background in education, a background in business, like your whole life is this. And I was like, eek. So. But we ended up. We ended up. It's a beautiful, beautiful program. It's a beautiful school. The kids are absolutely fantastic. And I will say it's not like any other middle school you've seen. And I think a lot of that is because of community, right? They are. We don't have any of the dis. We have had zero discipline problems. Knock on something, would. But I think it's because the parents are so involved, right? And we have parents that are present and want to be involved. And if we have an issue, we can call them. If the student is struggling in something, we can pinpoint that with technology, with teachers, with. We have like three levels, right? We have the main level, which is the instructor, we have the parents, and then we have technology. So they are getting three in depth, super defined teachers. And that's allowing them to grow at a pace that's so accelerated. I've never seen anything like it in my. My time as an educator.

Speaker B: Yeah, man, awesome story. It's funny, I've heard some of that, but I haven't heard all of it. But it's really cool to kind of hear. And also, obviously your son's progression, I

Speaker A: mean, I've always thought he was very intelligent, but I really do think, um, you know, one, I'm partial, like, let's be honest, he's mine. But two, I think it's a lot of the way in which we try to, you know, sit still, be quiet, blah, blah, blah. Like, that is not how most people learn, right? That is for an age. You know, I'm not making a drone of a child. I'm making an intellectual, creative thought provoked child. Like I. That's what we want for our kids. We don't want them to be mindless drones. We don't want them just to be able to spit out information. And he's just not that type of child. And I would argue that there is no type of child that way. We are trying to put these beautiful flowers into a box that. Where they don't grow, there's no sunlight, there's no water, there's no. You know, I just. We really have to dive deep. Uh, if you think of the things that kids do well or even what you remember, like, one of the things I remember in school is we went to like a bread baking, manufacturing a bakery. And I just, I still remember walking in and the smell of that. Right. Those experiences. So those experiential days that we have on Fridays. So they came here once. They've gone to ifly, they've gone to NASCAR M Hall of Fame, where they built cars and those problem solving times. I mean, a traditional school can't do that because they have to have a bus, they have to take everybody. The cost is. Is prohibitive. But the way we've modeled our school and because of how, you know, I do have to give North Carolina a lot of credit, that not only were they the first to do, like, dual enrollment for colleges, they have really done some beautiful things with their opportunity scholarship. So 100% of our students are on scholarship by the state, which makes it affordable to be able to go to private school. Um, because our kids were coming from a charter school and I didn't want to be a snobby private school. I went to private school and I swore I'd never have my kids go there. And now I run one. But I am intentional with the way that we run it. Right. And if a student can't afford, we also have the Elysium Educational foundation, that's a nonprofit that helps kind of make up the gap if there. If there is one. So a student should never, if they want to learn in the way that we're teaching, if they want to come to our school. Uh, we do have, like, size parameters as far as we can only admit so many per grade because we like the small class sizes. But it should never be about finances. And then the other thing Too is like 13% of all North Carolinian children are homeschooled. So the hybrid model is really a beautiful thing because you can either go to a traditional school that's jam packed. I think we're over by 4000 in Mecklenburg county for middle school seats, and another 1200 are on the way. So you can either go to the crammed school or you can be homeschooled, or you can come to something like us. That gives you. The hybrid model gives you smaller class sizes so they still get time with their family and then they still get, uh, time with their friends. So I think that for me, the homeschool piece, for me you have to find, like, either the right co op or the right people. But this actually really allows them that collaboration piece that, uh, I think would be missing on both sides. So we're just kind of like in the middle of both sides.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I think what's interesting, I appreciate you giving me the kind of the background. I'm sure everyone listening is like, loved the storytelling. I think about, like, you and I have talked about this whole idea of, like, we're entering this age of innovation. AI is transforming everything. I think what's interesting is if you think about the education system, it was designed around the Industrial Revolution. Right. Like, you know, you set up. Yeah. Here's a task, follow the rules and do it in this way. And I think it's becoming more and more evident that being a cog in the machine is actually a recipe for disaster, frankly. And I think being educated and sort of uplifted to think more creatively, think with more of an innovation mindset, and to know how to leverage the tools that we have available today. Right. Versus what they were 50, 60, 70 years ago. Right.

Speaker A: I mean, I think that's the beautiful piece is that we do have these tools. Right. Like, I was kind of, you know, I have a history background and I was looking at different things. So Socrates, he actually did not like the idea of writing. He thought that that was a cognitive offload that people would stop memorizing and people would stop writing. Uh, like, people would stop thinking and storytelling. So Plato was his student, and Plato wrote down Socrates idea. And the only reason we have his stuff is because of his student. And I think that, you know, we can all be afraid of, you know, the big bad AI, but, like, if we look at. Even in the Industrial Revolution, they were worried about electricity. When calculators came out, they were worried that we wouldn't learn arithmetic. When spellcheck came out, they were worried we wouldn't write. All of these things come with fear, right? All of these things. Historically, anything new is scary, Right. This is my first podcast. I was a little nervous, but once you do it, once it's in, once you see how it can be used in a positive manner, light, then you adapt. So it's all about adaptability, Right. They were afraid of automobiles because they thought it would get rid of the horse. Well, in some ways it did. Uh, you know, but we can go further. We're not harming an animal. You know, Spellcheck actually lets you write and be more creative because you're not having to think about every single letter all the time. And you're able actually to learn more because you see what you're doing incorrectly, right? I think, AI uh, in a lot of ways, you know, if you look back at the wealthiest of people, they had photographers and they had makeup artists and they had secretaries that would write their memos for them. Um, they had a team that they were paying. I actually think this equalizes the field a little bit where, uh, you don't have to have a team to. You don't have to even have a background in some of this stuff for a student to be able to make their idea come alive. And I think that that is beautiful. And I think, um, if they're able to use it. And I do think there need to be guardrails, right? I'm not saying, oh, just let your kid on the Internet. Never. I. We have, you know, mobile device management system on all of our devices. We blocked YouTube. There's things that you don't want kids getting into, but that doesn't mean you avoid it altogether. You use it intentionally, right? Like, you don't avoid all sugar. You try to be productive or only eat certain amounts. You don't, you know, only eat meat. Well, you might. I don't know. But you know what I'm saying. I'm trying to make an analogy here. Like, there are reasons and there is good that can be had, but there's also, you know, I want to recognize the danger. Like, I want to recognize that parents might be a little nervous. Like, we don't want our children cognitive offloading. We want it to be a cognitive amplifier. We want it to be a thought partner. We want them to be able to go further and do more. Just like, you know, imagine, had we not. Had we taken Socrates and not learned how to write, Imagine, um, where we would be in mathematics if we didn't have a calculator. You know, my uncle, he actually was a coder for. For IBM in Houston for the different launches. And he was telling me, he was showing me, he was like, we'd have them on these cards and they're like these punch cards, and we'd have sets of three, and they'd be on all these different levels. And in the building we were at, there were no windows and all of this stuff. And he's like, they don't even use that type of coding anymore. But his foundation was mathematics. He went to the University of Texas, and his degree is in mathematics. So I think we do need to focus on the foundation of education. Like, here are your foundation skills so when we use AI, we will kind of show them how to use it, and then we'll be like, let's look at all the sources. Because I think I was telling you a little bit about, uh, there was basically, they had gone through all of these articles. I'm, um, 99% sure they used AI to go through all these articles. But these higher ed PhD articles that were peer reviewed and large, large numbers of them had hallucinations, right? And a hallucination is basically made, uh, up information. So we do need to realize that a lot of our technology, especially when you're talking about like liberal arts or something like that, uh, you need to go back to the source and you need to verify the source because a lot of the information gets pulled from Reddit, a lot of the information gets pulled from Wikipedia, and all of those are user uploads. So we do need to recognize like, that there are bias still within, um, I think there are some good, you know, pros and cons to everything. But just recognizing like, hey, this might not be right, like that to me is more beautiful than anything, right? That problem solving, that in depth, uh, questioning. That's what we want to teach kids, right? Because you can find information now. It's ubiquitous. You can just go on and you can find information. But is that information true? Is that information correct? Is that information an opinion? That's what we should be teaching kids, in my opinion.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Hear, hear. No, I think so. A couple things that you said that I wanted to kind of like, you know, pull on is this idea of guardrails, right? And I've had a lot of people ask me like, well, what is, what kinds of guardrails should I put in place? Like, what does it look like to have a guardrail? Be curious. Your opinion?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it depends on the age of your children, right? I have four. And we have a special, like, router in our house, uh, that doesn't even allow certain things onto our computers. And then our computers have a certain amount of technology on them, um, that also filter out or block certain websites, certain material. And for like our school system, we, we give all the kids iPads. Uh, and originally we, we thought we had it locked down. And I've got a story and won't say the child's name, but I'm very proud of this child and also very, like, excited to see where he goes. So, uh, we had the iPads. I thought we locked them down really well. Each iPad has the student's name on it. Somehow this student Figured out they wanted to download Roblox, right? And we blocked that. He figured uh, out a way to change his internal password to allow him to download. We've changed it since then, so we fixed the problem. But allow him to download. But what he didn't realize, like he didn't have a credit card. My credit card was on file. And so when I got the bill, it said student name like purchased for this iPad. And so I had to call the mom and I had to like explain what had happened and that our system didn't, uh, somehow he hacked it. Right? But I'm so proud of him at the same time. And I was like, oh, this is a very hard, you know, And I don't know, like he didn't know that my card, I, ah, don't think he processed that he was purchased. I don't know. But the fact that he can do that, one should scare us in a good way. In a good way, scare us. But two, like, we just have to adapt. Like we had to purchase a higher security system and someone's going to hack that at some point. Like I remember uh, Eli, he's in your son's younger class. He was in third grade. I coded a very rudimentary spelling program for him. I wanted him to, you know, practice his spelling words. He likes video games, so you know, win, win. He didn't want to practice his spelling words. And his second grade bare book project was all about coding. And he can code like he watched a whole bunch of videos on it. Um, we bought him bitsbox which teaches them coding. He coded his Valentine card for his second grade teacher. He is very advanced in, in that realm. And he didn't want to do his spelling words. And so he hacked the game. I made him. And I was just like, I was so mad. I went to Adam, that's my husband, and I was like, he didn't study. He hacked this game. I was like livid. I was like, he's got a quiz. And my husband's like, calm down, first of all, okay, don't ever tell me to do that. But that's okay. No, he didn't do that. Uh, he was just like, but Tori, what's more important, that he learns how to spell these words for third grade or that he can hack and get into a video game at third grade? And I was like, I don't like that you have a point. I don't like that you have a point. But that's true. I mean some of these skills that we are afraid of are actually gonna be the skills that propel them in real life. Like he has spellcheck. I mean again, maybe that's the argument. Well you shouldn't have spellcheck, but he doesn't have spellcheck in second grade. But the fact that he can hack that, I mean and he was in IXL the other day and he went to the back end of it and was looking at their code and I'm like, he has one, he has time to explore the things that interest him. And two, those are skills that I have not taught him. He has self taught himself. And uh, because of technology they can dive deeper, it's available to them. So I would say the biggest guardrails are so like the biggest bumpers. If you were to put a bowling analogy to it, I would say you're probably your mobile device management system, which is what we have in place at the school, your actual router at home. And then on the devices you can put uh, like iPad or, or computer Chromebook, you can put their age and it'll do it as well. So I think if you have those three things in place, you can, you won't be able to prevent, but you can circumvent some of the stuff that you don't want them to, to be getting on. And I, I would say too when you are uh, putting like we actually have taken off some AI tools from the devices, but I don't know if you've ever been on it and you've asked a question like oh, what is that? Then it puts a warning sign like this is not appropriate. So they do have some within them. I wouldn't trust those implicitly. I would, I would do the other things as well. But that's kind of what we've been doing as a tech heavy family to try and protect our children from the world because really and truly like you are opening them up to the entire world. So put the guardrails there, put the protections there and then know that you've done all that you can. But then you also have to teach literacy. Right? Like you have to teach technological literacy. So what do you do when this happens? Or um, how might you. I uh, think a big thing would be trust as well. Right. Like if you have a good enough relationship with your child, if your teachers have a good enough relationship with their students. Like I remember when we uh, were going through the change in our mobile device management system, sorry, one of the students, we had this like meditation app to help because we're really big on like who they are how they're feeling, their mental health. Because that to me is if we're taking care of that, then education can come. But middle school is one of those times where there's a lot of changes. So we really, we put this app on and it asked like, how are you feeling? And she, they selected something and then it asked, um, an inappropriate question. I don't even wanna say on your podcast. We took that off, right? Like, we ended up deleting that app because it presented itself as a child app and we had gone through and used it and. But some of the things that other people think are appropriate for children I don't think are appropriate for children. And as a private school, I get to make that call. And then as your, as a parent, you get to make that call too. So if you ever saw something on your child's iPad or something that we did, um, we would delete it if you asked us to. We, we, we are not a religious school and we don't really cover sex ed or any of that. We really focus on allowing parents to have those conversations like you, like we are here to support you, not the other way around, right? Like that this is your child and we are here to educate them to be a critical thinker and a problem solver. So we are going to give them information. But we, we don't hit some of the topics that a, uh, public school would or that would be considered like topics. You know what I mean? We just don't have to do that. I don't know what else to say. But, but, but yeah, we really want, we want to. Childhood, once it's gone, it's gone. And so we really want to protect these kids and allow them to be kids. And I think that's one of the best things about a hybrid model as well is yes, we do in depth learning, but they get to be a child as well and they get to have family time because once they're out of like, once that's gone, it's gone, right? I've never met a single mom or parent that has said, oh, I spent too much time with my child. They all wish they could go back and spend more time with their child. So this allows them to do it. But we also, because of the technology, can track and make sure we're hitting every single state, national standard and then we can build on that. So we do an interdisciplinary, um, model so that our project based learning complements all of that. And so I know for a fact how long your daughter has been on this math problem. What she's missing. And I can adapt her homework in real time, and I can basically give her a digital math tutor that will show her what she's done wrong so she's not spending time on. On something that she already knows. Like, because I have to check a box. I mean, I do. I, uh. We check the other thing that we do too. People are always like, oh, well, maybe you're spending too much time on, you know, monitoring what they're doing. Well, the thing is, we're not because of technology, but two, we're able to do more mentoring. The teacher's able to talk more and, like, help them develop more because they're not worried about grading. Uh, we also don't grade grade. We do progress over perfection. So the reason is if we give a child a grade, they're going for that grade instead of that standard. And so if we are adapting their curriculum to where they're at. If a child. Like, we have kids that are in sixth grade that are in high school math, and we got a couple kids that are, you know, in fourth grade math, but they. We can adapt it to where they are. So you're not feeling like you're failing when you're still progressing, and you're not stopping because you've already made an A. Right? And so, uh, when you get rid of those, those kind of barriers. So I would say guardrails versus barriers. I think education system has barriers where students are stuck trying to achieve. So, I mean, they're not a fruit or a vegetable. Like, we do not need to grade them. We need them to progress and so they can progress further faster without feeling like, oh, man, you know, I just bombed that. No, like, you are working through it. The growth mindset, right? Like, you had a problem. Like, you're not giving up. That's my biggest thing for these kids. Like, and like I said, we just. I. I see all their scores. Like, they are phenomenally. I mean, in three months, the first three months of school being open, we did assessment, and then we did one right before the Thanksgiving break. So August to early November, and every single kid. So 10 points is about a month. So a hundred points would be a whole school year. We had kids at, uh, 140, 90, 80. Like, they were progressing at, like, 1.5 times as fast as. I mean, it's unbelievable. And so I think we need to look at. Is it a cognitive amplifier with bumpers instead of something to fear for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah, man, it's good. I was thinking about a couple things you said that Were kind of got my brain going, which was there's like the technology bumpers, as you put it. Then there's also the. You said something else that was kind of like equipping your child on knowing how to think about the tools, which I think is also. It's something I think a lot about. M. Like, how do I equip my child, my children, to be able to, like, think and process in a way that helps them use the tools effectively, but also, um, did not become over reliant on tools. Right. Like the critical thinking stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, like, so I, like, I'll share an example. I. Something I didn't really learn much about when I was a kid was like, financial literacy. It wasn't really something I was kind of given. And so only in the last probably like 15, 20 years have I started to really be like, what is this? Like, how do I invest? And these kinds of things. So I made a purposeful effort to, like, teach my kids about, like, how to think about finances. Like, how do you. Like, this is just one example. So my daughter, she has this lemonade stand she does every summer, like when it gets warm outside.

Speaker A: She also has a scrub business. Yeah. Ah, she's got a couple businesses.

Speaker B: She's got a couple little things.

Speaker A: I love it. Yeah, we do at school. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, like, she, uh, had made some money and I think she had maybe, I don't know, saved up, uh, 250 bucks or something. And I was like, well, hey, you know, you could take some of that money and you could actually invest it and that money will make money for you. And she was like. And this is probably, I don't know, nine months ago or so. And she was like, what do you mean? Tell me, how does that work? And I was like, well, let me. So I'm basically, like, started to invest time and energy to think. Help her think about how do you invest.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Now she's using technology tools to help her make those kinds of decisions. Right. But, like, it's the first step of, like, thinking critically around, like, you know, I'm using money as an example. There's other topics and other things.

Speaker A: It's like, well, no, let's use money. Isn't. I love money. I mean, everybody needs money. Our whole purpose in our school, like, what is the purpose of an education? It's to get you a job. Right. It's to get you to be able to provide for your family. It's not necessarily to get you to college, but that is one of our Goals, Right. And so I'll use an AI example. My son, over the summer, he was wanting to invest, and, uh, he's in the same grade and as your daughter, they're friends. He was using, you know, not the best typer yet. Sixth grade, he was using. I forget Google's basically Gemini. He was using Gemini. And he was talking back and forth on his Chromebook. He was researching mutual funds and what the best mutual fund was. Uh, because my husband was like, if you can tell me why and what you want to invest in, you can take your money and put it in there. So he had to go back and forth and use that. Yeah, it was really, really great. And actually we were just on the way to pitch breakfast this past Wednesday, and he and the two Logans, uh, they were talking about dividends and mutual funds. And we're about to do a whole thing on, like a virtual stock exchange type thing which integrates math and innovation. Anyway, it integrates a lot of things. Interdisciplinary, right? So I was like, why don't you guys teach a lesson? And so they were having to go and research what they would teach. And I always think, just as an individual, if they are able, like, what better way to test, uh, actually remind me to get back to testing. But what better way to see if somebody knows something, if they're able to teach someone, right? And so we do. I do think that that's important. I also remember, you know, growing up, oh, until you have 20%. You can't buy a house until you have 20%. Well, okay, I believed that until I found out you could have 3.5 or 5% or get all these different types of loans, which, you know, may or may not be good. We won't go on to that. Knowing and having the resource, I think is the biggest difference in an education is the, the. The resources are available to these kids and they're easy to use. They are able to talk with it. They don't have to type it. It makes it to where accessibility is. Is less of it. There's less of a hindrance. It used to be you had to go to college for finance to learn about all of these mutual funds, about all these dividends. And now, you know, you can go on greenlight, you can go on, um, I think we have a Chase card for them. There's different things that you can set up in their name as an adult because they technically can't buy some stuff still, but that's okay. Getting m to the real crux of it. The point is, for them to learn how to work, to learn how to budget, to learn how to do these life skills. Because I've met college students that don't know how to make a breakfast. My kids wake up in the morning, they go downstairs, they get their griddle, they crack their eggs and they make their breakfast. At least they have that right. I have one chore that each of them does every single day, no matter what. Like Eli has to take out the dishes, Logan has to put them in, Charlie has to do little mop back thing. And then Lily, she's only five, so she gets the little vacuum and does that every once in a while. But every day those are their one task. Obviously I make them do more, but I think we have bubble wrapped our children to a certain extent where they're not learning and they're not being challenged. And so let's go back to the test piece though. I did want to talk about that because I know a lot of people are saying, oh, AI and technology create cheaters or the cognitive offload. Because I think that's also what you mentioned. The way in which we test needs to change. Right? There has always been cheating. I remember talking to a lady, her daughter got into a very prestigious school and works for NASA and she was like the valedictorian in most schools is really just the best cheater. Not, not my words, but that's funny. It's terrible. But the thing is, the smartest people are not always the people that are getting the grade. Right? And if you take that grade piece away, I mean, obviously we'll have to do something a little different in high school because that's needed for transcripts. But, but if you take away that piece, like the smartest people are the people that are problem solvers, the people that have a problem and figure out a way to make it work. My little boy that didn't want, he had a problem. His, his mom wanted him to do spelling and he couldn't play his video games until he got a certain score. On this game. He had a problem and he solved it wasn't the way I wanted him to, but I think that that's the biggest thing is we want them to be problem solvers. So how do you test when technology is so abundant? Well, one, we do map testing, which is standardized. We do it three times a year. Make sure, you know, we do at the beginning, middle and end, making sure that all the things that we're doing are appropriate and that they're progressing. When they take that test, it locks everything else out and they're doing it in class now. The other way to test is not to do paper, not to do all of that, because also, that creates a lot of work for the teacher. But have them present it. You know, we talk about Socrates and him. Not like, right. Not. They're Socratic discussions where they have to explain their thought process, how they did it. I know you're going to use AI I want you now to tell me how you did it and, like, the questions you asked and where it took you. What rabbit hole did you go down again with bumpers? I'm not going to punish you. I. I'm not going to punish that student for figuring out a way to solve their problem. Like that is beyond me. Praise that student. The best innovators, the best business owners. I mean, I feel like I'm playing whack mole right now. We're trying to build our building in Huntersville, and it's like one thing after another after another, and I'm just whack a mole. Bam, bam, bam. Because I can't ask them to do something I'm not willing to do myself, right? And the biggest thing that I would say is finding the right resource, right? How do you differentiate the different resources? Like, how am I? And I think one of the things I love is our students know how to email people, right? They have their own emails. They are emailing people. They're asking questions. It might be terrible grammar. Um, but then that's also something to go back on. How do we make this better? How? Where are your commas? Where are all of that? But as an adult, I have rarely been able to write a. Like, asked to. I've never actually, as an adult, been asked to write a book report. I've been asked to write a business plan. So we ask students to do that. We ask them to do real life skills, because they're gonna be in real life in a blink of an eye. But at the same time, they're getting that time with family as well. Because I like my kids. I want them with me. I want the chance to raise them. I remember, uh, when I did have them in full day school, Eli, the same one that hacked, he would get off the bus and he would just melt down. And I would go to his teachers and I'd be like, is he behaving in class? And they're like, oh, he's the best. And I was getting the leftovers of my child, and I was like, this isn't motherhood. Like, this is their one childhood, and this is my One motherhood. This is my one chance to get to love them unconditionally, to get to watch them grow. I don't want to give that to someone else. And so I really just, I'm so grateful for technology because I can know that not only are they getting what they need, that they're actually outperforming. I mean, even from Ripple, I get all the kids scores and I can see like, here's the state, here's csd, and here are our kids. Like, they are outperforming. And that might also be one of the reasons they decided not to continue. Like, how embarrassing is that? Like, that these kids, because I know when I worked there for the brief time that I did, they were kind of like Ripples, the redheaded stepchild, right? Like, oh, these kids aren't going to school, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. These kids are outperforming the kids that are going 30 hours a week. And I will say I, I think it's the intentionality, I think it's the community, the smaller class sizes. And I will say, I think it's the technology.

Speaker B: Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that there's. So you, you use the word micro school at the beginning of this. What I'm super fascinated about, like zooming out a little bit and thinking more macro. Like it'll be interesting to see the world, how the world adapts to the technology and how quickly people adjust to more things like micro schools. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. I think the problem could be. So I don't think technology is going to replace teachers. Uh, and I don't think it should. I think the problem is going to be teachers that don't use it. So technology in the hands of good teachers is transformative. No, technology, which there are people. I mean, think about it. I would never hire someone that types on a typewriter or uses like a slide. Those are outdated. Right. And so you're going to get teachers that are outdated. You're going to get education that is outdated. They are still brilliant people. They are still, you know, very capable. But I put my uncle who worked, you know, on the, the very first, actually every single flight that went into space, uh, until the 70s, like he worked on that, but I couldn't. He, he doesn't know how to do the things. However, he knows how to ask those questions. He could learn it really fast, especially with the way in which you don't have to code, you have to be able to be the architect. And I think that that's what we're going to See, schools change in ways that if they're being a good architect, right? I remember when PowerPoint came out and I was teaching and there were teachers. I don't want to use PowerPoint, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh my heck, what are we going to do? You need to be able to evolve, right? So just like the dot coms didn't like ruin the world like they thought, uh, it transformed. Just like the apps didn't ruin the world, it transformed. That's going to be the age of innovation. That's going to be AI. It's not going to ruin every job, but it's going to make some obsolete or it's going to outdate you. And so either you get on board or you're going to be obsolete. Right? I'm not saying that I don't think it's going to get rid. I think it's going to get rid of like dangerous jobs like washing the windows. There's those robots now that, oh, what's the name of it? Lucid bots that they, I'm like, they are, that's, that's a human problem that they are solving. And, and every time we enter into a conversation at school, it's like, what is the problem and how are you going to fix it? So that's the same thing. Like, what was the problem? The problem was large class sizes. What was the problem with private school? It costs too much. What was the problem with, uh, homeschooling? You didn't get friends or you might be missing something, or you might not be going fast enough. What is the problem and how are you going to solve it? So my goal with the micro school is we don't want to be 500, 800 kids. We want to be, you know, 6th through 12th, like 2:40 max. If we'll win. We've already got a wait list. But if and when that we will open up another and another. And because, I mean, I remember this mom telling me, like this school in Mecklenburg was, was giving out popsicles at the end of the school year, uh, like as a great yay party. And they were putting big X's. Like she, uh, her son came home with a big X on his arm and she's like, what is this on your arm in permanent marker? $1. Don't, don't do that to my kid. But they didn't know the kids enough to know if the kids were coming back for a second popsicle, second ice cream. And that is not the education system. Like when you are Intentional when kids feel cared about, seen, heard. The other thing is, I think it's like 30 seconds a kid in a traditional classroom gets of their questions answered. I will guarantee you as many questions as your child wants to answer, they will get the opportunity to ask and, and be heard and are, uh, just. It's the architecture of the school and I think that that needs to change. So I do see hybrid schools, hybrid micro schools. I, uh. But it has to be intentional and it has to be structured correctly or it could be catastrophic. There are some, some schools that haven't done it right. I've seen that as well. And so, I mean, you, you have to interview you. I mean it's just like you would interview anybody else. And, and you have to. I think the reason our community is so close is everybody has my cell phone number. Everybody has all the teachers cell phone numbers. If you have a question or a concern, like if you need a ride for your kid, you go on our app and you. And you coordinate that like we. It takes a village and you get that. With our school in such a, like a metropolis, if you will, or the metro area of Charlotte, I feel like we have, you know, very much a small suite community. I mean, what's the Andy Griffiths show that everybody's looking for? Uh, Mayberry. Right. I feel like we have our own Mayberry through this program because it doesn't make the area seem so big. It doesn't make middle school seem so daunting. Like the kids email me when we don't have school. Like today. Uh, well, today's a holiday, but tomorrow's a teacher work day and I've gotten multiple kids upset with me that we don't have school tomorrow. Why do we have to follow that schedule? Why? You know, because we follow another schedule because that's our feeder school. But anyway, you don't need my life story.

Speaker B: But no, no, Tori, it was a great conversation. Yeah, I appreciate you going. And I obviously like a couple things I'll I took away from this conversation is one I feel like we all parents and educators and humanity should be really thinking seriously about the guardrails that we're putting in place. I think the other thing that I took away was just that already starting to do this. But even more intentionality around teaching kids how to like, ask good questions and think from m. A problem solving standpoint is a really good one. Also, like, there's a few things you said that I hadn't really thought about, but like putting like router guardrails et CETERA protections in place. From a tech standpoint, it makes tons of sense. And then I think I, I love the idea or just general thought of like architecting, like we need to re architect the way that we do school. I think that there's a pretty big opportunity there, but to kind of round us out. Where can folks find you in the school? Online?

Speaker A: Okay, so Elysium is kind of a hard word, but think like Elysian Fields. So E L Y s I u s school.org so Elysiumschool.org uh, you can find me Tori with a Y Tory Thompson on LinkedIn. Uh, you can find us on Instagram @ElysiumSchools. You can find us on Facebook at Elysium School. You can just do a quick search of private micro schools. Age of Innovation is very much our theme and something I'm trying to get to be used more, more colloquially and broadly because I think it's not just about technology in our schools, it's about project based learning in our schools. It's about intentionality, it's about entrepreneurship, it's about financial literacy. All of those things to me aren't A.I. uh, they're age of Innovation. Those things are innovative in that they're things that we didn't learn that we wish we would have. Right. Anything that you got to be an adult and were like, why was I not taught this? Are the things that we are going back and designing our curriculum for. Because if you've gone through all of these years plus college and you're just now finding out about, you know, stocks or bonds or I remember when I found out about cash out refinancing and just different things like that, I'm like, that should have been stuff I had learned in school. Like I feel like I'm a fairly educated person and there were so many gaps. And that's what I think technology can do. Help us find the gaps in, in, in student learning and uh, and amplify everything. So I think, I don't think it's something to be feared. I think it's something that needs to be structured. I think it's something that we need to look at deeply. But the acceleration at which it can move our society is beautiful. The equity that it can bring students. Right? If you are learning, if you're neurodivergent in some way, how can we teach to make that uh, where it makes sense to you? And teachers can honestly differentiate every single student curriculum in, in real time and that's not available in any other way. And that allows them to make meaningful, impactful relationships with their students instead of grading papers or instead of, you know, going on to teachers, pay teachers. But here's the other thing too is like most teachers like you do your first, you know, one to three years, you've got your curriculum set and then they're not changing it. I think the adaptability is really one of the things. I think that this is a beautiful thing for our educators. I think teachers get the shaft so often as, oh, why didn't this teacher do that? Or why didn't. Holy smokes, do you know what they have to do in the background of everything? Like, get those people a really nice teacher appreciation gift. Like, they are phenomenal human beings. And as an administrator, we need to be giving them the tools that they need to succeed, not harboring on them. They, their biggest thing for an educator is, is the relationship they have with their student because that student will do anything if they know that their teacher cares about them.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I just, I guess my biggest plug would be to, to look at what guardrails, what bumpers you have to protect your child. Again, not against technology. I'm not against it at all. But to protect their childhood and allow them to use these tools. I would also say, you know, try and spend as much quality time with your kid. Uh, we do a ton of stuff outdoors. I really, you know, as much as I like technology, we have a two hour limit. Like if you've been on your iPad for two hours a day, like, stop, stop doing homework, stop doing any of it. It should not take you more than 20 minutes to finish a sub. Maybe more for math, but you shouldn't be on it for more than two hours. Go outside, go get real world experience. Go meet someone, uh, remember their name, write down their name, come back and tell me, like, that's, that's what's really like the humanity piece and the authenticity piece. Like, I don't think technology's gonna take that away. I've seen how people can misinterpret it, but it's really an amplifier. A child can go and ask back and forth with AI. Well, what about this? Am I missing anything? What about this? I mean, I even did it before I came to talk to you. Well, what about this? What am I missing? What are people's concerns? I obviously don't know if I've hit everything, but I think that conversation, you know, you can really become a better human being having a conversation with something that has all the resources available to it. I would, I would encourage you to use AI Uh, I would encourage you to use technology, but I would also encourage you just to, you know, go on a hike, go rock climbing, go whitewater rafting, and just, you know, mountain biking. Whatever you do, be outdoors, be outside. Put a time limit on things.

Speaker B: Yeah. Good stuff.

Speaker A: Well, because life has a time limit, right? Like, childhood has a time limit. Yeah. Like, I don't want everybody stuck behind a screen. But I think that's one of the beautiful things. It can. It can really make tasks go faster. I was. There was somebody that was like, I had 700 reports I needed to read, and I needed to section them off, and I ran them through AI and it took an hour, and it would have taken us, you know, 500 hours. So we don't need to think of it like that. Like. Like, uh, on tasks. On, like, rudimentary tasks. Like, if you're an Excel person and that's all you do for a job, I'd be worried. But, like, if you're a person person, like, if you talk to people, if you are a salesperson or anything, it's just gonna amplify your job. It's just gonna make it a little bit easier.

Speaker B: Agreed. So, cool.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Well, thank you for being on the show. Awesome conversation.

Speaker A: Uh, hopefully it, uh, helps someone with something.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. Um, and, folks, for those who are listening, uh, you can find me online. Drew Burdick.com and Drew Burdick on LinkedIn and all social channels. Thanks again. Yeah, awesome.

Speaker A: Like, comment and subscribe.