Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief · 2025-09-24 · 60 min
Julie Thurlow's path to leading Reading Cooperative Bank - a member-owned cooperative with over a century of history - illustrates how early experiences shape long-term leadership philosophy. Growing up in Lubeck, Maine with limited economic opportunity but boundless freedom, Thurlow developed values of self-reliance and community that persist in her banking career. She initially pursued a music scholarship to college but discovered banking offered the intellectual satisfaction she sought. Her early mentors, particularly CFO Jim Coulter who redirected her toward lending, set the tone for a career focused on relationship-driven commercial banking and small business development. The pivotal moment came during the New England banking crisis in the early 1990s, when Thurlow elected to work at the FDIC's Office of Liquidation rather than face her own bank's failure. This trial-by-fire experience closing multiple Massachusetts banks weekly built her crisis management capabilities and deep empathy for stakeholders affected by institutional collapse. Today at Reading Cooperative Bank, she applies these hard-won lessons to balance profitability with community impact, treating stakeholder governance as an expression of the virtuous cycle banking creates - enabling entrepreneurs, multiplying capital, and generating family wealth and opportunity across communities.
Hosted by ZSuite Tech. The show scores 62.0/100 on substance across its analysed episodes. See the full show profile.
Clarify your 'why' first - whether you're seeking exploratory exposure and foundation or pursuing intentional skill development for a specific role you want. Educational medium matters less than understanding how it connects to your goals and career trajectory.
She earned a music scholarship to college but discovered that school budgets were being cut post-graduation and teaching wasn't appealing; banking emerged as the alternative career path, where she found the rhythm and mathematics of finance rewarding.
She worked at the FDIC's Office of Liquidation closing failed banks in Massachusetts during the early 1990s, often learning on Thursday whether she'd be on a closing team arriving Friday to shut down a failing institution.
Reading Cooperative Bank is owned collectively by its account holders who have a say in long-term planning, embodying stakeholder theory of management that balances profit with people and community impact.
They serve complementary roles in a healthy banking system - large banks handle major corporate deals while community banks provide personalized service and meet hyperlocal customer needs that large institutions cannot replicate.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Welcome to episode twenty-three of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief! Joining me today is Julieann (Julie) Thurlow, President and CEO of Reading Cooperative Bank. On this show, I'm unpacking the stories, decisions, and influences that make people successful leaders. Growing up in the tiny seaside town of Lubec, Maine, Julie Thurlow quickly learned independence and reliance on family values. It was an idyllic upbringing for a child, but held scarce opportunities for a smart young woman eager to make a career. Despite her college scholarship for music, Julie eventually found her way to banking My name is Nathan Baumeister; I am the Co-founder of ZSuite Tech and the host of this podcast. Her time playing music was formative for her work as a leader, giving her an understanding of when to stand in the spotlight and when to step back and let the band or someone else play. Many bankers find themselves forced to work at the FDIC as a result of working at a failed bank and being taken over by the FDIC. Julie voluntarily left her first banking job and took a role at the FDIC during the New England Banking Crisis of the 1990s.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Shortly after I started in banking, um, the New England banking crisis happened. And I probably was one of the few bankers that actually elected to go to the FDIC because um, there were um, very few other opportunities at the time rather than ending up there because my bank failed, um, and so I ended up working um, at the FDIC's Office of Liquidation, um, during the years when we were closing banks in Massachusetts. And um, I don't even remember the sheer number. It was every weekend one or two bank was, banks were failing and um, at that time, um, you wouldn't know until Thursday whether or not you were on the closing group. Um, and on Friday you'd actually end up arriving at a bank that was closing.
Speaker B: Hi, my name is Nathan Baumeister and
Speaker C: you're listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker Chief, a podcast where executives from the world of finance and technology share the story of how they got where they are and the decisions that made them who they are. I'm looking for hidden moments of truth and sacrifice, wisdom and folly, and what it's like to navigate the treacherous waters
Speaker B: at the helm of a growing company. I want to do all that so that together we can learn from their
Speaker C: journey and use that insight personally and professionally. In episode 23, my guest is Julie Thurlow, President and CEO of Reading Cooperative Bank, a Massachusetts institution that has been collectively owned by its account holders for more than a century. Growing up in a small seaside town in Maine, Julie learned the importance of self reliance and integrity to her family's values. The neighborhood was idyllic for a child, but lacked opportunity for anyone with high career ambitions. Julie left home with the college scholarship for music and and eventually found her way to banking as an alternative to teaching. As with so many leaders, it was Julie's encounter with specific mentors who helped her discover her zone of genius and pursue greater challenges and responsibility. During the New England banking crisis in the early 1990s, Julie took a job with the FDIC helping restabilize failed banks. The experience was a trial by fire that forged Julie's ability to execute on high level strategy and and to empathize with the employees and account holders who were devastated by the collapsing banks. Today, as President and CEO of Reading Cooperative Bank, Julie leads an institution that exemplifies the stakeholder theory of management in business where each customer of the bank has a say in the long term plan, equal parts profit and people. This requires a careful balance of perspectives, fully embracing the individual dramas of human experience and rising above them to cast a vision that will benefit the larger Community. It's my pleasure to bring you episode 23 of Builder Banker Hacker Chief so that you can join Julie Thurlow on the balcony of leadership, where she reminds all of us that humility and sacrifice are the hallmarks of true leadership, not public accolades or the spotlight.
Speaker B: Julie, I can't tell you how excited I am to have you, uh, on Builder Banker Hacker Chief. Thanks for joining.
Speaker A: Thanks for having me.
Speaker B: You know, I, uh, I still remember the first time I met you. It was right before COVID I went into reading co ops, uh, corporate offices, and it was the first time I have walked into a bank's office and thought, is this a bank or is this a tech company? And, uh, you know, from there on out, that set the. Set the tone for all of my interactions with you. And I've just so much enjoyed getting to know you over the years and watching all the great things that you do in our space.
Speaker A: Thanks for sharing that. Um, it actually means, um, a lot for us. We have, you know, a lot of, um, our beliefs and our values posted on the walls, and it helps us. Sometimes you walk by them, you don't see them, and sometimes they speak to you.
Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes that visual reminder just hits you right in the face. Right?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Especially the cooperative. Damn it.
Speaker B: I love that. Well, as we start our conversation today, uh, I'm excited to personally learn more about your own story, but also to let our listeners learn about our story. Uh, but I'd love to dive in first. Kind of the beginning of your life. And what experiences as you were growing up do you think helped you to become the leader that you are today? You know, hindsight's 20 20, so now we get to look back into the past, uh, with all that hindsight.
Speaker A: Well, so go way back. Um, and, um, I actually grew up in Maine. Um, great place to grow up. I actually grew up in a neighborhood with all boys, um, and an older brother that used to like to beat on me. Um, and so, you know, constantly reaching and stretching. Right. And, um, and, um, competing with him and all the other kids in the neighborhood that happened to all be boys. Um, um, but, um, it was really, um, not having any boundaries. Right. Um, you could just run the neighborhood. Our town was Lubeck, Maine. 2,000 people, and we had the ocean right down the street. It just was an, uh, idyllic place to grow up. Was not a good place to make money. Uh, my first job, I, um, delivered newspapers that I did babysitting. Um, and then eventually I ended up waiting tables. Waiting tables. Um, what A great job. There are days as CEO that I wish I could go back. You work really hard, you meet some great people, you meet some kind of shitty people, but you just try to win them over because that's how you get paid. And at the end of the day, you walk out with cash in your pocket. Um, and hard, uh, work is behind you, and you don't have anything to bring home with you. Right. The day is done. Nothing's carrying over. Nothing's going to be sitting on that desk the next day. Um, it really is. You're. You're paid and rewarded that day. And it's cash.
Speaker B: Yeah. You know, you're not the first person we've had on this podcast that has talked about having an early job where you have to deal with the public and how important that was in building a lot of their skill sets. I'm curious, just as you think about your waiting days, uh, any fun stories that pop out to you?
Speaker A: Oh, you mean when I spilled food on somebody or.
Speaker C: Ah.
Speaker A: Um, I just love it, actually. It became a challenge to win over the grumpy people. Right. And so, uh, I guess you could fast forward today and, um, whenever there's a problem, that's what ends up on your desk. When people want to leapfrog the person in front of them, they don't like the answer that they have. Uh, and we have a philosophy that's customer first. Um, make it feel like it's private banking for every single, um, bank customer that comes into the bank. And if that's the case, you've got to just win them over even if they're not. Right. Um, actually, um, just acknowledging, recognizing, and, um, trying to meet, um, their expectations.
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I can't miss this opportunity to ask a kid that grew up in Maine that felt like she didn't have any boundaries. I mean, it makes me think of it. I love Star Cake Dairy Maine. And, uh, just, you know, it definitely makes me think of that quintessential, like, little get little kids growing up, uh, living their lives and getting a lot of lived experiences without adults sitting right over their shoulders watching them and, uh, allowing you to kind of grow and stretch. Uh, and it sounds like you had, you know, very similar experience, uh, even riding the bikes.
Speaker A: Right. Um, without the clown. Uh, you have to live some of the values that you learned at home, though, right? There are opportunities to kind of go off the path. Um, and you always kept the group together. And, um, uh, even fast forward when you're in your 20s, when you're in college and um, just making sure you, um, got your crew and everybody takes care of your crew.
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Let's move into college. So I know that you did, uh, you got your undergraduate degree in, uh, a degree that most people probably would not associate, uh, with a bank CEO. But uh, I'd love to hear a little bit about that story and your journey kind of in that formal education process.
Speaker A: Yeah, so I play piano. Um, I ended up getting a scholarship for music and that's when my folks couldn't afford to pay for college. And so guess what I went to college for and I enjoyed it. Um, and I do enjoy playing the piano. But when I actually graduated, that's when the school budgets were being cut. Um, and um, so what do you do? You go work for a bank. I think anybody that didn't go into education went into banking back then. Um, and I really didn't want a classroom, um, of 30 snot nose kids. Right. Um, um, a couple of kids are fine, but anything more than a couple and it gets kind of wild. So decided I didn't want to do that. And to be honest, I can play anything that you give me music for, but I'm not a creator. Um, and in my mind that's the difference between a real musician and someone who plays somebody else's music. Um, um, um. And I fell into banking and I absolutely loved it. Maybe it's the rhythm, the math that's involved in it. I always, um, did well at math. Um, and I also had really good leaders that actually, um, saw opportunities, um, for me and helped me get to those, um, and saw that I was willing to do the hard work to do it. Um, I went back to school at night, um, for my business degree and never stopped. I think that's from a messaging standpoint. If, um, you can continue to learn and grow, don't just presume your first job is where you're going to end up. Um, but it's up to you to do that. Um, it's not up to somebody else to make that happen, but also finding people that actually can help you along your pathway, people that you respect, um, and can follow their leadership.
Speaker B: Yeah. Isn't that balance so weird where you have to be self directed, you have to be self driven, you have to do all those things, but part of that is you also have to rely on others to be able to help and mentor you. How have you found that balance, uh, throughout your career?
Speaker A: Ooh, I don't know if it's a balance or if it's just good luck. I actually, um, every place I landed, um, I could tell you of a person who actually spent time with me, um, and maybe it's being open to other people and listening to what they have to say, um, um, and being willing to learn from other people. Um, so the very first bank I worked for, Jim Coulter was there and he was the cfo. And um, I had an opportunity to go into the finance area. And he's like, no, I really think your talent would be lending. Um, and who knew? I absolutely did lending and loved it. Became, um, a commercial lender. And um, even in that commercial lending experience, you're exposed to so many different businesses. Um, you know, the big deals are done by the Cree lenders, but the really awesome deals are actually done by the CNI lenders. Because every single business is different. Yeah. And anybody that starts a business is, um. First of all, they're fearless because they're willing to step out, um, and they're starting a business from scratch because they're good at something and they're willing to throw their all into it, um, and risk their, um, all their personal investments and um, anything that they've actually built up. And so, um, anybody that's willing to do that, then if they have a good banker that can help them, um, and facilitate that growth, um, it's rewarding just seeing every business be successful because you've got to have a part in that. And that's really. That's economics 101. Right. Um, close the book now.
Speaker B: It's got to be one of the best parts of being a banker. Right? Like being able to see, uh, all these little businesses get started and grow and flourish and be a part of their story.
Speaker A: It's money multiplication, but it's also, you're creating jobs through other people, um, their talent. And your money, um, is actually creating opportunity for other families then to be successful so that, um, they can buy a home. And so it's just this virtuous circle. See, banking is virtuous. I feel like you're in church.
Speaker B: I'm at the, uh. Yes, the church of banking. It's funny, I fell into banking and banking technology back in 2007 and very ignorant of the whole space, but I have to tell you, just jumping into it for the first time and really understanding the critical role, uh, that uh, the community banks, regional banks, even the national banks and even the worldwide banks and, and the credit unions, like, all just the whole ecosystem and what it does to be able to help drive innovation in our economy. It really is, uh, it is really. It is virtuous. Uh, and I love seeing that.
Speaker A: I like the way that you actually described, um, the whole landscape of banking because so often, um, regulators, um, and um, try to pitch small banks, regulators or legislators try to pit, um, small banks against big banks. Um, and um, we can't do at Reading co op what JPMorgan Chase can do for the large largest companies, but they also can't do what we do. Um, there is no way that they can get into every corner and truly meet the right need for the right customer at the right time. And so, um, it is. And that's the beauty of the American banking system is there's so many different financial institutions doing different things, um, but the fabric of all of it makes for the healthiest, uh, banking system in the world.
Speaker B: Yeah, no, I totally agree. Now I have two questions for you. Kind of going back a little bit to early professional days and um, during college. So one is the amount of entrepreneurs, the amount of CEOs, the amount of leaders that you run into who play musical instruments is actually really, really high. So I would love just to hear kind of. I know you got your undergrad in it and then you moved on from it as a profession, but you did share. You still play the piano. I'd love to hear a little bit of being a musician has maybe helped you, uh, do in your profession and uh, explore that just a little bit.
Speaker A: Uh, so my dad, um. So I was adopted. M. My mom and dad were at West Point. Um, they couldn't have kids and so they adopted me. My dad was given the opportunity to go to Vietnam or go to West Point and play in the U.S. army band.
Speaker B: Um, which one would you pick
Speaker A: such a. Such a choice? Um, and so he, um. Um. And so he was a really good bugler. And so he would, um, play reveille every morning, wake up all the cadets. Um.
Speaker B: Oh my. Yeah, that's awesome. He was the one.
Speaker A: He was the one. Um, but he also would, um, uh, march in the US Um army band for any of the inaugurations and, um, any other time when the U.S. army Band was actually asked for. Um, so, um, lover of music. Um, and, um, so my brother and I were going to play instruments. Um, and he also then went to, um, seminary. He took the GI Bill and went to seminary, became a minister. So then I got to be a church pianist. Um, and so, um, lots of opportunity to use musical instruments. But, um, I also played clarinet, um, in the band. And probably every single one of the bankers you were talking about about were probably a band kid and the band kids were always the nicest kids. But you also learn, um, that you're a part of a group and it's not all about you and it's not about standing out as yourself special. Um, it's actually blending your music and making, um, a melodious harmony, um, together instead of being the star of the show. Um, I don't know if that has anything to do with the question that you asked, but that's all of a sudden what came to mind. When I actually think about music, uh, and how I got there, and the fact that there are so many bankers that actually also play instruments.
Speaker C: This is a leadership principle that I've seen over and over in my career. The best leaders also know how to be the best followers. When you're playing music in a band, you need to recognize that you're not the star of the show unless that's your role for the moment. As a leader, you need to figure out how to contribute to the team's objective, regardless of who gets the credit. It takes a lot of maturity and wisdom to step into the spotlight when it's needed and then fade into the background so that someone else can step up.
Speaker B: Okay, so the next question I wanted to ask just about a little bit about the education side, but also I'd just love to get your opinion as a leader of, ah, um, a great and thriving company. The role of formal education, I think has evolved over the years. I know you had mentioned, um, back when you were growing up, not everyone went to college. That wasn't a thing. And for the last several decades it's been, you know, if you go to college, you're going to get a good job and you're going to be successful. And if you want a good job, they're going to make sure that you have, uh, your, at least your undergraduate degree. But maybe you need your master's or you need your PhD or whatever. And I think you're starting to hear a little bit more of, hey, maybe not everyone needs to go to college, especially as the price of education has gone up. So I would just love to hear your, uh, perspective on the role of formal education for those people that want to step into significant leadership roles.
Speaker A: So as far as formal education is concerned, it is something that creates a foundation that you have. But now, you know, my foundation was, um, primarily a music degree, um, but also all the basic courses, um, that everybody, um, has to have. Um, I think, um, depending on where you are and what you actually have access to, you can still make something from that. Um, we actually have um, an internship program here at the bank. We have two high school branches, um, and those are feeder programs that actually bring uh, young folks from our vocational schools into the bank, um, into a business role. And um, those interns eventually become employees of the bank. Um, a lot of those interns um, um, aren't going straight to college but through the programs that we actually have, um, for um, both the state internship program, the certificate program, um, but just by being employees of the bank, they can actually go back to college, um, at night, um, and actually achieve. Um, when you actually know what you want to do and are going to school, it's very different than just going to college for the sake of going to college. Um, if that makes sense. So when I went to school at night, everything that I took, um, the classes that I specifically chose were ones that were going to make me better at my job. Um, when you go to college right from high school, you don't know what that job's going to be. You don't really understand exactly how what you're learning today is going to apply. Um, I think it's important for people that want leadership roles to always have um, and mind open and seeking out educational opportunities that will elevate them where they are. And I'd also say when I got my MBA, which was in 2000, that's not what they're teaching in MBA schools now. Um, the, the way you build a business plan and innovate and create products and go to market today. 20 years ago it was entirely different because of the technology that's available in how people are receiving things and just how we actually think um, about friction and how you build something before you would build it all the way out and not even know if the customer wanted it. You just hope. Hope and pray is not a strategy. Um, and so um, going back um, every 5, 10, 15 years is important to actually keep yourself relevant. Um and um, it's actually how you understand how the worldview is. Um, and I've been able to do that. In fact, um, one of the most powerful education programs that I actually participated in was um, I think about five years ago is the LEADS program. It's actually run by Harvard um, professors, um, for the benefit of a low income gateway city in Massachusetts. Um, and it's actually spun out as a nonprofit and now it's um, running in other gateway cities as well. But that brought um, individuals from cross sectoral individuals into a room together and Taught them some of the newest ideas that were being taught. And, um, the trust building and even that, um, meeting with municipal leaders and nonprofits and small businesses and learning in that collective, um, was probably one of the most powerful learning experiences I ever experienced. So thinking about where you're getting your learning from and how it can actually, um, expose you and open your mind up to elements that you might not be exposed to otherwise.
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you know, pulling on that thread, I know that you shared that from Harvard, but I know that there's multiple different times throughout your career that you've gone back into some sort of formal educational process, uh, to be able to do that. So it's. I love seeing that you've lived the advice that you just gave. One of the things that I took away from some of your comments is really, it's. The medium by which you're going to learn isn't as important as understanding the why. Sometimes it's going to be exploratory. I'm not sure exactly what I want to do, but let's go get exposure. Let's have some foundation, let's have some framework. And other times it's very intentional. I know I want to do this, and I want to be better, and I need to stay up to date. So I'm going to actively look for, with direct intention of what. What I want to do and how I want to get that education. And I think understanding that why can help a lot of people who might be struggling with this question. Because I get this all the time. Hey, Nathan, should I get my mba? Hey, Nathan, I never graduated. Should, uh, I go get my undergrad? I think what you just shared gave me a good framework to share with them, to ask, well, why. Why are you thinking about doing it, and what are you hoping to get out of it? Because depending on how you answer that question, there's different paths that you could go. So thank you for sharing those insights.
Speaker A: You're welcome.
Speaker B: So as we talked a little bit about your. You fell out of music and into banking and really just fell in love with it. And so I'd, uh, love to just kind of go through what was your path as you grew up as a banker, and what were some of the key moments that really helped you to understand what you want to do.
Speaker C: You already shared the story about the
Speaker B: CFO who kind of took you under the wing and said, hey, lending might be the place where you really can, really can thrive. But I'd love just to learn even more about that.
Speaker A: So we just we talked about lending earlier where um. How um. How. How um. How rewarding it was to put money into individuals hands um and see what they did with it. For someone to buy a home, for someone to start a business, for someone to buy a business, for someone to scale a business. Um. But um, after that banking experience. So I started in banking. M And I didn't realize that it was um, an industry that was on the brink of crisis. But shortly after I started in banking, um, the New England banking crisis happened and I probably was one of the few bankers that actually elected to go to the FDIC because um, there were um, very few other opportunities at the time rather than ending up there because my bank failed. Um and so I ended up working at the FDIC's Office of Liquidation um during the years when we were closing banks in Massachusetts. And um, I don't even remember the sheer number. It was every weekend one or two banks were failing. And um, at that time um, you wouldn't know until Thursday whether or not you were on the closing group. And on Friday you'd actually end up arriving at a bank that was closing. Um, and I think uh, just um, to segue. I think when there are crises that happen whether they're inside your bank or whether they're outside your bank or wherever you are, when those opportunities are really when you thrive and grow. It also is when leaders actually see who is willing to run into the fire and help or who's complaining because they have too much work on their desk. Um and uh. So there's um. There are just kind of two views when I think about um, who actually grew the most during those periods and who actually found another job because it was just too difficult. Um, but I think I learned a lot also about leadership during um those rough years. Uh because on Fridays we'd end up um, walking into a bank. We're going to close a bank. Um, and the people that are there are just the people that are running the bank. They're not the people that made the leadership decisions or concentration decisions or decided to put too much into construction or too m much into condos or maybe even there was direct fraud within the institution itself. Um but the lives that were shattered as a result. People that had worked their entire careers supporting and building a bank and feel as passionately about that or felt as passionately about that bank as I feel about my bank now. Um, and it just disappeared overnight. And um. And but at the same time you're going in on the weekend and Monday morning this bank is Going to open up as a different bank. Um, and all those assets and liabilities have to be tallied, counted, converted, and, um, um, the customer needs to be serviced at the other financial institution on Monday morning. So, um, being able to motivate and get people to work with you and for you, even though they're at a moment of personal crisis, um, helped me develop, um, empathy both for people, um, in that workspace, um, and, um, figure out how to motivate people by treating them well, um, and having compassion for them, but also getting the job done.
Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't imagine how hard that would be. Both, you know, obviously the people who are at the bank, as you mentioned, many of which didn't have any control of what was happening to them, but then from your perspective, having to step in and understand that this huge emotional turmoil is going in these people's lives and heads, but be like, well, and I still have a job to do.
Speaker A: And I still have a job to do. Yeah. And you're marshaling assets. And, um, I think the other thing during those crises, um, learning what people did, um, because then we got to take the assets that weren't very good, um, because no bank picked up those ones, um, and so seeing the decisions that were made that got loans in trouble, um, and figuring out how to unravel situations, uh, so there was a lot of exposure to, um, some very interesting transactions. And, um, I've always, um, know a lot of bankers that are m of my own generation talk, um, about the things that we learned during that period. And there's. Until you have a crisis, um, every loan is good. Right?
Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker A: And then, um, the storm comes and then you realize that there is a difference between a good loan and a bad loan.
Speaker B: Um,
Speaker C: there's a lot to be said for learning from positive role models and proven strategies. But oftentimes the most durable formative lessons come from surviving a crisis and gaining intimate knowledge of the wrong way to do something. Hopefully, as a leader, you can learn from someone else's mistakes. As you just heard from Julie, it's easy to convince yourself that all your decisions are brilliant. When the economy is good, it's much harder to ignore your mistakes. When a storm is in full swing and the organization is capsizing.
Speaker B: It is really cool that you have this experience to be able to see that multiple times, like every other week, every week. It could be a different story for you to be able to learn, hey, what went wrong here? And I'm sure now you can lean back on those experiences and be like, oh, we probably don't want to do that. Let me tell you a quick story about this one bank over here.
Speaker A: Uh, there was a term back then in substance foreclosure, that I just actually literally pulled, um, out of the cobwebs, um, the other day, um, at our loan committee. Um, and so you're absolutely right. These obscure things that happen during a crisis, um, that actually become a repository of knowledge that you can actually reach back and shake off, dust off, and, um, put back in use, um, in the future. Whether it was loan modifications that we had to do, um, to work out loans and being able to then apply the same knowledge and, uh, information when we ended up in the pandemic. And all of a sudden we're thinking about how are we going to help our customers get through this without triggering bad. A host of bad loans?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: All right. I have a. I have a somewhat deep question for you, but I think this is a great time to talk about this because it is a real thing. I know a lot of leaders work through.
Speaker C: So as leaders,
Speaker B: you build empathy, you care about people. They have. Everyone has hard things that they're dealing with. In this case, you were working with people who, you know, might be losing their job or their institution was going under. And as you have that empathy and you start understanding their feelings and get to know them, it's hard not to take that upon yourself. And on the other side, no matter what human emotions are going on around you, you have a job to do. In this case, you had a bank that you had to transition. You have a bank that you need to run now. And regardless of what's going on in people's lives or your own lives, you still have to work through that and have to be able to push through the difficulty in these emotions, um, that you care deeply about these people that are going through difficult times. I just love to get, uh, some thoughts from you about this. How can you remain mentally healthy or, um, have your emotions regulated in a way that you can have that deep empathy for people and understand where they're coming from and have a deep care and might even say love for the people that you're working with while also still being able to move forward and take action and do the things that you need to do as a leader?
Speaker A: Um, that is a difficult question. So I've been very, um. I'm very good at compartmentalizing, um, and, um, separating the decision that I'm making, um, from the emotions. Um, so, um, I guess I use the term going up to the balcony, to be able to see, um, the emotions and understand them, but then to also see the way through. Um, and the path may, um, not be perfect for everyone. Um, but as long as you treat people with respect and recognize that you're dealing with human beings, um, and um, find the best way forward for everyone, um, it does, um, require almost like, um, moving the pieces around a little bit. Um, never make a rash decision, um, without stepping back and thinking about the implications for everybody that is involved. Um, but then thinking about what is the right decision for the financial institution and how will that impact the people and uh, how can you make that the easiest way possible or what's the best decision in that? So it really is stepping back, um, and not running in, um, going back to education. When I did my master's program, um, there was one part, um, of the program which was all about your personality and understanding who you are. Um, I, um, tend to be a little bit impulsive. And so what I just described to you is not impulsive. Um, and so, uh, being willing to acknowledge that there may be some parts of your personality that are abrasive, um, uh, and being willing to um, change yourself for the benefit of the organization or the people or the situation that you're in, even though your first instinct would be to plunge, um, to instead, um, take a different tact because it's the right tact for that moment.
Speaker B: Yeah. I am going to 100% plagiarize you for the rest of my life. I love the imagery of walking up to the balcony. I just think it's such a beautiful imagery of what you have to do as a leader to work through difficult things. Um, and just because you don't want to stay in the balcony, because you can't stay in the balcony, you're going to have to come back down. But as you're. As you're working through it, being able to walk up those stairs and see the holistic view, I think is super powerful. I just. I love it. I'm going to. I hope you don't mind if I, if I use that for the rest of my life, because that is extremely powerful.
Speaker A: Uh, and uh, and it's not just looking down at today, it's also thinking what the implications are in the future. So, um, if you're not up there, you're not looking out.
Speaker B: Yeah. M. I love that. The other thing that you shared, which has been very important just for my own personal journey, is you can't just look at strategically what is the right direction to move in or tactically based off of the facts, what are the right actions to take? You also have to take the lens and how does this impact people and how are people going to feel about it? And in fact the way that they react and the way that people are going to feel about it or think about it might actually influence the right action to take from a tactical or strategic perspective. Uh, so I love that you pulled out that it's important to look at both of those lenses because, uh, as you shared, um, you spent some time looking at personality tests and those different types of things. I've done that as well. Very early on in my career I was all about what's the right logical thing? And then is like whatever happens after that. Well, it's the right logical thing. So I actually don't. You know, why doesn't everybody understand it? Exactly, exactly. So I love that you pulled that out. Yeah, exactly. You know, all of a sudden the
Speaker A: different constituencies as well, when you were talking about people, it's not just um, the people that are doing, it's also the people that are receiving. It's the stakeholders on the outside, the stakeholders on the inside. Um, I think one of the things that I've always been less, um, with is actually working for mutual institutions. Um, and um, the benefit of um, that means that um, my priorities can be our people, our customers, um, um, and our employees. So um, it allows you to be a little bit more focused without having the shareholder be the number one response.
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I've always loved the stakeholder theory of management rather than the shareholder theory of management. It is about the whole ecosystem, not just one person or one group of people in the ecosystem. And uh, it is really cool with different uh, ownership structures how you might actually be able to meld some of those groups.
Speaker A: Well, you get to identify values for the organization and follow those, um, um. And always benchmark back against those.
Speaker B: Yeah, that's powerful. So I'd love to. So, uh, there's a lot to learn from your FDIC experience. I'd love to kind of get uh, into your transition to where you are now within reading. Because I know there's just so much to be able to dive into, uh, in your experiences, uh, in leading reading as well. So after, uh, you're at the FDIC for a while, went through a tour of duty that sounded extremely difficult but also extremely frustrating, fruitful in your learnings, kind of what was next for you?
Speaker A: I will back up and say the one thing um, that was beneficial as far as the fdic is they had resources at that time, financial institutions didn't. They actually were all, um, struggling financially, um, during that crisis. Uh, and so, um, you got all of the training, um, on anything that you could possibly know. So on top of having um, on the ground, such, um, on the ground and on the job training, there's also specific training that was actually available to us. So, um, that was very rewarding. But when I was at the fdic, um, one of the banks that I closed, the um, liquidator in charge was Donald Hicks, um, and Don Hicks. And I hit it off very well. He um, told me later on that he actually, when I was talking about your work ethic is seen by other people. He actually saw me working there and he actually told me that he said to himself, I'm going to watch her. I'm going to see where she goes. Um, and um, five years later I was at Lawrence Savings bank and he was the president at Reading Cooperative Bank. And he picked up the phone and he called me and asked me to come and run his lending department. Um, that brought me to Reading and having somebody that obviously already respected me, knew the work that I was going to bring or the work ethic that. That I was going to bring. Um, he also then, um, opened up a lot of opportunities for me. He had asked me whether or not where I wanted to go and I told him I wanted his job and um, whether it was because he was a father of a daughter who was in banking. M. Who knows why he actually decided to pour so much into me, but he actually really paved the road and created the opportunities for me. Um, and M. I went to the National School of Banking. I went to the Massachusetts School of School of Banking. I got my mba. Um, um. And he just encouraged me and constantly mentored me, told me when I was being stupid and told me when I needed to straighten up and um, who was like a banking father figure. How's that? Um. Um. And finding people that you actually. In fact there's another person, Andy Calamari, who was the Commissioner of banks in Massachusetts and he was the CEO at um, the dif. Um, there are people that you actually watch and see and learn so much from and they don't even know that they've been a mentor to you in their career. And then there are the other ones that are very direct, um, and poor into you. Um, but Don asked me what I wanted. I told him I wanted his job. And um, at that point we actually had um, a board of old white men, um, who um, sometimes not atypical for that time. Not atypical, um, who sometimes would sleep at the table, um, but Don, um, recognized that this would be a change for them. And he literally, um, um, wrote a memo to them when he was talking about succession, um, talking about when he wanted to retire, um, and, um, blatantly asking the board, would you be willing to have a woman, um, as CEO, and would you be willing to have a woman under the age of 40, um, as CEO of the bank?
Speaker C: It's so easy to forget the kind of entrenched biases and assumptions that have governed the business world in the last 20 years, let alone 50 years. The kind of openness and vision that Don Hicks exhibited by tapping Julie to be his successor was radical at the time, especially in banking. It's also one of the most important traits that a leader can have. You need to be looking for the best talent, the hungriest, most teachable people you can find, and call those people up, uh, to their full potential.
Speaker A: I just see that as, um, just permission to be direct as well. When you need to be direct, um, and call something out or, um, force somebody else to. I guess he didn't call it out, he just asked the question. So, um, it allowed someone to actually check themselves, uh, um, and see whether or not they actually had any bias, um, and then dismiss it. And then, um, it was never a problem again.
Speaker B: Yeah. Julie, there's so many great things about that whole story that I'm just so excited about. Like the. Be a Don, right? So, I mean, first, like, be that person that can find talent and be willing to help them. Uh, be a Julie and be willing to, like, say, this is what I want. Even some people might be like, oh, you can't tell your boss that you want their job. That's scary, right? Or, I have these big aspirations, but if I say it out loud, like, can it really happen? Having that courage to kind of step out there, uh, change management. I mean, for goodness sake. Don knew that it was going to create some issues, so he welcomed the conversation well before the decision needed to be made, because then it allowed time and space for those people that needed to change to be able to have that opportunity. I mean, just so many great things. So thank you so much for sharing that story.
Speaker A: Yeah, so I do want to share. Dawn, uh, passed away earlier this year. Um, and, um, it wasn't just me, uh, so learning from that, um, and so, um, my takeaway from what he did for me, and even, um, I guess I'm eulogizing him Here. But, um, um, in that moment, um, being able to say, wow, look at all the people he poured into and how much better the world is because all of these, um, dawn acolytes are out there, um, that, um, he actually shared his values and vision with, um, are all now out there doing good things for other people. And let's make sure. Let's try to be a don, um, and, um, make sure that there are other folks who benefit, um, because we have this opportunity and this power in this moment, um, to actually help other people achieve their goals for their life. And maybe those just become positive ripples in this world.
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Can't say anything other to that than amen. I totally agree, and I love that. And, uh, it's perfectly great to eulogize wonderful people, um, and share with others their amazing stories. So you broke through. I mean, two different ceilings, if you will, in the banking world. You were a young CEO and you're a female, and both of those are very uncommon. Ah. I think they've gotten more common over the years, but I think there's still, uh, a lot of work to be done on both of those. But you're driven. You're obviously super curious. You have worked so hard to get both on the job training as well as outside the job training. You now have the reins of Reading Man. I'd love to hear some of the fun stories that you have of after you've taken those reins of, uh, learnings and things that you tried. Maybe some things that worked, some things that didn't work, but, uh, things that have, again, helped to really define who you are as a leader. I'd love to hear some of those
Speaker A: stories, so I will share with you. So the very first, um, moment that I became CEO, I had an executive committee of three board members and one gentleman. Dick Finlayson really wanted me to have a contract, probably because I was young and in the seat. Um, um, um. And they were very supportive of me very early on. Um, and I didn't want a contract. I actually thought, I don't want a contract because if I'm bored, I want to be able to leave. I don't want to get stuck. Because I was thinking about, um, that what's next?
Speaker B: What's next?
Speaker A: What's next? Exactly. Um, and his response to me was, um, you're in the CEO seat now. It's up to you. Um, if you're bored, it's your own fault. And so, um, just that statement, in and of itself, I think, gave me permission. Right. Um, to do something different. And then it's. Then strategic planning comes and what are you going to do? So um, you have to start putting yourself out there to find out new things that are happening. What's happening? Um, um, the one thing I share with a lot of people is paying attention to what's happening, um, with young people. What are they doing now? So community, um, banks do very well with 50 year olds and 60 year olds and definitely 78 and 80. Um, what we don't do well with is that next generation, um, and what's important for our relevancy prospectively is making sure that we have a next generation to serve. Otherwise um, our money is going to just glide out the door through everybody's estate. So how do we maintain our relevancy, um, and um, how do you get yourself exposed? You're absolutely right. You mentioned earlier about the education like okay, I really don't know where to go next. So I need to go back to school. I need to go hear what is being taught. Um, and so the Harvard Extension School has great programs where um, let's go and hear what they're talking about strategy and let's thinking about what's happening in the product space, um, and making sure that you're at places like Finovate, um, and at banking conferences, not every banking conference is going to introduce new ideas, um, but see what other bankers are actually doing out there. Um, so um, I guess uh, making sure that you're exposed to what is happening in the broader world and understanding what its implications are for us. One of the things um, we do here is we put the Wall Street Journal in every employee's hands so that they can actually make sure that they're reading about what's happening in today's world. And that's one of the points that I'll always tell our newest leaders is um, you need to be educated about what's happening in the world, not just what's happening in your branch, in your office, in your department. You need to thinking about what's changing and what are the chances and opportunities for us improving things. Um, so I think that's um. I don't know if I, um, answered the question exactly how you expected me to, but it's really thinking constantly about what's changing and being willing to pivot and change, um, and adopt and address. Um, I think um, my team members get exhausted because I always um, am coming up with new ideas, um, and trying to keep things fresh. Um, but I always feel like I'm watching for the Next shoe to drop, what's happening next? And maybe that's having been through multiple crises, um, um, and you start to see, um, when excesses start to build. Um, and how do you make sure. So we're a mutual bank. I guess that's the other thing is we're a mutual bank. I can only build capital through earnings. And so I um, know how much I can grow next year based on what my current capital is and what my earnings rate is. So that means I need to get more efficient. So I need to adopt new strategies, whether it's um, AI or um, um, robotic process automation, things that are actually going to allow us to generate more revenue so that I can grow more. Um, or look at opportunities with the um, merger, um, with the mutual that's uh, in the next market over. How are we going to actually maintain the relevancy of our organization? Because if you're not growing, then you're stagnating.
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. One piece about the story of reading that I would love to dive into specifically based off of the audience that we build, uh, this or do this podcast for, um, it's the blend between bankers and technologists. Right. And um, first off, I know you're one of the founding banks of um, Alloy Labs, and then you also set up a uh, ah, specific.
Speaker C: I think it's called. What is it?
Speaker B: Is it the fintech hub in Massachusetts?
Speaker A: The Massachusetts fintech hub? Yes.
Speaker B: Yeah, the Massachusetts fintech hub. So you have actively been doing things that bridge what I think is one of the gaps that the closer and closer we can get the bankers in the industry and the technologists in the industry working together.
Speaker C: So I just love to hear a
Speaker B: little bit like what drove you to do those types of things and maybe what are one or two things that you've learned from stepping into that void in a significant way.
Speaker A: So, um, our um, football team is the Patriots. Um, and they were great. Um, and they will be great yet again. Um, but um, there was one year during the super bowl that uh, there was an ad for SoFi, and that was um. And I ended up applying for the loan during the intermission and um, getting a 70, uh, thousand dollars loan at some crazy low rate. M. Just on my phone. Um, and that was kind of an epiphany moment for me that there is no reason why the best customers in the world in the United States and Massachusetts, in Reading, Massachusetts need to come to me anymore. Um, they can get it elsewhere and they can get it faster and better. So how are we going to Be better as an organization? How are we going to be faster and more nimble? And at the same time, my kids were in high school and um, they were not relating with their checking account. Um, um, two of them actually worked at the bank, but their relationship with their bank was not the same as I expected them to have it. Um, they didn't use our bill pay. Um, they let Discover, um, take money out of their checking account. So they actually, instead of pushing payments out, they were letting um, everybody into their wallet. Um, they were using Venmo. So just all of the things that they were doing had nothing to do with what Reading was offering.
Speaker C: Think about that for just a moment. Your own children, employees of the bank you lead, using other services to manage their money. Julie could have gotten angry about these facts, letting it hurt her ego. But that's not what she did. She realized it was an invitation to grow and make Reading into a better bank that could survive the future. As you're about to hear, she took a big step that would allow her to help shape the future of banking and technology. Rather than watching from the sidelines,
Speaker A: Jason Henricks, um, was actually talking about that the divide between um, what's happening in the financial tech space and what's happening in our banks is too wide. And if banks aren't going to. Banks are not going to be relevant if they don't start embracing technology. And um, he had identified banks that had open mind towards more innovation and brought a group of 20 of us together in Chicago, um, to have a conversation about creating this cooperative of banks so that we could innovate together. And that could have, could be innovating by creating product, um, or it could be innovating by using, um, or it could be a partnership, um, but um, driving down the price of that partnership by having the collective number of customers for our members, um, or um, just by being thought leaders and sharing um, our knowledge, um, with each other by creating that trusted circle of financial institutions. And so you're not going it alone. Um, um, and also where we um, also do have a division that actually does investments in fintechs as well, which allows us to be right there, um, parallel and seeing what's actually happening, um, even more broadly. So that's that Alloy Labs connection, but also kind of the genesis of what I was seeing and why um, I felt it was imperative that we start doing things. We partnered with um, with um, your organization as well. I mean, um, when I think about what you and Jay have done, um, you actually saw something that wasn't Working in the banking space for a subset of customers and went out and built something for them. Um, um, and that's made it easier. Um, um, those landlords existed a long time ago and they had a whole lot of paperwork and a whole lot of hard work and they were chasing bounce checks, et cetera. Um, and so you actually took the friction out of those relationships. And so that's what I learned through that process. Um, um, and then being able to, um. And then I think I mentioned going back, um, and some of the, um, education that I had gotten, just thinking about innovation differently and identifying, um, friction points for our customers and trying to solve for those so that we make sure that we're relevant in the future.
Speaker B: Yeah, no, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing those stories and also thank you so much just for how much you do in the industry. Uh, we, uh, haven't had a chance to really talk about it too much, but not only have you been doing significant outreach and work between bridging the gap between, um, fintech companies and banks, but you've also been very, very active in the community of banks themselves through the ABA and other organizations. So, uh, it's just awesome to be able to see the. See all that you can do. And I wish that we could continue, uh, to just pick your brain and uh, m. Hear more of your stories because there's so much to. So much to be learned. Um, but I did want to go ahead and move to kind of the last two questions that we always like to ask our guests here. Uh, so the first one, if you had a book to recommend that was not a business book, what would you recommend?
Speaker A: Um, so I. So I'm going to go two ways. So I, um. As far as fiction is concerned, I do find, um. I've been a reader since I was, um, little. And the one, um, place where I shut off is when I go to the beach. Um, and I read a good book. Um, and I do love the author, Daniel Silva. Um, and he has a whole series of, um, books. Um, so that's one and then the other. Um, I love the book Walden. Um, and, um, that's apropos for where you live. It is. It absolutely is. But it also, um. It's almost like the Bible. Right? Um, it's like if you actually need, um, to get some inspiration, you need to separate, um, and um, clean out your head. Um, what do you read? Um, just something that actually just, um, centers you. So.
Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. I was so excited. Uh, you know, you had Mentioned that, uh, I worked with Jay to bring together this organization, and we did. So I actually moved to Boston, and we lived very close to Walton Pond, and it was very, very cool, uh, to be able to see it and be a part of it, but also have that writing that goes with it as well, which is, uh, very, very, very cool. All right, and then the last question. So from your perspective, is a leader born or is a leader made?
Speaker A: I think there are innate qualities and gifts that we all have. Um, but I believe a leader is made, um, through those influences on their life, um, those, um, pivots that they may have to take or the harder roads that they may have taken, um, that will actually turn innate abilities into great leaders. Yeah.
Speaker B: So everyone's given gifts, but it's what you do with them and whether you sharpen them and use them and grow them to step into that role.
Speaker A: Julie, I said both, right? Yeah. Just let the baby.
Speaker B: Um. Well, I mean, Julie, I can't be more grateful for your time today. And I just learned so much from this conversation, and I loved every minute, minute of it. So thank you so much for joining.
Speaker A: It was a pleasure being here with you guys. Thank you.
Speaker C: The musician, entrepreneur, and philanthropist Dolly Parton once said, if your actions create a legacy that inspires others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, then you are an excellent leader. Julie Thurlow's journey as a leader embodies every bit of the spirit Dolly is talking about. Julie has broken through multiple glass ceilings, building an organization that expands opportunity and access to resources for everyone. But her vision for Redding Cooperative bank wouldn't be possible if she was trying to be the hero with all the answers. Instead, she's determined to stay humble, teachable, and dedicated to the values that have served her bank for nearly 150 years. She's adept at viewing life from a higher perspective. The balcony, if you will. And giving others the chance to lead and use their unique gifts. She might be the CEO, but she doesn't need to be the star. That can be a difficult lesson for young leaders to learn, especially because of the hard work and sacrifices that earn you the promotion to leader in the first place. In a sense, the whole point of stepping into the power of leadership is to give that power away to others and help them succeed. It's another virtuous cycle if you're humble enough to embrace it. It's such a privilege that Julie Thurlow took this time to share her story with us, and I love that we can do the same with you our audience. As always, thanks for listening. You'll find the links to Julie's book recommendations in the show notes you've been
Speaker B: listening to Builder Banker Hacker Chief, a
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Speaker B: All rights reserved. Um, I'm your host Nathan Baumeister, the co founder of Z Suite Tech. This show is co produced, written and edited by Zach Garver. Sound engineering was done by Nathan Butler at Ah Nimblewit Productions.
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Speaker A: Sam mhm.
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