Solving the Housing Crisis: The Multi-Family Scaling Secret with Ryan Cadwell

Speaker A: Welcome to the Build it to Billions podcast where we guide successful entrepreneurs and investors on their journey from millions to billions. We believe the key to scaling and compounding your wealth in life starts every single day with a mindset and practice of stewardship over ownership and applying billionaire biblical principles. Our ultimate goal is to help you scale and compound your wealth in life so you can give more all the way to help MVPs. My, uh, name is Brett Swartz. On every episode, we are joined by some of the world's top entrepreneurs, millionaires or billionaires, and they share their secrets, wisdom and insight with us so we can all level up and make a bigger impact. I'm excited about our next guest. He's out of, uh, the uh, Indianapolis area, um, and he is a partner at Resolute rdm, A, uh, it's a real estate firm specializing in commercial investment and property management. Um, over 17 years of experience and he has, he's a CPM, a certified property manager and a CCIM candidate designation as well. He brings extensive, um, expertise in income producing assets, investment strategies, asset management, syndications, ground development. He's a real estate pro, is what we're, um, we're talking about here. Please welcome with me, Ryan Codwell. Ryan, how we doing?

Speaker B: Good, Brett. Thanks for having me. So excited to be here.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And for our listeners, getting to know you for the first time, maybe just give us a little bit more about your story and your current focus and then we'll, we'll dive into how to, how to build some wealth in today's market with property management.

Speaker B: Sure. Um, I grew up in the business. My dad owned, uh, some affordable apartments when I was young, so just cut my teeth mowing grass, changing toilets, doing the, doing, you know, the stuff you got to do, um, when you're a newbie. And uh, grew that, you know, um, grew that into a. Several hundred, uh, property portfolio. And then, um, and then I've just been, you know, leveling up ever since, um, switched from, did, did a couple hundred flips. Um, didn't like, didn't necessarily like not being able to control all of that. So then got into ground up development and then that's migrated into some of the bigger projects we're a part of now.

Speaker A: Excellent. Yeah, that's great. And so, um, let's dive right into it. What is the number one thing you're seeing for maximizing property management in today's marketplace? Um, I feel like there's lots of changes that are all kind of hitting at once, um, in a lot of ways. And, um, of course, depends what market you're in and what you're managing. But what are you seeing right now that your investors and. Or the owners that you work with most appreciate about what your firm is providing?

Speaker B: Sure. I mean, I think the main thing we provide, we provide more. Much more of a proactive approach. Proactive strategy as opposed to reactive. Um, I mean, anybody you know, knows that, you know, reactive usually can cost you more money. The proactive approach has more to do with buying. Right. Um, making sure you know what you want, why you want it. Uh, and then build a plan and we execute the plan as opposed to just flying by the, you know, flying by the, the seat of your shorts. Um, and, and just trying to figure it out as you go. Um, let, you know, let's build something together that's properly, uh, properly underwritten, um, with proper assumptions, uh, know where we got those assumptions from. And then, and then, you know, execute. Execute as best you can with the, you know, with things you can't control. Um, but I mean, the main thing that the, you know, a lot of the things we're getting brought into is just, uh, it, it totally depends on the asset class type. I mean, um, you know, office here in Indianapolis, there's a lot of flight to quality, so your BC assets are going to have to be repositioned in a different way. Um, multi family here, tons of delivery, um, on new units. So that's, you know, that's creating downward pressure on your B and C quality units. Um, totally just depends on the asset type. It depends on when you bought. It depends on if you've got any of those interest rate pressures, um, how leveraged you are, all, you know, all those different kinds of things. So whenever we get involved with somebody, it's, you know, it's learn, learn who they are, learn what they did, uh, and build accordingly.

Speaker A: Yeah, I could agree with you more, Ryan. And by the way, you can learn more about Ryan by, on, um, on LinkedIn. And Conwell is spelled C A D W E L L. Um, you know, I, I feel like there's three things to every deal and there would be management, whether it be acquiring, whether it be exiting. And there's. There's cash flow, which most people know. Right. But there's also tax flow. And the third one is also debt flow. I think a lot of people got, you know, maybe a little bit too comfortable with thinking that interest rates would be down or low for, for, for, you know, I had one client tell me, oh, they're going to be low Forever kind of thing, right? So that's called that debt flow. And they take that for granted. And obviously we're seeing the consequences of these resets now. Tax, um, flow. They're like, hey, I'm going to buy all these deals because I got this hundred percent bonus depreciation and if I don't buy it now, next year is going to be 80 and it's going to be 60. And you know, and so, you know, that was driving, you know, some of this, this, you know, their tax flow I can offset and just, you know, and then you have, you know, cash flow which you had these double digit rent growth, uh, in a lot of markets across the country for many years. Um, and it was like, man, this thing is just sweet is this is going to keep growing. I remember sitting back going, this is, this is a little crazy. This reminds me a little bit of 06, you know, um, and 05. And you know, we have a strategy where we can help people exit and defer tax and not have to deal with 1031s and all this stuff. But I'm curious, going back a couple of years, being in the property management business, what was your feeling in your gut of before, you know, 2022?

Speaker B: So, well, before 2022 it was, uh, you know, holy, like how do we, how do you, how do we stay on top of all the changes that came out of COVID just from a, just from an execution standpoint. But the, the bigger, the bigger thing with, with what you alluded to, especially with people that thought debt was never going to go back up was what other direction did it could it go? I mean, the only other way it could go is up. Um, so I mean, I spent a lot of time going and talking to my lenders, lender partners. I had other brokers in the market. I was asking them questions like, how are you guys doing this and why are banks underwriting some of these? To me it seemed like a bubble because everything was just so good. Like, how could it possibly be that good? Um, and then the other, the other flip side of that is when your cap rates kind of bottom out and hit a floor and that's where all valuations coming from. What, what's the next, what's the next realistic move in the future? Like cap rates are probably going to go up. When that happens, you're going to squeeze equity. Um, so for me, I mean I was interviewing tons of people, taking them to lunch and being like, this just doesn't make sense. Why are these being underwritten like this? Without more equity needed down because of being purposeful and knowing that you're going to have a squeeze on that cap valuation. Um, and it's one of those things where I kind of got told that most lenders are publicly traded. They care most about how, how that stock price is. So if loans is driving revenue and it's, you know, they don't necessarily care about the uh, you know, the, the uw on, on some of those things I felt like were a little bit, well they were flat out overpriced. Um, and I think you're starting to see more of those promised returns are starting to squeeze. Um, and I, you know, I have heard from other CPMs in the marketplace that some of the bigger, some of the bigger out that, you know, they're trying to operate these properties with extremely limited budgets, um, even budgets that weren't realistic. They were financially modeling things, removing specific pieces that property managers wanted to have in, you know, at their disposal or be able to maintain property values, not have tons of deferred maintenance that's going to impact valuation on disposition. So um, I mean watching all of that, it's just, it's, it's been more of a lesson in fundamentals. Like don't, the fundamentals don't change. And when it feels too good to be true, you probably like we need to apply our own self discipline, right? Like um, underwrite it as if like we were given a gift and this gift is, you know, has a finite end to it. Um, which we all realized couldn't agree with you more.

Speaker A: Right? And there's, there's deals that we, we still didn't get completely out of multifamily. We still have some clients take some positions and some deals. Do you feel like you built something valuable but you're unsure how to exit without losing a massive portion of it to capital gains taxes? Whether you're selling real estate, a business, bitcoin or other uh, highly appreciated assets, you don't need more tax noise or box in strategies. You need proven, flexible and practical exit planning. That's why we've created Capital Gains Tax Solutions. At Capital Gains Tax Solutions, we help purpose driven entrepreneurs and investors design customized capital gains tax exit plans using a trust with an installment sale method. So you can defer capital gains tax, unlock liquidity, diversify your wealth and move forward with more freedom and impact. Instead of being trapped by a 1031 exchange deadline over concentration of risk or writing a check to the irs, you gain flexibility, timing, control and asset protection and the freedom to align your Capital with your goals, values and legacy. And here's the best part. It's not about a product, it's about a plan and a team to help you execute the plan. A clear strategic exit plan built around your timeline, your priorities and your future, ready to protect more of what you built and create a Smarter exit. Visit capitalgainstaxsolutions.com to learn how a capital gains tax exit plan can help you keep more, invest with intention and make a bigger impact. Go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com or click the link in the show notes that have now been completely lost or on the verge of. I call it the jujitsu tap out of 2026. Like we thought it might have been 2025 but really it's 2026 and now like people's arms are getting snapped. They've been trying and so it's happening and they're losing to the banks and, or they're just completely selling all of their equity stack to, to a preferred equity uh, partner. And it's uh, it's painful but I think the developers number one mistake that I found or even just investor is exactly the mindset that, that things are going to continue as they are and not preparing and, and basically you know, staying in. Right? When I had one client, he was pretty smart, he goes but I always get out, you know, when there's still some meat on the bone. And I go, I never get in until like I let the sharks feed at the bottom. I like to like to kind of play the middle, let it, let it feed and let them get all the, all the, you know really when it's, and it starts to come back up, you know, I feel like the momentum is coming back up. Then I jump in and so it's kind of like this, you know, like the, think of like a 2060, 20 model. Like I don't want to get in the bottom 20, like I don't even want to risk that. I like the middle 60 and the top 20 gets frothy. I'm out. I don't need to wait for the height. Um, and the developers top mistake or investor mistake is not having an exit plan that gives them cash flow, debt flow and, and the ability to have timing tax flow for investments. And it's just painful to see because I was at Marcus Millship in 08 when this happened and we didn't know a solution except for just the 1031. 1031, 1031. That was kind of our uh, we thought it was that but the Problem is, you're typically selling and buying in the same market. Or if you're the developer, you built this amazing project, you've maximized this value, and you're like, do I want to just turn around and pay tax? Well, if you think about it, it probably is better because you can just turn around and go build another project. Right. It's going to take a couple of years. But the 1031 oftentimes forces people, well, I don't want to pay that tax. Let me just, Let me just jump it into this other one. So I'm curious, what is your biggest frustration with the 1031 exchange, especially from a developer standpoint? Because I know you're building that deal in Missouri. We can talk about this builder rent, you know, uh, community. But, uh, if you sell it, you got to buy equal or greater value within a 45, 180 period. And if you're buying bare land, it's. It's certainly, you know, going to be as expensive as the property you just sold. Right. Um, so walk us through a little bit of that mindset with the 1031.

Speaker B: I think the biggest thing with 1031 is that I even learned myself by doing. By doing it wrong is that the main thing I did wrong was I thought I always needed to do it. Like, there's a time, there is a financial calculation to where you're like, no, I'm going to pay my tax because of where the market's at right now. For me to go laterally makes no sense. So over the last four years, we've had a lot of conversations with our investors of whether or not do you. Do you even 1031 or do you just pay your tax? Because right now, you know, set your investment criteria, know how you got to that. If you don't have assets that meet, that don't be afraid to pay your taxes. Like, uh, especially, you know, especially if your returns are 10, 12, 15%. I think when you actually do the math, I mean, everybody's afraid of paying the tax guy. It's like this. The boogeyman, as opposed to no taxes is just part of the deal. Um, you know, you don't want to pay them if you don't have to pay them. If there's, if there's a strategy. But if by you avoiding taxes puts you in a bad deal, you still have the taxes to pay. And now you have a bad deal, you have both. Um, now you may. And at the end of the day, taxes are only a percentage of what you made as opposed to losing. I mean you could lose all of it.

Speaker A: I guess technically, honestly that's what we're seeing, right. We've seen people who overpaid, had too much debt, too much liquidity, too m. Too m. Not enough diversification. I'm sorry, not enough liquidity, not enough diversification, too much debt, all illiquid. And, and now, now that the ship can't turn fast enough. Right. With, with, with the, with the, with the uh, Titanic and there's the iceberg ahead. So we do have a solution. I want to buy you right, because you're ccim and um, I started at Marcus and Millichap and I've done this for a while now. So we use an installment set with a trust Ryan where a business state Bitcoin doesn't matter what it is, it can exit with no timing restrictions, no 1031 required, no debt replacement requirement. Which is the most kind of sneaky part of a 1031. It's not just equal or greater value of the sales price, it's equal, greater debt. Right. And these three year arms that have, you know, adjusted and now have shot up. That's what's sinking to. I have, I have a lot of, I do analysis of all the deals that have been lost in these multifamily deals. And I asked the sponsor this one thing. I say, hey, if you would hit your plan perfectly, meaning you got the rent, the rent, the rental increases that you projected, let's say it was 3%. Your insurance had stayed, you know, approximately about the same cost, um, or, or even if it had gone up, uh, you had, you had. Did 95% plus occupancy. You ran your property management there. And I asked the same question and only thing that changes is the debt. Would you still have lost your property? And I think I've got a 99% response. Yeah, like it was insurance. It was of course the debt. It was you know, lack of rent growth. It was you know, you uh, know we weren't maybe running as well as we could have or should have or didn't hire the right group like you guys to run it. But the end of the day like things really slowed down. But even if we hit all those perfect. Except for the debt piece, the debt piece was still, still the overwhelming number. So in my mind that debt flow, we have to discipline ourselves to get out of it when the, when the, things are so hot and so high. Right. And or fix it for 10 years. I mean you, the hard part is unless you were like a multi billion dollar let's say group that can negotiate the banks with all of your assets and fix it. A lot of the banks were just, weren't willing to do that. And. But if you can fix it for a 10 year term, then you can remain. So that's my part. And so our solution is an installment. So with the trust, I'll give you a case study on this. We had a client, it was like 20, 21. They sold it a car wash in San Diego. They built it for 4 million. They're developers, by the way. That's their number. One way they make money is they develop it. Well, within a year and a half, the value went to 13 million. Right. And so it didn't make any sense for them to buy a $13 million asset and that same marketplace take on all this debt when they already knew it was high. So they were either going to pay the tax or use our strategy. And what was cool is we paid off all of their debt, we diversified all of their wealth and, and we deferred all their tax. And then the money sat in Schwab and we went mostly into two real estate debt positions. Okay. Um, and we got mostly double digit returns, all tax deferred. Bought some hotels at a discount because there were some hotels that were kind of, you know, just recovering after Covid and all that stuff. So we got some deals there and we've been this waiting pattern really for the last three and a half, four years. And we're like, okay, let's just wait now. Now we're finally seeing the values of land start to decrease substantially enough to make sense to go back back in. Our strategy allows you to still defer the tax and still buy and still be a developer, all tax deferred. So it's kind of like a self directed ira, like you set this, this thing up, it comes in, it can go in and out, all tax deferred. Um, anyways, this is why we do what we do. But I'm curious, have you ever heard of something like that, Ryan? Um, and not having to use the 1031.

Speaker B: Yes. Actually, I was just on the phone with a potential future client. I was talking to them, talking to him about DSTs as opposed to just the 1031 that someone else had told him about. And I was like, well, you know, if, if you don't, if there's nothing else. And walking, uh, through the same strategy, you just went over and I was like, there's a way to do this. Over time, there's a way to do this. It you Know, even if part of it went to the dst, part of it went in. You know, we can, we can make, be as creative as we want. Yeah, I mean those, those solutions, those solutions just aren't as well known and, and, and really wish that they were. Mostly because, I mean you worked at Marcus like it's, it's better for us just to transact. Right. As opposed to, as opposed to yank it. But um, yeah, I mean our, our, our position is more of a more advisory, consultative to where, to where less about the commission, more, more about the long term, long term game with our people. Um, nothing wrong with that transaction has a, you know, has a place. But um, but Yeah, I mean DSTs are an amazing, they're an amazingly creative tool, um, especially with the right people that know how to use them. Um, and, and I mean you mentioned swab and I've, I've talked to a couple other people, uh, in that world, um, that are doing it, you know, billions of dollars worth worth of DST transactions right now.

Speaker A: Yep, absolutely. And just be, just clarify everyone too, because DST has two different ones. There's a Delaware statutory trust, which is known as a 1031. And there's a deferred sales trust, which is when I was referring to, which is an installment. So with the trust that allows for businesses, Bitcoin, real estate, and it can also sell save a failed 1031. And then. Ryan's exactly right. Sometimes we do, uh, a three part. Like we had a Texas deal, six million. Did a partial Delaware 1031, Delaware Statuary Trust, a partial deferred sales trust, one that we do. And a partial regular 1031. And so you can have a hammer, a screwdriver.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: A saw. Like you need different tools to solve different parts of what you're trying to accomplish. And that's really the key here. Like have a three dimensional type of approach for investing tax, uh, uh, cash flow, tax flow, debt flow, and also a three dimensional type of way for moving to the next one. But I think the most important thing I've learned in this, Ryan, from the 08 crash, and let's call this the 2025, 2026, you know, multifamily, uh, downturn. Right. I don't know if you want to call it a crash, but maybe it is eventually consider that it's time. You got to have time on your side and you got to have the ability to have some liquidity on your side and to get out of debt. Like if, and I would say I'd uh, Say in that order, right. Get out of, you know, time or liquidity and debt. And if you can get that in your favor, check, check, check. Man, you're way stronger leverage position than just the opposite. No liquidity, no. Timing's not on your side. It's having to stay in debt. You're kind of, you're kind of, you know, handcuffed in that marketplace. People want to learn more, go to capitalgainstaxlutions.com it's capitalgains tax solutions dot com. Okay, let's keep going here. Right. Talk about Missouri. That deal that you're working on. It's built to rent. Talk about any other deals that you're working on that maybe, you know, if an accredited investor wanted to, uh, you know, work with you, Ryan, out of Indianapolis or different deals you're working on. What does that look like?

Speaker B: Yeah, so, uh, the one in Missouri is 242unit. Uh, we're working with the city. Uh, it's a, it's a blue collar distribution, um, transportation distribution. Um, town Lebanon. Um, and it is, it's a three year project, three phases. Right now we're in phase one. Um, uh, that'll be 50, 50 total buildings, 100 total units. Um, we're expecting that to be done in about 18 months. Return on that is projected IRR at about 18.5 to 20%. Um, if you're interested, you know, reach out, you know, give me a call. Let's have a conversation. The, the other thing we're doing around here, we're, we're working on a new concept, um, within the industrial space, um, in some of our growth markets right now. I'll be rolling that out on our website. Um, don't want to deep dive that quite yet publicly, but, um, yeah, it is an industrial play. Um, it, it, you know, it's meeting the market needs. Um, I think projected returns on that are, you know, right in that 17 to 19 range right now. Um, until we get, you know, until we get a few things locked down. Um, can't really expand on that. But it is a. Yeah, it is a small, small bay. Industrial.

Speaker A: Love it. Love industrial. Yeah. And I love the builder rent concept is duplexes, right? That's what you're building there in Missouri. Uh, yeah. And then, and then you say three, three year project to build and get all fully, you know, mostly rented out. And then, uh, and then do you plan to sell it in three to five years or just continue to hold? What's kind of the general.

Speaker B: So that particular, that, that particular Is that's actually the one in. The one in Missouri is actually both. Because we're working, we're working really closely with the city. The city specifically said they wanted us to help answer affordable housing product need that they have. So we're very purposeful in that we're building them all in a similar way. They'll have their own colors and everything on the outside, but some of them are going to be available for sale. So if you bought, you know, I mean say you bought 20 of them and you wanted to sell five, you could technically do that. Um, the city wanted us to be able to provide that community with both things they could own and things they could rent. So. So right now, um, we're answering that need and, and we're planning on operating phases two and phases three. Um, potentially, you know, could be some tiff dollars in that. Um, and then phase, phase one is going to be mostly all, all sales. But you know, plan B for us is, is to rent them, um, get

Speaker A: them to give you a little, little tax tip that you may or may not know. But uh, one of the best, most flexible ways to structure these types of deals is an LLC tax as a partnership because you have multiple partners, right. And then you can assign your interest as an example to uh, trust. And as you sell in tranches like those first 20 or whatever, even though you're paying off the debt, the tax is still deferred. And I've worked with developers in the past and then eventually you sell out of all 240 and you have this pile of cash. But it's all in an installment sale, right? Versus having to try to, uh, typically you cannot 1031 unless the whole entity moves and all the partners move all at once. And so this is a nice way to strategically exit in tranches yet still maintain the tax deferral along the way. Just, um, a little bonus tip, you know, on there. Um, and usually we don't geek out so much, but your CCIM and your background with management and development and investments is kind of unique here. Um, that being said, ah, any other, uh, you know, just thoughts on the market or things that you're seeing, like what's your sense of where uh, we're at? Anything else you want to add before we go to the lightning round?

Speaker B: Sure. I think one of the things that um, didn't totally surprise me, but if you were watching, if you're watching blackrock and they're. When they were exiting, they were exiting last year out of, you know, their big sync SFR Uh, portfolio. They were, they were building up cash and then they, you know, they went through some fundraises. And then this year, you know, everybody was expecting more people to start buying that commercial asset, the distress stuff. And instead of buying them, they're just going straight for the loans. They're just cutting, cutting equity straight out. I mean, I, I think, like, once I saw that, I was like, okay, this, this, this is really the, the, this was really the wave that was being created between, you know, 22 and, and 24. Is, is somebody coming in and just saying, well, you know, I don't really want to deal with all the equity people. I'll just buy the note. And when it, you know, when, when we foreclose and we've got the asset. So just keeping in mind that that strategy is out there and that, you know, there are people that use it, know about it, use it, and they, they just use it when the market presents the opportunity.

Speaker A: Interesting. And you're saying specifically they're doing it with like, like retail or office, industrial, um, and multifamily. Imagine blackrock.

Speaker B: Yeah. The, some of the sources that I've been reading, they were, they're buying, they're going straight for the notes, the distress loans.

Speaker A: Yeah, we need to stress notes basically anywhere in the commercial world, whether it be multifamily barge or retail or industrial office, it doesn't really matter. They're, they're just like, let's just go straight for the notes because we think they don't have the ability to do the capital calls for their investors that's dried up and, and the banks may or may not want to have to deal with it. So let's just, you know, we'll buy it and we'll wait. We know there's enough equity in the deal to service our note or at least to recover our note. But hopefully there's some extra layover and we'll get the bonus on top of that. Is that a fair summary?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, they're essentially using that as a way to realize a corrected value. I mean, they're correcting valuation through that acquisition process. Yeah.

Speaker A: Fascinating. Thank you for sharing. That's a good insight and I guess it's good to pay attention. Right. Like, if BlackRock is getting out of SFR last year. Right. You might say, okay, it's like a, like kind of fall Warren Buffett a little bit. Right. Be like, okay, M. Yeah, there's. They know something. You know, how can I, how can I de. Risk my, My, um, my positions in sfr Right. And so. But that being said, too, every deal and every market specific, right? I mean, you're building these duplex bdr, so it's not that simple. But. But okay, that being said, um, let's move to the lightning round. You ready, Ryan?

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: All right. Maybe the number one book you recommended the most in the past year.

Speaker B: Obstacles away.

Speaker A: Excellent. Question number two. Uh, what are you most curious about right now?

Speaker B: Most curious about right now? How the market. How the market is going to continue to create wealth, uh, in a much more healthy way where people are less stressed.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And given AI and all the things that are going on there too. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's just. It's. This world is a different world right now. Uh, next question number one. Leadership quote or theme that you strive to live by?

Speaker B: A ship with no port for. For a ship with no port, no wind is favorable.

Speaker A: Oh, that's good. I like that.

Speaker B: By Seneca.

Speaker A: Okay, excellent. Question number four. Top way you're using AI right now.

Speaker B: I actually have built M tools for financial analysis, and then I have my own executive assistant built into my AI.

Speaker A: Excellent. Last, uh, question, and we'll wrap it up. Uh, after all your success helping all the people you helped, uh, what's the best way that you keep a mindset of stewardship over ownership?

Speaker B: Oh, man. I mean, life's just so short that. That it really is about the relationships and the value you bring. Um, I've just found so much more. It's so much more fun to. Sure, you want to count money and that's points, but it's just way more fun to engage with people and. And walk with them wherever they are, meet them where they are, walk with them where they are. On the journey. Um, there's always opportunities to make money. The biggest thing with making money is you just got to know what you have to mentally know what to say. No. No to. Um, yeah, I mean, adding value and finding ways to just improve, you know, improve the. The relationship people have with real estate by. By creating proper plans, um, assessing the thing. Clearly, um, be being proactive, over reactive. Yeah.

Speaker A: Amazing. Ryan Caldwell, I want to thank you for your show, uh, sharing your wisdom, talking some tax flow, some cash flow, some debt flow, some 1031, some DSTs. All the above. I want to encourage you to keep using your gifts and talents to bless and help people make wealth and help with the affordable housing crisis by building and managing properties. Um, top crisis in the world and one of the top in the US and so keep doing what you're doing. For our listeners. I want to get in touch with you one last time, Ryan. What's the best place for them to find you?

Speaker B: LinkedIn or resoluterdm.com Resolute RDM Some people say resoluter DM.com Perfect.

Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you, Ryan. I also want to thank all of our listeners, our viewers, for watching or listening to another episode of the Building to Billions podcast. We're also streaming on Capital Gains Tax solutions podcast and YouTube channels, uh, where you can subscribe. And for more content like this, hey, we're on this journey with you to scale from millions to billions. We can give more all the way to help MVPs, the most vulnerable people. Like Ryan said, time is short, right? Life is short. Don't take for granted the opportunity to make an impact today. If you have a large exit, bitcoin business, real estate, um, and you're wanting to defer capital gains taxes outside the constraints of a 1031 exchange, go to capitalgains taxsolutions.com, we also have a book we came out with Kevin Henry, with Kevin Henry from Shark Tank, which is pretty cool, called Building and Capital Gains Tax Exit Plan. Appreciate you listening and watching out there and we'll talk to you again real soon. Bye now.