How Dutch's Sandwich Shop Built a Cult Following in New Jersey

Henry Kaminski Jr.: What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another Brand to Table podcast episode. I'm your host, Henry Kaminsky Jr.

, your go-to for restaurant marketing and branding. And today, guys, we got an awesome guest who will not take his foot off the pedal. We got Dutch's Sandwich Shop's founder, Amir Kamal in the house. What is going on, dude?

Amir: Guys, thank you for having me, Henry. I appreciate you ⁓ having us on. I know this has been in the works for a while, so we're both busy guys, but we made it happen. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: ⁓ my god, we were going back and forth with text messages for two months. ⁓ Amir: It's been a while. I know ⁓ I know we got introduced by a mutual friend and then ⁓ it's just been, you know, I opened up Hoboken, Hoboken's just taken off and ⁓ you know, I haven't really had time to do much, but ⁓ here we are. Let's make this work.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Well, let me let me just set the stage here real quick because I'm new to Dutch's Sandwich Shop. I've never been.

I cannot wait to go. ⁓ you got a couple locations now, so you're getting a little closer to me. You're getting a little closer to me. I'm out here in Bumblefuck Sparta.

So, you know, it's gonna be a minute before you get out here. But, you know, one thing that I noticed when I was doing my research on Dutches is you got the food. Amir: Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Henry Kaminski Jr.: You got the vibe, you got the personality, and that means a lot in this space. But a lot of times, you know, when you look at sandwich shops, they're just your typical sandwich shop.

So, my question for you is: you know, how do you describe the brand in your own words? Amir: Mm-hmm. ⁓ so Dutch is ⁓ I always wanted to open up a sandwich shop. ⁓ I was a director of food and nutrition at a hospital and ⁓ I thought I was gonna do this in my ⁓ second life when I retired and I wanted to just kinda have a leisure life.

I was ⁓ a hundred percent wrong. There's nothing leisurely about opening up a business, about running a business. It is ⁓ stressful a hundred percent of the time, you know, I wake up. To go to the bathroom and I get text messages that just I can't go back to bed.

And so, you know. but I love it. I know I thrive in it. ⁓ making making ⁓ food for people is just what I love to do.

⁓ when people give me feedback that just, you know, it's made their day. It's it's it's a hundred percent why we do this every morning, every day we wake up. you know, feet are about to explode because I've been on them all day, but You know, we we grind every day. It's it's ⁓ it's a hustle and ⁓ you know, enjoy it enjoy it a lot.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: So so take me back before Dutch has existed, right? Like who was Amir before the sandwich shop? Amir: Mm-hmm.

Mir was a clean shaven guy, ⁓ grew up in New York City, ⁓ met a girl in college and moved out to Jersey, ⁓ got a job at a hospital, ⁓ worked my way up that system. ⁓ and that's how I became, you know, involved in healthcare and and ⁓ was big ⁓ you know big proponent of of of customer service, ⁓ always putting out fires. ⁓ You know, my job as a director was to or, you know, director of patient services was to go to all the h to to the patients and and see them and make sure, you know, ⁓ and really they only want to see you when you ⁓ when there's something wrong, you know, not never to tell you that everything's going so well.

And so you always have to kinda go in ⁓ with a smile and be ready to put out fires. Be ready to make sure that you can go above and beyond at all costs. And that's kind of what I like to push onto my Henry Kaminski Jr.: Right.

Amir: staff as well. You know, we like you said, we're in Jersey, ⁓ New York, New Jersey, th there's a a thousand sandwich shops that are pretty comparable to what I do, right? And so who cares if we're the best or one A or one B or one C? You know, if you don't get that customer service, if you don't get ⁓ that feeling of being wanted, of being, you know, cared for, ⁓ that's kind of why ⁓ what makes us go above and beyond and that's Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Doesn't it? Mm. Amir: You know, really what our success has ⁓ thrived on, ⁓ and why we are, you know, about to open up our third location. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Well, look, I gotta ask what hospital? 'Cause I came up in the hospital game before I got into this. Amir: So I ⁓ part of Atlantic Health Systems. ⁓ I was at Overlook Medical Center in Southern New Jersey.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, yeah, yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Overload. Okay. So I was in Hackensack. I was in Hackensack for eight years.

So I because if you said Hackensack, I would have died right here. I would have been like. Amir: I have a lot of good friends that are actually, you know, in in that world. We can have a beer and talk about that another time.

Yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.: I was like, I was like, we're we were probably in the calf together, you know? But all right, so fast forward, when did you get bit by, you know, the shop bug?

And what made you say, all right, I'm actually gonna invest in this and actually take my career in this direction? So walk me through that. Amir: it was kind of you know, things just happened very fast. There was really no plan in place.

⁓ as I had mentioned, I was a director, I was in the hospital world, left that world right before COVID, ⁓ went into sales, selling to hospitals and schools. But as you can imagine, as covet hit, that sector, that world just was thrown into a whirlwind. And ⁓ I was also kind of thrown into a whirlwind. I hadn't, you know, my career that I had just invested the last ten, you know, to fifteen years in, ⁓ moving up that ladder just kind of got thrown ⁓ to the side.

And so ⁓ always wanted to open up a sandwich shop. ⁓ I think one thing I was taught in that moment, ⁓ was that we're not promised tomorrow, right? ⁓ W there's no ⁓ guarantee that I can do this in my fifties or I'll be even be here in my fifties. And so ⁓ you know, do what you love now.

⁓ why wait? ⁓ and so ⁓ that and the housing market kind of ⁓ I was you know, we invest in property, but at that time ⁓ it was just not the right thing to do. And so ⁓ we decided to you know, what was the next best thing? I I I had asked You know, my mother actually to be honest, my mother is my investor.

And ⁓ I asked her, I said, Do you trust me? Do you believe in in me? And she said, you know, I I a hundred percent believe in you and she she was the initial person who kinda l gave me the the funds to kind of go after what I believed in and ⁓ none of this would would even be possible without her, to be honest. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: That's awesome. So you got that motivation, you got that inspiration, you got that purpose behind you. And now I understand why this brand is taking off the way it is. It's got some, it's got some heart to it.

It's got some some ⁓ you know, some fire behind it. So let me ask you this. I read that, you know, Dutch's was inspired by your love of like the New York City bodega culture. Amir: Mm-hmm.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: So what did that culture mean to you w as you were growing up? Amir: so so Dut first Dutch's was my dog. ⁓ Dutch was ⁓ an old English bulldog who I had for about fifteen years.

Was my best friend. passed away a few years ago, ⁓ unfortunately. But ⁓ at the time when we had thought about making a name for Dutch's, Dutch's Sandwich Shop just was the first thing that came to my head. And I said, you know, this sounds really actually pretty decent for a sandwich shop.

And so Henry Kaminski Jr.: Sorry. Amir: We kinda just went with it. I did the logo.

⁓ you know, di pretty much put every ounce of of effort that I could ⁓ from morning until two or three in the morning. and ⁓ you know, it kinda just it it just kind of took off on its own. ⁓ sorry, what was the original question? This happens to me a lot.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm. The question was, you know, how did the the bodega culture influence the growth? Yeah, or the the inspiration.

Amir: The bodega. So you know, ⁓ growing growing up in New York City was ⁓ always coming home at two, three in the morning, ⁓ stopping in at Delhi's, you know, ⁓ maybe inebriated, maybe not, ⁓ but ⁓ you know, was always ⁓ able to have some of the best food around and ⁓ chopped cheeses, you know, cheesesteaks, New York style, ⁓ where you know, chicken cullets, you know just Things that we grew up on and and things that, you know, I I was blessed to have some of the best even just your your small, you know, Asian supermarkets just pumping out fire sandwiches that ⁓ we would get, you know, all me and my friends would always co get together, hang out and get Caesar wraps and get, you know, all sorts of fun things and ⁓ just traveling the world, being able to ⁓ go to other towns as well and Eating, you know, other people's cuisines ⁓ has always, you know, the muffaletta is a New Orleans inspired sandwich.

And, you know, unless you kinda go down there, a lot of people don't really know what that sandwich is about. And so, we I try to bring all these fun things ⁓ to Dutch's. ⁓ we're, you know, a fast casual gourmet sandwich shop that pumps out a lot of volume, but we do it well and we do it right. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Right? Yeah. Let me ask you this. You know, Dutchess has a very clear personality to it, I could tell, right?

And it doesn't feel corporate at all, you know? Was that, you know, was that intentional from day one or was that something that it it just it just happened? Amir: It's it's very n I mean, you kinda go in there. I'm trying to move a little way ⁓ y you go in there and it feels really homey.

You know, there's things on the shelves and there's that's just kind of me. ⁓ in a nutshell, you know, I a guy with a may I may have ADHD, I may not have ADHD, but like you can kinda tell, you know, I'm all over the place and sometimes my shop reflects that and I try not to we try to make sure, you know, that it's not you know, looking cluttered and it looks ⁓ you know y you know, we always, you know, put a hundred percent into everything we do. We every art piece of art, every ⁓ book on the shelf is, you know, ⁓ we want you to come in and and pull that book off and and really, you know, go through things, take a look.

⁓ someone actually stole my book, so we're we we we need another one. But I had a a book from ⁓ one of a he's ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Jesus. Amir: Honestly a mentor to me, without ⁓ did we?

I kinda yeah, we froze a little bit. All right. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Real quick, Amir, your your video went out.

All right. ⁓ there we go. Perfect. Perfect.

All right. So just go back ten seconds. Your book, your Well, your ⁓ so you so tell me, you you were mentioning before that one of your books got stolen in the store. Amir: Sorry.

Yeah, I said something about hand gesture and then I think So ⁓ we you know, we have some cameras and we we went back, but yeah, one of my books got stolen. ⁓ a guy who's ⁓ a mentor, ⁓ Stratus Morphogan, ⁓ unknowingly, you know, ⁓ I've read his book before and ⁓ it's to be a disruptor, ⁓ how do you do something in the industry that's you know, been going around for decades and decades, like how do we do something different? And ⁓ you know, kinda Dutch is just my way of bringing something different.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Jesus. Mm. Amir: you know, to the sandwich world.

⁓ we we we're big into community, we're big into hip hop, we're big into I mean just music in general to be honest. Like I'm an eighties baby. I grew up on ABBA and all that stuff. And ⁓ you know, we you you that the honey honey is a sandwich.

You know, we have I have little girls, you know, there's the taffiti and the tacka, you know, from Moana and there's all just little Henry Kaminski Jr.: Okay. Amir: You know, my Titanic sandwich, ⁓ my Titanic wrap is iceberg lettuce and pepper jack cheese and it was on rosemary facaccia and there's all like little treasure chests that, you know, you know, people ask me how do I come up with it? Sometimes it's the first thing that just comes to my head and sometimes, you know, there's a lot more thought that goes into it.

But, you know, everything is done with love and we we really care about, you know, the customers and the sandwiches that go out. Henry Kaminski Jr.: So that's that brings me right to my next question, which is when someone walks into Dutch's for the first time, right? What do you want them to feel before they even place an order?

Amir: Mm-hmm. So I always am a big customer ⁓ a big proponent of always greeting the customer the second they walk in. You know, you if you greet a customer, you're you're making eye contact with that person. You know, have you been here before?

Is there anything that you you know, some people know about us and they're like they come in with a purpose now and they know what they want, but then there's people who've just walked in and they have no idea who we are and you know, let us guide you ⁓ to find what you're looking for. ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah.

Amir: And ⁓ you know, that's really I have customers that when I see their name call, you know, I Yep, Clark, do you want a big fat Greek rap? You know, right off the bat, like I already know exactly what they want. And so ⁓ you know, that's just ⁓ that's a big reason of of why I think we're successful, because people feel, you know, yeah, and anybody can go and spend their money anywhere, but why not do it Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Amir: at a place where you feel welcome and loved and part of the community and, you know, all that good stuff. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. So as you're growing this business, right, what's the hardest part of keeping this vibe authentic?

Because I see a lot of people as they grow that authenticity starts to dissolve. And that's that's not a good thing, in my opinion. I'm I'm a big brand guy. So you know, when when I when I see a a brand like you growing, you know, at a at a pace that you're growing.

Amir: Yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.: I get nervous. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm like, you know, is the fifth and sixth shop gonna be like and feel like the first one? Amir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. so, you know, infrastructure, you know, you have to build a good base, right?

⁓ I came from that hospital world. I came from a world where ⁓ if I was gone tomorrow, that show needs to still continue to run. And so you know, not gatekeeping, you know, kind of training your staff and teaching your staff how to run an effective business ⁓ with or without you. ⁓ trying to teach putting procedures in place.

It's a lot honestly, it's a lot easier said than done. Like on like ⁓ you know, I can talk all this great game and my cut my workers could be watching this right now and be like, what? But ⁓ at the end of the day, you know, ⁓ it it is tough. You know, dealing with staff is probably the hardest part of it.

⁓ they come in, they go. you know, s I've people have said, you know, hire fast and fire faster. ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Well yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amir: Until you find just the right mold of people that just stay with you.

You know when you have someone good. ⁓ but really, ⁓ paying your workers, man. Like you know, you pay your workers well and they will stay with you and they will you know, it's easier said than done as well. You know, that's you know, you have to make money to spend your money.

And so, but you know, if you make your guys happy, they will work for you. ⁓ this is war. I equivalate all my jobs to war. And if we don't, you know, if your guys aren't You know, if they don't got your back, you're done.

You know what I mean? Like you're you're like ⁓ and so, you know, I know certain guys when they're calling out, they're on their deathbed, right? And then there's some guys that you know that like you know, you you you gotta you just sit down with them and have that conversation, you know, 'cause ⁓ my other boss used to tell me, you know, you either ⁓ you you work them up or you work them out, you know, and so like ⁓ you it's ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: You're dead, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Amir: I I and I always I'm a I'm a believer of giving people second and third chances.

You know, ⁓ I you I'm sure we've all had a time in our lives where ⁓ we were going through some things or things didn't go the way we wanted them to go or we were overthinking, you know, X, Y, and Z. But ⁓ you know, putting procedures in place, making sure you have infrastructure, ⁓ building a great team, all of that, you know Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm. Amir: Think of like Chick fil A, right?

Like, ⁓ they have these young kids working for them and they are methodical, they are, you know, the customer service. They are taught for two to three weeks, you know, a lot of businesses don't have that luxury, but they're taught before they even go out there to you know, every customer is gold. You know, you treat them like, you know, they are the only customer out there and they will be a repeat customer. And so, ⁓ You know, that's it's your you know, your concerns are also my concerns, you know, I'm not gonna lie, I'm also human, right?

But ⁓ that's the name of the game, baby, right? That's how we do it. You know, there's if if it was easy, everybody would be successful, right? So ⁓ that's life.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk sandwiches now, right? What makes a sandwich a Dutch sandwich?

Like I really need to understand this because everybody's raving about ⁓ You know, it's funny. You ⁓ I was looking at your Instagram not too long ⁓ this morning and a lot of the influencers ⁓ that have come into your spot, a handful of them, I've all been I've been working with them behind the scenes with other restaurants and stuff of mine. And ⁓ you got some really good people. Amir: Mm-hmm.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: working with you on that front. But let's go back to the initial question. What makes a sandwich a Dutch sandwich?

Amir: I kind of touched on it before, but it's honestly it's really the love and the effort that, you know, not just me now, but my staff also puts into it. ⁓ our chick Henry Kaminski Jr.: And I hear story. I that was that's what grabbed me.

Like I feel like every sandwich has a story behind it. Amir: Mm-hmm. And we have a lot of sandwiches, right? And and there's times where I come up ⁓ with some sandwiches and I I shoot them out to my staff and they're like, What's this?

And I was like, Another sandwich. And they're like, ⁓ my god, another one. But ⁓ you know, there's certain sandwiches. The Dutch Caesar has been ⁓ the newest sandwich.

It's maybe about eight, nine months old. ⁓ my man Eric Hammer ⁓ is the Caesar connoisseur and he came to my spot a few years ago. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Okay. Amir: Had the Dutch daddy, had a another sandwich, loved them, and then I gave him my Caesar sandwich and he said it was a very good Caesar wrap. But amongst the greats that he's had, ⁓ it sat, you know, not it wasn't bad, but it wasn't like up to where I, you know, but I I wasn't shooting for that at that time either. I just wanted to make a regular ⁓ Caesar wrap and just make it well.

⁓ But then there's the dog in me, and ⁓ I always need to kind of Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ha ha. Amir: try to be, you know, the best or one of the best or s you know, s ⁓ up in that category. And ⁓ we came up with the Dutch Caesar where ⁓ we had our house sauce, we added pickles to it and it's chicken cutlets and it's the most amazing Caesar wrap out there and like it has gone super viral. ⁓ all of our breakfast is on ⁓ on our brioche buns.

That's kind of what sets us apart from everyone else. Everyone uses Kaiser ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Amir: We are pretty much the first guys. ⁓ you know, I'm sure there's been others, but we really were the trendsetters ⁓ in the brioche game. And ⁓ you know, ⁓ we we put love into everything we do. ⁓ there's a sandwich may go through a few different betas, like, you know, I've I've added or tweaked things along the lines to to make it even better, you know, there's there's nothing like I just don't make something and then that's it.

So ⁓ we always are trying to ⁓ tiptoe the line of you know if you want a basic sandwich you can get a basic sandwich but you know if you want something really ⁓ creative and delicious you know that's that's what we're really known for as well. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm. Mm-hmm.

So man, you tee me up with these questions. Like this is like Kobe and Shaq over here. So, so yeah, dude, dude. So a lot of creativity behind your sandwiches, right?

And when I when I think of that, you know, because I spend a lot of time in the economics of restaurants, especially when the the marketing that I do for restaurants, it's it's heavily tied to the economics of the business, right? And I say to myself, when I hear a Amir: That's right, baby. Ache and bake, baby. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: A creative sandwich that constantly changes or changes every once in a while. It doesn't even matter, right? I go, ⁓ I like start to get hives because I like operationally, that sounds like a freaking disaster, right? So how do you balance the creativity with the operational simplicity?

So A, you're not driving your staff crazy, but you're also not, you know, ba ⁓ Amir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Catfishing your guests too, because they're they're gonna order a sandwich and be like, ⁓ it tastes different now.

What the hell'd you do? Amir: Yeah, ⁓ when I say like when I when I tweak things, I I mean like ⁓ so my what's the dill sandwich used to be chicken cutlet, ⁓ provolone, ⁓ bacon, chopped up kosher dill, shredded lettuce. ⁓ when I found Havardi Dill ⁓ cheese, ⁓ that was just an easy upgrade to make to that sandwich. ⁓ so I'm not tweaking things that are going to ⁓ really throw you off.

⁓ another ⁓ you know, my drunken chicken ⁓ used to be basic. ⁓ and then we went to garlic bread, you know. So I I we ended up doing garlic butter on the bread and we toasted it and made it a nice garlic bread vessel. And so ⁓ just things like that.

Things that I think will elevate it to an umami point, but nothing that will ⁓ be like, What the hell? This didn't have tomatoes on it last time or Henry Kaminski Jr.: Got it. And you and your and your food cost kind of stays steady because that that gets me concerned too.

You're changing the ingredients and you're not you're not skimping. So, you know, the the cost the food cost, I'm like, ⁓ is he you know, where where is the threshold? Amir: ⁓ I mean food cost is always elev is constantly, you know, rising and and and going back and forth. ⁓ a lot of my sandwiches are just kind of ⁓ mixing and matching, you know.

⁓ taking something that's on here. I'm I'm always over like utilizing something. If if there's something that's just on one sandwich, most likely that's just a special or I'm taking that off. ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Amir: Because like you said, ⁓ no the you know, if you're buying something and it's going to waste or it's going into garbage, you know, that's not that's not the point of the game.

So ⁓ we're always looking to ⁓ you know, use everything that we're do I mean, every s every little piece of you know, whether it's chopping off the ends of breads and saving those for croutons. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Echo No.

Amir: Or or if there is leftover bread, you know, sometimes we we don't really have that. But when we do have leftover bread, you know, everything is made into f homemade fresh croutons. ⁓ so you know, I've always been taught to, you know, when you slaughter the cow, you use every little bit of it. And so ⁓ that's just kind of where, you know, where we are.

⁓ could we get better? A hundred percent. ⁓ I think that comes with ⁓ you know, more time and more Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Amir: bodies, the ability to do those things, you know, when you kind of work. You know, I used to work with a two man crew and then it was a three man crew and then, you know, it it's gotten bigger and bigger and the operations gotten bigger. And so now I see or you know, over the l different locations, I'm seeing I'm overseeing, you know, people of all different, you know, generations and races and ⁓ you know Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Mm-hmm. ⁓ huh. Amir: It's it's tough, it's not easy. But that was something that I learned in the hospital world to manage ⁓ different types of personalities and and kind of bring everybody together under one roof.

⁓ it's just a lot harder when it's your money and it's your your your you know you know what I mean? Henry Kaminski Jr.: I'm with you on that one, dude. I'm with you on that one.

You know, it's funny because we both come from that world prior to getting into entrepreneurship and business ownership. And it's funny. It's funny what that world teaches you and prepares you for, whether you knew whether you knew it or not, you know, when you get into your own business, how that structure is so helpful. So, you know, now we talk about scaling multiple locations, SOPs.

Amir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: You know, all of these things to help grow, right?

Because you can't be all over the place. Otherwise you're gonna be, you know, you're gonna be a sunken ship. So so you started out in Montclair, correct? How long were you there for?

Amir: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I'm still in Montclair, but I've been there for three ⁓ a little over three and a half years now. Yep. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Yeah. Okay, so when did you feel ready for location number two? Amir: ⁓ kind of when we were searching, when I started searching for it, so a little bit of last year. So I was about two and a half years into it.

⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: And was there an epiphany there? Like did you just wake up and be like, I want number two? Or Amir: No, I mean, everybody's you know you know, I know a lot of people have an a a lot of amazing sandwiches, but you know, every single day I I have my customers come to me and say, you know, this is the best breakfast sandwich I've ever had in my life.

You know, this is and it's not just one sandwich. It's I can say that on a a an array of different sandwiches that people come to me and so when you kinda, you know, ⁓ when you there's Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm. Mm.

Amir: There's Talercios out there and there's you know there's a lot of great spots. And when you hear that you're amongst the best, you know, from time and time again, it starts to, you know, give you confidence. ⁓ and so I've I've I was amongst the the assumption that, you know, if if my sandwiches are the best in Montclair, then they're gonna be the best in Hoboken as well. And and really it's ⁓ I'm it's it's my breakfast that really sets me apart.

It's my breakfast that really has put me on. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Okay. Amir: My my lunch is really amazing too, but my breakfast, you know, I have when people think about breakfast sandwiches, they think about your tailor ham, your sausage, and your bacon, egg and cheese on a roll or a bagel, and that's really it.

You know. ⁓ my Dutch Daddy is a pastrami bacon, egg and cheese with our special sauce. Our Blame Canada's Canadian bacon, egg and cheese with sweet chili, the hash daddy's two hash browns egg and cheese with our special sauce. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amir: The Truff Daddy is a collab we kinda do with Truff with its ⁓ sausage and bacon, egg and cheese with Truff hot sauce.

⁓ I mean I can go on and on and on and on. and so like people come in and they're like, This was unreal. And so you know, we're a little on the pricier side. I'm not gonna lie, people have said, ⁓ man, twelve, fifteen dollars for a breakfast sandwich.

Like, yeah, I mean, for your basic one is it's ten bucks, but at the end of the day, you know, my rent is high. Every single worker wants twenty dollars plus an hour. they want benefits, they want this, they want that. Like, how do I pay for that?

Right. So, ⁓ you know, you I and but I try to also put out a great product. ⁓ something that you're not gonna nobody's ever had something amazing and been like, I paid too much for that. You know, ⁓ you you you when you have something that's amazing, you will pay double for it, to be honest.

And so ⁓ that's why I'm a big believer, ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Amir: If if I'm you know, we all get those days where I you know, I've had sometimes with this new venture in Hoboken I've had thirty plus minute wait times and like it's very frustrating to me. But if we put out a an amazing product, people will be okay with waiting for that. You know, when you wait and then it's like mediocre or it's not good, then you're never going back, right? And so, ⁓ that's that's really kind of my biggest fear that ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Mm-hmm. Right. You're never going back. Right?

Amir: you know, we're growing maybe too fast without ⁓ the base and the infrastructure, you know, maybe that's there, but you know, we we haven't been able to build the army yet or, you know, we're we don't have the base to train the guys or you know, and so, ⁓ because that's kind of what happened in Hoboken, you know, I I th if we grew at the pace we grew in Montclair, this wouldn't be an issue, but ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Amir: You know, people were kinda ready to knock down our our doors, within the first week, which is an amazing thing.

But you gotta be ready for it. You know, you have to be you gotta be ready to to you know, you you go back to the drawing board, you kinda ⁓ you know, put the pen to the paper and see what works and what doesn't work and and then you and we go from there. And so that's kind of what I've learned. ⁓ I've learned kind of what you said.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amir: ⁓ my third location and anything moving forward is going to be an express module.

So we're trimming down the menu tremendously. ⁓ I know I can't scale Dutch's to where I want it to be with what it is. And so ⁓ to answer your question, the mother ships will be in Montclair and Hoboken, where you can get all your different sandwiches. But anything else moving forward will be an express module that will have just the top.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm. Amir: sellers and you know, from there I can have a smaller inventory, you know, smaller overhead, smaller all that and ⁓ be able to teach and train a lot easier and and go from there. So Henry Kaminski Jr.

: That's awesome. Well well, last question in this category, what scares you the most about growing this business? Amir: ⁓ you know, failing. You know, just like anything.

Yeah, I got three kids and a wife and ⁓ you know, I I try to make sure that she's on board with everything I do, but ⁓ you know, sometimes you make a decision that you just think is the best and ⁓ you know, maybe it is and maybe it's not. And so, you know, failing is definitely ⁓ is is, you know, one thing, so the economy, ⁓ trying to build Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm. Amir: what I'm building now in the climate, ⁓ is not easy.

you know, you have friends of the industry that may not replicate the success that you're replicating and, you know, that's tough as well because like how do you speak to someone about, you know, what's going on? ⁓ and so you know, just trying to be mindful of all that as well. But ⁓ yeah, you know, I I I guess really Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Amir: Failing is is is something that I just don't like doing. I know a lot of people don't like it, but ⁓ always trying to put out the best product p possible, ⁓ and just making everybody happy. Henry Kaminski Jr.: You don't you don't strike me as somebody that fails often.

You know, I I say this because I, you know, we the first time we're meeting each other, really right now, you know. I mean, we a bunch of chat, bunch of text messages over the last couple months. But I mean, the first time I'm sitting here and I'm listening to you and I get this vibe that like, I don't f failure's not an equation for you. It it it's gonna, you're gonna figure this out.

Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: One way or another. And if you make a wrong turn, you you just course correct, right?

I mean, my philosophy too, ⁓ because I I I've been in business for 16 years now, you know, and did I make every right turn? No, you know, sometimes I made ass backwards decisions that sent me back 15 miles, and I'm like, shit, you know, now I gotta, you know. Amir: We just go back, you know, and mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: backtrack and and and get back on the horse and you know a lot of time, money, energy wasted. But like I never accepted failure as an option. It was like, I'm just gonna keep moving.

And you strike me as like the same type of guy. So I, you know, I'm I'm I'm not here to be a Tony Robbins to you by any means, but like I just wanna I kind of want to just like clear the air a little bit because a lot of times like Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: People are afraid of s failing.

I'm afraid of failing too. Like, but I always say to myself, like, okay, that was a shitty res that was a shitty decision, but it's gone. I can't do anything about it. I just have to make the next right decision and I get on with it.

So I I just want to share that with you because I feel like yeah, you're gonna make a di you're gonna make mistakes in the future. We all are, right? But if we just if we have that mindset of Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: If it's only one, it doesn't define me. It just you pick up where you left off. I when I when I do interviews and stuff, people are like, ⁓ let's start over. I'm like, no, we're gonna we're gonna start where we left off.

Right. And then they're like, ⁓ you could do that? Yeah, you can, you know, and you just and you just rock with it. So I wanna get into some I wanna get into some hospitality questions before we run out time.

Because you know, people think ⁓ Amir: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: That hospitality belongs in, you know, full service restaurants, fine dining, you know, a a sandwich shop like yourself. I don't know many that focus on hospitality like you kind of do, having that, having that background that you come up with. So I want to ask you, this Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Besides, you know, greeting every customer when they come in, 'cause that's that's kind of a given, right? Where else does hospitality show up in the Dutchess shops? Amir: hm. That's a good question.

⁓ you know, just ⁓ just being kind to people, ⁓ just treating people with respect. ⁓ you know, going above and beyond, like I said, ⁓ but that's just, you know, kind of regular. ⁓ when I was in the hospital, you know, we we had these Pride Awards where ⁓ if you went above and beyond, they presented you with these awards and ⁓ you know I had quite a few. ⁓ but ⁓ these are things that I I don't really, you know, look for recognition for.

You know, it's just my mother taught me to be a respectful young man who who goes out of his way to to to help others. And ⁓ you know, I was a Boy Scout, you know, ⁓ so helping others, you know, was always part of ⁓ the mantra. Jesuit, ⁓ Xavier High Schools, Scranton ⁓ College, ⁓ University of Scranton. So, you know, helping others was always ⁓ a motto that Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Mm-hmm. Amir: I kind of live by and ⁓ I'm always trying to ⁓ I'm always connecting with other brands, you know, other wor we're trying to always promote other people, other businesses. you know, I don't you know, Dutch is hot right now, but we could not be hot tomorrow, right? And so, you know, I'm always really kind of just thankful for where we are.

try to make sure that we all kind of win and eat together. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm. Amir: you know, we're not in this just for ourselves.

And ⁓ kind of that that's really, you know, ⁓ I just I'm I'm a big believer of ⁓ you know, treating your dishwasher the same as treating the president of the the the corporation, you know, like it's just kind of ⁓ nobody's special. You know, we are all the same. We're all trying to feed, you know, some mouths and just kind of ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Right.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amir: We're doing the best that we can, right? You know.

So ⁓ people I th ⁓ you know, there's something that people love. ⁓ I get down and dirty on on Instagram. Like I will pour out my heart sometimes and like kinda let you know the day we had sometimes, you know, it's it's a hell of a day and X, Y, and Z. And you know, some people love it.

⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm. Is that therapeutic for you? Amir: Yeah, it is because, you know, at the end of the day, ⁓ some of these mistakes, you know like you you know, w the great ones know, right?

You know, these little things eat at us, right? If we didn't do things, you know, a hundred percent or we forgot ⁓ damn, that lady asked me for ketchup and I'm just remembering it now, like at two in the morning and stuff. So like ⁓ but you know, ⁓ you know it Henry Kaminski Jr.: Ha ha Amir: I feel like, you know, I say Dutch nation, like I feel like every we're all family, you know, we're all kind of connected in this journey.

⁓ it is my calling to bring Dutches to, you know, the world. And ⁓ we're about giving back to the community. We're always about connecting with the community, ⁓ as much as I can. I love to give back, ⁓ try to help out, you know, pay it forward.

⁓ I'm a big proponent of that. And so ⁓ you know, give give what God gives me and try to pass it on. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Yeah. That that's a great philosophy. I mean, you know, when when shit happens to me, I always say to myself, Well, I must have done something back then to, you know, for this to come back and bite me, you know, and and I that's just the way the world works. You know, it's very hard to explain.

But, you know, you talk about community, you talk about collabs, you talk about growth and and and awareness and stuff. And I wanna kinda get into the marketing conversation a little bit 'cause Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: This is this is a lot of what the show's about.

when we talk about social media, right? And you just said, you know, when you have your bad days, your good days, you're out there and you're giving the good, the bad, the ugly. You know, what's the role that social media plays for Dutches as you continue to grow? It it's you know, it sounds to me it's it's it's half therapy, it's half awareness, it's half, you know, there's a lot going on here.

And so you're using social media. Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Many different ways.

So what's your take on that? Amir: Mm-hmm. ⁓ so we wouldn't be as big as we we are without social media. ⁓ I think that's one of the biggest tools that a lot of businesses don't really know how to utilize properly.

not just be me being raw, but just the marketing aspect. ⁓ putting you know, I spend ⁓ you know, some money ⁓ on a marketing team to to put out good quality, ⁓ to to make sh people, you know, want to come to my restaurants, you know, ⁓ the influencer route is is huge as well. ⁓ to build those relationships. you know, those are all natural and I and I'm that's one of the things I'm super proud about.

You know, they're a lot of those relationships that I have with a lot of those influencers are a hundred percent natural. ⁓ and they're friends till this day, you know, they come in in and out of my restaurant. ⁓ we're always chit chatting. I'm always kind of trying to promote them as well.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm. Amir: ⁓ so that always I I kinda realized that really early on, like w maybe within the first two months, people reaching out and I said, All right, well this is how, you know, this is how you get a Francesca through your doors or Meg Things or ⁓ Team Taylor or Eric Hammer or, you know, all these guys and then ⁓ and then you just actually find out that they're pretty awesome people and you just become friends with them as well and you know, they hit you up and we just shoot Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Mm-hmm. Amir: shoot the shit, excuse me my language. And ⁓ you know, just you know, I've it's it's I come up with a sandwich and I reach out to a few people and I say, You wanna try this Ghibbler? It's the most amazing sandwich there is and it was like my Gibbler went super viral during Thanksgiving.

It was a it was a house made turkey sandwich on a stuffing waffle with cranberry mayo, sweet potato fries, and ⁓ melted brie in arugula. And it was like Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. God.

Thank God I'm going thank God I'm going to dinner after this because I'm fucking starving now. ⁓ that's awesome, dude. What con what type of what type of content works best for you? Amir: You're eating.

Yeah, that's that's what we do at Dutchess. So ⁓ but ⁓ you know to have that ⁓ you know, well I think ⁓ right now just putting the sandwiches out there, ⁓ but I know a lot of FaceTime content is doing well, ⁓ especially on TikTok. ⁓ and that's kinda where, you know, a lot of people you're more susceptible to going viral, I guess, on TikTok and stuff. And so ⁓ how, what's the algorithm, what h like what takes off, I have no idea.

But Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you do you plan a lot of your content or is it just like in the moment? Amir: So I used to plan a lot more. ⁓ I would have songs and I would be like, ⁓ this is gonna go to this and this is going to that ⁓ in reality you're gonna start seeing a lot more now that we're kinda getting back into the s to the thick of things, ⁓ we we like to do l a little more like movie esque videos where ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Mm. Amir: It's it's not just a sandwich. Like you like it's above and beyond. And like that's like that's kind of the next level that we're gonna take it as.

⁓ and specifically me, you know, being a lot more on camera and doing, you know, we got this like Hamilton skit that we're about to like, you know, dress as King George and we're about to put this video out. And then I have another skit where like my meat slicer. It's he's almost like an interrogation room and like we're gonna it's like he's he's like slight he's just working the slicer and it's like so like almost like you know, and I wanna build my my workers to be like characters as well, like on Instagram, like that where people are like, ⁓ my god, that's you know, X, Y, and Z and s and so like it's just it's not just about me, it's about you know, how do we build that brand?

How do we relate to people more, you know? and that's an aspect, you know, merch. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Mm.

Mm. Amir: You know, all all sorts of things that I would love to take it to the next level. ⁓ I know how to. It's just, you know, time.

Time is ⁓ crazy. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Do you do you measure your marketing to see what works, what doesn't work?

Like because I I notice a lot of restaurants don't and a lot of like shops don't. They'll say, ⁓ that video worked because it got, you know, 157,000 views, but like, did your cash register ring? Amir: Yeah. You wanna know something?

TikTok. Like if if you go to Dutch's if you just type in Dutch's Hoboken, those videos of like individual people eating a sandwich and giving a review does so much more than me putting out ⁓ you know, a video. ⁓ and y and you you know Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Yeah. Amir: you see it when it just comes on your KDS, you know, ten, fifteen times and you know, and you're just like the tickets are printing out and you're like, another one, another one. And so, ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Okay.

And it's equivalent so it's correlated to that particular TikTok or that particular reel, right? All right. Amir: Yeah. So like for instance when Eric came out to to Dutch's, you know, we've always had the Korean zombie, but he had the Korean zombie that day and ever since he ate that Korean zombie sandwich, like Hoboken cannot get enough of the Korean zombie.

And then, you know, same with that Dutch Caesar. That Dutch Caesar is just super famous in Hoboken. And, you know, ⁓ from those videos, that boosts my Montclair sales, you know, and so then it's just they all kind of feed off each other and ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Amir: You know, we've built something special. I know we've built something special and I'm just trying to ⁓ you know, people try to replicate. you know, they say that's ⁓ a form of flattery, but before they do that I kinda wanna, you know, try to see how how much I can do and and see where we can go with it. So Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Hell. Let me ask you this. This is kind of a serious question. Let's say TikTok, let's say Instagram, Facebook, everything just fucking goes puff tomorrow.

Like, how does Dutch's communicate with its customers? Amir: I mean we're still old school type of place, you know, so ⁓ you just call us on the phone and you know, ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: No, but how do you how do you get the word out? Amir: Just word of mouth.

Honestly, word of mouth is what we you know, even with you you know, social media is just a boost of word of mouth, but Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. What's your POS?

Amir: ⁓ I got a sky tab. Yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Skydam, okay.

Okay. Or do you have any email marketing at all? Do you do any of that? Okay.

Okay. Okay. Amir: We do we do email marketing, we do I mean we do all of that that stuff. Could we do it a little better?

I think we definitely could. ⁓ and we're putting that infrastructure into place. ⁓ you know, people with new positions to try to build. you know, but at the end of the day, Henry, you know, ⁓ The product is so good, it just brings people through those doors.

And like I don't need to do all that other stuff, you know. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean look at look at look at fifteen years ago, look at twenty years ago. With b you know, before yeah even before that, you know, how did how did you know Katz get his name? How did Milburn Deli get their name?

You know, they fucking put out good stuff, you know, and like Amir: Mm. Yeah. And people you know, we ⁓ like the other day, a few of the NJ Transit guys came in and they were like, This is amazing. And now every morning the new JC transit guys are coming because they s spread the word to everybody else, and then you know, hey, when you get to Hoboken, a block off the train is Dutch's sandwich shop.

You know, go go check ⁓ out. And so, you know, that's what it's about. And and that's why Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Yeah. Amir: I stress, I mean, sometimes during the weekends when it gets crazy, like you can see me get a little crazy, but you know, I stress that every sandwich goes out, you know, damn near perfect because this could be someone's first impression of us. And when people are paying money for something, they want they want what they want and they want top quality. They don't want to hear whatever excuse you're about to give them.

They don't want to hear X, and Z. They want what they want. And that's just the name of the game. And so that's that's on us to provide.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Amir: for that customer. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's awesome. You know, that that there's that pride, right? There's there's why it matters and how you stand out.

I mean, a lot of times people are like, There's a guy up here, he's like he's kind of like the soup Nazi. Like he doesn't really give a shit, you know? And Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: You know, depending on what day I wake up, you know, I say to myself, There I s I understand where he's coming from, but I also understand that that's not a good look either. You know, because he he had did something to I gotta tell you a quick story. I still go to this place. I still go to this place.

But cause it wasn't the owner now, it was this old man. The one of the ⁓ delivery guys that delivers like the milk. Amir: Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Came on a Sunday morning, it was packed. And he had the sliding glass door open and he was filling the milk. And I guess he forgot to close the sliding glass door and he went back out to come back in. And the owner's old man ripped this guy a new asshole in front of like 50 people.

I didn't go back there for like six months because I was like, that poor bastard just took such a shot in front of so many people. Amir: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: And he was, it was so nasty, Amir, right? I was like, I can't give this guy my money.

And then the he died. He died, the guy, the old man died. And I was like, all right, I'll back. You know, and I don't and I I don't mean it as a joke, but like I was so infuriated that day because I saw that, you know, and I was like, fuck this guy.

You know what I mean? He doesn't respect anybody, so why should I give him my money? Amir: Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Like I I got pissed.

So, but anyway, long story short, like I love what you're saying. You get busy, you gotta roll up your sleeves, you gotta take a deep breath, you gotta slow down to speed up, and you take it one one order at a time. I I think of like how athletes perform. You know, the Knicks just lost last night.

Are they crying about it? No, they're fucking practicing right now, you know, because they got a game tomorrow and Amir: Readjust it. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yesterday don't fucking matter anymore.

You know what I mean? So, you know, I I that's the way I kind of think and and it it just helps me get through some of my trials and tribulations in business. But ⁓ I want to get into these rapid fire questions before we forg for we lose we lose time there. I can talk to you for fucking two hours.

Well, I I am because my little man's starving and I I told you I'm a daddy dude. My wife's been traveling like a maniac the last couple months, so Amir: Uh-huh. Yeah, well I'm I'm not on a time crunch, let's go. Keep it going.

Got you. Yeah, yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.: You know, and it's like last minute too.

She's like, ⁓ I'm going to San Diego for a week. I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like Amir: Now I'm lucky. Upstairs I got I got the mom, the sister, the we have a multifamily so we got the whole the whole game this year.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: ⁓ man. ⁓ that's great. That's awesome.

All right. So rapid fire questions here. Ready? Best sandwich in the new in in the New Jersey area besides your own.

Amir: Shoot. ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Ha ha Amir: Best sandwich. ⁓ the guys, damn.

I'm not good with rapid fire questions like this. ⁓ Pastrami Pastrami Grill has some some great stuff. ⁓ the I love a good burger from Dan and Days. Is a burger or sandwich?

That's a debate for another day. ⁓ my guys, ⁓ the quarry ⁓ the quarry grill is phenomenal, Kubita Cafe is phenomenal. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Here we go, here we go.

Okay. Yeah. All right, all right. One ingredient that could ruin a sandwich in one second.

Amir: ⁓ yeah. For me it's onions, but ⁓ yeah, I everybody knows I don't do onions but ⁓ we cook with them all the time. Go figure, but yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: All right. One ingredient that makes every sandwich better. Amir: ⁓ Cheese Henry Kaminski Jr.: Okay.

Breakfast sandwich or lunch sandwich? Amir: I'm a lunch guy all day every day. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Hot sandwich or cold sandwich?

Amir: ⁓ give me a cold turkey sandwich every day and I'm a good guy. Yeah. That's right. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: He's OG. He's OG. Okay. one all right, one underrated I should let me go back.

Most underrated sandwich on your menu. Amir: The most underrated sandwich on my menu. Damn, I got a lot of good ones. ⁓ the chicken or the egg is the most underrated sandwich.

It is chicken cutlet ⁓ egg salad mixed together with pickles, lettuce, tomato, and a wrap, and it is phenomenal. The pickles kind of bring the egg salad and the chicken all together, and it's phenomenal. Henry Kaminski Jr.: ⁓ my god, dude.

⁓ my God. Most overrated food trend right now, you think? Amir: this dot cake crap. What the fuck is that?

⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: I love it. One restaurant habit that drives you crazy. Amir: Just like just when you walk it through the door and you just you just don't get there's no attention to you even coming in and you're just maybe ⁓ there's nobody in there and the girl's on her phone or she's doing something else that just you know, to me, customers in store are trump everything else.

And when you you know, I don't care how busy you are, if you know, you gotta kinda give eye contact and if you are busy you can just say, Hey, I'll be with you in a second, you know, just acknowledge but Henry Kaminski Jr.: ⁓ Amir: When when people don't do that sometimes this younger generation is just and so ⁓ you know, you kinda you gotta constantly have to remind them to to do basic things that you thought are just common sense, but whatever. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Yeah. One thing customers don't understand about running a shop like yours. Amir: The magnitude of stress ⁓ that we go through for every single little thing. ⁓ you know ⁓ we we gotta make sure that you're getting a good product, that you know, people are n are not being unsanitary, that ⁓ you know, everything's being followed by protocol, and then you gotta worry about if people are coming to work, and then you gotta worry about Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Yeah. Amir: the price of X, and Z and you gotta worry about you know, it's just I could go on and on and on. And so sometimes, you know, we wear that on our our face, you know, and you can see, you know, the stress and and the things that we're going through. But ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.

: Yeah. Okay. If Dutch's was a movie, what would it be? Amir: it would be a thriller.

It would be a a a comedy honestly a comedy thriller. It would be like ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: Nice. No, like what movie out there you think is best desc best good what do you think?

Okay, perfect. If Duchess was a song, what would it be? Amir: Well, Just friends. Yes.

⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: I think it's just because you're wearing the damn Wu-Tang t-shirt right now. I got like this Triumph vibe going. Like I hear the Triumph song.

Amir: Yeah, yeah, right. That's right. You see that Ric Flair? That's the Woo Tang.

But ⁓ Yeah, no, ⁓ Old School hip hop, you know, any biggie song, any ⁓ but I also switch it up. I'm a Dave Matthews guy as well, so like you never know which which side of me you're gonna get, right? Henry Kaminski Jr.: Okay.

Dude, you're you're like me, man. I I'll put fucking Dion and the Belmonts on and throw everybody for a fucking loop, you know? Right? Yeah.

And then I'll I'll get right into Drake. I'll get right into Rayquan, you know? Like I I I you know you're speaking my language now. ⁓ all right.

Best compliment a customer ever gave you. Amir: Yeah. That's right, man. And then we'll do the doo op and then we'll do some unrighteous brothers and then we'll do so yeah.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. that we're the best breakfast sandwich that they've ever had. ⁓ and we hear it a lot.

⁓ you know, people say those are bold words and I always say those are my words. Those are the words of my customers. ⁓ people have told me that they drive they've driven an hour fifteen from Butler and Cherry Hill just to come try my sandwiches. And they said it lived up to every bit of, you know, the drive and every, you know, all that stuff.

And when people tell me things like that, I can't even fathom that, you know, I won't even drive an hour and fifteen to go try something. So like, you know, the fact that people do that is just, you know, takes me ⁓ in a whirlwind, like I j I just can't fathom that it's you know, people are like, ⁓ my god, you're a Dutchist sandwich shop and I'm like, I'm just, you know, a mirror from the lower east side of Manhattan and and that's it. But Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ PS, I want one of those hats. I want one of those hats.

Amir: Do I honestly I got a new the new Hoboken ones coming, so I got you on that. Yeah, yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Okay.

All right. All right. You're like I'm getting like FOMO over here, like Amir: Yeah, we the Brandon Bills, you got the special Brandon Bills always, ⁓ Henry Kaminski Jr.: I love it.

I love it, dude. All right, a couple more questions and we'll wrap up, right? what's one marketing mistake restaurants keep making? Amir: I think it's I don't wanna say this 'cause I don't want to upset some people, but paying these influencers, some of these guys that ⁓ just really don't bring any value to you know, there's a lot of good ones out there, but then there's some that are just, you know, they don't bring value to ⁓ the the business.

⁓ they they want you know the food costs a lot and then they want, you know, whatever the fee costs on top of it and You know, at the end of the day, that's a a body's salary that you're asking for for the week. You know, that's you know, that's you know it's it's a lot. And so sometimes these guys come in and they spend the money in the wrong spot. ⁓ and then it just kinda leaves them in high water.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta do your homework a hundred percent.

I'm with you a thousand. Amir: lot of these guys buy their views or they have like robot followings and it's or they're in these groups and they're like like Miami mom O one is like, ⁓ my God, would love to go but like you're never gonna go 'cause you're in Miami but you know so it's just like Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah, the bot. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not held. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah, people gotta look out for that. You know, I had an account recently that was like, ⁓ I'm I don't I'm not gonna pay anybody to influence if they don't have over a hundred thousand followers. I'm like, buddy, that is not the game now. The but the the like if I brought in somebody with five thousand followers, you wouldn't know what the f but that has a really strong engagement, you wouldn't know fucking what to do with that, with that aud you know, with that f influx of Amir: Yeah.

Yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.: of reservation and guest. So s just slow down, like stop.

Amir: Yeah. Yeah, ten thousand followers from the Montclair region and a hundred thousand followers globally, it's like, you know, it's different. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah, it'll blow your doors off.

It'll blow your doors off, you know? ⁓ okay, two more questions. ⁓ what matters most? Social media or word of mouth?

Amir: ⁓ nowadays social media possible. Henry Kaminski Jr.: All right, all right. ⁓ what's one rule that you live by as a business owner?

Amir: ⁓ you live by the sword, you die by the sword. You know, ⁓ you you I I do you gotta spend money to make money. ⁓ you can't penny pinch, you can't, you know, like I said before, pay your guys well, you know, or they're gonna be looking for s another job somewhere else. They're ⁓ you know, make sure you you know s spend the money in the right spots.

⁓ quality ingredients, good food, good, you know, things of that nature. it goes a long way. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Can you hear me now?

All right, good. Yeah, I was having some technical difficulty here. ⁓ No, no, no, you got it. I just wanna change this.

My light went out, so I wanna just replace it real quick. I'll have to edit it later, but Amir: Yeah. No, it's all right we could do it again if you wanna say the question again. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: That's why got two of everything. Amir: There you go. I thought that was a background, like I didn't realize that was like a that's like legit, yeah. Henry Kaminski Jr.

: No, it's like a l legit light there. ⁓ all right. Before we jet, you got Location number three. Talk to us about it.

Let's get the word let's get the word out. When are we op yeah, where are we at? Where we at and and when are we opening? Amir: That's my man Jay ⁓ my man June do it.

Location number three. ⁓ so we're gonna be in Jersey City. We're gonna be ⁓ right by downtown Taciera across the street. ⁓ the old Cafe Doma.

It's a beautiful little small building with a nice little courtyard, three blocks from the Grove Street path station. ⁓ beautiful spot. If there's one thing I was taught when I was a kid ⁓ about restaurant world, is location, location, location, and that is everything. I think you can see that.

Between Church Street and Montclair, ⁓ where I am in Hoboken and now downtown Jersey City. ⁓ you gotta pick the right spot because that could ⁓ make you or break you, to be honest. and so that's where we're going. ⁓ we're gonna be running Dutchess Express.

⁓ it's gonna be our 15 best sandwiches. So you're gonna get your Dutch Caesar wraps, Angry Birds, your Dutch Daddies, ⁓ your Tay-Tays, all that good stuff. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Hundred percent, man. Amir: ⁓ and we're gonna do it fast and we're gonna do it well, and ⁓ that's it.

That sky's the limit. Henry Kaminski Jr.: I love it, dude. Amir.

What a pleasure meeting you for the first time, dude. Yeah, we gotta. I'm gonna I'm gonna be hitting Montclair real soon. So I will definitely give you a shout before I head down there.

Guys, there you have it. Amir Kamal from Dutch's Sandwich Shop in the house with yours truly. Amir: My man, it was a pleasure to meet you as well. Let's chop it up in person next time.

Sounds good. Henry Kaminski Jr.: What a great conversation. I I know you got some value out of this one.

So make sure that you share this episode with somebody in the industry that could get some value out of it. Make sure you drop those reviews. Remember that? Like, that's what fuels this freaking show.

⁓ and make sure that you follow my man Amir Dutch's Sandwiches Shop, right? Yep. And ⁓ make sure you give me a follow too on Instagram. Just type in my name.

I'm my my my Amir: That's just Sam was shot. Henry Kaminski Jr.: Big old bald head is just gonna show right up in the in the default photo. So ⁓ but there you have it, guys.

Another episode in the books. I think we're episode 65 now. Jesus Christ, I feel like I just started the show. But ⁓ appreciate all of you guys for all the support.

I see the numbers constantly going up every week as I drop more and more episodes. Got some really cool guests coming up. And it just it's a super blessed, man. So Amir: Take care.

Henry Kaminski Jr.: Appreciate all of you. Love you. I'll catch you on the next episode real soon.

Take care.