Creative Entrepreneurship: How Atlantic Agency Is Redefining Work

Speaker A: You're listening to Brand side, a podcast where creative and marketing leaders discuss topics like storytelling, brand marketing and creative work. Join the world's best brands and agencies for insights that help you stay creative at scale. This is Brand side by the creative automation company Celtra. Welcome back to brandside. My name is Christine and today I'm talking to not only fantastic creatives, but they are my dear friends Marco Pulpo and Joo Coutinho. They are multi award winning creative leaders that after a pretty stellar career leading creative department said everywhere from Gray and Ogilvy and VML, Y&R and more, they decided to found their own creative shop. And out of all places, this shop is actually on a ship in Brooklyn. Welcome to the show. I'm very excited to have you.

Speaker B: Thank you, Christine.

Speaker C: Thank you, Christine.

Speaker A: So, um, we'll be discussing everything from creative entrepreneurship to um, your latest work for Prime Video and then of course the future of the agency model and what's up with that. Um, but before we get into your stories, I just wanted to kind of um, reminisce on a very special moment in my career when I was job hunting in New York City, um, I was here for three months on a tourist visa and I remember sending so many cold emails to creative directors and like 99% of them were probably just went to the junk folder and nobody ever replied. You two did and you took a meeting with me. I remember us meeting one day, um, after work and just like getting a sort of a lowdown of what's happening in the um, agency world and creative industries. So to me it really shows character and I, and I haven't forgotten that. So I just wanted to kind of tell that story also to the audience. But with that, um, how did you two meet? How did you start working together back in the day?

Speaker C: We met, uh, back in Brazil. So Joo is from Portugal, I am from Brazil, Um, and Joao was living in Sao Paulo, uh, for a few years. And then we actually ended up meeting at Ogilvy in Brazil. We were sitting back to back. Basically we were not partners at the time. But then after a few months, um, we actually, um, there was like a, you know, a shift in the agency and then we started like working together and then from there, uh, it's been what, 10 more? 10 years, right?

Speaker B: 10 years. Yeah. I moved to Brazil in 2011 to work at Ogilvy and you know. And I think you joined in 2012, right, Marco?

Speaker C: I think it was Ogilvie.

Speaker B: Yeah, around, um, that and it was like uh, instant chemistry. You know, Marco was working with, um, Agustin, which is an Uruguayan, uh, that now is. He does like. I don't think he works in advertising anymore. He was. He does like, climbing or something.

Speaker C: He wrote a bright book. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah.

Speaker B: And. And then we used to sit, like, across, you know, and then we start doing, like, project on the side. And then, uh, you know, Ogilvy was agency of the year in 2013, and we helped with, uh, with some work. And then we, you know, we got offers from some places from the US and um, in terms of position and salary, Gray was the worst offer that we got. But we, we had really good chemistry, you know, with, um, the guys that were hiring us. And it was an agency that you could feel, you know, that it has everything ready to take off.

Speaker C: You know, it was already like, going, ah, really well. Like the agency, we could see the. It wasn't like, quite there, like, yet as the full potential. But the agency, we felt that, uh, it was getting into like, a really good momentum when we, when we joined.

Speaker B: Exactly. They did the trade, baby, which didn't win, uh, awards, but it was a very, like, pop culture campaign. The DirecTV ads that won tons of awards. That was amazing. We didn't work for that account, but we worked for Canon that were doing like, really good, really good, uh, work. And then it's, I think, you know, when all the stars are aligned. You know, that was our time at Gray. Everything that could happen, well, happened well. You know, like, all the. We have, like, all the opportunities. Things went really, really, really well for us there.

Speaker A: And that's a. And it's a great lesson of, like, whenever you have the opportunity to choose the creative potential over numbers and salary, that's something that you should definitely, um, do in this industry. And now later in your career, you know, you. You worked together for a very long time, and then you split your partnership for a while. Both of you went on to lead creative teams at different agencies. What made you join forces again? Or was that always the plan?

Speaker B: It was always the plan. Um, but, you know, because we have families, we have kids, you know, and like, and we always like to take risks, you know, but, uh, and it was. This was, you know, starting. There's. There's a lot of people that either start their, their companies because they're like, okay, this is one day I will do this, I will quit. In our case, we were both let go, uh, during COVID you know, so Mark was let go in March, I was let go in in August, and I remember Marco called me immediately when he was like. And it was the first time that happened in our careers, which was like, very brutal, you know, when, when that happened to us. But at the same time was like a, uh, sensation of relief because we weren't enjoying. We just weren't enjoying, you know, working on like, the corporate world. You know. We announced, uh, on Thanksgiving 2020 that we were starting Atlantic, but we only start operating, you know, we had the website, the company was already, you know, legal and like, um, operating in January 2021, which is like not even two years, one year and like 10 months. Around 10 months ago.

Speaker A: It's been great seeing you, um, build and grow your agency. And I've seen your being on a hiring spree and bringing more people on board, and it's kind of like grown from this two person, small operation to an actual agency, which is so great to see. When we started talking about getting you guys on the podcast, I remember you saying, yes, but can we please record, um, in sometime mid September? Cause we're working on this huge project. I'm guessing that project is now out. Was it the, um, Prime Video, um, campaign that you were working on?

Speaker C: It was definitely one of them, yeah.

Speaker A: Talk to me about the campaign.

Speaker C: Sure. Yeah. No, uh, this relationship started, um, I believe it was early April. It came through, uh, a connection of ours, uh, Leo Macia's, which is, he's a creative guy who is on the client side now. He's doing a really great job at Amazon. Um, and he, I think he wanted to experiment with, you know, different agencies. I think they were working with a, you know, very big, famous agency. And I think they were like, hey, can we experiment with a different model? And then we did like a, ah, quick sprint, like a six week sprint with them just to see if the chemistry was there. Like, almost like it was for us. Like we look back and say, this is the bright way for a pitch to happen. They paid us. It was very like, you know, it was a very respectable process. They were really getting to know us and we were getting to know them. So we did that for six weeks, uh, on this project that we ended up like launching. Ended up like launching, uh, this week actually. So, um, it started like as a six week project and then we worked the whole summer until now, like launching Thursday Night Football for Prime Video. So basically Thursday Night Football is now exclusive on Prime Video. You can only watch that, um, on Thursdays on Prime Video. And they needed to communicate basically to the whole country, uh, about that, you know, and Then we did, like, uh, a lot of work from TV commercials to. All the way to some. So like, even some social. An activation that we did that we launched the ball, which was probably. That's the one that you're talking about. That's the one you saw it so far, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's definitely the one that's making waves.

Speaker B: It was inspired on the. On the Amazon smile, you know, and it. It was an idea that, you know, came from Leo. You know, Leo shares with us. I have this idea, you know, and let's. Let's, you know, make this idea together. Uh, and they didn't have, like, um, the strategy and the concept and everything. We created everything and we created, you know, uh, but the idea of having a ball inspired on the Amazon smile was there already, you know. Um, and credit to Leo is like an amazing, you know, like, force of nature. Like, um, he's on the client side, but he's super creative, always supporting, pushing, pushing, pushing. Um, and. And then we created, like, this concept, which is the prime night of football, you know, because, you know, it's the prime video. And we want to elevate Thursdays, which were the ugly duckling of, like, the NFL games, you know, and we want to elevate this night to the prime night of football, you know, and they bought this concept, bought the strategy. Then we produced three or four commercials, you know, big production with Pretty Bird. We made the ball with Wilson. Wilson is the partner. You know, we. And the NFL, you know, three quarterbacks. You know, the most famous quarterbacks now. Justin Herbert, Matthew Stafford, which is super bowl, uh, winner this year, and Russell Wilson. We did the campaign with them. They help, you know, uh, with, uh, with the stunt, you know, like, playing with the ball. And fans were like, oh, this is real. Is not this real? You know, and, um. And like, now we're discussing, you know, to, you know, start thinking about strategy for next season, you know, like other projects over there.

Speaker A: Yeah. Whenever you're able to break that cultural barrier and, you know, I saw this, the football, um, all over the news. It's like, then, you know, you're onto something. And so, um, when it comes to Atlantic, how do you see your offering and what. What makes it unique from all of the other indie players out there or even the holding companies?

Speaker C: Yeah. Like, this is like the constant, you know, discussion that I think. I'm pretty sure, like, every agency has. Um, I think what we try to do, um, we have a philosophy that is, you know, we call it, like, the countercurrent. Um, approach to everything. It's like, basically, it's an exercise that we do of, like, seeing where everything is going on purpose. We, we explore, you know, the other way that comes, like, from, like, when we're doing strategic work for clients. Like, how do we find a way to position the brand, you know, you know, in a. In a different space? Like, there's a whole, um, strategy mode that we're. We're developing with our two strategists. Um, it's like a very creative way of doing strategy, which. Which we think it's super cool. Like, it's lot more storytelling than, like, you know, triangles and circles on a deck. That philosophy we apply then, you know, we question every single part of every. Every step of the process, basically. Like, how. How do we engage in pitches? For example, like when we did, like, the. The prime video, uh, thing, you know, initially it was. It was a pitch like, but how do you actually have conversations? How do you keep yourself firm to your beliefs and say, we want to work with you. Probably you want to work with us because you reached out. So, like, how do we find a way that works for us as well, not being always, like, serving, serving, serving, saying, yes, yes, yes. But like, how do you keep your beliefs really, you know, happening?

Speaker B: It's like a trial, right? You know, like on these platforms. You try the platform, you know, um, and. And then you see, you know, obviously in this case, they pay us. You know, like, what. What we're trying to do is like, you know, do a project, four weeks with us, uh, six weeks. You know, like, it's like kind of like. And then you see, if you, like, let's do more projects if you don't, like, you know, some maybe. Maybe in another. In another time, you know. But, uh, it's like this pitch, you know, it's something that destroys completely agencies, you know, like, it's, uh, the huge cause of burnout. Uh, burnout. Uh, you know, people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on pitches. They, they don't care about the client, their current clients to be investing in pitches. It's the wrong system. People. You, uh, know, there's articles coming out. You know, like, people are. There's some things in the industry that are just wrong, you know, And, And. And like, if you do a pitch, one is free. It's obviously. And. But like, it's like getting married, live together, you know, and like, what. What we're proposing is like, let's live together, you know, for like four to six weeks. Let's see, uh, if we like each other, and then, you know, maybe we can marry or not, you know.

Speaker A: No. So, yeah. So I think you already both touched upon how you see the agency client relationship evolving, um, and how you're responding to that. Is there anything else that you think is sort of, aside from pitching is broken in the current system of how most operate, and how would you fix it?

Speaker C: Well, there's a lot of things that are broken. Right? Um, there's a lot of good things coming already. Like, we admire a lot of new agencies. We don't pretend that we are the best. We have all the, you know, even, like, that is a level of respect that was lost between agencies. Like, you know, everything became so corporate, so big and full of, uh, bullshit, to be honest, that the human level, the human connections were lost between clients and agencies as well. It became like, so, oh, this agency is just trying to make as much money as they can on my campaign. I don't really trust them. The agency is always complaining about the clients as well. And I think what you're seeing now is a lot of people tired of that, especially very senior, uh, creatives, strategists, every, every. In every role of agencies coming out and doing their own thing, like, smaller, like, just, just. That is a massive change to the industry already. I think that will solve a lot of. A lot of what's broken because it's like human connections again, you know, like, it's people who actually have beliefs, uh, they will be able to stand up for their own, you know, the things that they believe on. And by doing that, you know, burnout, for example, can, can be solved. Because what's happening with burnout right now, it's like agencies putting timesheet, selling, selling hours, right? And then like, okay, I have this team here that I hired. The more projects I put on that team, the better, right? That's how the, the model works and the money works. And then, like, people are out of a sudden, like, they're working on 10 different projects. They don't even know why they're working on so many things because it doesn't really make any sense. Clients think that they're paying 100% for one talent when they're, in fact, you know, paying. Yes, they're paying 100. Sorry. They think that they're paying, you know, a lot more. They're getting a lot less. But in fact, they're, you know, paying 100% of a team, getting 10% of that team because that team is being spread in. In five different clients and struggling. So everyone is losing. Right? The only people who are. Who are actually benefiting from this, we don't even know who they are. Basically, it's like someone sitting on a really high board of networks. And I think the moment smaller, um, agencies are coming, they're saying, okay, I can actually control the amount of work I put into one team or one person, because it's already super profitable still. You know, I think this is the thing that we're seeing. Like, it's still, like, a very profitable industry if you actually just do it the right way, you know, so this frustration that all the industry is over, there's no, no, no money anymore. We think it's not true. Like, it's. Yeah, it's. It's. You don't do, like, one piece of work and then you make $2 million and you're out. It's like, yeah, you. You have to make the whole campaign, and it's like, it's a lot of work, but there's still, like, you know, we are the ones now making the scopes and everything. And we see how you can actually have a model where, like, people don't work like crazy. They do a very fair amount of work. They get paid well. The agency still profits. The clients feel like that they're paying for a team, that they're actually using that team. They know who the team is. That will solve by itself if it's well done and if everyone is being firm with what we want with the industry, that solves a lot of the issues. From burnout to clients, uh, and agency relationships that are built like, there's no trust anymore in either side. Everyone is like, oh, but are you really giving me this percentage that you're. You're selling me? You know, a lot of that comes out when it's a business of people and, like, with people instead of a massive corporation with another massive corporation, like, you know, anyway, I can. I can speak, like, 25 hours about that, but, yeah, uh, probably no one, anyone, nobody cares.

Speaker B: I think burnout is something that, uh, worries us a lot, you know, and we've been talking with one of our strategists, you know, to have a. An open space to talk about mental health, you know, which is. You're from Europe, I'm from Europe as well. And there's, like, a bigger stigma there, you know. You know, if you say that you're doing therapy, you know, like, people, you know, get super worried, but there's still a lot of, um, stigma, uh, around mental health, you know, and we want to create A space one to protect people from, from burnout. Like we try to avoid at all costs to work on weekends or late nights, you know, and like have the rule of not sending emails or calling people after, uh, you know, 5:36pm you know, it happens sometimes. Needs to be an exception, not the rule. What happened now in the agency is that the exception became the rule, you know, so we need to be really, really like if we have like, if we're like delivering a campaign or something, you know, we'll have to work probably, um, you know, one extra or a couple of extra hours, you know, but it's, it needs to be really the exception, you know. And one thing that um, someone said which was like all agencies start to same, you know, but then they all be, start completely different. We want to be different. And then they become the same, you know. And it's, it's a constant reminder that we keep, you know, when we are put into, into the wall and have to make hard decisions, you know, uh, we always, what would like WPP or Omnicom or IPG do, you know, in this situation? And what is the right. It doesn't mean that they all do uh, wrong things. It doesn't mean that. But there's like lots of crook things in the system that they don't fix. And it's not that we're like the only agency trying to do that. There's a lot of agencies trying to do that, um, independent and some big ones that are really trying to do things the right way.

Speaker A: I think maybe the issue is also that if we. Well, first of all, we all know that it's the holding company that's kind of like squeezing the juice because they need to be profitable because they're public companies and they answer to shareholders and that's their business model. But on the other side too is like if we look at the fragmentation of media and it's really exploded the amount of places that brands need to be present and tell their story and have their um, and have their ads and creative run. And so now all of a sudden we're in a situation where these brands, they don't have also like, they don't have more money to spend. Like budgets aren't going up the same space pace that um, all these like creative channels are. And so then they're also asking more and more of their agency partners. And at the same time it's the holding company saying no, we need to be more efficient. But at the end of the day, um, we are all, we're Selling creative work. And creative. I believe efficiency is the enemy of creative work because you cannot force great thinking and great creative ideas. And so we're kind of in this like push, pull. Um, but speaking of holding companies, you are part of one, albeit it's very different. And so you're, you're part of. By the network, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so talk to me. How that business model and collaboration is different from the um, well, dinosaurs, for lack of a better word.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, you know, we, we always like first, first of all, I think when we say, when we talk about bigger, the big networks, we always like, you know, it was through them that we actually got our careers where, where we got. So like we, we have tons of, you know, uh, tons of things to be thankful for for those companies. There's many things that are wrong with them, you know, and we talk about all of them. We don't, you know, give them any easy. But you know, just to, just to be clear, like we, it's not that we hate or like we want, hey now, we want to destroy everything. Like you know, there's going to be space for them, but we want to do something different with Biden Network. I think what we um, what we were very interested about, uh, when Per Patterson is the, the guy who actually uh, founded this network. So what it is, is like it's a network of independent agencies. Uh, it's like boutique agencies like us. I think we're one of the smallest ones. Like, they're more like middle, like M. We have like 10 people right now on staff. Like they, you know, there's some agencies who have like 50, but they're like small, small independent agencies. And the difference is the, the network is not. There's no financial commitment at all. You know, it's literally a group of uh, independent agencies that get together to work if it makes sense. If like for example, Atlantic is an agency based in New York. Right. We do get some projects outside, we do get some global projects. But if we feel like that we need a team, let's say in Australia, one in London, one in Africa. We would not uh, be able to do that ourselves necessarily so quickly. But because we have a network of independent agencies that is already pre selected, we already have like WhatsApp group with all the agency leaders. We can exchange ideas. Say, hey, we have this project that came through our clients is a global project. They're looking for a global scope. Can we put together a global team between our agencies and then we can actually build a uh, global team. Let's say if we bring the client, is it still like led by Atlantic, but we start putting different teams underneath us and then we can just like do the financials within the network. Any clients only pay for this big network when it makes sense. Only when they actually need this network is when they actually have to pay for it. Which is very interesting. And it's like also another thing is all companies there, like they're creative led companies which were like selected by pair. Uh, um, so there's a level as well of what type of work that we engage, what are the things that we want to do. Are we perfect? 100%? No, I think we're all figuring out

Speaker B: this is a new model and making tons of mistakes and learning with mistakes. But it's creatives at the helm. You know, it's creatives who are doing the calls and like these, you know, year and 10 month. All the business that we have been working on, uh, all the business that we brought was 100% through our creative connections. You know, we didn't have investors, we didn't have like, uh, account people working, helping, uh, us, you know, uh, m. And it was all the business that we brought, it was like through our, the reputation and the connections we, we built through our careers. You know, we just hire a, ah, uh, managing director. She's on maternity leave. You know, we hired two, four, one, um, and, but. And you know, and she started uh, in June. She just had the baby. We worked together at Grace on a week. She already changed the agency. You know, like she's like, supports 100% creative work. It's like amazing.

Speaker C: She's really special.

Speaker B: Really, really, really special.

Speaker C: Suzanne Barbosa. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So, um, on this path of entrepreneurship that you both are on now, and like you mentioned, you started this agency at the height of the pandemic. Um, was there something in the process that surprised you that you weren't expecting? I mean everybody knows when you start your own thing, it's a lot of grind. It's hard in the beginning. Um, you're kind of like you have to wear like 17 different hats. Um, you're your own HR, your, your own talent, um, uh, operations as well. But is there something that really surprised you in the process?

Speaker C: I think everything surprised us.

Speaker B: It's like we need like up until like a few months ago we were like doing all payments, you know, sending checks on the mail, taking care of. We were doing basically everything, you know, like, because up until November it was just me and Marco and a network of freelancers. You Know, uh, and. And now we have. We are more like, like a professional agency with benefits, 401k, paycheck, payroll, 10, you know, health insurance, uh, everything, you know, and then we have a platform, you know, like a very easy, um, platform that we work with. And things are easy. But before that, you know, we're junior CEOs, you know, like, we're like, learning this profession, you know, like, uh, you get scared. You get scared sometimes, you know, because you don't know if you're making the right decision, like, for us having to make. Uh. And this is a funny story. We were invited in our first week of existence by, uh, a big, uh, tech brand that invited us. And we were up against, like, big agencies, you know, and we had one week of existence. We put together a team, you know, we presented work and we. We made a scope, Marco and I, and we were four times, uh, more expensive than the other, you know, and they wanted to work with us, but they were like, guys, man, it's impossible. You know, like, they really like to work. They love the vibe, you know. And like, we were sad for like, three months, right, Marco? Because it was like a great opportunity of like, starting with, like, this account. But, like, you know, you learned, you know, like, uh, then now, you know, um, Suzy helps us a lot, you know, with all the process stuff. But now we can do scopes, you know, we know exactly, you know, um, how to be very assertive in things. But like, we have rate cards. We, you know, we're trying to find, like, the. The best way to, you know, like we said, like, to reinvent the pitch process, you know, we offer something to the clients, you know, but also something that is fair for us as well, you know, that we don't. None of the parts lose time, you know, so things are like, more like, tailored to succeed in both parts and not having like, an agency that it's like, ah, um, a subservient executioner, let's say. We're never going to be that part of the business.

Speaker A: Did you have a particular moment, um, um, in the existence of the agency that made you feel like, okay, now we've made, um, actually feels like it has a future. This is an actual agency versus just like, you know, trying to make that happen.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, there's. I think the, um. We got super lucky, to be honest, that when we launched with no clients, no investors, just literally Joao and I, we put our own money in it, you know, and we started like, already getting like, some pretty, like, significant invitations to pitches and I think we made tons of mistakes in the beginning. Tons. Um, I think now we feel like, oh, we got it now. So I think this year was okay. We made it like as we have like, you know, brands that we teamed up, like, you know, Yahoo, Twitter prime, uh, video, you know, we did a lot of um, Somehow like we got into like this love from tech brands. I think they, but we didn't, we didn't, we never, like, it's funny, like we never picked up the phone to call anyone. It was literally every week there was something, you know, a connection. I think we, you know, we feel like very lucky that people actually remember us, recommend us. Uh, people are putting their names in front of our agency recommending us, which, like, for us, like it's, it's heaven, you know, when we, when that happens. Because it, you know, obviously we get super nervous when someone puts us as a name and then like, you're doing like a million dollar scope and it's like, oh my God, what if like we fail? I don't want to burn that people forever, you know, so. But I think we, we, we feel like that this is the year that is making us. And it's already our first year.

Speaker B: Basically, you know, that last year was year zero. You know, year zero. We had investors that wanted to invest, you know, but we, we decided like we, we left the corporate world to be independent, to be able to choose. You know, I want to work with this person, I want to work with this brand that I love. You know, I don't want to work with red flags, you know, I don't want to, we don't want to work with, uh, you know, you know, people or companies that are not doing the right thing. You know, of course we'll make mistakes, will keep making mistakes, you know, uh, but I think like last year was year zero. I would say that when we made the project for Yahoo, you know, uh, and the NBA for the All Star Game and we already had a creative team, you know, that, that made a huge difference when we hired, you know, you have those butterflies on the, on the, on the valley. We like last year in the like, probably like around this time we could already have hired someone, but we were like afraid, you know, to make that commitment. When we hired, uh, Elizabeth and Jessica, the first creative team we hired, and it changed completely the agency, you know, like that it was like, okay, this is an agency. This is not a team of two guys, you know, like, um, and then Gabi joins, you know, and then we did the project for Yahoo Uh, but I think I had, um, a click, you know, I was telling Marco because this Prime Video production, we went to LA and it was like six or eight days of shoot that they split in two weeks. So I covered the first week and Marco covered second. And I remember going on, uh, uh, uh, I took a taxi from the airport to the hotel and I was like, I'm in LA producing like this huge campaign for Amazon Prime Video with like celebrity football players and like, and ah, it's our agency, you know, like, and that moment was like, you, you're so like working so much that you don't realize, you know, like. And we're two immigrants. We, you know, we've been in New York for nine years. But like, um, it's something that's, you know, uh, those little moments that are like, oh, this is, this is really amazing. And then of course we have all our anxieties, you know, of like. Like when you start marrying people, you know, you get, you get anxious, you know, because, you know, you have life depending on you, you know, and like, uh, there's a beauty on it as well, you know, trying to help these people. Uh, like Susie, when we hire her, she was like, let's build the position that you want, you know, uh, our managing director. Let's design the position you want. You know, let's. You're going to help us build this agency with you, you know, so let us, let us know what you want. You know, let's, you know, we don't have these and take it, you know, even like with junior people. Let's, let's find something that adapts better to people.

Speaker C: You know, I think one thing that we say, like, it's, we're trying to buy to build a company that adapts around people instead of people having to adapt to a company, you know, um, it's a subtle way of doing things. Obviously it works when you're small. We have no idea, like, if we were like 100 people, if that would still work. But like with 10 people, everyone has their own little bucket. And we try as much as possible to really adapt around our employees, you know.

Speaker A: So what's next for the agency? What's your future vision? Because, you know, when I've, I've talked to a lot of different agency leaders, like, for example, um, Raoul Monroe, who co founded RXM Creative, he, um, in his interview told me that no, like, he has no desire like, becoming a huge agency. He on purpose keeps it small. He just wants to do great work. Um, but for you Is the. Do you want to grow this into a big agency? Are you ultimately looking to maybe, um, grow something that could be acquired, um, by a bigger company? Or is your focus just the creative work first? Like, what's the vision?

Speaker B: I would say that our main goal is to be happy and make people that work with us happy. That's, you know, our main goal, you know. And, you know, we never had, like, oh, let's open 10 offices and hire 400 people. It's not our goal. If it happens, it's because it was meant to happen, you know, but it's. We. We think that being small, you know, maybe grow up to like 30 people, you know, and these people can be spread out around the world, you know,

Speaker A: maybe, uh.

Speaker B: It's like the right size. It depends on if. If we. So far we've been working, you know, on project base, but we're very open to baor, you know, of. Of, um, of brands, you know, it all depends. We don't, we really don't have that. That goal of like, growing and growing to be bought for sure. No, you know, that we're not doing these two. Uh, so, you know, we can retire.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think the size doesn't matter as well. Like, if it's 10, 20, 30. As long as we feel that we're happy, people are happy and the work is good. That's the size that we want. You know,

Speaker B: we really didn't start Atlantic to, um, you know, to make money, you know, like, I think happiness, of course, money is important, you know, but it's. It comes second. It doesn't come first.

Speaker A: You know, if you're, um, if you're gonna open a second office in the. In the future, will it also be on a ship? Does it need to be a city with a marina?

Speaker C: Uh, it's a good question. Um, we. It's like we're. We're evolving as well. Like, what. We even like what the boat is when we first started. Like, oh, this is the actual office office. And then like, as we. We grew, like, and there's like, more people. We're hiring a lot of people from other cities. You know, there's a lot of people spread around. So the boat is becoming more and more like a place that we go to have certain meetings. Like, we go. We're going to, um. After this recording, we're gonna go there to do like, uh, just a strategy session for the agency. Like what we. How we're gonna evolve our model. So I think the. It's. It's more of A space for meetings, for bringing clients, doing, like, some sessions, creative sessions, than an actual office. And I think the agency. I don't know, Joan. We don't have like, an official word on that, but I think we're feeling more and more that Atlantic is an international agency. You know, we're flying to Sweden, uh, in two weeks to work on a really, really, really interesting project there, which, you know, we were not expecting. But it came, we spoke and it was like, oh, it's a really cool project. Let's do it.

Speaker B: We're doing the campaign for Twitter, you know, for Latam. I don't know if we mentioned already, it started as a global campaign. Then Elon Musk decided to buy Twitter. They, they, uh, freeze everything. And now it's, uh. We just had the kickoff, the production kickoff meeting this week. It's going to be a Latam, um, uh, campaign. Amazing client, amazing partner. Uh, this will be like the first of many for sure, you know, and like, we did a project. We did a project for. For Portugal, you know, for, um, for a biggest retail company there that they have, like, they own, like, the biggest supermarkets in Poland and in Colombia. And, you know, we were going to production and we really like these clients and like, working with brands, like, with clients from Europe, it's a little tough for us, you know, because our staff is here and like, the budgets there are pretty smaller, you know. Yeah. But we really like these clients and they were like, really great partners. But then the war exploded and their main, you know, source of income is in Poland, and they had to, you know, uh, you know, the. Most of the refugees from Ukraine go to work on their supermarkets, you know, and they teach them, you know, they, they house them, you know, they're. They. These clients, they are so humble that they don't, uh, you know, they don't brag, they don't say anything about the, like, the really, like, social thing that they do, you know. Um, but we were like, starting production and it was, it went on pause because of the war, you know. It was a good Super Bowl. Yeah.

Speaker C: They did the right thing, to be honest. Right. Like shifting the money to, like, what actually matters in that case. Mhm.

Speaker A: Mhm. And even in not making that into a PR story, but moreover, just doing that because it's the right thing, that's pretty admirable. Um, I've got one last question for both of you, um, before I let you go. So if you were to work on something completely different, um, that's not advertising, what would you do or have done DJ Pina Colada.

Speaker C: Uh, Joo has a side career he doesn't like to talk about. So I always talk about for him.

Speaker B: I lived in Madrid. I worked in Madrid three years, and I started DJing parties and stuff. Stuff. But then, you know, and then I went to. Back to Lisbon and, you know, I started, like, playing more. More often. But then when I moved to Brazil and with. When my. When the twins, my older kids were born, you know, an international career taking off, uh, it was impossible to. You know, I still buy music. I recorded a session like a couple of weeks ago. But responding, I wouldn't do the DJ as a profession. I would love to work on, like, uh, to have like a hotel or like, ah, you know, something, uh, related with tourism, you know, with, um. That's. That's something I would. I would like to do. Marco has that, you know, because he already bought a house in, uh, upstate. The Airbnb is this house, you know, and it's because you're in touch with when people want to relax and they're happy, you know, like you. That's the contact, right? With a good side, the good. The good human side, you know, like, uh, lodging, right? Not. Not so much like a restaurant, because you get some, like, really angry people, you know, but having something related with like, lodging and tourism, I would love that, you know.

Speaker A: Marco, what about you?

Speaker C: I would probably like. I. I like to do a lot of things. Like, many people obviously not don't feel special for that, but I think, um, more and more I'm, like, going back to, like, something that I love. I used to love to do when I was a child, which is like dealing with wood, you know, When I was a kid, one day I asked my dad, like, oh, can I actually buy some tools? And we went and bought some tools, and I was like, building all these projects with wood at home. I never, like, really took it forward. I think somehow I believed that I could never make a living out of that. But during the pandemic, I did a lot of. As Joan was saying, we both got laid off during the pandemic, and I had plenty of time. Nobody didn't even want to talk about hiring or whatever. So I was like. I said, you know what? Like, I'm. I'm in the middle of the woods. I'm going to. I'm going to just like, start doing wood woodwork. And I loved it. So maybe I'll probably do that. I'm going to sell the agency my half, uh, in two years, and I'll do that draw.

Speaker A: There you go. You have to have your creative outlets, um, even working full time in a creative industry. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to, um, join Brandside. We'll be linking Atlantic and all that good stuff into the episode description. But if we have, um, brand marketers listening, um, where can they get in touch with you? Do you have an email address where they can, um, shoot a note if they want to work with you or talk a little bit more about collaborating?

Speaker C: Sure, yeah. You can email us, um, Marco. Atlantic-New York.com it's, uh, all spelled out. Or Joao. Atlantic-New York.com Or Ahoy.

Speaker B: Our, uh, hello, email is called Ahoy. You know, like, very, like maritime. Atlanticahawai.

Speaker A: Of course. Yeah.

Speaker C: We try to limit the amount of, like, maritime analogies that we do. Otherwise it gets very cheesy.

Speaker A: Great. Um, and thank you, ah, all at home for listening to Brandside. If you liked what you heard, maybe you'll give us those five stars, um, maybe even, even a little review. I wouldn't mind that at all. And until next time, my name is Christine, and thank you for listening.

Speaker C: Thank you so much, Christine.

Speaker A: You've been listening to Brand side by the creative automation company Celtra. If you like the show, we'd love a rating and review. And don't forget to follow wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time,

Speaker C: Sam.