Unhinged Marketing Campaigns

Mark Vandegrift Welcome to another episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Vandegrift. And with me today is our precise positionist, Lorraine Kessler. Lorraine, today we're going to get a little chaotic and jump into some unhinged marketing campaigns.

But before we do that, summer is upon us, and that means the lake life for you. Have you ventured north yet? Lorraine Kessler We have and it's begun with trying to get all the water toys in and making sure they work so far, so good. But there's been a lot of other issues when you have a second house.

And of course we're ready for what lake life means, which is at the end of the day you relax and sometimes you imbibe. And to that point, I'm akin, I feel akinship to Ashley Banfield, you know, and I know we are arguing for the same numbers in podcasting. But she was on the other day, Memorial Day, and she was she actually admitted, I'll be all over the board, which she always is all over the board in my opinion, but because I'm I've already had some drinks. So I'm gonna ask people to I won't use show my logo here, but, you know, what's in this tumbler right now?

So, you can write in if you're interested. Mark Vandegrift Yeah, I don't know your drink of choice. So I would even be guessing. Maybe I'll email us and and put a guess in.

All I know about you is the wine connoisseur that you are. I don't know what you drink otherwise. Lorraine Kessler Right. I don't drink a lot of spirits.

I really don't. I do have a few choice things. But ever since my heart attack a year ago with the LAD, which didn't feel like a heart attack to anybody out there, no symptoms, it's really bizarre. But ninety nine percent blocked LED.

I really haven't had a taste for wine. And it's just now beginning to come back, but I'm like, okay, not a bad thing. So I've enjoyed wine for many years and but now I just like the taste just doesn't appeal to me. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift Interesting. Well can I still knock beer off your list? Lorraine Kessler I usually drink zero zero beer. Mark Vandegrift okay.

So Heineken? Lorraine Kessler Yeah, I love the flavor of beer, particularly with like burgers or wings or those kinds of things, but I don't really need the alcohol. So Heineken Zero Zero is phenomenal. So I usually choose that.

Yeah. Mark Vandegrift Cool. Well, let's get dirty to start. Lorraine Kessler Yeah.

Yeah. Mark Vandegrift So we're gonna kick off with Dunkin' Donuts. They launched a new item on their menu in April, and it's called the Dunkin' Dirty Soda. And I just this gets me kind of groatied out, but it's Pepsi, coffee, milk, and sweet cold foam.

Okay. Lorraine Kessler Woah! Mark Vandegrift To help drive awareness and promote this new drink, Dunkin's Instagram and TikTok accounts did not hold back. So on May 7th, just less than a month ago, the Dunkin' Dirty Soda made its debut on the Instagram account.

And then TikTok videos followed shortly after. And Lindsey'll throw some of the posts up on the screen here. But from the looks of it, this unhinged dirty Dunkin' soda marketing is only social. It's only TikTok, it's only Instagram.

For us old fuddy duddies, it's not Facebook. So Lorraine, give us your thoughts on this. Who are they trying to target? And do you think this is an effective approach?

Lorraine Kessler Okay, well that's kind of an interesting thing. First of all, I think it's a fun name and a fun kind of concept. So it's definitely trying to target younger, younger than millennials, you know, what is it, the Gen Z, Gen Alpha group, who love things like bubble tea and all that. And I think definitely, you know, when we look at Dunkin' Donuts, they're pretty much a broad spectrum of demographics that they reach.

but their core group, it tends to be younger. That they want I'm sorry, their core group tends to be a little bit older and they want to, I think, deepen the what would you call it, the connection with their brand, with the younger audience. And so a product like this that really does appeal to the younger audiences who don't drink straight up coffee and who may not be that in love with donuts per se, I think is a great product. I think it's a perfect product for them.

You know what reminds me, Marshall McLuhan years ago, what, fifty years ago? I don't know, maybe longer, said the medium is the message and the article was the, and I think that has never been more true than what we see today with digital and social and the idea that this is a very different type of media and it's kind of coming into its golden era, I think, in terms of how people connect with it, understand it, and, you know, the word that we never used in the old days in advertising, engage, right?

so it's this is something that digital social gives to us that really is not been in our tool set prior to this, prior to the the evolution of technology. I've always argued that the medium is a message, not the message, because we believe that you have to have the right message. If I just deliver something to you, but it doesn't fit who you are or what you're interested in, or make a choice plain in your mind, then the message it doesn't matter what media you used, it's it's just a whiff, right?

It's like s it's like striking out. It's like getting to the plate but striking out. So the audience is younger, Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Why is Dunkin' doing this?

Because it really does need to strengthen. I think they're looking at the future. You can't build the future of Dunkin' on past loyalty. And as Peter Drucker said, you know, the purpose of a business is to produce a customer and also to keep that customer.

But they're going to be losing customers just by attrition of physical life if they stay very strong with boomers and millennials. We're not getting any younger. So I think they have to make this move. It's I wouldn't call it repositioning.

But it is certainly refocusing on that audience. Now in terms of just digital, just TikTok and just Instagram, well we know that these are the media that like when I asked my college students, how many use Facebook, none of them do. When I asked them how many use Instagram, I would say about twenty-five percent. When I asked TikTok, every single one.

So today which is very different than in our era. These generations are identifying with the media. They're identifying with TikTok the way that we would might identify with Starbucks or another brand. So it's a very different era.

It's very, very different. So will it be effective? Will it work? I think it depends on frequency, you know, and how often they continue to promote this because everything is episodic.

I mean one thing about digital is it's here today, gone tomorrow, right? Even faster. It's not even a twenty four hour news cycle. It's like a ten minute news cycle, right?

It's here and it's gone. It's here and it's gone. So I think they have to pour it on. If they don't pour it on, it's just a blip.

If they pour it on and really double down and really put focus on it, then I think it has a chance of being very effective. Mark Vandegrift Good. Yeah. I think what I'm starting to learn as I talk to what I would call the kids around the office because they're younger than me, they really identify with the sweet drinks, right?

Lorraine Kessler Yes. Yeah. Mark Vandegrift They come in and if they're Dunkin' drinkers, I almost guarantee ya there's twenty shots of this and Pepsi in that and it's a much sweeter drink than what we're used to. So it would be I don't know, maybe when I was younger I did sweeter drinks, but I don't recall that.

And it would be interesting to do a study. As you get older, do you like start getting rid of the sugar just 'cause your doctor tells you or do your taste change or do we have general generational taste differences? Lorraine Kessler Well, I think just as Americans, we are over sugared beyond belief. And I'll give you an example.

As an Italian American, when we make sauce or spaghetti gravy, it's not sweet. We don't add sugar. Most people don't. If you go to Italy, the sauce isn't sweet.

But you go to any restaurant here in the US that is Italian American, Southern Italian American that does a red sauce and it's sweet, sweet, sweet. I feel it's super sweet. And even chocolate, you know, you've traveled internationally. If you get real chocolate from Holland, it's not sweet like our chocolate.

No. So Americans I think are I and we've had nurses tell us it's like cocaine. I mean, it's extremely addictive. And one thing I've noticed, if you start to remove sugar from your diet, then you're more sensitive to it and you crave it less.

But I do think we have a problem and I think our our young people, the fact that they do crave these drinks is not altogether good, but that is where they are. Mark Vandegrift Yep. Yep. Well, let's get to the next brand, this is also a bit unhinged, but the brand is like that.

It's Dr. Squatch. And if our listeners don't know Dr. Squatch, it may be because it's very specific.

It's all natural, personal care products for men. So it incorporates a ton of humor. I mean, the name Dr. Squatch, you kind of have to go that route, right?

And entertainment is just knit into its videos and its advertising and its online platforms and everything. So for a product category that would normally settle on traditional advertising, focusing on the benefits or the sense, you know, if you go to male products, I think Dr. Squatch is doing a good job taking it a step further and to your point about the medium reaching the younger generations. So Lindsey's gonna throw some examples up on the screen again for our audience.

But Lorraine, let me cue you up with this question. What are your thoughts on this Dr. Squatch approach and the advertising within a category that is much more traditional than, say, some of the newer category categories we've talked about? Lorraine Kessler Yeah, I think talk about differentiation.

You know, we have sometimes I think error on the side of talking about positioning and differentiation as kind of a strategy in terms of what you stand for versus the competition and I'm not getting rid of that. But what I'm saying is sometimes the creative itself is part of the differentiation, how you communicate your differentiated message is as important. You can have a very differentiated strategy and deliver it in an extremely boring way, and that's not going to work. So the creative is as much a part of the differentiation as the idea itself.

I feel like what they're doing is really great because there's a little shock value in some of their ads like the Megan Fox with the sex appeal and I love that line. She says, let's face it, some things should be should change after middle school. I thought that was a great line. So we're definitely appealing to that age group.

I have a grandson. Mark Vandegrift Well that was attack on axe, don't you think? Lorraine Kessler Yes, yes. And I have absolutely and I have a grandson in that age group, and so I know this would appeal to him.

Then there's another one, Dirty Little Boys, right? They oughta maybe pair with the dirty, Dunkin' Dirty soda. I don't know, maybe there's something there. Mark Vandegrift Yeah.

There you go. Lorraine Kessler Yeah, we had two dirties going on. So they're using a little shock value in a fun way. It's very on Madison Avenue.

and that's great because it feels very natural. My preferred spot was their very long, almost infomercial approach with the natural soap ad. With the guy with the beard and the, you know, and all the characters that came. I was completely I mean, I watched every minute of that, enthralled.

It was very informative. It was entertaining. I never lost interest. I even had to ask myself afterwards how long was that spot?

It seemed like it was a sitcom. But it was it was really excellent. So I think you have a new you have a new product which is a new take on soap and other male hygiene products. So you need to break it's really great that they broke the conventional orthodoxy of a straightforward kind of advertising approach.

They took a very untraditional approach focused on engagement and entertainment, but they were able to deliver the message through that. And that's an art. To have the entertainment connect to the idea, the positioning idea, and deliver it. That's that takes art and it takes tremendous skill and focus.

Mark Vandegrift Well, let's jump to that. What are some risks that brands should consider before jumping into humor or unhinged content? Lorraine Kessler Well, what are some of the risks? I think the biggest risk and we've seen all the time is the entertainment becomes the thing.

It doesn't become the vehicle by which you deliver the message or the passengers, let's say, right? It becomes the thing and there's no delivery at the end. and that we know ends up where we've asked people at different parties, right? Well, great, I love that ad.

What was the brand? What was the product? They can't tell you. Right?

Mark Vandegrift Yeah. Yeah. Lorraine Kessler Okay. So I mean that's symptomatic and more often than not that is the problem.

That happens because the creatives get I feel like it takes two minds. It takes the right brain and left brain working together. You need a left brain person who's really focused on what it is we're trying to deliver strategically and you need the right brain person who's more creative, who's really thinking about how do we engage people so that they're paying attention, that we break through. But we know at the end we have to deliver that message because the two are working together.

And so often in a lot of shops, as you know, agencies tend to be many tend to be creatively driven or run. And so that left brain rational side that's this is the strategy gets lost. Mark Vandegrift Yeah. Well, speaking about, you know, the right messaging, conveying the right brand, we always talk about long-term branding.

And we have two, I would say, very contrasting brands that we've talked about so far. Dunkin' Donuts, been around forever, but they reinvented themselves. And you have Dr. Squatch, which is completely, you know, relatively new brand.

So let's talk about long-term brand building. Can this kind of let's call it dirty marketing, because that was the fun word we use, or chaotic or unhinged marketing, can that be beneficial for the long-term brand growth, or is it more of what you would call short-term tactic that's just to grab attention? Lorraine Kessler I think if they stick with it, if they continue to pour it on, right, and that means you have to run a lot of advertising in whatever media and maybe add to that digital.

I mean it's all digital today, but add to that maybe TV or video that's seen while people are viewing shows on streaming, which is a little more traditional there they really have to pour it on and they have to kind of you know get a symphonic approach to the brand so they're not just picking and choosing media because it reaches certain demographics. We have to remember that in all brand build there's a core audience who cares a lot about what you do. And they may even be called an Uber fascinated audience who become your Uber loyalists.

But there's a huge there are rings, co-centric rings of people who are listening. They're listening both to the Uber buyer and to the echo sphere. And to be really successful and become mass and sustain, you have to you have to have those I guess demographics or I hate to use s demographics, those people who are listening, you need to bring them into the fold. And so I think you just need to use more media more often and be constant.

I mean, we've always talked about consistency and constancy, and that's what it takes. Otherwise it is here today, gone tomorrow, and like I'm telling you, like yesterday's funny video on TikTok that everybody commented on is forgotten by, you know, next week. Even next even tomorrow. So you can't you can't count on that.

Yeah. Mark Vandegrift Yeah. Yep. Well, speaking of demographics, do you think this type of marketing is perceived differently among different generations?

Lorraine Kessler Yes, I really believe that this connects with younger generations because they've grown up with a different idiom. We grew up in a I certainly grew up in a different idiom. When the president was on, he was on all three channels, no one was seeing Flipper that night, okay? 'Cause he was on everywhere.

We had three channels. We were used to that true broadcast. There was no narrow casting and there's good and bad about that. But this is a totally different idiom and it's the idiom that they've grown up with.

It's not just that it's a new idiom and that makes it attractive. It's that they've grown up with it. They don't know anything else. And so it very much speaks to who they are.

And that's why I mean the media is the message is more true today than ever before, because where you're seeing by these be by these young people is a cred. Like it's more credible to be seen on TikTok as if they discovered it than if it's on mom and dad's streaming TV show, right? So yeah. Mark Vandegrift Yep.

You were talking about the I would call fanatics or the brand loyalists, things like that. Do you think this unhinged marketing does a good job of building loyal customers? And I'm not talking about the fanatics. I think there's some that are wild.

I mean, they're like, you know, I got Ohio State on today. I'm a fanatic for Ohio State, but pick a brand, I'm not going to become a fanatic that for that brand, but I might be a loyal customer. Do you think this type of marketing can create that loyal that middle level? They're loyal, but they're more than listeners, but they're less than fans.

Lorraine Kessler Again, only by frequency and repetition and volume. I mean you just have to be seen and heard a lot and to become to take up that kind of space in a mind, even for the fringe people who come in, they have to have confidence in the brand when they're ready to buy. And they have to and they're looking at others for you know, social approval like their peers. But if you're here and gone and you're not sustaining that, then you're not going to see the result that you want in terms of loyalty.

And, you know, then you're in this terrible business of trying to produce customers for all those you've lost. And then what would happen to me is at that point now you could devolve into gimmickry in your gimmicks in your advertising that are less authentic. I think part of the juice of what's going on is there's an authenticity to some of this. It feels very natural like the like the spot Dr.

Squatch, you know, with the man in the woods and in his infomercial. I mean it just feels like some high school kids shot that commercial, right? And they didn't script it. They just kind of had an idea, gave it to the actor and he kind of okay, I gotta get these points out.

And there's so there's a beauty to that. But if you are now constantly trying to produce new customers, there's an angst because you're losing so many. there's an angst to that and I think then you'll try anything and that could be very dangerous. Mark Vandegrift Yeah, and I mean, speaking of danger, we've seen a lot of brands lean too far into humor that doesn't land and then it creates confusion or even loses sight, as you were saying earlier, of a brand's identity.

So maybe speak to that a little bit because we've seen a ton of that in the past. Lorraine Kessler Right. Yeah, I mean, first of all, humor's very, very hard to do well. You ask any comedian and we'll tell you humor's very hard.

The idea that someone in an ad agency can come up with brilliant humorist ideas that deliver consistently is to me, I, there's a great documentary now on Martin Short, who I happen to love. Mark Vandegrift Oh, that was awesome. I love that. Lorraine Kessler Marty, life is short.

If you haven't watched it people, please do. What a God lesson in that man. But you know, he says it's he was telling people it's and he quoted different statistics twice in that show, but he said it's like ninety percent failure, ten percent stick. I mean, you better be prepared if you're gonna use humor.

You have a nine out of ten chance of like missing the mark. And we all know humor's so subjective. Someone could love one comedian and you know, when you could talk to your best friend, they don't that it doesn't connect. So I'm not saying that advertisers should avoid humor.

I'm just saying it's a cautionary tale, and they really need to pay attention. And this is an area where maybe testing could be very beneficial. Yeah. Mark Vandegrift Yep.

Good. Well, you know, you think of this marketing approach as maybe non-traditional. But at the end of the day, it still has a drive engagement. Do you think this is gonna drive more like short term results, or do you think this can be a long term sales trend and for both of these brands that we're talking about?

Lorraine Kessler Well, I'd like for me, I'd like to see them get onto the big stage. It seems to me they're playing a lot of like comedians play small theaters. Right? Small comedy clubs and they build a fan base and then and then they finally they make the big stage and then they go back to their small club and it's always kinda cool.

I don't think that's much different. I think they gotta get on the big stage. Mark Vandegrift That's a great, yeah, that's a great illustration. Time to get to Madison Square Garden, if you will, right?

Lorraine Kessler Yeah. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift Well, let's wrap up today's episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. Lorraine, thank you for joining us from up north. And thank you to our loyal listeners. Lorraine, you probably don't know this, but we surpassed 5,000 downloads not too long ago.

Lorraine Kessler Wow. That's amazing. Wow. Mark Vandegrift I know 5,000 people have listened to us.

Or five one person 5,000 times. I don't know which. Lorraine Kessler Or two people twenty five hundred times. We're not sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Mark Vandegrift Yeah. So thank you to our loyal listeners for joining us today.

And don't forget to like, share with a friend, and of course, subscribe, subscribe. Shout up from a mountaintop. And until next time, have an amazing day.