Building Digital Accessibility and Breaking Down Cultural Barriers for Disabled Individuals with Ablr Co-Founder & CEO John Samuel (S9E09)

Welcome to Brand on Purpose, the podcast dedicated to uncovering the untold stories behind the most impactful purpose-driven companies and organizations. I'm your host, Aaron Quickin. According to a recent Accenture study, companies who hired people with disabilities outperformed their peers and saw a wide variety of improvements. These businesses saw a 72% increase in productivity, 45% improved workplace safety, 30% higher profit margins and 200% higher net income.

Our guest today, co-founder of Abler, John Samuel, is passionate about providing accessibility and technology. Through his own experience at the degenerative eye condition, John learned there was a need for solutions regarding digital accessibility across all industries. He co-founded Abler, that's A-B-L-R, a digital accessibility and inclusion company to provide organizations the tools and resources that break down accessibility and cultural barriers along the way. John, welcome to Brand on Purpose.

Thank you so much, Aaron. It's so great to be here with you today. It's an honor. Well, it's really an honor for me.

And just so our listeners know, John and I met just a few months ago at GW at an event hosted by the Alumni Association where they gave out the Spirit of GW Awards. And John was a recipient of the Spirit of GW Award and sitting in the audience and listening. And not only was I thinking, John, man, I'm not worthy to share this stage with you. I was just so moved and touched by your story.

So I think that's actually a really good place to start. And hopefully you won't move me to tears again. But if you do, no one will be able to. I'll be able to do this privately because this is all recorded.

But why don't you start there? And then I've got a ton of questions for you. Yeah. So, you know, when we met a couple of months ago at GW Dispute Award event, it was like almost this culmination of the last 10 years of my life because I ended up going to GW and to do my MBA in 2012.

And at the time, I was losing my sight. And I kept it a secret from a lot of people because I was ashamed and embarrassed of it. I had had this career that had taken me around the globe from India to New York City to across Africa. But 10 years ago, when I came to GW, I was still keeping the secret of not being able to see.

And I was at this orientation event where we had assigned seats where we were supposed to go sit and I couldn't see. So I turned to the person next to me and it happened to be Liesl Riddle, who was the associate dean of the business school at the time. And she was actually the one who had recruited me to come to GW. And she had no idea I couldn't see.

And when I started talking about my vision loss, she's like, you have to be open about this. And she could empathize with me because her son actually had special needs. And she encouraged me to be open about my vision loss with my classmates. And I said, that was the first time I could honestly be my true and authentic self.

And I was able to open up my heart for the very first time. And I met my wife in the MBA program. But even though I was open about my vision loss and my personal life at this time, I still thought employers would see it as a liability. And so I kept it a secret to them.

And I didn't know how to advocate for myself. I didn't know how to disclose. and I struggled to find a job. And eventually I found a job with an emerging market investment firm, a fintech firm, but that company folded and I was out of a job again.

But now I had a wife, I had a baby and we had just built house in the DC area. And if anyone who knows, these things are not cheap. And I thought my career was over, you know, and the stress of it all caused my site to go even faster. And up until this point, I was able to get by with just inverted colors or magnification software.

But at this point, nothing worked. And I thought my career was over. And it was around this time that I heard about this software that was developed at a company called SAS, which is a data science company. And they had designed this software to help people who are blind and low vision visualize graphs and chart-to-choosing sounds.

And I thought it was so cool. But the coolest thing about it was, it was designed by this gentleman named Ed Summers who had the same eye condition as me. And he lived in my hometown of Cary, North Carolina. And it was a place I never thought anyone blind could ever live.

And I tried for months to get in touch with him without any luck. And finally, my wife said, if he can live in North Carolina, maybe we can't too. So we found a house online, told my folks, and they got so excited. And my dad immediately jumped in the car to go look at this house.

And as he's driving, he's talking to us on the phone. And he started yelling at something. I was like, what are you doing, Dad? He's like, oh, there's a blind guy in the road.

Maybe he's the guy you're trying to get in touch with. He's like, oh, Dad, don't yell at blind people in the road. And he's like, all right, gets out of the car, walks over this poor guy and says, are you Ed Summers? And the guy says, yes, I am.

And my dad puts the phone in this poor guy's ear. And after apologizing to him, he agreed to meet me. And I came down that next weekend and agreed to meet me. And the 30-minute conversation turned to three hours.

And he introduced me to the world of accessibility and showed me that my career wasn't over. And most importantly, he introduced me to an organization called LCI, which happened to be the largest employer of people who are blind. And I joined that company tasked with creating a new business that would create upper mobility for people who were blind. And I think it's that the work I've been doing there that helped me get that spirit of award at GW.

Wow. So if you don't mind me asking, let's just go back just one second. What kind of degenerative eye condition do you have? And at what point in your life did it start to emerge?

Yeah, so I have a eye condition called retinitis pigmentosa, RP for short. And essentially what I was doing is taking away my rods and cones that help process light and provide information to your retina. And I was diagnosed when I was in college. And, you know, at that time as a 18, 19 year old kid, I just didn't know how to handle it.

And when I found out the news, my actions led to me falling out of college. And it was really just a challenging time of my life. And like I mentioned, I kept it literally a secret for 12 years until I joined GW and started talking about it openly. we're going to get to the product side of accessibility and empowering people through technology, because that's obviously incredibly important.

But if you don't mind talking also a little bit about the cognitive and the psychological side of this, because I imagine you're not the only person to try to hide it for one reason or another and or maybe be in denial. And are there resources for folks as well that help to also have them process this emotionally and mentally and culturally in addition to professionally and technically? Yeah, you know, I think there are resources out there. And I think when you first find out when I was diagnosed and my doctor told me, you know, when I found out that I'm going blind, it's hard.

I mean, if you don't know anyone, you don't know anyone who can empathize because at that point I had never met another person with a disability, needless to say, blind. And it just stopped me in my tracks. And I was like, I mean, what girl wants to be the guy who can't see? What kind of job can I have if I'm blind?

Or, you know, where can I live? And these kinds of questions constantly consume me. And I know this is the case for many people. And you talk about the cultural aspect.

My family is of Indian descent. And culturally, it was almost like, we do not talk about this. This is going to be a secret. My parents couldn't accept it.

They couldn't accept it. I couldn't accept it. And so So in many ways, I felt very alone. I didn't know who to talk to.

And only things really changed when I met that guy, Ed Summers, who I mentioned in the story. And Ed, you know, he could empathize with what I was going through because he actually was almost just 10 years ahead of me and my vision loss. And so I think that's something that it's finding people who can empathize. And for me, I kept these blinders on.

Even though there's people probably around me who are blind or going through some type of going through their own disability or challenges, I just couldn't. open up myself to identify as having a disability. And I think that hindered me from actually looking out and finding resources to help me cope and navigate And I think I was my own biggest barrier Yeah which I think is probably often the case right You have to get out of your own way first in order to find your way forward.

Exactly right. Yeah, I was one holding myself back. And I wasn't open to talking to folks, right? Because I wasn't dumb, right?

It was almost like the othering of people, right? When I was actually part of this community that I was really kind of keeping at arm's length. And I think if I had really embraced it and learned more about what resources and tools were out there, I think I'd have a lot less cuts and bruises on my shins and face because I would have really embraced how to be blind. Yeah.

When I introduced you at the start of the show, I talked about, and somewhat non-emotionally, the positive componentry associated with, or the business benefits of associated with companies who hire people with disabilities. And I cited, you know, Accenture survey. What I didn't do, and correct me if I'm wrong, is I didn't talk about the flip side, which is the high unemployment rate that people with disabilities suffer. And last I heard, I think it's an 80 to 90% range, and it could be higher.

I don't know. You probably know better than I. Yeah, it's around that 80%, right? When we talk about the 20 to, yeah, 80% around 20% unemployment rate.

I mean, the employment is 20%, 80% unemployment. And I think that also kind of led to me not wanting to tell people, right? Was that my own story was that when I looked at what a leader looked like, a leader wasn't somebody with a disability. So I didn't want to identify with it.

But then, you know, I actually had an education, I had experience and I had privilege. And that really has driven a lot of my actions afterwards, because I knew the challenges of trying to navigate a job with all of those things. And I was like, what about other people who don't have that? Because you talk about that unemployment rate, how high it is, but you have to look at the education, right?

Only like 15% of people who are blind actually get a job, who have a college degree, right? Then it kind of leads into like, if you don't have the education, how are you going to get the employment? And so there's a systemic barrier there. And I think that's kind of the thing.

It's like, you need education. And from education, you need awareness. And that's what we're trying to change. Yeah.

And I would venture to guess that that 15% college degrees that is even lower, because you would have to strip away folks who, like yourself, progressively lost their sight over time, and they might have already had a college degree, right? So it's actually probably even more dire, right? That's correct, right? Because like myself, right?

Even though I was diagnosed at the time, I was able to get that undergrad. But you're right, you know, folks who lose their sight or gain a disability earlier in life, you know, sometimes they're put into different schools, right? Like there are schools for the blind where individuals may be put into, where they may not have access to some of the courses and classes and trainings. And I think that's some of the challenges, right?

Now, a lot of individuals are in mainstream schools, but are they given access to all the education and training and experiences? That I don't know. And that's something that, again, these workforce development programs and things that if they're not built with accessibility in mind, you're going to exclude a lot of people and that's going to cause that systemic issues. So that's a great segue to where we are today.

You had this burgeoning career in business prior to joining LCI. When you joined, and I believe LCI is the largest employer of people with disabilities in the world, and they're a technology company, So they make products, right? They're a tech company. You joined and you somehow, although this is not surprising to me, convince them that they should allow you to build an entire division devoted towards improving accessibility for people who are blind using technology.

And that's when Abler was born. Yeah. It's so funny when you say it that way, because actually LCI is actually a manufacturing company. And so they make 2,500 products.

They make everything from file folders to mattresses to tactical assault gear, primarily for the federal government. So anyone working in the federal government, they're probably using a product that is made at an LCI facility. But, you know, manufacturing is a wonderful and noble profession, but it's not necessarily the right job for all people. And so when I came on board, I knew from my own lived experiences, the challenges I faced in terms of digital accessibility, because I couldn't even apply for jobs online, right?

When I was finishing up my MBA, most of my classmates were more nervous about their interviews, while I was stuck in just trying to fill out an online application. And I mean, it would bring me to tears all the time, because I'd be like, I can start businesses, I can work. climb mountains, but I can't even complete an online application. And so when I had the opportunity to start this new business, I was like, that's the first thing we need to address is that we need to address all of these barriers in terms of online digital accessibility, because all of our jobs now, some sort of tech is touching it.

And if we don't make it accessible, we're going to leave a lot of people out. And I knew the pain from that. And that's what drives me to remove that for others. And how did you meet LCI to begin with?

How did that whole thing start? Yeah. So as I mentioned, when I met that guy, Ed Summers, he introduced me to the president of LCI because after meeting him, I was really trying to figure out what am I going to do with my career? And Ed had told me a couple of things.

He's like, if you want to continue your career trajectory, you're going to have to learn to learn as someone who's blind and you're going to have to be open about your vision loss with potential employers. And so in the summer of 2017, I started to reach out. He's like, you should reach out to all these companies with diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. So I was looking at jobs in the Raleigh-Durham market.

And I reached out to all these companies who had a DEI program and not a single company got back to me. And I was like, what's happening here, right? Like, I just didn't feel like I checked the box that they wanted to check off. You know, disabilities wasn't something they were looking at.

And so I started thinking about like, what can I do with my, like as a career now, like I see that Ed Summers has this great career. What can I do? And I don't know if you've heard of the shoe company called Tom Shoes, the, you know, buy a pair, get a pair. So yeah.

And I love the model of Tom's, but typically everywhere I go, I have a pair of sunglasses because I need them for my eyes. And I was like, I want to make sunglasses, but instead of having them, you know, giving a pair of sunglasses to someone in need, I want to have them made by somebody who's blind. Because if I give someone a job, I give them hope in this generational impact. And so that's when Ed Summers introduced me to LCI, the president of LCI.

And I only wanted to learn about manufacturing and the president wanted to talk about creating tech-based jobs. So it worked out really well. And what was your first role at LCI? luckily I came in tasked with create this new business there was no guidelines there was no real they said create a new business that would create upper mobility and so I came in and you know I was still learning how to be blind and that meant I had to learn how to use assistive technology like a screen meter we talked about just like the mental aspect I was still coming to grips I was still learning how to use a cane so as I was learning to be blind I was also trying to figure out what did the blind community need in terms of creating a business.

And I started that in September, 2017. I came in onto the, you know, I joined LCI and I spent the first like three months, four months, just really researching and understanding kind of the market landscape for businesses in the disability community. And it was by March of 2018 that I realized that accessibility was where we going to start And I hired my first team members and we spent really the first year of 2018 learning how to perform digital accessibility testing and the guidelines and everything we needed to.

And we really refined our processes and procedures in 2018. And by 2019, we were starting to generate revenue. And it sounds like you sell both a combination of then services and training and modules, as well as technologies to companies. That's correct.

With the ultimate goal of diversifying the workforce to include more people with disabilities, whether it's IDD or neurodiverse, physical, like you said. Yeah, exactly. And so our mission at Abler is how do we remove the barriers for people with disabilities in all aspects of life? And so we realized there was three things we had to do.

The first thing we had to do was that digital accessibility, as we've been talking about. We had to make sure that all tech and online experiences were accessible. The second line of our business is disability inclusion. And we had to change the mindsets of people and organizations.

And so through our disability inclusion training modules, we developed these five modules that really kind of humanize what it means to understand about disabilities. We go through the history of disabilities. We go through disability etiquette. How do you engage with individuals?

We go through the business case for disability inclusion. We talk about accommodations and how you implement them. And then assistive technologies. So that five module kind of education piece is a really big part of changing the mindset because we want organizations to set people up for success.

And the third line of our business is what we call creating pathways for employment, which we're doing through our workforce development program. And this is where we're training individuals with disabilities to get job ready and to enter the workforce. And so you can think about it from the digital accessibility and our disability inclusion. that side of our business is really building up the demand for talent with disabilities.

And then our workforce development program is to build up the supply to meet that demand. Yeah, I was just going to say, it's so unusual to have an organization that's able, that's why you're called Abler, to focus on both the supply and demand. Because, you know, usually you over-index on one or the other, right? But you're actually, you're working on both, which I think is really smart.

And on the demand side, when I think about companies, are there certain characteristics of companies that you find across the board that are more open to being allies and empowering and really committed, truly committed to DE&I versus just kind of checking boxes? I'm sure you're starting to see trends and like certain criteria and characteristics and attributes of companies emerge over the years now as you've been working to bring them on board. Yeah. No, we've been seeing a lot of that.

And so I like to categorize organizations in a couple of ways. It's like they need to get it, they need to want it, and they need to have the capacity to do something about it, right? And so this get it, want it, and capacity to do something about it really kind of translates to the kind of clients we work with. Because we are definitely going to get the clients who are just coming to us because they just want to check the box.

But then the organizations who we're seeing some really kind of inroads in are the organizations who are not just worried about their external facing digital content, like their external website or whatever, their social media, but really kind of focusing in on how do we make sure that we're setting up employees for success internally? How are we making sure that their onboarding experience is right? Because they know how important it is when you onboard somebody. If they have a good onboarding experience, then they're more likely to stay.

And those organizations now that we're seeing are committed to making sure that employees journey mapping is accessible and accommodating or that customer journey mapping is accessible and accommodating. Those are the companies we're seeing. So we're seeing more of those coming. And some of these organizations, these are the organizations you really get it.

They're living and breathing their DEI kind of journey, right? They actually, they understand where they are in terms of a maturity model and they're actually taking steps to do it. And then, like I said, I mean, we're seeing more and more of these and that's exciting and they are big and they're small. So I don't want to kind of pigeonhole and say, well, it's only the large ones are doing it, but we're seeing the smaller organizations do it as well.

But it is exciting to see some of the larger organizations doing this because they have the capacity of really employing a lot of people. Yeah. And I mean, look, I think depending on their values or their real and lived values, not the ones they throw up on a poster in a conference room, there are real tangible business benefits to retention and morale where you can actually surface your values by having a far more diverse workforce that you can support. So I imagine there's a lot of benefit there.

Now, are you primarily coming in through the HR and the people team or are you coming in through a different vector inside these organizations? Yeah. So we're coming through the HR. We're coming through IT.

And if they have a DEI kind of separate, those are where we're really coming in. And some of the large organizations actually have an HR IT team, which has been interesting to see how we come in through. Because they're seeing how HR and IT are so intertwined now. And that if they want to make sure that it's an accessible experience for their people, then that's how they're bringing us on.

And again, we also get the leadership. You know, some leadership members are like, hey, this is part of our mission. we want to do this. In terms of large organizations, the organizations that have employee resource groups, those employee resource groups are bringing us on saying, look, we need to do this.

And so it's multi-pronged in terms of how we're coming on board. Whereas before I was chasing down organizations and, you know, jumping up and down and kicking and screaming saying, you need to think about this. Now we're kind of seeing that shift, I'd say within the last 12 months in particular, where they've said, we want you to come in. And they're being more proactive about their disability experience?

This is going to seem like it might be an odd question, but when I think about inclusivity, I think DE and INV, and I think about big inclusivity and so much of inclusivity for lots of different reasons was focused specifically on, like you said, employee resource groups. And a lot of it is around race and ethnicity. And it's more than that, right? And this is a great example of that.

But also these companies are also at the same time, I'm not saying we should feel sorry for them, I'm just saying they're also trying to figure out, oh, and how do we address sustainability and how do we address this? There's so many demands on companies now. Do you feel like you have to compete against other componentry associated with ESG, DE&I and any other acronym I can come up with? Because everything's important, right?

And these companies are trying to prioritize and resource against these things. And I was just wondering from your perspective, because you're focused in one area in particular, whether or not you feel like there's like there's both a competition for attention and resources and time against all the other mutualities that these companies are pursuing. Yeah, I think I did feel that a few years ago because organizations were like, oh, we only have a certain amount of resources, our time or to be able to allocate to this.

And we have these other goals that we're working on. And that was the case before. But now I think that when we start to think about this intersectionality of all of this, right, you know, when you think about diverse workforces, disabilities crosses everything, right, all different types of identities. We joke and say that the disability community is the most inclusive group of people because we'll take you at any time in your life.

And it may only be for a little bit of time. You may be temporarily disabled, but, you know, we'll accept you at that point. And I think that organizations are seeing that the intersectionality of this. And I also think that when you think about the aging population and how a lot of it is now we have individuals who are older in the workforce and they're more likely to have a disability, the organizations are now seeing it, right?

And at the end of the day, you kind of have to follow the money. And when you think about 26% of the population having a disability, that's a big piece of the population you can't neglect, right? And so I think that one of the things In terms of the other goals ESG goals you know I think we still have the social component of it in terms of disability rights and experiences So I think there more organizations are seeing the value and it goes back to follow the dollars. So when we think about the business case, you talked about the Accenture report and how companies do well when they do employ people with disabilities, that helps.

And then from a risk perspective, I mean, we can't avoid this. There is a risk mitigation component of making sure that people with disabilities are being included, that you have to protect yourself as well. I wonder, we were talking about, you know, HR systems and they're called HRIS systems, right? So the Namelys, UKGs, Workdays of the World, are you working with them as well to modularize and put plugins and widgets into their systems and training inside of their systems?

Is that the next major frontier? Is that already happening or is that that's part of the path to progress there? It's starting to happen and that is part of that's a main part of this pathway right you're starting to see where they you know they're bringing in more accessibility into the forefront UKG we've been working with UKG that's what LCI uses and even today right I can't even you know request time off by myself because it's just not it may be technically accessible but it's not usable for me, right?

I have to rely on my wife to do that for me and to do my team evaluations. And so as we think about it, individuals with disabilities, not just being employees, but being managers and leaders of organizations, that's why we need to really kind of focus in on this. And a lot of organizations, they take feedback from the clients. And this is one of the things I've been talking to organizations, like there's several blind organizations out there and we need to start to come together and use our numbers, right?

Each organization can't be talking to UKG or Workday in silos and saying, let's customize my experience. But rather, these organizations, we need to be talking as a group and saying, we need this to be accessible. And it's going to benefit all of us. And so that is part of the journey.

And we're working on it. But like you said, we need the HRIS systems to be accessible because it touches every experience of an employee, right from onboarding to training and development to retirement right you need to be able to access your systems and when we talk about security cyber security and protecting my data and accessibility that goes very hand-in-hand with security right well and that actually leads me into i'd like to close with a two-part question if i can in a world where you have that overlap with things like cyber security driverless cars gpt chat generative ai all these exciting new and emerging technologies, part one, can you talk about what are the technologies now that are available for folks like yourself in your community?

And the second part is what are the technologies you'd like to see developed? What are the dream technologies that you'd like to see PE firms and venture capital firms and public benefit corporations start to build and develop? You know, right now, when we talk about kind of the technology that's kind of shaped, really changed our experience as somebody with a disability over the last several years, I have to go to the drive share apps, right? Like an Uber or a Lyft.

We talk about the transportation barrier being such a big issue when it comes to terms of employment, education, or, you know, entertainment. Having access to Lyft and Uber has changed my life. It's allowed me to come back home to North Carolina, for instance, right? I thought I could only live in urban communities where I could have access to public transportation.

All of a sudden, we're making rural communities more accessible because we can access cars and transportation. And so that's something that I think is, I mean, it's game changing, right? Having this kind of access. And so even sticking to that transportation barrier, you know, you and I, we received our, the GW Spirit Award with another amazing leader, Aisha Evans, right?

The CEO of Zooks, which is an autonomous vehicle company. And like autonomous vehicles, I talk about transportation being that systemic barrier that's hindering a lot of experiences, the more we can get people out and about in the community and feel comfortable by providing autonomous vehicles, providing access to transportation, we will then have more people, I think, in at stores and restaurants. Because I often talk about how proximity builds empathy, but there's 26% of the population who has a disability, but we may not see them because a lot of people are staying at home because they just don't have access to get out.

But once companies start to invest in autonomous vehicles and breaking down these kind of systemic barriers, we're going to have more empathy and understanding. And I think that will lead to people designing new products. So if we can take care of that transportation barrier first, I think other things will change. And we'll have more people with disabilities at the table, which will, you know, helping decide where venture capital and PE are putting their money.

Yeah. And I do feel like the tech companies, broadly speaking, Apple, Google, Microsoft have been also embedding and doing more in terms of enabling technologies right for people with disabilities i see that just as someone who right i see that constantly yeah but you know it goes back to take microsoft for instance you know their ceo has a child with a disability and so he brought a new level of empathy into the company right and when leaders and companies say look we want to focus on accessible we want to create these more inclusive experiences that's how we change a lot of things but then you know apple and they're seeing the benefits of it, business case for it, by creating an accessible experience for one group of people with disabilities, which is necessary, it benefits all people.

And that's what's really cool, because I think tech is the great neutralizer, a great equalizer. And that's what we're seeing. Yeah. And at the same time, hopefully, more and more companies will continue to recognize that they have a much greater responsibility to the communities in which they operate and their workforce and their workplace.

Whereas, you know, 10, 15 years ago, a lot of these topics or discussions either never surfaced or they're a taboo alongside social issues, right? Everything's important, right? And then how you prioritize and how do you make sure that you de-stigmatize topics like these inside corporates, understand that they have a responsibility to address them both within their workforce, but also if they have the power to create new products and services that empower others to have more accessibility than they should do that to, and not get it conflated or confused with political issues or social justice, which is all, they're all important, right?

But sometimes you have this like reaction bias, right? Everything's political, but this is not political. So we're just kind of in this interesting time right now. And I don't know how else this is.

I think we're winning. I think we're winning, but it just feels like a lot of work. It feels like a big battle, you know, constantly. And it was just such a pleasure to be able to meet you.

and serendipitous. And that was a great example of proximity leads to empathy because had I not met you, you wouldn't be here today. Wouldn't be able to help, you know, tell your story, spread your story, which is so incredible. And I just think you're a treasure.

Everything you're doing is really, really so inspiring for so many of us. So I really appreciate it. I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Aaron.

I wish you luck and a great holiday season, even though we're probably going to be broadcasting this post-holidays. I still wish you a great holiday season. Thank you. Thank you again.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Brand on Purpose, a podcast dedicated to uncovering the untold stories by the most impactful, purpose-driven companies, organizations, and people. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Special thanks to our production team, including Maria Bias, Michael Grubbs, Anna Lamb, Haley Sackett, and Nina Valdez. Learn more about our show, sponsorship opportunities, and host by emailing BOP at kwtglobal.

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