The Missing Conversation in Every Open Enrollment

riverside_tia_& kelsey_beyond_the paycheck === Hi everyone, and welcome to Beyond the Paycheck, where we bring you candid conversations with CHROs and people leaders who are rethinking how compensation and benefits impact far more than just employee bank accounts. From the first paycheck to financial wellness programs, we explore how money shapes identity, equity, purpose, and power at work, and how forward-thinking companies are using pay and perks to transform lives. This podcast is presented by Aura Finance, a psychology-based financial wellness employee benefit that combines coaching and financial management.

Now, let's get started and jump in with our next guest. Welcome, Tia Larsen, Director of Benefits at FJ Management. We're so excited to have you this Monday morning. To kick us off, I'd love for you to share a little bit about your background, your career, and where you're calling in from today.

Hi, Kelsey. I'm excited to be here as well. So I have been overseeing benefits or compensation for probably about 16 years now. I've been in the HR field.

Um, I'm calling in from Salt Lake City, Utah. It's bright and early this beautiful Monday morning. Yeah. And tell us, can you tell us a little bit about FJ Management itself?

Yeah. So FJ Management is a parent company to a lot of different organizations. So our biggest company that we manage benefits, we do a lot of the shared services for, that is Maverik, so they're a convenience store. If you're from Salt Lake or if you're familiar with Utah at all, they're everywhere within Salt Lake, I mean, within Utah, um, and really everywhere on this, like, West Coast of the United States.

So the other companies that we do, that, that we're the parent company for are, we have a bank called Tab Bank. We have a med spa, so VIO MedSpa. We have some trucking companies, MAV Logistics and Solar Transport. Big West Oil is our refinery that we own as well.

So a lot of different businesses. There's about around 16,500 employees in total, and probably about 12,000, 13,000 of those employees are full-time benefited employees. So a lot to oversee as far as benefits are concerned for a lot of different employees. It, it's exciting.

A lot of different industries. Yeah. And it sounds like, uh, being able to, how do you fill the need of such a diverse population has to be both a challenge and, and something really exciting. But before I get to all those questions, uh, uh, which I certainly have many for you, I wanna back up a little bit and get- Yeah ...

to know you better a little bit more. So if you'll indulge me, I'd love for you to share a little bit about your earliest memory of money. Yeah. I think the earliest memories of money I, I have, you know, just as a young kid trying to earn money to, to be able to spend it, right?

And my earliest methods of earning that money, I would babysit my siblings. I would, you know, at 11 I was able to start babysitting other kids, which I, I think is crazy when I think of 11-year-olds now, and I think of, like, I have a grandchild that's almost 11, and him babysitting other kids, it just floors me. But I was doing it at 11 back when I was growing up. And then I would always As well, I would mow lawns to earn money.

And I remember just the excitement of having that money to spend, and my parents really instilling into me, "Okay, you know, we give so much money, so much of this that you earn to charity. So, you know, give 10% of that to charity, and then be able to save some of that." And my parent... I know it's typical to at least save 10%, but my parents always said, "Only keep what you absolutely need, and then save the rest."

And so, you know, as a kid trying to figure out what do I actually need a- and then as a kid, you don't need as much. But, keeping that little bit of money to spend on candy or go to the store and buy maybe a cassette tape, 'cause those were popular back when I was growing up. Uh, and then, you know, putting the rest in savings and having it for a rainy day or for some big purchase later. How do you think that shaped how you think about security, freedom, or even responsibility?

You know, um, I've thought a lot about that too, and just how my parents, I think, were very integral in helping me kinda understand how to manage money and how to think about savings and that, and what you do with the money once you receive it, right? So now that I'm older, I still give 10% of that to a charitable, uh, as a charitable donation. I also try to make sure that a certain amount goes to savings every time, right? And honestly, as an adult, I think it's a lot harder as a kid because you have a lot that's pulling at your resources, right?

A lot of things that you have to spend your money on. And so, making sure that you still understand that importance of savings, and not just savings for emergency right now, but savings for retirement so that you can eventually retire and have that money later. And I've found that I have to make that automatic. It has to come out first or it gets spent very easily.

So, I try to make sure that I'm saving both for later and for now, and that that happens automatically. And then the rest, unfortunately, goes to bills and everything else that pulls at that. Yeah. You know, but, but being able to save for a rainy day for something that happens now, and then knowing that I'm saving for retirement and have a hopefully a good outlook on retirement, it makes me feel a lot more secure in everyday life.

And knowing that I can, you know, my husband and I can deal with whatever life throws at us. It really reminds me of the concept, the pay yourself first model which I, I've always loved 'cause it puts in your mind that y- you're paying yourself to allocate it rather than just thinking about, "Oh, I have my paycheck. Now I can go spend it." You need to pay yourself first in all the different places that matter, whether it's retirement- Yeah or otherwise.

And it's so easy to spend it, right? Like- Yes. I mean, I, I'm a good Amazon spender, like, like other people as well I'm sure. Mm-hmm.

And so it's easy to go online and find those things that I want and that I want right now, and, and to spend the money. And before you know it, it's gone. And if you don't save first, at least for me, if I don't save first, then it's definitely spent. So you'd mentioned a few jobs that you'd had.

Yeah ... I'm curious what you would consider your first job, and do you recall what you spent on your first paycheck? Wow. Well, I do remember my, what I would consider my first job.

So that was as a cashier for Kmart. Uh- Mm. I don't know that there's even any Kmarts around anymore, but that was my first job. I got it when I turned 16, or close to when I turned 16, during I believe the summer of when I turned 16.

It, I know that I, like I said, just what was ingrained in me, so gave 10% to charity. I put so much in savings. I honestly don't remember what I spent that first check on. I remember being excited that, and feeling that I could be independent of my parents, and that I could go and I...

You know, I probably went out for fast food or something like that, that I didn't have to borrow money from my parents or ask for permission. I'm sure I spent it on gas to go to and from work. It, it may have been to purchase my first CD, who knows? And what do you think, you know, your, how do you think your money story, whether it's, you know, young childhood, whether it, it, it's this philanthropic perspective, it's the conversations with your parents, it's your first job.

How do you think that's impacted how you think about pay and benefits on behalf of your employees? It just, I can relate to my employees a lot in that there's that temptation to spend the paycheck once you get it, right? And to consider that- Instant satisfaction that you receive from a paycheck, that instant gratification to go and spend on the things that maybe you've been waiting for and wanting, and to not necessarily think about how you might need it later on. And so, you know, I think about my parents and how they instilled in me, you've got to put some money away for savings because you don't know what's gonna come down the road.

And I'm truly grateful for that because I grew up also having cousins that seemed to get everything that they wanted, right? Um, have very large Christmases, and as a kid, I was super jealous of that. But looking back, I can see how financially stable my parents always were. And so that's something going into adulthood that I knew that I always wanted.

I wanted that financial stability. I didn't want to live just payche- paycheck to paycheck. Now, I did live paycheck to paycheck, you know, when I first got married, and I got married and had two kids instantly and, and there's all of these things that, that really pull at that money that, that you have to spend it on, and unexpected medical expenses that may come up, and then getting into debt and not being able to pay a credit card off. And so, like I've lived in that realm of feeling uncertain and anticipating that next paycheck and being scared about being able to meet all of the bills that I needed to meet and having to make choices on what I needed to pay and what I didn't need, you know, what I could afford to wait on.

And I truly, when I look back at that, it was a very, like scary and uncertain time for me that I wanted to figure out what I needed to do so that I could better my situation and make sure I wasn't ever in that type of a spot again. And I, you know, not to say I'm perfect in everything that I do, 'cause I still spend money on things that I shouldn't. I still buy things for that gratification right away. But I'm doing the things that were instilled in me from the get-go, too, of saving for myself, saving for an immediate need, saving for like a future need, and paying the bills off, and not having to now, thankfully, not having to choose between what I'm going to pay and what I'm not going to pay, and then being fearful about feeding my family or whatever else that might, may come along.

So yeah, I'm, I'm grateful that I had parents that really instilled that in me and taught me that you don't have to have everything to be happy, and not having the thought that you have to have things to make you happy is... Like you're never gonna be happy if that's what you're concerned about. Yeah, that's a, that's a path that you go down and you realize there's always another thing. Right?

Yeah. That next big thing that you want, right? There's always more. And if that's what you decide is gonna make you happy, you're, you're not gonna...

You gotta find the happiness in the now. Like, what do you have now that you can be happy about? Totally. How do you...

So kind of, uh, transitioning into what's going on today. Yeah. How do you think that pay and benefits break down most often today? ~How do I think that what?

I guess, um, where do you see compensation and benefits breaking down most often today?~ Okay. Whether it's pay equity, understanding total rewards, something else. Yeah.

So I do think that oftentimes people chase base pay the most, right? They're concerned about getting the next job and making more in base pay compensation than the, what they were making previously. And so I've seen people looking at t- at making a job change and not taking everything into consideration. So not taking in the full total compensation package, not looking at not only base pay, but do you have any long-term incentive pay?

Do you have any bonuses that you're receiving? Um, do you have flexibility at your work? I think that's a huge total reward that not everybody's thinking about as a benefit, right? Are you looking at the cost of your benefits and what benefits cover?

Are you looking at your 401(k)contribution and how your employer matches that? And do you take all of that, do employees take all of that into consideration before making that, that jump, right? Because if employees don't take all of that into consideration, they may find out that they jump to the next job and their base pay is lower because maybe their benefits are, are more costly, and so their take-home pay is less than what they anticipated, even though they left for that higher base pay wage, right?

Yeah. So I think that's one of the breakdowns that typically happens i- is employees, people don't really consider the whole perspective of what they're making at their job. Yeah, you know, I'd say this is one of the most common answers I'm hearing, specifically in the past, I would say, about six months. And I, my, my q- follow question to that is why do you believe that total reward statements haven't solved that problem?

I think oftentimes that people don't... One- One ... there's some employers that don't really give that to their employees, right? They're, they don't spend the time to really, review that with employees.

So for example, my employer, I love my employer. The system that we use, the HR system that we use, has a spot where you can go and you can look at your total rewards and how that breaks down, and you can look at your base pay, and you can look at it as a percentage of the benefits that were paid, and that could include not only voluntary benefits, but your mandatory benefits like Social Security a- and Medicare. But employees aren't going there to review those statements, right?

They... Or they may receive it in the mail, but they don't understand how to read that total reward statement. And so I think we could do a better job at really reviewing that with our employees, helping them understand how to read it, helping them understand you know, that total rewards package and what that means for their total pay. Yeah.

It completely makes sense 'cause I think that it has the right intention but clearly there's something getting lost, whether they're overcomplicated, too long, maybe we only receive them once a year and, and that's really not enough to get our attention. Yeah. Um, so it's a, it's just a question I've been, uh, noodling on because clearly there's, there's opportunity to make that, that better 'cause it's- Yeah such a major problem right now. And I do think it's complicated to analyze all of that, right?

Right. When you're looking to make a jump to a different employer, and sometimes it's a difficult conversation to have with that prospective employer in trying to understand, and they may not even understand the benefits themselves, the recruiter, right? To really- ... kinda break that down for the employee on what to expect on, on the cost that they could see.

And so, you know, I think that there's just a lack of understanding. It's not something you're ever taught in school. You're not taught how to look at your total compensation as- Right ... you know, that total compensation package.

You're taught to maybe think about taxes and your current wage, and that really is about it. You know, you've got gross wages and take-home pay, and, and you don't talk a whole lot about the other. So how are you supposed to understand benefits in that total compensation package if you don't have a good employer that really sits down and helps you understand that? Yeah.

I, I find that most people understand their benefits when they need to use them. Yeah. That's when it, it causes you to, to ask the questions, "How do I get it, you know, to take- Yeah ... advantage of them?

What does this mean for me?" Rather than how you think- Yep ... about it when it's not, a dire situation. You know, that's another breakdown that I see as well, right?

So as an employer, we have a lot of education that we do around op- the open enrollment timeframe. We try to provide education all year, but a lot of times it's really right around open enrollment, and then em- and employees don't necessarily need the benefit at the time of open enrollment. Right. And so, you know, they're, they make choices not really understanding what they're going to need for the next year or how that might impact them in the next year.

But then they really need the education and the information, right when they're in that emergency type of situation. And how do we make sure that employees have that information at their fingertips? So I'm really curious, and ~we were talking before, uh, we started this podcast a little bit about benefits that you're particularly proud of.~ So I'm really curious if you've introduced or worked on a benefit where you've seen go from not just attracting talent, but transforming the lives of employees, whether it's your current employer or prior.

Super curious- Yeah ... what happened. So I've been lucky to work for two employers actually that have implemented workplace clinics for their employees. So I was at a past employer called Orbit Irrigation, that's in Salt Lake, and they offered a workplace clinic right there on site for our 300 some odd employees.

And employees could go and they could access the clinic, they could access it during work hours, and it was completely free. And it included some prescriptions as well, including diabetic supplies. And so we saw a lot of people that were drastically impacted by having their diabetic supplies available to them at no cost. So employees that...

You know, there's some employees some people, and it breaks your heart to hear it, that they're choosing between putting food on the table and getting the medication that they need to really manage a disease, a chronic disease that they have. And we particularly saw that with diabetes. And so we had people that would come to our office just in tears, telling us that, you know, they could finally afford to manage their diabetes and take care of themselves, that they finally could go to the doctor and access the supplies that they needed and really manage their own care.

And that was really, like, heartwarming to hear that, that employees didn't have to choose between receiving the care that they needed and putting food on the table for their families. And so I see that too with my current employer at FJ Management. We've got, um, three workplace clinics because we're a lot bigger than my past employer was. Um, th- they're mostly in Salt Lake, so we've also had to look at providing a direct primary care provider for our employees outside of that with the same benefit to be able to access as though it's a workplace clinic.

Uh, it's not free right now. We're looking at, is that something that we do in the future, but it's very low cost. It's $20 copay for employees to really either come to the clinic if they're on our medical plan or go to one of the direct primary care providers that we have available. And I just, like helping people manage their care and take care of themselves really is impactful in their lives, because if they're not taking care of themselves and they're struggling managing a disease like diabetes, that impacts their ability to be productive with work, it impacts their mental health, all sorts of things, right?

It has a large impact on their lives. So that's one of the benefits that I've seen be very impactful. Um, another thing that I could think of that I've had some good employers really implement are valuable intern- and meaningful internships for employees that are looking, that are starting their careers, right? So bringing them on and making sure that they have projects that they're working on, that they're doing meaningful work, that they're making meaningful connections really helps accelerate their career growth for whether they stay with that company or whether they change companies.

So- And so when you're thinking about programs like this- Mm-hmm and it could be either, what's the impact you're looking to make from an organizational perspective? You kinda hinted at it in the second with, it's this kind of retention mechanism. What else is going on for you? And, and does hard ROI matter, or is it also, you know, we want our employees to really just feel better?

Yeah. I mean, you want it to have hard ROI as well, right? So a reason to implement a workplace clinic within your business is to help with potentially your, your benefit cost, right? So hopefully by helping people manage their care, we're decreasing future costs hitting our benefit, our medical plan in particular.

Also just immediate costs if you've got a workplace clinic, that's a cost you can kinda, you can count on. It's gonna be a certain cost every month, right? Every year versus costs for employees going to the emergency room instead of going to a clinic or going to urgent care instead of going to the clinic. So you hope that by implementing something like a clinic, you're also helping decrease the potential claims that are hitting your, your benefit plan, uh, both current and in the future, right?

So a lot of the- Right ... preventive care, a lot of getting people to manage their, their chronic diseases helps with future costs. It's hard to prove that. Right.

The cost that you're avoiding versus the cost that you're seeing right away. But, you know, there's good research out there that says if you help employees manage their care and manage their diseases, that does positively impact future claims. So you're gonna see less in the future. Right.

And then of course with internships, I mean, ideally you are growing the population that's gonna be working at your current organization or somebody that... Like, I've had a lot of HR interns that I've been able to work with. I've been able to give projects. I've been able to help mentor, and I've maintained those connections as they've moved to other employers.

Right. And so being able to network with them, find out what their employers are doing for benefits, like it becomes beneficial as well because then you've got another point of contact. You've, you've got other minds thinking about what can we do uniquely as an employer to attract and retain employees here. Makes a ton of sense.

Thanks for sharing that with me. Yeah. So one of my last questions for you is what compensation and benefits trends are you - do you think are gonna shape the employee experience most over the next year? Yeah.

So, you know, there's a lot going on about pay equity, for example, um, pay transparency. I think those are big. Um, when you think about applying for a job and, I've been at this current employer for about two years. I left a company that I really wasn't happy with, and so I was, I was in a unique position I hadn't been in for a while.

I was without a job because I was not, I was not happy, right? And I knew that I needed to find something where you spend too much of your time working to not be happy. So I knew I needed to find something, and I was looking for roles, and I wasn't willing to apply for roles unless I knew the compensation to expect. I didn't wanna waste their time, and I didn't want them to waste my time.

And so you see that you have to be transparent in what you're going to pay for a position to even attract people to apply for the roles that, that you're advertising, right? Or you're missing out on a lot of good candidates that you could potentially have if you're trying to hide that. Right. And I think, people wanna be paid equally for the jobs that they're doing.

They don't wanna feel like their coworker that may be an opposite gender, that may be, uh, an opposite ethnicity, is making less or more than they are, than you're making for the same role. You wanna know that you're being compensated fairly for the position that, that you're in. You wanna know that you're gonna be rewarded adequately for that as well. And so really understanding that transparency and that equality of pay, and as an employer, putting a, an emphasis on the importance that you place on that, I think is critical.

You know, it's, it's such an important topic, especially even given the cultural changes that are going on in society. People are sharing how much they make, whereas- Yeah ... you know, 10, 15 years ago- It used to be you didn't ... no one would.

Yeah, you- So they're gonna find out anyway, so you might as well- Yeah ... get ahead of it and- Exactly. A- and, you know, growing up, I remember, "Don't tell anybody what you make." Yep.

And it used to be that that's what you heard from HR, right? "Don't discuss your pay." You really can't legally do that, and so employees- Right ... are discussing their pay.

And so what can you do to get ahead of that, knowing that employees have access to information at their fingertips? They can find out- Right ... what other people are paying for the same roles that they're doing within your current company. They can discuss it with each other, and so making sure you're having those compensation discussions and helping employees understand, like, how do you determine what rates you should pay for a position?

How do you ch- determine where somebody falls within, within that compensation range? What they can, what employees can do to move within that range and move to the next position? What skills can they gather? You know, I think having those conversations, it used to be you didn't talk about it.

It was kind of hidden. Right. But you can't hide from anything anymore, so you've gotta be transparent. You've gotta make sure that your employees under - and that you show that you care about equality with your employees as well.

And then I think, like, flexibility is a big thing too, that, you know, being flexible with how employees work, when they work, where they work. That's gonna really set you apart as an employer, and if you're not willing to do that, then you're going to lose you lose out on some good candidates or have people leave your organization for somewhere that does offer that. And not to mention- Regulation's already coming, whether you want to do it or not. So- Yep ...

um, it is a real requirement that's coming. Yeah. So, Tia, thank you so, so much for all of your time, your expertise, your wisdom. I sincerely appreciate it, especially on this early Monday morning.

Where can our listeners connect with you beyond this conversation? Yeah. Um, so feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, Tia Larsen. Um, I work for, like we said, FJ Management, and that's probably the best place to connect with me.

Fabulous. And thank you, Kelsey. Well, thank you so much again. I, I really appreciate your time, uh, and look forward to, uh, staying in touch and really appreciate you coming on the show.

Yeah. Thank you, Kelsey. I appreciate your time as well. You have a great Monday.

Thank you for joining us on Beyond the Paycheck, presented by Aura Finance. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow Beyond the Paycheck wherever you get your podcasts. Beyond the Paycheck is brought to you by Aura Finance, the personal finance platform helping employees build confidence, security, and freedom with their money. See how Aura Finance is redefining financial well-being at aurafinance.

I'm Kelsey Wheelock.