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Between You and AI artwork

How to Scale an AI-First Culture, and the CTO’s Role

Between You and AI · 2026-04-14 · 10 min

0:00--:--

Key moments - from our scoring

Substance score

50 / 100

Five dimensions, 20 points each

Insight Density13 / 20
Originality14 / 20
Guest Caliber6 / 20
Specificity & Evidence12 / 20
Conversational Craft5 / 20

Andrea Iorio, former Tinder Latin America head and current MIT Technology Review columnist, frames AI transformation through developmental psychology rather than technology strategy. Drawing from his behavioral economics background, Iorio demonstrates how the three conditions babies need to crawl - tummy time (discomfort that activates necessary muscles), permission to fail without consequences, and emotional motivation - map directly onto organizational AI adoption. Research from Ying Bao's Hawaii International Conference study on human-AI collaboration trust aligns perfectly: cognitive perception (ease of use, low coordination costs) and emotional perception (comfort, enjoyment) mirror the baby framework. Iorio details how winning companies like Mayo Clinic, Nubank, and John Deere redesigned four organizational dimensions: data infrastructure (reactive to predictive), design systems (automation to augmentation), value propositions (transactions to experiences), and human capital (hard skills to soft skills). The critical insight: organizations are failing because they're treating AI adoption as a technology problem when it's fundamentally a leadership and trust problem. Deloitte data reveals the contradiction - senior leaders shadow-use unapproved AI tools 40% more than staff, while employee trust in employer-provided AI dropped 31% in three months and agentic AI trust fell 89%. The CTO's evolved role across these four floors is architect, designer, strategic partner, and human-readiness champion - building conditions, not code.

Key takeaways

  • →The three conditions for organizational AI adoption are discomfort (redesigning workflows), permission to fail (low-cost experimentation), and motivation (clear value delivery), mirroring how babies learn to crawl.
  • →Companies must redesign four organizational floors - data (reactive to predictive), design (automation to augmentation), value (transactions to experiences), and people (hard skills to soft skills) - not their technology stack.
  • →The CTO's role shifts from builder to architect, designer, strategic partner, and champion of human readiness - creating conditions for AI to work rather than building AI itself.
  • →Employee trust in employer-provided AI dropped 31% in three months while senior leaders deploy unapproved shadow AI 40% more frequently, revealing a trust and transparency crisis leadership must address.
  • →McKinsey found companies where senior leaders actively role-model AI use are three times more likely to be high-performing, proving that behavioral change, not technology, drives AI success.

In this episode

  1. 1The Baby Crawling Metaphor: Learning as Emergent Behavior
  2. 2Three Conditions for AI Adoption: Tummy Time, Permission to Fail, and Motivation
  3. 3The Four Floors: Data, Design, Value, and People
  4. 4Trust Crisis in AI Deployment: Shadow AI and Declining Employee Confidence
  5. 5The CTO's Fourfold Role: Architect, Designer, Partner, and Champion
  6. 6Building Conditions Over Code: Leadership's Real Challenge in AI Transformation

Mentioned

Andrea IorioTinderL'OrealMIT Technology ReviewWileyMayo ClinicNubankJohn DeereDeloitteMcKinseyScott AronsonAmelia Dunlop

Topics in this episode

Agentic AI systemsShadow AI usageBehavioral change managementAI-first culture transformationMayo Clinic AI ReadinessNubank fintech augmentationJohn Deere intelligence platformMcKinsey senior leader role-modeling researchDeloitte Trust ID Workforce IndexScott Aronson AI ethics

Questions this episode answers

What are the three conditions organizations need to create for AI adoption to work?

Discomfort (redesigning workflows and processes), permission to fail (low-cost experimentation without incident reports), and motivation (a clear reason to try, like achieving business value). These mirror the developmental psychology conditions babies need to learn crawling.

How does John Deere exemplify successful AI transformation?

For 197 years John Deere sold tractors; today they sell intelligence to farmers through AI-powered insights. The tractor remains the same, but the value proposition shifted from transactions to experience-driven intelligence, resulting in over 500% stock growth since the pandemic began.

What is the CTO's role in scaling an AI-first culture?

The CTO becomes an architect of data foundations, ecosystem designer for tool governance, strategic business partner connecting model deployment to revenue, and champion of human readiness - building conditions for AI adoption rather than building AI systems themselves.

Why are senior leaders creating a trust crisis with AI adoption?

Deloitte found senior leaders are 40% more likely to use unapproved shadow AI tools than staff, while employee trust in employer-provided generative AI dropped 31% in three months and trust in autonomous agentic AI dropped 89%, signaling a failure of leadership transparency and earned trust.

What's the difference between automation and augmentation in AI design?

Automation replaces humans (like replacing customer service agents with chatbots), while augmentation makes humans better by providing them real-time context, sentiment analysis, and suggested actions - a design choice exemplified by Nubank's AI-powered agent panel.

What our scoring noted

Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.

Insight Density

13 / 20

The episode delivers a coherent conceptual framework (the four floors: data, design, value, people) with some concrete examples (Mayo Clinic, Nubank, John Deere), but relies heavily on the baby-crawling metaphor that stretches across the entire runtime without proportional depth. The supporting research citations (MIT Media Lab, Ying Bao study, Deloitte reports) add credibility, but the episode prioritizes storytelling over actionable detail - most B2B operators would gain the core framework within the first five minutes.

Four floors, Data, design, value, people. None of them are tech problems. Every single one of them is a leadership problem, a design problem, and even a trust problem.
the three conditions? Tummy time, permission to fail, and a toy. Well, that's your job, not HRs.

Originality

14 / 20

The four-floors framework and the deliberate repositioning of AI adoption as a cultural/behavioral problem rather than a technical one is relatively fresh, particularly the explicit critique of shadow AI use by senior leaders. However, the core insight - that organizational change requires behavioral conditions rather than top-down mandates - echoes well-known change management theory. The baby metaphor, while memorable, is essentially a wrapper around established ideas from developmental science.

crawling as an act contains every single principle an organization needs to adopt a new culture, and in this case, an, uh, AI first culture.
senior leaders are 40% more likely to use unapproved AI tools from their own staff. In the tech sector, shadow AI usage hits 58%.

Guest Caliber

6 / 20

This is a solo episode featuring the host, Andrea Iorio, introducing his own book and framework. While Iorio cites relevant credentials (former head of Tinder Latin America, CDO at L'Oréal Brazil, MIT Technology Review columnist), the episode is a monologue rather than a dialogue with an operator who has recently implemented an AI-first culture at scale. No in-the-trenches practitioner is interviewed to validate or stress-test the framework.

I'm an Italian keynote speaker and USA Today bestselling author. As the former head of Tinder in Latin America for five years, Chief Digital Officer at l' Oreal Brazil, MBA professor at Fundasono Cabral, and now columnist at the MIT Technology Review.
My latest book is between youn and AI, published by Wiley.

Specificity & Evidence

12 / 20

The episode cites named companies (Mayo Clinic, Nubank, John Deere) and specific data points (John Deere's stock up 500%, trust fell 31% in three months, shadow AI at 58% in tech, senior leaders 40% more likely to use unapproved tools). However, examples are mostly illustrative rather than deeply detailed - no timelines, implementation budgets, team sizes, or outcomes beyond high-level metrics. Research citations lack full attribution (e.g., 'a study by Ying Bao' without clear publication details).

Mayo Clinic is number one in CB Insights, AI Readiness index for hospitals.
Stock went up over 500% since the beginning of the pandemic

Conversational Craft

5 / 20

This is a monologue with no interviewer or push-back. There are no follow-up questions, no productive disagreement, and no testing of the framework's assumptions. The host walks through his thesis uninterrupted, which creates a one-way lecture format rather than a dialogue. While the narrative is polished, there is no evidence of conversational depth, genuine curiosity, or willingness to explore contradictions.

these are some of the reflections that I wanted to spark. And as a homework, please think about what in reality are these conditions for you and your business?
Stay with me. And so let's start with the baby.

Conversation analysis

Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.

Most-used words

conditions13three12data10first8four8floor7baby7trust7crawl6problem6tech6design6crawling5cost5daughter4organization4

Episode notes

In this episode of Between "You and AI", Andrea Iorio (USA Today bestselling author and keynote speaker) draws an unexpected parallel between a 3-month-old baby learning to crawl and organizations adopting AI, revealing the three conditions that unlock collective change - and why 95% of companies are missing them. Discover how the principles that help babies master crawling are the same ones that accelerate cultural shifts in business. We break down the four crucial "floors" of AI readiness - data, design, value, and people - and why each one is a cultural challenge, not a technical fix. Andrea shares specific insights from global leaders like Mayo Clinic and John Deere, illustrating how shifting the focus from automation to augmentation transforms both value and trust in AI. You'll uncover why trust is the real bottleneck - why leaders and employees often trust AI and each other less over time, and what leaders, especially CTOs, must do to build that trust. Learn how to create the conditions where AI can thrive, prioritizing leadership, culture, and environment over fancy algorithms. Andrea Iorio Instagram: LinkedIn: Website:

Full transcript

10 min

Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.

Speaker A: Couple of days ago, I was sitting on the floor of my daughter's room with my coffee, watching her face plant into the yoga mat for the 14th time in a row. She's just three months old, she's learning to crawl. And I could see there was zero frustration. She was belly down, arms out and back into the mat again and again. I had this thought I couldn't shake my three month old daughter. Able to learn better than most Fortune 500 companies. And I don't mean that as a cute metaphor. I mean it structurally. And as a behavioral economist by education, I studied economics at Bocconi University in Italy. I can't help thinking that the way that a baby learns to crawl is the best way to think about behavioral change. And since cultural change in organizations is nothing more than collective behavioral change, crawling as an act contains every single principle an organization needs to adopt a new culture, and in this case, an, uh, AI first culture. You know what? Nobody tells you that babies don't learn to crawl because someone teaches them. You actually create three conditions and the crawling emerges on its own. And that word, conditions is the one that 95% of companies, according to an MIT Media Lab report, are getting wrong right now in their AI transformation journey. Here's your host, Andrea Iorio, speaking. I'm an Italian keynote speaker and USA Today bestselling author. As the former head of Tinder in Latin America for five years, Chief Digital Officer at l' Oreal Brazil, MBA professor at Fundasono Cabral, and now columnist at the MIT Technology Review. My latest book is between youn and AI, published by Wiley. You can get to know everything about my work@Andreiadio.com and today we're going to talk about why AI first is a crawling problem and not a tech problem. Stay with me. And so let's start with the baby. In developmental science, crawling is not really a motor skill. It's an emergent behavior. A motor skill is something you train and teach. An emergent behavior appears when the right conditions exist. What are the conditions? In this case, there's three first, tummy time. You have to put the baby belly down. It's uncomfortable, but that discomfort activates exactly the muscles the baby needs. Second, you let her fail. She falls 14 times like my daughter. And nobody files an incident report. The cost of failure is zero. And third, you place a toy there, just out of reach, but so that she has a reason to try. Now pause here for a second because a study by Ying Bao and colleagues presented at the Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences, investigated What makes people trust AI during collaboration? And what they found maps almost perfectly onto the baby. Two dimensions. The first one is cognitive perception. Is the tool easy to use? Is the coordination cost low? And second, emotional perception. Do I feel comfortable using AI? Do I enjoy it? So tummy time in the case of babies reduces cognitive complexity. Letting her feel reduces coordination costs. And the toy is emotional comfort and enjoyment. Three human conditions. And most companies have zero of the three. And what are the companies that are winning with AI doing? Well, they redesigned four things in particular. Four conditions. Not their tech stack, but four dimensions of how the organization thinks, builds, serves and grows. I call them the four floors because you can't crawl on a broken floor. And I summed it all up in my book between youn and AI. The first floor is data. You need data in order for AI to turn your business from reactive to predictive. An example is Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic is number one in CB Insights, AI Readiness index for hospitals. They don't just focus on treating diseases, they prevent them. And so are your dashboards and your data just a rear view mirror or they help you drive looking in front of you. The floor two is design. Design in order to turn your company's tools from automation to augmentation. See, nubank is the, uh, biggest fintech in Latin America. And they didn't replace their human agents with chatbots like most banks did. They built an AI powered panel that makes those humans better, providing real time, context, sentiment, analysis, suggested next action. That's not just automation, that's augmentation. And it's a design choice, not a tech choice. Floor three is pivoting away from transactions to generating value through experiences. Look at John Deere. For 197 years it was a tractor company. Today they sell intelligence to the farmer. The tractor is the same, but the value proposition is completely different. Stock went up over 500% since the beginning of the pandemic as a consequence of that. And floor four is people pivoting away from a, uh, hyper focus on hard skills to soft skills. See, AI ethicist Scott Aronson said something that would keep every professional awake at night. He said for any task with an objective measure of success, it's just a matter of time before AI outperforms the best humans. Um, what survives, what's not measurable? Judgment, empathy, ethical reasoning, the ability to sit in ambiguity and still decide. Four floors, Data, design, value, people. None of them are tech problems. Every single one of them is a leadership problem, a design problem, and even a trust problem. And here's where this episode makes me lose sleep because you see Deloitte's Trust ID Workforce Index found that senior leaders are 40% more likely to use unapproved AI tools from their own staff. In the tech sector, shadow AI usage hits 58%. The people who are supposed to be leading the transformation are the ones bypassing the system the most. But it even gets worse. According to the same report, employees trust in companies provided generative AI fell 31% in just three months in 2025, and trust in agentic AI systems that act autonomously dropped 89%. And Amelia Dunlop, CXO at Deloitte Digital, stated that workers see their employer as to two times less empathetic after AI is introduced into the workplace. Yes, we're deploying AI faster than ever, but people trust it less than ever. So what's the CTOS or CIO's role into all this? It's fourfold. One role for each floor. The first one is data. How you turn into an architect of the data foundation. You decide whether your organization's data is AI ready or AI hostile. Clean, centralized govern. Data is super important. It's boring work, I know, but it's the difference between scaling AI and scaling pilot project. Second design. You become an ecosystem designer. Your job isn't to build every tool, it's to build the ecosystem in which tools get deployed and governed. You know, teams start vibocoding. You need governance for that. You need an approved model stack, tiered risk classification. How many of you have a published policy on what marketing can build with AI? Uh, exactly. That's the gap. Third value. You become a strategic partner of business areas. And this one's uncomfortable because for the cto, it means leaving the server room and sitting into the business room. The hard truth is that the CTO who can draw a line from a model deployment to a revenue number keeps the budget. The one who can't becomes a cost center. And we know that cost centers get cut. And fourth people. The CTO becomes the champion of human readiness. And here, where the baby analogy comes back, remember the three conditions? Tummy time, permission to fail, and a toy. Well, that's your job, not HRs. It's yours because you're the one who understands what AI can do, what it can't, and what it needs from humans. See, McKinsey found that companies where senior leaders actively role model AI use are three times more likely to be high performance. Three times because of behavior, not because of technology. So you have four floors, four roles. Architect, designer, partner, and champion. And in none of them is the cto, the person who builds the AI. Uh, in every one of them, the CTO is the person who builds the conditions for AI to work conditions and not code, just like a parent builds the conditions for a baby to crawl. So being AI first is not just about tech strategy. It's not about models, it's not about computing power. It's not even about data, because data matters enormously. AI uh first is a crawling problem. It requires discomfort redesigning workflows, not bolting AI on top. It requires permission to fail, and it requires a reason to move. And above all, it requires trust. Not the kind you declare in an email, the kind you earn through decisions that cost you. See, my daughter will learn to crawl. She doesn't need a strategy deck. She needs these three conditions. Your organization is no different, and they're waiting to see whether you'll create these conditions or just send another email about AI uh. So these are some of the reflections that I wanted to spark. And as a homework, please think about what in reality are these conditions for you and your business? And so with this, I want to thank you for your attention and see you next week with another episode of between youn and AI.

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