Why Partnerships Fail (and How to Fix Them): Insights from Jenn Steele, SoundGTM

Speaker A: Welcome to Between Product and Partnerships, a podcast focused on bringing together product, partnership and engineering leaders to discuss how to build, support and scale SaaS ecosystems. This podcast is presented by Pandium, an integration platform for building native integrations.

Speaker B: Hi everyone and thanks for listening to our podcast Between Product and Partnerships where we talk about the challenges and what it takes to build integrations, partnerships and SaaS platforms. My, uh, name is Christina and I'm the CEO here at Pandium. And today we are so excited to have Jen Steele, CEO of Sound gtm, join the podcast. Do you want to share a little bit about your background, Jess?

Speaker A: Sure, sure. So what a strange road brings you to CEO and co founder. I assume you have had a similar journey, but, um, uh, I'm a former cmo. I think we'll just truncated at that. I was early HubSpot, I was at Amazon, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, but I was a former CMO and after I became a turnaround CEO at KissMetrics, I'm a big martech person and I ended up my board chair there. After I sold, it was like, do you want to take this platform to market it's affiliates? And I'm like, no, affiliates is gross. I really don't want to deal with any of that. Um, but there were a few things that happened. One is that I have a lifelong obsession with things that I have failed at and I want to make them better. And, um, I like hard problems. So what ended up happening is I realized, oh, hey, I can take this platform. And after an aborted attempt, pivoted to focusing entirely on partnerships, in part because 50 to 80% of them fail. And when I was a chief marketing officer, I helped some of them not do super well. And so for me the question is, what makes, especially at, uh, companies that like, don't have an 80 person partnership organization, what makes them fail and can I help fix it? Like I, my mission is to drive that failure number down, in part because I used to drive it up.

Speaker B: That leads well into, I think the next question, which is when you look back at your previous roles as a cmo, how did you work with, or maybe not work with partner teams?

Speaker A: I still, so I am still friends with nearly every partnership team person I have worked with in the past, probably because they're very friendly and forgiving people, not because I deserved any of that. But, um, so the primary way I worked with a partner team was to be exasperated that I would get called in for a press release last minute or suddenly I'd have to do a webinar and I did not have the resources. And yes, partner marketing was under my purview and I came from product marketing, which is like right next door to it. However, I didn't have the resources partner. Even when I was VP of product and marketing that included partnerships, partner marketing was one out of 10 things I was doing. Like I literally had 10 different areas of responsibility. And so for me it was just like why uh, do I have to do this? And then working with a partner on a press release is really painful and what's going on now. And so of course I would make them less likely to ask me things because I was whiny. So um, so not. Well,

Speaker B: I, I bet they wouldn't say whiny, but it sounded like you, um, you had a lot in your plate and you were working at some pretty large orgs. So that makes sense that this was

Speaker A: not like depending on the org, you never have enough resources. Right. I mean I, I did not have a dedicated partner marketer on my team. And so I mean that's part of the person I'm trying to get is that person who has the whin, who doesn't have dedicated ops, who doesn't have dedicated um, partner marketing.

Speaker B: And in those situations was the, did the partnerships teams roll into like. I guess it sounds like maybe they rolled into you but you didn't have a marketing person.

Speaker A: Is that so they didn't roll into me. Um, one. The thing is, it's so funny because they, they roll in at lots of different places and I think I've experienced that. At one point somebody asked if they should roll into me and I was like well they can, um, but I think they should roll into sales because most partnership agreements you're trying to get more revenue, therefore let's have them go into revenue. Plus their, their processes are. Yes, there's partner marketing and it is its own thing and it is the marketing like cadence but their day to day accountability really should be pipeline and ideally close deals. And that's not necessarily marketing, that is, that is sales. But I have, I have worked with partner leaders that have reported to the coo, to the VP of demand, to Sales, to um, basically you name it.

Speaker B: I feel like it also can kind of depend on what kind of partnerships you're talking about. Like if it's like reseller, like that is like a straight like operations and sales thing versus technology partnerships which may have like a product element versus affiliate. Like it's, it's so.

Speaker A: Or like if you only did integration partnerships then maybe it's CS because it's. Or implementation partnerships. Like, um. And I always mix up the ISV terminology and things like that because it's hilarious. But whichever one means we sell, you implement. Maybe it's cs. You know, it just depends.

Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Ah, it's interesting to see in our customer base too, like seeing where those teams sit and then how they move around. Like some of our customers we've been with for years and years and like the people that run those teams have been rolling into different groups, including like being sort of that foundation of like a strategy group or a platform group. It's sort of all over the place without one clear. One clear home, I think in a

Speaker A: lot of, uh, works.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's like, how do we make them perform? How do we make them not annoy me when they ask me questions that nobody else asks me? Because. Well, it's true. It's true. Because it's like in a normal sales led organization, you have two parties, we're selling the thing and you're buying a thing. When you start getting partnerships involved, now you have a third party and almost none of your thought processes or processes are designed for it.

Speaker B: Yeah, a hundred percent. And we talk a lot on the podcast and generally out in the world about like, dependencies and how integration work and partnerships that have integrations. Also just commercial agreements, but integration especially, there's like a lot of hard dependencies and assumptions, assumptions you have to make that live like outside of the four walls of your business. And you may or may not have the ability to influence that other company and you may or may not be able to get them to do things for you from a technical perspective. So it's definitely, I think, different to your point from straight sales, straight marketing, and definitely different from straight, like product engineering of Greenfield.

Speaker A: Um, yeah. And you're interdependent. I mean, yes, marketing is always dependent on product and sales. And you know, it's like the three corners of the stool in, especially in tech companies. Um, but it's just like, can I send out this press release? Oh, no, we're having a problem with their API. Suddenly it's like, at least if it's my own product, I know the launch schedule. Like, I know like, I have a little more control.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, that reminds me of like, I feel like I've been on live demos so many times demoing an integration at like XYZ Place. And yeah, it's like the partner API is down. It's like you're sort of just host at that Point, but it doesn't make, it doesn't make anybody look good when

Speaker A: those things happen, but it happens to everything. I did a webinar where I was demoing like we have an agent that um, creates a joint ICP and then pushes that into your HubSpot so you can see which companies you have already in there. That actually would be great for co selling. On the morning of the webinar where I was launching that because I was launching it in partnership, they changed their primary, like their API was fine, but it wouldn't open the page because they changed the page URL. And I'm like, thank you so much, HubSpot. Thank you.

Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. These are the glorious, the glorious things that I feel like you and I maybe should do a crash course about like how to do a live demo, how to like mock live demos. I feel like I've seen too many that have gone off the rails and I'm like, I know how you mock that. So you make it look like it works all the time. So you mentioned about the press release with an integration not being built yet. And that is the thing that I have experienced as the person who's responsible for the builds, learning that an organization has announced that this thing is ready to go and being sold. I'm like, news to me. We have, you know, six more weeks left or three more weeks left, whatever. Um, curious if you're, you could just share like that anecdote. Some folks here might get a kick.

Speaker A: Yeah. So there was a company, once upon a time, there was a company that I joined that has since gone through a couple of acquisitions. So they're no longer known by the company name. So I'll just leave that nameless. Before I started at the company, they announced a, ah, key integration with a large partner. Um, I was at the company, unfortunately there was an acquisition or fortunately and somebody else came after me for a better job. And so I did all of that. But so I left the company about nine months later. Still wasn't done. A year later, it still wasn't done because it's like, oh, the partner keeps changing their API, et cetera. I mean, I was getting to the point that I was just like popping the popcorn and watching because all in all it was about two years.

Speaker B: That hurts.

Speaker A: I will never ever pre launch an integration. Especially with like, you know, I'm the little guy and it's the big guy. Because you are at their mercy. Like when they changed their API, we were just dead in the water.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, and it's it's also like the unknown unknowns. What is it like? Um, the 8020 rule around, like the last 20% takes 80% of the time and it's also like most of the value. I feel like that is very acute in this space. Like, getting something that is like sort of functional enough to say that it's dev done is typically not that long. But then that extra like 10 to 15% in my experience is like the hardest part. And again, it, uh, comes into like, dependencies. There's like so much going out on, not even just from a technical perspective, but like you're trying to learn this additional system also to figure out like, how to make the thing work. And there isn't. I mean, people, they hate me because I say this, but like, there isn't actually a shortcut for that. Like, you just have to learn how it works if you want to build something that's going to be good for your customer.

Speaker A: I mean, fundamentally, so many integrations come down to data structures and everybody sets all that stuff up differently. And it's like, what do you call this field? What do we call this field? Oh, what do you mean by that? Oh, we can't use this quite like we expected. Meanwhile, I've already written the press release saying something that is no longer true. It is, it's a little bonkers.

Speaker B: I mean, the key is just when you're marketing it, to give no details. Just give absolutely no details about how anything works. Just use the logo and roll with them.

Speaker A: Yes. Because that's excellent marketing. That is phenomenal marketing. That absolutely makes people want to sign up. Because I always say once you get the headline stuff done, what's first in most people's mind, especially if you're a tech company, is. That's nice how?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm the one that's always digging through everyone's help docs being like, how does this thing work? Like, let's see if there's help docs to see if it actually does work or not. Um, that's always the key. Help Desk is the great, the great equalizer. Um, so leading you up to now, when you look back on those experiences, what do you think are like the biggest two, three mistakes that companies make around partnerships? Then we'll talk about like, current state today.

Speaker A: Sure. Um, now I'm going to put in this disclaimer that I am trying to build my company to remedy these errors. So coincidentally, I have solutions for some of these. However, um, there's unclear goals. Like, I worked once With a partnership person who had a variable piece of his comp that he didn't know how it worked because it was always like moving pieces. Every partnership deal was different. The CEO would do a one thing and et cetera. So it's just like operational clarity and then the system to support that, which of course, duh, building it. Um, that's, that's actually the biggest one because I find partnerships people are some of my very favorite people in the world because they are so good at other humans, they're so good at building relationships, they are phenomenal at finding win win situations that you know, some people would call synergies, but I hate that word. And the things they're not good at are marshaling internal resources and handling the details and handling the ops and also just handling the product. Right. They're coming from a more salesy background or maybe a marketing background. And I have more of a product background personally, so occasionally I just watch it. I'm like, oh no, you didn't say that to the cpo. No, no, no, no. Okay. So I um, I think it's kind of that you're smack in the middle of so many teams and your talent is building relationships and finding synergies, not in hurting the cats.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: So maybe I didn't get three overall, but it's like goals, ops and whatever the heck is happening inside.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that's why I love seeing and I agree with you about partner people. Like, I think it's this really like cool combination of like almost like the CX account management type of mindset and sales where there really is to your point, the like one plus one equals three to use that, that played out, um, analogy. But it's really true. Like these are folks that are like looking for opportunities to better serve the customer. Right. And are usually folks that don't necessarily love the like kind of grinding nature of sales, but also have a commercial mindset. So being in, you know, like a non quota carrying CX person might also not be a good fit. Um, and I love, love, love when we work with companies, when we get to see companies that have some sort of counterpart to the partnership folks in either product or engineering, usually in product, but like there's like somebody or there's like a platform team or a professional services team that owns some of this stuff. Not even integration specifically, but just general product feedback. And like those folks that are out there spending their entire day talking to other software companies are also getting just like great feedback about your perception in the ecosystem and like, what other companies think you do and what you. What companies are saying about you and like, that kind of stuff.

Speaker A: One of my favorite when I. I started at one company as chief marketing officer and the partnership, um, VP was like, here, I'm. I've set up calls with all our primary partners, and I'm like, I don't know where the bathroom is. Like, what am I doing talking to them? But it was exactly that. It was their perception. It was their perception of strengths and weaknesses and also their fundamental how can I help? Which so many of them, I swear, were born just saying that. It wasn't Mama Dada. It was, how can I help?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah. And that's why I love having, like that, um, at least like, a person in these different orgs that is, like, maybe not partner in the title, but like someone that this. These partnership folks can go to to share some of that feedback. Or, like, you know, even in marketing, like, it might be something that you want to hear about. Like, hey, I told somebody about this XYZ thing that we now have, and they had never heard of it. Like, that's. These are important things. Um, yes.

Speaker A: If nothing else in marketing, it helps you say I told you so to the founder who's the one that decided it didn't go on the website.

Speaker B: But no, neither here nor there. Neither here nor there. Apropos.

Speaker A: Absolutely nothing.

Speaker B: Well, we'll take it offline. We'll take it offline, as they say. Um, so cool. So you've been doing this kind of work of working with these kinds of companies for a bit of time. But I do think, and I will say that I think this started mid Covid. I'll say so, like, 2021 is where I started seeing more activity around more and more companies having this partner Persona within their organization and wanting to build partnership teams, or at least having a human that's responsible for these kinds of relationships if they're too small to actually have a partnership team. Um, I'm curious why you think the sea change, like, why are people focused on this now when they weren't? I mean, I've been in tech for a billion years. I have done this kind of work under different names forever. In 2014, partnerships was, like, not a thing unless you were really buddied up to, like, Salesforce or something like that. Yeah, somewhat of a thing, but not like now.

Speaker A: 16, 2017, I worked at a big data company and we needed partners because what do you do with data? Somebody's going to help you. But, um, I Think actually not. Yes. It started going during COVID it also because we weren't doing outside sales. So I think people were hoping to just have more places to go because what we were accustomed to doing wasn't working anymore. Although thankfully, at least in the tech sector in 2021 and 2022, beginning of 2022 things were still booming and then we hit a wall and uh, now people are like where can we get more revenue? Okay, partners. And I swear to you the number of times I see a strategy or tactic that basically follows the south park underpants gnomes, the like partnerships. Hmm profit there I I saw on um. Well an investor that will be rename remain nameless that their average port co are expecting 14% of their pipeline to come from partnerships but not 14% of their go to market budget. And so I'm like they. So I think it's. They are expecting an outsized gain from a small amount of effort and because you know the BDR model is struggling because nobody knows what that exploitive deleted is happening with AI we are definitely having a whole like well maybe we can magically go through our ecosystem. And, and they're the natural ones.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: If you've got a product that does integrate that needs integrations like that's a pretty natural one. Um, and then there's people who are trying it through any means necessary because they are hoping and praying that they can actually do more with less.

Speaker B: And what do you. I guess when you look at that problem, right. The problem of more revenue is like canonical sales problem from a business. So I won't ask you how do you solve that problem? Um, I would still have a bigger

Speaker A: company if I could solve that problem.

Speaker B: I mean wouldn't we all.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: I was like just AI just add AI. Yes.

Speaker A: Ah, that's all you need.

Speaker B: But more like generally like when you look from the outside and you're looking at a company that now is going to have like a partner strategy, what makes you think like this company actually could do this really well versus like this company still maybe needs to invest a little bit more into planning what they're. And I have thoughts about this which is maybe why this question is not well articulated. Because I'm thinking about it.

Speaker A: No it's not.

Speaker B: Um, like you know, like where do you like this is going to be a company like this company's going to has the potential to nail it. This one it's like I don't know what they're doing.

Speaker A: Um, and this goes back to your whole like what are the three primary failure modes. And we didn't get here. So I'm glad you asked this question again. Uh, or a different variation of it. And it's, you've got a partner person who is really, really good at starting something and really, really bad at keeping it going. Because the next shiny object is coming and a lot of us are like this. I mean, I'm a founder. I can't, I can't fully step out of the guilty, uh, verdict there. But it, um, it's the, the, the. You don't have the infrastructure, you don't have the support. You, you thought that if you did this, it would be magical because people like, I was talking to a founder yesterday who was like, I offer $5,000 for any referral that converts. Why are people jumping on this? And, you know, we went through and came up with tactics and things like that, but it's just like, because that instant, like, yeah, everybody's like, yes, I will sign up for your partner program and we will get $5,000 per whatever it is. And then they forget it exists. There is not enough enablement. Nobody's talking about it anymore after the press release and we're onto the next shiny object.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's fair for sure. Um, and also, like, depending on who that person is speaking to on the other side, if it's a partnership person, they have a bajillion of people that have asked them to do this same thing. I do think, like, the, the mutual back scratching is really important in these. And in some instances, like, you as the partner are not going to be contributing leads to them. Like, there are definitely examples where this is very lopsided in terms of, like, hey, you can send me leads, but, like, given my business, I'm actually probably not going to be sending you leads. Right. But there are other ways to, like, you know, stay top of mind from a product perspective and also just from like a personal perspective, like, how do I, how do I stay, like, in your ethos as, like, a cool human who you're willing to, like, punt some stuff to.

Speaker A: Right. And that's, you know, we're working on productizing that because of the whole lake. And it's, it's. I don't want to just be a sales dashboard because it's like, it's not just like, reach out to these accounts today. Um, but it's very much like, okay, what are all of the actions? Because we can fly to cities now, we can do co marketing. There's so much more. And it's not just an exchange of leads, it's maybe leads for a rev share. But be aware they can't give you leads so they have to give you something. What is that? It's probably revenue. So it's balancing whatever that agreement is to reality helps a lot. And the other thing that I, I was, I was talking to a different customer yesterday and as well and it's like well, how do I keep them going? It's like well what. You've been talking about doing webinars forever but I haven't seen one. How about finding a pilot for that? Right. It's, it's always coming up with what's the next thing that's going to get the shiny object person on their side excited again.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. Sometimes that can be to your point like a webinar or something that like doesn't necessarily have a huge budget or like a huge amount of lift. Like there are all kinds of things that you could do with somebody that like you as the founder, like I can do or you know, volunteer a few hours of your time to get something together. And it doesn't have to be a $40,000, you know, party at a giant conference that you're, you know, throwing your label on together or your logo on together. Um, so we talked a little bit about some of the failure patterns. Like what, what do you think are fair expectations for what partnership programs can do? And like maybe let's think about that from like a company that is a reasonable size but hasn't historically invested a lot in partnerships. So like you're sort of maybe not starting from scratch like brand new company, but if you were going in and like we're going to like tear this down and start over. But what do you think is a realistic way to think about the output of that? So obviously it'll be different like per industry.

Speaker A: No, but I don't, I don't have a non boring answer for you.

Speaker B: I love boring answers.

Speaker A: I'm boring answers. That's the boring answer is that the 8020 rule is still probably going to apply. So the question is go in, look at your partners, hopefully find 20% that are producing. If you don't, then you know you're out of balance. And then bucket the rest of them into how well you think they could produce and come up with your motions, probably pretty classic go to market motions. They're either going to be in sales or marketing most likely. Um, come up with your emotions to see if you could reawaken it. Come up with your criteria as to how long you're going to spend any effort on this set of, you know, whatever bucket it is and move on with your life almost, you know, execute, execute.

Speaker B: And what does that look like? Like, what is that Repeatable go to Market Motion look like once you as an organization say, like, okay, like we've seen like some early signs of life with some of these things that we're trying. Like, what are some of those things and how do you think about operationalizing them?

Speaker A: So every time somebody says repeatable go to market Motion, I laugh because I come from marketing, and in marketing, every tactic works until it doesn't. Um, you know, for example, so I was early HubSpot employee number 90, and inbound marketing was a thing. And then we flooded the market with all of this content and then direct marketing, which had died in like 2010, was suddenly back and we're sending crap to people. And then Covid happened and nobody's in their office anymore and it's define repeatable.

Speaker B: That's fair. That's fair. But I mean, for something to be, for something to be like, operationalized in a way, it has to be repeatable. Right? Like, I, uh, totally agree with you. And like, Pandy was been around long enough and we were small enough to like, have even been through exactly what you're describing in terms of like, okay, now we're gonna. It's kind of like demand gen. Now it's all inbound. Like, now it's this now, you know, events.

Speaker A: Events are the most recent thing, which means you have to have a budget, which is hilarious because of course there's no VC money. Um, unless you're like OpenAI. Uh, so it's bonkers. It's totally bonkers. But you're right, the, the ability to grade each partner on an ongoing basis, um, know exactly what type of partnership it is and therefore what your agreement is, knowing whether you have an SLA and so whether or not you need to light a fire under your own. But, um, that's the repeatable side is what's happening. What do I need to do today? What do I need to do next? What might be an emergency? And then you can think about, okay, well, what's the market doing right now? Hopefully your CMO has some clue and can help you. And, um, and then what's the tactic that can work? What's my budget? What's their budget? You know, it's a, it's a problem solving exercise from there.

Speaker B: What budget? There's no budget. There's no budget for anything ever.

Speaker A: The Partner program especially has like zero budget and I'm just like. So I was often funding the joint happy hours out of the marketing budget and I was fine with that because I like people and, and stuff like that. Although it would drive me crazy when they'd be like, let's have a joint happy hour with this partner. That makes no difference at all. And why the heck are we talking to them? They're in a different industry. They don't sell to the same people. They don't use our product. What are we doing?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's definitely budgets because I get invited to so much stuff and I, I don't even have a sense of how much that must be costing. Like just daily cost of tech company parties in New York City.

Speaker A: Um, I know how much that stuff costs because I'm as a former cmo, so.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. And like again, like the bang for your buck there, like, maybe isn't good. Maybe it's. Maybe there's reasons that you want to do these events. But I think there, I do think there's a lot of ways to like, to squeeze blood from the stone, so to speak, of like, doing virtual things and like doing small, thoughtful things. And there's a couple of companies that we work with that just like really do a great job with their ecosystem. And it's like they, they have an excellent marketing team and they have a big partner team. And I just, every time, and I get lots of emails, I always open, open their emails to see the partner announcements and like, they tell the together story really, really well. And I think that's also very compelling is like, I would rather actually hear about what, like, why should I care about you two companies being together than almost anything else that they could say. Right? Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, why does this matter? Um, why do I care? Oh, suddenly a use case has opened up for me. Or, oh, now I can measure what this other company is doing for me. Like, you need that. Oh, but I can't help but notice you're like, they have partner teams, they have marketing teams, they have resources. Even if it's not for high ticket stuff they're doing, they're still employing people.

Speaker B: Uh, 100%. Yes. I mean, if you don't have anybody doing anything, that's obviously going to be an issue. And I also, I've talked on this podcast with other folks before about, like, I also think there's a lot of danger in like really small companies kind of hitching their wagon to like, partnerships as Being like their one and only distribution method. And like, hey, we're going to spend all of our money on partner marketing. But like, we are not, we cannot survive without the attention from big kind of cornerstone, cornerstone, flagship foundational product. Because even if you have their attention temporarily, like, that is a very dangerous game of concentration risk. Um, it is.

Speaker A: Especially in the U.S. i, um, work with the. I coach Japanese companies as part of an accelerator. And, um, their big companies are much more nurturing than our big companies, shall we say? Yes, almost everybody is funded by like Mitsubishi or something like that. They've got all sorts of things going on, um, and you need that channel, partnership, et cetera. Like, so they come here and they're like, where's my big company? I'm like, nobody knows who you are. Good luck.

Speaker B: Well, I mean, if you start doing well enough, those big partners might not want to be a partner anymore. And like, you know, there's just all kinds of like. And we don't have enough time to talk about that, like, kind of competing, um, incentives that go into that type of relationship. But.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It is, it is like, it's an interesting thing. And again, I've seen companies like, really spend to your point, like two years trying to finally get that integration with this one huge company that's going to save the business. And then after all that work launching Cricket. So I'm like, you really got to distribute. Distribute, distribute.

Speaker A: Or even worse, after all that work, it turns out the big company was bringing you along to build your product.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Or they just won't approve you at the very end. They're just like, nah, we're just not going to let you in the App Store and there's like no recourse, you know.

Speaker A: Turns out enterprise sales is annoying no matter what angle you have.

Speaker B: Indeed, indeed. Um, cool. So we are coming up on time, but I want to let everybody hear more about sound gtm. So you've referenced it a couple few times. Your company, what do you guys do and what types of companies should come to you to solve what problems.

Speaker A: So the perfect folks to come in are if you are running partnerships and you are essentially by yourself at a tech company. Most likely because I come from tech. Um, our entire goal is to kind of surround you with and do the annoying things that you don't want to do so that you can use those incredible strengths that Christina and I have been talking about. Um, and so on one side we have a tracking ops and payments, um, system that will let you do deal reg Six ways to next Tuesday. Um, came up with a new one this morning that we're going to implement. So. And then on the other side, we have a suite of partner marketing agents that, um, weirdly enough, I apparently have the skill to teach, um, LLMs how to write. So they'll basically do a, uh, mid level partner marketing suite of stuff for you to do, sales enablement to do, targeting and all of that stuff. And, um, if you are currently tracking whatever your partnership efforts are in a spreadsheet, we're coming. No, we're here for you. We're not coming for you. We are here for you. You can leave that out.

Speaker B: We're coming for you. Be careful.

Speaker A: We're coming to help. No, um, but that's exactly where we want to be because so many PRMs are like, scale, scale, scale. And so many partnership people are like, first, I don't have $60,000 in my budget. And second, I don't need scale, I need help. And that's what we're here to do.

Speaker B: I love it. And how can folks find you? And we'll drop a link to your site in the description of this, but how can folks find you outside of that?

Speaker A: So we're@soundgtm.com I am, uh, ignore the pricing page. We're redoing it. Um, and um, you can find me on most socials. I'm Jen Steele. J E N N S T E E L E But I am probably most active on the cesspool that is LinkedIn.

Speaker B: I thought you were going to say Twitter. When you said the cesspool, I was like, oh, but LinkedIn is also terrible.

Speaker A: LinkedIn is terrible because of the AI content. In fact, my most recent posts or one of my posts recently, ways of ranting about it. And of course I got 8,000 views on that completely useless post. Whereas something substantive doesn't get anything.

Speaker B: I know my like spiciest ones that are like, to your point, not that don't have a lot of substance. It's just me complaining. Are always the ones that do really well. Um, but yeah, I LinkedIn and I will. We're in a safe place here for all of our listeners. LinkedIn is so hard to use also sometimes like using like some of their premium tools. And I'm like, how are we stuck in this thing like for this many years and we are still like, there's nowhere else to go. Like it is. They really, they got us, man. It's a great tool for the network

Speaker A: but like, if you want to build a better Mousetrap. Come up with something that's not LinkedIn or Twitter or Insta or TikTok or any of these like algorithm based. But anyhow, um, and I will say if you do reach out to me on LinkedIn, my apologies in advance. My messages are a mess. It takes me a while.

Speaker B: Good to know I'm already connected so I don't have to worry about it. Well, this has been super duper fun for our listeners. Uh, if you are interested in learning more about integrations, partnerships, partner operations, we've got rubrics, we've got spreadsheets, we've got all kinds of stuff, downloadable ebooks. Uh, check out pandium.com. you can also link to our YouTube there. We'll drop uh, a link to all of Jen's things perhaps in the description there so you can find her off of LinkedIn if you don't want to go there. Um, and yeah, we really appreciate you taking the time and hanging out with us for a little bit this afternoon, Jen, and I'm sure I will see you out there.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Take care.

Speaker B: Thanks.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed our content, subscribe to our channel and give us a thumbs up for more content. For more content on tech partnerships, integrations and APIs, check out our articles, ebooks and other resources in the description or visit Pandium's website.