Behind The Pixel: Closing The Animation Communication Gap · 2024-08-01 · 23 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
38 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Lindsay Knowler brings a refreshing people-first perspective to animation pipeline standardization. After climbing the rigging ladder at Vancouver studios and training animators worldwide at Toon Boom, she founded Eat Your Peas - a collective of passionate mentors launched during the pandemic to address a critical industry gap: designers don't understand how their design decisions impact rigging complexity, animation timelines, and ultimately project costs. The core insight is brutal simplicity: a character design choice that looks identical might cost $2,000 to rig one way and $50 another, yet there's no standard methodology to communicate this. Knowler argues that while the animation industry accepts universal principles like the 12 principles of animation and basic skeletal structures (shoulders, elbows), it hasn't standardized the layer of rigging efficiency that sits between design and animation. Eat Your Peas teaches inter-departmental communication - how storyboarding impacts layout, how design impacts rigging, how rigging impacts animation - using a skill verification system. For B2B operators, producers, and creative directors commissioning animation work, this addresses the persistent mystery of why quotes vary wildly and deadlines slip: there's no shared language between design and execution.
Eat Your Peas is a collective of volunteer animation mentors founded by Lindsay Knowler during the pandemic to teach animation students and early-career professionals how animation pipelines work, with focus on how different departments impact each other. Knowler works full-time on it while mentors volunteer 3-4 hours per month.
There's no animation industry standard for rigging methodology or design-to-production workflows, so the same character design can cost $2,000 to rig one way and $50 another depending on the studio's approach - and clients don't know until production begins.
She was a senior trainer who traveled to animation studios worldwide teaching them how to use Toon Boom software for rigging and animation, and how to build efficient pipelines and plan team growth.
Designers need training on how design choices impact rigging complexity and cost; Knowler emphasizes that every additional line or detail has a dollar cost, and standard designs like The Simpsons or BoJack Horseman don't need custom innovation in the body rig.
She defines pipeline as where people and technology come together - building workflows around team skills and planning for growth over time, rather than defining it by software tools or making too many changes at once.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
A handful of genuinely useful observations - design complexity having direct cost implications, the lack of rigging standards hurting small studios, pipeline as people-plus-technology - are buried under extended small talk about road trips, Tim Hortons orders, puppies, and Canadian social insurance numbers. The insight-per-minute ratio is low for a 23-minute episode.
every line is a dollar
this mouth is going to cost $2,000 versus $50
The framing of pipeline as a people-first construct rather than a toolchain is a genuinely refreshing angle, and the argument that design decisions should carry explicit price tags for producers is practical and underexplored. However, these ideas are stated rather than developed, and the Blue Zones digression adds philosophical padding rather than original industry thinking.
pipeline is really just where people and technology come together
Designers really want to know how their designs affect technology, but there's no courses for that
Lindsay Knowler is a genuine practitioner - 12 years in animation, senior Toon Boom trainer who deployed to studios worldwide, with credible hands-on experience in rigging and pipeline consulting. However, she is at the very early stage of her own venture (launched January, volunteer-run), which limits the weight of operational authority she can speak from.
I became one of their trainers, their senior trainers, and I got to travel the world and teach animation studios everywhere how to use their software
I worked all around Vancouver, but then that's when I started to realize, like, I kind of was looking for something else
The $2,000 vs. $50 mouth-rigging cost comparison is the one concrete, actionable data point in the episode. References to Toon Boom, Mainframe Studios, and the 3 - 4 hours/month volunteer commitment add minor texture, but there are no client outcomes, production timelines, or studio-level metrics to ground the broader claims.
this mouth is going to cost $2,000 versus $50
I have volunteers and I have all my mentors are volunteering for me right now...this is only going to cost you about 3 to 4 hours this month
The host asks a few structurally decent questions (defining pipeline, advice for clients) but consistently accepts first answers without follow-up, allows long tangents about road trips and coffee preferences, and offers effusive validation rather than productive challenge. The conversation reads more as a friendly festival meet-and-greet than a substantive interview.
Do you prefer a double double or a triple triple? Oh, that's important.
you're the first person I've ever met in this industry that has talked about pipeline from a people first mindset. Yeah, Yeah. And it is like so refreshing to hear.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Welcome to another SLAE episode. These episodes were recorded at The Salt Lake Animation Expo in March of 2024. We interviewed Expo Speakers and others who were involved with the expo. A special thanks to Jordyn Curly for allowing us to do this. In this episode, Kathryn and Will welcome Lindsay Knowler at Eat Your Peas, a collaborative effort among passionate artists aimed at mentoring and giving back to the community. Lindsay shares her journey from working as an animator to becoming a Senior Trainer at Toon Boom and eventually starting her own initiative. She highlights the challenges and intricacies of Rigging in animation and the lack of standardized practices across different studios and regions. Lindsay emphasizes the need for clear standards and efficient pipelines to help both small studios and emerging artists. The conversation also touches on the impact of style on animation workflows and the importance of good leadership in creative environments. Learn more about Eat Your Peas here:
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
00;00;16;01 - 00;00;18;06 Hi. Hello. Hi. 00;00;18;06 - 00;00;19;12 It's so nice to meet you.
00;00;19;12 - 00;00;20;12 Great to meet you. 00;00;20;12 - 00;00;22;12 Really nice to meet you, too. 00;00;22;12 - 00;00;23;22 First time on the podcast. 00;00;23;22 - 00;00;26;13 First time on any podcast.
Is that right? Yeah. 00;00;26;13 - 00;00;28;17 That's awesome. 00;00;28;17 - 00;00;30;09 So honored.
Yeah. 00;00;30;09 - 00;00;32;20 It's really. Exciting. Yeah, We were also.
00;00;32;20 - 00;00;36;05 So maybe tell us a little bit about why you're at the Expo where you do it. 00;00;36;05 - 00;00;37;13 That's a good question. 00;00;37;13 - 00;00;40;05 Well, I guess I'm promoting Eat Your Peas, 00;00;40;05 - 00;00;43;05 which is a project that I started over the pandemic, 00;00;43;07 - 00;00;48;05 and it's really a group of really passionate artists who are trying to 00;00;48;07 - 00;00;50;07 I don't want to say like specifically mentor students, 00;00;50;07 - 00;00;51;26 but give back to the community.
Yeah. 00;00;51;26 - 00;00;56;26 And so we're looking for ways to interact with more people on a regular basis. 00;00;56;29 - 00;01;00;26 Utah was introduced to me by a good friend, Mike Morris, 00;01;00;29 - 00;01;02;03 who's there's two of them here. 00;01;02;03 - 00;01;05;18 So one of which Mike which was Yeah, yeah.
00;01;05;24 - 00;01;08;15 This girl using me to every we just. 00;01;08;15 - 00;01;11;25 Met with what he describes himself as the pleasant ginger. 00;01;11;29 - 00;01;14;28 Yes, I met the other, I mean the other one. 00;01;15;04 - 00;01;15;18 Yeah.
00;01;15;18 - 00;01;16;23 So I know the other one. 00;01;16;23 - 00;01;18;22 Looking for a certain boom. 00;01;18;22 - 00;01;21;12 I met another who's also pleasant. 00;01;21;12 - 00;01;23;18 He's just not a ginger.
00;01;23;20 - 00;01;25;02 And so. 00;01;25;02 - 00;01;28;12 Yeah, he introduced me to the people at Utah 00;01;28;12 - 00;01;30;25 and he told me about this festival last year. 00;01;30;25 - 00;01;33;23 And so I was really like, Oh, that would be a lot of fun. 00;01;33;23 - 00;01;36;10 I love festivals.
Like a Who doesn't love a festival. Yeah. 00;01;36;10 - 00;01;40;21 And so the opportunity to come to Utah, which I'm a huge rock nerd too, 00;01;40;21 - 00;01;45;02 so I got to drive from Canada all the way. Oh.
00;01;45;04 - 00;01;46;25 Oh, awesome. And it's it's. 00;01;46;25 - 00;01;48;06 I was we'll have to have some. 00;01;48;06 - 00;01;50;15 Conversation about, like, the U.
S. 00;01;50;15 - 00;01;51;22 industry versus the Canadian. 00;01;51;22 - 00;01;53;18 It's it is. Actually really wild.
00;01;53;18 - 00;01;55;22 I mean. You've been driving from Massachusetts. 00;01;55;22 - 00;01;58;01 Oh, nice. Are we?
It's almost the same. 00;01;58;01 - 00;01;59;26 Almost on the same thing. 00;01;59;26 - 00;02;02;03 Yeah. Utah was right in the center.
00;02;02;03 - 00;02;05;21 I was planning a road trip to Vancouver, B.C., because in the process 00;02;05;21 - 00;02;08;29 of moving back to Vancouver, B.C.
, to be around all my friends 00;02;08;29 - 00;02;11;15 and all the like, the industry. Yeah, back in the industry. Well, we're. 00;02;11;15 - 00;02;13;18 Planning to visit Vancouver, so.
So you see that? 00;02;13;18 - 00;02;14;28 Yeah, well. 00;02;14;28 - 00;02;16;28 That's also due to my favorite places. 00;02;16;28 - 00;02;18;10 Oh.
Okay. 00;02;18;10 - 00;02;20;06 Do you prefer a double double or a triple 00;02;20;06 - 00;02;23;06 triple? Oh, that's important. Yeah.
00;02;23;10 - 00;02;25;12 Oh I don't, I don't go for that much sugar. 00;02;25;12 - 00;02;28;21 So very honestly, that's just the right answer. 00;02;28;23 - 00;02;29;24 But it's close to it. 00;02;29;24 - 00;02;32;22 Sometimes I'll get double, double and that's like a hot chocolate to me.
00;02;32;22 - 00;02;34;29 Yeah, I know. Exactly. 00;02;34;29 - 00;02;36;02 Yeah. 00;02;36;02 - 00;02;36;12 Yeah.
00;02;36;12 - 00;02;38;20 So Utah was on the map, and I want to talk to Jordan. 00;02;38;20 - 00;02;40;08 It was all about independent innovation. 00;02;40;08 - 00;02;42;09 And I was like, Yeah, okay, this is great. 00;02;42;09 - 00;02;43;22 Let's, let's, let's do this.
00;02;43;22 - 00;02;48;20 And yeah, so we, we, it's a bit of a detour, but it's definitely worth it. 00;02;48;20 - 00;02;51;00 I even got to stop off at Mount Rushmore. 00;02;51;00 - 00;02;52;07 Oh, that's my dog. 00;02;52;07 - 00;02;54;05 So that's our first pictures.
Yeah, it was. 00;02;54;05 - 00;02;56;00 Was that your. Dog that we heard? A little.
00;02;56;00 - 00;02;58;09 No, she's at. A little. 00;02;58;12 - 00;02;59;20 Spa. A spa weekend.
00;02;59;20 - 00;03;02;06 Ooh, there is a there is a puppy somewhere. 00;03;02;06 - 00;03;03;28 There's I and I want a pet. 00;03;03;28 - 00;03;06;18 Yeah, yeah, there's a puppy. Yeah.
00;03;06;18 - 00;03;09;23 So tell us a little bit for, for our audience who might not know you 00;03;09;23 - 00;03;11;19 a little bit about who you are, what you do, 00;03;11;19 - 00;03;14;18 and a little bit more about your piece too. Oh, sure. Yeah. 00;03;14;18 - 00;03;18;03 So I, I've been in the animation industry for about, I don't know, 00;03;18;03 - 00;03;19;19 I guess about 12 years 00;03;19;19 - 00;03;23;09 and I just kind of made my way through the system just started.
00;03;23;09 - 00;03;25;19 I was an animator, didn't do quite that well. 00;03;25;19 - 00;03;27;25 So they started putting me around in different spots to find, 00;03;27;25 - 00;03;29;23 you know, your, your footing. Yeah. 00;03;29;23 - 00;03;34;20 And I made my way into rigging tin boom rigging really just clicked for me.
00;03;34;20 - 00;03;38;22 And I just I fell in love with my job, and I did 00;03;38;25 - 00;03;42;21 pretty well climb the ladder until I hit that ceiling. 00;03;42;23 - 00;03;45;08 And that's when I started to. 00;03;45;08 - 00;03;47;01 I worked all around Vancouver, but then that's 00;03;47;01 - 00;03;49;14 when I started to realize, like, I kind of was looking for something else. 00;03;49;14 - 00;03;51;20 Like, I have this itch to grow all the time.
00;03;51;20 - 00;03;52;22 Yeah. Yeah. 00;03;52;22 - 00;03;54;07 I think that's common in artists. 00;03;54;07 - 00;03;58;08 And yeah, when I didn't know what I could do in the animation industry, 00;03;58;08 - 00;04;00;02 I started working for Toon Boom 00;04;00;02 - 00;04;03;15 and with them it was really cool because I became one of their trainers, 00;04;03;15 - 00;04;04;11 their senior trainers, 00;04;04;11 - 00;04;08;23 and I got to travel the world and teach animation studios everywhere 00;04;08;23 - 00;04;13;19 how to use their software, how to rig, how to animate 00;04;13;21 - 00;04;16;06 and how to, you know, how to use those tools very effectively.
00;04;16;06 - 00;04;19;01 And that's like my favorite thing is like being really efficient 00;04;19;01 - 00;04;23;10 with animation tools and making everyone's lives really easy. 00;04;23;12 - 00;04;25;23 Hard. Beautiful thing. 00;04;25;26 - 00;04;26;08 Yeah.
00;04;26;08 - 00;04;27;12 So needed and. 00;04;27;12 - 00;04;31;14 Reading is like the probably the most technical part that is 00;04;31;16 - 00;04;33;12 that affects the creative so much. 00;04;33;12 - 00;04;34;06 Yeah, it really does. 00;04;34;06 - 00;04;36;16 It's a it's a really crucial point of the pipeline.
00;04;36;16 - 00;04;38;24 And when I started the in the animation industry, 00;04;38;24 - 00;04;40;26 nobody really knew what writing was, including me. 00;04;40;26 - 00;04;43;26 Like I, we all kind of like were really falling into it. 00;04;43;26 - 00;04;44;28 And it's really 00;04;44;28 - 00;04;49;10 what's interesting about it is it's unique to every part of the world. 00;04;49;12 - 00;04;52;12 So like everybody kind of rigs differently and it's all about who 00;04;52;12 - 00;04;55;12 you know, who taught you what they knew at the time.
00;04;55;14 - 00;04;56;11 It's probably been like 00;04;56;11 - 00;05;00;05 the most interesting thing for me to recognize and learn more about, 00;05;00;08 - 00;05;02;16 um, about how everybody else uses the program 00;05;02;16 - 00;05;07;01 and then how can you, like, manipulate that knowledge into like a better system. 00;05;07;08 - 00;05;07;21 That we were at 00;05;07;21 - 00;05;08;07 because we were just 00;05;08;07 - 00;05;11;15 talking about this, about like, there's no like one standard for.
00;05;11;15 - 00;05;13;13 You to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. 00;05;13;13 - 00;05;15;08 And if I can, if I can like 00;05;15;08 - 00;05;18;11 if I could wish for anything I want that's so bad for people.
00;05;18;14 - 00;05;20;00 Same because I think that. 00;05;20;00 - 00;05;22;15 That's, I think that holds small studios back. 00;05;22;15 - 00;05;23;03 Yeah. 00;05;23;03 - 00;05;24;22 They spend a lot of money trying to figure out 00;05;24;22 - 00;05;26;15 all these little tiny details within the bigger 00;05;26;15 - 00;05;28;13 studios have really figured out.
Right. 00;05;28;13 - 00;05;31;08 And so there's I don't think it's proprietary information to build 00;05;31;08 - 00;05;34;27 certain cartoons the way that they look into the cartoons. 00;05;34;27 - 00;05;35;22 Yes. Yeah.
00;05;35;22 - 00;05;38;02 But like there's a standard of cartoon. 00;05;38;02 - 00;05;41;01 I don't think that should be like there should be no innovative innovation there. 00;05;41;01 - 00;05;44;00 That should be like a standard practice with, like universal models. 00;05;44;00 - 00;05;46;19 And, you know, how does everybody save time?
00;05;46;19 - 00;05;48;22 Yeah, make the animation. We're right. On board. 00;05;48;22 - 00;05;49;09 Yeah.
Yeah. 00;05;49;09 - 00;05;50;17 And the thing that bothers me is 00;05;50;17 - 00;05;52;19 that there are some standards that we're okay with. 00;05;52;19 - 00;05;55;19 So, for example, everyone's okay with like the 12 principles because 00;05;55;19 - 00;05;58;23 obviously that's good motion, but everyone's also okay 00;05;58;23 - 00;06;02;17 with, well, you need a shoulder point, you need an elbow. 00;06;02;19 - 00;06;02;29 Yeah.
00;06;02;29 - 00;06;06;20 And like we need defamation in some capacity, 00;06;06;25 - 00;06;09;21 but like then there's like just another layer 00;06;09;21 - 00;06;11;16 of like a bunch of other things you can put on there. 00;06;11;16 - 00;06;15;14 And then that just turns into like someone's like, like crazy hair, right? 00;06;15;20 - 00;06;17;03 Like everyone has a scalp. 00;06;17;03 - 00;06;20;09 Yeah, hair is always hair is always like the fun part.
00;06;20;09 - 00;06;21;19 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;06;21;19 - 00;06;22;25 It's, it's fun and wild. 00;06;22;25 - 00;06;24;09 So is that what your piece is about? 00;06;24;09 - 00;06;27;02 Are we are we talking about, like, trying to teach folks 00;06;27;02 - 00;06;29;10 a standard way of doing something or is it something to.
00;06;29;10 - 00;06;30;13 It's a good. Question. 00;06;30;13 - 00;06;34;04 I think that this is going to be a vessel to find a standard. 00;06;34;07 - 00;06;35;26 I think working with the mentors, that's 00;06;35;26 - 00;06;37;05 the one of the things that I can hook them with.
00;06;37;05 - 00;06;40;05 They're like, How do you want to see the animation industry evolve? 00;06;40;06 - 00;06;41;08 Right? 00;06;41;08 - 00;06;44;29 And so one of the key things that we do want to see is like working 00;06;44;29 - 00;06;46;05 with designers. 00;06;46;05 - 00;06;49;10 Designers really want to know how their designs affect technology, 00;06;49;13 - 00;06;51;00 but there's no courses for that.
00;06;51;00 - 00;06;51;26 There's not a lot of courses. 00;06;51;26 - 00;06;53;12 Like I think it's just kind of starting to come out. 00;06;53;12 - 00;06;55;17 People there's some riggers that know enough 00;06;55;17 - 00;06;58;24 that they'll talk to designers and that they'll have those conversations. 00;06;58;27 - 00;07;02;13 But I think what we are trying to do is create like real courses 00;07;02;13 - 00;07;04;13 for like real designers 00;07;04;13 - 00;07;07;24 so that they can actually, like really learn how like a mouth design 00;07;07;27 - 00;07;10;19 affects how long it takes to rig that mouth design.
00;07;10;19 - 00;07;12;26 And also we can put price tags on that. 00;07;12;26 - 00;07;16;04 So I was, I wanted to get yeah, yeah. 00;07;16;04 - 00;07;19;08 You know passionate about producing a producer will be able to say. 00;07;19;08 - 00;07;20;28 Yes or no if almost most cost 00;07;20;28 - 00;07;24;07 you know this mouth is going to cost $2,000 versus $50.
00;07;24;14 - 00;07;26;11 That's a decision. That right is. 00;07;26;11 - 00;07;27;15 Easy to answer sometimes. 00;07;27;15 - 00;07;31;08 Well, some of our audience some of our audience are marketing professionals.
00;07;31;08 - 00;07;34;09 They're nonprofit directors, creative directors, folks 00;07;34;09 - 00;07;36;13 who are trying to get this type of work done. 00;07;36;13 - 00;07;38;26 And a lot of the times they don't understand 00;07;38;26 - 00;07;40;27 where the price tag comes from, right? 00;07;40;27 - 00;07;46;14 And so I think you hit on just the right thing, which is sometimes the reason 00;07;46;14 - 00;07;50;15 why we can't necessarily place a price tag is because there's no standard.
00;07;50;16 - 00;07;53;11 Yeah, because if I did it one way, it would be $2,000. 00;07;53;11 - 00;07;55;03 And if I did another 50 bucks and. 00;07;55;03 - 00;07;57;02 You don't know until you get in there. Yeah, yeah.
00;07;57;02 - 00;07;58;24 Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of a tricky thing. 00;07;58;24 - 00;08;01;17 So do you have any, like, advice for clients to at least 00;08;01;17 - 00;08;04;04 what should they keep in mind as they think about these? 00;08;04;04 - 00;08;06;27 Well, details.
Every line is a dollar. 00;08;06;27 - 00;08;09;27 The people that I work with, we just love having these conversations. 00;08;09;27 - 00;08;12;10 So we are we are. 00;08;12;10 - 00;08;15;27 We are determined to, like, figure out a way to put out 00;08;16;00 - 00;08;19;22 put out information to like really help people, like make those decisions, 00;08;19;25 - 00;08;23;09 especially when things are if they look like The Simpsons, 00;08;23;09 - 00;08;24;17 you know, like it's the very stand.
00;08;24;17 - 00;08;27;00 It doesn't matter what color it is, but there's a line. 00;08;27;00 - 00;08;28;14 There's a there's a there's a body. 00;08;28;14 - 00;08;30;07 It's a human BoJack horseman. 00;08;30;07 - 00;08;35;22 It's a horse horse head would be a little bit more details to to to put together.
00;08;35;22 - 00;08;39;01 But like you know the rest of the body is that to me is very standard 00;08;39;04 - 00;08;41;25 so there really doesn't have to be any innovation there. 00;08;41;25 - 00;08;42;11 Yeah. 00;08;42;11 - 00;08;45;12 So on the side of kind of this standardizing, can, 00;08;45;12 - 00;08;49;10 can you describe to us in your own words how you would define a pipeline? 00;08;49;12 - 00;08;53;19 Because we've defined it one way, but like I said, yeah.
00;08;53;22 - 00;08;54;16 Yeah. 00;08;54;16 - 00;08;59;03 It's, I think pipeline is really just where people and technology come together. 00;08;59;05 - 00;09;01;11 And so I've always been I've been good 00;09;01;11 - 00;09;04;11 with the technology, but I've always been a little bit better with the people. 00;09;04;18 - 00;09;08;03 And so and because I have like I have a love for training, 00;09;08;03 - 00;09;12;09 so I really enjoy learning about what people know and where their skills are at.
00;09;12;11 - 00;09;14;25 And then we can build pipelines around them 00;09;14;25 - 00;09;18;05 to like help their workflow and make them efficient. 00;09;18;07 - 00;09;21;19 But then what we can also do is plan for their growth in the future 00;09;21;24 - 00;09;24;11 so you can evolve your pipeline over time. 00;09;24;11 - 00;09;24;20 Right? 00;09;24;20 - 00;09;28;05 I think one of the worst things that I've I've done this in the past, 00;09;28;07 - 00;09;30;27 which is why I know, is you can go into a pipeline, 00;09;30;27 - 00;09;34;24 you can change too much at once and it's too impactful for people.
00;09;34;24 - 00;09;36;12 And I think that really makes people nervous. 00;09;36;12 - 00;09;36;26 But I'm 00;09;36;26 - 00;09;40;26 like, I'm also like ultra conscious of it because I've made that mistake and it was 00;09;40;29 - 00;09;44;13 it was too much and it was on my team and it was like our animators 00;09;44;13 - 00;09;45;16 and my rigging team. 00;09;45;16 - 00;09;47;17 And it was, yeah, it was a lot. 00;09;47;17 - 00;09;50;13 And it was it was a huge learning lesson.
Yeah. 00;09;50;13 - 00;09;52;10 I have to say that, like, 00;09;52;10 - 00;09;55;00 you're the first person I've ever met in this industry 00;09;55;00 - 00;09;57;23 that has talked about pipeline from a people first mindset. 00;09;57;23 - 00;09;58;07 Yeah, Yeah. 00;09;58;07 - 00;10;00;26 And it is like so refreshing to hear.
00;10;00;26 - 00;10;03;18 I think that's why it's scary to use that term, right? 00;10;03;18 - 00;10;06;17 Yeah, I mean, nobody knows what it is. 00;10;06;17 - 00;10;08;23 So I'm like, I'm afraid to use it, 00;10;08;23 - 00;10;11;07 but I'm pretty sure that's what it is. 00;10;11;07 - 00;10;11;16 Yeah.
00;10;11;16 - 00;10;15;12 I feel oftentimes that pipelines get defined by the tools that we use. 00;10;15;12 - 00;10;17;17 Yeah. Which doesn't to me. Does it make sense?
00;10;17;17 - 00;10;21;12 Because it doesn't necessarily matter which tool you use to get that final 00;10;21;12 - 00;10;22;18 like type of thing. 00;10;22;18 - 00;10;25;17 So like if you're modeling, you can model and blender, you can model 00;10;25;23 - 00;10;28;19 tools, you know, you can make assets and different types of things. 00;10;28;19 - 00;10;30;15 And these days I think those tools are starting 00;10;30;15 - 00;10;33;10 to come out with technology that that, you know, like universal scene 00;10;33;10 - 00;10;36;18 descriptions or like ways in which you can export 00;10;36;18 - 00;10;40;14 the fundamental elements and then transfer between them.
00;10;40;14 - 00;10;43;27 So they're already thinking that it's not really going to matter what to use. 00;10;43;27 - 00;10;47;29 You just like to use our tool because we have better mechanisms to do it. 00;10;48;02 - 00;10;49;23 And so there's no question there. 00;10;49;23 - 00;10;54;06 I just think that that's one version of here's how a pipeline works.
00;10;54;08 - 00;10;56;23 And I'm just so grateful to hear it because it's yeah. 00;10;56;23 - 00;10;57;21 I think it was a 00;10;57;21 - 00;11;00;06 it was a really unique experience working for Teen Boom 00;11;00;06 - 00;11;02;01 because that's really what I got to do. 00;11;02;01 - 00;11;05;06 They would fly me to a studio and I would just be in the environment 00;11;05;06 - 00;11;08;17 and I'd be teaching the team how to do things. 00;11;08;17 - 00;11;11;17 And I, you know, you recognize as who's going to be the supervisor.
00;11;11;24 - 00;11;14;24 And then because I was supervisor, I basically trained them 00;11;14;24 - 00;11;17;24 on like how to be a supervisor as well. 00;11;17;27 - 00;11;21;01 And then when you talk to production, you say, okay, your team's here, 00;11;21;05 - 00;11;23;05 but in six months it could be here. 00;11;23;05 - 00;11;25;17 And in one year you guys could be doing this. 00;11;25;17 - 00;11;29;08 However, you got to make sure that you keep an eye on X, Y and Z.
00;11;29;08 - 00;11;31;00 So that you can get here, right? 00;11;31;00 - 00;11;33;16 And then it helps the studio grow as well. 00;11;33;16 - 00;11;37;01 So that that part was always really cool to me, get that job. 00;11;37;01 - 00;11;40;03 And then when I left town, boom, it was a bit I had to like figure out 00;11;40;03 - 00;11;43;03 how to keep doing that because yeah, it was, it was a, 00;11;43;05 - 00;11;45;22 it was easier to do when they were sending me.
00;11;45;22 - 00;11;48;22 Now I'm doing it for myself, so it's a bit different. 00;11;48;22 - 00;11;50;10 I was going to ask about that transition. 00;11;50;10 - 00;11;53;07 So like you're acting boom for a while and then transitioned. 00;11;53;07 - 00;11;55;13 Are you solely your PS now?
00;11;55;13 - 00;11;57;28 Like where, where are you kind of that? I am. 00;11;57;28 - 00;12;02;12 I've just made the decision to double down and keep going on is awesome. 00;12;02;15 - 00;12;05;11 So yeah, we're.
Congratulations. Thank you. 00;12;05;11 - 00;12;08;07 Yeah he's has been I mean we're we're brand new. 00;12;08;07 - 00;12;09;16 We just started in January 00;12;09;16 - 00;12;13;02 so like really and again, it's really about pipeline knowledge.
00;12;13;02 - 00;12;16;26 Like we've worked together as a team for almost a decade 00;12;16;28 - 00;12;20;07 and we all go to different studios and I'm the only one that works on it full time. 00;12;20;07 - 00;12;24;13 And then I have volunteers and I have all my mentors are volunteering 00;12;24;13 - 00;12;26;15 for me right now. They're all good friends. 00;12;26;15 - 00;12;29;19 Yeah, Yeah, they're, you know, I make it very easy for them to like, 00;12;29;23 - 00;12;33;02 you know, this is only going to cost you about 3 to 4 hours this month.
00;12;33;02 - 00;12;37;24 Then you can tell me exactly when you want to put that in your schedule, 00;12;37;26 - 00;12;38;20 and that works. 00;12;38;20 - 00;12;42;07 And then we're hoping to get into like next. 00;12;42;07 - 00;12;43;17 We're hoping to basically 00;12;43;17 - 00;12;47;24 look at the whole pipeline breakdown, all the skills for all the jobs, 00;12;47;27 - 00;12;51;17 and then we're going to try to get into a skill verification system 00;12;51;17 - 00;12;55;09 so that when people start to work with us, they can say, okay, this is the job 00;12;55;09 - 00;12;56;08 I want to learn.
00;12;56;08 - 00;12;58;27 Then they can start checking off those skills 00;12;58;27 - 00;13;01;16 and then we can start to verify people and like really help them 00;13;01;16 - 00;13;05;18 grow and really get into the and this is from a student level 00;13;05;20 - 00;13;09;18 to a I call them professionals where people are like brand new in the industry. 00;13;09;18 - 00;13;10;01 So, sure, 00;13;10;01 - 00;13;12;18 they're still trying to figure out how a pipeline works, 00;13;12;18 - 00;13;15;02 how that how the departments like flow into each other.
00;13;15;02 - 00;13;15;13 Yeah. 00;13;15;13 - 00;13;18;25 So everything that we do revolves around like departments 00;13;18;25 - 00;13;21;25 helping departments not I'm learning storyboarding. 00;13;21;25 - 00;13;25;05 It's how to storyboarding impact the other departments. Yes.
00;13;25;05 - 00;13;26;26 Thank you. 00;13;26;29 - 00;13;28;21 And that's all departments. 00;13;28;21 - 00;13;30;29 So everything has a cost. So there's a lot of repetition.
00;13;30;29 - 00;13;32;09 People are really nervous about that. 00;13;32;09 - 00;13;34;15 But at the same time, I think people need to hear 00;13;34;15 - 00;13;37;04 that repetition because yeah, that's important. 00;13;37;04 - 00;13;38;06 Well, it's so true because. 00;13;38;06 - 00;13;38;21 Oh gosh.
00;13;38;21 - 00;13;41;06 So how does how does style impact this? 00;13;41;06 - 00;13;44;03 Because like, you know, you think about workflows. 00;13;44;03 - 00;13;46;16 Yeah. Lines and we talked about the standard and you get a break.
00;13;46;16 - 00;13;48;25 We're going to break that stand. We're about. I'm about to break it. 00;13;48;25 - 00;13;51;18 Yeah.
So like, if I'm. Doing something for clients about. 00;13;51;18 - 00;13;54;17 Yes, I'm doing a 3D thing or if I'm doing a because I can I can 00;13;54;17 - 00;13;57;17 see it going beyond like just like the two of them world. 00;13;57;18 - 00;14;01;11 I can see this idea applied to games 00;14;01;11 - 00;14;04;13 or, you know, feature films or whatever.
00;14;04;14 - 00;14;07;13 Like I think any part of the creative industry can use something like, 00;14;07;13 - 00;14;08;10 Yeah, yes. 00;14;08;10 - 00;14;10;29 So no matter what size you're out to, yeah, almost. 00;14;10;29 - 00;14;13;11 The smaller you are, the more you need to consider. 00;14;13;11 - 00;14;14;03 Yeah.
00;14;14;03 - 00;14;15;01 Yeah. Exactly. 00;14;15;01 - 00;14;15;11 Yeah. 00;14;15;11 - 00;14;16;07 And so, 00;14;16;07 - 00;14;20;06 so that's one question is like are you I guess are you going to think about that.
00;14;20;10 - 00;14;22;26 Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course I, I have thought about that. 00;14;22;26 - 00;14;24;14 It's definitely, it's, 00;14;24;14 - 00;14;27;19 that was the first question when I was running this idea by some like 00;14;27;22 - 00;14;31;04 some CEOs in Vancouver, just to be like, like, what do you think of this?
00;14;31;04 - 00;14;33;19 Like, I'm about to, like, really. Go for it. Yeah. 00;14;33;19 - 00;14;37;02 And these were my bosses at the time, so I really respect them and their opinions.
00;14;37;02 - 00;14;38;26 And that was the first question they asked were like, 00;14;38;26 - 00;14;39;26 Are you going be able to cross over? 00;14;39;26 - 00;14;41;26 And I was like, I think I don't see why not. 00;14;41;26 - 00;14;43;29 But we got to focus on what we know first. 00;14;43;29 - 00;14;48;00 So to do is we don't think too much further, but we do invite, 00;14;48;03 - 00;14;50;08 like a lot of students, 3D animators 00;14;50;08 - 00;14;53;23 who ask if they can get animation reviews by our animators.
00;14;53;23 - 00;14;56;03 And we have like art. 00;14;56;03 - 00;14;59;16 The Vancouver industry in the Canadian industry is so wildly talented. 00;14;59;16 - 00;15;01;12 Everyone is so multi-disciplined. 00;15;01;12 - 00;15;02;20 They're also super nice.
00;15;02;20 - 00;15;04;11 Yeah, everyone's way. 00;15;04;11 - 00;15;06;06 Nice every time we've been to like, 00;15;06;06 - 00;15;08;17 we've talked to our friends up in Vancouver and it's just. 00;15;08;17 - 00;15;10;23 The stereotype is true. 00;15;10;25 - 00;15;11;03 Yeah.
00;15;11;03 - 00;15;12;00 So, so yeah. 00;15;12;00 - 00;15;16;08 So I, we can, we can technically take 3D animators 00;15;16;08 - 00;15;19;24 that maybe not modelers right now, but 3D animation 00;15;19;24 - 00;15;24;15 we can cover in kind of cover and we just, we just ask like I've got 3DS 00;15;24;17 - 00;15;28;07 animation supervisors that are working on shows up their main frame studios. 00;15;28;08 - 00;15;28;25 Oh yeah, yeah. 00;15;28;25 - 00;15;31;28 We just make sure that, you know, if, if we've got 3D people, 00;15;31;28 - 00;15;34;01 we will tell them, okay, wait for this person 00;15;34;01 - 00;15;36;18 because they'll be able to help you and then you can write them that month 00;15;36;18 - 00;15;38;24 and you know, you're not wasting time or money.
00;15;38;24 - 00;15;41;18 That makes. Sense. Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting.
00;15;41;18 - 00;15;44;22 So I guess, you know, I feel like 00;15;44;22 - 00;15;48;21 you've already touched on this a little bit already, but why? PS 00;15;48;23 - 00;15;50;13 Why should it need them? 00;15;50;13 - 00;15;51;05 Yeah. 00;15;51;05 - 00;15;51;17 Yeah.
00;15;51;17 - 00;15;54;06 It's more the question, what is this really struggle? 00;15;54;06 - 00;15;57;06 Because I don't know how far of an answer I should go with this is go 00;15;57;06 - 00;16;00;08 as far as it's so. Much meaning to me. 00;16;00;13 - 00;16;04;17 These are the there's so there's the three keys of happiness.
00;16;04;19 - 00;16;06;05 So tell us. Yes. As we. 00;16;06;05 - 00;16;07;21 Learn.
This is my favorite. 00;16;07;21 - 00;16;09;10 My favorite thing is the blues. 00;16;09;10 - 00;16;11;12 Owns the blues. I haven't heard of the blues.
00;16;11;12 - 00;16;14;07 No, it's people are they live to 100? 00;16;14;07 - 00;16;16;19 Naturally. Okay, so that's like the world. 00;16;16;19 - 00;16;17;24 Oh, yes, I have people.
00;16;17;24 - 00;16;20;06 There's a thing on Netflix about it. Yes. Yeah. 00;16;20;06 - 00;16;20;28 So, Dan Buettner.
00;16;20;28 - 00;16;23;14 Yeah, I've been a huge fan for like a long, long time. 00;16;23;14 - 00;16;26;17 And I've read his books and like, I'm like a big nerd about it. 00;16;26;17 - 00;16;29;19 Like, it goes back to, like, my love of rocks, 00;16;29;21 - 00;16;30;17 but excellent. 00;16;30;17 - 00;16;31;13 But yeah, so 00;16;31;13 - 00;16;35;19 the blue zones are the keys of happiness, So that's purpose, pride and play.
00;16;35;20 - 00;16;38;13 It's pleasure, but I like to play. Play like play too. 00;16;38;13 - 00;16;39;17 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;16;39;17 - 00;16;42;12 And so I basically wanted 00;16;42;12 - 00;16;45;21 to figure out a way to, to utilize that 00;16;45;24 - 00;16;49;00 those like those three words into, like, what I wanted 00;16;49;00 - 00;16;53;02 to do for the rest of my life because I wanted to like blue zones 00;16;53;04 - 00;16;55;26 to live to 100, yet to move naturally.
00;16;55;26 - 00;16;56;19 And I love that. 00;16;56;19 - 00;16;59;04 I like I want to move naturally for the rest of my life. 00;16;59;04 - 00;17;00;25 I don't want to rush. 00;17;00;25 - 00;17;03;23 I mean, I have to rush sometimes, you know, But I like, you know, there's 00;17;03;23 - 00;17;05;22 there's a way to about a rush.
00;17;05;22 - 00;17;07;16 Yeah, it's all about balance. 00;17;07;16 - 00;17;10;15 And so that's kind of like, like wipes. 00;17;10;15 - 00;17;13;28 But then also peas are disgusting. 00;17;14;00 - 00;17;16;17 And the things you don't want to like, they're really the things you.
00;17;16;17 - 00;17;17;06 Don't want to do. 00;17;17;06 - 00;17;19;08 And so like, I come across that as a trainer, 00;17;19;08 - 00;17;23;14 like some people just don't want to do certain things as a learner, I should say. 00;17;23;14 - 00;17;28;00 And really when you're learning something, you are like, like eating the keys 00;17;28;00 - 00;17;29;07 to your happiness. 00;17;29;07 - 00;17;32;06 And so that's why our logo is a huge bowl of peas.
00;17;32;06 - 00;17;34;00 But it's like one pea at a time. 00;17;34;00 - 00;17;36;14 You can get through this whole bowl and it's like a 00;17;36;14 - 00;17;38;09 like a little mountain of self-discipline. 00;17;38;09 - 00;17;39;22 Yeah, Yeah, that makes perfect sense. 00;17;39;22 - 00;17;42;14 It is like I find.
00;17;42;14 - 00;17;44;22 And there's so many fuels. Yeah. Yeah. 00;17;44;22 - 00;17;46;00 Well, it also feels like it's 00;17;46;00 - 00;17;49;02 one of those things that you feel like it doesn't matter.
00;17;49;02 - 00;17;52;09 Like, you know, there's people at the top maybe creators, 00;17;52;10 - 00;17;54;21 maybe like the folks who are trying to get this done. 00;17;54;21 - 00;17;56;22 Did Who cares? 00;17;56;22 - 00;18;01;09 Like, there's just this like light eeriness about, I don't want to do this. 00;18;01;12 - 00;18;03;01 And then they don't realize 00;18;03;01 - 00;18;06;09 that it affects all of the things that you do care.
00;18;06;11 - 00;18;10;03 And it's also like we've talked about this on the business side of like there's 00;18;10;03 - 00;18;13;28 so much development work that happens that we would call thankless tasks. 00;18;14;01 - 00;18;14;21 Yeah, they're like 00;18;14;21 - 00;18;18;23 the things you build out on the back end that like don't visibly make a change 00;18;18;23 - 00;18;21;00 all that much but make a world of difference 00;18;21;00 - 00;18;23;15 in your communications and your workflow and your pipeline.
00;18;23;15 - 00;18;24;00 Like. 00;18;24;00 - 00;18;29;06 And it's just, it's the stuff that needs to be done, but no one's addressing it. 00;18;29;09 - 00;18;32;06 And it's like a big elephant in the room that's like, We need to change this. 00;18;32;06 - 00;18;33;10 Yeah.
Absolutely. 00;18;33;10 - 00;18;37;03 And like, like on that point and maybe a little bit queasy, but like, 00;18;37;05 - 00;18;39;25 like not all supervisors are the same, Right? 00;18;39;25 - 00;18;40;02 Right. 00;18;40;02 - 00;18;43;29 Not all supervisors have the same training sometimes.
00;18;44;02 - 00;18;48;28 Like I've worked for supervisors who've been fantastic and I really admire 00;18;48;28 - 00;18;51;12 having that that that guidance 00;18;51;12 - 00;18;54;24 if you if I can call it that so early in my career, because I knew 00;18;54;27 - 00;18;57;01 this is good guidance, this is good leadership, 00;18;57;01 - 00;19;00;17 and I've had supervisors that have like totally isolated me 00;19;00;17 - 00;19;04;26 and especially in the work from home atmosphere with ten years of experience, 00;19;04;26 - 00;19;08;04 I have felt like loneliness in my job.
00;19;08;04 - 00;19;10;22 And I mean, it's so much harder for me. Yeah. 00;19;10;22 - 00;19;15;00 And so when I think about people who are just entering the, the industry 00;19;15;04 - 00;19;18;04 and like when we used to go to work, we'd look over everybody's shoulder 00;19;18;12 - 00;19;19;28 and we would see what they were doing. 00;19;19;28 - 00;19;23;20 And that was like part of the magic of working in an animation studio, right?
00;19;23;24 - 00;19;25;28 You don't have that as much anymore. Yeah. 00;19;25;28 - 00;19;28;05 So if they can go to the studio, they'll get it. 00;19;28;05 - 00;19;31;22 But it's it's just not as prevalent as what it was like.
00;19;31;22 - 00;19;34;02 Yeah. Really in that creative space. 00;19;34;02 - 00;19;38;08 And so we are really trying to make sure that we created an environment 00;19;38;08 - 00;19;42;01 where people get that good leadership so that they know when something's wrong, 00;19;42;01 - 00;19;43;22 something's wrong, and 00;19;43;22 - 00;19;48;05 hopefully they'll be able to come to us even and be like, How do I what do I do. 00;19;48;08 - 00;19;49;02 To.
Help them? 00;19;49;02 - 00;19;50;25 Because I know there's going to be a whole bunch of people 00;19;50;25 - 00;19;54;05 that are like stuck in that and don't know what to do and don't feel comfortable 00;19;54;07 - 00;19;58;03 going to their supervisors or their producers to say like, How? 00;19;58;07 - 00;20;00;10 How do I how can you help me? Right.
00;20;00;10 - 00;20;04;26 That's really yeah, I, I think both of us equally admire what you're doing 00;20;04;26 - 00;20;07;28 and like the importance of it because it's just 00;20;08;01 - 00;20;11;08 it's just I keep saying it's refreshing to have a conversation like I was. 00;20;11;08 - 00;20;14;16 I was a visiting professor at the five colleges in Amherst 00;20;14;16 - 00;20;18;26 and teaching just through the pandemic 00;20;18;29 - 00;20;21;12 animation 2D 3D. 00;20;21;12 - 00;20;25;07 And I realized from an academic standpoint, there is no standard there.
00;20;25;07 - 00;20;28;14 And so yeah, and so I commend you for everything 00;20;28;14 - 00;20;30;19 you're doing, and I would love to be a part of it. 00;20;30;19 - 00;20;31;10 Oh, thanks. 00;20;31;10 - 00;20;32;12 In some capacity. 00;20;32;12 - 00;20;33;28 For.
Sharing future. Yeah. Yeah. 00;20;33;28 - 00;20;35;29 Still sounds like Skillshare.
00;20;35;29 - 00;20;38;01 Yes. Yes, obviously. Yeah. 00;20;38;01 - 00;20;41;13 So in the interest of time, because I know we're already almost there, 00;20;41;16 - 00;20;45;25 please tell us like if if people want to learn more and follow or like, 00;20;45;25 - 00;20;48;11 you know, get connected with you, where where should they go?
00;20;48;11 - 00;20;50;25 You know, feel free to share whatever you're comfortable with. Yeah. 00;20;50;25 - 00;20;53;01 No. Yeah.
It's not like I have a lot to talk about. 00;20;53;01 - 00;20;55;24 Are Social Security numbers 00;20;55;26 - 00;20;57;21 I different? Can? 00;20;57;21 - 00;20;59;03 Oh, that's true.
00;20;59;03 - 00;20;59;29 Yeah. 00;20;59;29 - 00;21;02;06 Yeah. One, what do you have in Canada. 00;21;02;06 - 00;21;03;29 We've seen number seven.
00;21;03;29 - 00;21;05;16 Yes. Social insurance number. 00;21;05;16 - 00;21;07;09 So let's say okay. Yeah.
00;21;07;09 - 00;21;09;06 I think it's probably just a different number. Yeah. 00;21;09;06 - 00;21;10;18 I've learned. I've learned.
00;21;10;18 - 00;21;14;14 I know once I see what it is. 00;21;14;16 - 00;21;17;04 I have a website so you can find me at Lindsay Noel. 00;21;17;04 - 00;21;20;08 Okay. I'm using my name right now, but I'm.
00;21;20;09 - 00;21;23;01 I'm really hoping to get the whole thing under your piece. That's the. 00;21;23;01 - 00;21;24;18 I want that website as well. Yeah.
00;21;24;18 - 00;21;26;12 So we're going to be transferring over. 00;21;26;12 - 00;21;28;09 That'll be a big step for us. Yeah. 00;21;28;09 - 00;21;31;06 When we like really figure out the format of everything.
00;21;31;06 - 00;21;34;03 But Lindsay know the dossier, find everything there. 00;21;34;03 - 00;21;38;13 There's you can see the recordings, past recordings of what we've done and meet 00;21;38;13 - 00;21;39;25 a whole bunch of mentors. 00;21;39;25 - 00;21;41;03 Dischord is a big one. 00;21;41;03 - 00;21;42;27 I don't know exactly how you probably have 00;21;42;27 - 00;21;46;22 to jump through my my website to get to the Dischord.
00;21;46;24 - 00;21;49;00 Things change. Yeah. Constantly. 00;21;49;00 - 00;21;52;29 And then Instagram and LinkedIn as an Instagram is 00;21;52;29 - 00;21;58;02 your PS underscore AMC and then LinkedIn in Miller.
00;21;58;07 - 00;21;58;27 Awesome. 00;21;58;27 - 00;22;01;23 Well, thank you so much for being here, taking the time. 00;22;01;23 - 00;22;04;14 I hope your first podcast experience was good. 00;22;04;14 - 00;22;07;14 Yes, so much fun.
Yeah. Also relaxing. 00;22;07;16 - 00;22;08;09 Oh yes. 00;22;08;09 - 00;22;10;04 That's the environment we like to keep.
Yeah. 00;22;10;04 - 00;22;12;10 Most days. 00;22;12;10 - 00;22;13;10 All right. Thank you.
00;22;13;10 - 00;22;20;25 All right. Thank you so much. That's nicely. 00;22;20;28 - 00;22;24;02 A big thank you, as always to E Media for producing this podcast.
00;22;24;02 - 00;22;26;00 Our producer is Jackson Foote. 00;22;26;00 - 00;22;30;00 Our music is created by hidden and licensed through premium Boots.com. 00;22;30;00 - 00;22;33;04 And as always, stay honest, stay creative.
00;22;33;05 - 00;22;34;05 Stay open. 00;22;34;05 - 00;22;36;05 Open Pixel Studios, Thanks. 00;22;36;05 - 00;22;37;06 We'll see you in the next episode.
053 - Jennie & Kaci at Mothers of Mograph62 / 100052 - POVs - The Rules for Collaboration54 / 100050 - BYB - Using Templates in Your Work53 / 100048 - SLAE - Mike Morris at BlueOwl63 / 100051 - SLAE - Julian Curi at Righteous Robot