200. The Final Episode

Speaker A: Well, this is it.

Speaker B: This is truly the final countdown.

Speaker A: I was about to say this is the last one. The final episode of the B2B Power Hour. Man, what a journey it's been. And I loved our retro conversations the last two episodes, uh, unpacking both of our experiences, how the show came to be, what we've learned along the journey. And now I was excited for today. This is our sign off, and I think we're looking to the future. We're looking about what's next and reconnecting with our original mission and vision. So, man, I still can't believe it's episode 200. Uh, I mean, I just need to start there before we get to everything else. It's crazy.

Speaker B: I don't know where the time went.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know. It's been insane.

Speaker B: Insane.

Speaker A: But as we look to the future, I mean, Nick, what's on the top of your mind right now?

Speaker B: It's hard to look at our episodes, look, you know, go through and reminisce about the moments and not go back to the original question that started it all. And so, you know, listeners, you've probably heard me say this before, but it has been a while since I've said it is. My goal was to help sellers understand how they could succeed without losing themselves in the process because of my instance where I burned out and almost died. And so it set me on that journey of trying to figure out what does it actually take to succeed and is that something that's possible? And what I came up with was one big question is, why is that goal still difficult today? You know, if you're, wherever you're listening to this, tag a friend, send this to someone and have that conversation. Because I think you'd be surprised at the people that need to have it. Because all too often we get told to just own it and do it ourselves and we don't tap into anything else. And I realized through this whole journey with you, Morgan, that sales truly is the scapegoat of bad business.

Speaker A: I realized the same thing, I think. I mean, I know our collaboration started with me ragging on sales for screwing it all up. I've learned my lesson in that I think that the problems tend, uh, to be so much more high level or strategic than what an individual seller can be responsible for. And that they do get scapegoated in a company where there's a lot of other things outside their individual control.

Speaker B: That's kind of crazy when you break it down and you really think about everything. And it's also kind of crazy looking at how people are still trained and what the best practices are and why. I think maybe that's one of the most frustrating pieces of this entire journey is that we still have the same conversations we did at the start from supposedly world leading companies. And I know I'm going to get flack for this, I just don't care. But why are you cold calling? Don't get me wrong, there is a reason. Just most people don't know it. That's the problem because there's a huge difference between telemarketing and cold calling. And I think it's in the malpractice that it all fell apart because if a doctor didn't have a diagnosis or didn't go to school to understand how things worked in your body then they wouldn't be able to do their job. Yet we're taught how uh, our products work, not the job that they're meant to fulfill.

Speaker A: That's a problem and a sustained one I think. I mean and maybe even more so there's been, oh I mean I don't know but venture funding's been drying up. But I know that there's a lot more software startups today than there has been in previous years particularly in B2B SaaS. And they're all. There are so, so many companies that will probably not make the leap between or whatever. What is that called? It's on the product adoption curve. There's, there's, you know, there's the famous the gap or something like that. Yeah.

Speaker B: Get past the Elliot do adapters to mass adoption.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. To actually break through beyond the get go. And that's not, I mean I think a lot of that onus to your point is tends to be put on the sales organization or they hire a marketer in the hopes that that's their salvation when in reality there's a bigger strategic issue at play. Could be messaging, could be critical insight, could be a lot of things that the you know, ends with the executive team and not some SDR that just gets taught how to. Or an uh, AE actually who just gets taught how to demo the suite of software.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah. It's like any social program. The moment that you remove choice, you kill purpose. The world Freakonomics is definitely in play in the world and we're not in a zero sum game. And I think that's the issue that most people don't realize is that there aren't winners and losers unless you're just doing what doesn't work. And even that is a learning Thing. And I think what the question I'd like to ask you, Morgan, that kind of, I think is a more positive, forward facing view on this is what will it take to increase the quality of life for sales professionals?

Speaker A: Probably hire fewer of them. I mean, let me start there. I think this is quite the loaded question because there's a lot of things to do. But honestly, hire fewer of them. Like there are so many companies that over hire sales and then they never train them or they never have the time and energy to support them.

Speaker B: It never happens.

Speaker A: They just throw them to the wolves. And in part of that too, either it's a technical leader to the company who doesn't have a sales background, or many times there are sales leaders who have a more traditional background. They haven't caught up to the way that sales and marketing works today. And so they're stuck doing rote exercises that are, you know, best for 2015. It's like, hire fewer salespeople. Like if you can't, I don't know, this is like a leadership thing for me. If you can't support the people you're hiring, don't hire them. Like that's on you or that's on the leaders. In my view, these companies.

Speaker B: I'd even make it simpler than that, buddy. As a leader, if you can't start a conversation or sell your own product, hiring sales is not the answer. It's because your product sucks. Your marketing message and your value prop is insufficient. And it might be that you shouldn't. You either need to go and go back to the drawing board and it doesn't matter if your VCs are pushing you to go in and you know, spend that money if what you're doing is a useless waste of time. It's like uh, the high efficiency toilets. Yeah, it saves water, but the shit doesn't go down. So what was the point? And I think it actually even goes a step back further. And I think the biggest problem with sales today is not only that leaders hire them too soon and too few at the start. So it's not a team atmosphere, it's a one like it's almost like uh, in sports when you look at. I know the Flames aren't a great example, Calgary Flames for NHL. But we had one good player and that one player could not win because one player can't carry a team. And I think the other part of it is what's your purpose in life? And I think all too often sales, when people stumble into it, because it's never typically a Choice, unless it's something that comes later, is that they get sold. Bullshit. Oh, it's easy money. Oh, it's endless. You know, you can make as much money as you want and you can do all this. It's bullshit. It's a lie. The other problem they don't tell you is you also can't get a mortgage, you can't buy a car because you don't have a fixed income. So you're basically an entrepreneur that gets paid like an employee, but disciplined like an entrepreneur. It's the worst of all worlds. So the one thing that I did find reigns true, and I will be proud to say is the best salespeople are consultants. End of story. And I know you've met a few of them and they all come in different shapes and sizes. You know, Riley Blaisdell is an incredible storyteller. Jen Allen, you know, Goat, take your pick of all these people and what they've done. And their purpose isn't money. It's fixing a problem that pisses them off or drives them, um, for better. Because money is only a milestone.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think there was something I was going to disagree with out of just pure episode 200 of the B2B Power Hour, but then the more that you continued to speak, the more I was like, okay, well, maybe. Actually, I think he has a point here. Oh, I was going to invert, uh, this as well, which is to the. Instead of to the company, to the individual salesperson, like, don't work for bad companies. I mean, and it's a, uh, shit end of the stick. You know, it's. We all have our own obligations in life and kids to look after and families and so forth. And sometimes you do just need the paycheck. I, I've been there before.

Speaker B: Amen.

Speaker A: But also, like Sarah Filipiac always says, like, managing your job opportunities or your career like a pipeline, you know, being able to have those landing points for you in case this role doesn't work out, or in case the compensation goes sideways, or in case the company's product isn't as good as they said it was during your interview process or, and, you know, all these other reasons that company may not be the right fit for you. And I think the role of the individual seller is. Or the individual contributor is changing beneath our feet. I don't think. I mean, even 2020, Nick, like, uh, even the start of the show, like, the problems are the same, but now the solutions are changing. The ways companies can, can do this. And what the individual seller's responsibility is man. And back to your point, I do think, like, the best salespeople I've ever interacted with are basically consultants.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know what? The irony I was thinking about as you're going through that is like, oh, like if they sell you on it, it's easy to sell. You know, it's the best product out there. We're in a category of one. You know what has happened every fucking time? I have done exceptionally well in sales as a 100% commission salesperson every single time. Not one time has this not happened.

Speaker A: I have no idea.

Speaker B: The asshole that hired me sees how much money I'm making because I figured out the G code. I built the formula, I worked through it because, you know, I did like sales led research. I started to really dive into the jobs to be done. I figured out a way to make it work. They see how much money I'm making and then they cut my comp. Because it's not fair. No, it's what wasn't fair is I had to do your job when you were too useless to do it before you hired me. That's what's not fair. And I think that's the hard part about that purpose being bigger is because really, the thing that has really stood out to me throughout this whole thing is that you're basically buying into a franchise as a seller. The problem is most franchises aren't worth buying because they're not done, they're not ready. Things weren't set up. You know, it's not turnkey, what makes people want to buy. You know, a lot of time they'll talk about categories. Nobody talks about what happened, what was the driving action, why are they on the list? But they just say, fight through it because you need to hustle. And if you put the work in, you'll make it happen. That doesn't apply anymore. Yes, you have to work hard still, but people are telling people to work hard because that's how they worked hard in the 80s, 90s or 2000s. Not relevant to today. I think that's my biggest frustration with the quality of life of salespeople is it's still treated as, you know, eat what you kill. It's a team sport, a guilt trip. No safety where you're at. You're only as good as your last quarter. No other category of profession is like that. Like how many engineers are absolute, utter fucking failures in life when it comes to the products they've created because they're not useful, they're just a lookalike do they get fired for it? Does accounting get in trouble for doing a good job of saying, hey, sales, you guys are low. And then go look at, you know, ops and say, hey, you guys need to go and learn how to run a tight ship because you guys are wasting too much money. After we get these people here and you're not keeping them so they're not being profitable. But none of these conversations happen. And that's why I think it's just like a franchisee. Like, you're buying into a franchise because you should be able to either go and sell customers to that company if they're going to pay you like an entrepreneur, or you should be able to pay them to service them, acting like a general contractor. And I think that's why we're seeing so many people freelance and taking these skills, because sales is so universal. You know, from parenting to politics. Like, it's just one thing. When you learn God. Negotiating with a teenager, though, I think a terrorist might be actually easier.

Speaker A: I was about to say. Yeah, there's some real, uh, limits to it. I think the asterisk I would add on this, aside from, like, I answered from a company, you know, improve quality of life by actually supporting your employees better, but from the individual salesperson. And this is funny to be on episode 200 of a podcast talking about this, but, like, tune people out. There are just, like, I think everybody eventually just gets, like, a tribe of mentors. Like, people who you listen to, people who you resonate with. And through the 200 episodes of the show, we've talked smack about probably some people who are mentors to other folks. But, like, I don't care about that. There are so many people out there offering advice, and particularly if you tune in on LinkedIn. But you could pull up substack, and there's going to be, like, 40 different newsletters on selling advice, and there's going to be. Then there's all of the branded campaigns now from these sales tech companies where they put together resource libraries for all the best tactics on outbound sales, or, you know, your definitive guide to xyz. And, you know, there is a universe, like, the actual universe is infinite and constantly expanding, which, when you start thinking about that phrase, that, like, blows your mind that the universe of sales content is actually quite finite. There are only so many things to talk about, and sure, you can add your own flavor. So the goal is to find the people, in my view. I think the goal of the individual salesperson, the thing that would increase their quality of life, is Tune everybody out and find the people you actually enjoy listening to and that you actually enjoy learning from. Cause once you got that, you're fine. You don't need to, like, sure, you can. I don't know. I'm automatically, like, qualifying my statement. I was like, yeah, of course you can always learn more. But there's a difference between learning more or, like, sharpening the saw and constantly scrolling to find some new perspective or try and find a new sales influencer. Oh, what's the next greatest hack? You know, chasing, basically.

Speaker B: And that goes back to purpose instead

Speaker A: of leading your own career.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah. Play a game of your own.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, one thing I really appreciate, I saw it not Too long ago, Mr. Beast, they went and do this montage of all the different interviews he's done. That is a man that has had an incredible change in how he speaks. Oh, my goodness. But the one thing that really stuck through all of it, he does lots of incredible experiments. Yes. He spends money in things that most people don't, you know, hint in clu. Clue. But, uh, the thing that really stood out is his mission. His mission literally has not changed since the start. I want to make more money so I can make better videos. What are you doing? I'm trying to make better videos. You know. What are you working on now? I'm looking at new ways to make better videos. Uh, and we think about sales, like, how often. Like, I'm just looking at new ways to make more money. I'm looking for ways to make my job easier. I'm looking for. And I never realized how important that was. And I think I was telling you not long ago, like, the prospecting dilemma, only five are alive. And these different games that I created for myself were such a blessing in disguise because all I did is I took the, you know, the guilt trip you get on the Monday morning sales meeting. I just didn't give a shit. All I looked at is, was I getting better? Because execution is all that matters. And that was such a breath of fresh air. And like, I was telling you about, uh, like, understanding my numbers and having my, my float, my prospecting float, pipeline float. And I think that was the one thing for, you know, to really have a, uh, quality of life in sales. You have to create a game of your own. Be David and Slay the Goliath. Because you're not going to win on their terms. They're just going to make you broke and broken. So when you change it and make it fun, you're going to learn faster than you ever have before. And now you get to go and find the mentors that mean something. Not just because they have a big social presence and spoke bullshit advice that they've never actually done anything with. Not that people actually do that or

Speaker A: you get the luck of the draw and you have a great manager. I mean I know maybe our constant rag through the years have been poor managers because it is quite common but I know enough sellers that have had a great sales director or a great VP of sales that you can learn from. And it's to your point, if it's your own game, if you lead your own career, doesn't mean every job you work is going to be good.

Speaker B: Uh, but that's the point, Morgan. Also knowing when to leave is such a critical skill that never gets taught. I wish somebody would have told me don't work for a small company when you start because they haven't done the work. You're going to do the work and they're not going to pay you for it. Started a bigger company with a reputation that invests 100 grand into training into you and then once you know you've mastered the basics, if there's nowhere to climb that is meaningful to you, get the hell out. Go to a smaller company where you have more control and you are open to new experiences. But I never got taught that and if I would have been told that holy crap would have been so different.

Speaker A: Yeah, well and I mean I think it's credit for a lot of things in career. It's not just sellers on that. I don't think a lot of people are taught when to, when to leave a job. As a marketer there's, there are reasons to leave a job that's for sure. Uh, that you know, aren't precisely the same reasons that sellers should. Mostly because our compensation is not variable, not usually and doesn't tend to be reduced if we do too good of a job, which is also sadly quite common or if the company does too good of a job. Oh no, we need to pay our people less. Which is still mind boggling to me. But that you know these skills. To kind of take a final stab at this question. What will it take to increase the quality of life of sales professionals? I think we have to all remember that like work is work. I mean at the end of the day a friend of mine has a very funny mantra. She says work is an economic transaction. It should enable you to live life outside of work. Right. That we all have things that we want to do in life. I don't Know what passions you, the listeners have. I like to travel, I enjoy reading, I have a great time with my own partner. Like work is a part of the formula and if of the holistic formula and if your job is getting in the way of that, leave if you can or start charting an exit path or have an exit strategy to get out in a certain number of months after you've made some fulfillments or whatever, you know, it's okay. The piece of career advice I disagree with the most is that you shouldn't job hop.

Speaker B: Yeah. Pay me a pension and maybe that would be relevant.

Speaker A: Correct? No, I mean, so you only work somewhere a year and a half. Okay. What did you learn? You know, why did you only stay for a year and a half? Like uh, we don't have pension plans anymore. We have 401ks here in the states.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, I put my money in, not. You put your money in.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Although the one thing I'll say about the states versus Canada is didn't realize how your guys insurance works. Do you know, have basic healthcare. And that was definitely an eye opener. But like outside of that.

Speaker A: Oh yeah, I mean that look, there's an asterisk on anything in like leaving or switching jobs in the states when it comes to benefits, uh, and particularly families on benefits. So I'm aware of how much that can constrain our possibilities basically that we look at.

Speaker B: I think if I were to go and do a quick summary of what I would do if I did everything again is have a North Star. That's not money. Try to go and see if I could break it down into steps and find the best puzzle piece, best place to go and be around the same people, uh, on that mission. And mentors change, like Tim Ferriss and the tribal mentors. He nailed it. It changes depending on where you are and what questions you're trying to answer. And then that was one thing I didn't learn until way too late in running workshops was scaffolding in order to be there. What would I need to know? Who would I need to be? And then when something stops fulfilling that. Be respectful, state your purpose, act. And if you have the right people around you, if you're open and you know, get a therapist, you'll learn so much from going to therapy because that's all sales is, is like talk therapy, I swear to God, with a little bit of like, you know, diagnosis but

Speaker A: well, when it's done well, when it's done well.

Speaker B: And I think the other part, which I don't hear enough People talk about is strive for the best experience, always being better, whatever experience you are being held accountable for and also include others that are in that experience. Because if it's a prospect experience, where does it start? Pull marketing in, pull product in. If it's a customer experience, what are the touch points? What are the interactions? And if it's growth, what does that look like? Which is such a weird thing after owning a book for however long and then all of a sudden only dealing with bits and pieces is such a bizarre model that once again takes the power away from sales, but cool, but really drive that experience. And I think maybe that's the one thing that I think marketing is ahead on with digital now is what will it take to constantly achieve a better buying or customer experience. And I think the issue, and I want to leave this, I want to tee it up for you, I think the issue is good marketers have been sitting on this fucker for a while. But stupid leaders are what stop it from happening or bureaucracy or politics because they're more interested in their million dollar status quo instead of opening their eyes at the $10,000 solution that kicked its ass 10 times over just to go and justify. Well, yeah, we have to do it. Do you didn't work?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think a lot of like buying experience and I mean investments on the marketing side come down to the basically outdated mental models of the way that the world works. And we all have them. I mean, goodness, right? There's a certain generation that has no idea how to open a PDF file.

Speaker B: That still blows my mind a little bit, I'm not gonna lie. But. Or the generation doesn't have an email and you're like, what do you mean? You use social media, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, email, fax is more comfortable. I mean we all have old mental models, right? About like the way cars are supposed to work or the way commerce is supposed to work. And there are generational differences on this. They're not as sharp as people make them out to be. But I do think that like through time the world has changed, obviously. And as it has changed, people's expectations have changed. I think our job as business people first before we don. It's sort of like ice, uh, cream. Okay? We're all eating ice cream in business. Some of us add strawberries to our ice cream and other people add chocolate to their ice cream. And some very special people get to add Oreos to their ice cream. But we're all in business, right? Whether we're a marketer or a seller or a customer Service person or a product person or an executive or an individual contributor, it doesn't matter. We're all in business. And I think as business people, our job is to understand what are people's expectations and meet and exceed them. And I think where marketing has been ahead of the curve is that the shifting expectation is buying on your own, or better yet, DIY buying, basically. And we have had this in B2C plenty, right? Like. And B2C still improves this even more and more. I was just shopping for.

Speaker B: Oh, Amazon is such a great example.

Speaker A: Even better than that, I was just shopping for, like, a new home desk. And now they have the little virtual reality place. The desk in your room.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, those are cool.

Speaker A: Which is awesome. And, you know, this isn't like the newest technology on the block, but it's also not a decade old. And so, you know, we had Asynchronous buying through Amazon, but then you had to, like, scroll down to the measurements and you had to take out the measurements, and then you had to read the reviews to see if the measurements were correct. And now you have a virtual reality tool on your phone which, where you can just, you know, hold it up to your room and you can see, oh, is this desk going to fit or not? Based on the measurements of, you know, the room that it captures, which is awesome. So B2C continues to improve this, right? And I think B2B just continues to catch up to that. Here's the only asterisk I'd add to this whole idea, Nick. And this adds in your idea of seller as consultant. There is a certain problem in B2B that, that I don't think technology can solve yet. And that is the coordination problem.

Speaker B: It's m good and close.

Speaker A: When you reach a certain scale, there is just so many people and personalities and emotions and fears all at play. That you do need a quarterback, right?

Speaker B: Hell, yeah.

Speaker A: Or a steward or whatever you want to call that. And that person to work with a champion inside a larger company. If you're selling $10 a month software and somebody can go to your site and sign up for themselves. That's not what I'm talking about. We're thinking of, like, integrated workflows and like, cybersecurity runs into this all the time, right? There's so many different players and technology is just not there yet.

Speaker B: ERP and CRMs.

Speaker A: Yeah. I could see a future where, like, artificial intelligence and large language models get good enough for them to do it asynchronously. But chances are what the AI would be doing is very similar to what a great salesperson would be doing. And I think we just haven't. I don't know if we'll ever get to that point because the experience at that scale of a sale of that, you know, size and number of stakeholders involved, that experience is very different than Amazon. It is very different than a product LED motion. Um, and I don't know if it'll ever go away. You know, humans at our finest. It's our coordination problem.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that and I noticed that Spotify, uh, and Tidal, which are music streaming platforms are both doing layoffs and one of them just actually their CFO jumped too with it. What it made me realize is the one thing it's never taught in sales anymore because we don't manage our own books and we don't actually know what the profitability of shit is anymore because it must, you know, it's such a strange model to not know if you're making money. But keep.

Speaker A: Yeah, but keep selling more. Yeah.

Speaker B: I just can't. I know I can't wrap my head around it, but it's like I had a friend, we were sitting down and he flips appliances and he was trying to tell another friend that sells really high end services that he is actually gets a higher ROI on his money than he does. Fascinating conversation. Both have a corporate finance background, both of them, and it was very interesting and I realized that the stuff that doesn't get talked about because he. Guess how much he spends per month out of pocket just to get started and hold inventory.

Speaker A: No idea.

Speaker B: Thousand bucks. Okay, guess what he does in sales?

Speaker A: Oh, I'm sure it's just incredible.

Speaker B: I think for that input cost he, he does at least $10,000 in revenue at uh, over a 60% margin. The money keeps coming back so he can keep building on that money and the money just keeps growing. Where my friend that runs the service, the high end service company, not only he has to wait a really long time, all the stress and bullshit that goes through that, but then things don't break down or like mhm. And the biggest thing that I've noticed between the two of them is that my friend that's moving quickly sells implementation, sells value so that he stops it before it starts so he doesn't waste his time or his money. And I think that as we start to go and create better experiences, I think we need to really understand customers and what they're willing to pay for in order to put our money where our mouths are and spend the money in the right places that are profitable. And I think that's why the people that are going freelance in these small companies, why they work so well, is you get to find your people, not just find as many people as possible, because some VC can't justify their money only making a 10 or 20% return when salespeople are only having 39% quota attainment. Something about that is wrong.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think with that said, I'd like to go and ask you, Morgan.

Speaker A: Oh, no.

Speaker B: I think this might be my last question to kind of summarize all of this. And it's. Is better sales training the real solution to this problem?

Speaker A: Not in the way that we typically think about it. I don't think so. When I think about a better experience and better quality of life too, because they go hand in hand. You know, better experiences make easier buying, and easier buying makes quota and commission a lot easier. It's so clear that we're in this wave right now of, let's call it data enhanced buying, where we've gotten smart enough tools and if we have people who are smart enough to wire them all together, because you can wire them all together now, even using something as simple or no code as like Zapier, you can do this. And some platforms have it built in automatically or there's native integrations where you can really segment out people's behavior and people's experiences and deliver them the messages that they need at that point in the buying experience. Now that doesn't mean companies who do this actually deliver the right kinds of message. Right. You can build the architecture without executing it well, but that architecture is clearly going to be more and more important. We already see it in the B2C world. I was actually kind of creeped out about this, but I was searching, uh, the Internet for some nice headphones and then I got a promotional email from ebay saying, hey, these headphones are on sale. And I thought to myself, okay, that's incredibly weird. I needed to go work on my cookie setting somewhere. But that sort of experience in the B2C side is already present. We know we get targeted, uh, materials. We know people are hooking data together up on the back end to deliver us things that we want. And in the B2B world, that means when you visit a particular landing page, you're not getting fed a generic BS ad in your LinkedIn feed. You're getting fed a video that's directly related to the content that you also read on that landing page. And then the email Follow up isn't a. I'd, uh, love to schedule 15 minutes with you to discuss more about your challenges, which is terrible. It's a. Hey, saw you were reading this ebook. Would love to share this additional follow on and actually creating that experience. Right, so there's the architecture piece and then there's the execution piece. Sales training does not really interact with any of that. And this is where I think the role of the seller, the individual contributor, is changing because companies can almost do all of what I just mentioned on an automated basis from the architecture side. They need smart people to test and to write messaging that actually resonates with buyers. And I think this is where. I don't know, I mean, where's my soapbox? Nick? I need the wooden crate here for a second. I do think that there needs to be an entry point in the career of sales, and I think sales training is a part of helping them get from zero to hero, let's say. But there's a difference between providing foundational skills and helping people understand the basics. Right. From the series we did somewhere in the 150s, I think of, uh, you know, people from being school teachers or being financial advisors and now coming into tech sales, like, of course you're going to have to train them up. But in this new world and in creating experiences that customers actually want to buy, you know, spending an extra two days on how your product works is probably not the best use of time unless you keep on losing deals because your prospects say, we don't know how your product works. Like, there is a very easy way to see if you need to train more, and that's seeing why customers aren't buying from you. But none of this relates back to, like, I, uh, don't know. A lot of this is a lot bigger than the individual contributor's role. Their hands are tied. And a lot of this is a lot bigger than just whether we can, you know, sit down for another workshop and do some sales training. Okay, soapbox put away.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with so much with what you said. And I think sales is now having the issue that I used to shit on marketing for and is that they're not in touch with the customer anymore. And the reason why I say that is because of remote work and more digital access. And I include myself in this. That's why I still like to take meetings and jump into implementation, is because I want to see where it goes wrong and where it goes right. And I think the industry, I can't believe I'm saying this, that does it better than most is corporate finance and management consultants. And actually, even I would throw even professional services in that, because what do they do? The last step is being sales. But first, you got to be great at your craft. You start out on the ground learning how to do the work. Once you get strong at doing the work and you know how to get ahead of it, you know, diagnose and read the market, learn how money works, then you start to sell. It's the last step. It's not the start. And I think that's the biggest problem with sales is it should have never been the first step.

Speaker A: Yeah, I can only agree more. Or only agree more. Man, even 200 episodes into this, I'm still stumbling over English goodness. I think that where I see the most opportunity for people listening to this and what I'm excited about in the industry, now that this show is sort of coming to a close, is there are so many opportunities for somebody to just chart a new path inside their company. And this is definitely ask for forgiveness, not for permission. You know, it is a, uh, go try something new, see what you can do sort of thing. And the more creative you can get and the more experiential you can get with customers, the more you can sharpen that saw. There are very few companies who actually know what the hell they're doing in this environment, and there's a lot of bluster. But when you pull out the bluster and you actually look at what's going on, a few things are always true. Everyone's kind of scared. Everyone's afraid that they're the emperor with no clothes, and they pretend not to be, and they project confidence and competence. But the best leaders, I think, are humble. They know the limitations. They understand what they don't know. And they also know that they don't know things. Right. That there are unknowns, uh, that there's a lot bigger world out there than the things they solve for right now or know right now. And the more I think individual contributors and managers and executives lead in, lean into that sort of mentality that we're just curious and kind and humble as we go, I think the better off we'll all be.

Speaker B: Yeah. What was the book? Team, uh, of teams. The future is a team of teams coming together around a common cause, driving forward, learning from each other's experiences, learning from each other's trial and error with open communication and no guilt, which is going to kill a lot of these older managers for a while, is getting rid of that guilt for performance. Yeah, we'll Leave that one there. But I think. And that's it. And it's like, you know, going kind of back to my example of the streaming apps. I was joking with a friend that the streaming app that I would rather work for is Roon. One that nobody knows about. Why? Because those that know about it buy it. Because there's only one reason you learn about it. And I think that, that uh, those are the types of products that you want to work for because somebody else has done taught the people you're there to go and accelerate. It's like Apple originally. Why do people buy Apple versus, you know, PC or Android? Simple. You didn't have to spend hours, you know, building your own PC. You didn't have to go and configure all this technical garbage you could just enjoy from day one. And I think that's the thing that you said earlier too is know what people are buying. You know, the person that builds their own computer or you know, invests into hi fi or buys refurbished cameras versus like top end new cameras. Not one of them is wrong. They just value different things. And if you find the people that you uh, align with value with things that mean a lot to you, like you know, family or sports or sports team or a style of learning, the more you get to actually figure out who you are and that identity and align it with who you're selling to. Oh my God. It's like that is the dream.

Speaker A: That is the dream.

Speaker B: And make money in the process and uh, you know, start your only sales account and like really just go hard. Surround yourself with good people. With a North Star, that's not money. And I think that that'll beat sales training any day because most sales training isn't based on what is working in your context or even in this right decade in most cases. Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, all I have to say to finish this out today is thank you for listening as always and to following along the show for the last. Well, I don't know if anybody's actually tuned into all 199 episodes up until today. I'm sure there's a few special few. So if that's you, thank you so much. But thanks for coming along for this journey. It has been an incredible ride. I have loved every minute of this, even when I said I didn't, you know, wasn't a huge fan Nick, behind, you know, in our green rooms or whatever. And thank you Nicholas, for an incredible run of 200 episodes. And today just felt like another day talking about the same stuff that we've Talked about for the last two years and I'm sure we could continue talking about it for a very long time.

Speaker B: Yeah, deja vu. We started with trying to have a, ah, fight but not a fight about how sales and marketing. Sales makes the money and marketing wastes it. Why does marketing still have a job but sales doesn't? And such amazing friendship business platform grew out of it. And I can't thank you enough and just I want to state it and I didn't realize how many resources were available but it's 2023. You guys have heard me say this before, but it is 2023. There is strength in asking for help. You are not alone. There's organizations that are going against the treatment of sales and the pressure that people go because it's by definition depression and anxiety. I can't remember what the acronym stands for, but calm is one of them because they want people to feel fulfilled in life. But it's a sign of strength to ask for help. You're not alone. There's other people that listen to this podcast, I hope and uh, just reach out. Don't bottle it up. You are valuable even if your sales manager isn't. I wish you the best of luck.

Speaker A: You can't just throw in one.

Speaker B: Have a great day.

Speaker A: We got a rag on those sales managers. Oh, that is an all timer. Oh, man. Well, thank you, Nick. Thanks everyone for listening.

Speaker B: Morgan. Morgan. Morgan. Morgan. Morgan. Morgan. Morgan. Morgan. Morgan. Welcome to the brand new B2B Power Hour. We are back. Hi. Did you have to write that backwards too? And we're live.

Speaker A: What is that sweater?

Speaker B: Guys, welcome. Welcome to the very first B2B power hour in person.

Speaker A: Since when is my responsibility opening up the live show? You open it, you close it. I'm here for kicks and giggles. That's, uh, that's the only reason I'm here.

Speaker B: Uh, happy birthday to you. That if positioned correctly, we look a little bit weird. We've got wings behind Alex and then something like growing out of my head. And we'll all ready.

Speaker A: Hello, Hello. Hey, guys. What's up? Hey, guys. Hey, guys.

Speaker B: Hey, guys. Good day, everyone. Super excited to be here. Thanks you guys for having us. How's it going?

Speaker A: I was waiting for the music.

Speaker B: I thought we were going with the music, but I, I feel like that would have been a good way.

Speaker A: We should have had some walk on tracks.

Speaker B: But I was wondering, you know, when, when you have other guests on the show, does Morgan say something like. Yeah, so we got Nick, um, on the show. I, I don't know, I think he's okay.

Speaker A: I gotta say, if anybody has an opportunity to get introduced on a LinkedIn Live, you should take it because it feels really good. Nick, let's dive in.

Speaker B: What changed at their companies that made them buy your product? You don't have to stick to a rigid script of well, I just asked question two, therefore I go to 2B and then if 3C. Okay, so one of the fastest ways to spend speed up why you're reaching out is to build narrow lists.

Speaker A: I'm not looking for mastery by 90

Speaker B: days, but I am, I'm definitely looking

Speaker A: for like taking the training wheels off

Speaker B: and making sure that you're able to do this on your own.

Speaker A: You can learn so much from understanding the journey from prospect to customers. But we both need psychological safety on the sales floor. Even those traditionalist leaders, right?

Speaker B: If your marketers are sounding like your

Speaker A: icp, that just creates the idea that

Speaker B: the business gets it could not say,

Speaker A: uh, that better ourselves. Woo. That was great. Um, I believe we're at the end of the time. This power hour has just flown by.

Speaker B: As you guys know, it's 2022. It is no longer acceptable to suffer in silence. Sales, marketing, cs. If you guys are here and you need help, if you need help, if you need help, you do not need to buy anything to go and get help. Reach out to either of us or people in the comments. You mean the world to us and thank you so much. Thank you everyone. Thanks for joining us for this B2B power. So thank you for tuning in and can't wait to see you next week.

Speaker A: Bye. Asking me, how are you different than more? I say, I'm not different, I'm better.

Speaker B: Like, oh,

Speaker A: and AE's asked me, how are you different than Charles? I'm like, who's Charles?