Creative B2B marketing Innovation at Cisco

Speaker A: Welcome to B2B needs. Don Draper, brought to you by Tru. For too long, B2B has lacked creativity and inspiration, leading to alarming declines in effectiveness and marketing departments being slowly devalued more and more within their organizations. We're here to change that by getting under the skin of what it really means to be a highly effective B2B marketer. We'll be speaking to some of the brightest minds in the industry to discuss. Discuss what they're doing to be a bit more well, Don Draper. Now to our host, Nathan Anibaba.

Speaker B: Welcome back to B2B, Nissan Draper, the show that's as irresistible as a Don Draper pitch itself. I'm your host, Nathan Alibaba, and today we are speaking with Emma Ruffi, the former VP of Marketing for EMEA at Cisco. With a career spanning nearly two decades at Cisco, Emma has witnessed and contributed to the evolution of IP based networking technologies, which have shaped the digital landscape that we now know today. Cisco, with its 71,000 employees worldwide, has been a pioneer in routing, switching, home networking, storage area networking, and wireless technology. Emma's journey at Cisco is a testament to her creativity, energy, and passion for what she does. So, Emma ruffi, welcome to B2B needs.

Speaker C: Andrepa, thank you very much and nice to see you again. Nathan.

Speaker B: Nice to see you as well. Um, Emma, uh, really excited to have you on the show. First question that we ask all of our guests, what does being a bit more Don Draper mean to you?

Speaker C: Yeah, I watched Mad Men quite a while ago, so I had to refresh my mind, and I think what it means to me is a few things, actually. One being quite brave, the second being very intuitive. Um, and I think thirdly, really listening to the customer, and actually another fourth one, really thinking about your differentiation points and, um, maximizing those and building from those.

Speaker B: So let's talk about a couple of them, because bravery is not something that is probably synonymous with a lot of B2B marketing campaigns. If we look at the landscape of B2B marketing recently, uh, brave campaigns, and brave marketing is one of the things that's probably sadly lacking. So maybe let's talk a little bit about why that is. I think the last time that we spoke, we discussed the fact that a lot of B2B marketing has become quite product centric, a little bit boring, a little bit samey. There's a lack of distinctiveness in a lot of brand marketing campaigns for large enterprise brands. Why do you think that is? Why does B2B marketing tend to, uh, not be differentiated? Why do we tend to look and sound like our competitors.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think when we discussed it I sort of said it was the sea of sameness. You could eradicate a brand's name, um, particularly if I'm talking about the technology market. Although I'm sure it's different for, I'm sure it's very similar for other markets. And actually we could all be saying the same thing. And it's very hard to differentiate the reasons why. I don't think it's, I don't think B2B marketeers go out and think we're not going to be brave, we're not going to be bold, we're not going to be agile, we're not going to be creative and innovative. But actually the demands on the quarterly basis, particularly in large enterprises where there's so much to market, the pressures for speed don't particularly allow you that time to be very innovative, to be very creative and really hone in on those differentiation points. And that's hard to do. To think, okay, how do I differentiate from my nearest competitor? And then to really streamline that, that takes innovation, that takes creativity. But equally the pressures you've got to get it out in that quarter because a lot of organizations budgets are done quarterly. They may have a, uh, good annual view but actually the concrete dollars comes in quarterly. And that's quite hard, you know, to then change um, and build on ideas. So that ends up being a sea of sameness. Maybe it's not people are not risk takers enough in B2B as they are in consumer. And maybe, maybe that's it. Not during lack of willing, but I think the day to day pressures and time that people have on them, it's. Yeah, it doesn't allow so much for that.

Speaker B: It's interesting because you could argue on one hand that it's actually more risky not to be innovative and not to be creative and to kind of stay with a sea of sameness. You know, if all of your competitors are doing and sounding the same, the thing that is probably more risky for your career and longevity is to do the same things and to get, you know, uh, not a great return on your campaigns.

Speaker C: But I don't think people do see that. I think they're very proud of their own work and maybe don't have that time because of the pressures to do a real competitive analysis and um, have that luxury of time to say, okay, if we did remove our brand name and I had four or five competitors up against me, how different actually are we? I think you're proud of your own work, you've got your solution across, you're solving that customer's problems. It's on um, brand. You're getting it out there, it's professional, it looks good. And um, I think you, you don't realize necessarily then the executions out there. It performs, it performs, but we never know how much better it would perform if it truly was differentiated.

Speaker B: So let's bring this back to your time at Cisco. You've been there 19 years. Your time has recently come, come to an end. But you can probably speak to this because I think that in the history of or the evolution of technology brands, quite early on, there's a large emphasis on big brand campaigns, really creative campaigns. But as the enterprise gets more mature and established and corporate, there is maybe there's less of a willingness to be more creative and do those bold risk taking, uh, you know, those campaigns that have a little bit more risk associated to them. Is that your experience in, in large enterprise brands in general? Can you speak to that?

Speaker C: No, no, not at all.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: I um, think when anyone dissects their marketing, uh, budget, I would say a large percentage, and I can't quote what was at Cisco, certainly a large percentage is on building that brand. Despite um, if I look at Cisco, you know, being the top, I think in the top 15 brands worldwide, well known. Despite all of that, there's still the importance of brand positioning. And every few years Cisco would have come out and still will come out with a massive brand campaign. Now is it risk taking? Maybe not. But certainly we've had Tomorrow starts here followed by there's been a, never been a better time and now the bridge to possible. They're always big, big campaigns that if you like, that have many chapters because in large enterprises and everyone's got a lot to say, everyone's got a lot of chapters in their story. Um, so you have to be very smart about what you focus on because there's not an infinite amount of dollars. So I would say no. I think brand is always, always critical and always probably eats up a lot of the marketing dollars, full stop for any large enterprise. And so it should.

Speaker B: I was listening to a, uh, podcast recently with a very senior um, marketeer at Salesforce and he was talking about a very similar thing for them. In the early days, um, they were very creative. There were a lot of really big, uh, brand campaigns. But as Salesforce got bigger and more mature, um, they were less and less creative and they started thinking about why that was. Um, so they had to do some soul Searching. And they came up with the campaign that's really quite famous now, Astro and Friends, which, uh, there's a lot of soft, cuddly, uh, animals and furry animals and that sort of thing. And I think a lot of stakeholders looked at it initially and thought, well, why are there bunnies and dogs in our lobby? Um, but actually, it created a really distinctive brand for Salesforce. And he credits that partly is the reason why Salesforce have been able to grow in the way that it has and sort of separate themselves from their competitors. Is there anything that we can sort of learn from that example? And, uh, why aren't we seeing more of that in B2B?

Speaker C: Well, it's interesting, as you described, that I was like, oh, no way, no way. Kill the fluffy toys. But actually, in reality, I suppose they're sort of dumbing things down or being more warm, more friendly in. If it's worked for them, fantastic. I know we've had little characters. You often get little characters and stuff. And that relates well. We're human, after all. You know, B2B is not selling to robots, and there's no emotion or no human connection in any of it. Quite the opposite. You know, you're selling always and you're marketing to people. Um, so, yeah, if that's worked for them, fantastic. You know, it's a bit like, at the moment, very apt. Whether we dare, and you can tell me whether we not or not dare talk about Christmas ads and, you know, your reflection on the John Lewis one with the plant. So I can have certain opinions about that. But equally, what it's trying to tell a story, it's emotive, it's got longevity there. It's. You know, they could get. They can get a lot of mileage out of that, but it's a. I don't know, it's an emotional plant or whatever you want to call it, and you suddenly think, really, really. Is that what we. Is that what it comes to? Um, but I think with. With B2B, there is so much room for more emotion. There is so much room for human connection, um, and that emotional intelligence. So we just got to be whatever it is, whether we got to shake off, um, the constraints that we put on ourselves, because no one is putting that on us. Um, whether we have to be brave, whether we have to be bold. I don't know what it is, but I think we just gotta let go, be a bit freer and have more fun.

Speaker B: You talk about emotion. One of the campaigns that you almost ran for Cisco a few years Ago involved humor.

Speaker C: Oh God, yes. Yeah.

Speaker B: You hired a comedian to come, uh, up with a, uh, really interesting campaign. Maybe you can unpack that for our listeners. Maybe talk about what, what the campaign was and why did you decide to pull it in the last minute.

Speaker C: Well, well, first off, I'll say it's not a brand campaign. It, it, you know, it was a small activity on a certain part of, on the customer marketing side at Cisco and sort of eating my own words, I suppose I tried to be brave, tried to be a bit different and use humor in a, in a campaign. Um, so, yes, great. Quite rightly, we hired a comedian. We had a days on site, uh, filming. We spent a lot of money on it. I'm not going to reveal how much. We spent a lot of money on it. And then I've seen the output and I remember showing my husband and watching to see if he laughed and just blank face. I'm like, oh, this isn't, this isn't funny and it's supposed to be funny. And I thought, kept going, I kept going, I kept going. And because we spent the money, because time was of the element, we'd spent the money and I felt guilty for spending, uh, that money if I wasn't going to execute. And I can't remember the event, but I was an external event. And if you're like me, sometimes when you're external events, it actually gives you time to think. You're away from that minute by minute pace. Every day gave me time to think. And I literally can't remember what was being said, but I remember stepping outside that, making a phone call back to my team and I said, we are not going live with the humor, with the comedian. And they were a bit like what? I said, that is not going out in my name on my watch, in my team. I said, I don't feel happy about it. I've let it sort of sink in. It's not funny. But don't worry about it. We tried and we best not let that out because I'm not proud of the work. And I think that's another measure, you know, are you proud, Are you proud to have this out in your name? And I thought, no, I'm not. And some could argue, I suppose it's a waste of money, but I don't think it was. We tried, we tried something new, we tried humor, we took a risk, but in this instance it didn't work. Now should I have carried on? And this is where it goes back to the pace and the pressure that's on you. Because that's not to say humour won't work and wouldn't work in the future, but I had to draw a line under that because of the next quarter's pressures or the next six months pressures. And I didn't have time to go back and explore and really dissect why that didn't work. And should we try again? We just moved on. And I think for B2B and large enterprises. Well, not B2B, sorry, for large enterprises. I think that that is an issue, the pace in which we're working. You know, everyone says, oh, it's good to fail, it's good to fail, but you've got to learn from that failure and then really try again. But in this instance we didn't. We just, we just moved on and never had a chance to go back. Um, so I would say yes, we tried, we took a risk and everyone should try. But give yourself that Runway to really fail if you want, but analyze it and go again from that.

Speaker B: Really interesting. I wonder what else we can learn from that example. And thank you for sharing it. Um, I wonder, was there a mismatch between the idea when it was proposed and the execution? Somewhere between having the fantastic idea that I'm sure that everyone was. Was loved and was galvanized by somewhere along the way? Maybe it was the execution along the way that didn't maybe materialize.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker B: Did that put you off from doing similar sorts of things in the future? Because again, that's also something that's potentially sort of worth considering.

Speaker C: Probably yes to all of that. M. Um, you could argue, was the comedian right? They should have been. Was the script right? No. Did we put ourselves under undue pressure and timelines? Yes. So when I learn from that, did it stop me doing it again? Yes. Is that right? No, it's not. Um, but, uh, yes, I learned a lot. I learned a lot. So it doesn't stop me doing it now in the future? Absolutely not. I think I would just have it give it a lot more prep work I think is probably the instance and be quite fussy on the script far more than I was. I sort of. I think it's in my natural nature to trust and I think I over trusted and I think I needed to be a bit more fussy, uh, a bit more scrutinizing, a bit more pressure on it for it to. To really land the message and what I was learning. And anyone who's comedian, probably humor is hard. That's probably the hardest thing to get right. Because what's funny for one is not another. But I just remember my husband's face just looking at me looking back. Is that, is that supposed to be funny? I was like yeah, yeah. Oh God. No it's not.

Speaker B: Died. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Oh, it died completely. Yeah.

Speaker B: Really interesting. And another thing that happens when become a big enterprise company is that we start using more buzzwords. You know, we start using more complicated language instead of plain English that's rife in B2B. Why do we do that and how do we combat it? And actually, you know, is there an argument to say that actually we need to do that more because we are more established, we're a big recognized brand and we have to act accordingly.

Speaker C: Yeah, we do do it but I don't think again we realize we're doing it. You know, when you join a company, ah, the amount of an acronyms, buzzwords, it's just the way of being And I think you have to be quite brave when you join a new company to put your hand up and go I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying because you've just spoken in multiple three letter words. You know, okay, abm even someone new might have to ask what that is. We just talk in that way and for some reason it just then gets followed through into our creative um, you know, into the words we're using because we want to come across as professional. And I think there's that fine line between being professional and being more human um, and really marketing to people. And that's where the bravery comes in. Um, so again I just don't think we realise it. It's just the norm and with anything you have to break the norm and someone brave enough to keep asking why are we doing it like this? And the answer is because we always do isn't good enough. It's keep questioning the why, why, why, why are we doing like this? Why can't we change just because we've always done this? So yeah, maybe that's your word of the day. Make sure you ask anyone, make sure you ask why at least once a day.

Speaker B: M really interesting. What do you define as great B2B marketing?

Speaker C: No different than great B2C marketing in that we have to truly understand the end customer, their needs, their solutions and any marketing that really deals with those problems and can solve those problems and really get into the mindset of the customer will win. So I don't think it's any different than great B2C marketing but I suppose and then the customer as we define it will be Multiple people where that's the difference than B2C. So really thinking of a company, that organization, what that company needs, what problems they need to solve, what solutions and then deliver that great customer experience and

Speaker B: that recognition, what have you learned about doing that? Well, over your time at Cisco, I'd

Speaker C: probably say self serve, uh, if we think over that long period of time, as you keep stressing those 19, 20 years, um, from where we've gone to that digital transformation really. And really, if I boil it down, that digital transformation is for an end customer being able to find out and self educate themselves before they even are in contact with a salesperson or the organization. So their expectations have increased and what we need to deliver. So it goes back to what I was saying, that understanding of what your customer needs and potentially needs or your prospect needs is important to be able to serve that up to them that they can self serve and self educate. So you're putting more power in the hands of the customer, um, for that education and them feeling more comfortable or more educated when they actually finally make that contact with you. Because a lot of decisions are being made through that whole decision making process way before they contact you as an enterprise. So you need to allow that for self serving.

Speaker B: If you look at B2B marketing in the next three to five years, enterprise B2B marketing and take a big company like Cisco, will it be the same factors that make B2B marketers successful, uh, as they are now and as they have been in the past, or will there be different things do you think that we will need to prioritize and focus on as B2B marketers?

Speaker C: It's not rocket science. We have to understand our uh, customers needs and prospects needs. The difference is going to be the amount of intelligence we have on that customer, the predictiveness, the AI that will allow us to be even more educated and even smarter. When we engage with a customer equally the customer's expectations are going to be a lot higher. Um, the customer experience will have to be second to none pre, during and um, post sales. So I think we've got to be a lot smarter there. So the intelligence we have will help us, but equally the expectations from the customer will be higher. So we've got to be smarter. And it goes back to where I think I first started on the differentiation. You have to stand out so those differentiators and really having your value proposition articulated well and have that differentiation in the market is going to be crucial.

Speaker B: I think absolutely love it. Okay, Emma, that ends our uh, main broadcast section of the show. Now we're going to get into our favorite part of the show, which is our speed round might be your favorite. It's true. You. I don't think you've prepped much for this.

Speaker C: I haven't.

Speaker B: That's the exciting part. Okay. So I'm going to ask you these questions. Just respond quickly from the gut. You don't have to think too much about it. Almost as Don Draper would, um, you know, put yourself in Don's shoes. Okay. Are you ready?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Advertising or abm?

Speaker C: Abm.

Speaker B: Logic or magic?

Speaker C: Ooh, uh, magic.

Speaker B: Brand building or lead generation?

Speaker C: Brand building.

Speaker B: What's the problem with B2B right now?

Speaker C: Boring.

Speaker B: How would Don Draper fix it?

Speaker C: Oh, he'll go with his intuition.

Speaker B: He definitely would. What's the last memorable advert, uh, that you can think of on tv, online, wherever.

Speaker C: Oh, one I like of late is Accenture Let There Be change with the moving tree. The tree that actually walks. I was so inspired by that. I absolutely love Accenture's, um, Let There Be change campaign.

Speaker B: I. That freaked me out.

Speaker C: I loved it. I googled it. To see.

Speaker B: I Googled it. Yeah.

Speaker C: Well. Well, that is a call to action. That is impressive. And I just. Then how that made me feel about Accenture, I thought, yes, spot on. I love that.

Speaker B: How did it make you feel about

Speaker C: Accenture that they understood? It's like, yeah, go to them for change, that they are inspirational. They will reinvent. Uh, they will get the creativity out of you. I just. I just. I just loved it.

Speaker B: Okay, and final question. What's your favorite Don Draper quote or moment?

Speaker C: I don't know. I don't know if there's any one moment. But I think the thing that capitalizes for me, he might be, after a while, he might be the last person to speak because he's truly listened to the customer and the feedback, and he sends it in the room, and then he just as though it's all soaks in, and then he comes out with a gem, and I love that sort of reflection and taking it all on board. And then he's the last hope. Often in the room, he's the last hope. And then they all look really proud of him, you know, when he comes out with the next big idea. So, uh, I just love that sort of absorption and then his intuition, and he can turn it on.

Speaker B: That's a great place to end. Emma, Raffi, thank you so much for a, uh, fun and insightful chat.

Speaker C: No m. Problem. Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker B: I'm Nathan Anibarber. See you next time on B2B needs M. Don Draper.

Speaker A: Find out more@TrueAgency.com podcast.