#70: How Market Research Accelerates Healthcare Innovation

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hello everyone and welcome. We are Beata Miklos and Niklas Heitlan from B2B International. And today we have the pleasure of speaking with two researchers whose work sits at the intersection of cutting edge science and real world innovation. First, Dr. Christina Wubben, ah, a postdoctoral researcher at the Institute of Clinical Chemistry and Clinical Pharmacology of the University Hospital Bonn and part of the Immunosensation Cluster of excellence. Cristina's background is in chemistry and her research focuses on developing immunostimulatory RNA based strategies for innovative immunotherapies targeting cancer and viral infections.

Speaker C: Joining her is Sandra Lewas, a PhD researcher at the University Hospital Bonn. Sandra works closely with Christine, uh, with the uh, immunosensation Cluster and is a co author on a peer reviewed publication on immunostimulatory RNA and RIGI activation. Together they are also involved in an innovation project called Coldex, led by Christine and Dr. Simone Canero from the Ludwigs Maximilian University of Munich to develop a nasal spray for the early treatment of viral respiratory infections. This project has already received funding from the German Ministry of Research, Technology and Space and the Federal Agency for Breakthrough Innovations Sprint, a strong signal for its potential societal impact. Today we will explore not only the scientific work, but also how structured market research supported their innovation journey.

Speaker D: Thank you so much for having us. Uh, thank you, thank you.

Speaker A: Glad to be here.

Speaker C: Nice to have you here. But before we dive into the role of market research itself, let's start with your innovation. Could you maybe please briefly explain, um, what is the innovation about how it started and where you are today?

Speaker D: Yes, sure. So the innovation originated from basic research on um, immunostimulatory RNA and innate immune activation. And, and the full principle is based on the scientific fundament on the investigation of a specific ligand for immune stimulation. And this comes all back to a publication in our group from Gunter Hartmann and his group from 2006. So already some years ago that was published in Science, a really high impact journal. And our goal with Coldx is to build on this really excellent basic research. So we are developing a nasal spray for antiviral protection. Um, and what we want to do is we want to translate this project that comes from basic research into a product with a real world application.

Speaker B: So the entire idea actually started from the research from one of the scientists, um, from university. And you did not know from the very beginning that this innovation can be applied for such a broad, uh, audience, or was this already in the beginning?

Speaker D: So, um, a few Years ago, in 2016 around, there were already a uh, startup in our group. Um, so we already had the idea that translation is possible. But with the investigation of the novel ligand we, we were thinking back again, what can we do with such amazing outcome from basic research? But scientific evidence uh, is not enough. So we have to figure out where can we use this. And for this it's really essential to understand the market.

Speaker B: Yeah. And thinking now specifically about this very project, when actually did you realize that you will need market research? So what, what, at what stage of the project you came to this idea to do it?

Speaker A: So I would say when we had proven the scientific feasibility of our ligand so that we were able to show that it works in principle in cell culture, uh, we thought like okay, what can we use it for? And for that we had to see what is the need on the market. So what, what does the target groups need? Um, what is the commercial potential? And yeah, we tried to do it a bit on our, on our own, but it proved really hard. So uh, we looked then for an external agency to get some expertise and also an unbiased perspective because we were really deep into our scientific research of course. But uh, sometimes it's hard to see the broader picture.

Speaker B: Then can I just ask if this kind of evidence was also necessary to get the funding for fedr, uh, research.

Speaker D: So the early um, funding schemes are really based from translation, are really based on the scientific side. They want to see the science first and then you should think about what can you do with that. Which makes absolutely sense because we all want to have something that is really valuable and really proven to make a uh, difference.

Speaker A: Yeah. Actually the market research uh, we did then with the external partner with you guys, uh, was also funded by the bioinitial grant or. Yeah. So um, we got specifically the money to get a uh, look at the market and to see what is the best way to um, approach this. Yeah.

Speaker C: And what assumptions did you actually had in the beginning, um, that you were unsure and needed to validate? You had some, some assumptions already.

Speaker A: Yeah. So of course we thought on our own like who would ah, benefit from an antiviral nasal spray? And of course if you think like fraud, everyone can um, um, benefit from it. But um, it's not easy to go into the market on this broad area. So we had to like focus or um, yeah, had to focus on key user groups and we weren't sure which will they be because we could just think for our own but we couldn't ask them like are you interested in taking this? And um. Yeah, we also wanted to see like which application, for example prevention or therapy, because we can use it for both, uh, would offer the greatest market potential and the uh, best use case, especially for the first market access.

Speaker D: And I would like to add that to this point we were not even sure if we want to develop a nasal spray. So we were also thinking about different solutions. But it turns out nasal spray would

Speaker A: be really cool to have. True.

Speaker C: And um, were there also some other kinds of risks you were hoping to reduce? I can imagine there's a lot of funding and a lot of different persons involved. Um, so there must be some risk, uh, I think which can appear were there any kinds of risk you wanted to reduce um, through this project.

Speaker D: So I think the, the main risk is to develop something that no one needs, that no one wants to use. So if you, if you have something and no one wants to buy it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Ah, then it doesn't make sense to develop this further. But especially talking about the therapeutics, it's really a key to understand regulatory challenges. You can't develop something that is right regulatory, not allowed to use. So we have to also take this into account and also the development costs. So does it, does it make sense to invest so many budget to develop this nasal spray? So there are really a lot of different um, risks we have to think about.

Speaker B: Yeah. And actually this is something that um, also many of clients, companies that we work with, um, the reason why they do the research, whatever decision you take, they are very often connected with big budget decisions to enter the market to introduce a new product. So the investment you make in market research can really help to avoid such false decisions and make it the entry more effective. But now uh, speaking of the budget, of course there are always restrictions so budget that you have available for the research and in ideal world if your budget were bigger, at what point of innovation process would you incorporate market research?

Speaker D: I think as early as possible. Um, because as you mentioned everything is building on who would at the end also use this product. So we have to get a really clear idea who is our customer. Uh, so everything but. Yeah, everything is building on that. But it should also goes in parallel with the technology development because you also do not want that the competitors are faster than you. So I think there are really a lot of challenges um, in the startup world and thinking about the market should be something that comes really at the very beginning.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. But I also appreciate the fact that you did some research, at least try to do some research internally. So I think that's also some Kind of the solution but as you say the earlier the better. Uh, but um, yeah it's not always possible to involve the market research at early stages. But if you had now the bigger budget, uh, would you I don't know, define the project design somehow differently or you know, invest in some, I don't know, feather parts?

Speaker A: Yeah, so of course we would be glad to have a bigger budget and yeah we would uh, definitely conduct more in depth interviews. So we did some interviews with ah, potential patients and with um, doctors and possible hospitals. But um, since we had a limited budget we only could conduct some interviews and of course we got some really cool information from them. But it would be nice to have like a uh, bigger cohort to ask them just to get also like more statistical significant answers. And um, we mostly focused for now on the German market since we're developing in Germany right now. But it would be really cool to also go into the international markets especially like uh, USA or even the Eastern market, um to see like what is the potential there also for like um, the market access but also regulatory uh, wise and um, maybe we would also like to invest into like um, what, how does pricing of the product um, influence the decisions and the product choice or um, like which market access strategies are there that we could use?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. There are also of course projects that only would focus on pricing. I think we are trying to you know, balance in the best way we could and um, I think you know, with our cooperation and discussions that we had um, you know we were always trying to prioritize, you know, what is important. But were there any further decisions which you made, I don't know before approaching us or during the proposal ah stage that you made in regards research?

Speaker A: Yeah, so like I just mentioned, we had to focus on some groups since we only had a limited budget. So we only could conduct a limited number of interviews of course. So we had to really define our target groups and our priority applications. Um, so we couldn't just ask for everything. But we tried to think what would be the most feasible for us and what we think might be the best for the market and then also added some other options since we didn't want to influence the uh, questions of course. And um, also we had to leave some questions intentionally out of the scope because it was just too broad then. And um, yeah, then we wouldn't have been able to focus that much and wouldn't, I think we wouldn't have gotten that good answers then if we had just like one patient from each group. It's Just a, um, it could be a coincidence what the answer is. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And also what you mentioned, you know, the number of questions that you can ask, the time of respondent, uh, costs, of course, especially with respondents like doctors or insurance companies. Uh, when we say we talk for 40 minutes, we cannot talk with them for two hours. Their expectations are different. They also lose concentration. So yeah, that's always this balance and um, yeah, decisions to take.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And when we move now to the outcomes, um, was there anything particularly surprising in the results, um, that maybe opened your eyes, you were not thinking before uh, anything comes up.

Speaker A: So one really striking thing was that um, especially doctors were critical because we claimed that we have a broad antiviral, um, efficiency. And for us this is like basic knowledge because the mechanism of our uh, ligand is just, it's broad antiviral. And for us it wasn't any part to be concerned about. But we got a lot of feedback that they wanted to have a really tight proof of this broad antiviral efficiency. Um, and um, I think this is also something that we will need to address later on when we go into marketing or even to market access. Because people are critical. And it's new. We found that nothing on the market right now compares to what we want to do. And um, of course the people are then critical, but we think we are really good. So um, I think we can convince them. It's just a matter of how do you explain it. Because you can't just explain a scientific complex mechanism of action, but you have to do it like understandable for everyone. And um, also we found that the prevention market is much more challenging to access than the therapeutic market. Because in a therapeutic market you have like a disease and of course the people want to be cured of the disease. But in the prevention market you first have to show the people that they need the prevention. And um, it's also like harder in clinical studies to have a preventional clinical study because you can't mostly you can't just impact people to show that your ah, agent is working. I mean there are some countries where you can do that, but in Germany it's um, not right now the case. So um, yeah, that's also something we will have to think about if we first go to the prevention or to the therapeutic market. Yeah.

Speaker B: So in the end some of the biggest strength of your solutions, you know, also need some education and convincing uh, for the market because the market is not used to it. But I also must say, uh, for me, like you with the entire medical chemical background, Science background. I think I remember you were also surprised that the patients were not so not knowledgeable on this topic. Sometimes were not really sure what category of prevention or you know, uh, medical solutions they are taking.

Speaker D: Yeah, this was really surprising that a lot of people not. Are not really aware of what they taking or for what, for what reason.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, education is a topic.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker C: And um, were there any learnings from this project now that you think could be transferred to other innovations?

Speaker D: Yeah, so as we have mentioned, so I think education is something. So we have to be open to talk. So we are the scientists and we have to talk to other people. For example business people. Right. Um, this was one learning especially for me that it needs, it needs a village. It needs a village to, to, to develop something like this nasal spray. You need so many different expertises. Um, and early market valuation can save significant time and resources. Because we are discussing with mentors from really different fields also now also after the, after this really huge market analysis, we are discussing it back and forth because of this different angles we have to take into account. And these are lessons that are really transferable to every other. Not only healthcare, but especially healthcare innovation.

Speaker C: And overall, um, in a few words maybe, uh, where you say um, are the, the biggest wins from uh, this market research project now?

Speaker A: So I would say we got greater clarity about our market opportunities and the target audiences and also like which applications, which, which um, patient group prefer, uh, which gave us more confidence in our strategic um, development decisions. And um, it also helped us like the results we used in further grant applications, uh, for stronger evidence to support our funding and also got some more funding with this. So I think it was really valuable to do this market research. Yeah.

Speaker B: And are there any advices that you could give to other innovators? You know, how to use market research, when to use market research?

Speaker A: Yeah. So I would say start earlier than you think. Like uh, you also like mentioned you don't have to start with an agency right in the beginning. Just check yourself the market use uh, Statista or other programs where you can get like good scientifically, um, statistics on the market. And um. Yeah, just start as early as possible because it doesn't make sense to develop something that nobody needs. Like Christine mentioned. Yeah.

Speaker D: I would like to add that it's really important to actively challenge and validate all of your assumptions. And this is something that we are really constantly, I need to repeat we are constantly doing with mentors and we are really in the very lucky space position that we have a lot of supporters and um, mentors in this field and they challenge us all the time, which is also sometimes hard. But it absolutely makes sense because we want to develop something very good.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker D: So it makes sense. And it's also, this is also learning. You have to be open to this and yeah, use decision, um, making tools if possible. Not just as confirmation, but yeah, you need to figure out what is the best solution. Yeah.

Speaker B: And just finalizing. Do you have any further, I don't know, learnings or thoughts that you could share with research institutions on market oriented projects? Anything you would like to add?

Speaker D: Yeah, so we are talking also with a lot of other startups and I think, um, and also researchers and research institutes and it makes sense, sense to really think early about the market. And yeah, I have to repeat this as well. Um, the science is essential, but it has to be something that has a practical use and this should be developed together.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I can also say that you know, what we observed, you know how you work and also, you know, lots of passion that you have given to the project and you know, how you cooperate. That's something that definitely, um, business companies, uh, could learn from institutions like yours and you know, open mind and search for new, uh, ideas and how we can apply them in the real world. So definitely very impressive.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was really great working with you too. We were really impressed by your work. Super.

Speaker B: But I think this was all that we planned to ask you about. So thank you so much for participating in this podcast and thank you so

Speaker D: much for having us. It was really, really a great time with you together and we learned really

Speaker B: a lot and we hope we can see your, uh, product soon, at least on the German market and then in other markets as well.

Speaker D: Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you very much.

Speaker C: Thank you very much. Thank. You.