Build Authority Through Collaborations and Community with Tess Masters

Speaker A: Hi and welcome to the Caffeine Authority Builder Podcast. Today I'm joined by Tess Masters. Tess is an actor, presenter, coach, podcaster and author of three cookbooks with Penguin Random House, including the Blender, Gone and. Through her Skinny 60 health programs, Tess and her team of dietitians have helped thousands of people get health using science based food and lifestyle strategies. Her, uh, recipes and health tips are featured everywhere from the LA Times, the Washington Post to the Today Show. And she's collaborated with brands like KitchenAid, Vitamix and um, Whole Foods Market. She also hosts the podcast it has to Be Me where she interviews trailblazers about taking action on the things that they're dreaming about. Thank you so much for joining us today, Tess.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me.

Speaker A: Best thing about being in online coaching programs and masterminds, I find is having access to different ways of thinking from different parts of the world and different kind of walks of life and different industries. And um, yeah, it's all facilitated by name. Thank you. Zoom. Not sponsoring today's episode, but, uh, yeah, wonderful to see. So, for listening new to your work, what is the 60 day reset and who is it for?

Speaker B: We lead, uh, our Gut Health and Metabolic Reset, um, with a team of dietitians. So it's we, we help men and women and people of all ages, but our primary demographic is women over 40. So women between sort of 45 and 75 is our main demographic. And it's just really about taking care of yourself and putting yourself first again and prioritizing what you want out of life. And we use food as the portal, um, to do that. So it's primarily we focus on gut health and, and metabolic health, like I said, but it's we, we, it's very, very individualized. So we meet each person where you're at and there's a big questionnaire and evaluations at the beginning so that we can figure out how to make something work in your life. It's not just about what your lab work might say, a numbers spreadsheet. It's about what does your day look like, do you have busy kids, Are you caring for elderly relatives? Do you have a full time job? Are you retired, are you active, are you recovering from an injury, what have you tried before, what do you like to eat? I mean, there's just all of those factors play a role in, and what's going to work for you and what's actually going to be sustainable and fun because if you don't enjoy what you're doing, you don't want to Keep doing it.

Speaker A: No, absolutely. Um, you've got to get those reps in and you've got to enjoy doing them in order to keep it up. Uh, I agree. And so is it a 60 day program or is it the focus, the first 60 days?

Speaker B: I mean, it's a live guided program. So while people get, you know, ongoing access, lifetime access to our website and all of the resources, they get the live support, unlimited support from our team of dietitians and from me and the rest of our team for 60 days. And it's quite strategic. So there's a reason why it's 60 days because we're going to go through two hormonal cycles. So because our hormones, our blood sugar, our gut, health and our metabolism are all intricately connected, uh, we need to be monitoring that. And also it's a good amount of time to get to know each other, implement strategies and principles, start to put those strategies into place, figure out what's working, what's not working, tweak things and then turn some new practices, practices, um, into habits. And so that behavioral change aspect of it and gaining the confidence to do it on your own is a big part of it. So, uh, that, that's why it's 60 days.

Speaker A: And I mean, one of the things that I'm fascinated about by your business is it clearly works because your retention rate is over 60% or at least was the last time we spoke.

Speaker B: It's over 75% actually.

Speaker A: Oh my goodness. Oh my.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's really, really high. I think that's for a number of reasons. First of all, it's because it works. Uh, so it was interesting because very early on when we started the program and people kept coming back and people were on the calls going, oh, this is my second time doing it. On my third time doing it, I kept getting emails going, why are all these people coming back? Is it because it doesn't work or. I'm starting to get nervous now. We sort of, uh, preface that in the first call because there's a lot of reasons why people come back. Um, it's for the community. It's because they want access to our team and just have that safety net, uh, to be able to ask questions, have us look at things. Um, people want that support, uh, other people, they might have done it five years ago and now they're in perimenopause or menopause. So their needs have changed. Um, some people, um, you know, they might have had an injury and they want a bit of help to get back on track. There's a lot of different reasons but I think that yeah, the retention rate is, is, is wonderful. So we do have a retention based business model. Knowing that so many people are going to return at some point. I mean we have people that have never left the community, you know, that have been in every cycle since we began and they don't necessarily come to every call. They're not all mean. That's the thing about our program. You don't have to be all in or all out because that's not real life. That whole all or nothing approach doesn't work and it's not sustainable and it's not particularly joyful. So it's all about how do we make something work in real life when you're busy, you're exhausted, you've got to get dinner on the table at six o' clock and then you've got to be, you know, taking the kids to something at 8 o' clock or whatever it might be. Um, and so I think that flexibility is another reason why, um, why people keep returning.

Speaker A: And um, you mentioned you've got a retention based business model. I'm curious about how, how do you measure it? How, what does it mean to have a retention based business model?

Speaker B: Well, I mean it's not that we are not um, advertising to new people and that we don't want to bring new people, but we have a living, breathing website that constantly evolves to take into account that we want to help people continue to evolve on their journey. So how do we measure that? Obviously we have metrics about and people are tagged, you know, in our, in our system of how many cycles that they've done and we have a lot of detailed information about people and what they've done and I think the longevity of it, um, and the consistency, knowing that people know a lot about you if you've done it multiple times. So there's a shorthand that ends up happening where you don't have to keep repeating things, you don't have to start all over again, that kind of thing. So yeah, we're able to grow together and um, I think that's attractive to people where they don't want to have to know, start from scratch or even though we're never really starting from scratch are ah, we, we always take our body of experience with us. But that familiarity um, uh, goes a long way particularly because it is a very personal, um, intimate program in the sense that yes it is primarily a food and lifestyle program. So we're you know, a nutrition based program. But eating is inextricably connected to the rest of our lives. So ultimately, uh, whilst, yes, a lot of people come in to lose weight, and they do lose weight on our program, some people need to gain weight or they just want to regulate their blood pressure and cholesterol or get rid of their menopause symptoms or whatever it might be. It's not always about weight. But as a coach, I'm using food as a portal of discoverability to understand all the choices that we make. So our relationship with food mirrors our relationship to other things. So when we're able to connect those dots and see where food fits into our life and how we're using it, um, we're able to really open up a lot of other avenues for growth. So it ends up being a really empowering tool for people in the rest of their lives. So it sort of travels over. So I think that that's another piece of it because we have two live video calls every week. So we have a dietitian Q A where we cover, you know, the science and the strategies, and people can ask question, um, of the medical practitioners. And then I have open office hours, which tends to be more about what's going on with the rest of things. So it could be anything from how do I get my kid to eat broccoli to my husband's a meat and potatoes guy, and I want to primarily be a pescatarian. How do we sit and enjoy food together? It could be practical things like that, or why do I want to keep eating donuts? I mean, lots of things come up. But ultimately, as we move through the process and everybody starts to really cook with their, uh, you know, with gas in terms of their food and nutrition, they know what's happening, and then they start to get results, results, and they gain confidence and so forth. It becomes more about how do we use the confidence that we've gained in this part of our lives to empower ourselves in other parts. So, you know, people ask for promotions, they start businesses, they let go of things that don't serve them, they start traveling. They, you know, they do things that maybe they weren't feeling confident to do before. So it ends up being, uh, being a reset for a lot of different things.

Speaker A: And I mean, I'm one of the things. This is the authority podcast. And a big part of what we do with our clients and the authority for the program is, is helping them to, as it suggests, build authority. And often that comes through the form of a book or a podcast or an all associated, um, materials that can fall off of that, you built your authority early through bestselling cookbooks. And I know major brand partnerships and media have been a big part of, um, your business story as well. Looking back, which two moves do you think created the biggest compounding effect and why?

Speaker B: Oh, yes, I do think that writing my books with Random House and they did sell a lot of copies and I traveled the world and they were translated into a lot of different languages.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then my brand partnerships and, you know, being the spokesperson the KitchenAid for over five years and traveling the world with, you know, an international brand and then a lot of different brands. You know, I worked with Four Seasons and Western Hotels and Whole Foods and Williams Sonoma and a lot of food brands as well. It was constantly building that, those relationships. And I just think that whilst the online space is so powerful, nothing beats pressing the flesh and actually meeting people face to face and being out there and listening to people and talking to them and hearing what was going on. That was, um. Those two things put together were really big for me. The other thing I'll say is that, you know, relationships beget relationships. So, yeah, in terms of building authority, um, you know, I, I did, uh, have a lot of support through those other relationships from Facebook, um, early on and Google and I spoke at the headquarters and traveled and, you know, was a beta tester for a lot of different things that happen on those platforms. So that helped me to, you know, get the, you know, I don't know what it is now. 1.8 million followers on Facebook or something like that, you know.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, uh, that, that helped as well. So I, I, speaking at things was, was a really big part. Um, but collaborations, collaborations, collaborations. I would, I would say, um, that they, they're, they're so wonderful for not, uh, only building relationships, but helping to expand your, your reach and your network and seeing things from different points of view. I, I don't believe in competition. I only believe in communion. So, um, this, this happened quite a bit when my books were very successful in the blender space and I was working with, you know, a lot of different appliance companies and, and things like that. Uh, you know, there were a lot of other books about the subject that came out and people would ask me to blurb their books and my, you know, publisher or my agent would say, oh, no, no, you can't do that. And I'm like, why, why wouldn't I champion somebody that's also wanting to do something wonderful in this space and elevate the space? So I always did if I was asked. So I think that that would be the other thing is to, you know, there's a cold rule of improvisation in acting. Um, yes. And you don't block any offers. You're open to all possibilities. And so I just stay a yes and person rather than a no but person. So just being open to a lot of different offers and then being discerning, you know, because there's only so many yeses we can give and a yes is always accompanied by a whole lot of no's, you know, and being discerning about what, what those nos and yeses were and are. Uh, um, it continues to, to be really important. But um, yeah, yeah, collaborations, it was really the big thing and, and also knowing what was mine and what was somebody else's, you know, so my books, and then I was offered other books and about other subjects and they just. I didn't feel like it was my story to tell, you know, so also just not diluting your authority and not sort of spreading the net too wide. I think that there's something about being really, really clear about what it is that you offer and continuing to expand your knowledge and um, stay current with what's going on and listening to what people need and being true to, to what your voice is in the space and not feeling like you've got to be all things to all people.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. As you were talking about competition, I was just thinking I was heavily pregnant with my second child, my son. Remember my daughter asking about love and will she have to share? Will I have to divide up my love now where between her and her brother? And I said to her, this is the great thing about love is that uh, it, it just grows. There's no, there's no end to it. There's no like not finite amount of it. It can just continue to grow. And as I said, it kind of blew my own mind. Um, but I kind of feel that way about kind of illusion of competition as well. And um, yeah, why wouldn't you like support other people? Why wouldn't you, you know, be grateful that they're in this space to learn from them? Um, amongst other things, I don't think that. And my next question was going to be about product versus personality based business. And I'm kind of curious about how those things fit together because my temptation, just building on what you said about curiosity and being relevant, but also knowing what is your stuff, kind of like what is your lane to stay in in terms of the principles behind your business, what you're here to do who you had to serve and just sticking to your kind of core, kind of guiding um, life in the distance. I find that having a product driven company, which caffeine is um, products and services, I found it challenging when I find I kind of get shiny object syndrome. When there's something really amazing that I've tested with a client, I know it's going to work for other people. I want to build a product around it and then um, I, then I kind of blow my mind with well they, I know they need it, I know it works. But at the same time by adding another product and buying another service and are we kind of diluting our offer? Is it confusing to people? And I don't think there's a right answer for me. But my, my question was going to be, you're shifting from a personality driven back to a product driven one. What has that solved? What new challenges has it introduced? Is the one I just mentioned one of the challenges that you found with that? Mhm.

Speaker B: Oh gosh, I'm. And, and as you say, there is no right or wrong answer. It's only what's appropriate for you at this time. And yeah, I think that once you make a decision and you commit to it, it's always the right, it's always the right decision because it's what you do and it's going to take you to the next decision. So I don't actually even believe in wrong decisions either. Uh, you just make a decision and you go with it and then you can change your mind if you need to.

Speaker A: But uh,

Speaker B: yes, so in the beginning m my I have several brands, you know, under the flagship of, of Test Masters. You know it started with the Blender Girl website and then I had the Decadent Detox with a business partner. We, we led cleanses and then we, you know, I started Skinny 60 which is our 60 day reset. And so I had multiple health programs and we had self guided programs and we had guided programs and our uh, 14 day cleanse, specifically our guided cleanse. They were incredibly popular and incredibly effective for people. And the only reason that we closed that brand down is because my business partner wanted to retire and be a grandma and we had created it together, you know, otherwise we would still be leading that program because it was wonderful. Then when I uh, skinny 60 was really born out of my own personal experience and what I believed, you know, the majority of people need to learn about nutrition and some very basic things and how to personalize it, you know, and that it was very important to me. M that everybody was under the care of someone with a medical license. So that decision was really born out of listening to what people needed, um, sharing what had worked for me when I went through perimenopause and menopause. Um, and so, um, some of my business decisions are really born out of personal experience and wanting to share and impart that knowledge. Then I think the challenge at the moment is that, of course, when something's wonderful and something works and because we have such a high retention, you know, so a lot of people that did our 14 day cleanse came into Skinny 60. There's a massive crossover because they're like, what else have you got? This is so amazing. The food is so delicious. It's the best food I've ever had. I love the support. It's so amazing, you know, so of course the people that have been in the community for a long time are like, well, could you create something for, uh, really advanced people and maybe we could do a smaller thing just with you where we get a lot more, you know, personal attention from you or whatever. You know, there's a lot of requests like that all the time. So it is challenging because I am a creator, so I'm always creating and I have created a lot of different programs and written books and. And you know, I'm all. I've now got a PODC and you know, a lot of, uh, and then I'm an actor and I'm on set and I'm, you know, doing plays or movies or whatever, voiceovers, a lot of different ways that I express myself. So at the moment I've actually decided not to create any more programs. I'm not saying I never will. But right now, with the way that my life is. Because I'm shooting a movie right now, I'm also just about to go into rehearsals for a play. I'm doing voiceovers. Plus I'm also facilitating the 60 day reset. Plus I'm doing podcasting. There's only so many hours in the day and I can't clone myself. So I think that that's the biggest challenge is I. I can maintain discipline about the shiny object phenomenon, as you put it. Um, right of. Oh, I could do this. This would be great. I know this works. I know I could help people with this. But just because you can doesn't mean you should. Or does it mean that you want to or doesn't mean so. So for me, whenever I'm making business, well, any decisions, I'm a very data driven person. So I just look at the data and it could be tangible data on a spreadsheet in terms of the numbers and the profitability of something. It could be, um, that my time, it could be the resources in the company in terms of the money that it's going to cost to actually execute a vision that I might have. And then I've got to look at the sweat, sweat equity and quality of life and time with my family and that, that work, life balance and all that sort of thing. Because obviously there's only so many things that, that we can physically do in a day, in a week, in a month, in a year now.

Speaker A: It sounds incredible how much you're fitting in already. I mean.

Speaker B: Yes, yes. And so, you know, thankfully I have a team of people and I, I don't have to do everything on my own. But you know, I think that is part of running a business is to have people around you that are going, put your hand on the enough, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. Button. Yeah.

Speaker B: And on the top of the glass. Because sometimes my, you know, I'm a visionary, I'm a manifesting generator. Like that's just my personality. You know, I'm always looking at the next frontier, the next thing, the next thing. I think that age is my best friend now. I've waited my whole life to be old, if you know what I mean in the sense of, um, you know what I mean in the sense of I don't feel the need to be a chaser like I did when I was in my 20s and 30s. And I'm no less ambitious, I'm no less thirsty and curious and, and excited about life. In fact, I would even argue even more so now. But, um, uh, I've become more interested in sense of self rather than Persona construction. And I think that when you're talking about the personality driven brand versus the product driven brand, when I can take myself out of it and my ego out of it. Oh well, it would be great to have that other thing. Actually, the thing that we've got absolutely works and thousands and thousands and thousands of people have done it successfully and gotten amazing results and, and they keep coming back. So over here we've just got this lovely, beautiful community that keeps growing and I don't need to add another product. In fact, it just confuses and dilutes the potential of what we already offer. So at the moment, that would be my response. But ask me two years from now and I might say something else. And I reserve the right to change my mind next week if I want to. But at the moment I'M consistently focusing on that work life balance when we already have a very successful company. So it is that thing of when is it enough? Yeah, is a question that I constantly ask myself now in a way that I didn't ten years ago.

Speaker A: Um, I, and I believe you also worked with Sarah Lucille for a while in a program um, that we were both part of. Um, she introduced me when she was working in my business to the concept. Well she, she's big into energetic and I had not previously understood the concept of energy the way she was describing it. And I was thinking, oh, sounds a bit woo, I don't know, I don't know. And then it started really resonating and I realized, I started noticing what thing gave me energy, what things sapped my energy. Understanding that there is a finite amount of energy in a day and then I've got some like reserve fuel for when it's needed and um, great. But thinking about how I spend my energy in the way that I would think about how I would spend £10 of pocket money is something that now guides my decision making process. And I think part of that is, you know, having less energy as I get older. Perimenopause, menopause and two children, Very, very active and you know, and life and everything el that is contained within it. Um, and I think it's such a gift to realize you can do less, um, and that you shouldn't perhaps do less or think about where you're spending your time and energy. Um, that's been phenomenal learning for me over the past five years. Um, and it's so interesting looking back, thinking, well, what decisions would I not have taken if I'd understood this concept of energy earlier? Like the concept of some things feed it some things, drain it some things. Which sounds so obvious when you say it out loud, but when you start talking like coming out of a situation and then thinking why do I feel so tired? Like what, what is that? Like? Oh, that just, that wasn't for me because it wasn't. I've physically done anything or even mentally done anything, but it's drained me. And so for me as you were talking I was thinking, well how would I am. And you think part of it is around that idea of does it feel like it's going to feed or detract? And not just for me but for um, my audience, um, and the people we would work with within it. Um, so.

Speaker B: And energy is infectious. So if you really want to be there and you're really present with what you're Doing you really, it gives you joy that has a flow on effect to the people that you're working with and they pick up on that. And, and I think that, um, that's a, that's a big driver for me as well, you know, and also m honoring what kind of a person you are. So once I embraced that, I actually was an introvert that presented as an extrovert. So I don't recharge from other people. I recharge by myself. So I've got to do a personal retreat every quarter where I just turn everything off and I go off by myself and I recharge. And I love being social. I absolutely derive such joy from working with my clients and you know, particularly working one on one with people and having these amazing conversations and really getting to the nitty gritty and the juice of something. I genuinely love it. But in order to be clean and show up as the best version of me, I cannot spread myself too thin. I cannot, cannot, cannot. And that's to your point, something that I learned later in life, you know, I, I said yes to a lot more things, you know, than I do now. Um, and, and you know, it's interesting. I, I used to think that saying no made me a bad person, made me ungenerous. Well, if I can, I should.

Speaker A: If I've got, if I've got the

Speaker B: time and resources, then I've got to do it. Or even if I don't have the time and resources, I gotta do it, you know. And I remember my friend Kada said to me, you know, a compassionate no is actually an act of love for yourself and the other person. Because if you can't give a full throated yes, that person deserves to be free to get the yes from somebody who actually really wants to give it to them. And so that changed for me. Yeah, yeah, that was about God. She said that to me about 15 years ago in, in the height of, you know, just everybody clawing at me and uh, and just having the world at my feet in terms of opportunities and what was happening in my life. It was amazing. But I couldn't do it all. I just physically couldn't, even though I may have wanted to. And I felt really, really bad that I couldn't say yes to everybody, but I shouldn't say yes to everybody. And it really shifted some things for me and I've never forgotten it. And I, I approach everything differently because of that conversation. So it's incredible when you were talking about, you know, Sarah, Lucille saying that too bad energy yeah, um, I have had many experiences like that where, you know, friends, colleagues, mentors, people I don't even know on social media or in a movie or something, you know, they say something, you just hear it in the right place at the right time and it just drops in and you make it your own and you embody it and it's something that you really run with and it, it can really shift a lot.

Speaker A: It's so funny. There are things that you can have heard and um, even repeated back for years and then comes a day where you actually feel it. And to me m. There's such different

Speaker B: things, embodied understanding of things. I mean when you get to that place, there is no going back because you feel it, you're breathing it, you can't deny it. So yeah, um, I absolutely feel what you're saying.

Speaker A: So if you were starting from zero authority today, how would you rebuild in the first 90 days? I'm just conscious that some of the factors that you mentioned were very much of moment. So you um, you know, been a beta tester for some of those social media platforms earlier in the um, incarnation and um, the access to an audience that that's given you over the years. But like if you were you, you mentioned the podcast, is that something that you would focus on now, sooner rather than later? Would you still write a book?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like what would you do?

Speaker B: Yes. So I mean, I think, look, the publishing space in terms of books has changed dramatically since I published my first book in 2014. Like I, I do think that uh, that it's got to be a multi prong approach with, with, in terms of building authority. So if I was starting from scratch right now and was going to build something around something I was really passionate about, I would build a very simple website. So some, you know, that, that where I would control the, you know, page one of Google in terms of stitching up the social media handles and the website and I would just do all the nuts and bolts sort of things. So I would control what people were going to learn about me if they looked up what I was doing. So I would do that and I would start telling my story. So whether it's blog posts, social media posts, booking myself on podcasts as a guest, starting a podcast and just telling my story. It could be a solo podcast. You might not even um, interview people necessarily. And then you could also interview people if you wanted to, people that were telling similar stories or you know, had complimentary businesses or you know, so that you were becoming a trusted curator of content, which is what you're doing with this podcast and what I do with my podcast.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: So I think that not only, uh, authority is not only about what you have to offer, it's about what your network has to offer. And I think that going back to what we were talking about before, in terms of not worrying about competition, if somebody else is doing something similar, it doesn't mean that there's not space for, for everybody and nobody is exactly you. And I think that, that I would be joining communities where, where I was going to find the people that were interested in what I was doing very similarly to what I did all those years ago. I think that human behavior and the way that our hearts map are the same no matter what era we're in as human beings. So it's all about connection. It's all about authenticity. It's all about being true to who you are. I mean, we could say all of that stuff, but on a practical level, I do think that there's something, um, to be said and, and something very beautiful about celebrating others. So I'm all about, um, bringing similar people in that might do something very similar to me, you know, because it's all about, um, a rising tide lifts all boats. So just being part of the conversation in a way that.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And I think that that's something that I see a lot in social media where people will be commenting on other people's posts because that's what they're told to do, because it is a strategy to gain followers. But they're all about, look at me, look at me, look at me. And wanting to take people away from somebody else's conversation instead of adding value to it and celebrating that person and their conversation. I think that that's a, a, uh, uh, very, um, effective way to, to infiltrate a community, become part of a community, but also become known as someone that adds value to any space that they're in and any conversation that they're in. And I think that there's a classy way to do that.

Speaker A: Yep, absolutely. Energy given, not an energy flapper. And also, you just so articulately stated what I was trying to say about the nature of competition and how you should consider it. It's so true. Rising tideless or boats is exactly the, um, aphorism that sums up how I feel about competition in inverted commas and celebrating others. It's choose your people wisely. But celebrating others, even your competition, can be a marketing strategy, as you just said. Like it normally.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And, and it, it can be a lot of different things. You know what I mean? There's so many opportunities that, that I've had, um, because people found me somewhere else just talking to somebody, you know, Talking to somebody.

Speaker A: Um, yeah.

Speaker B: I also think that I'm, I'm a very big believer in don't ask, don't get. So, you know, there's a lot of people, when they start out, think, oh, people don't want to hear what I have to say. But often the best teacher for a third grader is a fourth grader. So you only have to be one step ahead of somebody else to share what you've learned and bring them along. And so this, this myth that we've got to be, you know, Oprah or Katie Couric or. I'm, uh, trying to think of someone in the UK that your listeners would relate to, but, you know, somebody really huge in the world in order to be of value and to use our voices and it's just simply not true. And none of those people started out that way either. They all started from scratch. So I, I'm a big believer in volunteering too, and immersing myself in community efforts and um, donating my time to causes I believe in. And, and all of that stuff, I think plays a huge role in just that the energy that is exchanged between humans, like we often, um, get caught up in the monetary currency only, you know, and there's a lot of currencies that are exchanged between humans that have value. So I think that, um, reaching out to people, asking, how can I become involved? You know, and actually just being the squeaky wheel and not in an annoying way, you can do it in a classy way, but it actually works to keep you front of mind, you know, and to constantly just be asking, what can I do? How can I be involved? Uh, it really, really works. And um, showing up with humility and the yes and attitude is, is a huge part of it. So if I was going to start today, I would do all of those things.

Speaker A: Ah, you mentioned earlier about the importance, especially early on in your career. And I know it's still important to you, but things look different in a post Covid world. Um, the importance of in person events. Do you think they would feature if you were starting again?

Speaker B: Oh, well, yes, yes, I would be wanting to do that whenever and wherever I could. Now obviously, the thing about in person events, obviously you're touching a much smaller amount of people unless you're speaking to a stadium of 5,000 people, which I've also done as well. But there's something about Meeting just those handful of people that are going to then go and help you build your army, so to speak, right? Your army of people that are going to be speaking about you, thinking about you, referring you or just giving you joy and you giving them joy or whatever it is, right? You're just getting to do what you do. So yes, I mean I um, I'm still, still constantly doing things like that and I really, really love it now. Some people don't enjoy that, you know, so there is something safe about being on a screen in the privacy of your own office or home, having a bit of distance. Uh, some people actually prefer that now. So I do think to, to expand on what I was saying before about being true to who you are and the way that you like to do things. So, you know, you can go and we talk about being in masterminds and business groups and you know, one of the biggest mistakes that I made in my business and one of my readers pulled me up on this and again, this is something I've never forgotten as well. I was in this group and they were talking about, oh, you should email this way or that way. And so I thought, oh, well, it didn't feel right, failed to be a key to me. But I did it anyway because this person was, you know, making millions of dollars and they knew what they were doing and they were an expert in this and that. And I didn't follow my gut. And every, uh, time I don't listen to my gut, I screw things up. So I sent this, this email that I thought was a bit icky and um, this woman writes back to me and she goes, tess in capital letters. I do not believe that you wrote this email. This sounds like something you got in some course because I run a business as well and I gotta tell you, it's just not you. And I call bullshit on this email, you know, and it was pretty harsh, but she was right and I got it, burst into tears, I'll be totally honest. And then I went and uh, personal responsibility is a huge mandate of mine, you know. So I just went, you're right. So I wrote back and I went, yeah, you're right. I said that was so, so hard to read, but so on point. And I think I'm going to be grateful for you for many years to come. Thank you so much for having the balls and the generosity to care enough about me and my brand to, to tell me the truth and, and give me that feedback. And I have, ah, never sent one of those emails again. And it wasn't even that bad, by the way. But, you know, I'm acting like it was, uh, some dishonest charlatan thing, but it just was my voice and my way, and, you know, I get it. And so that's another thing I would say in terms of starting something. If it doesn't feel right, it's not right. And just because somebody else built their brand that way and that was their path, that was their path only. And, yes, there's some general templates, and I'm happy to share anything that's happened to me and anything that worked for me in the hopes that it might help somebody else. Because, yeah, other people, you know, they. They hung their shiny lanterns and helped lead the way for me, and I always want to be doing that for other people. Yeah, just because it worked for me doesn't mean it's right for you. So, again, uh, you know, I'm constantly going, ooh. Oh, that doesn't feel right. Okay, why doesn't that feel right? Hang on a second. Is that fear speaking, or is that actually my intuition? And sometimes I've got to take some time to actually differentiate between the two, because sometimes it is just fear.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: And sometimes it really isn't. Right.

Speaker A: I, like, I relate so hard to that. That conversation with yourself about fear or something feeling icky or off. Like, I, uh. Those are the two things that I find the hardest to differentiate between. And I. And I'm so grateful that I can kind of tune into my intuition and. And feel it. But then I'm like, I don't know if I should push through, because everything I want is probably on the other side of fear or whether it's just, you know, warning. Sorry. To not do something, to stop doing something. I haven't found a way to really differentiate between those, apart from, um, like you say, sitting with it, uh, waiting and seeing. Kind of what I call it my percolation time. Like, sometimes I just need to wait for the kind of coffee to drip through the V60 filter and then see what I'm left with. And I can't cheat. I can't fast forward that time, process

Speaker B: that percolation time, and accept to give an answer. Uh, yeah, we don't. We don't want to fast forward, because if we're in the car going, you know, as fast as the car will go, we can't see the scenery. It's actually all a blur anyway.

Speaker A: Yeah. So,

Speaker B: uh, if I don't know what to do, I do nothing.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: I just sit on my hands and do nothing. And I wait. I just wait. And the answer always presents itself. My intuition kicks in and always shows me the way if I'm listening. So uh, sometimes that that means I gotta wait a day, I gotta wait a week, sometimes a month. I mean there's sort of no time limit on it unless I have a deadline about something. But I gotta say if it's not an immediate full bodied yes, then it's probably a no. Mhm is my yardstick. But and, and I think that the, the more you become in tune with yourself and the more you trust yourself and know yourself, you do start to really be able to differentiate where those different things start to activate in your body. That's why. Yeah, embodiment work has become such a game changer for me and somatic practices have been so huge. It's such a huge part of my self care because I recognize where fear uh, manifests and, and, and takes root in my body. Now that's different for everybody, you know, but once you recognize where that is it becomes easier um, to make those choices. But you know, when it's a full bodied yes, that's why I call my podcast it has to be Me. You know, because I literally thought, well when I make any decision in life, small, big or enormous or life changing, it's always come down to oh, uh, it has to be me. I'm doing it, I have to do it, I have to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And if I don't have to then more often than not it's an, it's a no. But yeah, every once in a while like I say it, it is a fear based thing where I'm just worried that I won't be able to meet the moment. And time usually corrects that because um, if it really isn't it has to be me, then my intuition's going to, going to push me towards it.

Speaker A: So yes, yes, regardless of everything there. Um, and I'm conscious of time and I know you've got commitment after this, but I just wanted to ask a couple of more practical questions around. I know you said when we've been talking previously that buyers of your um, your course, your program either join immediately or after about 12 months. What do you find you just mentioned in the key email and I'm wondering, suspecting email marketing forms are part of this, but what are the most effective touch points that you find during that longer window for those people who join around the 12 month mark?

Speaker B: Yeah, look, this is something that we're constantly evaluating. I'm not sure. If I will ever have a concrete answer for this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But really what we've noticed that, yes, for people that don't. Because, look, such a huge percentage of people join our program because they know somebody else who's done it. That's where the vast majority of people come from. Because they've got a sister, a colleague, a friend, a neighbor, or their doctor or somebody they trust has done it, or, you know, most of our clients come from referrals. So the know like and trust factor is already high to begin with. And then, you know, we have a webinar funnel where I'll do a webinar and then people will, will, will buy straight away on the webinar and then they might through the email sequence for sweet sequence. So anybody that doesn't, um, join the program when we first introduce it to them, let's say they're cold people who, um, have not been on our list and don't know anything about me or our community or anything like that. Um, the thing that really converts people is because. Because here's the thing, a lot of women, and this makes complete sense because we're just bombarded with diet culture, you know, and now with the, with the GLP1s and GLP2s and all of that medication that the only way to lose weight and be skinny and sexy is to diet, restrict, control, or go on medic. I think that so many women are burned because they've tried so many things and it hasn't worked. And so it makes sense that you've got a healthy dose of skepticism.

Speaker A: Oh.

Speaker B: And yeah. So, uh, we've. We call it in our community the unicorn myth, where I get this email at least five times a week from somebody that will say, no, no, you don't understand, Tess. I've just got one of those bodies that just doesn't respond. And there's a lot of people that believe that. So a lot of the, um, the emails that we send are about busting that unicorn myth. You know that no, unicorns only exist in fairy tales.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Nobody's actually a unicorn. When you nourish your body and understand how to eat strategically for your body, at this phase of life, you absolutely have a body that can respond. We just need to know what the pieces and what the strategies that are going to work for you are. And that's what my dietitians do. Um, the other thing is a lot of women, as you know, we're nurturers as women, and so we, we get in the habit of putting ourselves last and feeling guilty about self care. And we confuse being, uh, being a person of self care with being selfish. And actually they're very, very different things.

Speaker A: Things.

Speaker B: And so taking care of yourself is an act of love for yourself and everybody else in your life because then you can actually give more and show up as your whole self and actually ignite your full power. And I think that a lot of us are hiding because, you know, we get all get taught as children, no matter what kind of family we're from, that the world will only love and accept us one way. We get conditioned and then we get out in the world and we start meeting other kinds of people and we realize, oh, well, I don't know if that's true. But then you go back to, well, it has to be true because that's what I've been brought up to believe. So a lot of, a lot of the things are about that. And I also think that a big part of what we do over the course of a year too, is helping to communicate that our program is not just a weight loss program, even though a lot of people lose weight. It's, um, it's about really getting to the source of, of believing that you deserve the very best and that eating well, exercising, sleeping, having great relationships in your life, doing something that really feeds you and gives you joy, and celebrating your life and the lives of others actually matters. And so that's a lot of what we talk about in our community is just how food dovetails into the rest of our lives. And so, um, a lot of stories, I think, stories, um, we all love a good story, don't we? We love books and movies, of course, music and poetry and, and the packing

Speaker A: that shows up again and again.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're, we're very fortunate that we, um, have a lot of testimonials, you know, a lot of video testimonials, and a lot of, A lot of people want to share their stories, which is so wonderful. Um, so we do have a lot of stories to share, but I think that it's about the reason why we've acknowledged that people that don't join straight away might take up to a year to trust us. And when you've been burned a million times, trust is earned. So I never say in an email, trust me. Oh, this will work for you. Trust me. Because trust is earned. And we will earn your trust when you start getting results.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Really? Um, I think that it takes time for, for people to be on our list, be in our community, and if they don't have my books, they haven't seen me at something that they don't follow us on social media or they don't know someone that's done the program, that's going to take some time, you know, unless the pain is bad enough and they're willing to try anything, you know, and they're gonna join or something that I've said on the webinar or in an email just really resonate. It's the right time for them. I really believe that we, we come to things at the right time. So when someone's ready to join our community, they will join, you know. Yeah. And so, and, and I have to say that there's a lot of people on our email list and in the community, and they may never join Skinny60. They may never join the 60 day reset. But if they make a healthy recipe and they eat more vegetables because they're making the recipes from the Blender Girl books, go website or they feel better about their day today because of some email I wrote about dancing in my underwear, which is what I sent out this week. You know, I mean, who cares? You know? So I think that for me, it's not just about getting people into our program. And I think that that's always something that I remember when I'm sending any email, um, or doing any marketing that if, if somebody gets one thing that's going to take them into the next part of their journey, then I've done my.

Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And, and staying true to why I got into this in the first place.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Which is I was simply sharing my journey with food. I wanted, I, I wanted to help other people get healthy and feel amazing like I do. You know, when you were talking about not having energy and, you know, women that have brain fog and not feeling good about themselves, I mean, uh, I feel the best I've ever felt in my entire life, you know, and I'm 53 and I, I've got more energy than when I was 30, you know, and I want to help other women not have brain fog during menopause and not have hot flashes and sleep through the night. And it's a myth that we cannot sleep through the night even at 75. You know, we've got women in our community of every age that are sleeping through the night for the first time in their life. Over 75% of women are constipated, and all of a sudden they're going to the bathroom two or three times a day. I mean, all these things that we think can't happen actually can. We've just got to figure out the pieces of the puzzle. Like I think that's another thing we always say to people in our, in uh, our, in our community is it's not a problem, it's a puzzle. And puzzles can be solved and so can problems, whatever you choose to, to say. But I like puzzle because a puzzle is something where there's a, there's pieces and the pieces can go together in a lot of different ways. You know. So I think that um, you know, I actually really, really enjoy when the light goes on in any way, you know, whether somebody joins our program or not. Like I've got, I don't have a no um, reply on our, you know, emails. So we, people can respond. They can hit reply and respond, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's interesting, it's interesting the things that you get back and it's actually uh, really rewarding, you know, regardless of what happens. So I, I will say that I think that that's a really important part of running any business is just continuing to remember into it in the first place.

Speaker A: Yes, yes, absolutely. And as you were talking through that just final question before we wrap up. Um, I have a tendency to over teach and it's not for me, it's not service to my client. But I'm just curious like in addition to, you know, as you were talking to the themes that you recognize in your community that be just what you uh, focus on in terms of the content, in terms of your email marketing, in terms of drawing new people towards you, how, how do you decide what to give away publicly versus what's in the program or even what stays out of the program? Because that kind of brings us back to, you know, the creating of many products. Then what is your kind of North Star in terms of what you're focusing on? But what, what, what are your thoughts around over teaching? What are any nuggets of wisdom that you can share with us?

Speaker B: Uh, gosh, I mean, oh, we still working on that. Oh, I uh, mean this is something that I have struggled with my entire career. Yeah, I, I, gosh, I still don't have it exactly right. But my, if you had have seen my webinar, uh, five, six years ago. I just think everybody freaked out because I just gave them so much information and just overwhelmed everybody with too much stuff because I just want everybody to have this important information about, about gut health and hormones and blood sugar and all the things that I've got in my brain. And our dietitians teach people I want every woman on planet Earth to have this stuff because there's so many people struggling unnecessarily. So I constantly was overwhelming people with too much information and I was taking for granted what I knew and that everybody knew that. So I needed to give them the really high level stuff. And actually for somebody that's just starting, it's just freaks them out. They get so um, overwhelmed and then they feel inadequate. They feel like they should know things. They don't understand what I'm talking about. It's just too much. So keeping it so, so, so simple and that uh, just giving people the next three steps.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker B: Was a huge shift for me.

Speaker A: That's a, ah, really good point, A really good measure because whoever you're speaking to, you can always envision what the next three steps are. You know, whether they are ah, well educated about this already, whether they are already in your program, whether they are ah, a potential client or they've got no clue whatsoever. Um, and you always vaguely, roughly, rather know who you're speaking to at any given moment. So that's a really smart point. Um, and one for definitely for me to bear in mind M for my webinars too because I definitely over teach the number of emails I get afterwards which say oh, that was so good Charlotte. But it made me realize how early stage I am and how I'm not ready to do this. But isn't it like great if it's not for you and you don't want to come in and whatever else, that's fine. But you're never too early for that. It's just the way I told you that. I know it's about over teaching. I know it's about too much detail and well it's funny that you say

Speaker B: that because Lauren on my team, she's very, very smart. Um, she said to me because I, I early on I kept getting these emails. Oh look, I still get them sometimes if you've given me a lot to think about. And she said if they've got a lot to think about, we're not doing it right.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Those are the emails I get.

Speaker B: Right. Seriously. And, and I can, I can so relate to you. So this is the other part of running a business is we're constantly tweaking it'.

Speaker A: Done.

Speaker B: And that's, that's, that's the rub for a lot of people. But actually that's where the opportunity is. Oh, I love to constantly be listening, constantly be learning, tweaking. I love that it's never done you know, so when you can embrace that part of it and it can be absolutely exhausting and, oh, my God, why can't I just get this right? What's going on? You know, but the landscape's constantly changing as you are changing.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Yep, it's that thing of. And I say this to clients all the time, you know, on our coaching calls, you know, instead of, oh, I have to do this. I know I have to. I said, what about. What about just shifting it to. I get to. And then it just completely shifts the energy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: There's no obligation, there's no concrete way of that. It has to be done. It's just, ooh, I get to. And how do I want to do that? And I get to make new discoveries. And, you know, to your point earlier about just being curious and thirsty all the time about what's actually going on, you know, and. Yeah, but, oh, gosh, it's so funny that you're asking that question because that is my number one challenge as a coach and as a marketer. I mean, a hundred percent.

Speaker A: Um, well, look past. It's really late for you. I so appreciate you, um, coming on to speak to me for so long at this time. But who should come and find you and, and where should they find you? And of course, we'll put any links, um, you mentioned into the show notes.

Speaker B: Oh, thank you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So if you want to learn about the 60 day research, go to skinny60.com reset and the blendergirl.com has tons of delicious recipes. If you just want to eat more plants and, and eat some delicious food. And if you want to listen to our podcast and get inspiration like, like yours, um, you can go to. It has to be me.com.

Speaker A: thank you so much, Tess. It's been a great conversation. Thank you.

Speaker B: It was lovely talking to you.