AA263 - "Nothing" Is The Most Expensive Word In Your Career

1 - > So picture this. 2 - > Your boss leans in and asks, what need 3 - > from me? And you go, nope, I'm all good. 4 - > We're all set.

And congratulations, you 5 - > just turned down free money. And that 6 - > I got this little reflex. 7 - > It's most expensive sentence that will 8 - > say your career. And most us [UH] we just 9 - > say multiple times week without blinking.

10 - > if nobody ever told you that replying 11 - > that question with I got this comes with 12 - > an expensive price tag, then today is your day. 13 - > So you're telling me Brian, your boss is 14 - > standing there with a blank signed check 15 - > hand over and asking how much. And your 16 - > answer is nah, I'm good that's I'm saying. 17 - > And the part I learned hard way is 18 - > that check doesn't wait around.

So pass 19 - > on at once and your boss signs it over 20 - > to the next person who happens be next 21 - > person that asks pass few times. And 22 - > now your boss stops writing checks altogether. 23 - > Oh boy. 24 - > So welcome back annual.

And if this 25 - > is your first time, welcome. I'm host 26 - > product manager Brian Orlando and this my -host 27 - > Enterprise business agility leader and 28 - > the baron of the blockers himself, 29 - > Mr. Obattell. can subscribe.

So that's right. Yes, 30 - > definitely. Like subscribe. 31 - > if you're the person who hears what you 32 - > need for me and instantly says no, 33 - > nothing.

I'm good. I know your pain. OK, 34 - > I did that years. I still catch myself 35 - > doing that is a personal feeling.

36 - > That's why we're having this podcast. 37 - > So it took me long time understand that 38 - > it's not humility or strength. It's a, 39 - > it's habit that picked up working 40 - > places that taught me that asking for anything was 41 - > dangerous. Okay, so maybe you've had 42 - > boss that use your needs against you.

43 - > Maybe you grew up the 70s 80s were 44 - > figured out was the culture day, mantra 45 - > day Maybe nobody ever sat down and 46 - > helped you unlearn bad habits. Doesn't 47 - > really matter how got here [UH] You're 48 - > here. You're here now. And we're to 49 - > argue about today because that's what we do 50 - > so if nothing is expensive, Let's start with why.

51 - > That's we're doing. 52 - > Let me tell question. We're starting little I'm 53 - > going be proud us. 54 - > little Simon Sinek.

55 - > Why? Let's start with why your brain 56 - > defaults to nothing. 57 - > I'm good. Okay.

58 - > Somewhere in your career you internalized a lie 59 - > that a good employee figures out alone 60 - > that a, a strong employee asking for help. strong 61 - > employee is the same as admitting that 62 - > you cannot hack it. 63 - > That lie is masqueraded as professionalism. 64 - > Professionalism.

Oh, that's that's it's 65 - > called. That's it's actually called. 66 - > It's a slow leak in the in back tire 67 - > where got nail but like refuse to fix 68 - > it. So like you just keep losing pressure 69 - > every other day and then one day it all 70 - > catches up you And you're stuck on the 71 - > side the road.

72 - > That's, that's what this is. That's what this is. 73 - > Yeah. So [UH] listen Steelman right away 74 - > this podcast.

75 - > Steelman, some orgs punish the ask [UH] 76 - > I've been in those works. 77 - > I have to. And I think recognize if 78 - > you're in one those works. If you are 79 - > and you recognize that it's probably 80 - > too early for this podcast.

But hey, 81 - > guys, keep your resume updated because never the 82 - > right place for you to be. 83 - > It's never too early for keep your resume 84 - > updated. You should keep updated often, 85 - > often and always, always and often. 86 - > but You know, good one that want throw 87 - > here is the cynic point of top performers.

Figure out without 88 - > bothering. They top performers figure 89 - > out you only were top performer, you 90 - > would just coast through water like 91 - > Michael Phelps. No help needed if were 92 - > top performer [UM] And if you're an 93 - > organization that rewards heroes, 94 - > you're more likely to want to do this 95 - > because that's how get ahead in such 96 - > places. Right feeds on itself.

97 - > funny thing about those heroes is you 98 - > never are exposed to the entire true 99 - > story. You know, the true story like just 100 - > little [UH] just little alone for my 101 - > parents. And they just, know, you know, million 102 - > dollars whatever. 103 - > That's right.

Yes. 104 - > Even Jeff Bezos know hundreds thousands 105 - > dollars from his like his dad was 106 - > dentist something like that. like lending him like 107 - > 300000 dollars start. the, you know, like 90s.

So like hundred 108 - > thousand dollars 90s was like a, a bajillion doggie 109 - > coins or whatever. 110 - > Yeah. what are good steelman points [UH] 111 - > we have that like aren't helpful aren't helpful even 112 - > if you do get ahead, you're really not 113 - > building your true skill sets So maybe 114 - > you've got manager rewards you. Right.

115 - > And then along in the same work, maybe 116 - > along comes another manager who doesn't 117 - > maybe even punishes for, you know, 118 - > wanting go alone and maybe failing or 119 - > just wanting to take credit. Perceived 120 - > credit from others. 121 - > Right That's never good thing. Right?

122 - > You say you're a team player and yet 123 - > you kind of your behavior shows something different. 124 - > So yeah, when you have these managers 125 - > [UH] you watch out. 126 - > The the practitioner rings true for me is 127 - > [UH] well Brian, you're just, you're 128 - > just salty. just one boss.

That's not a, that's not 129 - > statistical representation of all corporate American all 130 - > workplaces. That was just one place and 131 - > one time, you know [UH] which wasn't 132 - > one place one time because I'm like, 133 - > well, what about this? What about 134 - > this? about this?

135 - > know, like, yeah, just one place there. just one place. It's 136 - > always ever one place one time, one 137 - > place at time And so because never learn 138 - > from that you think, oh, know, it's 139 - > better other side. 140 - > go someplace else.

141 - > They're known for their culture, so 142 - > can't be the same. 143 - > Right? be different. 144 - > then before you know it, get slapped around the face 145 - > again.

146 - > That field [UH] I mean that's the only 147 - > place be. The that field called statistics. And we 148 - > just throw out all outliers until get 149 - > numbers we want. 150 - > That's what learned 'm a data scientist 151 - > now.

I do math. 152 - > Awesome We don't talk about data scientists go 153 - > going away. Every nobody's Internet 154 - > talking about that. 155 - > It's true.

156 - > Anyway, thanks for coming tangent the 157 - > Like figure alone ridiculous. know 158 - > that like that's how good people drown 159 - > quietly. Yeah. Yeah.

160 - > Yeah. mean precise ask actually signals 161 - > ownership because the flip side that, 162 - > we can talk about, know there's another 163 - > place where we talk about this, but 164 - > right now, if you don't, if don't ask, 165 - > then the perception is from your leadership or management is you 166 - > aligned with them well or you don't 167 - > communicate well. 168 - > That would be Well, yeah, exactly. 169 - > Or it's repeat message from you.

170 - > No, I'm good. No, I'm good. It's like 171 - > in between those messages, they see that you're 172 - > flailing. Right?

And yet you keep saying 173 - > you're good. That's got count against 174 - > you your reviews or whatever else. 175 - > Right? 176 - > Yeah, yeah, yeah.

177 - > Flailing, in silence that could easily be 178 - > perceived as failure. mean, would 179 - > failure. Yeah, yeah, I could be line that 180 - > one And then to the bad bosses that that 181 - > punish, you know, quote neediness. You 182 - > know that that one's, mean, but but 183 - > like if they're tracking data and you're not and 184 - > you're one asking going used against 185 - > you.

Like the data used against you. So 186 - > like the other way you should be tracking it before 187 - > they track it. that comes clunky, but 188 - > don't have a better suggestion than that. You got 189 - > someone using data weaponizing against 190 - > you and work for them come on.

The only thing 191 - > can say is few seconds ago we said 192 - > what the remedy was [UH] Yeah, yeah. 193 - > Keep your resume updated. 194 - > Keep their resume updated. right.

So 195 - > there are some takeaways here Takeaway The away 196 - > starts with stop hiding your blockers 197 - > to look competent and start naming them to look in 198 - > control. Oh boy, if I had nickel for 199 - > every time that I worked with someone 200 - > that was hiding the blockers or doing 201 - > the song and dance around like when big 202 - > meeting doing the song dance around 203 - > blockers like oh well we didn't quite 204 - > deliver this, but know, we, we learned 205 - > lot.

We did whatever is like yeah, but 206 - > still got blockers. 207 - > You know, worst of those [UH] variations is when 208 - > someone, if it's a program or something, they'll 209 - > just say we did our part. The problem is 210 - > we didn't get what we wanted this other[UH] Listen, 211 - > customers don't hear about that. They 212 - > don't care how many teams you have or 213 - > what handoffs you have.

Be far better 214 - > to own it and say leave this with us. 215 - > I'll get back you. 216 - > right. And that's perceived message 217 - > that you're owning and least for time 218 - > being, even if it's temporary.

So yeah, 219 - > definitely. What block block am I 220 - > hiding right now? 221 - > Great question to introspect with you 222 - > for you know for yourself. 223 - > Yeah, can't tell you.

I think about 224 - > early my career like lead. So you got 225 - > like delegated some where like was team management 226 - > responsibilities from manager that 227 - > you would take and would run with. 228 - > Right. And one them was the hiring.

Like 229 - > did all hiring for the team. But but 230 - > the more important one was crossteam 231 - > coordination because that stuff was like 232 - > I mean it was a whole job in and of 233 - > itself crossteam coordination. that 234 - > was exactly you just said is I would have 235 - > to own a problem and go walk from desk 236 - > desk desk. To make sure got resolved 237 - > and nobody dropped it and didn't stall 238 - > out.

And know, mean, to truly own the problem 239 - > that wasn't necessarily all yours. 240 - > Right? No, I would say very little mine. 241 - > So customer perspective, that builds trust between 242 - > them you.

Right? 243 - > That's the, that's the the oil. guess 244 - > that trust is the oil that you know 245 - > loops machine. Yeah.

246 - > Yeah. So I have have two things here 247 - > which is what what block are hiding now 248 - > And does my boss actually punish? 249 - > Asks those the things have to. 250 - > Those the introspective kind questions to come 251 - > out section.

So in your next one, you 252 - > can ask What's something that you, 253 - > you, bosses, you, the employee talking 254 - > about. What's something that you wish that I had come 255 - > you with sooner? You also had another one from boss's 256 - > perspective that we talked about earlier 257 - > that would fit in here too. 258 - > So from from section one take, my real 259 - > takeaway to remember that a sharp ask is 260 - > flex.

It's not confession. 261 - > Yeah. one that thinking about from 262 - > the, the, the boss's point view is train 263 - > yourself. You, the employee, train yourself to when 264 - > they ask you, know, you need?

Train yourself to hear 265 - > what would help me to perform higher 266 - > level. Yeah. So you hear that from as if 267 - > it's coming from them like what would 268 - > what would help you perform at higher 269 - > level. And that reframe is quite powerful because at 270 - > that point you're not going say, oh yeah, I'm good 271 - > because know, think about things that 272 - > you really can use help with.

Yeah. So 273 - > yeah, that shift changes everything my opinion. 274 - > Okay, so us know comments what is something that 275 - > you've struggled through alone just 276 - > so wouldn't have to ask for help group 277 - > therapy session time in the comments. Oh, 278 - > that's I'm saying.

279 - > So for each one you name, I'll name one 280 - > too. That's that's this well goes deep. 281 - > So let's say that you've made peace 282 - > with asking. You've listened to what 283 - > said.

You've taken heart and everything 284 - > is great now. OK, so there is worst trap 285 - > that is waiting that talk about. So boss 286 - > asks, you're finally willing to to talk. 287 - > And then brain says nothing.

Nothing. I 288 - > got nothing. That's right. That's right.

289 - > got nothing That's what this this this 290 - > slide should have been called. I got nothing way. 291 - > So you've gotten over the shame around asking things 292 - > from your boss. Now the mechanics.

293 - > Here's rule. Never answer nothing when 294 - > someone budget or authority or connections asks 295 - > what you need from me Remember like I'm 296 - > good. That is that's not humble. Like 297 - > that's it's a wrong answer.

It's totally 298 - > leaving tool on table that was handed you. Handle 299 - > first business edge first. 300 - > This like leaving a second blank check on the table. 301 - > That's right.

302 - > so in the Marty Kagan transform book because we did a 303 - > whole podcast on that with with Ed. 304 - > was arguing as a 172 review of transformed by Marty 305 - > Kagan [UH] from July 10th, 2024. Well, 306 - > almost two years ago. it's nice So 307 - > when did that one [UH] I believe in 308 - > the book Marty Kagan says well the job of 309 - > modern manager is basically just coaching the 310 - > employees and making sure they continually develop 311 - > and you know, basically hiring too.

So like that's a pretty 312 - > straightforward job description. Yeah. 313 - > Coach and take care of your people. 314 - > Yeah.

sort aligns with you know, one 315 - > the agile principles too, right? You 316 - > know, hire motivated individuals and get 317 - > out their way. I'm paraphrasing, but 318 - > effectively that. 319 - > Right.

And other, the other source is 320 - > [UM] L. David Martin says fix the environment where 321 - > your people can excel and then get 322 - > out way. Right. 323 - > Trusting to do job.

324 - > Right. Yeah. Oh boy. 325 - > That is that's far cry from the cynical 326 - > steelman point here which says Listen, I 327 - > hired smart people.

328 - > Don't bother me. Go figure it out. 329 - > Yes, yes. 330 - > Yeah, mean and like all this like one on 331 - > one, the Jensen Wang's world right 332 - > here this category, all these one ones, 333 - > this manufactured need like it's just 334 - > like we're too smart for that.

335 - > In Jensen's case, it's one on 60, isn't it? 336 - > It's one on 60. 337 - > That's right which is a, it's a, it's movie. see.

338 - > Oh goodness. Yeah Listen, the boss 339 - > wants something when they ask you, what 340 - > need? Right? So try align yourself with 341 - > why it that you're being asked that?

342 - > What it that they could possibly, you 343 - > know, be coming to the table with but 344 - > then immediately swivel to do I have 345 - > everything I need succeed what I need 346 - > regardless of where coming from? It 347 - > doesn't have to come from boss. It could 348 - > be something that you need from somebody else with 349 - > within or you know, outside org. But 350 - > mention it your boss and you'd be surprised.

Good 351 - > bosses say go talk to so -and -so. 352 - > right. Suddenly you have direction. 353 - > least can chase down You're jumping ahead 354 - > package little bit.

355 - > That was one things like, yeah, the intro to other 356 - > people that you otherwise would be 357 - > basically cold calling. get [UH] also not even know 358 - > who to reach out to if your work large 359 - > or you're new or if you're new. Right? 360 - > Yeah.

361 - > Yeah. This great one It's like the cynic 362 - > is like doing nobody favors. Like cynic 363 - > is like this almost like burnt out 364 - > manager this point or somebody that doesn't want to 365 - > succeed. That would be the arguing point 366 - > of the cynic that the one that I want 367 - > to call out would be the practitioner In 368 - > this case, says like sometimes we're like 369 - > we're our full state.

We don't need 370 - > anything. Get, get my way. Get way, 371 - > bro. Yeah.

You know, the worst one would 372 - > be the academic because they're just 373 - > like playing my games over here being like you know, 374 - > the reciprocity is like you can ask, 375 - > you can demand too much and kind overwhelm and know, 376 - > you're overasking. 377 - > So you're being seen as needy or high 378 - > maintenance. And like I, I'm curious 379 - > what your take one because I feel the 380 - > person that says that number one is 381 - > they're looking at it and like a like 382 - > sanitized viewpoint like outside viewpoint whereas 383 - > like if we have relationship, shouldn't the relationship.

You 384 - > should know when you're demanding too much the 385 - > relationship. That's just like relationship thing. 386 - > Yeah. 387 - > Yeah.

388 - > Yeah. So the academic in this viewpoint, if you 389 - > have managers that fall into this category, you'll 390 - > know this because these the people 391 - > that will bring you on side let's say 392 - > you have standing one ones every often. Right? They 393 - > being on side and say I got nothing 394 - > this time.

Yeah. So the framing, I got 395 - > nothing. So we'll cancel our one on 396 - > one. Right.

If you see that and again, 397 - > you see repeatedly, it tells you something. Right? 398 - > Because not caring about what you want. 399 - > They're just saying, need my time back.

400 - > We did whole episode on ones like now now. 401 - > Why one one still matter and why you 402 - > should have them? It was from June 4th, 403 - > 2025 oh, look that. 404 - > Almost a year ago.

Yeah, are you Angle to 15? 405 - > little over year ago. Yeah, yeah know 406 - > talked about. Yeah, did talk about Jason 407 - > Wang that one.

I wonder if want to 408 - > wonder talked about anyway. Yeah. 409 - > Whether you're product manager, team lead, individual 410 - > contributor or whether you own a snappy leather jacket not Owning 411 - > your one one agenda is crucial for 412 - > career development. 413 - > That's the story just said.

It's like 414 - > your manager is got nothing for today. 415 - > Let's cancel it. 416 - > Right? yeah, But it's not, it's not really their 417 - > meeting.

It's really your meeting to 418 - > bring the agenda. 419 - > And if you really have nothing now, you're this 420 - > category. just pointed ,don't don't 421 - > do that. Don't I got nothing what need me 422 - > this week?

Nothing. 423 - > And then get some practical tips a 424 - > little bit later. 425 - > But you should never have blank piece 426 - > paper or whatever. 427 - > Blank mind for your one got, whole category.

428 - > If So the busy practitioner already 429 - > talked about that Sometimes don't need 430 - > anything anything. 431 - > We'll talk about that later. Let's keep that mind 432 - > later. So let's go on to Like I'm fine.

I'm 433 - > good. I got nothing like almost never 434 - > 100 percent true. 435 - > Like that, like I've been in tons 436 - > workplaces and me on regular basis, 437 - > especially when I'm like trying jam out 438 - > some development stuff. don't want to 439 - > come out of my zone right now.

That's 440 - > that means. That means I don't think 441 - > I'm too busy right now. Leave me alone. 442 - > Like me put if could push meeting off couple hours 443 - > something like that and come back you on 444 - > my time.

But the scheduled time on the on this 445 - > calendar. OK, so again, let's put pin 446 - > that one because to come back that one 447 - > later podcast. 448 - > OK, OK. If you don't relationship with 449 - > your manager, where can be hey, I'm in 450 - > the zone right now let know when you to 451 - > log off for the day.

452 - > Let get last 10 minutes your day. 453 - > We'll come back that. I got whole category this 454 - > podcast just for that one. But the 455 - > other ones that are here, perspective, the manager 456 - > scoreboard in your organization is your 457 - > entire team's output or their, you know, 458 - > department or however you're right.

you saying 459 - > hey, I'm good. I don't need help with 460 - > anything is keeping their scorecard down 461 - > basic you're dragging team down because they're not, they 462 - > don't anything by themselves. Right? 463 - > Yeah, they don't.

464 - > Exactly. And could, you from from being 465 - > a manager, had eight people my department 466 - > that hired for and I managed. I, there 467 - > was no individual there was individual 468 - > metrics because that workplace was crap. 469 - > But there is no individual metrics 470 - > on me.

They're all my team's metrics. 471 - > So they're all like separated by a layer 472 - > or two. Like I can roll in and impact 473 - > one or two if I want to. But I can't 474 - > I can't personally be present and help 475 - > like push buttons for every right now.

476 - > That's like that's another podcast that 477 - > I've been wanting do while, but I can't. 478 - > I can't It's probably one have guest because my 479 - > experiences are so old now because was 480 - > like I had my product management career came after 481 - > that. Right? So like I probably wouldn't 482 - > able remember great specific examples.

483 - > Be better to find somebody who's know 484 - > more current. Sure. 485 - > With that with that experience. But I do 486 - > remember that is like I went from I 487 - > can touch everything and have a direct 488 - > impact on everything to now I have 489 - > influence as impact on everything.

And 490 - > you know, unblock. 491 - > But if everyone's super busy and has 492 - > no time to tell me where I can be 493 - > effective, now I'm going get myself trouble. 494 - > Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 495 - > So if we're have takeaways in this 496 - > section, I'm say takeaways section 497 - > [UH] stop.

Kind why I'm doing William Shatner. Stop 498 - > treating what, what you need as pleasantry and start 499 - > treating it as an open checkbook? 500 - > Going back to the opening podcast. 501 - > which is you never answer nothing and 502 - > you name one real need.

And if you can't name real 503 - > need, this is what was say. you can't 504 - > name real need because you're too 505 - > busy whatever, you promise by the end 506 - > day, I'll deliver you a need or something. know, me 507 - > get back you. Give couple hours delay.

508 - > delay rather saying no, get you next time. Yeah, 509 - > this more likely to happen you know, if 510 - > you're caught unaware because you 511 - > have a regular one one whatever format 512 - > it is, right, you have time until next 513 - > one. So as and when you think things, 514 - > just keep a notepad handy somewhere, 515 - > whether it's your machine or actual 516 - > notepad whatever is I personally just 517 - > use sticky notes and write down things 518 - > that talk about with my boss and I stick 519 - > those the side my monitor.

So when I'm 520 - > speaking them, they're there as pointers. 521 - > There go. You don't, you don't even know 522 - > but you're already advancing us in the 523 - > agenda. So that the main thing remember 524 - > in this section is never let nothing be 525 - > your final answer.

526 - > Yeah. Yeah. That's main thing though. 527 - > Get these takeaways.

528 - > Forget everything talked about. But 529 - > just remember that one when boss asked 530 - > you nothing or got, I'm good. Never 531 - > answer. Yeah.

OK. 532 - > let us know comments when's the last time 533 - > your boss asked you what you needed and 534 - > you blinked what. 535 - > And also if can if you remember like 536 - > what should you have asked for. 537 - > Right.

And in between how did that 538 - > work out for you. 539 - > right. That's If you if don't mind saying that 540 - > Now the second that you start asking for 541 - > things on purpose in corporate environment, 542 - > someone's to call it manipulation. That 543 - > person might even be me [UM] I put that one.

544 - > know. did back after I was yeah, manipulated communication there 545 - > or whatever. 546 - > so [UH] if our deprecating. yeah, I 547 - > advice is always have ask, let's deal 548 - > with the guilt that some people might 549 - > feel about that.

OK there's a 250 year 550 - > old move where you ask someone for a 551 - > small favor and they end up liking you 552 - > more for it. It has name. It's called 553 - > Benjamin Franklin Effect. OK, people hear that 554 - > hear their head that it's like manipulation tactic.

555 - > I'm pretty sure that this was mentioned in the Robert 556 - > Cialdini influence book as one the 557 - > influence tactics that and they might 558 - > recoil because they might think, it's 559 - > manipulative. OK. 560 - > And again in arguing agile 235 October 28th 2025 changing your 561 - > try. So people hear message adaptive 562 - > versus manipulative communication we 563 - > talked about this, this topic that met.

564 - > So people will hear about the Benjamin 565 - > Franklin effect and think, when you make 566 - > small requests of people, then there's 567 - > like a psychological thing that goes along where like 568 - > they want to please you and they regard 569 - > you in higher esteem because of that exchange because 570 - > you're asking for things and that that's real 571 - > documented thing. 572 - > I'm not go off like showing citations 573 - > that kind stuff Everyone can go read 574 - > about it themselves.

575 - > Yeah But it's [UH] the oldest most honest 576 - > relationship glue that we have and 577 - > refusing to use it does not signal that 578 - > you are principled. 579 - > OK, it just leaves you isolated. Right? 580 - > Refusing utilize it.

581 - > Yeah. So this is a the Franklin autobiography 1791 582 - > right where rival lends him a rare 583 - > book and lasting friendship follows. 584 - > There's a quote from that book He he that 585 - > has once done you kindness will be 586 - > more ready to do another than he whom 587 - > yourself have obliged you yourself. Yeah, 588 - > yeah, that makes lot of sense.

Yeah, right, right. 589 - > It would make more sense if could quote 590 - > properly. There's also Jacker Landy 591 - > landing 1969 human relations [UH] study 592 - > that favor raises liking. And this was 593 - > in a clinical environment.

believe 594 - > that to increase his liking for recipient 595 - > of the favor where they, where they 596 - > tested this lab But again, this is a 597 - > well -worn effect that can read about. 598 - > You see this, you know, quite often like in even 599 - > kindergarten, right? 600 - > Kids that share their lunch with somebody else or 601 - > give someone candy This is known thing. 602 - > It's human trait or behavior, not trait behavior.

603 - > Yeah, it's And and also the other one that's like a darker 604 - > pattern where like rewards that are infrequent and 605 - > unpredictable in frequency like hacks 606 - > the human psyche to get people do things 607 - > over and over again. 608 - > Yeah, like there's lot little little 609 - > like the Robert Shield. Any influence book is 610 - > pretty good because it talks about all these little 611 - > patterns. And that book will give you 612 - > all the citations and studies all that 613 - > stuff.

absolutely. 614 - > But like be prepared because like even 615 - > audiobook is like 12 hours like it's a 616 - > big deal. Yeah, it's deal But like again, 617 - > we're not trying to. 618 - > This not the.

This episode for like 619 - > familiarity, the familiarity with 620 - > these things. It's not episode where we 621 - > normally do or we're going into citations 622 - > and kind of picking them. Yeah. the 623 - > steelman and yes, there's steelman 624 - > here.

Believe not, the cynic here is 625 - > say, oh, you're try to get them invested 626 - > so you can work them over later that's 627 - > what I'm talking about. 628 - > boy. Oh boy giggity. 629 - > Oh goodness gracious.

mean, is most cynical take, 630 - > isn't it? Like really is. You you 631 - > have no trust on something. Yeah, how 632 - > dare you have actual human empathetic 633 - > relationships.

dude. 634 - > Chill out, man. 635 - > Crazy, isn't it? 636 - > Yeah.

Well, look, least least it good 637 - > old college try Don't just write people off from the 638 - > beginning saying [UH] this try use 639 - > me. You don't know that. That's a. 640 - > Yeah, it's a cynical take, but think it's 641 - > also one that's pretty prevalent out there.

642 - > What about the practitioner of it 643 - > feels gross to ask [UH] quid pro quo feels gross. 644 - > Yeah, think that one I'm a little bit more kind of 645 - > tolerant to because if feels gross, what 646 - > you have do is just simply roll your 647 - > sleeves and say, yeah, I'm deal with 648 - > this anyway. And I'm not expecting 649 - > anything There is no Quid Pro Quo for me 650 - > personally. But happens, happens.

651 - > Yeah. Right. you. 652 - > tell you about moving out from working for tech 653 - > teams and work and working in product.

654 - > And also when I started working real, real close 655 - > sales for the first time my career. 656 - > really started understanding like 657 - > sales, just product management. But without the 658 - > technical work and with bigger commission. 659 - > Oh boy And like and with money for doing 660 - > anyway.

Right. was so weird this I had 661 - > get over myself in my career with this 662 - > because cold calling people don't know or 663 - > whatever send them messages what know 664 - > emails or know approaching them at 665 - > conferences or you know finding out when people be 666 - > places and then going with your product with your 667 - > team whatever. Like that also could feel 668 - > gross or slimy or whatever say. like 669 - > listen, that's how that's relationships 670 - > get built.

That's how that's how sales get made. 671 - > 110 percent. Yeah. 672 - > So [UH] yeah, I agree with that.

673 - > deliberately protect folks. 674 - > That's hard to protect. 675 - > It is hard because they like to think 676 - > that you know they have everything 677 - > takes to make things happen. Right.

But 678 - > we always need that. 679 - > So position yourself in a place where 680 - > other people likely be that you want 681 - > something from that can feel like this. 682 - > Right. But end day, without that, you're 683 - > not get anywhere.

So just, you know, suck 684 - > up. Go there, do it and don't come across as well. 685 - > know, that person didn't help me, so 686 - > won't help them That doesn't weigh well all. 687 - > Yeah.

Listen, like salt, so like to say 688 - > back up that salt back up that dump 689 - > truck salt and just dump on me. All 690 - > right. Listen, when someone says, oh, playing 691 - > psychological tricks like at that point 692 - > they've decided that there's no way the 693 - > relationship can be genuine [UH] sorry 694 - > to make. Yeah, must be fake.

what like? 695 - > what relationship is genuine at that 696 - > point? yeah, right. 697 - > know that that's stretch argument 698 - > from my perspective.

699 - > I will say, but also again from someone 700 - > came from tech teams who jumped over to 701 - > travel and work with sales the sales 702 - > process in product yeah, you can look 703 - > at it that way. oh, these relationships 704 - > not genuine. Or be like these people 705 - > have problem and all rest products suck 706 - > and our product is good. [UH] even if 707 - > our product's not good now, we get 708 - > great team and we can improve it to 709 - > make it the best prior of world world 710 - > class product market leader whatever.

And 711 - > you're just it's a perspective that 712 - > you're locked into that for some really. Why? Why 713 - > even locked that perspective? How did 714 - > even get how get here is what I'm 715 - > saying.

Where's Mike Miller [UH] you here? 716 - > I know my Mike Miller and my Bill 717 - > Cosby are very close together. They're 718 - > dangerously close together. do have 719 - > say.

Do you have some jello? Oh like 720 - > if the need is real, you're not working 721 - > anyone. That's that's if I'm dismiss the sole 722 - > category it's a need for real. Do you 723 - > really need?

Did you really need something? 724 - > Yeah, it's not fake then. 725 - > Right. Right.

So stand behind that. 726 - > Get rid of all these other thoughts. 727 - > Yeah, yeah mean that's it. 728 - > takeaway [UH] stop being guarded for 729 - > reasons or whatever and saved and start 730 - > letting people invest in you with 731 - > real small asks.

732 - > good thing. That's, that's take away 733 - > this category. Go try it. That's what 734 - > I'm asking here.

Go try it. Think, think 735 - > something somebody can help with even it's tiny or 736 - > trivial. And then go ask them practice 737 - > that because if you're especially 738 - > you're you're a QA analyst or QA engineer or somebody 739 - > like somebody like real low level a on 740 - > software development team and like go over to like 741 - > customer support or sales or something 742 - > and go ask them for, know, hey, can I sit 743 - > on your next call? 744 - > Hey, can I, you know, ride over your 745 - > shoulder while you're doing a support call something like that 746 - > Yeah.

At least they feel appreciated 747 - > that somebody cares about what they do. 748 - > And flip side of it is you'll be amazed 749 - > at what you learn. 750 - > Right? That example of testers, whoever 751 - > is, you know, sitting in and listening to support 752 - > calls.

Right. You realize what the customers are 753 - > actually feeling they're going through experiencing. So yeah, 754 - > a quick review. the other thing you could like 755 - > Go sit in a sales person's cube with 756 - > our laptop.

Go pull up the environment. 757 - > Here's we're thinking of what you 758 - > think about it? Like we're not necessarily to 759 - > change the software based on how that 760 - > one person thinks about getting feedback. But.

We've 761 - > asked them, hey have five minutes to just 762 - > demo this super quick thing? Five 763 - > minutes. What I'm saying is the ask for that five 764 - > minutes, not even necessarily demo. 765 - > You're now working out that muscle that 766 - > otherwise people tech teams with like 767 - > bosses that are, know, overwhelmed 768 - > not looking out for, know, sponsorship 769 - > opportunities, that kind stuff.

You're 770 - > exercising that muscle now that otherwise should be doing, know. 771 - > Yeah, 100 percent. 772 - > Yeah, I agree. 773 - > So the real need is an invitation.

774 - > change your frame reference where you're not 775 - > perceiving it as manipulation. It is 776 - > just invitation to do something. That's it. 777 - > If you recognize the real need, then ask 778 - > for help or ask for even you just want 779 - > chat with somebody about Right that is 780 - > not sign weakness.

781 - > On contrary, it's a sign that you're 782 - > taking ownership. 783 - > Yeah, yeah Just remember high performers, they, 784 - > they don't need less. They need better inputs. You 785 - > know, best employees not independent.

786 - > They're well supported. 787 - > Sorry. time anyone says less, I hear 788 - > [UH] eight teams and one product manager. 789 - > It blows mind any time hear less.

790 - > Sorry, that's that's not cool. So if no, 791 - > that's not that's not even transition. 792 - > So let know comments what's a small favor 793 - > that someone may have asked you for 794 - > that actually made you like them more. 795 - > If can think one, let us know because 796 - > I bet that you felt this from other side 797 - > and never actually named it until you've heard our 798 - > examples this category.

Yeah. 799 - > right. So we understand that asking is fair game 800 - > but there is a fork road. So do you ask 801 - > what helps with work or you ask what 802 - > helps you?

Because those not same thing. 803 - > Absolutely So by the time most people finally do 804 - > ask, they ask for the low hanging fruit. 805 - > Oh, I thought appreciate putting hanging slip in low 806 - > hanging fruit only a little little her fruit. 807 - > How low hanging?

808 - > that was a that a was she hasn't been 809 - > here in thousand podcasts [UH] 's my 810 - > gesture like low hanging fruit [UM] 811 - > if anyone could talk into the microphone 812 - > through her teeth, that was low hanging 813 - > fruit. So by the time most people 814 - > finally do ask, they ask for the low 815 - > hanging fruit, the unblock this, make 816 - > this decision, let people know about 817 - > whatever. Right? 818 - > That's fine, right?

819 - > No problem. right. 820 - > Sure The asks that actually move your 821 - > career are the ones that fly at the boss's altitude. 822 - > Okay, an intro here, sponsorship opportunity there, 823 - > an invite into room that otherwise you 824 - > wouldn't get into a shot the thing that 825 - > is above your grade.

826 - > What with the safety net of your boss 827 - > team whatever, know, backing you those kind things. 828 - > you're not just asking get unblocked. Now that 829 - > know how to ask and you're comfortable 830 - > with this tool. Now let's use it to kick you ahead.

831 - > Yeah, yeah, yeah. 832 - > Not just work. Yeah, Absolutely. 833 - > There is a concept of sponsorship 834 - > versus mentorship.

835 - > And I've talked about this for a long time on podcast. I've never 836 - > specifically named it as citation. I 837 - > didn't look the Sylvia Ann Hewlett. 838 - > don't know [UH] about this as citation.

But the 839 - > one I queried, this is name that came 840 - > up. So I'm go look around anyway. 841 - > Anyway, it's not important about this 842 - > individual person, but it is important understand 843 - > difference between sponsorship and mentorship. A 844 - > mentorship great.

845 - > You've got someone who's like kind 846 - > taking under wing and who, you know, 847 - > kind helps you and gives advice. Sage advice 848 - > based on their experience perhaps. 849 - > Right? Yeah.

So mentors do. Right? 850 - > Yeah. Sponsorship is quite different 851 - > because sponsorship is they actually are looking 852 - > you to slide into.

853 - > opportunities for Yeah. Sponsors actually [UM] spend 854 - > right there, you know, middle capital 855 - > whatever to help you. They genuinely 856 - > help you as opposed to here's what's 857 - > worked for me in the past, which mentor 858 - > might do. Right?

859 - > They might even stress and say you 860 - > should try Might work you. Right. But 861 - > sponsors, the other hand, they're the 862 - > ones that push you ahead. Right.

So 863 - > we're already past this. What's helping 864 - > [UH] you know, your work to what is helping you. 865 - > So the reason I wanted to highlight 866 - > that was to point this category of your, your boss 867 - > coming and asking, hey, need? What can 868 - > help with?

And most people will just 869 - > think about the work I'm blocking that 870 - > kind stuff. But now I just want to 871 - > introduce the, plant seed of what are they doing to 872 - > sponsor opportunities for you in your career 873 - > to get ahead because you may not have 874 - > manager that is like that. You may not 875 - > have manager that is capable of doing 876 - > that. You may work for someone one likes.

You know, 877 - > I've been there too and understanding 878 - > that you're working for someone that 879 - > can't get you ahead is a valuable information. 880 - > Yeah. So you start wasting time there. 881 - > Right.

And try elsewhere. Right. 882 - > That's the [UH] The bee buzzes over to a 883 - > flower, sniffs at it. Ain't nothing 884 - > there.

Move on next hour. 885 - > right. That's this is good category. But for, 886 - > for good category home, there's steelman.

887 - > There's always still. So the cynic 888 - > says always closing for me [UH] that might 889 - > sound selfish and self -centered little bit. But at 890 - > end day, nobody's come you and say me 891 - > do this for you. 892 - > Yeah, you've yourself.

893 - > Yeah, mean would sound selfish if the 894 - > [UH] if the the that promise of like get 895 - > your degree, work for company and retire there 896 - > whatever and that hadn't totally collapsed like 897 - > decades ago. Right. 898 - > You know it. Then I would have different 899 - > take on this.

Sure. 900 - > That's that. That's gone long time ago. 901 - > Yeah, it's gone [UH] we're sending 902 - > out gold watches.

903 - > the academic on this say, well, use where 904 - > you can find sponsorship which may not be your 905 - > direct manager that drives your advancement, not your, not the 906 - > mentorship. The mentorship might drive skill and 907 - > might drive other things, but like it won't drive 908 - > advancement or least maybe at the pace 909 - > that sponsorship will drive advancement. I would 910 - > say that one. I'm kind of like a little bit fence 911 - > on that one.

I feel like. So want make 912 - > sure this isn't something we're saying is A or B. 913 - > It's not. It's both.

914 - > Right? The mentorship helps you in the here now 915 - > sponsorship helps you here on outwards 916 - > right forwards in future. So you need both. 917 - > And then the last one here, the practitioner would 918 - > say, hey, grabbing credit, always looking grab and 919 - > grab the credit.

920 - > That just poisons the team which which 921 - > listen, that's a, mean, that's good steelman. 922 - > It's good steelman. 923 - > Yes you know, people who do this by way, 924 - > you'll recognize that when they say I 925 - > led the team to do this. Right?

Right 926 - > always, they never have the team as 927 - > their leading sort of you know, sentence. They'll 928 - > be, I always. Right. 929 - > Me, me, me.

So these people are taking 930 - > credit. Does it poison the team? 931 - > doesn't help. Right?

932 - > Yeah. contrary, if you're in team like 933 - > that, when someone's doing that all time, 934 - > how feel? Let us know comments. 935 - > Seriously, know like you do about that?

936 - > Yeah. 937 - > yeah, like advocacy. 938 - > It's not credit grabbing. It's visibility.

So it's 939 - > not theft. It's visibility. that's 940 - > tough one for lot people grasp is that you're just 941 - > elevating because again you've on dev 942 - > teams, no one ever talks about elevating your 943 - > visibility. You do, everything as a 944 - > team.

And when do everything team, 945 - > like lot dev teams, like have one two 946 - > people that get used presenting everything, you know, and they 947 - > become the visible people or maybe the 948 - > team lead grabs and presents because 949 - > they're the people person on the team. 950 - > this is a tough one that the better 951 - > teams do some kind rotation where the 952 - > person that was like primary developer 953 - > feature whatever presents it during 954 - > the demo.

And they take they basically 955 - > take turns, you know, and the lead 956 - > has idea that has kind eye on like if 957 - > anyone's trying you know, if anyone's 958 - > always like the secondary or anyone's taking 959 - > backseat whatever, then they'll kind of 960 - > push that person to the front or whatever. But teams 961 - > usually the good teams usually take 962 - > care this. The bad teams. Yeah, understand bad 963 - > teams.

Yes, they're ones where like, well, leads 964 - > presenting everything. there basically are 965 - > developers the team as far management 966 - > concerned. Right? 967 - > Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. That's good one advocacy. 968 - > Though the work asks here, they're the 969 - > baseline. That's the way want to think 970 - > about this just make sure that the asks 971 - > are still happening.

972 - > Those are work related. And then the advocacy ones, 973 - > the sponsorship ones over beyond. Yeah, yeah, 974 - > for sure. Yeah.

975 - > that's this category. So there a takeaway here, which 976 - > I mean we just gave enough, but there's 977 - > more. Stop spending every ask on the 978 - > work directly start spending some on your own career 979 - > trajectory. 980 - > And remember that you want to, you 981 - > want lead with the unblocked.

But then 982 - > you want to, to go above beyond kind 983 - > what we just said. 984 - > know. 985 - > Yeah, absolutely. 986 - > Ask for intros, ask for sponsorship, ask 987 - > for, know ask things are career related, 988 - > not just focusing work.

Right. Okay. 989 - > So us know comments. 990 - > What is the when was the last time that 991 - > you did work and nobody upstairs heard about it 992 - > because you didn't ask your boss to 993 - > carry it up.

What was that work? What 994 - > happened after the fact? It's you know, let know. 995 - > So now all this assumes that can actually think ask 996 - > the moment.

And we already know that 997 - > your brain goes blank. Let's fix that situation. so 998 - > here's nuts and bolts fix. The reason that mind 999 - > goes blank when boss asks what you need 1000 - > is that you have needs.

Everything's 1001 - > everything's cool. 1002 - > That's yeah. Yeah. I think talked about little 1003 - > bit earlier podcast.

1004 - > The reason is you can't think it the moment. 1005 - > in this situation. 1006 - > can't think it moment There is something that you 1007 - > can rely on if you've been, if you've been working 1008 - > on agile teams all these years, which is you have a 1009 - > backlog of impediments that need be removed. You 1010 - > have backlog work needs be done.

1011 - > the organizational blockers and the things that are 1012 - > holding your team back and then slowly 1013 - > working through and improving your team 1014 - > because you're not doing that. 1015 - > are doing? I mean, Yeah. doing with life?

1016 - > that core, I'm to write down my impediments and then 1017 - > slowly churn through them. That's what 1018 - > you're use here. 1019 - > Yeah. Yeah.

And if you're leading with 1020 - > the work during your one ones, what 1021 - > better place start than your impediment backlog. 1022 - > So congratulations. 1023 - > Just like a scrum master is responsible for 1024 - > causing the removal of impediments. 1025 - > Congratulations.

1026 - > You're now scrum master, right? You 1027 - > will also be out work soon. That's 1028 - > what I'm saying Thanks me. knew you.

1029 - > many. Right. That you're Yeah. Just like this 1030 - > maps directly to everything we've 1031 - > been doing.

I would hope that none this 1032 - > is a shock anyone listening to this 1033 - > podcast. But if you do want shock, the 1034 - > cynic would say what now a complaint log. 1035 - > Now you got a list complaints. 1036 - > Oh boy, boy.

All ever do complain [UM] That's 1037 - > right. get labeled whole list. that's 1038 - > exactly right. will get labeled Sounds like you're 1039 - > just complaining.

1040 - > yeah. Yeah. it's, and if you're this 1041 - > situation, recognize the the symptoms 1042 - > when you know your boss says hey Fred 1043 - > here, Mary here is be on your team for 1044 - > little while just to observe. They're not 1045 - > there just to observe folks.

1046 - > They're there to basically replace 1047 - > you in short term. 1048 - > Yeah. So beware you know, best part 1049 - > that, like the impediments, like these are systemic 1050 - > blockers. You can't anything about like 1051 - > why, why they on your list?

Like really cynical. You think these 1052 - > complaints like you don't improve our 1053 - > team like what who hurt you. That's 1054 - > that's what to say in this. But say in 1055 - > Mike Miller accent [UH] but I'm not 1056 - > It's like you're going to not because 1057 - > it probably got edited out from earlier podcast when 1058 - > I into them.

But like the practitioner here is 1059 - > going say the best asks are done the 1060 - > moment. Yeah. you can't predict them 1061 - > can't write them down because they're 1062 - > done the moment which I'm kind like 1063 - > it. It sounds good.

1064 - > But I stop and just like think critically minute 1065 - > I'm but are they like yeah, they're 1066 - > done moment. But can't you just like 1067 - > write them down moment and then they 1068 - > become part backlog and then they're not 1069 - > moment anymore? 1070 - > Yeah, absolutely. 1071 - > Yeah.

So when we say backlog, don't necessarily mean 1072 - > have have it your [UM] way you don't 1073 - > have. Yeah, right. 1074 - > It could just be some scratchings 1075 - > right on a notepad so that you don't 1076 - > forget, so that you don't freeze. have 1077 - > some prompts go off of.

1078 - > That's right. We keep forgetting. Oh 1079 - > boy. It's a listen, it's not a grievance 1080 - > log.

OK, it's, you could put labels 1081 - > to this. that need to keep because things that slow 1082 - > down and things you're just dealing 1083 - > with. You're living house and the roof 1084 - > is leaking certain spot and this doesn't work and your dishwasher 1085 - > doesn't work or whatever. do you want write those down get them 1086 - > resolved just live there and have your 1087 - > quality life suffer?

1088 - > you probably should at least write them 1089 - > down. Right? So that one day someone 1090 - > asks, what can I for you? can point like, 1091 - > I really hate that the roof leaks[UH] that and can 1092 - > prioritize the first thing do first.

1093 - > Right? 1094 - > So it's not grievance law. Don't let someone tell you 1095 - > it's a complaint list. 1096 - > So keep running.

1097 - > Let's keep thinking. 1098 - > the one I do have to call out as maybe 1099 - > you do think about is you might to curate the list 1100 - > little bit before you publicize. 1101 - > Because yes, you don't want when someone's like, what 1102 - > need help with? You probably shouldn't rattle off 10 1103 - > things.

You probably should pick one, 1104 - > maybe two at the absolutely most if they're both 1105 - > crucial. 1106 - > Just prioritize those based on impact. You should 1107 - > well your way. 1108 - > Right?

1109 - > Right But also like depending talking 1110 - > to, you could pull off that list. The 1111 - > one that fits the audience the best. 1112 - > Right. Where likely to get some help right from its 1113 - > source?

1114 - > Yeah yeah, that's a, that's a, that's one 1115 - > that don't hear talked about anywhere of pulling 1116 - > the right, the right item to be unblocked 1117 - > off the list in front the right audience at right time. 1118 - > think to certain extent that is a it's a part of 1119 - > experience really. 1120 - > know, the longer you've been doing 1121 - > this, you kind learn that target. 1122 - > So there is a takeaway here and it 1123 - > is to stop stop improvising your needs on the spot 1124 - > and to start pulling from backlog.

even 1125 - > that backlog is written on back of a napkin. 1126 - > Sure. 1127 - > Is I personally friend putting things down as bullets a sticky 1128 - > note and put them the side my monitor. 1129 - > So I don't forget.

1130 - > That's right. That's right let know comments 1131 - > [UH] do you keep running asks list? 1132 - > And if you do what some what are some 1133 - > things in it that you've gotten resolved because 1134 - > they're in the list So let us know. 1135 - > Maybe someone maybe someone comments can 1136 - > unblock you.

1137 - > Probably not, but maybe there's hope. 1138 - > So started this whole thing with one 1139 - > tiny expensive word. 1140 - > Nothing. That's right.

So let's finish with [UH] 1141 - > something equally expensive here is the five 1142 - > line cheat cheat that you can copy 1143 - > from this podcast was one things that 1144 - > think this is the first podcast that 1145 - > is going go up with this new ending of 1146 - > the sticky note that you can just copy 1147 - > that can put side your monitor for the 1148 - > next week or two. 1149 - > Right? To try to ingrain a habit in 1150 - > head. And this one them there there's home 1151 - > next it.

There's me next it. All right. 1152 - > Here's home. There's me.

This all takeaways from this 1153 - > broadcast. Number one, a sharp ask is 1154 - > flex. It's not confession. Number 1155 - > two, never let nothing be your final answer.

Number 1156 - > three, a real need is invitation. It's 1157 - > not manipulation. So get over yourself. 1158 - > Right.

Number four, lead with the on 1159 - > block and bank on the intro. With 1160 - > intro is the what what can you do your 1161 - > career? Sure. Number five, keep running 1162 - > ask list.

So you're never caught flat footed. That's 1163 - > right. never got flat footed by your dex bonus. 1164 - > we started with one sentence.

Nothing. 1165 - > I'm good And we ended with this little monitor sticky. Hopefully 1166 - > everyone can use that and kind of 1167 - > develop the skill and get better at 1168 - > asking for things and getting better 1169 - > at developing real human relationships. 1170 - > That's saying.

1171 - > Absolutely. So I just like to get a 1172 - > yes and on that one say next time your 1173 - > boss asks what you need, don't answer 1174 - > fast and so smart. 1175 - > And can do that from what you've learned 1176 - > today on this podcast. That's right.

That's right 1177 - > Because people who grow fastest They're 1178 - > the ones who know exactly what they need. 1179 - > I need about tree fitting. 1180 - > Yeah, always. 1181 - > If you also need tree fitting, like 1182 - > and subscribe, And let us know down 1183 - > there in the comments below.

What 1184 - > else you'd like us tackle?