Do You Enjoy What You’re Doing?

Speaker A: Hey. Hey, everyone. I'm your host, James Jackson and this is artcast. Join me each episode as we shine the spotlight on a category management or shopper insights professional doing compelling work in the trenches. If you're ready, let's dive right in. I'm finally here today with Tonya Jones Fosu and she is senior director of category leadership at Kindergarten, which now is a part of Mars Health and Wellness. So, Tanya, welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thank you, James, so much for having me on board. Happy to be here.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So you hopefully have listened to the show, um, and probably aware that I'm going to be asking you a bunch of questions about your career journey. But I, uh, want to throw a little question out there that you may not be prepared for but hopefully can wrap your arms around it. So. So.

Speaker B: Okay, let's go.

Speaker A: When I say Work Meaningful foundation, what does that name mean to you?

Speaker B: Wow. So, um, Work Meaningful foundation is the heart of what my husband and I have created. Um, it started, wow, about three or four years ago, right before I met my husband. And um, he wanted to be able to build roots, um, where he's from in Ghana. And uh, he went back home to his dad's village and asked a simple question of how can I help? And that turned into, well, we need clean drinking water. So his organization created that. That turned into dual desks. His organization created that. And where Work Meaningful foundation came from, that was actually not my husband. That was actually a local newspaper that called his organization. So my husband's organization is called Work Meaningful. His business and the newspaper said all of this work was done by the Work Meaningful Foundation.

Speaker A: Oh, wow. They put it on. It.

Speaker B: They put it on. So my husband's like, well, I guess I have a foundation.

Speaker A: I guess that's the name. Okay.

Speaker B: Um, so yeah, it literally started from a newspaper. Ah. Yeah. So I've, I've been a part of it for the last, again, three years. It's been truly a blessing. We just commissioned last summer our first ever school. So like. But not, not Oprah style. Right. Like, we didn't write a check. We had to raise money the old, you know, old fashioned way. Um, but we fully commissioned that last year, brand new middle school and then we are commissioning next summer a tech lab inside of that middle school. Yeah.

Speaker A: That is amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah. So wow. For that. Yeah. So thank you for mentioning that. It's like my heart started beating. So I'm like, it's, it's meant so much to, to my husband and to me, uh, since we met. So it's been great.

Speaker A: Awesome, awesome.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I found that I do a little homework, and I was like, oh, yes, you do.

Speaker B: I like it.

Speaker A: You might want to talk a little bit about this, so. Good. All right, well, that will hopefully get, like you said, get the blood flowing and everything, so. All right, are you ready?

Speaker B: I am ready.

Speaker A: All right, well, let's get in the trenches. All right, so let's talk a little bit about your career. So you've been in category management for a while.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Um, what is it about category management that you like and kept you in the game?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I think a couple of things. Um, I really wanted something that I could create on a daily basis, and if I were to take a step back, I think someone gave me advice very early on in my career, which was to understand not, like, what you like, what you don't like, but what are your core values, and then how would that show up? So, for me, I knew I wanted something where I could create something new every day. I know I get bored very easily. Um, I know I like to solve puzzles. I know I like to provide value. Um, I know I like to be rewarded for my work. Um, so those are all the things, um, that I've appreciated that have kept me in this function for, I think, over 20 years, dating myself maybe 25. Um, so I like that it's also immediate gratification. Right? So you can build a story of. Build an analysis with your team, sell it to a retailer, and then you see it on shelf. And I just. I remember trying to explain what I do to my mom. Right. What do you do for a living? Help me understand, please. And I remember taking her to a shelf. This is when I worked for Campbell's. And I was like, see how, like, this looks on the shelf? I was like, that's part of my job. And she's like, oh. So she's like, okay, I can complain to you because, like, I'm so confused around, like, why this looks like this. Um, so I love the immediate gratification. Um, and then I would say the last thing is I love the rotation of skills, um, that I've seen. Category management has evolved where there's been some. Some skills I've had to pull out of my toolbox or create that I had no clue would. Would ever be this way. So I love that I'm constantly having to learn, um, as well.

Speaker A: No, that's good. It's funny that you say the example of, um, um, soup, you know, and Campbell's, because that is the Example I use when I talk about category management to people, the exact same thing. And just everybody shops at the grocery store. So it's a way to really kind of bring it to life. My family took 20 years to figure out what I do, so I'm kind of the same, say, boat.

Speaker B: So go to a store and you can see what we do.

Speaker A: Just go, oh, exactly, exactly. So, um, I understand kind of what gratifies you or what gives you power when it comes to category management, but there's only been one person on this show that actually knew about category management as they were, like, applying for the job or getting into it. Most people stumble into it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So what, what drew you into the function to begin with?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I, I think it was, um, a couple of things. One, just the. Where I started, um, which was Nielsen. Right. And there's a lot of training. You learn a lot about the four P's, which, um, those are things that you learn in college. And I'll be honest, I was like, I'm never going to use four P's ever. And it's like, no, that's the core part of my role is, like, what the four P's are. So things you do learn in college, you do need. Um, I also think, again, learning about the data side of Nielsen, and I started on the database side. So I was the one who was, like, actually coding the databases when you worked with a manufacturer. Um, but I was very curious around, what did this data then mean from the manufacturer side, which is, I moved from Nielsen to a manufacturer, um, as the next step in my career. I was very curious around, okay, I can see the data in the system. I know there's someone on the other side probably analyzing it, but, like, what are they doing with that information? What are they creating with it? Is it creating products? Is it helping with shelving and pricing? So I was always very curious about the other side of the coin. Um, and I think that's probably the biggest thing that drew me, just that curiosity.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: Um, and wanting to own. I was very like, ooh, I would love to own the other side of that. Um, especially, you know, working with those vendor partners and seeing what they did on a daily basis.

Speaker A: You know, it's funny, um, we've had a few, a good amount of people that have started at specifically Nielsen, but solution providers, syndicated data providers. Um, and so it's interesting that. And a lot of you are saying the same thing. I was on the coding side and I wanted to see the other side. And so it sounds like it just seems to be a great, um, proving ground and just kind of understanding portions of the process and then being able to then kind of map your career over to the other side where you're actually data to insights and uh, interacting with clients. So that's interesting. So you've been at kind now for almost two years and there's an area that it plays in that has a lot of attention right now. Health and wellness. What are you seeing with shoppers, consumers and shoppers? And you know, you talked about things have changed. So how is, maybe how are things now versus in the past? How are they different?

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for this question. Um, it's interesting because I've had the pleasure or been very fortunate to have worked for some health and wellness companies like Soup. But then I'm in snacking, which you could say, okay, there's healthier snacks, right? Um, but not traditional health and wellness defined. Um, I work for confections, right? So gum, candy, um, and coming back to health and wellness, I've definitely noticed a couple of things that I would say are different. And these are honestly things that we are um, consistently talking about and tracking. I, um, would say the couple things. The first one I think that we focus on a lot, that I've been focusing a lot with my team is it feels like there's been this shift from like diets, right, like Atkins and all those things to like, um, uh, I would say create my own thing, right? So it's like adding, adding and reducing. So, um, I want to be able to have more protein. So add more protein to my diet, which I know that's like all the craze right now, but then I want to remove sugar and calories. So it's kind of like a self selection option almost to like, it's just dieting and focused on weight. I, um, think because of that it's wellness is more personalized than ever. Um, and I think that's because of AI, right? Like I use myself. I used to use my mom. My mom was my AI chat bot. Um, call my mom and say like, hey, like what do you think about this product? And my mom is a wealth of knowledge. Um, um, but now, right, I can go into chat GBT and say, hey, I'm trying to, I want a specifically high protein diet, lower sugar, like, give me a list of items that will help me hit this or, um, create a personalized workout plan, um, against that. So I think personalization is probably the next biggest thing that we've seen and shift and of Course, that's all tied to GLP1. Right. Um, and what that has done to the market. Um, so I think the technology piece of it and then I think, and I don't know if this is a part of the economy. Right. And some of the spending, uh, tracking that we are looking at in terms of consumer spending, et cetera. But I also feel like it's like a back to the basics approach, um, when it comes to health and wellness. So making sure I'm getting my physical exercise, um, I'm understanding the, what I want in my diet more than managing stress and relationships and how that impacts you. Right. So it's kind of like I can create my own, um, methods, if you will, or how I'm going to adopt that. Um, and just focusing on getting back to the basics versus having someone tell you this is how you should operate. Um, which I think is pretty cool. And from my team and in my role in tracking all that and like panel and shopper metrics, it's really cool to see how shoppers are personalizing, um, their shopping experiences and what's in their basket.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, you bring that up. And I was actually at a conference, uh, last week, uh, the Nourishing Change Conference, uh, um, down in Des Moines. And so it was a convergence of brands and dietitians and pharmacists and so on. And so it was, to your point, um, the topic of food as medicine is a big one. Um, where it is, I think, at least in my generation, you know, I could take this pill or I could do this diet or what have you and that would solve everything. And now it's like, no, like you said, I can personalize it, um, I can drink this drink and it has extra protein, you know, collagen, all these, you know. But it is definitely, um, individual, individually, uh, curated. Um, and so it's just interesting that we have kind of gone, I don't want to say full circle, but yeah, it is kind of. It is back to the basics, but food is at the center.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And I think that that's been super interesting, so. No, I appreciate that. Um, and I do see that, um, we're seeing this convergence. Health and wellness category management. You know, I didn't, uh, never interacted with a dietitian before and now they're probably going to be more important than ever or other health professionals in that conversation.

Speaker B: Yeah. If I can just add to that. Yeah, I do. And I'm just using my own experience. Yeah, I do think those types of roles are going to Be very important with personalization. And, uh, I'll just use again me. I sometimes get very confused on like, what is collagen used for specifically? Like, I'm very, I'm very concerned about mixing things that I shouldn't be, um, if that makes sense. Because I do want to curate it for myself, which is why I use chat gbt a lot of like, this is what I'm doing. Are there any interactions or things that are like counterbalancing what I'm trying to do or counter, you know, counter effects to what I'm trying to do? Um, so I do worry about that with the personalization of the education piece or relying on those types of partners is going to be really important.

Speaker A: Yeah. The dietitian. I'm shocked at how much they know.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I mean they know everything. And so, yeah, I think we, we're going to rely more heavily on them as well as, like you said, AI. But I think that whole I'm on my own journey. Yeah, but that journey might be even different from my husband or my, you know, know my family. And we all kind of have the tools and the products that can allow us to get there.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So, okay, um, let's go back a little bit. You talked about Nielsen, um, and we talked about your coding experience, but just in general, how did Nielsen prepare you for just this overall career that you've had that was kind of the starter, but it obviously fueled something. So what was it that it instilled in you or what kind of skills that they give you?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think understanding the basics or the foundation was a big part of my experience at Nielsen. Um, and I share this with a lot of the folks who joined my team, whether you're at the analyst level, manager level, understanding the difference between, you know, base and incremental and promoted and non promoted and um, those, those basic facts are, I think, key to a lot of roles within our industry, not just category management. Um, I think too was the experiences that I had with the vendors. I was very fortunate. Um, I worked with Avon and l' Oreal and sharing Plough, um, and just being pulled into projects, not just the database side. But I eventually moved to client service, which is like the one on one partner. Right. Being exposed to the work that they were doing and again, understanding and seeing. Okay, we as the vendor partner have the knowledge of the data, your hierarchies and how you want to look at it. But then how does that translate to a selling story and an analysis that you're then going to take either Internally, or you're going to take to a retailer or it's going to help solve a business question. So I think the power of Data for me was the exciting piece. Um, and I learned something recently. Just, um, that data is power.

Speaker A: It is, right?

Speaker B: Data is power. Data does not. We always say in our industry, data does not lie. I tell my team that all the time. Data doesn't lie. Um, if you purely look at it, um, there's a lot of different ways you can spin it. We all know that. We know the magic spin in the industry, but I think data is powerful, um, and what you do with it.

Speaker A: Okay, awesome, awesome. Let's go a step further here. Um, I looked at your profile and I've seen that you've had a couple stints in customer marketing.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I don't want to assume I know what that means because it could mean different things in different companies. So what does that department do? Or at least what did you do? Uh, because it just feels like it touches a lot of different areas and activities.

Speaker B: Yeah. So that's a great point. So I've heard customer marketing, trade marketing, customer development. Right. I think they're very, very similar. Um, at the end of the day, I define it as that team is the liaison between sales and marketing. Um, I oftentimes, when I've managed those teams, refer to it as the true glue, because we are the glue that I think holds those two teams together. Right. And making sure that what comes in, um, from, you know, a retailer to the brand is understood and then vice versa. Right. What needs to go from brand out, um, and if there's ever any differences, um, or gaps or opportunities, customer marketing is the one that's filtering through it, making sure that we have the right selling stories, the right opportunities. So it's kind of a, the glue, um, a true glue, meaning we're supposed to be as potentially unbiased as possible, um, and just providing what's right for the organization. Um, I also see it as the conduit to storytelling, um, and the conduit to supporting either sales or brand and making sure that we have the right content. Um, I had a past manager when I started off in customer marketing, and he explained to me, like, we don't sell products in customer marketing or customer development. We sell proof. Um, we sell proof in the item to the sales team and then we sell proof from the retailer. Feedback back to brand. Right. So like, retailer saying this packaging or this pack size is not going to work. That's proof that that team would go back to Bryn and say, hey, this is not working in the marketplace. We need to look at X, Y and Z and then vice versa. Right. I'm selling, helping to sell proof to that same retailer that they need to take the new kind granola item. Right. So I see it as, um, a true, true conduit. And I love what he said. That just helped m me so much of my career of like, we're not selling a product, but we're selling proof.

Speaker A: Proof.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Love it. I love it. So you dropped a little bit. Uh, or, uh, a name trade. Okay. And so I wanted to understand, or at least get your perspective, what are your thoughts on revenue growth management? Because that seems to be playing a lot into evaluating trade spending.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: It's kind of maybe bleeding or saying it could bleed in a category management, but what, what do you. Do you have revenue growth management at kind?

Speaker B: We do. Um, we, we call it srm. Um, very, very, very similar Strategic Revenue management. Um, but it's essentially the same thing. Right. They are responsible for, um, trade deployment, trade actions, pricing changes, all those things. I feel like most of the organizations I've worked for have had it. Now, to your point, where it's sat, sometimes it's been in sales, sometimes it's been in marketing, Sometimes it was in, um, what some organizations now call like a strategic demand organization. Right. So I've seen it sit in different places, but I feel like at the heart of it, what they do from what I've seen have has not changed at all. Um, which is essentially managing the money, how I describe it. Um, and I think it's been very interesting for category management because to your point, um, I've seen throughout my career different interactions with that group. Meaning in my past life, category management and revenue management were like neck and neck or side by side. Meaning my team would own the why behind the product placement shelving, and we would partner with revenue management on the promotional piece. Right. So we would feed them the lifts for promotions and we would talk about all those things and they would provide the financial roi. Um, so you had kind of a full package of, hey, here's all the households that we brought in that Catman provides. But then here's how much it costs. Um, so I do feel like there's a continued opportunity to link category management and revenue management. Um, I've seen some really cool things. Even with managing assortment and backing into, like how much trade we invest by sku, right? To say, okay, before we position something to a retailer, are we conscious of like our M margin Profile what we're providing to that retailer. Um, so I think it's a fantastic function. I think it provides a lot of richness to what category management brings to make sure at the end of the day, if you work for a company, we are all responsible for top line or bottom line. Um, and that team helps keep things in check. Okay. Which is pretty cool. Okay.

Speaker A: Interesting. All right. It's just. It feels like RGM has got. Right now, it's Day in the sun, where there's just a lot of talk about it. I thought it was interesting since you. You touched it and obviously have had interactions with it. So, um. So Campbell's.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Um, you had quite a run of Campbell's over a couple of year period, two year period. Uh, most of us want to do well in our job and get a great review and so on. You in 2021. I'm going to read this. In 2021-2022, you won the 2022 Shelby Grocery IND Award, or you were a winner for that. You were the 2022 Campbell's BRG Trailblazer Award. You were the 2022 High Five President Award winner. And you were the 2021 President Award winner. What were you doing?

Speaker B: I'm laughing because I'm like, I have no idea. Um, I. This may sound, I don't know, very. I don't know. I'm gonna say simple. I really enjoyed what I was doing. Um, meaning, um, I had a really great opportunity. This was right after the, um, George Pulley murder, um, where the organization really wanted to create a space to have open conversation and dialogue. And I was asked to create this organization, which we later called disc, so Diversity and Inclusion Sales Council. And that was meant to have open forum, open dialogue, um, really get to understand the culture of Campbell's and what it needed to look like in the future to have, um, more empathy, safe space, um, all those things. And I didn't. It's funny because. And this, I think, is just a plug for, like, lean into things that don't make you comfortable. Um, because I was like, I don't want to do that. For a lot of different reasons. For a lot of different reasons. And I was like, why are you asking me? Right. Um, but I did. And I found myself really enjoying the work. I found myself really enjoying the interviews. So we did a lot of leadership interviews, wanted to get their point of view, both what was happening socially at the time and within. Cue balls. Um, it got to the point where, like, I was really doing a lot of HR or human resources driven work. And I had people actually say to me, like, you should think about a career in human resources. Because I was really involved in like policy change and process change and like, we shouldn't be posting these types of things on social media or how do we take the things that you see in the wall in the building. Right. And add more empathy, um, to it. So I was all in. And I think what happened was being, I don't want to say being rewarded for the work. Right. Like, I wasn't in it to get all those things, I was in it to like really do the work. And I was extremely grateful. Right. That those rewards came, um, as a part of that. Right. Um, and just being passionate about what I was being asked to do and rolling up my sleeves and being, being uncomfortable.

Speaker A: So I want to kind of double down on that because it opens up this conversation about not only one where you asked to do something, you didn't raise your hand, somebody said, hey, you look like you'd be a great person to do. So there's that. But then also to do it well, it required you to take some risk. It sounds like, I mean, if all of a sudden you're walking, you're saying what's on the wall is not okay.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: What's presented in social media, we need to do it in a different way. And you're hitting different departments that you're not even a part of.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And you said kind of lean into it. But what does it take or what did it take for you to kind of manage that risk? I guess first to say, okay, I'm willing to take the risk, but then also manage kind of a, uh, give and the take, knowing that you could fall flat on your face, you could run into a wall. There's a lot of, there's a lot of watch outs, hurdles or whatever you want to call it that come with kind of being an entrepreneur, um, in that space. But what was your process? What did you deal with?

Speaker B: Yeah. So the person who, um, reached out to me actually positioned it as an opportunity for me not only to be uncomfortable, but for me to take risks. And they felt like I had a lot of great ideas. Um, I am an introvert by nature, so I'm not often the loudest voice in the room. Right. I'm, um, not often screaming with like, oh my gosh, we need to do things differently. Uh, um. But this person was like, you have a calm demeanor and people will listen to you because you aren't the loudest voice. Right. Like you're going to come with facts and solution. Facts and solution. So they felt like having a calm presence to how I approach things was what was needed. But to your point, um, having to go to like the head of hr being like, these are all the things. Um, um, I was putting my own career on the line because I still had to manage my day job. I had a very large category management team at the time. Um, um, and then asked to do all this stuff. So I think two things that really helped me. I think one was getting advocates early on. Um, um, and walking them through what I was thinking. So I didn't want to be the solo person. And that's just how I manage risk. I like to plant seeds, plant the seeds ahead of time. So we all, we know we all go down. I'm just joking. But it's like we're all gonna,

Speaker A: um.

Speaker B: But I spent a lot of time, um, bringing people along to what I was thinking after the interviews that I did of like, hey, I'm hearing this, like, would you come along this ride with me? Like, how do you feel about that? Um, pressure testing ideas. So I wanted to have, um, our head of sales at the time, I wanted him to interview people and have tough conversations. So I was getting thoughts around that. Um, and then really not creating shared ownership, but again having people come along. And then I think secondly was. And I learned this very quickly, it is a business at the end of the day. So anchoring the ideas into what it meant for our bottom line and top line. And I hate to say it that way. Right. But that's. It's a business. Right. So it's like, what's the business impact to what you're asking me to do? Um, and it's like, well, people will leave, right. And there'll be less, there'll be more turmoil. So will people be bringing the most productive and authentic selves because of that? Um, so I, I think every time I went to HR or our advocates, I've tried to position it as, here's the business impact if we don't do this.

Speaker A: That's really good. I love the fact that at the end of the day it is a business. Yeah. So it's that I've got to have a story. Mhm. That shows exactly what the value creation will be. So interesting. Love it. And I'm an introvert too, so with the podcast, I did not plan on doing this. So.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: But you do have to lean in sometimes to what's uncomfortable.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: All right, um, last question for you in this section, you've been around category management, you said 20 years and so don't worry, I've been around a little longer than that. Um, so we're both dating ourselves. But you've seen changes in retail with manufacturers, solution providers. Nielsen has changed. Um, so just a lot. You, you've seen the ups and downs. Where do you think category management is headed? That's my question. Um, I'll let you decide how you want to approach it. Maybe it's a spot analysis. I don't know what you want to do, but I'm interested because we talked about health and wellness, we've talked about AI. Really interested in your perspective.

Speaker B: Yeah, this is a good one. Um, I think I will approach it a little bit. Um, from a swap perspective. Um, I also appreciate the um, association that we are part of because I feel like in the last three or four years this has definitely been, I think a big question around where will things go from again? AI kind of disrupted all that, but I think even from a talent management standpoint. And then what will that mean for Catman? Like will Catman be Catman ten years from now? Um, I think if I go back to when I first started, right, I feel like it was more centered around delivering data, reporting the numbers, helping retailers understand what happened. But I think today that expectation is much bigger. Um, we have to influence the next three years first and then influence the end year. Um, so we're constantly foreshadowing, providing foresight. So reporting to foresight I think are one of the things that I think where category is headed. And we talked about that in the last association. Um, right. Um, in Vegas around what does the future mean and having a team within your function that's purely focused on the next three years plus at a minimum. Um, I also think because of where the industry is headed, um, one of the, I'll say the strengths that I think is a big opportunity is I do think category management is going to be more valuable than ever simply because retailers and manufacturers, they do want that true thought partner. Right. They have their own data, uh, they can scrub things how they need to. But having someone come in and advise, give strategic lens, right, Help them to think three years out, sometimes four, maybe five. And I just think it, it keeps you away from what is that analysis or paralysis? Analysis or analysis process. Um, so I do think there's going to be strength in category management. Um, overall. I also think just a human element of category management, being able to provide influence, relationship building is still going to matter, especially With AI and we talk a lot around like AI is not the human. Right. So you have to be careful how you prompt it, what you're looking at. But I do think you're still going to need someone to provide the human element, the consumer element of what is happening in the organization or the industry overall. Um, and I think that's going to be fundamental to how we shape the work of category management in the future. So you're going to spend hopefully less time pulling data, which I'm very excited about and more, more time driving strategy and scenario planning and having organizational influence. So I'm excited about like being in, being able to influence a five year innovation plan. Right. Like that's one of my. If you were to look at my goals, that's one of my biggest goals is I want to influence the shelf and what's on the shelf five years from now. Um, and I do think the organizations that are going to be at the top of that really going to figure out how to move from insights to execution. Um, um, just because of what we have available. Um, um. I also think there's a big opportunity though for category management to have. Do I have a stronger voice internally? This is something that I talk about with my team a lot of yes, we should be retailer facing, we should be the true retailer partner. But we have a lot of powerful data and information and again I said before, data is power. So how do you again using my example of my goals, how do you make sure that we are at the center of innovation before it's even a thought? Right? Um, shop or strategy before it's even a thought. I think those are, those are opportunities. Um, I do think on the challenging side that kind of the opposite of the opportunity. Right. That we are not chasing speed and automation through AI, that we also lose the strategic piece because, and I'll use me as an example, I'm so focused on trying to. What do I use Claude for? Chat Microsoft copilot. Like I'm in such automation mode right now because I'm trying to move things quickly but I have to constantly remind myself like how were you strategic today or how were you strategic this week? Um, so I don't also lose that muscle because I'm so focused on like how to automate my work quickly. Um, and then I would say the last opportunity, especially for people, leaders out there is going to be talent development. I think there's going to be a major focus area. Um, the skill sets are going to be very, very different. And again I think we talked about this, um, as a part of one of the association breakout. So, yes, you're going to need analytical business acumen. Right. But, um, having more creativity. Right. Um, being able to adapt with change, um, those are the soft skills that I think folks are going to look at. Um, and it may change how you hire and who you hire.

Speaker A: Yeah, boy, I kind of wholeheartedly agree with all those. I think my ideal situation is category management as the hub. Yeah, RGM's gray customer. But I believe that category management should be the hub. Uh, it is more at the retailer, manufacturer, whatever. It should be at the center. Um, and we've talked about this, um, internally, but there's always the conversation about it's the balance of the art and the science. And the pendulum was swung more towards the science. And basically what you're saying is the art is going to come into play more, whether that's with creativity or relationships or what have you the influence. Um, because AI can do a lot of things, not a lot, but it can do a pretty good amount of the science or it will be able to. And so it does hopefully free us up to be more creative and help differentiate in what we're delivering. So this has been awesome. Thank you so much for this segment in the trenches. You're done. If you need to take a drink or take a breath, just walk around. As we got really deep. Um, now it's time to come up for air, finally. Coming up for air. All right, so, talked a little bit about your husband and, you know, a passion project for you. But just in general, people want to know a little bit more about Tanya. So can you talk a little bit about your personal life, family, whatever you want to share with our audience to learn more?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, yeah, I would say to get to know me better, um, I would say first and foremost, I am a mom, a wife. Um, and I look at my m. Excuse me, laughing as I say this. Um, I've had a lot of things happen to me personally. Um, you know, was married, remarried again. I have two bonus children now. Um, I commute between Philadelphia area and Charlotte. Like, that's a whole nother podcast. And why. Um, so I just. It's been a lot that has happened. Um, and I think I've. I would. What I want people to know about me is I had to learn the hard way to put myself first. Um, I'm very, very big now. Not just work, life balance, because I think that pendulum can swing right between work and personal. Um, but I'm very big into self care. So my team knows, like, I am in the gym every morning. Um, we do walk and talks for our meetings. So, like, if it's nice, nice outside today, um, we will go for walks just to spend time on you. Um, I think is very, very important. I think because of all the things that have happened to me personally, I try not to get, um, overstimulated a lot. I try not to be frustrated and just really make sure that I'm good so that I can be a better wife, mom, leader, you know, employee at the end of the day. Um, I'm also someone that I've tried very, very hard at the same time to not let my job define who I am, um, or my role define who I am. Because all this can change in a heartbeat. Right. Um, if you just look at the industry overall with this, you know, buyouts and mergers, acquisitions. Right. Um, the industry, the shopper. What's happening with the shopper? Landscape, um, consumer landscape. Right. Like, things can change very, very quickly. So I think I am very much focused on what can I do that's meaningful outside of my 9 to 5, 8 to 5. Um, like the foundation. I do a lot of mentoring work. Um, I. More. I most recently spoke at DePaul University with my team. That was really fun, talking about the career, um, path and consumer packaged goods. I spoke to Temple in the past, so I'm really just, um. I'm really focused on what's meaningful for me every single day that I wake up, whether it's one thing, two things. Um, because, you know, life is short, and I don't want to be defined by just the role that I play and what I get paid for.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, I love that. The self care piece is really interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And the walks. I haven't heard that much walking.

Speaker B: Talks. Walk and talks. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. Like, why not, right? If we're. I love it in front of our computer, let's walk.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. All right, so let's end with this. Um, and I'm going to tie it into what you just talked about with DePaul and Temple. So you're talking to students that are maybe interested in category management. You're also having to kind of talk to them about the future and how you kind of lean into the future in a career for that type of student or anybody who's listening, who's saying, I want to be at the top of my game in category management, what would you recommend or what you believe it will take for someone to succeed in category management?

Speaker B: Oh, that's A great question. Um, I would say a couple things. Understand the foundation. First, um, don't be afraid to learn. And I don't want to just say my background is the right way, right. With going to Neil Slyner or Circana or data provider. But I would say get to know the data however you need to do that. Right. Whether it is being an analyst role, um, sales analyst, category analyst, marketing analyst. But spend time in the data. I would say secondly, spend time in the store. Um, that would be probably my biggest plug. Spend time in the store. And I have to stop myself because I keep saying in the store, online.

Speaker A: Yes. Okay, yeah.

Speaker B: Um, spend time on both, interact with both. Right. Um, get to know the shelf, get to know the shopper. Um, ask questions like if you see people in the aisle, ask like why, why did you pick that item? Right. Look, people love to talk when you ask them questions. FYI, I found, um, you could do your own little survey. Um, and I would say the third thing is don't be afraid to ask questions and raise your hand for projects that get you, um, more experience and exposure. Um, don't be afraid to create your own analysis. Don't be afraid to have a point of view about what you see happening. Use what you see on social media, TikTok, Instagram, what have you of like, hey, I see protein as a thing. Let me do my own analysis and provide a point of view to my manager, my manager's manager. Right. So don't wait for someone to tell you to do a deep dive with data. Do it yourself. Um, I think it's the, the um, wanting to be not only creative but be proactive, um, I think is really important.

Speaker A: Those are great nuggets, I think and actually they're not that hard necessarily. No, I love that. Um, and one, get into the stores. I love that one for sure. Because I think we get stuck in the office or at home and we're pouring through data and it's like, especially with AI, you have a chance to kind of get out and it's important, you know, because there's a lot of things changing.

Speaker B: Yeah, I wish I had done that earlier on in my career. I really do just got to know the store better. Um, even if it's, you know, for those people who have a retail organization like ask to go in a retail route. Right. Like that's. I see you shaking your head like that is the most eye opening experience.

Speaker A: It is.

Speaker B: Um, just while I'm going on a route, um, is really cool.

Speaker A: Well, Tanya, this has been awesome. Thank you so much. I know you're busy too, and there's a lot going on, so really appreciate all your insights and just sharing your story.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you, James.

Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so you've just listened to another amazing episode of ArtCast. Please look forward to more interesting people like Tanya in the weeks to come. And please also don't forget to share our cast with your colleagues. So if you have features, feedback, topic suggestions, or you too want to appear on the show, please go to www.catman.global. artcast. As I always say, just scroll down to the bottom of the screen. There's a form there. You complete it, it comes directly to me and I'll be sure to get back to you as soon as possible. All right. Today's episode was produced by me and also it was edited by Jake Neeme and recorded in Minnesota. Our theme music was brought to you by Bryant Lowry. And a special thanks to my friends at the association of Retail and Consumer Professionals for their promotion and management. So that's it for today. Signing off. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you on our next episode. Bye.