Should AI be your Study Buddy? with Kowalchuk | Approximately Correct Podcast

Speaker A: Because in thinking about AI, we need to really fundamentally change our assessment practices, our instructional practices. If a question can be easily answered by ChatGPT, it's probably not the right question to ask.

Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to Approximately Correct. I'm Alana Fish.

Speaker C: And I'm Scott Lilwall.

Speaker B: And this month we have Jill Kowalchuk, who is the manager of AI Literacy at emi.

Speaker C: If you've been listening for a while, you'll actually remember that, uh, Jill was on our second episode of this podcast, second Ever, where we talked about AI in the classroom.

Speaker B: Yeah. But from a really more like, philosophical standpoint. Whereas, uh, this interview was really more getting down into the nitty gritty. Because one of the things Jill did here at Amy was create a K to 12 sort of, uh, work kit for teachers to use in order to talk about AI in the classroom.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So. So we thought it would be a great time to check in with Jill again, see how things have changed. The conversations obviously, change a little bit and to talk a lot about, like, what AI literacy means and where we want to go to achieve it.

Speaker B: Yeah. So here's Jill.

Speaker C: Jill, thanks for joining us here again. Actually, returning guest.

Speaker A: So excited to be back. Thank you for having me. I feel so honored.

Speaker C: Yeah. And we had a great conversation about, uh, AI and education, and it's been a little bit. So we wanted sort of an update on. Because things have changed a little bit.

Speaker A: Things have changed. I feel like the last time I was on the podcast, it was kind of around the time that I was just starting this work at Amy, and things have rapidly evolved in the past 2ish years since I was last on. So I'm excited to talk about it.

Speaker B: So if you were to summarize, like, what are the big things that have happened?

Speaker A: I think, like, just the pace of change has been so crazy when it comes to education. I think when I really started this work at Amy, um, it was the teachers that I was working with, the school boards that I was working with, they were kind of in a state of panic almost around what to do with this technology. And I will say it was a spectrum then, and it continues to be a spectrum of adoption now. But back then it was more so, like, do we allow students and teachers to use this technology at all, at all? Like, that was the question that everybody was grappling with, not only in Alberta, but kind of like across North America, across the world, in many cases. Right. Um, and now, of course, that conversation has evolved to a place of policy, of guidance, of thinking about things in Ethical terms, How are we using these tools ethically? How are we, um, you know, thinking about the, the grand implications for teaching and learning? I'll go back to kind of at the beginning, implementation, it was really positioned, or AI was positioned, um, as this fad. Right. In education, we're very used to this idea of a technology coming onto the scene.

Speaker B: And you've told me that about that a lot. Like the teachers would be kind of skeptical of new technology.

Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Like, you're going to learn this, you're going to go through all this professional development, we're going to implement it, there's going to be meetings on it, and then three months later, nobody speaks of it again. And so there was this panic kind of mixed with this skepticism around, like, why are we even learning this, um, or doing anything or talking about this.

Speaker C: And it's obviously not the case now anymore.

Speaker A: Completely changed now.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, so what is the conversation now? You talked about policy, you talked about safety. Yeah, but what are the, like the pressing concerns?

Speaker A: Yeah, some of the pressing concerns remain the same. Same as kind of closer to when generative AI came onto the scene when it comes to those plagiarism conversations, when it comes to how is this going to impact the way that students are able to think critically or not be able to think critically in some cases. Um, but there is this, I think, broader shift towards the school boards that I work with that are like, we need to get guidelines in place, we need to get frameworks in place for teachers and for students. But on the teacher side, think, thinking about, you know, what can we provide teachers that will help them be able to evaluate or assess whether an AI should be used in their classroom or not.

Speaker B: And that's one of the things you really work on right at Amy was trying to figure out how teachers can incorporate AI into their curriculum. So do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So, yeah, that was really the, I guess what underpins the entire AI and K to 12 program. So really what we did is we had two pilots. I probably spoke about the last one, I think, when I was on, um, but these pilots were really centered on teachers professional development as well as co developing resources that teachers across the province could use that were aligned to the Alberta Program of Studies, Um, and our curriculum that's set, of course, by the provincial government. And so that's really what the focus has been. And not necessarily like developing curriculum to overtake the provincially mandated curriculum, um, but thinking about innovative ways that we can infuse, uh, you know, new types of learning and resources into the uh, curriculum that teachers are already teaching to be able to support with those AI related competencies, um, that we're starting to see more recently popping up in different frameworks. Like there's a UNESCO AI Literacy or AI Competency framework for both students and teachers was released in late 2024 that a lot of school boards in Alberta are adopting and thinking about for their individual school authority of how can we equip teachers and students with those kind of leveled up progressions when it comes to competencies.

Speaker B: And I feel like you really worked with teachers though, right? Like it was a two way conversation. What was that like?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I thought even being a teacher myself, I was like, I don't want to create this in a vacuum or in a silo. I um, want to make sure that we have teachers across disciplines, across grade levels with varying lived experiences as part of this conversation. So those pilots, what we did is we worked with our school board partners to bring teachers into the fold, into the conversation and then we co developed resources with them over a series of months, um, with their, getting their feedback along the way if things weren't working or what was really great about the resources versus kind of where are the gaps. And so we were really able to iterate in both of our pilots, um, on you know, creating resources that are really meaningful. And I've had the opportunity throughout my time at AMY to visit classrooms and co teach um, some of these lessons as well with the educators that were part of our pilots, um, which has been a really fulfilling experience to see how these come to life in the classroom and the different pedagogical approaches that teachers take to the same lesson.

Speaker B: Oh, that's cool. Can you outline some of the things you saw when you were in the classroom?

Speaker A: Yeah, the first pilot was really focused on high school and I myself was a high school teacher, um, junior high and high school humanities, mostly social studies. So I had that experience and so um, I actually partnered with a newer high school teacher. Um, she had like just graduated and I went into her classroom to co teach one of the lessons on AI and the democratic process. It's just always interesting to me, um, how receptive kids are to thinking about technology in ways more than just like how to use the technology. Like they really, this generation of students I think are really like societally aware. Um, there's a lot of civic engagement and I think it's just such an interesting conversation to have. I've also loved like our second pilot was elementary, um so working more so with, like, the little. The little ones, which I don't know how elementary teachers do it because I'm like, I could not do that. Um, but it's been amazing to be able to see, you know, how inquisitive and curious they are when it comes to this technology and learning more and the types of questions that they ask. Um, it's. It's hard because sometimes we have, like, you know, we prepare in our lesson plans these scripts of how things are going to go, and then it totally deviates because a child has a very inquisitive or curious question that they want to ask.

Speaker C: They don't stick to the scripts?

Speaker A: No, they never stick to the scripts.

Speaker B: It's more fun when you go off.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: And I'm being more engaging if you're actually asking questions that they're interested in or like you said, the older students, I mean, the concerns or thoughts that they might have.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Makes the lesson, you know, more engaging.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's always interesting, too, I think, especially with the little kids. There was a lot more conversation around the kids thinking that their, Their parents are using AI and trying to describe how their parents are talking about AI. And that's. The parent conversation hasn't been a huge part of the program, the AI and K to 12 program. But I definitely think it's the next step for, for the program. Right. Being able to think about, you know, how do we encourage, empower parents to have these conversations with their kiddos as well? Because it's such an important piece of the education puzzle. It can't just be happening in schools.

Speaker B: We were talking earlier about how AI is moving so quickly. Like, how do you develop a curriculum to keep up with the parents and the students and how quickly things are changing.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really hard. Like, I think even the, like, learning kits, the resources that we developed two years ago, I'm like, I want to go back in and change them. Um, not like they're entirely outdated, but there's just been so much more information that has come out around even, like, you know, the environmental impact or, um, all of the new tools that are possibly available for teachers and students to explore. ChatGPT or OpenAI just released this, the study mode. Right. And so these new technologies are coming out all the time. Um, and so it's really hard to keep up. But I think when it comes to the curriculum question, it's more at getting at the underlying competencies that we're trying to achieve as opposed to trying to keep up with the Tools, because it's impossible.

Speaker B: What's an example of a competency like

Speaker A: problem solving, critical thinking, and how do we interweave AI into those competencies? So like, Alberta has quite a few student competencies that are infused throughout the curriculum. And so it's thinking about how do we connect AI literacy, um, to those competencies and also like the literacy and numeracy progressions that they have. And there's a lot of ways that that could be easily executed in practice because of the impact that AI has had already on teaching and learning.

Speaker C: Younger students, their parents are using AI, older students, they're using AI. How does it change things when the classroom is not the only place that they're learning about these tools, they're bringing knowledge in as well. How does that change your approach?

Speaker A: I think it means having more frank conversations with teachers, especially the ones that are still a little bit on the fence when it comes to adoption of this technology into their classrooms. I will say what we are seeing in Alberta, um, there's been some studies that have been put forth by the ATA in the last two years, some pulse surveys.

Speaker C: That'd be the Alberta teachers.

Speaker A: Yes, the Alberta Teachers association, where, um, we've seen a, ah, really big increase in the amount of teachers that are using AI, but it's mostly for their own workflows for their lesson planning, assessment, in some cases the admin related tasks or communications related tasks, um, that teachers, you know, have to undertake. Um, but we're seeing less of like the technology being put in front of kids in the classroom. And there's a multitude of reasons for that that I mean, I could go into, but, but maybe it starts with

Speaker B: teachers getting comfortable using it in their own ways.

Speaker A: And yeah, I think that was my approach. Right. Why we really wanted to center the teacher because of this fear that still permeates, um, the AI conversation in education. Um, I think we have of course our early adopters, but then we do have those teachers that are still on the fence when it comes to that, that piece. And that's always been the case in education. And of course students are bringing with them their experience, um, their lived experiences to the classroom. And teachers have to grapple with how they're going to manage all of those, you know, 30 plus different little lives in their classrooms and what knowledge those kiddos are bringing to the table.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Mhm. So I mean, you talked a bit about some of those barriers you feel are there for why you're not seeing some of the adoption.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Could you talk about a little bit what those might be.

Speaker A: I honestly think it comes down to a bit of the, like, policy conversation. Again, school boards are really trying to be intentional in thinking through the policy, um, the guidance, the frameworks that they want to put forth, and then having the resources to be able to train teachers as well as students on whatever technology they decide to bring in. I think there's also a gap when it comes to resources. Like most schools don't have one to one technology, meaning that most students don't have access to technology all the time when they're in school. Right. Like when I was a teacher, we had like three Chromebook carts for the entire school that you would have to book out. So, yeah, I couldn't necessarily always have the Chromebook cart in my room, which means they don't have access to it all the time. And school boards have also moved to remove cell phones from the classroom. And so those handheld devices are also not available to students to be able to access AI all the time.

Speaker B: And I want to just go back. You talked a little bit about the hesitancy you're seeing in teachers, and it, it has decreased, but it remains. And I'm wondering, is there a difference in the sorts of things that they're worried about?

Speaker A: I think it comes back to teachers being rule followers across the board and waiting for that guidance. I think a lot of the hesitancy stems from there. I think the plagiarism conversation also underpins a lot of this. There's also maybe a bit of a reluctance in some cases to change our pedagogical practices or our instructional practices to meet the moment. Um, and I wouldn't say that's across the board, but I think that also plays a role because in thinking about AI, we need to really fundamentally change our assessment practices, our instructional practices. If a question can be easily answered by ChatGPT, it's probably not the right question to ask.

Speaker B: Uh, I mean, as a professor, that was like such a moment of like, yes, I have been asking the wrong questions. And also the right questions are very difficult.

Speaker A: Yeah, the right. And it's very, it's a long, lengthy process to figure out, okay, how do we reach shape? Ah, what we're teaching, that we've been doing it this way for so long, so it's, it's hard to, you know, do that entire shift. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, from, I guess, both your perspectives, what, what is the right question? What, how has that changed? How has the nature of the questions changed?

Speaker A: I, um, think the, it comes down to more like the collaboration piece with the technology. I mean if we're looking at Bloom's taxonomy, which is kind of like the leveling up of skill, so start with like remembering tasks. So if you're thinking about like history, you know, what year did World War II begin? Right. Um, that would be kind of the lowest level of Bloom's, just that recall. But we need to get up to that create level at the top. And so the types of things that we're asking students to do I don't think is going to be suitable for maybe more of the standardized testing framework or you know, those multiple choice kind of questions. It's hard to get to those higher level of Blooms with that type of assessment structure. Not saying that we should totally do away with that, but just recognize that it's going to be much harder because of AI to have, I don't know, valid assessments, um, in that kind of space.

Speaker B: The bottom levels.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: But it also becomes much harder to, I mean at least in the classes that are 300 people like assessing like marking something that was done at a higher level, it becomes really taxing.

Speaker A: Mhm, yeah, I can imagine.

Speaker B: I mean it's problematic for teachers too because they have a lot of marking and it's a smaller class but there's more assignments and the cadence of marking is different and so it must also be difficult in those levels to keep up with that kind of marking. It's just very different.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think teachers always come to me and say that they've become pretty good at spotting when AI is being used by. I mean it's pretty obvious, I think to most of us that are exposed to the outputs of generative AI. And so that I think it's more of the question of the teachers being like how do I prevent kids from doing this? But maybe that shouldn't be the question because if they can easily create their own, you know, hamburger essay, that five paragraph notorious essay using ChatGPT. Maybe the essay. Yeah. Isn't, isn't the right, it's not set up in the right way. Or maybe that's not the type of assessment that we should be looking at.

Speaker B: But like to, sorry to flip the question, like we're talking so much about how to prevent them from using AI, but what happens when to students learning when they are using AI? Uh, they're, they're offloading these sorts of cognitive tasks to AI. Like that's what we're really worried about. So maybe just.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's exactly right. Right. And I Think I did talk about that a little last time as well. Like that cognitive atrophy that can happen with this over reliance on AI. And I think that's a really valid concern that is coming up for educators, parents, you know, just people in society worrying about that they're offloading too much of their cognition to ChatGPT or to a generative. A. Uh, I think the solution to that is really education. So it's this loop. Right. Because the solution is talking through how can we use it in meaningful ways. And so if we're still somewhat in a place of fear and we don't know if we want to talk about it or bring it in, or there's this AI use guilt that I see a lot from teachers, um, then we're not having those conversations about this is how we could use it. It's human nature to take the easiest route. So in some ways I'm like, I don't blame students for that, but it's just reshaping the entire point and coming back to, like, a fundamental question in education, which is, what is the purpose of education? Right, right.

Speaker B: What is the goal? What are the learning outcomes? Yeah. As my, uh, chair would ask me. Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah, it sounds like, like, almost. I mean, different in a lot of ways, but almost like a similar conversation when I was getting in, like, high school and university, where, you know, Google searches and Wikipedia kind of changed, and there was like, a shift of less. It was less the memorization of dates, like you mentioned, because you can just Google search that. And then it was like, what do you do with that information that you have? So it does seem like there's some parallels there. I don't know if that means there's some more solutions or it's anything like

Speaker A: that, but I think there are parallels for sure. But I wouldn't want to, like, equate the two as being the same. I have heard the comparison of, like, you know, chat, GPT, likening it to the Internet. Um, and I think that's a way more apt comparison than, like, the calculator comparison, which I talked about last time, which I don't even hear anymore. Um, nobody's talking about calculators. Yeah, nobody's talking about that anymore. Um, but that was also a conversation at the beginning, I think now. Yeah, this. This comparison to, like, the Internet, it's just that this technology is moving so fast, and it can be. It's so what students and people are able to do with it once you know how to use it, um, in effective ways, I think Transcends that, that Google search. Yeah, well, now it's integrated with Google. Yeah, that's the first thing that anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker C: So, I mean, that kind of works into, like last time we talked to you. Since then, your role has changed a little bit. Yeah, it's a lot more focused on AI literacy. So that's a word. I mean, you've used this a couple times in our conversation. We use it a lot. But I'd love to talk about, like, what exactly do we mean when we say AI literacy?

Speaker A: Yes, and I think it's interesting because the word AI literacy has also gone through, or I guess it's two words. The phrase AI literacy has really gone through an evolution as well. Um, and yes, I am the manager of AI literacy now. And so my mandate kind of expands from not only K to 12, but other spaces like post secondary and industry as well, which is a big focus for, for Amy. Um, but the AI literacy terminology, to me, it still really resonates in that I'm thinking about AI literacy as being able to effectively collaborate and communicate with AI technologies, um, in a way that really support cognition as opposed to reducing our cognitive abilities. And there's been other terminology thrown around, like we should be moving towards AI fluency rather than AI literacy. Again, coming from an education background, I'm really used to these different words popping up to mean the same thing. I think people would argue with me that they are. That AI literacy and AI fluency are the same thing. Um, or not. I think that in my view, how I view AI literacy, it really does speak to that fluency piece, being able to work with the technology in ways that almost become invisible to us or an extension of our humanness. And I don't say that in like a scary, like, post human way. Um, I just think about it in terms of like, even when you're typing on a keyboard, like, you don't necessarily think about your fingers or feel your fingers touching the keyboard when you're doing it because it's such like an innate experience. And so I really use generative AI as a thought partner as opposed to just a tool for my use. I think that when we've, uh, almost like denigrate it to a tool for our use, it's like we're taking away a lot of the nuance from the conversation and what these technologies are really capable of, um, when humans use them in intentionally.

Speaker C: So can you give me an example of like, how you might use it as a thought partner rather than just a tool?

Speaker A: For instance, oftentimes I'll just have it open at all times, um, ready to. Whenever I'm brainstorming in a writing process. I'm a PhD candidate, I do a lot of writing and so I'm always ready to turn to it, like, does this make sense or reformatting, um, something in way of communication, um, or even things in my personal life as well that maybe I won't get into here. But interpersonal, like, like communication and conversations. If you're going to have a tough conversation with somebody, I feel like ChatGPT can be a good starting place. I think there's a whole other ethical concern that kind of gets into that realm of relationships almost with generative AI, which has had some detrimental effects on not only children but also adults. I've listened to a, uh, New York Times podcast that talked about a woman who fell in love with, uh, an AI, um, whatever that meant to her. And again, it's when it's kind of figured out or brought back into our consciousness that this is in fact a technology, it can have devastating effects on our mental health. And that's what we've seen in some cases.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And I would imagine that would be a specific concern when you're talking back in education because I mean, that's also a place like schools are, where students are still learning social dynamics and, and how to interact with other people.

Speaker A: Exactly. Like the big hidden curriculum that's really not so hidden is that social piece of education is so, so important. I was talking to somebody who does research for the Alberta Teachers association who had been out talking to teachers. And there's been an increased reporting of students that have these synthetic relationships with generative AI. Um, and that can stem, I think, from a bunch of things, you know, the kind of lo loneliness epidemic that we hear about, kind of the impacts or the fallout of COVID 19 that we're still dealing with in schools. And so I think that's a really maybe separate conversation to have, but, um, also something to keep in mind that when I'm advocating for thought partnership with generative AI and how we carry out our professional tasks, I'm not talking about building a synthetic relationship with this technology.

Speaker C: And I think that kind of shows just how important m it is to be having these conversations now on how we want to see this technology used and you know, what we could consider to be safe uses and helpful uses and what might not be. Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Do you have any cool instances of how people have been using AI? I'm just thinking like the innovative uses Cool ways teachers have been using AI in the classroom.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Did you see anything fun?

Speaker A: Did you see anything fun?

Speaker B: Uh, I mean, it's all fun, but like, what is the most fun thing?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think any time where teachers have the opportunity to show how AI can get things wrong, I think there's a movement towards that. So although I mentioned that, you know, they're not necessarily putting AI in front of kids, like, here's your laptop, log into whatever and use it. Um, but they're, you know, on their smart board showing, you know, how would an AI answer this question? Oh, wait, does that actually connect with what we know to be true? Um, based on all of these other reputable sources. And really, to me that's cool because it's demonstrating that critical thinking piece can still happen alongside the AI in really meaningful ways. Of course. Like, it's very, it's very cool to see how teachers are, um, so interested in, um, adapting their instructions, instructional practices and their pedagogy to meet the moment, um, and bringing AI in as much as they can into the conversation, um, and in some cases bringing that technology in as well.

Speaker C: Well, I mean, on that note, I mean, we're a couple months away from it now, but we did recently have the Upper Bound conference. And uh, uh, AI literacy was a huge part of that and you were kind of managing the, the track there. So I was just wondering, what did you find from that conference? A lot of people coming in talking about AI literacy. Like, what excited you? What kind of conversations were you hearing about?

Speaker A: It was so exciting across the board, like, the teachers. I was honestly surprised at the amount of teachers that opted to be there. Um, like went to their principals, went to their school boards and was like, this is really important for me to go to and I want to learn with these people that are putting on this conference, this organization that that's like world renowned in artificial intelligence. Right. And so this is, that was really surprising to me because when I was building out the track, I'm like, oh, maybe we have too many like k to 12 related pieces and there's not gonna be enough K to 12 people there, um, to actually take that in. But that wasn't the case at all. In fact, I talked to many people who were not in education that were like, this was an amazing track just for me to understand the goings on, the happenings, um, in our school system, um, and in our post secondaries. Right. A big part of that track was also thinking about AI literacy and in the post secondary space as well.

Speaker C: Okay. So, yeah, that seems to show like a real enthusiasm for teachers on wanting to know more and get guidance and see how others are using it.

Speaker A: Uh, yes, there's, there's a lot of that. Not like education isn't collaborative in nature, but I think with AI, we're seeing a lot more of a wanting for that collaboration across school authorities, across disciplines and grade levels. The amount of, you know, K to 12 schools or K to 12 leaders that have come to me and been like, can we work with some post secondaries? Can we have conversations with post secondaries to ensure that vertical alignment of those competencies as students leave our K to 12 system and move into either the workforce or into higher education, which I think kind of reopens, uh, a long standing conversation that's, that's been in place.

Speaker B: So after Upper Bound and all of that excitement, what is exciting you about AI in the classroom?

Speaker A: Yeah, what's really exciting me is the opportunity to rethink M teaching and learning.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I think with this technology it really puts the impetus on us as educators to rethink what's going on in our schools and our classrooms. And I think it also will lead to really important curriculum, uh, development and change to ensure that our students are equipped with the, the skills that they're going to need as they, as they move forward through their educational journeys.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting to think about what the skills will be going forward. Like, I think you touched on some of the ones that will be evergreen, but I think also some other ones are, you know, the ones that ChatGPT can do. It's sort of questionable now, like, what, which parts of that do we need and.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker C: Any advice for, you know, students or teachers as we kind of move into this next phase?

Speaker A: I think, think it's. I, I think it's really good to stay curious, um, in this, this space I would, you know, refrain from, if I was a teacher in the classroom. You know, refrain from trying, like, listening to all the media hype around like, brain rot and some of these, like, viral studies that in a lot of ways are needed and timely. I'm specifically thinking about like, the mit, I believe was the MIT study that recently went viral. Yeah. And like cognitive debt, I think, is how they structured it, um, which I think is an important study that needed to happen. But you also need to think about, like, there's a lot of nuance there in terms of how the study was set up and like, the baseline assessments that, you know, weren't done, um, and what that Study really told me is that it. It's not whether. It's not a question of whether we're going to use this technology. It's like the how and the when. And so that's really what I would encourage teachers to think about. Let's get out of the space of are we going to use it and think about how are we going to use it in meaningful ways to support student learning?

Speaker C: All right, well, I think that's about all we had.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So, uh, thanks for joining us. It's been a pretty packed couple of years. Yes. And I get the feeling that, uh, the next couple are going to be about the same. So we'll have to have you on again and do another update.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Everything that's been going on.

Speaker A: Thanks so much.

Speaker C: It was really great to talk to Jill again. I was really interested in what she was talking about. Using AI as a thought partner and not just as a tool. I think that's a really great approach to take to it.

Speaker B: Right. And a way to use AI that doesn't make you dumber.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: AI that makes you smarter. I also really liked how she talked about how teachers, uh, attitudes have changed towards AI. The ways they're using them have changed, but also the way that they think about it has changed. And I mean that makes sense because it's been a very busy year in AI.

Speaker C: Yeah. Kind of evolved. It's definitely different questions that we're asking than we were asking back then.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: All right, well, thanks for joining us again for another episode. If you would like to stay up on what, what we are doing here on Approximate Direct, the best way to do that is to subscribe. You can find us on Apple podcast, you can find us on Spotify, and we do have a video of Every episode on YouTube as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. So if you want to see our smiling faces, YouTube's the place to be. And I'll see you there in the comments.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, drop us a comment. Tell us what you think of the episode. We'd love to hear from you. And also while you're there, maybe you could give a like, I mean, you know, it's up to you. Balls in your court.

Speaker C: Always helpful. Always helpful.

Speaker B: So with that, I'm Alana Fish.

Speaker C: I'm Scott Lilwall.

Speaker B: And this has been approximately correct.