89: How to become a Rockstar Data Evangelist w/ Santosh Kanthety

Speaker A: Welcome to the analytics on Fire podcast. The only show that interviews real customers and delivers master classes to help motivate and inspire you along your analytics journey. And now your host, a Caribbean lady who's overly passionate about business intelligence, data viz and data storytelling. And co founder of BI Brains, Mikko Yuk.

Speaker B: Hey. Hey everybody. Welcome to October. This is Mikayot. Guys, I'm so excited to have you guys on this journey. We are almost at a hundred episodes. You know what they say in the podcast world, you are not a real podcaster until you get episode 100. So for all of you guys who are listening that are new, welcome to the AOF party and family.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: You're officially an AOFer. And if you have been on this journey, I love you guys. Ma. Okay, so with that said, uh, as you guys know, I have a lot of special episodes coming up. This one is no exception. Today we are going to discuss how to become a rockstar data evangelist in your company with none other than the amazing Santosh Kentetti. At, ah, the time of the recording, he was the IT Technology manager for Next Ever Resources, but now he is the head of data and analytics at Everbright, which is a subsidiary of Nextera Energy. If you haven't heard of them, they are literally bigger than Exxon. Okay? So I'm excited because, you know, Santosh is amazing. And when I was invited to keynote not once but twice, I was blown away by the ATT of their events. Okay. During a pandemic for my keynote, they had 700 employees attend. And then I was able to go there post pandemic a few weeks ago live, and the room was packed again. These guys have an insane community. And so naturally, as you guys know, EOF is all about you guys learning from these real world experiences.

Speaker C: That's why I started it, right?

Speaker B: I wanted to bring you guys into these conversations. So my topic today around how to become a rock star data evangelist in your company is going to be focused on a few things. So you guys are going to learn, number one, the three things to consider before becoming a data evangelist. Now for clarification, guys, a lot of you know that I'm currently the data evangelist account. This episode is not focused on external social media. It's how to become a data evangelist in your company. Okay. Which is something that Santosh is doing amazingly. So the first thing you guys are going to learn is three things you need to consider before becoming a data evangelist. He then is going to give you guys step by step how to get started in this journey in Your company. Okay. And again, coming from someone who's a living example, I felt like his practical steps were so awesome and anyone can actually tackle it. He then teaches you the three top functions of the community to the company. Okay. Which is important because I think a lot of people don't understand how to sell, right? The community, how to get support. And so he really goes over the three core selling points of the community and how you want, how to get executive support on board. And then he goes over one of the biggest challenges when it comes to having a community and how to overcome it. Hint, hint. Being tool focused. And keep in mind, obviously, NEXT Era is a huge, ginormous company. Okay. And they have the tools that they like, which you guys will learn in here. A tool that many of you use. But Santosh had to understand, and we share with you, how to not be biased to our tools, but still make sure you're helping to evangelize your tool. Very delicate topic. So you guys are definitely in for a ride here, guys. So Santosh is amazing. I've had the opportunity to meet him both as a client and as a friend. We sat down and had some good Caribbean dinner in Juno Beach. He's amazing. Had a great time with the team. He is the real deal. So you guys are going to love this. Definitely connect to him. And then I want to say, before we get into the episode, I haven't seen much reviews from you guys, so I asked you guys if you're listening and tuning in because we're back now, to definitely give some feedback on the podcast. So if you could take a minute and number one, share this podcast with someone and or leave a review, I would really appreciate that. To those of you who have written me and wanted to find out why I had stepped away, as I said to you guys, probably later on the year, I'll be a bit more comfortable to share it. It does have to do in my family. I had a very challenging time this beginning of the year, which is why I stepped away. And so thanks you guys who reach out to me. And later on as we get into the year, I'll be able to share that some of my lessons learned for life. I'm just grateful for life. And yeah, you guys are super awesome. So I'm in the middle of high holidays. Today's one of the days I'm back in. But I had to get this episode out because I know a lot of you are going into next year thinking, okay, I want to take this to the next or there's still an opportunity before the end of the year to

Speaker C: do it, guys, right?

Speaker B: Like we have October, November, December. That's a lifetime as we learn through the pandemic. So get moving. Enjoy this episode, share with your friends, show us some love, and let's get into it.

Speaker C: You know, as I told you, eof, I don't know anyone more qualified to talk about this topic. I think the fire that Santosh has and the way he went about building out, you know, the Data Visualization Committee. Is it the committee. What do you call, organize? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker D: Oh, it's an internal data visualization community. And again, I think I can't take all the credit for that. I think, of course my predecessors in the company who are thought leaders and uh, who brought this community together, and I am now carrying on, um, the bait on. And uh, it's amazing what we have done and accomplished. And I think we were able to invite some really good, uh, industry guest speakers. Right. Miko, I think we had the privilege to have you and come on speak with our community here and inspire them. And I think the feedback that we got from that engagement was tremendous. Right. So I'm pretty sure it's inspired others to push the boundaries and do more than reports that we do with data here. Right.

Speaker C: Well, what blew my mind, Santosh, uh, was the response and attendance that we had. I mean, the engagement was off the hinges and how many attendees that we have on our Macs. There's a lot of attention.

Speaker D: Yeah, we had about 700 people.

Speaker C: Yeah. Only in the company. Right. And so, and just so we're clear to everybody, this is not like some random like company keynote. This is like a data event. Am I correct that you open up to the entire company, not just the community?

Speaker D: Right, that's exactly right.

Speaker C: Amazing. Okay, so let's talk first so people can understand a little bit about not just what a data evangelist is, but to be honest with you, I want them to understand, like Next Era Energy is not a small company. Like when we started talking, you guys had just surpassed the size of Exxon. Am I correct? In revenue?

Speaker D: Oh, yeah, I think we're, we're bigger than, um, Exxon. I think we're a 200 plus billion dollar company. Uh, we're based out of Junip Beach, Florida. And uh, we're really big in the renewable space as well. So that's where we're always hiring and looking for good talent. So look us up and love to have you on the team.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, no, you have sunshine. Be careful. You Might get a lot of you guys see why we love aof. We got leaders here. Recruiting. Um, okay, but no, working with Santosh team has been fantastic. I can tell you from personal experience. Okay, but Santa, serious. The renewable energy and energy space, right. As a whole is a fairly conservative space. You agree with that?

Speaker D: That's true.

Speaker C: Right. So where did this whole, you know, data visualization committee and community even come in? Like first of all, start telewif. What is a, uh, data evangelist and how did this come about in a company that size?

Speaker D: Sure. So if you Google the official definition of a, uh, data evangelist. Actually there is none.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker D: But you'll find a, uh, definition for a technology evangelist on Wikipedia. A technology evangelist is a person who builds critical, massive support for a given technology and then establishes it as a technical standard. Right. So if you apply the same definition and replace that with data, I would describe a data evangelist as someone who builds a critical mass of support for using data in decision making and then establishes it as a culture. And for us in the company, in our company, I think it's pretty much baked into our DNA. We're a big Six Sigma company and we always use data for our gut checking and decision making process. So uh, that's a natural progression where people were doing it on PowerPoints or in Excel or the BI tools that we have in different business units and areas. So it was just a matter of bringing them all together and trying to share best practices and learn from each other and get better at that in the presentation of it. Right.

Speaker C: Okay, so you're saying that, you know, but m. I guess again not saying that energy companies do not have data visualization and bi, but I still feel it's a fairly, not behind conservative energy, I mean conservative industry because I've done a lot as you know, in this space. Okay, so you mentioned that, you know, this community kind of started beforehand and then you kind of came in and you are helping it to go forward and doing an awesome job. And how did you. Why, you know you're an IT manager. Why?

Speaker D: I started my career as a report writer in Cognos. Right. So when I was building the dashboards, it was understanding the business side of things and translating that into a, ah, visual experience for my end users to consume that data and bake it into, take the insights from IT and bake it into their operations to optimize something or get better at an outcome that they're looking for. Right. So it's a natural progression for me coming from IT side and being able to look at from a business perspective and gel into that communities. And that's where I think I came in from a tech background. But still I think I'm very closely related to the preparation of the data and presentation of that data, that I can speak both languages.

Speaker C: Okay. And so in that role that you had, you said a community was there. What triggered your decision to join the community and then to lead the community?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think it's. I got to take you back on a personal story of mine. Right. So to tell why, um, so I play cricket. Uh, coming from India, it's a big sport. So for those, yeah, I think, you know, Caribbean too.

Speaker C: Hey, West Indies in the house.

Speaker D: We have a lot of teams that here from a Caribbean population here in South Florida, and they play regular cricket. So part of my, uh, experience playing cricket was also running a cricket, uh, team here when I got to Florida. So I had the privilege of building, uh, a cricket team and running a cricket team. So in the beginning I did not know what I was getting myself into. Right. So for those who don't watch or know cricket as a sport, it's a team game and it's made up of 11 players on each side. And of course there are two teams involved and everybody's trying to win and uh, each team gets to bat and bowl. And uh, as we started playing each season, it quickly became evident that we all wanted to win. Right. So nobody wanted to drive for two hours and be on the losing side. So for me as a captain, I think more than reading the game and setting us up for a win, it was identifying what each other, uh, each of my team players are bringing to the table as a skill and setting them up to add value and change the outcome for a win. So that even meant that I had to give up my place to battle bowl. And after spending two hours of driving time. Right. So again, I think, uh, taking that leadership experience, I think I look back and see that as a great experience and a game changer and how I interact with my teams at work and how I motivate people around that common goal or purpose to get something accomplished. So again, I think from that coming off from field and one day, I think it was, uh, I was still an individual contributor at that time and I always had this passion to build really good visualizations and presentations. So part of that journey was I wanted to learn new tools like cognos was the thing back then. And then I think Bobji was coming along and then there was power. BI was just starting. Tableau was there Right. So Tableau kind of figured out its niche in that space, but it's still fresh. So I wanted to learn those tools and stay upfront and put and bring that into the company and say, okay, how can we leverage these tools to get better at it? And I made a lot of connections. And that was the aha moment for me is I still remember back in the day where I thought like, okay, I gotta be. I was doing a Cognos report and I was like, okay, there's gotta be a better way to visualize it. There's gotta be better tools available, there gotta be better methodologies. And on that day, again, I think I still remember looking up, hey, what are the tools available in the market? And I stumbled upon Gartner's quadrant to say, okay, what is a data visualization practice? What are the tools available in that niche area? And at that time, I think Tableau stood out. Right. Nothing else was, uh.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: So it was a natural progression that moment. I think it triggered me to stay in the forefront of learning these tools and leveraging these tools and bringing them into the company and figuring out like, what fits our needs. And also from a cost effective manner of we can't bring in 10 tools to do the same job. Right. So that's also not a good way of introducing tools into corporations. So it's figuring out what tool fits our needs and how can we pilot something, how can we try something and learn it and be good at it and just, um, that was the natural progression. I think that was the aha moment where I was able to bring that in.

Speaker C: No, I appreciate that. And it's super cool that you were able to kind of bring, you know, two hour drive to Cricket. That's a lot, right? You get there, you want to win because it's a two hour drive back home. And it's a lot worse if you're driving back home and you lost.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker C: You know, so I absolutely love that story. Now. You know, the thing is this, Santosh. We have a lot of people in AOF that are in organizations at different maturity levels. Right. I don't know what the maturity level of next Ever Energy is, but I do know that we have a lot of people who are thinking about, hey, you know what, next year, you know, I want to be an evangelist. If you were to speak to that person, what are some recommendations and how one should actually get started?

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. I think I would, uh, refer this back to kind of like a three things that you need to consider right before you get started. As a data evangelist or you want to bring in this culture of data evangelism into your own company. Right. First is assessing your maturity of the organization and leveraging data for operational insights. And of course the quality of data and ease of access matters a lot. So slowly build the skill and bring awareness to fix all the data quality gaps or issues you have in your foundational systems. And that's going to be the stepping stone to accomplish anything moving forward. And again, you don't have to do this alone. Right? So build a community of practice and attract like minded individuals that can help you put some stats around the uh, gaps that you have and make a case for it. And second, just be curious, right? So just be curious and get comfortable getting your hands dirty. So the best thing that I can, I look at my career and say I still do it no matter where I am in my career. As an individual contributor, as a leader. I look at ways of learning new tools, the fundamentals of, um, understanding the metadata and the design principles of a snowflake or star schema. They haven't changed much, but the tools have fundamentally shifted a lot. So it's being curious and being hungry and learning some new tools, uh, can go a long way and you can get started. You don't have to get fancy in learning different tools. It can be as simple as getting started with Excel to pivot some data and then embedding it into a PowerPoint presentation to support your pitch. Right. So that's number two, be curious. And number three again, I think I recently came across an article that had a really good tagline. It said content is king. Right. In this modern day and age, what will set you apart from others is if you're able to create content. So in this context of being a data evangelist, it can be as simple as turning data into a recommendation or an insight for a business outcome, or preparing a dashboard or a report. So I can only say from this experience that the future is bright for those who are able to create content.

Speaker C: I agree. Now put some context around what you're currently doing. How big is your community internally?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think we have about 30 or 40 people that are core. I think, uh, every, we meet every month and uh, we do have regular participation from about 15 or 20 people depending on what's going on. So um, we did uh, we did come together and everybody had something to contribute. Now it's become more of a forum to share and learn from each other from different use cases within the company.

Speaker C: Okay. And so, but I know that what you guys do. So give EOF a little bit of context around the community. Like how often do you guys meet? I'm trying to have EOF kind of see what this looks like. How often do you meet? Like what comprises the community?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think we have, it's purely voluntary. So there is no uh, formal structure. We do have some support and sponsors within the company that we usually go to with ideas. Like when we wanted to bring you in, Miko, we had to formally go look for sponsorship and fundamentally I think uh, as a company where data is in our culture, so we thought it's a really good investment to bring you in. And we did the same thing with Steve Wexler before and with Coldness Bomber. So uh, we have the privilege of having them in house as well. So I'm pretty sure we're going to do more of these. But so that's kind of our structure. So where it's purely voluntary and we do meet once a month, uh, where people come together and uh, learn from each other. But when we want to do something bigger we definitely look at, hey, where are we in a maturity level? Hey, I think now everybody knows what are the kind of standards, uh, where everybody can look up the previous work like so what we have done fundamentally different when initially the team was put together was they came up with a simple chart chooser concept. Right. So it was a simple template but it told them, hey, what are the color schemes that you should be using that are centered? Right. The decision tree and also the color schemes. Right. So it can be the next approved colors. So um, most of our presentations look similar. There's some consistency in how we present and choose the charts that we are presenting to executives. So those were some of the foundational things that we contributed and now we keep adding to those as we meet every month.

Speaker C: Nice. Now a lot of companies call those because one of the things that I recommend and we produce a template is analytics design guide. So it sounds like one of the things your community produced was that. So that's a great way to engage the community. Now how often do you guys meet? You know, besides the big event that you do are the regular meetings and if so, what are some of the topics that happens in those meetings?

Speaker D: So we uh, we meet once a month. So topics range anywhere from, hey, I found out like right now I think we are using Power BI as a standard tool within the company. So it's uh, sharing some insights around how we got certain things to work for our unique needs that Microsoft hasn't already come out with or that we have figured out a way to push the boundaries and execute them. Like I'll give you a prime example is one of the things Microsoft, I think on the premium workspaces we can only refresh every half an hour. Right. So we figured out a way to push that boundary and say that I can incrementally refresh my data at a 15 minute interval level. So sharing that, how we crack that nut on that and how do you set up other data sets to be able to do that? So those are kind of the things we share. And also I think we brought in Amazon recently to share what Quicksights does and how does it. So it's good for us to learn. Not that we want to change the tools, but again it's good to see what's out there. Right. So how are they doing it? Right. Where are they going with it? And again, I think that way, I think tool becomes just a medium, but we always will have a standard. But I think that standard will change over the years depending on our needs and depending on the cost structures that are built into and everything else.

Speaker C: That's awesome. Okay, so you guys, so if I were to ask you what are the main like top three functions of the community, not just, you know, to the broader company and the outside users, what would those be?

Speaker D: So I think it's definitely pushing setting up some standards. Right. So we all. I love that there is some consistent. Yeah, there is consistency in how we present data and how we leverage data visualization to the maximum advantage in not just showing a table, but there is a better way of showing and tying it, making it presentable to executives. Right. So they, one thing they would love is clarity in the message. So that's definitely a big number one goal. I think I've personally benefited from it. And I look at this learning experience as every single time I prepare a deck, I try to bake in that principle. Right. Am I keeping it simple? Am I leveraging? Am I presenting the data in the best way possible and is the message clear enough? So that's uh, that consistency and that's definitely number one. And if I were to pick the other is the uh, for a company, I think we are a company of a size of 15,000 employees. So we are spread all across. So there's a lot of dashboarding, reporting data visualization or all of these facets are going on every single day in different business groups. So it's. For me, I think it brings a good awareness of how other people are tackling this problem, where are they in that maturity level? Right. Can they learn from others and improve or their maturity level or contribute to the uh, cause that we want to upskill everybody else. Right? Yes, that's number two. Yeah, that's number two. And the last one, I think I would say that has really set us up or what I see is the biggest advantage is again staying relevant and bringing you guys in. Right. So that's the biggest advantage what this forum has created for us is I think after I got involved, pretty much I think I was able to bring you in. And before me, uh, I had my predecessors who were successful in bringing in Steve Wexler and Cole. And that was uh, really, I learned a lot from those engagements. Even though I've been developing reports, I've been in this business for a long time. I've learned a lot from those engagements and I still, uh, refer to the notes from there when I'm preparing new dashboards or new pitches for executives and PowerPoint. So it's all relevant. Those would be my three.

Speaker C: So how. Well, okay, let me recap that quickly before I ask my next question. So the first one is creating standardization throughout the organization, which I don't think anybody listening will argue with. Right. So you guys did that via guides, via best practices, via uh, different learnings. You said the second one is, is making sure that you guys are kind of pushing and keeping the agenda four of mine. Correct? That was the second one.

Speaker D: That's correct.

Speaker C: Okay. And then the third one was staying relevant. So data is everywhere. You and I both know there's probably tons of analysts run around the 15,000 person company that people won't admit their analysts, you know, but if you look at the attendance of the open events, you can tell that people are uh, like, hey, I use data. Right. Let me check it out. Right. So I think staying relevant is really important. Important. So Santosh, what I really like about what you guys are doing at Next Ever Energy is that, you know, you guys are not working with data vis community of, you know, 500 people. It's 30 or 40 of you that are pushing us now. With that said, do you guys have executive support and how important is that?

Speaker D: No, that's very, that's a great question. So it's very important and we do have buy in from our leadership and we are able to openly take some of our recommendations and ask for sponsorship. Right. So that's where we did the same thing when uh, we wanted to bring you in. So we were, we are openly able to go and Say hey, this is what we want to do and this is why. And we are able to get that buy in from leadership. I think that I would say that's very important. So it's uh, anybody who wants to get started on this journey at your companies, I would say is finding your champions, find your sponsors. And that's going to take you a long way in making it not just uh, come together, show and tell. It's more than you can build a really good community where people will learn as well as grow.

Speaker C: Okay, now why don't we tell eof because this is obviously great and you guys are further along. How long has the database community been existence now even before you? How long?

Speaker D: Since probably uh, 2017 or 2018 I would say.

Speaker C: Right. So right at the peak of where all this tableau, all this different stuff started. Okay, so why don't you tell EOF about a time in building this or uh, during your engagement and leading this that things did not go as planned. Because I know when doing this, between people, politics, tools, things oftentimes don't go as planned. Right. Do you have time that you could share with aof? Because I really want them to know what to expect.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think it's um, the biggest challenge time and time that I experience is not having bias towards a tool choice. Right. So it's pretty hard for me. Right. Even for internally. Like right now we have Power BI as a standard and we do, our agenda gets filled up with stuff on Power bi.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: But again I think Power BI is just a tool. But there is now quicksights coming in. There's looker, there's all these different things that people and there's people uh, use in their personal lives. Right. So mhm. You can't just go buy these things. Right. So there is also the fundamental tool that everybody can use in the company, which is Excel. Are we using it to the best advantage? Right. So that's a big challenge that we see is uh, avoiding filling up the agenda with just one being as tool centric. Right. So we want to be tool agnostic and it's more of a practice rather than choosing the tool just becomes a medium.

Speaker C: So what is the issue with choosing a tool? Is it that you feel like it turns certain users off? Like I'm trying to understand what went wrong there.

Speaker D: That's exactly right. So when you make it okay, the tool it's just, hey, this feature is not available there. Do I have to switch learning curve. Right. So it pushes other people off. And I also, I think it shuts them off from learning and be accepting other tools. Right. So for me it's uh, I always like, I started my career with Bob J. And Cognos, and now I think I picked up MicroStrategy and along the way power bi tableau. So yeah, I mean, it'll change the end of it. Oh yes, it's gonna change. And a lot of people who've been in this or practitioners, I think they don't realize that you gotta have an open mind that you're not married to that tool, but you're married to the uh, practice of creating visualizations or creating surfacing insights to your customers, regardless of tool.

Speaker C: No, I think so. I have two things about that that I want to kind of talk about quickly, which is I agree with you that if you focus on tools, I always tell eof, you know, especially my longtime listeners know, I tell them that when you get into tools and you're arguing with users about features, it's a race to the bottom and you're probably going to win. Do you agree or disagree with that?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think I would agree.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, it, I mean it's a fast race and I've been, you know, back in the day when I started, I've been in those discussions and you know, unfortunately, because we're on the other side of the table, you know, users end up being right, you always lose. So I always tell people, don't race to the bottom. Stay away from there. However, Santosh, there is something to be said about the fact if you are doing this kind of guerrilla style and just starting out, do you think that one should maybe start up with a tool focus just to start to get some traction, or do you think it's too dangerous to even touch that topic lest you become only known as the fill in the blank tool.

Speaker D: Now I would say it depends on the maturity of your organization, right. The size of your organization and how many groups are involved. What is the standard there and what is the current landscape of tool choice? I think I would say like get a sense of that and then based on that you can pivot and say, okay, if everybody is in Pro for using Excel or Microsoft products, I think it becomes much easier a community of practice to establish versus having some people in the world of SAP, some people having in the world of Microsoft, right. So that becomes harder sell. So I would say take a sense, uh, or take a pulse on where you stand in that, uh, maturity curve. And based on that I think you should pick a strategy that fits for you.

Speaker C: Now let's talk about the membership. So in terms of the people who are part of the database community, is it just, you know, the data visualization developers in a company like what type of people are we talking about? How do you determine who joins and who doesn't, you know, and more importantly, who's not a good fit?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think we try to uh, include all people who are hands on. Right. I think this is. The people who benefit from these sessions in this community are people who are really practicing it. Right. So who are. It doesn't matter what your role is in the organization. Like even if you're a manager, director or M. An individual contributor, it doesn't matter if you have the passion of creating and leveraging data to create some visualizations either in PowerPoints or using a tool like Excel or any other tool, bi tool.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: It doesn't matter. So you will benefit from being part of the community. So we do include, I think, ah, we are. So uh, as we set up these sessions and we have these topics, other people get interested in these topics because it closely ties to what they're doing and they expand and the event gets forwarded to them. Right. So our group is always expanding. Doesn't mean they're active, but we always include them going forward in the future sessions.

Speaker C: Nice. Yep. So a, uh, 10 if you can. Okay. And who's not a good fit?

Speaker D: Yeah, I would say, I think if you're really not hands on with any of these and you're not going to use them, somebody else is going to prepare these for you. I don't think this community is going to be much use or at least on a monthly basis. Like I think one thing I think we haven't done or I would recommend is putting to work putting a structure on how you're communicating with your executive sponsors and, and leadership on, um, the accomplishments or your outcome that you want to drive for any given year. I think I would say I would bring in people into that forum who are not hands on and give an update of um, everything that's going on in the community.

Speaker C: Well, that leads me to my next question. You know, for more mature organizations. And I get asked this question all the time when we talk about communities. What are some of the KPIs, WIGs or OKRs that are used to measure the success of your community? So when you talk to those executives. Right. What are some of those metrics that you use to say, hey, you know, we're growing, we are meeting the three objectives that we had?

Speaker D: Yeah, definitely. I Think the participation is, um, biggest thing. Again, unfortunately, it's going to be hard for us to prove how much people are adopting the practices that come out of it. I think we're influencing people to adopt them into their presentations, into their dashboards they're creating and stuff like that. But it's going to be hard to measure that. But I'm pretty sure if we try hard enough we can put a metric around it. But I think the biggest thing would be the participation. And also I think that's from the event that we were able to bring you in. Right. So that gave us a really good metric of how many people were interested and attended that session. Right. So that gives a, uh, really good metric. We have the same metrics for previous sessions where people signed up for and attended. So those are really good indicators that we can bank off of to say, okay, why should we invest more? Or what should we do more often? What should we do less? Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay, so participation is one. What other metrics?

Speaker D: Yeah, I would say, um, the mature. The adoption of like, let's say you're pushing a standard, uh, for any given tool, the adoption rate of that particular tool. Right. So I would say that that's another clear indication and I think we have seen it in our company where I think Power BI. I'll give you a story on Power BI. I think we started out probably in 2019, I think, and then I think our usage rate or people who got the cloud accounts and got on powerbi.com I think it skyrocketed. I think now, um, almost half our company is on it. So it's been a pretty good metric to bank off of to show the maturity level and how we are leveraging data visualization at the forefront of our business, uh, decision making.

Speaker C: You know, it's funny, Santosh, because one of the things that I always have felt, and you know, I've obviously lived this in vibrains, is that the, one of the quickest ways to not just get adoption but to sustain it, whether it's of practices, tools, concepts, is through a community. And it always baffles me how much money has spent, you know, this on tools and how little is spent on the people and the community. Like I have, you know, we remember, we talked about this. I, uh, I think when we first met, you know, you typically see these huge technology budgets and when you talk about community, you're like, how much? You know, when we're investing, it's like, listen, we're asking for.001% of a technology budget. To support this. And it sometimes is like pulling hair in organizations. And that fascinates me. Me. Do you have any thoughts on that and maybe how future data evangelists can get over that?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think it's.

Speaker C: And you're a technology leader, so you know you're dealing with budgets all the time, right?

Speaker D: Right, that's correct.

Speaker C: Why is that so hard?

Speaker D: I know it's a grassroots adoption, Right. So especially the change management is what scares people off is adopting some new tools. Again, I think it's. We try to throw money at a problem instead of addressing the change management aspect of it. And what do I mean by that? Right. So we can go decide today that I want to go buy a new flashy thing and it checks all the boxes. But if I'm not upskilling my practitioners to be able to get us there, I don't think it's going to, uh, be a success story. Right?

Speaker C: Correct.

Speaker D: So I think that one of the biggest things why I see, like, I've been. I come from a tool background, right. So I work with a lot of other tools. I see a big differentiator of, uh, why Power BI was successful, at least in my mind, in my opinion, is it takes after Excel. Right. So people are used to Excel. So it's an easy transition coming off of Excel, getting into this tool. So it became an easy progression and adoption that we didn't have to push big budgets on. Right. So. And again, I think that's my theory, but I think that's the way I would address it too, is the addressing the change management aspect of IT and upskilling people and then investing the money to get on the tool would be the right way, not the other way around.

Speaker C: Yeah. And so this is a completely separate question and I need to get the rest of your metrics out. Sorry, it's just that this was bothering me. Um, Aof, just bear with me here. I'm not all over the place, but my mind is racing right now. So talking about these budgets, you know, as a technology manager, in a perfect world, what percentage of this technology budget do you think should be allocated toward community and change management and people? Like, what is a healthy percentage?

Speaker D: Yeah, I would say at least 25 to 30% should be allocated for change management and upskilling, um, people in these tools. But I don't think we usually do that. I think that happens individual level.

Speaker C: I tell leaders 30%, they look at me like, we go, What? They're like 30%? You know, I'm like, yes, a. Ah, third this is what's gonna make sure the tool is sustained and adopted and, you know, loved and used. But it's, you know, like I said, sometimes you're scratching your teeth to get 1%. So, anyways, we have a ton of leaders on here, Santosh. Thank you for addressing that. Uh, But I hope AOF is listening. He said 25 to 30%, and I wholeheartedly agree. Okay, back to metrics. So. So the first one that we had, you said was participation. And then the second metric. I forgot what you said for psychometric. Sorry, I'm so thinking about is 20 and 30% right now. And visualizing it. Let's get to the third metric. So what is a third metric, if there is one that you guys measure for success?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think it's. I would say. I think those are the two primary metrics that we look at. I don't think we have given a thought of.

Speaker C: No, that's good enough, though. It gives us standpoint, though. So give me the second one again. Sorry, my mind is, like, stuck on this 1%. It's actually bothering me. What is the second metric that you guys used as participation? The second one is.

Speaker D: I think the first one was participation at individual level. Right. And then the second one is participation at the bigger scale.

Speaker C: Okay. That's why I couldn't remember it was. But both are participation. You guys are showing the numbers, right?

Speaker D: It's, um, mostly showing the numbers. And then. No, the other, um, one is. I think that probably we can tie a relationship to adoption of the tool. Right. That we're trying to set as a standard. Definitely has a correlation with everything we're doing here within the community, right?

Speaker C: Yep. So it justifies the investments. Okay. No, this is great. And I think it gives AOF a place to start. All right, so, Santosh, this was really helpful eof. I feel that you guys have a lot of motivation now to become the data evangelist. If you haven't already, get the community started in your company. As you could see from Santosh, it's not all about the size. It's about the quality. And he obviously is running a quality community that tends to attract the broader community, and they're excited about data. So thank you. Thank you so much, Santosh. All right. Okay. So, Santosh, let's wrap this up. But first, tell me, who inspires you?

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker D: Uh, that's a tricky question. But again, I think my standard answer for that would be, again, I get inspired by the people who I meet and interact with on a daily basis. Right. So there's something that everybody has to offer. And one thing I've learned through my passion for travel or photography is when I travel I meet others who come from different cultures, backgrounds and their approach in reacting to different problems that I would react to is completely different. Right. That blows my mind. And that's um.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: And of course my immediate family, I mean they teach me a lot about myself. Right. I did not know that I needed to work on and that's. I think those are the people I look for inspiration. But if I were to pick that one person that inspires me, I think I would say it's Satya Nadella. And again I think why primary reason is not because he's a CEO of Microsoft. Right. Because uh, he comes from the same city as I am back at home in India. And it's amazing to see his journey and so are several million others. Right. Who came from the same background as he and I. But it's amazing to see his career trajectory and where he is and what he has accomplished at Microsoft. And he's turned that company into a trillion dollar company. Right. It's quite remarkable and amazing what he has done. So definitely I love to see him talk uh, every given time I think last ignite I was looking at his keynote and just very passionate about um, what they're set out to do. It's pretty amazing what the company is doing and where he is at.

Speaker C: Yeah. And obviously great transformation from where they were. And I think his focus on Azure and the cloud and just his focus on the forward thinking has really transformed who Microsoft is and what they're thought of. So that's fantastic that he comes from your town. That's awesome. All right, so Santosh, if you could recommend one book or tool for eof, what would it be and why?

Speaker D: All right, I have a confession to make here. So I'm not so good at reading books.

Speaker C: That's okay.

Speaker D: It takes me a good three to four months to finish a book that an average reader finishes in about a few weeks. But my mode of learning is where, uh, YouTube or reading blogs other people have curated and that's on demand. I would highly recommend this one channel that I always go back to for inspiration or from Good Thought Leadership is by Ivan, uh, Carmichael where he brings in a lot of industry leaders on inspirational aspects as well as knowledge sharing aspects and he discusses what sets successful people apart from others. So that's, it's a really good. I think he's got about 3 or 4 million subscribers but it's a big Channel, but he's got really good content that's curated, that'll motivate anyone, and I'm pretty sure anyone will get value out of it. And the best part is I like to watch the interviews from successful people and learn from their mistakes and learn how they approach problems. Right.

Speaker C: So same.

Speaker D: It goes a long way in how you approach anything in your personal life.

Speaker C: Yep, I do the same thing. So I love reading. I've been doing, admittedly audiobooks as well, but I can't write. I'm not good at writing. I have a ton of typos. You got emails from me. You know how they look. It's not great. I can't. Yeah, you always want to write the email. It's just not. I used to apologize for the typos and say I was using my iPhone. I just don't do it anymore. I just. I'm like, okay, this is bad. They know I can do visualization, so, you know, there's obviously an issue there.

Speaker B: But.

Speaker C: No, that's awesome. I love that you kind of talk to about learning differently because, you know, there's a lot of pressure online and all these apps now that are, you know, you need to read books to talk about Warren Buffett reads, how many books, or Obama, you know, reads for 30 minutes a day. And I think that's great. But I think it's important to understand, too, that people learn differently and you don't always have to be sitting reading a book. There's just other ways to learn. So thank you for that. I think that's pretty duper awesome. And clearly you are amazingly smart. Okay, so how should AOF stay in touch with you? I know you have your LinkedIn, right? Do you want to share that with AOF? Like, what's the best way to keep in touch or connect?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think LinkedIn is, uh, a really good way. I'm there at least once a day or every other day. So definitely LinkedIn would be a good medium to stay in touch.

Speaker C: Okay, now, you mentioned something here when I said we need a giveaway for our audience. I always write that. AOF doesn't know that, but you said here, if you want to learn how to visualize your fitness data from Garmin or Strava, hit me up. Tell UWEF quickly about that before we wrap up here, because I thought that was too good to let it pass.

Speaker D: Oh, yeah. So that was a fun thing that I did. So that was my Christmas project a few years back. I think this. This falls back into that. Aha. Moment as well. Right. So. So it's one thing to think about data visualization to solve a business problem, but it's one thing to fit that into your personal life. So I was able to find a medium where I can get better at it and learn the basic principles by fitting a personal use case. So in my case again, I train, uh, I generate a lot of data through my Garmin from my runs and my time spent in the gym and everything else on the cycle. So I wanted to. Garmin gives you a really good interface to visualize that information on Garmin Connect. But, uh, what it lacks is really the interactivity of slicing and dicing that data. So I wanted to go a step beyond that. So I kind of set up my own solution where I bring data in from Garmin and Strava and then I visualize it in my own. I put it in my own database. And now I can track the exact mileage on my shoes and when I need to replace my shoe. All that stuff is all automated now and I'm able to visualize and interact with my data. So if anybody was crazy enough to go, want to do that on your own data, hit me up.

Speaker C: That's awesome. Um, no, that is awesome. So you guys heard it and you're doing Ironman too, so it's pretty cool. Now, quick question. Are people able to. Is like a community, like the peloton, where they can connect to your data or is it just you help them to see their data better?

Speaker D: No, I think I haven't commercialized it. I've thought about it. No, I haven't commercialized it. That would be a, uh, good next step, I guess. But now I think this would be on your own personal data. I can help. Uh, you share my experience on how I went about solutioning it and, uh, the tools I chose. So that would be something that I could offer you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And you share that with me as well. I think when we first met and I thought that that was super duper cool because I feel like you're eating your own dog food. So I really love that. So thank you. Thank you so much. Okay. Well, Santosh, I first again want to commend you for coming on aof, talking about the dataviz community, that you lead a next era energy. Like I said, there's so many phenomenal things happening. I think being a data evangelist is so needed. You know, I think there's not enough data evangelists if you want me to be. I think we have analysts, we have scientists, we have. But I want to see more data evangelists and I know that this session will inspire others. So I just want to say on behalf of aof, thank you. Thank you so much for being an inspiration and coming on and sharing your story.

Speaker D: No, thank you for having me and. Absolutely right. So again, I think, as I always say, this is the best time to be in tech and data is all around us and I think we're just getting started. So it's a great time to be in tech and, uh, the data space.

Speaker C: Yeah, awesome. Okay. And so aof, you guys know what I tell you? You guys are the results of the five people you spend the most time with. And you guys have now spent almost an hour with myself and Mr. Santosh Kentatti. So you guys have no excuse note. He is. He has told you how it works. He's told you how to do it, he has told you what could go wrong. There is no excuse. Aof, get off your butt. You've been wanting to evangelize. You want to be that person. You don't need a big title. You don't need to change how you look. You just need the energy, passion, enthusiasm, which is infectious. Eof. Okay, you guys know I love you. I hope you guys enjoy this reach out to Santosh. So I think I didn't say it before. Obviously his information will be in the show notes. He also, by the way, has a Facebook and his blog that he will share. So I'm going to give you his link, LinkedIn and the blog. So LinkedIn is LinkedIn.com Santosh Kantetti. So S a n t o S H k as in kite a n t h e t y Because I know some people are like on the go and they're like, miko, just give it to me. Okay, so that's, that's to connect on LinkedIn. And then his blog is my by experience. So it's my b y e experience blogspot.com so you guys connect to Santosh directly. He's amazing. Hopefully you hear this from here. Super competitive, super driven, and Santosh has been a pleasure. Aof. So guys, we love you.

Speaker E: You've reached the end of another epic episode of analytics on Fire. We'd love to hear your questions and feedback. Let us know by visiting analyticsonfire.com to subscribe to get the latest shows first. Then be sure to visit us on itunes and leave a.